Oren wrote:
On Thu, 06 Feb 2014 20:50:14 -0600, philo wrote:

snip

Do not be offended by the suggestion to not drain it.

In the future, at install (new unit) , before connection or filling
with water - remove the plastic parts and install a brass quarter turn
ball valve.

More reading here

http://www.wral.com/why-draining-you...take/12282424/

In all my years I never had a tank leak while living in a home as a
renter or as home owner. Retired and then thought, I have the "time
to do this now". Bang. Weeks or less later; the tank leaked.

As to youtube videos, in some instances - they are outright dangerous
and deadly if you follow them.

...'if it ain't broke don't fix it"

The only leak I've ever experienced was when a tank rusted out and spewed
water into the flue.

It was a strange leak. I first noticed a small amount of water on _top_ of
the WH. I felt my way up the hot and cold pipes but couldn't find any
leaking connections. I then thought water was leaking down the chimney to
which the flue was connected, but it hadn't rained in days, so that
couldn't be it. I dried up the water but it was back the next day.

I finally discovered the cause when I was heard a hissing sound coming from
the WH. When the tank heated up it sprayed water into the center flue where
the hot exhaust carried it up to the cone cap that the flue ducting was
attached to. Once it hit the cap, which is wider than the flue hole, it
dripped back down on top of the WH.

Replacement time!

On Fri, 07 Feb 2014 10:49:50 -0500, micky
wrote:

On Thu, 06 Feb 2014 21:20:24 -0800, Oren wrote:

On Thu, 06 Feb 2014 20:50:14 -0600, philo* wrote:

snip

Do not be offended by the suggestion to not drain it.

In the future, at install (new unit) , before connection or filling
with water - remove the plastic parts and install a brass quarter turn
ball valve.

More reading here

http://www.wral.com/why-draining-you...take/12282424/

This is about a gas water heater. The OP still hasn't said what kind of
WH he has.

Oh, from the picture I think it's electric. The picture url showed 4
pictures and now for 6 minutes keeps saying Fetching more pictures,
which the red and blue thing spins around. ???

I reloaded and I refetched, and I even held down the shif key while I
reloaded, and i still only get those 5 pictures. Only a picture from
the top of the spigot. Not from the side.

It looks to me like he ought to be able to get the hose on with no
cutting of the pan and no adapter.

On Thu, 6 Feb 2014 20:44:35 -0600, Oren wrote
(in article ):

On Thu, 6 Feb 2014 20:16:10 -0600, James wrote:

Here are pics

http://www.flickr.com/photos/ladedah...7640609873985/

Thanks. If you remove the PVC fitting from the pan, is the hole
large enough to pass a hose through and connect to the brass bib?

Your hose bib is brass, where mine is plastic (not even a bib, but
plastic sticking out horizontal) - more chances for leaks after the
valve is opened.

Oh I see. Didn't quite understand what the bib part was. Thought it was the
entire spout assembly.

On Fri, 7 Feb 2014 06:05:44 -0600, wrote
(in article ):

On Thursday, February 6, 2014 9:44:35 PM UTC-5, Oren wrote:
On Thu, 6 Feb 2014 20:16:10 -0600, James wrote:



Here are pics



http://www.flickr.com/photos/ladedah...7640609873985/



Thanks. If you remove the PVC fitting from the pan, is the hole

large enough to pass a hose through and connect to the brass bib?



Given that the drain hole is offset from the bib, I don't see
how that solves his problem. I think his best bet is one of
the 90 deg elbows that you can find in the garden section. If
that won't go on, then another choice would be to just cut
the pan with a sawzall, bend out the lip and when done, bend
it back and silicone it up real good. Maybe put a piece of
aluminum tap on the outside, silicone on the inside.
Another choice would be to unscrew the bib 1/4 turn, but I wouldn't
do that because there's a decent chance it's going to leak, even
if he screws it back.

You have to hand it to Whirpool and the installer. One was
dumb enough to ship it that way and the other to install it in
a pan. A drain that low should have been aligned sideways to
make it easy to get a hose on.


I could possibly remove the pan fitting and pass a hose through but may not
be able to screw it onto the spout without kinking it if I can get it on at
all. I considered something similar to what you suggested. That seems like
it would be a good solution.

