Wally W. writes:
On Wed, 21 May 2014 15:11:04 GMT, Scott Lurndal wrote:

Wally W. writes:
On Tue, 20 May 2014 20:38:30 -0400, H wrote:

badgolferman wrote:

My water heater is leaking from the bottom today.
I'd like to know what to expect or any diagnosis you might have.

Capacity 40.0 gal
Natural Gas

I was going to say that the plumber will charge you $1000 installed, but
you could simply drive to Home Despot and pick up a new one and install
it yourself for $300.

A replacement Rheem (appropriately named) unit will cost $897
installed tomorrow.

So I was $100 off.

They're not that heavy you know.

And easy as pie to put in.

I called a few other places and the cost was about the same but
it would take at least a week.

Real men know how to install replacement gas water heaters.

That's what insurance companies like to hear after a house burns down.

A common internet meme ...


They just walk away ... with their check book as full as when they
arrived ... while the code official writes a citation for installing
the unit without a permit.

... that has never happened in real life.

An example from last month:

http://woodtv.com/2014/03/16/house-fire-after-water-heater-explodes/
The fire broke out just after 10 p.m. Saturday

Where in the referenced article does it say:

1) that the homeowner did the replacement,
or
2) that the insurance company didn't cover the loss?

when people do really stupid stuff homeowners companies typically still pay but the new policy excludes the stupid move.

like a fellow who in attempting to cut down a tree brought down a 15,000 volt line, which dropped across a 120 volt line and took out over $15,000 dollars worth of tvs, vcrs and other electronic appliances....

homeowners paid the entire claim but added a complete exclusion for all tree trimming or tree work in the future.

the fellows wife figured everyone along that line was collecting broke appliances to get them replaced.

On Fri, 23 May 2014 09:15:47 -0700, "Bob F"
wrote:

Scott Lurndal wrote:
HomeGuy Home@Guy.com writes:
bob haller wrote:

around here lots of people are using the flexible brite yellow gas
lines originally designed for gas dryers and gas stoves...

Yea - that's something I didn't think of.

Your water heater doesn't move around, shake or vibrate like a
clothes dryer does. The use of a short flexible link to connect a
gas water heater is a much safer application of those flex lines
than any other gas-using consumer device.

Unless you live in earthquake country (most of the continental US can
be subject to earthquakes, albeit rarely).

I would think that a flexible line would be safer in earthquakes.

A seismic valve would be a lot safer -but no help at all if the lines
outside fracture.

On 5/21/2014 10:11 AM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
Wally W. writes:
On Tue, 20 May 2014 20:38:30 -0400, H wrote:

badgolferman wrote:

My water heater is leaking from the bottom today.
I'd like to know what to expect or any diagnosis you might have.

Capacity 40.0 gal
Natural Gas

I was going to say that the plumber will charge you $1000 installed, but
you could simply drive to Home Despot and pick up a new one and install
it yourself for $300.

A replacement Rheem (appropriately named) unit will cost $897
installed tomorrow.

So I was $100 off.

They're not that heavy you know.

And easy as pie to put in.

I called a few other places and the cost was about the same but
it would take at least a week.

Real men know how to install replacement gas water heaters.

That's what insurance companies like to hear after a house burns down.

A common internet meme ...


They just walk away ... with their check book as full as when they
arrived ... while the code official writes a citation for installing
the unit without a permit.

... that has never happened in real life.

Actually it is a common occurrence in state like New York and
California. If you insist on doing your own work...Go get a permit and
have it inspected to cover your ass and to keep your family healthy.
Use a little common sense for crists sake!

On 5/26/2014 2:05 PM, PaxPerPoten wrote:
On 5/21/2014 10:11 AM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
Wally W. writes:
On Tue, 20 May 2014 20:38:30 -0400, H wrote:

badgolferman wrote:

My water heater is leaking from the bottom today.
I'd like to know what to expect or any diagnosis you might have.

Capacity 40.0 gal
Natural Gas

I was going to say that the plumber will charge you $1000 installed,
but
you could simply drive to Home Despot and pick up a new one and install
it yourself for $300.

A replacement Rheem (appropriately named) unit will cost $897
installed tomorrow.

So I was $100 off.

They're not that heavy you know.

And easy as pie to put in.

I called a few other places and the cost was about the same but
it would take at least a week.

Real men know how to install replacement gas water heaters.

That's what insurance companies like to hear after a house burns down.

A common internet meme ...


They just walk away ... with their check book as full as when they
arrived ... while the code official writes a citation for installing
the unit without a permit.

... that has never happened in real life.

Actually it is a common occurrence in state like New York and
California. If you insist on doing your own work...Go get a permit and
have it inspected to cover your ass and to keep your family healthy.
Use a little common sense for crists sake!



