I have a 1950 era rowhouse, with 100 amps and fuses. New York City. I
haven't had any issues with the power and all the fuses are 15 amps.
There is on 240 volt circut for a large AC unit which is just two of
the 15 amps combined somehow.

Is there any need to upgrade the electric before selling the house?
I've had some people tell me that 200 amps and circuit breakers are
now required. I've hardly ever blown a fuse but can do so by running
the toaster oven at the same time as the microwave. Not always, but I
avoid doing that. In fact I replaced that fuse with a circuit breaker
dressed up as a fuse, which screws in but doesn't need to be replaced
if it pops.

There are two 100 amp fuses in the fuse box (big guys), so perhaps
there is already 200 amps coming in and just 100 are in use?

On 03/04/2014 02:35 PM, dgk wrote:

I have a 1950 era rowhouse, with 100 amps and fuses. New York City. I
haven't had any issues with the power and all the fuses are 15 amps.
There is on 240 volt circut for a large AC unit which is just two of
the 15 amps combined somehow.

Is there any need to upgrade the electric before selling the house?
I've had some people tell me that 200 amps and circuit breakers are
now required. I've hardly ever blown a fuse but can do so by running
the toaster oven at the same time as the microwave. Not always, but I
avoid doing that. In fact I replaced that fuse with a circuit breaker
dressed up as a fuse, which screws in but doesn't need to be replaced
if it pops.

There are two 100 amp fuses in the fuse box (big guys), so perhaps
there is already 200 amps coming in and just 100 are in use?





No, it's 100 amp.

I'd let the next owner upgrade it unless your Realtor does not think you
can sell it in it's current (no pun intended) condition.

mst homeowner insurance companies refuse to provide new insurance for homes with fuses, knob and tube wiring, bad or old roofs, unsafe sidewalks and a long list of other issues.

Just call state farm and random other companies and ask about fuses....

you need to know 90% of buyers wantt a move in ready home , fixer upers limit the mrket to 10% of al;l buyers. You will have to sell cheap

On Tuesday, March 4, 2014 3:35:04 PM UTC-5, dgk wrote:
I have a 1950 era rowhouse, with 100 amps and fuses. New York City. I

haven't had any issues with the power and all the fuses are 15 amps.

There is on 240 volt circut for a large AC unit which is just two of

the 15 amps combined somehow.



Is there any need to upgrade the electric before selling the house?

I've had some people tell me that 200 amps and circuit breakers are

now required.

What's required for new construction doesn't apply to what's
already there. If it complied with the code at the time, then it's
almost certainly legal and doesn't need to be upgraded. That's how
it would work in the vast majority of places. But NYC could have
it's own rules.





I've hardly ever blown a fuse but can do so by running

the toaster oven at the same time as the microwave. Not always, but I

avoid doing that. In fact I replaced that fuse with a circuit breaker

dressed up as a fuse, which screws in but doesn't need to be replaced

if it pops.



There are two 100 amp fuses in the fuse box (big guys), so perhaps

there is already 200 amps coming in and just 100 are in use?


No, that's exactly what a 100 amp service has, ie, two 100 amp fuses.
If it's an old row house with fuses, it's almost certainly not a
200 amp service.

As to whether it's "needed" to upgrade the electric service, I'd
say that depends on a lot of factors. Unless there is some unique
NYC position on the code, the answer is that you aren't required to
do so. Whether it might make sense to do it, that's another issue.
How's the real estate situation? A house with a new upgraded electric
system that you can use as a marketing plus might help it sell faster,
get a better a higher price, etc. Any experience with neighbors you
can learn from? What shape is the rest of the house in? Sometimes new
owners are going to want to do a lot of renovation, gut the kitchen,
etc and if that's the case, then it makes more sense to upgrade the
electric system at that point.

If it were me, unless the electric system was the only thing wrong
and clearly out of line with the rest of the house, I wouldn't upgrade
it. I'd sell it like it is and see what happens. A home inspector
will have something to say about the electric service. And if the
buyer makes that an issue, you can negotiate and give them a discount
to help pay for any work that needs to be done. If I was a buyer, I'd
rather do it that way anyhow. But some buyers might get turned off
and walk away too. Which raises another question, ie do you need to
sell it quick, or if a sale falls through because of this, are you
OK with finding another buyer, etc?

I'd make sure to read the portion of the sales contract that pertains
to inspection. If what is there is code compliant, but a buyer wants
to insist that you put in a new electric service, you want to make sure
there is nothing there that says you *have* to do it. That whole area
is an interesting one. Plenty of buyers back out over something like
that. It would be interesting to see any contracts cases where the
seller said, "screw you, it's code compliant, it works, it's not broken,
I'm not upgrading
it and you have to go through with the purchase. But for practical
reasons, ie the buyers can manage to not get a mortgage, tie you up
for a year while it's litigated, etc, I've never heard of that being done.

Ask for your real estate agent's recommendation. Most buyers wouldn't know a fuse from their elbow and cannot conceive of a place where you can run a toaster and microwave at the same time. Replacing the door knocker may make a bigger difference to them.

There's often a big compulsion to fix something up, just before we let it go, to how we wish it had been while we had it. Don't fall for it. Save the energy for your new place.

