We have some painted holiday "mice" as a chorus
created by an Uncle - very nice paintings...

They are 1/4" plywood - painted.

They are showing signs of "weathering",
and would like suggestions
on how to keep them in great shape ??

----------
BTW - they are only outside for the holiday season...

ps56k wrote:
We have some painted holiday "mice" as a chorus
created by an Uncle - very nice paintings...

They are 1/4" plywood - painted.

They are showing signs of "weathering",
and would like suggestions
on how to keep them in great shape ??

----------
BTW - they are only outside for the holiday season...

Hard to say because I really don't understand what you mean by showing signs
of weathing. If the paint is failing, then you have no choice but to have
someone touch up the paint. As for a coating that will survive the
elements, poly isn't going to work. You might want to consider putting a
couple of coats of shellac over the entire piece after any necessary paint
touch up. Don't be afraid to put several coats on. After that dries well,
you could take it to an automotive paint shop and have them shoot it with
automotive clear coat. That will stand up to the elements very well - just
think about your car.

I have shot automotive clear coat over shellac on guitars many times, so
don't worry about doing that. I would not shoot over just the paint though
since you risk incompatibility issues. The shellac will seal things well,
and the clear will lay on it just fine. It would not hurt to knock down the
last coat of shellac with 600 grit, or even a gray 3M pad before shooting
the clear.

I'd have to believe a body shop would do that kind of thing for next to
nothing as long as they're shooting a car anyway.

--

-Mike-

I would go to any marina or store that caters to the boating public and buy some "Spar" or "Marine" varnish for your mice signs.

Spar (aka: Marine) varnish is intended to withstand exposure to the elements as it's original purpose was in coating and sealing the exposed wooden spars on tall ships. It's most important when protecting any wood from the elements to treat the end grain of the wood. This is because wood absorbs moisture through it's end grain 15 times faster than it absorbs moisture across it's grain. So, weathering of wood usually is the result of the absorbtion of rain water or snow melt into the end grain of the wood. Where you have plywood, you have end grain along the entire periphery of the plywood.

Oil based coatings typically will yellow with age when used in a place with dim or minimal lighting. However, in direct or indirect sunlight, the Sun's rays will remove that acquired yellow discolouration. So, while you might a yellowish tint on the paintings from the spar varnish itself, any further yellowing will be eliminated once the paintings are exposed to direct or indirect sunlight for a few weeks. It would be best to arrange the paintings somewhere in your yard that receives a fair bit of sunlight for a few weeks before putting them on display for the general public to see.

Museum curators, who typically have far more paintings (done in oil) than they could ever put on display at one time will have sunny rooms in the museum where they can put oil based paintings that they intend to put on display in a few weeks. That way, the public sees the painting the way the painter painted it, not in it's yellowed condition after spending years in dimly lit storage rooms.

tnx all -
Hadn't thought about the "marine" aspect of coating the wood.
And yeah, it's probably the edges that are allowing the water infiltration.
I'll look around for some options to coat the edges, and the rest of the
sides.

"nestork" wrote in message
...

I would go to any marina or store that caters to the boating public and
buy some "Spar" or "Marine" varnish for your mice signs.

Spar (aka: Marine) varnish is intended to withstand exposure to the
elements as it's original purpose was in coating and sealing the exposed
wooden spars on tall ships. It's most important when protecting any
wood from the elements to treat the end grain of the wood. This is
because wood absorbs moisture through it's end grain 15 times faster
than it absorbs moisture across it's grain. So, weathering of wood
usually is the result of the absorbtion of rain water or snow melt into
the end grain of the wood. Where you have plywood, you have end grain
along the entire periphery of the plywood.

Oil based coatings typically will yellow with age when used in a place
with dim or minimal lighting. However, in direct or indirect sunlight,
the Sun's rays will remove that acquired yellow discolouration. So,
while you might a yellowish tint on the paintings from the spar varnish
itself, any further yellowing will be eliminated once the paintings are
exposed to direct or indirect sunlight for a few weeks. It would be
best to arrange the paintings somewhere in your yard that receives a
fair bit of sunlight for a few weeks before putting them on display for
the general public to see.

