Abez znow!

Which, in Ukrainian means "So that you know" but really means "So that later on you have no recourse in claiming you didn't know."

I just got my April VISA bill in the mail today. They included $3.54 in interest charges because they said I didn't pay my March VISA bill on time. The "payment due date" on that March VISA bill was April 7th, and I paid that bill at my local financial institution on April 3rd.

It turns out that the Royal Bank considers the phrase "payment due date" to mean the date they have to recieve your payment by, not the date you have to pay by. In my case, I paid on April 3 but the Royal Bank didn't receive the money until April 9th, which was 2 days "late" by their definition of "payment due date".

Needless to say, nowhere on my VISA bill do they clarify what is meant by "payment due date", and so I presumed it meant the day I had to pay by.

But, the kicker is that if you pay two days late, you don't get charged interest on the outstanding balance for two days, you get charged interest at 19.99% for 23 days. That's because the Royal Bank allows a 3 week grace period after they send out the bills for you to pay by. The "payment due date" is the day after the end of that 3 week grace period. If you don't pay by the payment due date, they charge interest at 19.99% for the 3 week grace period as well. So, if you pay the day after the payment due date, you're paying 22 days worth of interest, not one day, or 22/365 times 19.99/100 times your outstanding balance.

I complained about this to someone at the Royal Bank today. I told them that if they don't clarify what they mean by "payment due date", people will presume it means they have to pay the bill by, not the date the Royal Bank has to recieve the payment by, and that's misleading and undoubtedly results in lots and lots and lots of interest charges, which if people are carrying a balance on their credit cards anyway, would probably go unnoticed.

It's only $3.54, but it's the principle here. If you say "payment due date", that normally means the date a person has to pay their bill by. If it takes additional time for the payment to make it's way to it's destination, that's something the recipient should take into account when setting their payment due date.

nestork wrote:
Abez znow!

Which, in Ukrainian means "So that you know" but really means "So that
later on you have no recourse in claiming you didn't know."

I just got my April VISA bill in the mail today. They included $3.54
in interest charges because they said I didn't pay my March VISA bill
on time. The "payment due date" on that March VISA bill was April
7th, and I paid that bill at my local financial institution on April
3rd.

It turns out that the Royal Bank considers the phrase "payment due
date" to mean the date they have to recieve your payment by, not the
date you have to pay by. In my case, I paid on April 3 but the Royal
Bank didn't receive the money until April 9th, which was 2 days
"late" by their definition of "payment due date".

Needless to say, nowhere on my VISA bill do they clarify what is meant
by "payment due date", and so I presumed it meant the day I had to pay
by.

But, the kicker is that if you pay two days late, you don't get
charged interest on the outstanding balance for two days, you get
charged interest at 19.99% for 23 days. That's because the Royal
Bank allows a 3 week grace period after they send out the bills for
you to pay by. The "payment due date" is the day after the end of
that 3 week grace period. If you don't pay by the payment due date,
they charge interest at 19.99% for the 3 week grace period as well.
So, if you pay the day after the payment due date, you're paying 22
days worth of interest, not one day, or 22/365 times 19.99/100 times
your outstanding balance.

I complained about this to someone at the Royal Bank today. I told
them that if they don't clarify what they mean by "payment due date",
people will presume it means they have to pay the bill by, not the
date the Royal Bank has to recieve the payment by, and that's
misleading and undoubtedly results in lots and lots and lots of
interest charges, which if people are carrying a balance on their
credit cards anyway, would probably go unnoticed.

It's only $3.54, but it's the principle here. If you say "payment due
date", that normally means the date a person has to pay their bill by.
If it takes additional time for the payment to make it's way to it's
destination, that's something the recipient should take into account
when setting their payment due date.

In my experience in business and in banking that payment due date is the day
your payment is received by the lender. Not when you paid through some
other institution but when the actual lender receives the cash.

I always factor in lag time from on-line bank payments, I don't understand
why a credit charge goes through the day you make it but a payment can take
days.

--
PV

Words from the Doctor
"Sorry PV but the Police will jail you if you dare approach me."
"If it gets any colder, your whole church congregation would be to
flame." "Calgary is viewed is a non-intellectual city from Edmotnon
Alberta Canada". "He is a slef deluded maniac.

nestork wrote:

Abez znow!
Which, in Ukrainian means "So that you know" but really means
"So that later on you have no recourse in claiming you didn't
know."

So I shouldn't call you a durock?

(Royal bank Visa, payment due date, etc).

I have an RBC Visa Avion Infinite card, and I usually pay it by bringing
the card to a TD bank and have the teller pay the card balance from my
TD account.

Many times I have done this ON THE DAY of the payment due date.

I've never been charged interest - the payment always seems to make it
to RBC on that day.

"nestork" wrote in message
...

Abez znow!

Which, in Ukrainian means "So that you know" but really means "So that
later on you have no recourse in claiming you didn't know."

Everybody already knows that. You're kidding, right?


I just got my April VISA bill in the mail today. They included $3.54 in
interest charges because they said I didn't pay my March VISA bill on
time. The "payment due date" on that March VISA bill was April 7th, and
I paid that bill at my local financial institution on April 3rd.

It turns out that the Royal Bank considers the phrase "payment due date"
to mean the date they have to recieve your payment by, not the date you
have to pay by. In my case, I paid on April 3 but the Royal Bank didn't
receive the money until April 9th, which was 2 days "late" by their
definition of "payment due date".

Needless to say, nowhere on my VISA bill do they clarify what is meant
by "payment due date", and so I presumed it meant the day I had to pay
by.

But, the kicker is that if you pay two days late, you don't get charged
interest on the outstanding balance for two days, you get charged
interest at 19.99% for 23 days. That's because the Royal Bank allows a
3 week grace period after they send out the bills for you to pay by.
The "payment due date" is the day after the end of that 3 week grace
period. If you don't pay by the payment due date, they charge interest
at 19.99% for the 3 week grace period as well. So, if you pay the day
after the payment due date, you're paying 22 days worth of interest, not
one day, or 22/365 times 19.99/100 times your outstanding balance.

