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#1
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Canadian Household Net Worth Increased 44% between 2005-2012, US falls40% Between 2007-2010
In what is an absolutely "on-topic" post for this newsgroup, I can
report the following: - Between 2005 and 2012, the Median Net Worth of Canadian households increased by 44% to $243,800 in 2012. - Between 2007 and 2010, the Median Net Worth of american households DECREASED by almost 30% to a paltry $77,300 in 2010. If anyone can find more recent US numbers (ie - household net-worth for 2012) I dare you to post it. The american dream - Alive and Well in Canada. The american dream is a Canadian reality. The american dream is no longer home ownership. The american dream now is to collect food stamps and social-security disability. ============== February 25, 2014 In a report that takes a long view on the state of Canadian finances, the agency finds that the 2012 medium net worth among family units — of two or more persons — has risen 44.5 per cent since 2005 to $243,800, and almost 80 per cent from 1999. http://news.nationalpost.com/2014/02...ly-since-2005/ =============== Meanwhile in the USA... =============== http://money.cnn.com/2012/06/11/news...ily-net-worth/ Income and net worth fell from 2007 to 2010. NEW YORK (CNNMoney) -- The average American family's net worth dropped almost 40% between 2007 and 2010, according to a triennial study released Monday by the Federal Reserve. The stunning drop in median net worth -- from $126,400 in 2007 to $77,300 in 2010 -- indicates that the recession wiped away 18 years of savings and investment by families. The Fed study, called the Survey of Consumer Finances, offers details on savings, income, debt, as well as assets and investments owned by American families. The results, though more than a year old, highlight the marked deterioration in household finances brought on by the financial crisis and ensuing recession. Much of the drop off in net worth -- to levels not seen since 1992 -- was attributable to a sharp decline in housing values, the Fed said. In 2007, the median homeowner had a net worth of $246,000. Three years later that number had fallen to $174,500, a loss of more than $70,000 on average. Families who reside in the west and south, where the housing market was especially hard hit by the recession, were worse off than their peers in the rest of the country. Making matters worse, income levels also fell during the tumultuous three-year period, with median pre-tax income falling 7.7% as earnings from capital gains all but disappeared. The loss of income and net worth appears to have impacted savings rates, as the number of Americans who said they saved in the prior year fell from 56.4% in 2007 to 52.0% in 2010 -- the lowest level recorded since the early 1990s. ============ |
#2
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Canadian Household Net Worth Increased 44% between 2005-2012, US falls 40% Between 2007-2010
Per Family Guy:
- Between 2007 and 2010, the Median Net Worth of american households DECREASED by almost 30% to a paltry $77,300 in 2010. I'm no economist, but I would expect that number to get significantly worse if/when the mortgage deduction is eliminated or reduced. -- Pete Cresswell |
#3
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Canadian Household Net Worth Increased 44% between 2005-2012,US falls 40% Between 2007-2010
On 2/28/2014 8:57 AM, (PeteCresswell) wrote:
Per Family Guy: - Between 2007 and 2010, the Median Net Worth of american households DECREASED by almost 30% to a paltry $77,300 in 2010. I'm no economist, but I would expect that number to get significantly worse if/when the mortgage deduction is eliminated or reduced. Which I hope is soon but I really doubt that it happens in the foreseeable future. |
#4
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Canadian Household Net Worth Increased 44% between 2005-2012, US falls 40% Between 2007-2010
"Family Guy" wrote in message
In what is an absolutely "on-topic" post for this newsgroup, I can report the following: - Between 2005 and 2012, the Median Net Worth of Canadian households increased by 44% to $243,800 in 2012. - Between 2007 and 2010, the Median Net Worth of american households DECREASED by almost 30% to a paltry $77,300 in 2010. If anyone can find more recent US numbers (ie - household net-worth for 2012) I dare you to post it. The american dream - Alive and Well in Canada. The american dream is a Canadian reality. The american dream is no longer home ownership. The american dream now is to collect food stamps and social-security disability. Also to live somewhere where snowfall isn't measured in feet. Not to mention those invigorating sub-zero temperatures. Here in central Florida we have neither of those; our weather would be improved, however, if Canadians would keep their weather north of the border. And my net worth is a way above the Canadian average, thank you. -- dadiOH ____________________________ Winters getting colder? Tired of the rat race? Taxes out of hand? Maybe just ready for a change? Check it out... http://www.floridaloghouse.net |