Museum curators, who typically have far more paintings (done in oil)
than they could ever put on display at one time will have sunny rooms in
the museum where they can put oil based paintings that they intend to
put on display in a few weeks. That way, the public sees the painting
the way the painter painted it, not in it's yellowed condition after
spending years in dimly lit storage rooms.




--
nestork

ps56k wrote:
tnx all -
Hadn't thought about the "marine" aspect of coating the wood.
And yeah, it's probably the edges that are allowing the water
infiltration. I'll look around for some options to coat the edges,
and the rest of the sides.

Despite the recommendation for spar varnishes below, you better investigate
the spar varnish you are buying. Not all spar varnishes are created equal
and not all - or even many, stand up to uv. Do not be fooled into thinking
that since it's a marine application it must be good. Do as you will, but
just be advised...


--

-Mike-




"nestork" wrote in message
...

I would go to any marina or store that caters to the boating public
and buy some "Spar" or "Marine" varnish for your mice signs.

Spar (aka: Marine) varnish is intended to withstand exposure to the
elements as it's original purpose was in coating and sealing the
exposed wooden spars on tall ships. It's most important when
protecting any wood from the elements to treat the end grain of the
wood. This is because wood absorbs moisture through it's end grain
15 times faster than it absorbs moisture across it's grain. So,
weathering of wood usually is the result of the absorbtion of rain
water or snow melt into the end grain of the wood. Where you have
plywood, you have end grain along the entire periphery of the
plywood. Oil based coatings typically will yellow with age when used in a
place with dim or minimal lighting. However, in direct or indirect
sunlight, the Sun's rays will remove that acquired yellow
discolouration. So, while you might a yellowish tint on the
paintings from the spar varnish itself, any further yellowing will
be eliminated once the paintings are exposed to direct or indirect
sunlight for a few weeks. It would be best to arrange the paintings
somewhere in your yard that receives a fair bit of sunlight for a
few weeks before putting them on display for the general public to
see. Museum curators, who typically have far more paintings (done in oil)
than they could ever put on display at one time will have sunny
rooms in the museum where they can put oil based paintings that they
intend to put on display in a few weeks. That way, the public sees
the painting the way the painter painted it, not in it's yellowed
condition after spending years in dimly lit storage rooms.




--
nestork

To be perfectly honest, I expect the difference between one Marine varnish and another are small compared to the similarities. Any place that sells Marine varnish is always going to recommend a product they sell, so how does one tell a good Marine varnish from a lousy one? Recommendations from friends? What happens if, as in all liklihood it will, it turns out that your friends don't know any more about Spar varnishes than you do? Then what?

nestork posted for all of us...

And I know how to SNIP




To be perfectly honest, I expect the difference between one Marine
varnish and another are small compared to the similarities. Any place
that sells Marine varnish is always going to recommend a product they
sell, so how does one tell a good Marine varnish from a lousy one?
Recommendations from friends? What happens if your friends know less
about it than you do?




--
nestork

Ask a Marine? He'll tell you what varnish is used for...

--
Tekkie

ps56k wrote:
tnx all -
Hadn't thought about the "marine" aspect of coating the wood.
And yeah, it's probably the edges that are allowing the water
infiltration. I'll look around for some options to coat the edges,
and the rest of the sides.
------------------------------------------------

"Mike Marlow" wrote:

Despite the recommendation for spar varnishes below, you better
investigate the spar varnish you are buying. Not all spar varnishes
are created equal and not all - or even many, stand up to uv. Do
not be fooled into thinking that since it's a marine application it
must be good. Do as you will, but just be advised...
-----------------------------------------------------
Mike is right, the last thing you want to use is a true spar varnish.

Spar varnish NEVER completely hardens since it is designed to flex
with the wooden spar when under load while sailing.

Haven't seen the signs, but if it was me, I would take some 100 grit
sandpaper and sand the raw plywood edges then coat with epoxy
from somebody like System 3, WEST systems, etc.