When I had the home inspected for purchase the inspector dinged the seller
for no drain pan. So this is what I wound up with.

On Friday, February 7, 2014 10:15:20 AM UTC-5, micky wrote:
On Thu, 6 Feb 2014 18:13:34 -0600, James wrote:





Most water heaters develop a small leak at first. That's what the drain

pan is for.



Or a bigger leak if you route the drain on the pan to someplace where

the water can go without creating damage.



It's in an inside closet along with my washer and dryer no floor drain or

anything



So ruin a garden hose to an outside room and run it out the window. If

the end is below the bottom of the water heater, it will siphon out

almost the last little bit of water, which might be bad if there is a

lot of sediment. So don't go so low . If the end of the hose is 2

inches above the bottom of the WH, it will stop siphoning when the water

in the WH is 2 inches above the bottom.


If you don't want the water to pour down to the ground outside, get a

second hose and put a funnel in the mouth of it and let the first hose

drain into the funnel. That will break the vacuum stop the siphoning

at the level of the exit of the first hose, wherever that is. Hold

everything to your window with some strings. Kite string is fine.

In what you're replying to he's talking about a *permansent* connection
to the drain pain in case it leaks, not about draining the water heater.
So a hose out the bedroom window doesn't sound like a viable solution.
And he cant't get a garden hose on the bibb to begin with,
that was the intitial question, because it's too close to
the floor and the pan lip is in the way.

On Friday, February 7, 2014 10:19:38 AM UTC-5, micky wrote:
On Thu, 6 Feb 2014 19:03:14 -0600, James wrote:



On Wed, 5 Feb 2014 19:53:10 -0600, micky wrote

(in article ):



On Wed, 5 Feb 2014 19:37:42 -0600, James wrote:



Hi All,



My water heater is sitting in a drain pan. I don't see how I can drain it

without elevating it above the lip of the drain pan to attach a hose. It

was that way when I bought the house. Any advice on what to do appreciated.



James



Connect a drain pipe. Is it a round drain pan, intended for water

heaters? There should be no need to elevate anything. If it's not

round, it might just be a pan.



Every drain pan I've seen has a place close to the floor to attach a 2"

drain pipe, plastic or something. Have you looked around the whole

circumference?



You're right. Without a drain pipe, it will just drain four inches from

where it would have without a pan. Although I think I have seen such

an installation.







Yeah there is a plastic drain pipe on the side of the pan. Missed seeing it

due to its position.



Where does it go?

From what he's described, it doesn't go anywhere. He's apparently
talking about just the fact that the drain pan has the connection
on it to connect it to some drain if you choose to connect it.



If it goes nowhere, you can still put a garden hose

in it and tape it up with duck tape for draining, and run it to the

window.


Duck tape? In a closet in a living space that also has the
washer and dryer it it? Sounds like a prscription for disaster.
If he wants to do that, he can surely make up the proper pipe
connections to attache a garden hose to the pan. And if he
has a lower point to route it to, it will work. Thes siphoning
part I'm not too keen on as you'd have to somehow pefectly manage
the flow rate out of the heater to equal the siphoning rate.
If it draws air, he has to start all over.

Plus, I believe he indicated that the reason he wanted to
drain it was to flush it. In which case, the pan thing is
useless, because you want full force water coming out to wash
the sediment out.





Don't open up the drain spigot so much that the hose can't handle it,

the water rises to the top of the lip.


See above.





Or you can put the garden hose right on the threaded spigot.



Did you even read the original question? Look at the pic?




Why do you want to drain the WH. Everyone here says not to do so,

because the spigot will get clogged. I've never done it, in 31 years

here.

I believe he indicated it was so he could periodically flush it.

On Friday, February 7, 2014 11:03:04 AM UTC-5, James wrote:
On Thu, 6 Feb 2014 20:44:35 -0600, Oren wrote

(in article ):



On Thu, 6 Feb 2014 20:16:10 -0600, James wrote:



Here are pics



http://www.flickr.com/photos/ladedah...7640609873985/



Thanks. If you remove the PVC fitting from the pan, is the hole

large enough to pass a hose through and connect to the brass bib?