I complained about this to someone at the Royal Bank today. I told them
that if they don't clarify what they mean by "payment due date", people
will presume it means they have to pay the bill by, not the date the
Royal Bank has to recieve the payment by, and that's misleading and
undoubtedly results in lots and lots and lots of interest charges, which
if people are carrying a balance on their credit cards anyway, would
probably go unnoticed.

It's only $3.54, but it's the principle here. If you say "payment due
date", that normally means the date a person has to pay their bill by.
If it takes additional time for the payment to make it's way to it's
destination, that's something the recipient should take into account
when setting their payment due date.




--
nestork

nestork wrote:

Abez znow!

Which, in Ukrainian means "So that you know" but really means "So that
later on you have no recourse in claiming you didn't know."

I just got my April VISA bill in the mail today. They included $3.54 in
interest charges because they said I didn't pay my March VISA bill on
time. The "payment due date" on that March VISA bill was April 7th, and
I paid that bill at my local financial institution on April 3rd.

It turns out that the Royal Bank considers the phrase "payment due date"
to mean the date they have to recieve your payment by, not the date you
have to pay by. In my case, I paid on April 3 but the Royal Bank didn't
receive the money until April 9th, which was 2 days "late" by their
definition of "payment due date".

Needless to say, nowhere on my VISA bill do they clarify what is meant
by "payment due date", and so I presumed it meant the day I had to pay
by.

But, the kicker is that if you pay two days late, you don't get charged
interest on the outstanding balance for two days, you get charged
interest at 19.99% for 23 days. That's because the Royal Bank allows a
3 week grace period after they send out the bills for you to pay by.
The "payment due date" is the day after the end of that 3 week grace
period. If you don't pay by the payment due date, they charge interest
at 19.99% for the 3 week grace period as well. So, if you pay the day
after the payment due date, you're paying 22 days worth of interest, not
one day, or 22/365 times 19.99/100 times your outstanding balance.

I complained about this to someone at the Royal Bank today. I told them
that if they don't clarify what they mean by "payment due date", people
will presume it means they have to pay the bill by, not the date the
Royal Bank has to recieve the payment by, and that's misleading and
undoubtedly results in lots and lots and lots of interest charges, which
if people are carrying a balance on their credit cards anyway, would
probably go unnoticed.

It's only $3.54, but it's the principle here. If you say "payment due
date", that normally means the date a person has to pay their bill by.
If it takes additional time for the payment to make it's way to it's
destination, that's something the recipient should take into account
when setting their payment due date.

PV wrote:
nestork wrote:
Abez znow!

Which, in Ukrainian means "So that you know" but really means "So that
later on you have no recourse in claiming you didn't know."

I just got my April VISA bill in the mail today. They included $3.54
in interest charges because they said I didn't pay my March VISA bill
on time. The "payment due date" on that March VISA bill was April
7th, and I paid that bill at my local financial institution on April
3rd.

It turns out that the Royal Bank considers the phrase "payment due
date" to mean the date they have to recieve your payment by, not the
date you have to pay by. In my case, I paid on April 3 but the Royal
Bank didn't receive the money until April 9th, which was 2 days
"late" by their definition of "payment due date".

Needless to say, nowhere on my VISA bill do they clarify what is meant
by "payment due date", and so I presumed it meant the day I had to pay
by.

But, the kicker is that if you pay two days late, you don't get
charged interest on the outstanding balance for two days, you get
charged interest at 19.99% for 23 days. That's because the Royal
Bank allows a 3 week grace period after they send out the bills for
you to pay by. The "payment due date" is the day after the end of
that 3 week grace period. If you don't pay by the payment due date,
they charge interest at 19.99% for the 3 week grace period as well.
So, if you pay the day after the payment due date, you're paying 22
days worth of interest, not one day, or 22/365 times 19.99/100 times
your outstanding balance.

I complained about this to someone at the Royal Bank today. I told
them that if they don't clarify what they mean by "payment due date",
people will presume it means they have to pay the bill by, not the
date the Royal Bank has to recieve the payment by, and that's
misleading and undoubtedly results in lots and lots and lots of
interest charges, which if people are carrying a balance on their
credit cards anyway, would probably go unnoticed.

It's only $3.54, but it's the principle here. If you say "payment due
date", that normally means the date a person has to pay their bill by.
If it takes additional time for the payment to make it's way to it's
destination, that's something the recipient should take into account
when setting their payment due date.

In my experience in business and in banking that payment due date is the day
your payment is received by the lender. Not when you paid through some
other institution but when the actual lender receives the cash.

I always factor in lag time from on-line bank payments, I don't understand
why a credit charge goes through the day you make it but a payment can take
days.

Hi,
Why not use on-line banking? x-action is almost instant. I had to pay
tax I owe on this year's tax return. I made the payment last night
on-line, the payment went thru already when I checked at lunch time today.

destination, that's something the recipient should take into account
when setting their payment due date.
nestork

Hi,
That is moot point. If you don't give enough lead time making the
payment, no matter how they set the due date, your payment will be
late most likely.

Tony Hwang wrote:
PV wrote:
nestork wrote:
Abez znow!

Which, in Ukrainian means "So that you know" but really means "So
that later on you have no recourse in claiming you didn't know."

I just got my April VISA bill in the mail today. They included
$3.54 in interest charges because they said I didn't pay my March
VISA bill on time. The "payment due date" on that March VISA bill
was April 7th, and I paid that bill at my local financial
institution on April 3rd.

It turns out that the Royal Bank considers the phrase "payment due
date" to mean the date they have to recieve your payment by, not the
date you have to pay by. In my case, I paid on April 3 but the
Royal Bank didn't receive the money until April 9th, which was 2
days "late" by their definition of "payment due date".