#5
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Quote:
In 2012, the Human Development Index ranked the top six countries for quality of living as: Norway, Australia, United States, Netherlands, Germany and New Zealand. That's from: Standard of living - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia So, if Canadians are so well off, why isn't Canada in that list? eh? |
#6
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Canadian Household Net Worth Increased 44% between 2005-2012, US falls40% Between 2007-2010
On Fri, 28 Feb 2014 19:53:10 +0100, nestork
wrote: In 2012, the Human Development Index ranked the top six countries for quality of living as: Norway, Australia, United States, Netherlands, Germany and New Zealand. That's from: 'Standard of living - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia' (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Standard_of_living) So, if Canadians are so well off, why isn't Canada in that list? eh? Nestork=1 Home Guy=0 eh? -- Somtimes you just have a bad day at the dungeon |
#7
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Canadian Household Net Worth Increased 44% between 2005-2012, US falls 40% Between 2007-2010
On Fri, 28 Feb 2014 12:44:27 -0500, "dadiOH"
wrote: And my net worth is a way above the Canadian average, thank you. Right. And our poor are better off than many middle class in other nations like Europe. dadiOH=1 home guy=0 |
#8
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Canadian Household Net Worth Increased 44% between 2005-2012,US falls40% Between 2007-2010
Oren wrote:
On Fri, 28 Feb 2014 19:53:10 +0100, nestork wrote: In 2012, the Human Development Index ranked the top six countries for quality of living as: Norway, Australia, United States, Netherlands, Germany and New Zealand. That's from: 'Standard of living - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia' (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Standard_of_living) So, if Canadians are so well off, why isn't Canada in that list? eh? Nestork=1 Home Guy=0 eh? Hmm, All acting like a little child, we all know that regardless of net worth we know full well we all are under mountain of debt, individually, nationally. Middle class is no more. Net worth? does it matter? You can paly the number game all you want. Quality of living? Depends where you look. Does not mean much. |
#9
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Canadian Household Net Worth Increased 44% between 2005-2012, US falls 40% Between 2007-2010
Per Oren:
And our poor are better off than many middle class in other nations like Europe. Speaking as one with relatives in Germany - who we used to visit every couple years - our relatives were living substantially better than we ever did. My wife and I were computer application developers near Philadelphia PA and the in-laws were truck mechanics about an hour each from Wiesbaden and Frankfurt. They had us beat hands-down: vacation time, health care, quality of houses, education, retirement pay, work week, public infrastructure... you name it. People ask "If it's so great, why don't you move there. My only comeback is "Too many Germans"..... -- Pete Cresswell |
#10
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Canadian Household Net Worth Increased 44% between 2005-2012, US falls 40% Between 2007-2010
On Fri, 28 Feb 2014 17:58:13 -0500, "(PeteCresswell)"
wrote: Per Oren: And our poor are better off than many middle class in other nations like Europe. Speaking as one with relatives in Germany - who we used to visit every couple years - our relatives were living substantially better than we ever did. My wife and I were computer application developers near Philadelphia PA and the in-laws were truck mechanics about an hour each from Wiesbaden and Frankfurt. They had us beat hands-down: vacation time, health care, quality of houses, education, retirement pay, work week, public infrastructure... you name it. People ask "If it's so great, why don't you move there. My only comeback is "Too many Germans"..... I was stationed outside Frankfurt in '71. Interesting place. I was fascinated by the amount of time the Germans had off each week or annually. Nothing like the USA. I suppose now things are different since the European Parliament (EU). Made of 22 member nations - of a half billions people, over 766 MEP's seat. Imagine that election process and the variety of parties. Sounds like Germany is tired of giving money to the lesser nations. Ukraine wants to join or move to a closer political policy as the West has. "The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money." -- Margaret Thatcher -- Definition of a camel: A horse designed by a committee |