Your hose bib is brass, where mine is plastic (not even a bib, but

plastic sticking out horizontal) - more chances for leaks after the

valve is opened.



Oh I see. Didn't quite understand what the bib part was. Thought it was the

entire spout assembly.

The bibb is what you'd call the "spout assembly". Many of them today
are plastic, it looks like yours is bronze, which is better.

On Friday, February 7, 2014 10:38:46 AM UTC-5, micky wrote:
On Wed, 5 Feb 2014 19:37:42 -0600, James wrote:



Hi All,



My water heater is sitting in a drain pan. I don't see how I can drain it

without elevating it above the lip of the drain pan to attach a hose. It



How high is the drain pan?



How high is the spigot?



How much bigger than the diameter of the WH is the diameter of the pan,

where the spigot is? EVen if the hose goes down at first and then UP

to go over the pan lip, as long as the end of the hose is lower than the

water level in the WH, the WH will drain.



But why do you want to drain it? What problem do you hope to solve?



All those questions have been addressed, he even posted pics.

I thought
draining the water heater periodically was proper maintenance to remove
sediment in the bottom

What do you care if there is sediment on the bottom? It only matters if
the sediment is so deep it starts to surround the lower electric heating
element. Do you even have an electric WH? Or gas?

Assume it's electric. I have that too. When I, probably mistaking
thermostat or element problems for something more serious, junked my 8yo
WH. I cut it open and there was less than 2 tablespoons of sediment.
At that rate it would have taken over 80 years for the sediment to reach
the heating element.

Water varies by location. You need to talk to your neighbors and find
out if they ever drain the WH, how often and how much sediment comes
out. Some of them don't drain it, that's for sure. How long do their
WH's last. In the 10 years I've been reading, no one in this group has
ever reported good results from draining the WH, curing an existing
problem without creating a bigger problem. What they say often
happens is sediment gets in the drain valve, the pressure and flow are
not enough to flush the sediment out, and the valve won't shut tight
anymore and is always dripping hot water and the WH has to be replaced.



I flush my gas water heater once a year. I don't drain it, but leave supply
on full and open the drain valve full to a hose going out a door to an
exterior sidewalk. I see ~1/2 cup of white mineral chips spread out on the
sidewalk when I'm done. In a gas heater I assume that the chips would have
remained on the bottom of the tank and slowed heat transfer to the water
mass. When I have a faucet aerator with reduced flow, I pull it off and
find those same white chips clogging the screen. My municipal system gets
the tail end of the Colorado river before we send it into Mexico, so the
dissolved solids can be very high at the end of the summer.


and it will need to replaced eventually anyway. In
reality it will have to be drained at some point

Why?

When it leaks it will drain itself. Why do you need to drain it before
then?

, so I do not understand the
snide remark or the questions about why I want to drain it. I'm here to
learn things.

Thank you for trying to be helpful

On Fri, 7 Feb 2014 09:35:16 -0800 (PST), "
wrote:

On Friday, February 7, 2014 10:15:20 AM UTC-5, micky wrote:
On Thu, 6 Feb 2014 18:13:34 -0600, James wrote:





Most water heaters develop a small leak at first. That's what the drain

pan is for.



Or a bigger leak if you route the drain on the pan to someplace where

the water can go without creating damage.



It's in an inside closet along with my washer and dryer no floor drain or

anything



So ruin a garden hose to an outside room and run it out the window. If

the end is below the bottom of the water heater, it will siphon out

almost the last little bit of water, which might be bad if there is a

lot of sediment. So don't go so low . If the end of the hose is 2

inches above the bottom of the WH, it will stop siphoning when the water

in the WH is 2 inches above the bottom.


If you don't want the water to pour down to the ground outside, get a

second hose and put a funnel in the mouth of it and let the first hose

drain into the funnel. That will break the vacuum stop the siphoning

at the level of the exit of the first hose, wherever that is. Hold

everything to your window with some strings. Kite string is fine.

In what you're replying to he's talking about a *permansent* connection

I don't think he is.

to the drain pain in case it leaks, not about draining the water heater.
So a hose out the bedroom window doesn't sound like a viable solution.