Needless to say, nowhere on my VISA bill do they clarify what is
meant by "payment due date", and so I presumed it meant the day I
had to pay by.

But, the kicker is that if you pay two days late, you don't get
charged interest on the outstanding balance for two days, you get
charged interest at 19.99% for 23 days. That's because the Royal
Bank allows a 3 week grace period after they send out the bills for
you to pay by. The "payment due date" is the day after the end of
that 3 week grace period. If you don't pay by the payment due date,
they charge interest at 19.99% for the 3 week grace period as well.
So, if you pay the day after the payment due date, you're paying 22
days worth of interest, not one day, or 22/365 times 19.99/100 times
your outstanding balance.

I complained about this to someone at the Royal Bank today. I told
them that if they don't clarify what they mean by "payment due
date", people will presume it means they have to pay the bill by,
not the date the Royal Bank has to recieve the payment by, and
that's misleading and undoubtedly results in lots and lots and lots
of interest charges, which if people are carrying a balance on their
credit cards anyway, would probably go unnoticed.

It's only $3.54, but it's the principle here. If you say "payment
due date", that normally means the date a person has to pay their
bill by. If it takes additional time for the payment to make it's
way to it's destination, that's something the recipient should take
into account when setting their payment due date.

In my experience in business and in banking that payment due date is
the day your payment is received by the lender. Not when you paid
through some other institution but when the actual lender receives
the cash. I always factor in lag time from on-line bank payments, I don't
understand why a credit charge goes through the day you make it but
a payment can take days.

Hi,
Why not use on-line banking? x-action is almost instant. I had to pay
tax I owe on this year's tax return. I made the payment last night
on-line, the payment went thru already when I checked at lunch time
today.

I do all my bankng online but there are still occurrences where payment to
another institution has taken a day or more to be processed. I leave leeway
just in case of thse instances

--
PV

Words from the Doctor
"Sorry PV but the Police will jail you if you dare approach me."
"If it gets any colder, your whole church congregation would be to
flame." "Calgary is viewed is a non-intellectual city from Edmotnon
Alberta Canada". "He is a slef deluded maniac.

On Fri, 25 Apr 2014 19:36:52 -0600, "PV" not4utono@ spamzone.org
wrote:

nestork wrote:

But, the kicker is that if you pay two days late, you don't get
charged interest on the outstanding balance for two days, you get
charged interest at 19.99% for 23 days. That's because the Royal
Bank allows a 3 week grace period after they send out the bills for
you to pay by. The "payment due date" is the day after the end of
that 3 week grace period. If you don't pay by the payment due date,
they charge interest at 19.99% for the 3 week grace period as well.
So, if you pay the day after the payment due date, you're paying 22
days worth of interest, not one day, or 22/365 times 19.99/100 times
your outstanding balance.

I complained about this to someone at the Royal Bank today. I told
them that if they don't clarify what they mean by "payment due date",
people will presume it means they have to pay the bill by, not the
date the Royal Bank has to recieve the payment by,

They already know this, and that's the big reason they don't clarify it.
They want you to pay late and incur a charge. At least that was true in
the US a few years ago. In the US, especially when self-addressed
envelopes were included with the bill, after you had paid for months or
years at an office in your own state or the next one over, they would
switch your billing address to a place on the other side of the country,
so it would take 2 or 3 days longer for your mail to get there, and you
and loads of others would be late, and would incur the extra charge.

I think enough people found out about this and they made it illegal.

Something banks would do is, when your balance was low enough that you
would bounce a check that day, instead of paying the checks in the order
they came in, they would pay the biggest check or checks first, to make
sure you were overdrawn immediately or as soon as possible. Then they
could bounce that check and every check that followed, collecting fees
every time. If they had paid the little checks first, they might have
all cleared and only the last check been an overdraft. They did this
on purpose and must have programmed their computer to do it. And it
was the leading, biggest banks in the country that did this. The days
of respecting your banker are gone. When I told one of them I would
never trust his bank again, he tried to tell me why the practice was all
right.

When enough people found out about this, I think because of Elizabeth
Warren, that was made illegal too.

But in both cases the credit card companies and banks said, Without this
revenue, we'll have to increase other fees, and they did. .

and that's
misleading and undoubtedly results in lots and lots and lots of
interest charges, which if people are carrying a balance on their
credit cards anyway, would probably go unnoticed.

It may be misleading, but it probably isn't in the list of misleading
things which are crimes, or they probably wouldn't do it. I just about
guarantee there will be no criminal prosecution of anyone who works for
the credit card company, or even of the corporation.

It's only $3.54, but it's the principle here. If you say "payment due
date", that normally means the date a person has to pay their bill by.
If it takes additional time for the payment to make it's way to it's
destination, that's something the recipient should take into account
when setting their payment due date.

In my experience in business and in banking that payment due date is the day
your payment is received by the lender. Not when you paid through some
other institution but when the actual lender receives the cash.

I always factor in lag time from on-line bank payments, I don't understand
why a credit charge goes through the day you make it but a payment can take
days.

Also, why does mail get there in a day or two, but takes weeks or months
to come back if it's misaddressed. And if one writes abroad, it might
take a week to get there, but if it is misadressed, it can take 6 months
to come back.

nestork wrote:
It turns out that the Royal Bank considers the phrase "payment due
date" to mean the date they have to recieve your payment by, not the
date you have to pay by.

Just like every other financial institution in the world. Where have you been??

Bob F wrote:

Just like every other financial institution in the world. Where have
you been??

I have an RBC visa credit card (just like nestork) and I frequently pay
it off on the day that it's due from an account at another bank (TD) -
and the payment always gets there in time. No interest charge.

On 4/25/2014 6:09 PM, nestork wrote:

Abez znow!