#11
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Canadian Household Net Worth Increased 44% between 2005-2012, US falls 40% Between 2007-2010
On Fri, 28 Feb 2014 13:15:42 -0800, Oren wrote:
On Fri, 28 Feb 2014 12:44:27 -0500, "dadiOH" wrote: And my net worth is a way above the Canadian average, thank you. Right. And our poor are better off than many middle class in other nations like Europe. dadiOH=1 home guy=0 I was going to say 40% of an american net worth is a lot more than 40% of a Canadian net worth, because at the same earning level, the American pays a lot less tax, and buying a home is , generally speaking, a lot cheaper in the US - and the interest paid on the mortgage is tax deductible - which it is NOT in Canada. Retail prices of many things, including high end purchases like cars are also lower south of the Can-Am border. |
#12
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Canadian Household Net Worth Increased 44% between 2005-2012, US falls 40% Between 2007-2010
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#13
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Canadian Household Net Worth Increased 44% between 2005-2012, US falls40% Between 2007-2010
On Fri, 28 Feb 2014 15:52:01 -0700, Tony Hwang
wrote: Quality of living? Depends where you look. Does not mean much. Maybe. For me it sure beats living in Calgary, Alberta eh? |
#14
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Canadian Household Net Worth Increased 44% between 2005-2012,US falls40% Between 2007-2010
Oren wrote:
On Fri, 28 Feb 2014 15:52:01 -0700, Tony Hwang wrote: Quality of living? Depends where you look. Does not mean much. Maybe. For me it sure beats living in Calgary, Alberta eh? Hi, Afraid of cold? Tonight it is -40C wind chill. I was out walking my dog. Even our dog(part Husky) is not afraid of cold, LOL! Eh, what? |
#15
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Canadian Household Net Worth Increased 44% between 2005-2012, US falls40% Between 2007-2010
On Fri, 28 Feb 2014 21:47:22 -0700, Tony Hwang
wrote: Oren wrote: On Fri, 28 Feb 2014 15:52:01 -0700, Tony Hwang wrote: Quality of living? Depends where you look. Does not mean much. Maybe. For me it sure beats living in Calgary, Alberta eh? Hi, Afraid of cold? Tonight it is -40C wind chill. I was out walking my dog. Even our dog(part Husky) is not afraid of cold, LOL! Eh, what? 56°F Showers (all day) In the Mohave Desert of all places. Imagine that. |
#16
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Canadian Household Net Worth Increased 44% between 2005-2012, US falls40% Between 2007-2010
In article ,
Oren wrote: On Fri, 28 Feb 2014 15:52:01 -0700, Tony Hwang wrote: Quality of living? Depends where you look. Does not mean much. Maybe. For me it sure beats living in Calgary, Alberta eh? "And, and, and I leave my entire estate of ten million dollars to the people of Calgary so they can afford to move somewhere decent." The Frantics. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5kGUW6M7W0 -- "Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." -- Aaron Levenstein |
#17
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Canadian Household Net Worth Increased 44% between 2005-2012,US falls40% Between 2007-2010
Afraid of cold? Tonight it is -40C wind chill. I was out walking my dog. Even our dog(part Husky) is not afraid of cold, LOL! Eh, what? -35 wind chill here last night with 6" new snow in NW Nebraska and yes I was out filling 6 bird feeders and shoveling 3" of snow form earlier. |
#18
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Canadian Household Net Worth Increased 44% between 2005-2012,US falls40% Between 2007-2010
Oren wrote:
On Fri, 28 Feb 2014 21:47:22 -0700, Tony Hwang wrote: Oren wrote: On Fri, 28 Feb 2014 15:52:01 -0700, Tony Hwang wrote: Quality of living? Depends where you look. Does not mean much. Maybe. For me it sure beats living in Calgary, Alberta eh? Hi, Afraid of cold? Tonight it is -40C wind chill. I was out walking my dog. Even our dog(part Husky) is not afraid of cold, LOL! Eh, what? 56°F Showers (all day) In the Mohave Desert of all places. Imagine that. Hi, Used to go down to PHX a lot, like second home down there. When my work lasted longer than a month I could bring down family, so we stayed in rented apt. often. |
#19
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Canadian Household Net Worth Increased 44% between 2005-2012, US falls 40% Between 2007-2010
Per Oren:
I was stationed outside Frankfurt in '71. Interesting place. I was fascinated by the amount of time the Germans had off each week or annually. Nothing like the USA. My take is that, in Germany -and Europe in general - the benefits productivity increases was at least split between workers and business owners... but in the USA, the benefits of productivity increases went exclusively to business owners. -- Pete Cresswell |
#20