But he knows better than you or I what he wants. He can surely figure
out if my answer is a "viable solution". It's good of you to pre-read
and pre-think for him, but I don't think he needs the help.

And he cant't get a garden hose on the bibb to begin with,
that was the intitial question, because it's too close to
the floor and the pan lip is in the way.

That wasn't the issue in the immediately preceding posts.

On Friday, February 7, 2014 2:00:14 PM UTC-5, micky wrote:
On Fri, 7 Feb 2014 09:35:16 -0800 (PST), "

wrote:



On Friday, February 7, 2014 10:15:20 AM UTC-5, micky wrote:

On Thu, 6 Feb 2014 18:13:34 -0600, James wrote:











Most water heaters develop a small leak at first. That's what the drain



pan is for.







Or a bigger leak if you route the drain on the pan to someplace where



the water can go without creating damage.







It's in an inside closet along with my washer and dryer no floor drain or



anything







So ruin a garden hose to an outside room and run it out the window. If



the end is below the bottom of the water heater, it will siphon out



almost the last little bit of water, which might be bad if there is a



lot of sediment. So don't go so low . If the end of the hose is 2



inches above the bottom of the WH, it will stop siphoning when the water



in the WH is 2 inches above the bottom.





If you don't want the water to pour down to the ground outside, get a



second hose and put a funnel in the mouth of it and let the first hose



drain into the funnel. That will break the vacuum stop the siphoning



at the level of the exit of the first hose, wherever that is. Hold



everything to your window with some strings. Kite string is fine.



In what you're replying to he's talking about a *permanent* connection



I don't think he is.



See, that's why you're wandering in the wilderness. You can't
follow a thread:

Another poster:
Most water heaters develop a small leak at first. That's what the drain
pan is for.


Me:
Or a bigger leak if you route the drain on the pan to someplace where
the water can go without creating damage.

James (OP):

It's in an inside closet along with my washer and dryer no floor drain or
anything


And from that you don't think that we're talking about the
permanent type of drain connection you have with many of these
pans? He's said that the pan has a drain fitting, but it's
not connected to anything. Good grief.



to the drain pain in case it leaks, not about draining the water heater.

So a hose out the bedroom window doesn't sound like a viable solution.



But he knows better than you or I what he wants. He can surely figure

out if my answer is a "viable solution". It's good of you to pre-read

and pre-think for him, but I don't think he needs the help.



You dumb ass, he told you what he has and what the question is.
He even posted a pic. And he further clarified that he was
interested in draining it for routine flushing maintenance.
And here you are 2 days and 30 posts later
not understanding that the problem is he wants to drain the water
heater and that with the location of the bibb and pan lip, he
can't get a hose on it. Further, just draining it into the
pan with your siphoning arrangement, aside from being impractical,
I don't think is going to accomplish anything in terms of
flushing it, to get deposits out. When I've done that, draining
it didn't do much at all. You had to have the drain wide open
and cycle the cold water full on and off, stirring it up. And even
then it took a long time and a lot of water to get to the point
where white particles
were no longer coming out. I don't see how he's going to do that
with your siphon idea. But, hell, I guess I should just shut up
and let folks who can't even follow the quetion asked, the context,
or the thread give solutions that would be a waste of his time.



And he cant't get a garden hose on the bibb to begin with,

that was the intitial question, because it's too close to

the floor and the pan lip is in the way.



That wasn't the issue in the immediately preceding posts.

Do try to pay attention. It was clearly the only problem that he
asked about, starting in the very first post.

On Fri, 7 Feb 2014 09:49:50 -0600, micky wrote
(in article ):

On Thu, 06 Feb 2014 21:20:24 -0800, Oren wrote:

On Thu, 06 Feb 2014 20:50:14 -0600, philo* wrote:

snip

Do not be offended by the suggestion to not drain it.

In the future, at install (new unit) , before connection or filling
with water - remove the plastic parts and install a brass quarter turn
ball valve.

More reading here

http://www.wral.com/why-draining-you...be-a-mistake/1
2282424/

This is about a gas water heater. The OP still hasn't said what kind of
WH he has.