Which, in Ukrainian means "So that you know" but really means "So that
later on you have no recourse in claiming you didn't know."

I just got my April VISA bill in the mail today. They included $3.54 in
interest charges because they said I didn't pay my March VISA bill on
time. The "payment due date" on that March VISA bill was April 7th, and
I paid that bill at my local financial institution on April 3rd.

It turns out that the Royal Bank considers the phrase "payment due date"
to mean the date they have to recieve your payment by, not the date you
have to pay by. In my case, I paid on April 3 but the Royal Bank didn't
receive the money until April 9th, which was 2 days "late" by their
definition of "payment due date".

Needless to say, nowhere on my VISA bill do they clarify what is meant
by "payment due date", and so I presumed it meant the day I had to pay
by.

But, the kicker is that if you pay two days late, you don't get charged
interest on the outstanding balance for two days, you get charged
interest at 19.99% for 23 days. That's because the Royal Bank allows a
3 week grace period after they send out the bills for you to pay by.
The "payment due date" is the day after the end of that 3 week grace
period. If you don't pay by the payment due date, they charge interest
at 19.99% for the 3 week grace period as well. So, if you pay the day
after the payment due date, you're paying 22 days worth of interest, not
one day, or 22/365 times 19.99/100 times your outstanding balance.

I complained about this to someone at the Royal Bank today. I told them
that if they don't clarify what they mean by "payment due date", people
will presume it means they have to pay the bill by, not the date the
Royal Bank has to recieve the payment by, and that's misleading and
undoubtedly results in lots and lots and lots of interest charges, which
if people are carrying a balance on their credit cards anyway, would
probably go unnoticed.

It's only $3.54, but it's the principle here. If you say "payment due
date", that normally means the date a person has to pay their bill by.
If it takes additional time for the payment to make it's way to it's
destination, that's something the recipient should take into account
when setting their payment due date.




There's only one payee that I know of that does not mean "received by
this date." That's the USA Internal Revenue Service. They use the term,
"Postmarked By."

On Sat, 26 Apr 2014 03:09:36 +0200, nestork
wrote in


But, the kicker is that if you pay two days late, you don't get charged
interest on the outstanding balance for two days, you get charged
interest at 19.99% for 23 days.

You can see why they like it to be confusing.
--
Web based forums are like subscribing to 10 different newspapers
and having to visit 10 different news stands to pickup each one.
Email list-server groups and USENET are like having all of those
newspapers delivered to your door every morning.

"Tony Hwang" wrote in message
...
PV wrote:
nestork wrote:
Abez znow!

Which, in Ukrainian means "So that you know" but really means "So that
later on you have no recourse in claiming you didn't know."

I just got my April VISA bill in the mail today. They included $3.54
in interest charges because they said I didn't pay my March VISA bill
on time. The "payment due date" on that March VISA bill was April
7th, and I paid that bill at my local financial institution on April
3rd.

It turns out that the Royal Bank considers the phrase "payment due
date" to mean the date they have to recieve your payment by, not the
date you have to pay by. In my case, I paid on April 3 but the Royal
Bank didn't receive the money until April 9th, which was 2 days
"late" by their definition of "payment due date".

Needless to say, nowhere on my VISA bill do they clarify what is meant
by "payment due date", and so I presumed it meant the day I had to pay
by.

But, the kicker is that if you pay two days late, you don't get
charged interest on the outstanding balance for two days, you get
charged interest at 19.99% for 23 days. That's because the Royal
Bank allows a 3 week grace period after they send out the bills for
you to pay by. The "payment due date" is the day after the end of
that 3 week grace period. If you don't pay by the payment due date,
they charge interest at 19.99% for the 3 week grace period as well.
So, if you pay the day after the payment due date, you're paying 22
days worth of interest, not one day, or 22/365 times 19.99/100 times
your outstanding balance.

I complained about this to someone at the Royal Bank today. I told
them that if they don't clarify what they mean by "payment due date",
people will presume it means they have to pay the bill by, not the
date the Royal Bank has to recieve the payment by, and that's
misleading and undoubtedly results in lots and lots and lots of
interest charges, which if people are carrying a balance on their
credit cards anyway, would probably go unnoticed.

It's only $3.54, but it's the principle here. If you say "payment due
date", that normally means the date a person has to pay their bill by.
If it takes additional time for the payment to make it's way to it's
destination, that's something the recipient should take into account
when setting their payment due date.

In my experience in business and in banking that payment due date is the
day
your payment is received by the lender. Not when you paid through some
other institution but when the actual lender receives the cash.

I always factor in lag time from on-line bank payments, I don't
understand
why a credit charge goes through the day you make it but a payment can
take
days.

Hi,
Why not use on-line banking? x-action is almost instant. I had to pay tax
I owe on this year's tax return. I made the payment last night on-line,
the payment went thru already when I checked at lunch time today.

It's not instant with my bank! I have had to call them twice now because it
didn't show my payment. Sometimes it can take up to 6 days. Odd because my
Visa is at the same bank as my checking and savings.

On 04/25/2014 08:40 PM, Pico Rico wrote:
"nestork" wrote in message
...

Abez znow!

Which, in Ukrainian means "So that you know" but really means "So that
later on you have no recourse in claiming you didn't know."

Everybody already knows that. You're kidding, right?




Well I certainly never knew that.


As to the credit card bill. I too would have assumed that "due by" date
would have been acceptable, but the term is somewhat ambiguous and
obviously the credit card company wants to do everything possible to
collect interest.

I usually pay my credit card bill within a few days of getting it to
avoid such things. I am earning 0.01% interest on the money I have in my
savings account so I might as well just pay all my bills before they are
due.

"nestork" wrote in message

Abez znow!

It's only $3.54, but it's the principle here. If you say
"payment due date", that normally means the date a person
has to pay their bill by. If it takes additional time for
the payment to make it's way to it's destination, that's
something the recipient should take into account when
setting their payment due date.

