I have seen two basic types:

1. place water detectors near water heater, washer, etc.

OR

2. monitor water flow into the house for unusual, constant flow.


I like the idea of the second type, as that would shut off the house water
if a toilet goes leaking. Here is this type that I have found:
http://www.flologic.com/

I am not a shill for this company, but wonder if anyone has any experience
with it. It seems expensive ($1,500.00 if I recall). I have not found any
reviews on line, and wonder if it is reliable. I would want such a device
to just work for 25 years, no fuss, no muss. I don't want a lot of
repairs/replacements.

Any competitors for design type #2?

There are advantages and disadvantages to every different design.

It seems to me that the $1500 would be better spent on ten years worth of insurance to cover you in the event of a burst pipe or toilet overflowing. Your home owner's policy almost certainly already covers water damage from a burst pipe or toilet overflowing, but the cost of adding that coverage wouldn't be more than $100 to $200 per year .

And, the insurance will pay to repair the water damage. The $1500 gadget won't.

Many products are available in market that offers a full range of products and systems that automatically shut off the water supply when a leak is detected in your home or business. For more information http://www.epdmcoatings.com/liquid-rubber.html

"Albert Mclaren" wrote in message
...
Many products are available in market that offers a full range of products
and systems that automatically shut off the water supply when a leak is
detected in your home or business. For more information
http://www.epdmcoatings.com/liquid-rubber.html

wrong link?

On Thu, 27 Mar 2014 05:56:04 -0700, "Pico Rico"
wrote:


"Albert Mclaren" wrote in message
...
Many products are available in market that offers a full range of products
and systems that automatically shut off the water supply when a leak is
detected in your home or business. For more information
http://www.epdmcoatings.com/liquid-rubber.html

wrong link?


Spammer from Pakistan.

"Oren" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 27 Mar 2014 05:56:04 -0700, "Pico Rico"
wrote:


"Albert Mclaren" wrote in message
...
Many products are available in market that offers a full range of
products
and systems that automatically shut off the water supply when a leak is
detected in your home or business. For more information
http://www.epdmcoatings.com/liquid-rubber.html

wrong link?


Spammer from Pakistan.

got it. Saw that in another post.

On Thursday, March 27, 2014 7:18:20 PM UTC-4, G. Morgan wrote:
Pico Rico wrote:



I have seen two basic types:



1. place water detectors near water heater, washer, etc.





I've used 'Waterbugs" to detect the presence or absence of water, then

trigger an alarm and solenoid to a shutoff valve.





http://www.winland.com/waterbugalert.html



I looked into the two different approaches a few years ago. I didn't
wind up doing anything. I currently have one of the $10 self-contained,
battery contact alarms located by the WH and furnace, protecting both.
Won't do any good if it's a sudden catastrophic failure or if no one
is around for long periods, etc. But if it's a more typical water heater
failure, starting with a slow leak, it will catch it. I've seen people
use similar by washing machines that are in the living space, etc.
Same problem though, it will alert if it's a slow leak, but isn't going
to stop a sudden massive hose burst when no one is home.

IDK anyone who has one of the intelligent types that looks for unusual
water flow. The big question I'd have there is how many false trips
do you get? For example, if you hook up a hose to water shrubs, or
hook it to an automatic sprinkler to water something, how does it know
that compared to a burst pipe, WH, etc? I would think you could get
enough false trips to make it annoying.

Has the OP looked on Amazon, if they sell any such devices there, where
he might find people's reviews? Or just google whatever the product is
and "review". It's also an issue of what exactly you have to protect
and what the cost is. I'd be skeptical that it's worth spending $1500
on for most people. And unless water is unusually expensive, I wouldn't
be worried about a running toilet. For the toilet, they have new
replacement valve assemblies that partially solve that problem. They
have an interlock, where once the tank fills, more water won't come
in unless it's flushed again. So, the slow leak from a flapper
results in an empty tank, no water loss, and you see it. It's no
good if the flapper gets stuck and fails to seat at all. In that
case, water will continue to run.

In my case, I have the WH in an unfinished basement. My main vulnerability
would be burst washer hoses. And if that's your main concern, they have
devices for a couple hundred bucks that electronically shut off the water
after each time the washer is used. Also they have the newer hoses
that are supposed to self-shutoff if the hose bursts. Don't know how
well they work. And for the WH, a WH pan under it that you may be
able to route somewhere would probably protect against the typical
failure, but probably not a total blow out. Just some alternate things
to consider that while not perfect, could reduce exposure significantly.