This will get you to System3.

http://tinyurl.com/mqutjkg

Allow about a week and then apply marine varnish such as Epifanes
available from West Marine or Jamestown Distributers which will
provide
the UV protection for the epoxy as well as the wood.

This will get you started.

http://tinyurl.com/mzrlg7j

Have fun.

Lew

On 4/23/14 8:38 PM, Lew Hodgett wrote:
ps56k wrote:
tnx all -
Hadn't thought about the "marine" aspect of coating the wood.
And yeah, it's probably the edges that are allowing the water
infiltration. I'll look around for some options to coat the edges,
and the rest of the sides.
------------------------------------------------

"Mike Marlow" wrote:

Despite the recommendation for spar varnishes below, you better
investigate the spar varnish you are buying. Not all spar varnishes
are created equal and not all - or even many, stand up to uv. Do
not be fooled into thinking that since it's a marine application it
must be good. Do as you will, but just be advised...
-----------------------------------------------------
Mike is right, the last thing you want to use is a true spar varnish.

Spar varnish NEVER completely hardens since it is designed to flex
with the wooden spar when under load while sailing.

Haven't seen the signs, but if it was me, I would take some 100 grit
sandpaper and sand the raw plywood edges then coat with epoxy
from somebody like System 3, WEST systems, etc.

This will get you to System3.

http://tinyurl.com/mqutjkg

Allow about a week and then apply marine varnish such as Epifanes
available from West Marine or Jamestown Distributers which will
provide
the UV protection for the epoxy as well as the wood.

Good stuff that Epifanes!
I had a few old cans of Minwax 'spar varnish' that I used on some
outdoor wood (only lasted a few months in the Southwest sunshine).
Bought a can of the Jamestown dist. 'Epifanes' and after several years
things are still peachy.

I used the System III on some wood clappers for giant wind chimes and it
bit the dust after about three years. Stuff that I sprayed with clear
coat automotive paint is completely unphased (gawd awful expensive
nowadays though).

-Bruce


This will get you started.

http://tinyurl.com/mzrlg7j

Have fun.

Lew









--- news://freenews.netfront.net/ - complaints: ---

Brewster wrote:


I used the System III on some wood clappers for giant wind chimes and
it bit the dust after about three years. Stuff that I sprayed with
clear coat automotive paint is completely unphased (gawd awful
expensive nowadays though).


Yeah - very expensive if you pay retail. Safe to assume in the neighborhood
of $150/gal with activator. For small stuff it's better just to take it to
a body shop and let them shoot it while they're clearing a car.

--

-Mike-

On 4/26/2014 10:00 AM, Brewster wrote:
On 4/23/14 8:38 PM, Lew Hodgett wrote:
ps56k wrote:
tnx all -
Hadn't thought about the "marine" aspect of coating the wood.
And yeah, it's probably the edges that are allowing the water
infiltration. I'll look around for some options to coat the edges,
and the rest of the sides.
------------------------------------------------

"Mike Marlow" wrote:

Despite the recommendation for spar varnishes below, you better
investigate the spar varnish you are buying. Not all spar varnishes
are created equal and not all - or even many, stand up to uv. Do
not be fooled into thinking that since it's a marine application it
must be good. Do as you will, but just be advised...
-----------------------------------------------------
Mike is right, the last thing you want to use is a true spar varnish.

Spar varnish NEVER completely hardens since it is designed to flex
with the wooden spar when under load while sailing.

Haven't seen the signs, but if it was me, I would take some 100 grit
sandpaper and sand the raw plywood edges then coat with epoxy
from somebody like System 3, WEST systems, etc.

This will get you to System3.

http://tinyurl.com/mqutjkg

Allow about a week and then apply marine varnish such as Epifanes
available from West Marine or Jamestown Distributers which will
provide
the UV protection for the epoxy as well as the wood.

Good stuff that Epifanes!
I had a few old cans of Minwax 'spar varnish' that I used on some
outdoor wood (only lasted a few months in the Southwest sunshine).
Bought a can of the Jamestown dist. 'Epifanes' and after several years
things are still peachy.