It is interesting reading the Internet. "They are not that heavy."
"And easy as pie to put in." "DIY for $300." Is that the ten gallon
size? "My water heater is leaking, what do I do?"

Changing a water heater is a big deal. A 40 gallon heater with soaked
insulation is a moose even drained. Old pipes that were sweated on
instead of using nuts can be a bitch, and more than one house has burned
down with some nimrod sweating new ones on or off. Where can I get a
$300 40 gal water heater? My last one was $600, a propane model. And I
paid the pro from the gas company $350 to install it. Beautiful work.
Hoses with nuts on them. Earthquake straps. He even cut a 24" square
piece of cabinet grade plywood for it to sit on "because he didn't like
the looks of the floor under it as being weak." He stained and
varnished the wood.

Changing a water heater ain't rocket surgery, but there is quite a bit
to it, many things that can go wrong, and they can blow from the first
floor foundation through the roof on the second story. They did it on
Mythbusters. Anything that can kill you deserves respect.

Steve

PaxPerPoten writes:
On 5/21/2014 10:11 AM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
Wally W. writes:

That's what insurance companies like to hear after a house burns down.

A common internet meme ...


They just walk away ... with their check book as full as when they
arrived ... while the code official writes a citation for installing
the unit without a permit.

... that has never happened in real life.

Actually it is a common occurrence in state like New York and

You'll need to provide citations. It doesn't happen in California,
I can't speak for NY.

On Tuesday, May 27, 2014 11:31:17 AM UTC-4, Scott Lurndal wrote:
PaxPerPoten writes:

On 5/21/2014 10:11 AM, Scott Lurndal wrote:

Wally W. writes:



That's what insurance companies like to hear after a house burns down.



A common internet meme ...





They just walk away ... with their check book as full as when they

arrived ... while the code official writes a citation for installing

the unit without a permit.



... that has never happened in real life.



Actually it is a common occurrence in state like New York and



You'll need to provide citations. It doesn't happen in California,

I can't speak for NY.

I was thinking of posting that reply the other day too. It's been
claimed here many times that insurance companies deny claims all the
time because a permit wasn't pulled, the homeowner did something wrong,
etc. But I have yet to see one case cited. Not saying it never happens.
There probably are some extreme examples where they have done it, but
I don't believe it's the general case.

trader_4 writes:
On Tuesday, May 27, 2014 11:31:17 AM UTC-4, Scott Lurndal wrote:
PaxPerPoten writes:

On 5/21/2014 10:11 AM, Scott Lurndal wrote:

Wally W. writes:



That's what insurance companies like to hear after a house burns down.



A common internet meme ...





They just walk away ... with their check book as full as when they

arrived ... while the code official writes a citation for installing

the unit without a permit.



... that has never happened in real life.



Actually it is a common occurrence in state like New York and



You'll need to provide citations. It doesn't happen in California,

I can't speak for NY.

I was thinking of posting that reply the other day too. It's been
claimed here many times that insurance companies deny claims all the
time because a permit wasn't pulled, the homeowner did something wrong,
etc. But I have yet to see one case cited. Not saying it never happens.
There probably are some extreme examples where they have done it, but
I don't believe it's the general case.

It can't be that difficult for folks to read their own policy, can it?

If the insurance company can prove fraud (i.e. the homeowner intentionally
burned his domicile to claim a loss), the insurance company will file a
civil suit (which will follow the criminal arson charges :-) to avoid payment
(justifiably, too).

On Tuesday, May 27, 2014 12:53:17 PM UTC-4, Scott Lurndal wrote:
trader_4 writes:

On Tuesday, May 27, 2014 11:31:17 AM UTC-4, Scott Lurndal wrote:

PaxPerPoten writes:



On 5/21/2014 10:11 AM, Scott Lurndal wrote:



Wally W. writes:







That's what insurance companies like to hear after a house burns down.







A common internet meme ...











They just walk away ... with their check book as full as when they



arrived ... while the code official writes a citation for installing



the unit without a permit.







... that has never happened in real life.







Actually it is a common occurrence in state like New York and







You'll need to provide citations. It doesn't happen in California,



I can't speak for NY.



I was thinking of posting that reply the other day too. It's been

claimed here many times that insurance companies deny claims all the

time because a permit wasn't pulled, the homeowner did something wrong,

etc. But I have yet to see one case cited. Not saying it never happens.

There probably are some extreme examples where they have done it, but

I don't believe it's the general case.



It can't be that difficult for folks to read their own policy, can it?



If the insurance company can prove fraud (i.e. the homeowner intentionally

burned his domicile to claim a loss), the insurance company will file a

civil suit (which will follow the criminal arson charges :-) to avoid payment

(justifiably, too).