Maybe in your world, not in mine. If someone informs me of a "payment due
date" that doesn't mean "date of mailing a check" to me, it means the date
the recipient expects to have cash in hand.

Brief story: when I lived in Mexico I used to pay my telephone bill via
credit card at Banco Nacional. (Most people went to the TelCo to pay,
standing in a line that was literally more than a block long).

I come home one day, phone is dead. I go to the TelMex office to find out
why. There is also (always) a long line for complaints but I had learned to
avoid it because the general manager has his desk out in the open; I went to
him. He said they had shut off my phone for non-payment. I explained that
I had paid it at the bank a couple of weeks previously; he calls the bank,
yes it was paid, no we haven't gotten around to sending it to you yet. He
turned my phone back on, I assume he managed to get the bank to send the
payment.


--

dadiOH
____________________________

Winters getting colder? Tired of the rat race?
Taxes out of hand? Maybe just ready for a change?
Check it out... http://www.floridaloghouse.net

On Sat, 26 Apr 2014 03:09:36 +0200, nestork
wrote:


Abez znow!

Which, in Ukrainian means "So that you know" but really means "So that
later on you have no recourse in claiming you didn't know."

I just got my April VISA bill in the mail today. They included $3.54 in
interest charges because they said I didn't pay my March VISA bill on
time. The "payment due date" on that March VISA bill was April 7th, and
I paid that bill at my local financial institution on April 3rd.

It turns out that the Royal Bank considers the phrase "payment due date"
to mean the date they have to recieve your payment by, not the date you
have to pay by.

That has been the fact with every financial institution for the past
100 years. You may get a couple of days grace on the phone or
electric bill, but not on a credit card.

Pay the bill on line. You save a trip to the bank and it is there the
same day up to a certain time. After that, it is considered the next
day. Some us a 7PM cut off date, others can go to midnight.

If you have a Royal Bank VISA, you may have some argument, but most
CCs go through a processing facility.

"Home Guy" "Home"@Guy. com wrote in message
...
Bob F wrote:

Just like every other financial institution in the world. Where have
you been??

I have an RBC visa credit card (just like nestork) and I frequently pay
it off on the day that it's due from an account at another bank (TD) -
and the payment always gets there in time. No interest charge.

wait until there is a glitch in the system. You better add a couple days
for the "glitch factor".

It's not the fault of the credit card company. Your
bank is holding the money for their own investment.
That used to be common in the US. Banks would hold
a check for a week of *business days*, which could be
about 10 days in some cases. They would take out your
money instantly but wait to send it on to the recipient.
That gave them a floating pile of cash that actually wasn't
theirs but that showed as theirs on papaer.
That's not allowed now where I live, but I don't know
whether it's a national regulation. In any case, the
standard is to mail a check and mail it more than a week
before it's due.

"nestork" wrote in message
...
|
| Abez znow!
|
| Which, in Ukrainian means "So that you know" but really means "So that
| later on you have no recourse in claiming you didn't know."
|
| I just got my April VISA bill in the mail today. They included $3.54 in
| interest charges because they said I didn't pay my March VISA bill on
| time. The "payment due date" on that March VISA bill was April 7th, and
| I paid that bill at my local financial institution on April 3rd.
|
| It turns out that the Royal Bank considers the phrase "payment due date"
| to mean the date they have to recieve your payment by, not the date you
| have to pay by. In my case, I paid on April 3 but the Royal Bank didn't
| receive the money until April 9th, which was 2 days "late" by their
| definition of "payment due date".
|
| Needless to say, nowhere on my VISA bill do they clarify what is meant
| by "payment due date", and so I presumed it meant the day I had to pay
| by.
|
| But, the kicker is that if you pay two days late, you don't get charged
| interest on the outstanding balance for two days, you get charged
| interest at 19.99% for 23 days. That's because the Royal Bank allows a
| 3 week grace period after they send out the bills for you to pay by.
| The "payment due date" is the day after the end of that 3 week grace
| period. If you don't pay by the payment due date, they charge interest
| at 19.99% for the 3 week grace period as well. So, if you pay the day
| after the payment due date, you're paying 22 days worth of interest, not
| one day, or 22/365 times 19.99/100 times your outstanding balance.
|
| I complained about this to someone at the Royal Bank today. I told them
| that if they don't clarify what they mean by "payment due date", people
| will presume it means they have to pay the bill by, not the date the
| Royal Bank has to recieve the payment by, and that's misleading and
| undoubtedly results in lots and lots and lots of interest charges, which
| if people are carrying a balance on their credit cards anyway, would
| probably go unnoticed.
|
| It's only $3.54, but it's the principle here. If you say "payment due
| date", that normally means the date a person has to pay their bill by.
| If it takes additional time for the payment to make it's way to it's
| destination, that's something the recipient should take into account
| when setting their payment due date.
|
|
|
|
| --
| nestork

On 04/25/2014 09:09 PM, nestork wrote:
I just got my April VISA bill in the mail today. They included $3.54 in
interest charges because they said I didn't pay my March VISA bill on
time. The "payment due date" on that March VISA bill was April 7th, and
I paid that bill at my local financial institution on April 3rd.

My old credit card company did that to me too...so I fired them. Now I use a debit card.

FWIW, my bank provides the same protection on their debit cards as a credit card.

On 4/25/2014 8:09 PM, nestork wrote:
....

I just got my April VISA bill in the mail today. They included $3.54 in
interest charges because they said I didn't pay my March VISA bill on
time. The "payment due date" on that March VISA bill was April 7th, and
I paid that bill at my local financial institution on April 3rd.

It turns out that the Royal Bank considers the phrase "payment due date"
to mean the date they have to recieve your payment by, ...

Needless to say, nowhere on my VISA bill do they clarify what is meant
by "payment due date", and so I presumed it meant the day I had to pay
by.