Oh, from the picture I think it's electric. The picture url showed 4
pictures and now for 6 minutes keeps saying Fetching more pictures,
which the red and blue thing spins around. ???

Yes, it's electric.


In all my years I never had a tank leak while living in a home as a
renter or as home owner. Retired and then thought, I have the "time
to do this now". Bang. Weeks or less later; the tank leaked.

As to youtube videos, in some instances - they are outright dangerous
and deadly if you follow them.

...'if it ain't broke don't fix it"

On Fri, 7 Feb 2014 09:37:07 -0600, micky wrote
(in article ):

On Thu, 6 Feb 2014 18:51:37 -0600, James wrote:



That may not be possible in this particular situation but the pans are
cheap
so if I have to kill it I won't be ****ed. Never lived in a house that had
a
drain pan under the water heater so I was kinda surprised.

People, and vendors, are always trying to improve our standard of
living. Even if men don't care, women don't like it when every 20
years there is 40 or 50 gallons of water on the floor.

I thought
draining the water heater periodically was proper maintenance to remove
sediment in the bottom

What do you care if there is sediment on the bottom? It only matters if
the sediment is so deep it starts to surround the lower electric heating
element. Do you even have an electric WH? Or gas?

Assume it's electric. I have that too. When I, probably mistaking
thermostat or element problems for something more serious, junked my 8yo
WH. I cut it open and there was less than 2 tablespoons of sediment.
At that rate it would have taken over 80 years for the sediment to reach
the heating element.

Water varies by location. You need to talk to your neighbors and find
out if they ever drain the WH, how often and how much sediment comes
out. Some of them don't drain it, that's for sure. How long do their
WH's last. In the 10 years I've been reading, no one in this group has
ever reported good results from draining the WH, curing an existing
problem without creating a bigger problem. What they say often
happens is sediment gets in the drain valve, the pressure and flow are
not enough to flush the sediment out, and the valve won't shut tight
anymore and is always dripping hot water and the WH has to be replaced.


Very good points. I do not intend to waste time doing anything I don't need
to that may make things worse. I lived in another house near where I live
now (same water supply). Sediment was pretty bad in that home's w/h but I do
not know how long the w/h was sitting before I drained it. IIRC there was
about 2 cups of crap in it. Luckily the valve didn't leak when I was done.
Could have replaced it if it did I suppose.

and it will need to replaced eventually anyway. In
reality it will have to be drained at some point

Why?

When it leaks it will drain itself. Why do you need to drain it before
then?


I see your point. But if it starts leaking just a little bit I won't have
the time to power it off, shut off the supply and babysit it until it drains
out by itself without a hose. Now if it suddenly starts leaking a quart a
minute and I am away then I will have bigger problems (I'm exaggerating of
course).
I just wanted to see if there was a way to get a hose on it without tearing
up the pan or causing other problems. I won't drain it just for the sake of
doing it if it's really not needed.

, so I do not understand the
snide remark or the questions about why I want to drain it. I'm here to
learn things.

Thank you for trying to be helpful

On Fri, 7 Feb 2014 09:19:38 -0600, micky wrote
(in article ):

On Thu, 6 Feb 2014 19:03:14 -0600, James wrote:

On Wed, 5 Feb 2014 19:53:10 -0600, micky wrote
(in article ):

On Wed, 5 Feb 2014 19:37:42 -0600, James wrote:

Hi All,

My water heater is sitting in a drain pan. I don't see how I can drain
it
without elevating it above the lip of the drain pan to attach a hose.
It
was that way when I bought the house. Any advice on what to do
appreciated.

James

Connect a drain pipe. Is it a round drain pan, intended for water
heaters? There should be no need to elevate anything. If it's not
round, it might just be a pan.

Every drain pan I've seen has a place close to the floor to attach a 2"
drain pipe, plastic or something. Have you looked around the whole
circumference?

You're right. Without a drain pipe, it will just drain four inches from
where it would have without a pan. Although I think I have seen such
an installation.



Yeah there is a plastic drain pipe on the side of the pan. Missed seeing
it
due to its position.

Where does it go? If it goes nowhere, you can still put a garden hose
in it and tape it up with duck tape for draining, and run it to the
window.