Chip C
Toronto

On 03/04/2014 03:42 PM, bob haller wrote:
mst homeowner insurance companies refuse to provide new insurance for homes with fuses, knob and tube wiring, bad or old roofs, unsafe sidewalks and a long list of other issues.

Just call state farm and random other companies and ask about fuses....

you need to know 90% of buyers wantt a move in ready home , fixer upers limit the mrket to 10% of al;l buyers. You will have to sell cheap




Anyone but State Farm. sheesh


I had them come out to inspect my house and give me a quote.

My roof is 20 years old and they would not sell me insurance.

It has a 25 year guarantee and does not leak but that was irrelevant.
They never even looked inside my house.

I could have had a new roof but had open cans of gasoline in the
basement and they would have sold me a policy.

On Tuesday, March 4, 2014 4:51:32 PM UTC-5, Chip C wrote:
Ask for your real estate agent's recommendation. Most buyers wouldn't know a fuse from their elbow and cannot conceive of a place where you can run a toaster and microwave at the same time. Replacing the door knocker may make a bigger difference to them.



That may be true, but probably 90%+ of home sales today involve
having the home inspected and the inspector knows the difference
between a fuse and his elbow, that's where the problem will come from,
if there is a problem.




There's often a big compulsion to fix something up, just before we let it go, to how we wish it had been while we had it. Don't fall for it. Save the energy for your new place.



Chip C

Toronto

I agree. There are two extremes. Some people want to make everything
perfect. Others would sell a car knowing that a mechanic told them
the transmission is shot and they'd lie about it.

In the case of this house, there is important information missing,
ie what the true electrical load is. Electric range? Ovens? WH?
Furnace? Is that one AC sufficient for the whole house or are there
3 other 120V window units, etc.

dgk wrote:
I have a 1950 era rowhouse, with 100 amps and fuses. New York City. I
haven't had any issues with the power and all the fuses are 15 amps.
There is on 240 volt circut for a large AC unit which is just two of
the 15 amps combined somehow.

Is there any need to upgrade the electric before selling the house?
I've had some people tell me that 200 amps and circuit breakers are
now required. I've hardly ever blown a fuse but can do so by running
the toaster oven at the same time as the microwave. Not always, but I
avoid doing that. In fact I replaced that fuse with a circuit breaker
dressed up as a fuse, which screws in but doesn't need to be replaced
if it pops.

There are two 100 amp fuses in the fuse box (big guys), so perhaps
there is already 200 amps coming in and just 100 are in use?

You've made two contradicting statements:

"I haven't had any issues with the power" and "I've hardly ever blown a
fuse but can do so by running the toaster oven at the same time as the
microwave."

If I had to pick and choose which appliance I could use at any given time,
I'd consider it an issue with my power. In fact, when I had that exact
issue, I ran a new circuit to the kitchen so that I would never have that
"issue" again.

Of course, I've popped a breaker or two in my day by doing things like
plugging in 2 heaters at the same time or other one-offs like that, but to
not be able to use multiple "permanent" appliances at the same time would
be an issue, at least to me.

What I see happening is a potential buyer getting an inspection, having it
pointed out that the fuses and service are "minimal" and either asking for
a reduced price or walking away unless there is some compelling reason to
continue negotiations.

DerbyDad03 wrote:
dgk wrote:
I have a 1950 era rowhouse, with 100 amps and fuses. New York City. I
haven't had any issues with the power and all the fuses are 15 amps.
There is on 240 volt circut for a large AC unit which is just two of
the 15 amps combined somehow.

Is there any need to upgrade the electric before selling the house?
I've had some people tell me that 200 amps and circuit breakers are
now required. I've hardly ever blown a fuse but can do so by running
the toaster oven at the same time as the microwave. Not always, but I
avoid doing that. In fact I replaced that fuse with a circuit breaker
dressed up as a fuse, which screws in but doesn't need to be replaced
if it pops.

There are two 100 amp fuses in the fuse box (big guys), so perhaps
there is already 200 amps coming in and just 100 are in use?

You've made two contradicting statements:

"I haven't had any issues with the power" and "I've hardly ever blown a
fuse but can do so by running the toaster oven at the same time as the
microwave."

If I had to pick and choose which appliance I could use at any given time,
I'd consider it an issue with my power. In fact, when I had that exact
issue, I ran a new circuit to the kitchen so that I would never have that
"issue" again.

Of course, I've popped a breaker or two in my day by doing things like
plugging in 2 heaters at the same time or other one-offs like that, but to
not be able to use multiple "permanent" appliances at the same time would
be an issue, at least to me.

What I see happening is a potential buyer getting an inspection, having it
pointed out that the fuses and service are "minimal" and either asking for
a reduced price or walking away unless there is some compelling reason to
continue negotiations.

Hi,
When it comes to selling a house, no matter what the condition of the
house, there will be a buyer if priced right. That is my experience.
I had 5 houses built and sold old houses. Always first looker bought it.
Being reasonable I had it priced wee bit below going price. Often times
seller thinks, his house deserves certain price.(emotional sentiment
thing, I guess) If the OP's place has older electrical wiring, right off
the bat, price should be adjusted accordingly. Most important and
valuable leverage on selling a house is it's location. I always owned a
house with an unobstructed frontal view, like far away mountains, river,
park,etc.