I used the System III on some wood clappers for giant wind chimes and it
bit the dust after about three years. Stuff that I sprayed with clear
coat automotive paint is completely unphased (gawd awful expensive
nowadays though).

-Bruce


This will get you started.

http://tinyurl.com/mzrlg7j

Have fun.

Lew









--- news://freenews.netfront.net/ - complaints: ---

Epoxy should be coated with a uv protectant. It will degrade if left in
the sun. Generally epoxy followed by spar is a good finish, since spar
has uv protection. Also I saw someone in a mag recommended the clear
base from an exterior paint. It's clear until colored he said.

--
Jeff

woodchucker wrote:


Epoxy should be coated with a uv protectant. It will degrade if left
in the sun. Generally epoxy followed by spar is a good finish, since
spar has uv protection. Also I saw someone in a mag recommended the
clear base from an exterior paint. It's clear until colored he said.

A little out of my wheelhouse Jeff, but I thought that spar did not offer UV
protection - or at least not good UV protection. That's one of the great
mis-conceptions about spar varnish as I understand it.

--

-Mike-

"Mike Marlow" wrote:

Despite the recommendation for spar varnishes below, you better
investigate the spar varnish you are buying. Not all spar
varnishes
are created equal and not all - or even many, stand up to uv. Do
not be fooled into thinking that since it's a marine application
it
must be good. Do as you will, but just be advised...
-----------------------------------------------------
Lew Hodgett wrote:

Mike is right, the last thing you want to use is a true spar
varnish.

Spar varnish NEVER completely hardens since it is designed to flex
with the wooden spar when under load while sailing.
--------------------------------------------------------
Lew Hodgett wrote:
snip
Allow about a week and then apply marine varnish such as Epifanes
available from West Marine or Jamestown Distributers which will
provide
the UV protection for the epoxy as well as the wood.
-----------------------------------------------------------
"woodchucker" wrote:
snip
Epoxy should be coated with a uv protectant. It will degrade if left
in the sun.
snip
----------------------------------------------------
What part of the above post didn't you read and understand?

Lew

On 4/26/2014 8:35 PM, Lew Hodgett wrote:
"Mike Marlow" wrote:

Despite the recommendation for spar varnishes below, you better
investigate the spar varnish you are buying. Not all spar
varnishes
are created equal and not all - or even many, stand up to uv. Do
not be fooled into thinking that since it's a marine application
it
must be good. Do as you will, but just be advised...
-----------------------------------------------------
Lew Hodgett wrote:

Mike is right, the last thing you want to use is a true spar
varnish.

Spar varnish NEVER completely hardens since it is designed to flex
with the wooden spar when under load while sailing.
--------------------------------------------------------
Lew Hodgett wrote:
snip
Allow about a week and then apply marine varnish such as Epifanes
available from West Marine or Jamestown Distributers which will
provide
the UV protection for the epoxy as well as the wood.
-----------------------------------------------------------
"woodchucker" wrote:
snip
Epoxy should be coated with a uv protectant. It will degrade if left
in the sun.
snip
----------------------------------------------------
What part of the above post didn't you read and understand?

Lew


One could ask you the same.. why didn't you read what I wrote.
I was responding to the fact that epoxy alone did not last.
Which is a given since it needs a UV protectant.

Spar alone is not perfect either. The two together are very good.
The spar contains the UV protectant and the epoxy keeps the piece water
proof. Another thing is the spar is sacrificial, meaning it will
degrade ... sand it off as it becomes chalky and re-apply. The epoxy
should still be good.