Don't open up the drain spigot so much that the hose can't handle it,
the water rises to the top of the lip.

Or you can put the garden hose right on the threaded spigot.

Why do you want to drain the WH. Everyone here says not to do so,
because the spigot will get clogged. I've never done it, in 31 years
here.

Very good advice. I hadn't thought of that. Sometimes the easiest things to
do aren't entirely obvious to me. As I've explained, I thought periodic
draining of a w/h was important. This is the first time anyone has ever said
otherwise and there are good reasons not to, apparently. Hope we can put
this thread to rest now

On Friday, February 7, 2014 5:11:07 PM UTC-5, James wrote:
On Fri, 7 Feb 2014 09:37:07 -0600, micky wrote

(in article ):



On Thu, 6 Feb 2014 18:51:37 -0600, James wrote:







That may not be possible in this particular situation but the pans are

cheap

so if I have to kill it I won't be ****ed. Never lived in a house that had

a

drain pan under the water heater so I was kinda surprised.



People, and vendors, are always trying to improve our standard of

living. Even if men don't care, women don't like it when every 20

years there is 40 or 50 gallons of water on the floor.



I thought

draining the water heater periodically was proper maintenance to remove

sediment in the bottom



What do you care if there is sediment on the bottom? It only matters if

the sediment is so deep it starts to surround the lower electric heating

element. Do you even have an electric WH? Or gas?



Assume it's electric. I have that too. When I, probably mistaking

thermostat or element problems for something more serious, junked my 8yo

WH. I cut it open and there was less than 2 tablespoons of sediment.

At that rate it would have taken over 80 years for the sediment to reach

the heating element.



Water varies by location. You need to talk to your neighbors and find

out if they ever drain the WH, how often and how much sediment comes

out. Some of them don't drain it, that's for sure. How long do their

WH's last. In the 10 years I've been reading, no one in this group has

ever reported good results from draining the WH, curing an existing

problem without creating a bigger problem. What they say often

happens is sediment gets in the drain valve, the pressure and flow are

not enough to flush the sediment out, and the valve won't shut tight

anymore and is always dripping hot water and the WH has to be replaced.





Very good points. I do not intend to waste time doing anything I don't need

to that may make things worse. I lived in another house near where I live

now (same water supply). Sediment was pretty bad in that home's w/h but I do

not know how long the w/h was sitting before I drained it. IIRC there was

about 2 cups of crap in it. Luckily the valve didn't leak when I was done.

Could have replaced it if it did I suppose.



and it will need to replaced eventually anyway. In

reality it will have to be drained at some point



Why?



When it leaks it will drain itself. Why do you need to drain it before

then?





I see your point. But if it starts leaking just a little bit I won't have

the time to power it off, shut off the supply and babysit it until it drains

out by itself without a hose. Now if it suddenly starts leaking a quart a

minute and I am away then I will have bigger problems (I'm exaggerating of

course).

I just wanted to see if there was a way to get a hose on it without tearing

up the pan or causing other problems. I won't drain it just for the sake of

doing it if it's really not needed.



, so I do not understand the

snide remark or the questions about why I want to drain it. I'm here to

learn things.



Thank you for trying to be helpful



One thing I would do. Given that the WH is in a closet, I
would get two of those $10 battery water alarms that they
have at HD, etc. Put one in the WH pan and the other
one by the washing machine that's also there. They have
contacts on the bottom and the alarm goes off from water.
Since the pan is metal, you'll have to put a piece of
plastic or similar on the bottom for it to sit on.

BTW, another thought came to mind. We talked about the pan
having a drain connection. Is that at least closed off?
I don't remember from the pic. If not, I would tend to that
too. With it closed off, at least the pan will hold 2" of
water or so. It should have a pvc fitting that you can
cap off or whatever.

On Fri, 7 Feb 2014 16:11:07 -0600, James wrote:


Water varies by location. You need to talk to your neighbors and find
out if they ever drain the WH, how often and how much sediment comes
out. Some of them don't drain it, that's for sure. How long do their
WH's last. In the 10 years I've been reading, no one in this group has
ever reported good results from draining the WH, curing an existing
problem without creating a bigger problem.

Well someone just did, I think (I read it 6 hours ago), in this very
thread.