I don't see why the insurance company would file a civil suit. They
can just deny the claim and if the policy holder doesn't like it, then the policy holder can sue the insurance company to try to force them to pay.

But the claim being made here is that they won't pay not for fraud,
but because the homeowner did some repair incorrectly, without a permit,
etc. Yet they clearly pay for all the other dumb things a homeowner
does, like smoking in bed and starting a fire. So, if it's so common
it would be nice to see some examples, which should be easy to find.

On Tue, 27 May 2014 16:53:17 GMT, (Scott Lurndal)
wrote:

trader_4 writes:
On Tuesday, May 27, 2014 11:31:17 AM UTC-4, Scott Lurndal wrote:
PaxPerPoten writes:

On 5/21/2014 10:11 AM, Scott Lurndal wrote:

Wally W. writes:



That's what insurance companies like to hear after a house burns down.



A common internet meme ...





They just walk away ... with their check book as full as when they

arrived ... while the code official writes a citation for installing

the unit without a permit.



... that has never happened in real life.



Actually it is a common occurrence in state like New York and



You'll need to provide citations. It doesn't happen in California,

I can't speak for NY.

I was thinking of posting that reply the other day too. It's been
claimed here many times that insurance companies deny claims all the
time because a permit wasn't pulled, the homeowner did something wrong,
etc. But I have yet to see one case cited. Not saying it never happens.
There probably are some extreme examples where they have done it, but
I don't believe it's the general case.

It can't be that difficult for folks to read their own policy, can it?

If the insurance company can prove fraud (i.e. the homeowner intentionally
burned his domicile to claim a loss), the insurance company will file a
civil suit (which will follow the criminal arson charges :-) to avoid payment
(justifiably, too).
But that is totally different from a well-meaning DIY accidentally
burning the house down while soldering his water heater pipes, or
something going wrong when he didn't have a permit or a plumbing
license.

On 5/27/2014 10:31 AM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
PaxPerPoten writes:
On 5/21/2014 10:11 AM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
Wally W. writes:

That's what insurance companies like to hear after a house burns down.

A common internet meme ...


They just walk away ... with their check book as full as when they
arrived ... while the code official writes a citation for installing
the unit without a permit.

... that has never happened in real life.

Actually it is a common occurrence in state like New York and

You'll need to provide citations. It doesn't happen in California,
I can't speak for NY.

And you sure cannot speak for California either!California will make you
tear out anything that is not built on a permit before it can be sold.
Also they will pull your occupancy permit, leaving you a vacant building.

On Thursday, May 29, 2014 3:52:43 PM UTC-4, PaxPerPoten wrote:
On 5/27/2014 10:31 AM, Scott Lurndal wrote:

PaxPerPoten writes:

On 5/21/2014 10:11 AM, Scott Lurndal wrote:

Wally W. writes:



That's what insurance companies like to hear after a house burns down.



A common internet meme ...





They just walk away ... with their check book as full as when they

arrived ... while the code official writes a citation for installing

the unit without a permit.



... that has never happened in real life.



Actually it is a common occurrence in state like New York and



You'll need to provide citations. It doesn't happen in California,

I can't speak for NY.



And you sure cannot speak for California either!California will make you

tear out anything that is not built on a permit before it can be sold.


Somehow I think that's an exaggeration too. Generally that which is built
compliant with code and can be inspected, they just make you go through the
permitting/inspecting process and maybe pay some penalty. For example,
if a permit is required for a fence, but the fence is otherwise compliant,
I seriously doubt AHJs in CA are going to make you tear it out and put in an identical one, which would be a huge waste and certainly dumb.

And if it what was done has some parts that can be corrected and then have
it pass, then you get a permit, make the corrections. You generally don't
tear it out. If however you've done something that is totally non-compliant,
can't be corrected, can't be inspected, etc, then I can see them making you
tear it out.

I also find it hard to believe that CA has some process whereby they try
to find everything that might not have been done with a permit, just because
the place is being sold. Sure, if there is something obvious, I can see
them finding that as part of the CO process, but in a day when the cops
don't even have time to catch
a lot of criminals, I find it hard to believe some inspector is going to
show up and try to match what's in a house to permits going back 50 years.

On Thursday, May 29, 2014 7:30:41 PM UTC-4, trader_4 wrote:
On Thursday, May 29, 2014 3:52:43 PM UTC-4, PaxPerPoten wrote:

On 5/27/2014 10:31 AM, Scott Lurndal wrote:



PaxPerPoten writes:



On 5/21/2014 10:11 AM, Scott Lurndal wrote:



Wally W. writes:







That's what insurance companies like to hear after a house burns down.







A common internet meme ...