--
Jeff

On 4/26/14 5:26 PM, woodchucker wrote:
On 4/26/2014 10:00 AM, Brewster wrote:
On 4/23/14 8:38 PM, Lew Hodgett wrote:
ps56k wrote:
tnx all -
Hadn't thought about the "marine" aspect of coating the wood.
And yeah, it's probably the edges that are allowing the water
infiltration. I'll look around for some options to coat the edges,
and the rest of the sides.
------------------------------------------------

"Mike Marlow" wrote:

Despite the recommendation for spar varnishes below, you better
investigate the spar varnish you are buying. Not all spar varnishes
are created equal and not all - or even many, stand up to uv. Do
not be fooled into thinking that since it's a marine application it
must be good. Do as you will, but just be advised...
-----------------------------------------------------
Mike is right, the last thing you want to use is a true spar varnish.

Spar varnish NEVER completely hardens since it is designed to flex
with the wooden spar when under load while sailing.

Haven't seen the signs, but if it was me, I would take some 100 grit
sandpaper and sand the raw plywood edges then coat with epoxy
from somebody like System 3, WEST systems, etc.

This will get you to System3.

http://tinyurl.com/mqutjkg

Allow about a week and then apply marine varnish such as Epifanes
available from West Marine or Jamestown Distributers which will
provide
the UV protection for the epoxy as well as the wood.

Good stuff that Epifanes!
I had a few old cans of Minwax 'spar varnish' that I used on some
outdoor wood (only lasted a few months in the Southwest sunshine).
Bought a can of the Jamestown dist. 'Epifanes' and after several years
things are still peachy.

I used the System III on some wood clappers for giant wind chimes and it
bit the dust after about three years. Stuff that I sprayed with clear
coat automotive paint is completely unphased (gawd awful expensive
nowadays though).

-Bruce


This will get you started.

http://tinyurl.com/mzrlg7j

Have fun.

Lew



--- news://freenews.netfront.net/ - complaints: ---

Epoxy should be coated with a uv protectant. It will degrade if left in
the sun. Generally epoxy followed by spar is a good finish, since spar
has uv protection. Also I saw someone in a mag recommended the clear
base from an exterior paint. It's clear until colored he said.


The epoxy I used was for deck coating and claimed to have UV inhibitors,
but then again I remember reading that a finish isn't really UV hardy
unless it is opaque.

-Bruce


--- news://freenews.netfront.net/ - complaints: ---

Brewster wrote:


The epoxy I used was for deck coating and claimed to have UV
inhibitors, but then again I remember reading that a finish isn't
really UV hardy unless it is opaque.


That may be true for traditional finishes, but it's not true for catalyzed
finishes. And... there's a difference between UV inhibitors and a product
being UV resistant.

--

-Mike-

On 4/27/2014 10:22 AM, Brewster wrote:
On 4/26/14 5:26 PM, woodchucker wrote:
On 4/26/2014 10:00 AM, Brewster wrote:
On 4/23/14 8:38 PM, Lew Hodgett wrote:
ps56k wrote:
tnx all -
Hadn't thought about the "marine" aspect of coating the wood.
And yeah, it's probably the edges that are allowing the water
infiltration. I'll look around for some options to coat the edges,
and the rest of the sides.
------------------------------------------------

"Mike Marlow" wrote:

Despite the recommendation for spar varnishes below, you better
investigate the spar varnish you are buying. Not all spar varnishes
are created equal and not all - or even many, stand up to uv. Do
not be fooled into thinking that since it's a marine application it
must be good. Do as you will, but just be advised...
-----------------------------------------------------
Mike is right, the last thing you want to use is a true spar varnish.

Spar varnish NEVER completely hardens since it is designed to flex
with the wooden spar when under load while sailing.

Haven't seen the signs, but if it was me, I would take some 100 grit
sandpaper and sand the raw plywood edges then coat with epoxy
from somebody like System 3, WEST systems, etc.

This will get you to System3.

http://tinyurl.com/mqutjkg

Allow about a week and then apply marine varnish such as Epifanes
available from West Marine or Jamestown Distributers which will
provide
the UV protection for the epoxy as well as the wood.

Good stuff that Epifanes!
I had a few old cans of Minwax 'spar varnish' that I used on some
outdoor wood (only lasted a few months in the Southwest sunshine).
Bought a can of the Jamestown dist. 'Epifanes' and after several years
things are still peachy.