What they say often
happens is sediment gets in the drain valve, the pressure and flow are
not enough to flush the sediment out, and the valve won't shut tight
anymore and is always dripping hot water and the WH has to be replaced.


Very good points. I do not intend to waste time doing anything I don't need
to that may make things worse. I lived in another house near where I live
now (same water supply). Sediment was pretty bad in that home's w/h but I do
not know how long the w/h was sitting before I drained it. IIRC there was
about 2 cups of crap in it. Luckily the valve didn't leak when I was done.
Could have replaced it if it did I suppose.

People also told bad stories about trying to replace the valve. I'm 67.
I forget what their problems were!

and it will need to replaced eventually anyway. In
reality it will have to be drained at some point

Why?

When it leaks it will drain itself. Why do you need to drain it before
then?


I see your point. But if it starts leaking just a little bit I won't have
the time to power it off, shut off the supply and babysit it until it drains
out by itself without a hose. Now if it suddenly starts leaking a quart a
minute and I am away then I will have bigger problems (I'm exaggerating of
course).

This all matters if there is a relationship between draining the tank
and not having a leak. That webpage someone posted talked about hot
spots caused by sediment, and holes caused by hotspots, but that applies
only to gas wh's. Electric wh's have the heating element in the midst
of the water, no flames at all (on a good day), and even the problem
with sediment covering the heating element was just...... I don't
remember but it wasn't a leak I don't think.

The solution for a big leak when you're away is a pan with a drain that
goes somewhere.

Ironically, if you had no pan, and it leaked a little at first, you'd
have a better chance of seeing it, especially if it ran out under the
door. But by having a pan with a drain, I think it's much less likely
someone will notice that first small leak.

They also make water detectors, that buzz when the water reaches the two
contact points. I had one in the laundry sink for a while withthe
buzzer under the kitchen sink. Got to be two much trouble to change
batteries.

When I had an initial small leak, it was right after the condensation
from my AC had driblled all over the laudry room basement floor.
Usually that amount of water dried in a day or two. It didnt' this time
but I didnt' put 2 and 2 together until several days later, I got a
flood, though just in the unfinished room. After that I put in a pan
and ran a plastic pipe to the sump, so the sump pump will pump away any
water from an initial slow leak, and maybe from the bigger leak that
comes later. Though I really have no idea how fast that leak is. Does
it really jump up from slow to fast without going through a little
faster and a little faster yet. Of course I might not notice that
either. Maybe my 2" pipe will be enough, even at maximum leaking.


I just wanted to see if there was a way to get a hose on it without tearing
up the pan or causing other problems. I won't drain it just for the sake of
doing it if it's really not needed.

, so I do not understand the
snide remark or the questions about why I want to drain it. I'm here to
learn things.

Thank you for trying to be helpful

On Fri, 7 Feb 2014 09:22:03 -0600, micky wrote
(in article ):

On Thu, 6 Feb 2014 18:26:31 -0600, James wrote:


If the need is just for routine maintenance, if it came to
cutting the pan, I think I just wouldn't drain it. Another
factor is, how old is it? If it's a 10 year old gas heater
and it hasn't been drained, it's nearing typical end of life
point anyway.

There is actually a hole in the pan with a pvc fitting in it but it's
turned
at an angle to the heater spout and the spout points downward so it doesn't
look like there's enough room for an angle fitting.

There's not supposed to be a connection between the "spout" and the
hole. Water falls out of the spout, starrts to fill the pan, and then
runs out of the pan.

There's supposed to be a connection between the hole and a drain or a
sump. .

No place to drain it from the pan hole. Only drain in there is for the
clothes washer Would have to connect a hose to outside afaict.

On Fri, 7 Feb 2014 09:15:20 -0600, micky wrote
(in article ):

On Thu, 6 Feb 2014 18:13:34 -0600, James wrote:


Most water heaters develop a small leak at first. That's what the drain
pan is for.

Or a bigger leak if you route the drain on the pan to someplace where
the water can go without creating damage.