Maybe not on the the bill, but you can be quite sure it's in the terms
and conditions you signed on applying for and accepting the card.

But, the kicker is that if you pay two days late, you don't get charged
interest on the outstanding balance for two days, you get charged
interest at 19.99% for 23 days. That's because the Royal Bank allows a
3 week grace period after they send out the bills for you to pay by.

That's also in the terms and conditions...

....

I complained about this to someone at the Royal Bank today. I told them
that if they don't clarify what they mean by "payment due date", ...

They do; it's in the contract that you signed if you had only read it in
full.

It's only $3.54, but it's the principle here. If you say "payment due
date", that normally means the date a person has to pay their bill by.
If it takes additional time for the payment to make it's way to it's
destination, that's something the recipient should take into account
when setting their payment due date.

They've already done that; that's how they got the date they did as
explained in the T&C on the contract.

That said, I have on the rare occasion when there was a delay not of my
fault had success w/ American Express in getting the charge rescinded.

The way to ensure the payment is there on time when getting close to the
due date is to use the card's 800 number and pay by transfer directly
instead of thru the institution so you don't have the delay for them to
process. VISA or AmEx or whoever will have their system set up to
initiate the electronic transfer at the time of the call, not when
somebody at the bank gets around to entering it.

--

On Saturday, April 26, 2014 7:58:45 AM UTC-4, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On Sat, 26 Apr 2014 03:09:36 +0200, nestork

wrote:





Abez znow!



Which, in Ukrainian means "So that you know" but really means "So that

later on you have no recourse in claiming you didn't know."



I just got my April VISA bill in the mail today. They included $3.54 in

interest charges because they said I didn't pay my March VISA bill on

time. The "payment due date" on that March VISA bill was April 7th, and

I paid that bill at my local financial institution on April 3rd.



It turns out that the Royal Bank considers the phrase "payment due date"

to mean the date they have to recieve your payment by, not the date you

have to pay by.



That has been the fact with every financial institution for the past

100 years. You may get a couple of days grace on the phone or

electric bill, but not on a credit card.



+1

I also don't understand the nuance between "the date they have to receive
your payment by" and "the date you have to pay by". To me, in the context
we're talking about, they are one and the same. If a payment is due on the
10th, that means the recipient has to receive it by then.





Pay the bill on line. You save a trip to the bank and it is there the

same day up to a certain time. After that, it is considered the next

day. Some us a 7PM cut off date, others can go to midnight.



Exactly. That's what I do. I go to the credit card company website and
pay it there. Like you say, they credit it the same day, provided you
meet a cutoff, which might be 5 - 8PM, or as late as midnight. Provided
you pay it that way by the deadline, you get credited for it, even if
the credit card company doesn't collect from your bank account for a
couple days because of weekends, holidays, etc.

I don't even understand the concept of going to your local financial
institution to pay a bill to someone else. How exactly does that work?
I used to mail them, then switched to just paying it at the credit card
website. The problem here appears to be that the transaction is being
handled via telling his bank to pay the credit card company, instead of
going to the credit card company, entering a debit against your bank
account and leaving it up to them to collect. In the former case, the
credit card company doesn't know that you've done anything until whenever
your bank finally sends the money over. In the latter case, your payment
is entered into their system, they know it was made by the due date, they
give you credit for it, and then they collect it, sometimes a few days
later. They've never charged me late fees for that. The real problems
here appear to be the method used, cutting it too close, and having a bank
that's slow as a snail.



If you have a Royal Bank VISA, you may have some argument, but most

CCs go through a processing facility.

On 4/26/2014 8:26 AM, dpb wrote:
....

The way to ensure the payment is there on time when getting close to the
due date is to use the card's 800 number and pay by transfer directly
instead of thru the institution so you don't have the delay for them to
process. VISA or AmEx or whoever will have their system set up to
initiate the electronic transfer at the time of the call, not when
somebody at the bank gets around to entering it.

The other advantage is that way one also has the transaction
confirmation number for backup if should need it...

--

On Fri, 25 Apr 2014 18:09:36 -0700, nestork
wrote:


..snip...
It's only $3.54, but it's the principle here. If you say "payment due
date", that normally means the date a person has to pay their bill by.
If it takes additional time for the payment to make it's way to it's
destination, that's something the recipient should take into account
when setting their payment due date.

It's not just 3.54. it's the fact that they stole from you. Don't let them
get away with it at all!

Once I missed a payment, and truly missed, I forgot. Our VISA server, Bank
of America, as a courtesy removed late charges AND any interest charges.

Culmination is ASK! And, don't stop asking until you reach someone WITH
authority. And having AUTHORITY means that person has the ability to say,
yes. ANYBODY can say no. That's NOT authority.

Also, food for thought. Remember the days when credit cards were mailed
out willy nilly? Seemed like the stupidest business technique in the world
until I realized that just before ALL these cards got mailed out, the laws
changed allowing for extensive late AND penalty fees to be added. Thus,
the banks sent out credit cards to ANYBODY. If the person used the card
responsibly, the banks made money. If they used the cards irresponsibly,
got into debt, but still managed to pay off the cards; the banks made huge
money. AND, this is what irritated me the most, if the people simply used
the cards, defaulted; the banks froze the card and got to add penalties,
then fees and penalties, often taking the balance due way beyond 2 to 3
times what was owed BEFORE the bank cancelled the card, placing it into
'default'. NOW the bank has a legitmate paper loss that due to their
accounting system gets to 'write off' against other incomes. AND THUS, the
banks still made money. A real win-win situation for the banks, but not
for you and me, as taxpayers, we helped pay for that. So, when I get
'niggled' on ANY account; I complain like crazy, even sometimes when I
legitimately owe that money, like the example above.

On 4/25/2014 9:09 PM, nestork wrote:

Abez znow!