I used the System III on some wood clappers for giant wind chimes and it
bit the dust after about three years. Stuff that I sprayed with clear
coat automotive paint is completely unphased (gawd awful expensive
nowadays though).

-Bruce


This will get you started.

http://tinyurl.com/mzrlg7j

Have fun.

Lew



--- news://freenews.netfront.net/ - complaints: ---

Epoxy should be coated with a uv protectant. It will degrade if left in
the sun. Generally epoxy followed by spar is a good finish, since spar
has uv protection. Also I saw someone in a mag recommended the clear
base from an exterior paint. It's clear until colored he said.


The epoxy I used was for deck coating and claimed to have UV inhibitors,
but then again I remember reading that a finish isn't really UV hardy
unless it is opaque.

_But then why do you think Epifanes worked? It's not opaque._
UV protection can be opaque, to protect the underlying surface
or it can be a blocker to protect it.

Spar finish is clear, and many have UV blockers/inhibitors. This is to
protect both the underlying surface and the spar.


-Bruce


--- news://freenews.netfront.net/ - complaints: ---


--
Jeff

On 4/27/14 8:46 AM, woodchucker wrote:
On 4/27/2014 10:22 AM, Brewster wrote:
On 4/26/14 5:26 PM, woodchucker wrote:
On 4/26/2014 10:00 AM, Brewster wrote:
On 4/23/14 8:38 PM, Lew Hodgett wrote:
ps56k wrote:
tnx all -
Hadn't thought about the "marine" aspect of coating the wood.
And yeah, it's probably the edges that are allowing the water
infiltration. I'll look around for some options to coat the edges,
and the rest of the sides.
------------------------------------------------

"Mike Marlow" wrote:

Despite the recommendation for spar varnishes below, you better
investigate the spar varnish you are buying. Not all spar varnishes
are created equal and not all - or even many, stand up to uv. Do
not be fooled into thinking that since it's a marine application it
must be good. Do as you will, but just be advised...
-----------------------------------------------------
Mike is right, the last thing you want to use is a true spar varnish.

Spar varnish NEVER completely hardens since it is designed to flex
with the wooden spar when under load while sailing.

Haven't seen the signs, but if it was me, I would take some 100 grit
sandpaper and sand the raw plywood edges then coat with epoxy
from somebody like System 3, WEST systems, etc.

This will get you to System3.

http://tinyurl.com/mqutjkg

Allow about a week and then apply marine varnish such as Epifanes
available from West Marine or Jamestown Distributers which will
provide
the UV protection for the epoxy as well as the wood.

Good stuff that Epifanes!
I had a few old cans of Minwax 'spar varnish' that I used on some
outdoor wood (only lasted a few months in the Southwest sunshine).
Bought a can of the Jamestown dist. 'Epifanes' and after several years
things are still peachy.

I used the System III on some wood clappers for giant wind chimes
and it
bit the dust after about three years. Stuff that I sprayed with clear
coat automotive paint is completely unphased (gawd awful expensive
nowadays though).

-Bruce


This will get you started.

http://tinyurl.com/mzrlg7j

Have fun.

Lew



--- news://freenews.netfront.net/ - complaints: ---

Epoxy should be coated with a uv protectant. It will degrade if left in
the sun. Generally epoxy followed by spar is a good finish, since spar
has uv protection. Also I saw someone in a mag recommended the clear
base from an exterior paint. It's clear until colored he said.


The epoxy I used was for deck coating and claimed to have UV inhibitors,
but then again I remember reading that a finish isn't really UV hardy
unless it is opaque.

_But then why do you think Epifanes worked? It's not opaque._
UV protection can be opaque, to protect the underlying surface
or it can be a blocker to protect it.

Spar finish is clear, and many have UV blockers/inhibitors. This is to
protect both the underlying surface and the spar.

I guess it's a matter of time.
The usual suspects barely made it a year before croaking. The Epifanes
ha lasted several and is still OK. The epoxy made it about three before
failing.
-Bruce


--- news://freenews.netfront.net/ - complaints: ---