On Tue, 04 Mar 2014 15:37:57 -0600, philo* wrote:

On 03/04/2014 02:35 PM, dgk wrote:

I have a 1950 era rowhouse, with 100 amps and fuses. New York City. I
haven't had any issues with the power and all the fuses are 15 amps.
There is on 240 volt circut for a large AC unit which is just two of
the 15 amps combined somehow.

Is there any need to upgrade the electric before selling the house?
I've had some people tell me that 200 amps and circuit breakers are
now required. I've hardly ever blown a fuse but can do so by running
the toaster oven at the same time as the microwave. Not always, but I
avoid doing that. In fact I replaced that fuse with a circuit breaker
dressed up as a fuse, which screws in but doesn't need to be replaced
if it pops.

There are two 100 amp fuses in the fuse box (big guys), so perhaps
there is already 200 amps coming in and just 100 are in use?





No, it's 100 amp.

I'd let the next owner upgrade it unless your Realtor does not think you
can sell it in it's current (no pun intended) condition.
Quite likely cannot go over 125 or 150 amps anyway without expensive
feed upgrades. Aproxemately $10,000 to put 200 amp in mine (currently
100, underground service), so it will be getting a 125 breaker box in
the spring.

On 03/04/2014 04:52 PM, philo wrote:

Anyone but State Farm. sheesh


I had them come out to inspect my house and give me a quote.

My roof is 20 years old and they would not sell me insurance.

It has a 25 year guarantee and does not leak but that was irrelevant.
They never even looked inside my house.

I could have had a new roof but had open cans of gasoline in the basement and they would have sold me a policy.



Do you have trees near your house?

Insurance companies don't like large trees...especially if they can fall on your house.

On 03/05/2014 04:18 AM, Ed wrote:
On 03/04/2014 04:52 PM, philo wrote:

Anyone but State Farm. sheesh


I had them come out to inspect my house and give me a quote.

My roof is 20 years old and they would not sell me insurance.

It has a 25 year guarantee and does not leak but that was irrelevant.
They never even looked inside my house.

I could have had a new roof but had open cans of gasoline in the
basement and they would have sold me a policy.



Do you have trees near your house?

Insurance companies don't like large trees...especially if they can fall
on your house.



I only had one large tree near the house but that was taken down a few
years ago. A friend of mine does that for a living so I hired him ...me
and another friend served as helpers.

One of the neighbors did not like all the noise and came over to
complain. I thought it very dumb of him to yell at men wielding chain
saws. I sent him home.

On 03/04/2014 07:11 PM, wrote:





No, it's 100 amp.

I'd let the next owner upgrade it unless your Realtor does not think you
can sell it in it's current (no pun intended) condition.
Quite likely cannot go over 125 or 150 amps anyway without expensive
feed upgrades. Aproxemately $10,000 to put 200 amp in mine (currently
100, underground service), so it will be getting a 125 breaker box in
the spring.




Well, I guess that's the advantage to having unsightly out door wires.

If I'd up my present 100 amp service to 200 amps, the power company
would not even charge to run new wires to the house. (I'd of course have
to pay an electrician for the rest)

As a matter of fact, when I had a tree trimmed...we called the power
company and they took down the wires for us and put them back for not
charge.

On Tue, 4 Mar 2014 13:42:35 -0800 (PST), bob haller
wrote:

mst homeowner insurance companies refuse to provide new insurance for homes with fuses, knob and tube wiring, bad or old roofs, unsafe sidewalks and a long list of other issues.

Just call state farm and random other companies and ask about fuses....

you need to know 90% of buyers wantt a move in ready home , fixer upers limit the mrket to 10% of al;l buyers. You will have to sell cheap

In my neighborhood a lot of the homes are simply gutted when sold and
the new owner puts in rooms and apartments. A house a few doors down
has 6 rooms on the first floor - and it's an 18' by 50' house just
like mine. I doesn't make sense to renovate when that is a
possibility. They are, of course, illegal but nobody seems to do
anything about it.

Most of the rooms for rent go to students going to the local college.

On Wednesday, March 5, 2014 9:31:39 AM UTC-5, dgk wrote:
On Tue, 4 Mar 2014 13:42:35 -0800 (PST), bob haller

wrote:



mst homeowner insurance companies refuse to provide new insurance for homes with fuses, knob and tube wiring, bad or old roofs, unsafe sidewalks and a long list of other issues.



Just call state farm and random other companies and ask about fuses....



you need to know 90% of buyers wantt a move in ready home , fixer upers limit the mrket to 10% of al;l buyers. You will have to sell cheap



In my neighborhood a lot of the homes are simply gutted when sold and

the new owner puts in rooms and apartments. A house a few doors down

has 6 rooms on the first floor - and it's an 18' by 50' house just

like mine. I doesn't make sense to renovate when that is a

possibility. They are, of course, illegal but nobody seems to do

anything about it.



Most of the rooms for rent go to students going to the local college.

Then I guess you have your answer on the need to upgrade in order
to sell the house.... If there is a good chance that the new owner
is going to gut or do major renovations, then I sure wouldn't spend money
on upgrading the electrical sysem. That kind of buyer would rather
have the house at a lower price instead of buying an upgraded electrical
system, at least part of which may have to be ripped out again anyhow.