"trader_4" wrote in message
...
On Thursday, March 27, 2014 7:18:20 PM UTC-4, G. Morgan wrote:
Pico Rico wrote:

I've used 'Waterbugs" to detect the presence or absence of water, then

trigger an alarm and solenoid to a shutoff valve.

http://www.winland.com/waterbugalert.html


I looked into the two different approaches a few years ago. I didn't
wind up doing anything. I currently have one of the $10 self-contained,
battery contact alarms located by the WH and furnace, protecting both.
Won't do any good if it's a sudden catastrophic failure or if no one
is around for long periods, etc. But if it's a more typical water heater
failure, starting with a slow leak, it will catch it. I've seen people
use similar by washing machines that are in the living space, etc.
Same problem though, it will alert if it's a slow leak, but isn't going
to stop a sudden massive hose burst when no one is home.

IDK anyone who has one of the intelligent types that looks for unusual
water flow. The big question I'd have there is how many false trips
do you get? For example, if you hook up a hose to water shrubs, or
hook it to an automatic sprinkler to water something, how does it know
that compared to a burst pipe, WH, etc? I would think you could get
enough false trips to make it annoying.

That is one question I would love to have answered by someone who has
installed one of the intelligent types (which monitors water flow through
the service pipe). For me personally, if I have to hit a button when I am
giving a tree a deep soak - I can handle that.



Has the OP looked on Amazon, if they sell any such devices there, where
he might find people's reviews? Or just google whatever the product is
and "review". It's also an issue of what exactly you have to protect
and what the cost is. I'd be skeptical that it's worth spending $1500
on for most people.

I was shocked at the price, not just for "is this solution worth the
expense?" but also "$1500 for this little doohickey that does not even
include installation?" I did not see much chatter on this or any reviews.

And unless water is unusually expensive, I wouldn't
be worried about a running toilet.

A 2.5 day running toilet just resulted in an $800 higher bill. They have
punitive upper tiers on their water bills. Appeal/begging is in process.

For the toilet, they have new
replacement valve assemblies that partially solve that problem. They
have an interlock, where once the tank fills, more water won't come
in unless it's flushed again.

That is great idea. Brand and model please. And "generic name" that I
might search/ask for. Thanks.

So, the slow leak from a flapper
results in an empty tank, no water loss, and you see it. It's no
good if the flapper gets stuck and fails to seat at all. In that
case, water will continue to run.

Understood. But that you should catch by not leaving the house without
making sure the toilets are not running. Should. Hopefully.

I am in the habit of turning off the water when I go on vacation. Easy to
do, and it is on the check list. I will likely continue to do so even after
I replace my 60 year old galvanized pipes.

On Friday, March 28, 2014 10:34:52 AM UTC-4, Pico Rico wrote:
And unless water is unusually expensive, I wouldn't

be worried about a running toilet.



A 2.5 day running toilet just resulted in an $800 higher bill. They have

punitive upper tiers on their water bills. Appeal/begging is in process.



Good grief! What's the rate there for water? Here in NJ, I get 6,000
gallons a month for the minimum rate. After that it's $6 per thousand
gallons. Like yours, it can also go up from that. But I've never
gotten to the rates that are higher. I think the $6 rate covers maybe
the next 10,000 gallons.




For the toilet, they have new

replacement valve assemblies that partially solve that problem. They

have an interlock, where once the tank fills, more water won't come

in unless it's flushed again.



That is great idea. Brand and model please. And "generic name" that I

might search/ask for. Thanks.



http://www.homedepot.com/p/Fluidmast...7?N=5yc1vZc6b8






So, the slow leak from a flapper

results in an empty tank, no water loss, and you see it. It's no

good if the flapper gets stuck and fails to seat at all. In that

case, water will continue to run.



Understood. But that you should catch by not leaving the house without

making sure the toilets are not running. Should. Hopefully.



I am in the habit of turning off the water when I go on vacation. Easy to

do, and it is on the check list. I will likely continue to do so even after

I replace my 60 year old galvanized pipes.


I always turn mine off when I go away for more than a day.

"Pico Rico" wrote:
I have seen two basic types:

1. place water detectors near water heater, washer, etc.

OR

2. monitor water flow into the house for unusual, constant flow.


I like the idea of the second type, as that would shut off the house water
if a toilet goes leaking. Here is this type that I have found:
http://www.flologic.com/

I am not a shill for this company, but wonder if anyone has any experience
with it. It seems expensive ($1,500.00 if I recall). I have not found any
reviews on line, and wonder if it is reliable. I would want such a device
to just work for 25 years, no fuss, no muss. I don't want a lot of
repairs/replacements.

Any competitors for design type #2?

Have you looked at the Watts Floodsafe line of connectors? It's a fixture
specific solution, not a whole house monitoring device.

Descriptions and videos here...

http://www.watts.com/pages/whatsnew/...connectors.asp

On Tue, 25 Mar 2014 15:03:30 -0700, "Pico Rico"
wrote:

I have seen two basic types:

1. place water detectors near water heater, washer, etc.

OR

2. monitor water flow into the house for unusual, constant flow.

They have clothes washer hoses that do 2 for the washer only.