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Canadian Household Net Worth Increased 44% between 2005-2012, US falls40% Between 2007-2010
"Tony Hwang" wrote in message
Hmm, All acting like a little child, we all know that regardless of net worth we know full well we all are under mountain of debt, individually, nationally. Nope, haven't had any personal debt for 23 years. Other then the mortgage then, none since 1976. No current mortgage, two (large) houses and acreage free and clear. ______________ Middle class is no more. Odd, I know many middle class people. ________________ Net worth? does it matter? It does to me. I find it comforting to know that neither my (younger) wife nor I will ever be out on the street. ________________ You can paly the number game all you want. Quality of living? Depends where you look. Does not mean much. Obviously, your mileage varies... -- dadiOH ____________________________ Winters getting colder? Tired of the rat race? Taxes out of hand? Maybe just ready for a change? Check it out... http://www.floridaloghouse.net |
#21
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Canadian Household Net Worth Increased 44% between 2005-2012, US falls40% Between 2007-2010
"Oren" wrote in message
On Fri, 28 Feb 2014 21:47:22 -0700, Tony Hwang wrote: Oren wrote: On Fri, 28 Feb 2014 15:52:01 -0700, Tony Hwang wrote: Quality of living? Depends where you look. Does not mean much. Maybe. For me it sure beats living in Calgary, Alberta eh? Hi, Afraid of cold? Tonight it is -40C wind chill. I was out walking my dog. Even our dog(part Husky) is not afraid of cold, LOL! Eh, what? 56°F Showers (all day) In the Mohave Desert of all places. Imagine that. It's for the brine shrimp -- dadiOH ____________________________ Winters getting colder? Tired of the rat race? Taxes out of hand? Maybe just ready for a change? Check it out... http://www.floridaloghouse.net |
#22
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Canadian Household Net Worth Increased 44% between 2005-2012, US falls 40% Between 2007-2010
(PeteCresswell) wrote:
Per Oren: I was stationed outside Frankfurt in '71. Interesting place. I was fascinated by the amount of time the Germans had off each week or annually. Nothing like the USA. My take is that, in Germany -and Europe in general - the benefits productivity increases was at least split between workers and business owners... but in the USA, the benefits of productivity increases went exclusively to business owners. As I understand it, German law requires substantial represnetation from labor on corporate boards. |
#23
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Canadian Household Net Worth Increased 44% between 2005-2012, US falls 40% Between 2007-2010
Per Bob F:
My take is that, in Germany -and Europe in general - the benefits productivity increases was at least split between workers and business owners... but in the USA, the benefits of productivity increases went exclusively to business owners. As I understand it, German law requires substantial represnetation from labor on corporate boards. I didn't want to muddy the water by going there.... but my impression is that just about every worker in Germany belongs to a union. At one point, my #2 daughter and one of my German nephews worked essentially the same job: in a travel agency. The nephew, of course, belonged to a union; and the daughter, of course, did not. The nephew got paid for overtime, six weeks vacation, lunch breaks, a living wage, medical coverage, pension plan, and so-on and so-forth. The daughter had to work overtime but did not get paid for it. Not only that, but they didn't even get fed at mealtimes.... they just had to skip dinner and keep working until they were allowed to leave. *Then* they got to eat. Needless to say, no vacation time, no medical coverage, and very close to minimum wage. -- Pete Cresswell |
#24
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Canadian Household Net Worth Increased 44% between 2005-2012, US falls 40% Between 2007-2010
(PeteCresswell) wrote:
Per Bob F: My take is that, in Germany -and Europe in general - the benefits productivity increases was at least split between workers and business owners... but in the USA, the benefits of productivity increases went exclusively to business owners. As I understand it, German law requires substantial represnetation from labor on corporate boards. I didn't want to muddy the water by going there.... but my impression is that just about every worker in Germany belongs to a union. At one point, my #2 daughter and one of my German nephews worked essentially the same job: in a travel agency. The nephew, of course, belonged to a union; and the daughter, of course, did not. The nephew got paid for overtime, six weeks vacation, lunch breaks, a living wage, medical coverage, pension plan, and so-on and so-forth. The daughter had to work overtime but did not get paid for it. Not only that, but they didn't even get fed at mealtimes.... they just had to skip dinner and keep working until they were allowed to leave. *Then* they got to eat. Needless to say, no vacation time, no medical coverage, and very close to minimum wage. Which is exactly where we're headed if the repubs and their Koch brother benefactors get their way. |