On Tue, 4 Mar 2014 13:46:26 -0800 (PST), "
wrote:

On Tuesday, March 4, 2014 3:35:04 PM UTC-5, dgk wrote:
I have a 1950 era rowhouse, with 100 amps and fuses. New York City. I

haven't had any issues with the power and all the fuses are 15 amps.

There is on 240 volt circut for a large AC unit which is just two of

the 15 amps combined somehow.



Is there any need to upgrade the electric before selling the house?

I've had some people tell me that 200 amps and circuit breakers are

now required.

What's required for new construction doesn't apply to what's
already there. If it complied with the code at the time, then it's
almost certainly legal and doesn't need to be upgraded. That's how
it would work in the vast majority of places. But NYC could have
it's own rules.





I've hardly ever blown a fuse but can do so by running

the toaster oven at the same time as the microwave. Not always, but I

avoid doing that. In fact I replaced that fuse with a circuit breaker

dressed up as a fuse, which screws in but doesn't need to be replaced

if it pops.



There are two 100 amp fuses in the fuse box (big guys), so perhaps

there is already 200 amps coming in and just 100 are in use?


No, that's exactly what a 100 amp service has, ie, two 100 amp fuses.
If it's an old row house with fuses, it's almost certainly not a
200 amp service.

As to whether it's "needed" to upgrade the electric service, I'd
say that depends on a lot of factors. Unless there is some unique
NYC position on the code, the answer is that you aren't required to
do so. Whether it might make sense to do it, that's another issue.
How's the real estate situation? A house with a new upgraded electric
system that you can use as a marketing plus might help it sell faster,
get a better a higher price, etc. Any experience with neighbors you
can learn from? What shape is the rest of the house in? Sometimes new
owners are going to want to do a lot of renovation, gut the kitchen,
etc and if that's the case, then it makes more sense to upgrade the
electric system at that point.

If it were me, unless the electric system was the only thing wrong
and clearly out of line with the rest of the house, I wouldn't upgrade
it. I'd sell it like it is and see what happens. A home inspector
will have something to say about the electric service. And if the
buyer makes that an issue, you can negotiate and give them a discount
to help pay for any work that needs to be done. If I was a buyer, I'd
rather do it that way anyhow. But some buyers might get turned off
and walk away too. Which raises another question, ie do you need to
sell it quick, or if a sale falls through because of this, are you
OK with finding another buyer, etc?

I'd make sure to read the portion of the sales contract that pertains
to inspection. If what is there is code compliant, but a buyer wants
to insist that you put in a new electric service, you want to make sure
there is nothing there that says you *have* to do it. That whole area
is an interesting one. Plenty of buyers back out over something like
that. It would be interesting to see any contracts cases where the
seller said, "screw you, it's code compliant, it works, it's not broken,
I'm not upgrading
it and you have to go through with the purchase. But for practical
reasons, ie the buyers can manage to not get a mortgage, tie you up
for a year while it's litigated, etc, I've never heard of that being done.


In about a year I'm likely to buy a house from an old family friend in
Florida; it's a block away from my aging mother in the same
development, and we'll likely have pretty flexible purchase terms.
After all, I bought my current house from her when she moved to
Florida 25 years ago!

So, it's likely that I'll have a few months to sell my current house
and can pretty much move whenever it gets sold. The only downside is
having to pay maintenance on the Florida house and that's less than
$400 a month.

As for the current house, it's not in great shape. I haven't renovated
the kitchen or bath since I moved in and they both really need it
although everything works fine. So the electric is pretty much in
keeping with the rest of the place. But as I wrote in another post,
most of the houses sold in this neighborhood are illegally converted
to multiple apartments and even furnished rooms. I think renovating
prior to sale is likely unnecessary. I'll get somewhat less than the
top but they can do what they want.

I will look at the contract very carefully - thanks for the warning.

On Tue, 4 Mar 2014 14:07:12 -0800 (PST), "
wrote:

On Tuesday, March 4, 2014 4:51:32 PM UTC-5, Chip C wrote:
Ask for your real estate agent's recommendation. Most buyers wouldn't know a fuse from their elbow and cannot conceive of a place where you can run a toaster and microwave at the same time. Replacing the door knocker may make a bigger difference to them.



That may be true, but probably 90%+ of home sales today involve
having the home inspected and the inspector knows the difference
between a fuse and his elbow, that's where the problem will come from,
if there is a problem.




There's often a big compulsion to fix something up, just before we let it go, to how we wish it had been while we had it. Don't fall for it. Save the energy for your new place.



Chip C

Toronto

I agree. There are two extremes. Some people want to make everything
perfect. Others would sell a car knowing that a mechanic told them
the transmission is shot and they'd lie about it.

In the case of this house, there is important information missing,
ie what the true electrical load is. Electric range? Ovens? WH?
Furnace? Is that one AC sufficient for the whole house or are there
3 other 120V window units, etc.

One 240 unit does the entire main floor - very well. The three
bedrooms (large, small, tiny) each have A/C. I'm not sure all three
have ever been on at the same time but they're on different circuits.

Dryer, water heater, range, and boiler are gas.

On Tue, 04 Mar 2014 22:43:37 -0500, wrote:

On Tue, 04 Mar 2014 15:35:04 -0500, dgk wrote:


I have a 1950 era rowhouse, with 100 amps and fuses. New York City. I
haven't had any issues with the power and all the fuses are 15 amps.
There is on 240 volt circut for a large AC unit which is just two of
the 15 amps combined somehow.