They just walk away ... with their check book as full as when they



arrived ... while the code official writes a citation for installing



the unit without a permit.







... that has never happened in real life.







Actually it is a common occurrence in state like New York and







You'll need to provide citations. It doesn't happen in California,



I can't speak for NY.







And you sure cannot speak for California either!California will make you



tear out anything that is not built on a permit before it can be sold.





Somehow I think that's an exaggeration too. Generally that which is built

compliant with code and can be inspected, they just make you go through the

permitting/inspecting process and maybe pay some penalty. For example,

if a permit is required for a fence, but the fence is otherwise compliant,

I seriously doubt AHJs in CA are going to make you tear it out and put in an identical one, which would be a huge waste and certainly dumb.



And if it what was done has some parts that can be corrected and then have

it pass, then you get a permit, make the corrections. You generally don't

tear it out. If however you've done something that is totally non-compliant,

can't be corrected, can't be inspected, etc, then I can see them making you

tear it out.



I also find it hard to believe that CA has some process whereby they try

to find everything that might not have been done with a permit, just because

the place is being sold. Sure, if there is something obvious, I can see

them finding that as part of the CO process, but in a day when the cops

don't even have time to catch

a lot of criminals, I find it hard to believe some inspector is going to

show up and try to match what's in a house to permits going back 50 years..

The tv show flip or flop with tarek and that gorgeous christina have episodes where they buy property at auction. when a unpermitted space turns up they must remove the drywall from at least one side, inspect it, bring it up to code, get it inspected by the building inspector then replace the drwall. some unpermitted stuff thats real junk gets demolished but thats the exception not the rule.

I highly recommend the show, christiana is easy on the eyes, they make big bucks, and the show is educational....

bob haller posted for all of us...

And I know how to SNIP


On Thursday, May 29, 2014 7:30:41 PM UTC-4, trader_4 wrote:
On Thursday, May 29, 2014 3:52:43 PM UTC-4, PaxPerPoten wrote:

On 5/27/2014 10:31 AM, Scott Lurndal wrote:



PaxPerPoten writes:



On 5/21/2014 10:11 AM, Scott Lurndal wrote:



Wally W. writes:







That's what insurance companies like to hear after a house burns down.







A common internet meme ...











They just walk away ... with their check book as full as when they



arrived ... while the code official writes a citation for installing



the unit without a permit.







... that has never happened in real life.







Actually it is a common occurrence in state like New York and







What network? Usual time/day ?

--
Tekkie

flip or flop is on HGTV. I have TIVOs that record shows automatically and allow me to skip thru commercias. 15 minutes in a hour...... primetime.

Incidently tarek had a lump on his neck, a viewer saw it and sent a letter to the production company. It turned out he had thyroid cancer,, the viwer likely saved his life..... the viewerwho noticed it happened to be a cancer nurse. Tarek the picture of health and success needed a 4 hour surgery.

one never knows when there number may be up

On Tue, 20 May 2014 23:15:45 -0400, wrote:

On Tue, 20 May 2014 20:40:47 -0400, HomeGuy
Home@Guy.com wrote:

wrote:

Electric is about half the price of natural gas (up here anyway). So
about $600 for gas if you DIY.

Wrong.

You can get a natural-gas water heater at Home Despot (Canada) for about
$400 these days.
Mabee the little cheap one. I bought a 9 yr? warranty 40 gallon and
it was within a few dollars of $600 including tax. Bought it from Home
Despot because it's only about a mile away and I had to carry it home
on the rack behind my PT cruiser,

What kind of a rack do you have behind the cruiser? Did it come with
the car?

so I didn't want to haul it across
town from the wholealer (price within dollars but better brand
available)

On Sat, 31 May 2014 09:58:48 -0400, micky
wrote:

On Tue, 20 May 2014 23:15:45 -0400, wrote:

On Tue, 20 May 2014 20:40:47 -0400, HomeGuy
Home@Guy.com wrote:

wrote:

Electric is about half the price of natural gas (up here anyway). So
about $600 for gas if you DIY.

Wrong.

You can get a natural-gas water heater at Home Despot (Canada) for about
$400 these days.
Mabee the little cheap one. I bought a 9 yr? warranty 40 gallon and
it was within a few dollars of $600 including tax. Bought it from Home
Despot because it's only about a mile away and I had to carry it home
on the rack behind my PT cruiser,

What kind of a rack do you have behind the cruiser? Did it come with
the car?

so I didn't want to haul it across
town from the wholealer (price within dollars but better brand
available)
Don't have the cruiser any more, but it was a carry-all rack from
Princess Auto that fit the lass 2 trailer hitch receiver. 500 lb
capacity. Cost me $99 on sale - normally $149 IIRC Just like the old
luggage racks on the back of a Model A.