#25
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Canadian Household Net Worth Increased 44% between 2005-2012, US falls 40% Between 2007-2010
Per Bob F:
Which is exactly where we're headed if the repubs and their Koch brother benefactors get their way. My feeling has always been that a balance of power is essential. Unions want to bleed the employers dry by not working and taking every dime. OTOH employers (at least corporate employers...) in their heart of hearts want to work people 24-7, feed them just enough to get the right amount of work out of them, and then sell the bodies for fertilizer. Sanity lies somewhere in the middle and you need unions - however bad they might be - to achieve that balance of power. Otherwise we're going to continue on the long slide down that we're already on. -- Pete Cresswell |
#26
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Canadian Household Net Worth Increased 44% between 2005-2012, US falls 40% Between 2007-2010
In article ,
"(PeteCresswell)" wrote: Sanity lies somewhere in the middle and you need unions - however bad they might be - to achieve that balance of power. Otherwise we're going to continue on the long slide down that we're already on. Since unions topped out as %age of workers 60 years ago and has been downhill ever since and since the best time for workers was arguably in the 70s and 80s, it is really hard to suggest unions had all that much to do with it. -- "Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." -- Aaron Levenstein |
#27
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Canadian Household Net Worth Increased 44% between 2005-2012, US falls 40% Between 2007-2010
Per Kurt Ullman:
Since unions topped out as %age of workers 60 years ago and has been downhill ever since and since the best time for workers was arguably in the 70s and 80s, it is really hard to suggest unions had all that much to do with it. I'm just looking at the contrast between people in my family doing the same jobs in the USA and in Germany (where unions are pretty much universal). The difference in pay, working conditions, and benefits is just huge. I had my own little experience working for a large electric company. We had a vote on whether to unionize and the workers voted unions down. Before that, the company had unionization hanging over it's head and life was pretty good - mainly, I think, because they didn't want to give employees a reason to unionize. Once unionization was no longer on the horizon, things deteriorated quickly. Before they made me an offer I couldn't refuse, we were all made to understand that, among other things, we were expected to work no less than 50 hours a week - for 40 hours pay. There's plenty more in that vein, but the bottom line is that once they knew there was no danger of a union coming in, they tightened the screws without mercy - and kept tightening them. But that was just one anecdote from one person. The USA-Germany thing is what really formed my opinion. -- Pete Cresswell |
#28
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Canadian Household Net Worth Increased 44% between 2005-2012, US falls 40% Between 2007-2010
In article ,
"(PeteCresswell)" wrote: Per Kurt Ullman: Since unions topped out as %age of workers 60 years ago and has been downhill ever since and since the best time for workers was arguably in the 70s and 80s, it is really hard to suggest unions had all that much to do with it. I'm just looking at the contrast between people in my family doing the same jobs in the USA and in Germany (where unions are pretty much universal). The difference in pay, working conditions, and benefits is just huge. A lot of that is related to the fact that these aren't (American) unions. They tend to be part of the board (that hasn't ended well in the US see one of the many United Airlines), there is much less of an adversarial stance on both sides, they work together instead of both being out to get as much (or as little) as possible without any real interest in the long term health of either. There's plenty more in that vein, but the bottom line is that once they knew there was no danger of a union coming in, they tightened the screws without mercy - and kept tightening them. Which is exactly when the union talk should have started back up. This isn't a one and done type of thing. But that was just one anecdote from one person. The USA-Germany thing is what really formed my opinion. -- "Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." -- Aaron Levenstein |
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