Is there any need to upgrade the electric before selling the house?
I've had some people tell me that 200 amps and circuit breakers are
now required. I've hardly ever blown a fuse but can do so by running
the toaster oven at the same time as the microwave. Not always, but I
avoid doing that. In fact I replaced that fuse with a circuit breaker
dressed up as a fuse, which screws in but doesn't need to be replaced
if it pops.

There are two 100 amp fuses in the fuse box (big guys), so perhaps
there is already 200 amps coming in and just 100 are in use?



There is nothing wrong with fuses. In fact I could build a house
tomorrow morning with a 100 amp fuse box as long as I put S type
adapters in each socket.
Your real issue is that you only seem to have one 15 amp circuit
feeding the kitchen. That is far more than simply swapping out the
panel.
If you are in an old neighborhood with a lot of houses wired like
yours, list it and see how it goes. If you need to upgrade to sell the
house, think about it or just discount the house based on a couple of
estimates that you lay on top of the deal. Most people think they can
beat an estimate if they shop around.

The funny thing is that husband in the family that owned the house
before me (childhood friends of mine) was an electrical engineer and
didn't trust circuit breakers!

Next stop is to clean the place up and invite a broker in for a chat.

On 3/5/2014 8:42 AM, wrote:
....

In my neighborhood a lot of the homes are simply gutted when sold ...

....

Then I guess you have your answer on the need to upgrade in order
to sell the house....
....

+100,000,000,000,...

Put it on the market and see what transpires before committing to
anything more than the bare-bones appearance stuff.

Haller notwithstanding his wont for spreading FUD is nothing moreand
unfortunately his only contribution to ahr...

--

On 3/5/2014 9:29 AM, dpb wrote:
....

Put it on the market and see what transpires before committing to
anything more than the bare-bones appearance stuff.
....

And, of course, talk to a good local realtor to get input -- don't have
to sign up necessarily to interview one and get their appraisal of
market value and saleability with/without work; cosmetic and otherwise...

--

On 3/5/2014 8:59 AM, dgk wrote:
On Tue, 04 Mar 2014 22:43:37 -0500, wrote:
(snipped)

Next stop is to clean the place up and invite a broker in for a chat.


If you actually get a broker as opposed to simply a salesperson you will
be damn lucky. If you do get a broker you will be in a much better
position to negotiate the commission. And yes, in most locations it is
normally negotiable. Don't let them tell you that if they lower the
commission that no other brokers or salespeople will show the property
because that is BS! These people, especially the salespeople, are hungry
and will show it no matter what the commission is if they think that
they can make a sale.

If you interview more than one firm remember that if a firm offers to
list the property at a significantly higher price than the others he/she
is simply trying to get the listing and probably will come back in about
thirty days and suggest that you lower the price. Do NOT tell them what
you are expecting to get for the property but rather let them suggest a
price based on similar sales and then go from there.

Don (who formerly owned a very successful real estate brokerage firm).

philo wrote:
On 03/04/2014 07:11 PM, wrote:





No, it's 100 amp.

I'd let the next owner upgrade it unless your Realtor does not think you
can sell it in it's current (no pun intended) condition.
Quite likely cannot go over 125 or 150 amps anyway without expensive
feed upgrades. Aproxemately $10,000 to put 200 amp in mine (currently
100, underground service), so it will be getting a 125 breaker box in
the spring.




Well, I guess that's the advantage to having unsightly out door wires.

If I'd up my present 100 amp service to 200 amps, the power company would
not even charge to run new wires to the house. (I'd of course have to pay
an electrician for the rest)

As a matter of fact, when I had a tree trimmed...we called the power
company and they took down the wires for us and put them back for not charge.

I can attest to the "no charge" work that the power company will do.

Last winter a branch came down and ripped the wires off the side of my
house. It ripped the insulated connection point out of the wall and tore
some siding. The service wire was still attached at the first clip so I
never lost power or had an unsafe condition. Before I had a chance to
repair it, they replaced our power poles and moved mine about 3 feet,
taking up all the slack in the wires. Now there was no way for me to
reattach it to the house.

I called the power company and said that I needed my power shut off at the
pole so I could replace some siding and hook the wires back onto the house.
I also told them that the wires needed to be extended because of the moved
pole. Two guys showed up and the first thing they did was use a limb
trimmer like this to cut the wires (live) at the pole.

http://www.fhwa.dot.gov/environment/...810/fig034.gif

They looked up at the wires where they were hanging from the house and said
"Would it be easier for you to replace the siding if we cut the wires at
the house also?" I said "Sure!" Then as one guy climbed the ladder and cut
the wires about 2 feet from the house's connection box, the other guy
spliced about 4 feet of wire onto the ends that would be reattached at the
pole. The guy on the ladder screwed a new insulator onto my house above
where I needed to replace the siding, climbed down and said "Call us when
you're done."

I replaced the ripped siding, washed the side of the house, replaced all
the rusted service wire clips, and lagged the connection box to the side of
the house. I called them back, they attached the wires at the pole and at
my house and wouldn't even accept a few bucks for coffee.

There was really no need for them to cut the wires at the house, they only
did it to get them out of my way while I worked on the siding. They
basically doubled their work just to be nice. I was a satisfied customer
and called their office the next day to let them know.