Which, in Ukrainian means "So that you know" but really means "So
that later on you have no recourse in claiming you didn't know."

I just got my April VISA bill in the mail today. They included $3.54
in interest charges because they said I didn't pay my March VISA bill
on time. The "payment due date" on that March VISA bill was April
7th, and I paid that bill at my local financial institution on April
3rd.

It turns out that the Royal Bank considers the phrase "payment due
date" to mean the date they have to recieve your payment by, not the
date you have to pay by. In my case, I paid on April 3 but the Royal
Bank didn't receive the money until April 9th, which was 2 days
"late" by their definition of "payment due date".

Needless to say, nowhere on my VISA bill do they clarify what is
meant by "payment due date", and so I presumed it meant the day I had
to pay by.

But, the kicker is that if you pay two days late, you don't get
charged interest on the outstanding balance for two days, you get
charged interest at 19.99% for 23 days. That's because the Royal
Bank allows a 3 week grace period after they send out the bills for
you to pay by. The "payment due date" is the day after the end of
that 3 week grace period. If you don't pay by the payment due date,
they charge interest at 19.99% for the 3 week grace period as well.
So, if you pay the day after the payment due date, you're paying 22
days worth of interest, not one day, or 22/365 times 19.99/100 times
your outstanding balance.

I complained about this to someone at the Royal Bank today. I told
them that if they don't clarify what they mean by "payment due date",
people will presume it means they have to pay the bill by, not the
date the Royal Bank has to recieve the payment by, and that's
misleading and undoubtedly results in lots and lots and lots of
interest charges, which if people are carrying a balance on their
credit cards anyway, would probably go unnoticed.

It's only $3.54, but it's the principle here. If you say "payment
due date", that normally means the date a person has to pay their
bill by. If it takes additional time for the payment to make it's way
to it's destination, that's something the recipient should take into
account when setting their payment due date.



If you always pay your Visa statement balance in full and never ever
make a partial payment, consider setting up an "autopay" arrangement.
You cite the routing number and account number of the savings or
checking account you want to be debited for the Visa balance, and the
payment is automatically, electronically paid on the due day. You will
still get a paper copy of the statement in the mail at the same time of
the month as you do at present, but it will have a comment on it that
the balance will be deducted from a designated account in accordance
with your previous instructions. You can still dispute errors and/or
apparently fraudulent charges. Very convenient.

On Saturday, April 26, 2014 10:41:29 AM UTC-4, Robert Macy wrote:
On Fri, 25 Apr 2014 18:09:36 -0700, nestork

wrote:





..snip...

It's only $3.54, but it's the principle here. If you say "payment due

date", that normally means the date a person has to pay their bill by.

If it takes additional time for the payment to make it's way to it's

destination, that's something the recipient should take into account

when setting their payment due date.



It's not just 3.54. it's the fact that they stole from you. Don't let them

get away with it at all!



How exactly is it that the credit card company "stole" from him?
The credit card company just charged $3.50 in interest because the
payment was not made on time. The credit card company is 100% in the
right, and the OP is wrong. Everyone knows that the payment due date
doesn't mean that you can start the payment process by mail or some
other means by that date and hope that it gets there. It means they
have to receive the payment by that date. He apparently started some
payment process by going to his local bank branch 4 days before the
due date. The credit card company had nothing to do with that. If
anything, maybe his own local bank is responsible for taking 6 days to
complete a payment request. That is who I'd be miffed at, not the
credit card company.






Once I missed a payment, and truly missed, I forgot. Our VISA server, Bank

of America, as a courtesy removed late charges AND any interest charges.



Culmination is ASK! And, don't stop asking until you reach someone WITH

authority. And having AUTHORITY means that person has the ability to say,

yes. ANYBODY can say no. That's NOT authority.



Also, food for thought. Remember the days when credit cards were mailed

out willy nilly? Seemed like the stupidest business technique in the world

until I realized that just before ALL these cards got mailed out, the laws

changed allowing for extensive late AND penalty fees to be added. Thus,

the banks sent out credit cards to ANYBODY. If the person used the card

responsibly, the banks made money. If they used the cards irresponsibly,

got into debt, but still managed to pay off the cards; the banks made huge

money. AND, this is what irritated me the most, if the people simply used

the cards, defaulted; the banks froze the card and got to add penalties,

then fees and penalties, often taking the balance due way beyond 2 to 3

times what was owed BEFORE the bank cancelled the card, placing it into

'default'. NOW the bank has a legitmate paper loss that due to their

accounting system gets to 'write off' against other incomes. AND THUS, the

banks still made money. A real win-win situation for the banks, but not

for you and me, as taxpayers, we helped pay for that. So, when I get

'niggled' on ANY account; I complain like crazy, even sometimes when I

legitimately owe that money, like the example above.


Yeah, the credit card company is so evil and greedy that all they are
charging apparently is the $3.50 in interest. Most credit card companies
would charge a $35 late payment fee.

On 04/25/2014 09:51 PM, micky wrote:

[snip]

Also, why does mail get there in a day or two, but takes weeks or months
to come back if it's misaddressed. And if one writes abroad, it might
take a week to get there, but if it is misadressed, it can take 6 months
to come back.


I once bought a DVR because of an advertised rebate.

The DVR was shipped in 3 days.

The rebate took several months.

I like the idea of setting up automatic VISA payments out of my chequing account.

Not only does that eliminate the need to pay the bill 3 to 5 business days in advance to avoid interest charges, it eliminates the need for me to write yet one more cheque.

Peter wrote:
On 4/25/2014 9:09 PM, nestork wrote:

Abez znow!

Which, in Ukrainian means "So that you know" but really means "So
that later on you have no recourse in claiming you didn't know."

I just got my April VISA bill in the mail today. They included $3.54
in interest charges because they said I didn't pay my March VISA bill
on time. The "payment due date" on that March VISA bill was April
7th, and I paid that bill at my local financial institution on April
3rd.