Abosolutely don't rely on rubber only hoses, because they will burst
eventually. Stainless steel clad at least, and if that is not enough
get what you have below ALSO or the special turn-off hoses.

The owners manuals of washing machines say to turn off the water when
not washing. Seems like the typical extra-caution junk, but it's not
extra. They mean it.


I like the idea of the second type, as that would shut off the house water
if a toilet goes leaking. Here is this type that I have found:
http://www.flologic.com/

I am not a shill for this company, but wonder if anyone has any experience
with it. It seems expensive ($1,500.00 if I recall). I have not found any
reviews on line, and wonder if it is reliable. I would want such a device
to just work for 25 years, no fuss, no muss. I don't want a lot of
repairs/replacements.

Any competitors for design type #2?

On Tue, 25 Mar 2014 15:03:30 -0700, "Pico Rico"
wrote:

I have seen two basic types:

1. place water detectors near water heater, washer, etc.

OR

2. monitor water flow into the house for unusual, constant flow.


I like the idea of the second type, as that would shut off the house water
if a toilet goes leaking. Here is this type that I have found:
http://www.flologic.com/

I am not a shill for this company, but wonder if anyone has any experience
with it. It seems expensive ($1,500.00 if I recall). I have not found any
reviews on line, and wonder if it is reliable. I would want such a device
to just work for 25 years, no fuss, no muss. I don't want a lot of
repairs/replacements.

Any competitors for design type #2?

Maybe I should add that I went out one day, came back 2 hours later, and
the toilet in my powder room was spraying water all over the floor,
raining into the basement, and spreading to the hall floor too. It
had never shown any sign of trouble before, afainoticed. Glad I was
only gone two hours, and it probably didn't start right away.

I havent' taken any precautions against that happening again.

On Fri, 28 Mar 2014 07:34:52 -0700, "Pico Rico"
wrote:


So, the slow leak from a flapper
results in an empty tank, no water loss, and you see it. It's no
good if the flapper gets stuck and fails to seat at all. In that
case, water will continue to run.

A slow leak from my flapper results in the tank being refilled and
leaking some more, constantly. .

In this case the leak was so slow I coudlnt' see the slightest ripple in
the bowl, but the leak could be faster.

On Sunday, March 30, 2014 2:01:11 AM UTC-4, micky wrote:
On Fri, 28 Mar 2014 07:34:52 -0700, "Pico Rico"

wrote:





So, the slow leak from a flapper

results in an empty tank, no water loss, and you see it. It's no

good if the flapper gets stuck and fails to seat at all. In that

case, water will continue to run.



A slow leak from my flapper results in the tank being refilled and

leaking some more, constantly. .



That's because you don't have one of the new water-saver type
valves that prevent that. That is what my comments and recommendation
were about.




In this case the leak was so slow I coudlnt' see the slightest ripple in

the bowl, but the leak could be faster.

See above.

On Sun, 30 Mar 2014 07:54:13 -0700 (PDT), trader_4
wrote:

On Sunday, March 30, 2014 2:01:11 AM UTC-4, micky wrote:
On Fri, 28 Mar 2014 07:34:52 -0700, "Pico Rico"

wrote:





So, the slow leak from a flapper

results in an empty tank, no water loss, and you see it. It's no

good if the flapper gets stuck and fails to seat at all. In that

case, water will continue to run.



A slow leak from my flapper results in the tank being refilled and

leaking some more, constantly. .



That's because you don't have one of the new water-saver type
valves that prevent that. That is what my comments and recommendation
were about.

Oh, yeah. I see that now. Sorry.


In this case the leak was so slow I coudlnt' see the slightest ripple in

the bowl, but the leak could be faster.

See above.

I've done quite a bit of research myself and the three sensorless water detection systems with a water supply shut off valve are the Flologic system, Leak Defense System, and Water Signal.

As mentioned, the Flologic system is pretty expensive at $1500, not including install if you're not comfortable cutting into your plumbing and soldering, etc. The other drawback that I've found is that this technology uses an flow meter design. Flow meters have an impeller which spins as the water flows past, and they do wear out over time and require replacement. The user manual even indicates that replacement is required and varies depending on the water hardness.

The Leak Defense System I believe also uses the flow meter type design. I haven't been able to find pricing on this system as you most likely need to contact their installers / distributors.

Water Signal requires installation near the water meter at the road. This system detects the clicks (signifying revolutions of the water meter dial, and therefore water usage) that are emitted from city-installed water meters, and can detect when too many clicks are occur. This system is geared more towards commercial building / multi-family apartment applications but probably could be used for your situation. I haven't been able to find pricing on this as I believe you have to go through there installer / distributor network.

Hope this information helps!

Full Disclosu
This is market research information from my company as we are developing a "smart" water leak detection system.

Ben Becker
www.CHK2O.com