On 03/05/2014 04:30 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
philo wrote:
On 03/04/2014 07:11 PM, wrote:





No, it's 100 amp.

I'd let the next owner upgrade it unless your Realtor does not think you
can sell it in it's current (no pun intended) condition.
Quite likely cannot go over 125 or 150 amps anyway without expensive
feed upgrades. Aproxemately $10,000 to put 200 amp in mine (currently
100, underground service), so it will be getting a 125 breaker box in
the spring.




Well, I guess that's the advantage to having unsightly out door wires.

If I'd up my present 100 amp service to 200 amps, the power company would
not even charge to run new wires to the house. (I'd of course have to pay
an electrician for the rest)

As a matter of fact, when I had a tree trimmed...we called the power
company and they took down the wires for us and put them back for not charge.

I can attest to the "no charge" work that the power company will do.

Last winter a branch came down and ripped the wires off the side of my
house. It ripped the insulated connection point out of the wall and tore
some siding. The service wire was still attached at the first clip so I
never lost power or had an unsafe condition. Before I had a chance to
repair it, they replaced our power poles and moved mine about 3 feet,
taking up all the slack in the wires. Now there was no way for me to
reattach it to the house.

I called the power company and said that I needed my power shut off at the
pole so I could replace some siding and hook the wires back onto the house.
I also told them that the wires needed to be extended because of the moved
pole. Two guys showed up and the first thing they did was use a limb
trimmer like this to cut the wires (live) at the pole.

http://www.fhwa.dot.gov/environment/...810/fig034.gif



Snipped


Real nice of them.
Around here they will also trim branches...no charge....if they are near
the wires. I can call them...but they do come around about once a year
to inspect things.

philo wrote:

....snip...


Real nice of them.
Around here they will also trim branches...no charge....if they are near
the wires. I can call them...but they do come around about once a year to inspect things.

I forgot...One of the guys put a saw on the end of the trimmer after he
dropped the wires and trimmed a few branches also. I remember now because
he left the branches for me to clean up. Now I don't like them anymore. ;-)

On Tue, 04 Mar 2014 15:35:04 -0500, dgk wrote:


I have a 1950 era rowhouse, with 100 amps and fuses. New York City. I
haven't had any issues with the power and all the fuses are 15 amps.
There is on 240 volt circut for a large AC unit which is just two of
the 15 amps combined somehow.

Is there any need to upgrade the electric before selling the house?
I've had some people tell me that 200 amps and circuit breakers are
now required.

None of the regular posters here says he is from NYC. OTOH, getting the
skinny in NYC should be easy, about what is required. The Dept. of
Buildings will know. It's probably on their webpage, but they have a
phone too. .

I wouldnt' take the word of an electrical contractor unless he was my
husband.

I've hardly ever blown a fuse but can do so by running
the toaster oven at the same time as the microwave. Not always, but I
avoid doing that. In fact I replaced that fuse with a circuit breaker
dressed up as a fuse, which screws in but doesn't need to be replaced
if it pops.

There are two 100 amp fuses in the fuse box (big guys), so perhaps
there is already 200 amps coming in and just 100 are in use?

I had a 6 or 6 1/2 room 2 1/2 bath apartment in Brooklyn with only 20
amps for the whole thing and I only blew about one fuse a year. Even
with 3 roommates.

That incuded the last couple years a small AC window unit. I never
used the toaster and the microwave at the same time, but that's because
I don't like toast.

There was a 20 amp fuse in the basement, supplying two 15-amp fuses in
my apartment. I blew one of the 15-amp fuses maybe 4 times in 10
years.

If I can get by on 20 your new owners can get by on 100. And I have
a feeling that 200 is not required, for that very reason.

Don't be like friends of mine here in Baltimore. Their house needed
some work, I agree, some painting, redoing the hardwood floors, etc.
but I told them they should put it on the market right away and if they
got the work done, it would sell quicker or maybe they could even raise
the asking price. But the real estate agent told them to fix it first.
and that took them months, and then the real estate bubble burst and
they couldnt sell it at all, let alone for the asking price. And it
needn't have taken months for the repairs, just add the time for
repairs, the advertising and finding a buyer, and it only needs one day
longer than the bubble lasted. NYC isn't in a bubble afaik, but
other things can go wrong. A fire that makes the next two houses
vacant. Not likely, but I think one should start trying to sell the
house as soon as he's sure he's moving. Or as soon as he has another
place to live, if that will be hard to find. But not waiting to do
repairs, if indeed you do this one.


I just came across this webpage. I don't think the questions apply to
you but the address lookup gives a Property Profile Overview that will
be interesting
http://www.nyc.gov/html/dob/html/cod...rpre2011.shtml

If you move to some address in NYC, I'd defintiely look it up. Anyone
considering buying your house should do so too, if he knows about it.
And you don't want him to learn things you don't even know about.


http://www.lamorteelectric.com/elect...-new-york.html

"Existing houses are "grandfathered" for the most part. The thing is,
any changes you make are required to meet the new standard. "

That is, if you do make a change for whatever reason, your new work has
to meet the new code even though it was acceptable that it didn't meet
it before you started.

"The upside of the new change is a whole new level of safety when it
comes to fire prevention. It also requires the use of child-proof
receptacles. The new receptacles actually work really well, in fact they
work so well it is hard for me to get a tester into them. At the same
time, plugs slide in as easily as ever.