It turns out that the Royal Bank considers the phrase "payment due
date" to mean the date they have to recieve your payment by, not the
date you have to pay by. In my case, I paid on April 3 but the Royal
Bank didn't receive the money until April 9th, which was 2 days
"late" by their definition of "payment due date".

Needless to say, nowhere on my VISA bill do they clarify what is
meant by "payment due date", and so I presumed it meant the day I had
to pay by.

But, the kicker is that if you pay two days late, you don't get
charged interest on the outstanding balance for two days, you get
charged interest at 19.99% for 23 days. That's because the Royal
Bank allows a 3 week grace period after they send out the bills for
you to pay by. The "payment due date" is the day after the end of
that 3 week grace period. If you don't pay by the payment due date,
they charge interest at 19.99% for the 3 week grace period as well.
So, if you pay the day after the payment due date, you're paying 22
days worth of interest, not one day, or 22/365 times 19.99/100 times
your outstanding balance.

I complained about this to someone at the Royal Bank today. I told
them that if they don't clarify what they mean by "payment due date",
people will presume it means they have to pay the bill by, not the
date the Royal Bank has to recieve the payment by, and that's
misleading and undoubtedly results in lots and lots and lots of
interest charges, which if people are carrying a balance on their
credit cards anyway, would probably go unnoticed.

It's only $3.54, but it's the principle here. If you say "payment
due date", that normally means the date a person has to pay their
bill by. If it takes additional time for the payment to make it's way
to it's destination, that's something the recipient should take into
account when setting their payment due date.



If you always pay your Visa statement balance in full and never ever
make a partial payment, consider setting up an "autopay" arrangement.
You cite the routing number and account number of the savings or
checking account you want to be debited for the Visa balance, and the
payment is automatically, electronically paid on the due day. You will
still get a paper copy of the statement in the mail at the same time of
the month as you do at present, but it will have a comment on it that
the balance will be deducted from a designated account in accordance
with your previous instructions. You can still dispute errors and/or
apparently fraudulent charges. Very convenient.

Hi,
Almost all bill payment is set up that way. I got dinged couple years
ago. My property tax payment wsa due during my absence from home(my
fault not remembering) When I got back home I rushed to pay it but
city charged hefty late payment penalty. Since I set up auto debit on
most bills. Peace of mind. Just I make sure enough fund is available
in my checking account all the time.

"trader_4" wrote in message
news:8fd6cc1c-3ddf-46f9-b832-

If a payment is due on the 10th, that means the recipient has to receive
it by then.

That's my take. I don't know why people don't pay the bill on the day it
comes or soon after. (Lack of funds, maybe, but why spend money you don't
have?) You've already spent the money and the bank is actually giving *you*
an interest-free loan if you pay the entire bill by the due date. With
interest rates below 1%, any savings you might gain by paying as late as you
can is offset by the steep charges you can incur if you miss. Not worth the
effort or risk, IMHO.

Delaying making a payment also risks that the bill will get lost or
forgotten and both events have costly outcomes. CC companies will usually
forgive ONE late payment for good customers, but not two. If I miss two
payments I also lose any bonus points I've accrued. *Really* not worth it.

--
Bobby G.

Robert Green wrote:
"trader_4" wrote in message
news:8fd6cc1c-3ddf-46f9-b832-

If a payment is due on the 10th, that means the recipient has to
receive it by then.

That's my take. I don't know why people don't pay the bill on the
day it comes or soon after. (Lack of funds, maybe, but why spend
money you don't have?) You've already spent the money and the bank is
actually giving *you* an interest-free loan if you pay the entire
bill by the due date. With interest rates below 1%, any savings you
might gain by paying as late as you can is offset by the steep
charges you can incur if you miss. Not worth the effort or risk,
IMHO.

Delaying making a payment also risks that the bill will get lost or
forgotten and both events have costly outcomes. CC companies will
usually forgive ONE late payment for good customers, but not two. If
I miss two payments I also lose any bonus points I've accrued.
*Really* not worth it.

Sometime shortly after I get a bill, I usually schedule the payment online for a
day or 2 before the due date.

"trader_4" wrote in message
news:dbecace3-5906-482a-a034-

stuff snipped

How exactly is it that the credit card company "stole" from him?
The credit card company just charged $3.50 in interest because the
payment was not made on time. The credit card company is 100% in the
right, and the OP is wrong. Everyone knows that the payment due date
doesn't mean that you can start the payment process by mail or some
other means by that date and hope that it gets there.

Apparently not everyone knows that or we wouldn't be having this discussion.
(-:

Yeah, the credit card company is so evil and greedy that all they are
charging apparently is the $3.50 in interest. Most credit card companies
would charge a $35 late payment fee.

Indeed. What I can't understand is that if you're only getting 1% or less
interest in checking/savings, what do you really save by waiting until the
last minute to pay the bill? The upside is you might save all of a quarter
in interest (more likely a dime or less). The downside is you get hit for
$35 and interest fees trying to save a dime. It's not like you haven't
eaten the meals or burned the gas that you bought on the card. You got to
use the bank's money for free for up to a month. Yet some people want to
save a dime on top of that, even if the downside is so steep compared to the
savings. I don't get it.

--
Bobby G.

"Bob F" wrote in message
...
Robert Green wrote:

stuff snipped

Delaying making a payment also risks that the bill will get lost or
forgotten and both events have costly outcomes. CC companies will
usually forgive ONE late payment for good customers, but not two. If
I miss two payments I also lose any bonus points I've accrued.
*Really* not worth it.

Sometime shortly after I get a bill, I usually schedule the payment online
for a
day or 2 before the due date.

One card can't be paid from my bill paying service (competing companies) so
I have to write a check but the other card is automagically paid from my
savings account. Much better arrangement.

--
Bobby G.