Also most of the circuit breakers in your house need to be "Arc fault
circuit interrupters". They are very high tech, and dramatically reduce
the chance of an electrical fire. They are required on all 110 volt
circuits aside from your, kitchen, bathrooms, unfinished basements, and
outdoors. [Where GFI's are still required, I assume, except maybe
unfinished basements.]

The downside of the new changes is cost. Old breakers started at $3.00,
and the new ones START at $35.00. This adds up to $600-$800 more to
wire up a whole new house. "

On Tue, 4 Mar 2014 13:42:35 -0800 (PST), bob haller
wrote:

mst homeowner insurance companies refuse to provide new insurance for homes with fuses, knob and tube wiring, bad or old roofs, unsafe sidewalks and a long list of other issues.

Do they come and inspect the house or just take the owner's word for it?

Or possbibly just go by when the house was built???

On Tue, 4 Mar 2014 13:51:32 -0800 (PST), Chip C
wrote:

Ask for your real estate agent's recommendation. Most buyers wouldn't know a fuse from their elbow and cannot conceive of a place where you can run a toaster and microwave at the same time. Replacing the door knocker may make a bigger difference to them.

There's often a big compulsion to fix something up, just before we let it go, to how we wish it had been while we had it. Don't fall for it. Save the energy for your new place.

I agree but the problem is, your real estate agent may say to do just
the opposite. Fix it up!

Read my friend's bad experience with trusting the agent's advice.

I would though, ask anyone who looked at the house and didn't buy it,
Why not. if you ask nicely, they'll tell you. Especially in NYC.


Chip C
Toronto

On Tue, 04 Mar 2014 22:43:37 -0500, wrote:



There is nothing wrong with fuses. In fact I could build a house
tomorrow morning with a 100 amp fuse box as long as I put S type
adapters in each socket.

I know what those are, but apparently there is more than one meaning,
since images for s-type adapter electric shows not a one like we
mean.

https://www.google.com/search?q=s-ty...11 52&bih=671

Here's a better page.
http://epb.apogee.net/foe/fsgotsf.asp

Would you put these in even if you were living in the house yourself?

Maybe for your 8-year old son?

Your real issue is that you only seem to have one 15 amp circuit
feeding the kitchen. That is far more than simply swapping out the
panel.
If you are in an old neighborhood with a lot of houses wired like
yours, list it and see how it goes. If you need to upgrade to sell the
house, think about it or just discount the house based on a couple of
estimates that you lay on top of the deal. Most people think they can
beat an estimate if they shop around.

Darn right.

On Wed, 05 Mar 2014 16:50:59 -0600, philo* wrote:

On 03/05/2014 04:30 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
philo wrote:
On 03/04/2014 07:11 PM, wrote:





No, it's 100 amp.

I'd let the next owner upgrade it unless your Realtor does not think you
can sell it in it's current (no pun intended) condition.
Quite likely cannot go over 125 or 150 amps anyway without expensive
feed upgrades. Aproxemately $10,000 to put 200 amp in mine (currently
100, underground service), so it will be getting a 125 breaker box in
the spring.




Well, I guess that's the advantage to having unsightly out door wires.

If I'd up my present 100 amp service to 200 amps, the power company would
not even charge to run new wires to the house. (I'd of course have to pay
an electrician for the rest)

As a matter of fact, when I had a tree trimmed...we called the power
company and they took down the wires for us and put them back for not charge.

I can attest to the "no charge" work that the power company will do.

Last winter a branch came down and ripped the wires off the side of my
house. It ripped the insulated connection point out of the wall and tore
some siding. The service wire was still attached at the first clip so I
never lost power or had an unsafe condition. Before I had a chance to
repair it, they replaced our power poles and moved mine about 3 feet,
taking up all the slack in the wires. Now there was no way for me to
reattach it to the house.

I called the power company and said that I needed my power shut off at the
pole so I could replace some siding and hook the wires back onto the house.
I also told them that the wires needed to be extended because of the moved
pole. Two guys showed up and the first thing they did was use a limb
trimmer like this to cut the wires (live) at the pole.

http://www.fhwa.dot.gov/environment/...810/fig034.gif



Snipped


Real nice of them.
Around here they will also trim branches...no charge....if they are near
the wires. I can call them...but they do come around about once a year
to inspect things.
If the underground fails, they fix it too. But if I request/require
an upgrade, I pay.

mst homeowner insurance companies refuse to provide new insurance for homes with fuses, knob and tube wiring, bad or old roofs, unsafe sidewalks and a long list of other issues.



Do they come and inspect the house or just take the owner's word for it?



Or possbibly just go by when the house was built???

probably a mix of both but they definetely send a inspector out

call some homeowners insurance companies like state farm and ask about a new policy

On Wed, 5 Mar 2014 21:20:50 -0800 (PST), bob haller
wrote:



mst homeowner insurance companies refuse to provide new insurance for homes with fuses, knob and tube wiring, bad or old roofs, unsafe sidewalks and a long list of other issues.



Do they come and inspect the house or just take the owner's word for it?



Or possbibly just go by when the house was built???

probably a mix of both but they definetely send a inspector out


I work in an insurance office every morning - my youngest daughter is
assistant operations manager there.
The broker ( or agent) asks the questions when you apply for
insurance, and the answers are part of your insurance contract. If you
lie, the insurance contract is null and void, and if caught you not
only have no insurance, you can be charged with insurance fraud - and
GOOD LUCK getting anything close to affordable insurance in the
future.

Up here in Canada (specifically Ontario) it's been a long time since
the insurance companies sent an inspector out to all applicants.

On 3/5/2014 11:20 PM, bob haller wrote:


mst homeowner insurance companies refuse to provide new
insurance for homes with fuses, knob and tube wiring, bad or
old roofs, unsafe sidewalks and a long list of other issues.

Do they come and inspect the house or just take the owner's word
for it?

Or possbibly just go by when the house was built???

probably a mix of both but they definetely send a inspector out


My insurance company sent out an inspector when I bought the house,
and has had somebody come by and photograph the property to establish
its condition twice since then. They notify me and send me a copy of
the report.

On Wed, 05 Mar 2014 21:10:23 -0500, micky
wrote:

On Tue, 04 Mar 2014 15:35:04 -0500, dgk wrote:


I have a 1950 era rowhouse, with 100 amps and fuses. New York City. I
haven't had any issues with the power and all the fuses are 15 amps.
There is on 240 volt circut for a large AC unit which is just two of
the 15 amps combined somehow.

Is there any need to upgrade the electric before selling the house?
I've had some people tell me that 200 amps and circuit breakers are
now required.

None of the regular posters here says he is from NYC. OTOH, getting the
skinny in NYC should be easy, about what is required. The Dept. of
Buildings will know. It's probably on their webpage, but they have a
phone too. .

I wouldnt' take the word of an electrical contractor unless he was my
husband.

I've hardly ever blown a fuse but can do so by running
the toaster oven at the same time as the microwave. Not always, but I
avoid doing that. In fact I replaced that fuse with a circuit breaker
dressed up as a fuse, which screws in but doesn't need to be replaced
if it pops.

There are two 100 amp fuses in the fuse box (big guys), so perhaps
there is already 200 amps coming in and just 100 are in use?

I had a 6 or 6 1/2 room 2 1/2 bath apartment in Brooklyn with only 20
amps for the whole thing and I only blew about one fuse a year. Even
with 3 roommates.

That incuded the last couple years a small AC window unit. I never
used the toaster and the microwave at the same time, but that's because
I don't like toast.

There was a 20 amp fuse in the basement, supplying two 15-amp fuses in
my apartment. I blew one of the 15-amp fuses maybe 4 times in 10
years.

If I can get by on 20 your new owners can get by on 100. And I have
a feeling that 200 is not required, for that very reason.

Don't be like friends of mine here in Baltimore. Their house needed
some work, I agree, some painting, redoing the hardwood floors, etc.
but I told them they should put it on the market right away and if they
got the work done, it would sell quicker or maybe they could even raise
the asking price. But the real estate agent told them to fix it first.
and that took them months, and then the real estate bubble burst and
they couldnt sell it at all, let alone for the asking price. And it
needn't have taken months for the repairs, just add the time for
repairs, the advertising and finding a buyer, and it only needs one day
longer than the bubble lasted. NYC isn't in a bubble afaik, but
other things can go wrong. A fire that makes the next two houses
vacant. Not likely, but I think one should start trying to sell the
house as soon as he's sure he's moving. Or as soon as he has another
place to live, if that will be hard to find. But not waiting to do
repairs, if indeed you do this one.


I just came across this webpage. I don't think the questions apply to
you but the address lookup gives a Property Profile Overview that will
be interesting
http://www.nyc.gov/html/dob/html/cod...rpre2011.shtml

If you move to some address in NYC, I'd defintiely look it up. Anyone
considering buying your house should do so too, if he knows about it.
And you don't want him to learn things you don't even know about.


http://www.lamorteelectric.com/elect...-new-york.html

"Existing houses are "grandfathered" for the most part. The thing is,
any changes you make are required to meet the new standard. "

That is, if you do make a change for whatever reason, your new work has
to meet the new code even though it was acceptable that it didn't meet
it before you started.

"The upside of the new change is a whole new level of safety when it
comes to fire prevention. It also requires the use of child-proof
receptacles. The new receptacles actually work really well, in fact they
work so well it is hard for me to get a tester into them. At the same
time, plugs slide in as easily as ever.

Also most of the circuit breakers in your house need to be "Arc fault
circuit interrupters". They are very high tech, and dramatically reduce
the chance of an electrical fire. They are required on all 110 volt
circuits aside from your, kitchen, bathrooms, unfinished basements, and
outdoors. [Where GFI's are still required, I assume, except maybe
unfinished basements.]

The downside of the new changes is cost. Old breakers started at $3.00,
and the new ones START at $35.00. This adds up to $600-$800 more to
wire up a whole new house. "


Thanks!

On Thu, 06 Mar 2014 02:15:23 -0500, wrote:

On Wed, 5 Mar 2014 21:22:31 -0800 (PST), bob haller
wrote:

call some homeowners insurance companies like state farm and ask about a new policy

I doubt any insurance company you have ever heard of even writes
policies in Florida, at least not within 20-30 miles of a coast.


Yes, policies are tough in Florida and I will be within 10 miles of
the coast.