It's in an inside closet along with my washer and dryer no floor drain or
anything

So ruin a garden hose to an outside room and run it out the window. If
the end is below the bottom of the water heater, it will siphon out
almost the last little bit of water, which might be bad if there is a
lot of sediment. So don't go so low . If the end of the hose is 2
inches above the bottom of the WH, it will stop siphoning when the water
in the WH is 2 inches above the bottom.

If you don't want the water to pour down to the ground outside, get a
second hose and put a funnel in the mouth of it and let the first hose
drain into the funnel. That will break the vacuum stop the siphoning
at the level of the exit of the first hose, wherever that is. Hold
everything to your window with some strings. Kite string is fine.

Got it. Thanks!

On Fri, 7 Feb 2014 13:47:38 -0600, wrote
(in article ):

On Friday, February 7, 2014 2:00:14 PM UTC-5, micky wrote:
On Fri, 7 Feb 2014 09:35:16 -0800 (PST), "

wrote:



On Friday, February 7, 2014 10:15:20 AM UTC-5, micky wrote:

On Thu, 6 Feb 2014 18:13:34 -0600, James wrote:











Most water heaters develop a small leak at first. That's what the
drain



pan is for.







Or a bigger leak if you route the drain on the pan to someplace where



the water can go without creating damage.







It's in an inside closet along with my washer and dryer no floor drain
or



anything







So ruin a garden hose to an outside room and run it out the window. If



the end is below the bottom of the water heater, it will siphon out



almost the last little bit of water, which might be bad if there is a



lot of sediment. So don't go so low . If the end of the hose is 2



inches above the bottom of the WH, it will stop siphoning when the water



in the WH is 2 inches above the bottom.





If you don't want the water to pour down to the ground outside, get a



second hose and put a funnel in the mouth of it and let the first hose



drain into the funnel. That will break the vacuum stop the siphoning



at the level of the exit of the first hose, wherever that is. Hold



everything to your window with some strings. Kite string is fine.



In what you're replying to he's talking about a *permanent* connection



I don't think he is.



See, that's why you're wandering in the wilderness. You can't
follow a thread:

Another poster:
Most water heaters develop a small leak at first. That's what the drain
pan is for.


Me:
Or a bigger leak if you route the drain on the pan to someplace where
the water can go without creating damage.

James (OP):

It's in an inside closet along with my washer and dryer no floor drain or
anything


And from that you don't think that we're talking about the
permanent type of drain connection you have with many of these
pans? He's said that the pan has a drain fitting, but it's
not connected to anything. Good grief.



to the drain pain in case it leaks, not about draining the water heater.

So a hose out the bedroom window doesn't sound like a viable solution.



But he knows better than you or I what he wants. He can surely figure

out if my answer is a "viable solution". It's good of you to pre-read

and pre-think for him, but I don't think he needs the help.



You dumb ass, he told you what he has and what the question is.
He even posted a pic. And he further clarified that he was
interested in draining it for routine flushing maintenance.
And here you are 2 days and 30 posts later
not understanding that the problem is he wants to drain the water
heater and that with the location of the bibb and pan lip, he
can't get a hose on it. Further, just draining it into the
pan with your siphoning arrangement, aside from being impractical,
I don't think is going to accomplish anything in terms of
flushing it, to get deposits out. When I've done that, draining
it didn't do much at all. You had to have the drain wide open
and cycle the cold water full on and off, stirring it up. And even
then it took a long time and a lot of water to get to the point
where white particles
were no longer coming out. I don't see how he's going to do that
with your siphon idea. But, hell, I guess I should just shut up
and let folks who can't even follow the quetion asked, the context,
or the thread give solutions that would be a waste of his time.



And he cant't get a garden hose on the bibb to begin with,

that was the intitial question, because it's too close to

the floor and the pan lip is in the way.



That wasn't the issue in the immediately preceding posts.

Do try to pay attention. It was clearly the only problem that he
asked about, starting in the very first post.

Thank you for clearly stating what it was I wanted to do ie power flush and a
way to get the water outside given what I have to deal with. This thread
should have only been a few posts long

On Fri, 7 Feb 2014 16:20:33 -0600, James wrote:

As I've explained, I thought periodic
draining of a w/h was important. This is the first time anyone has ever said
otherwise and there are good reasons not to, apparently. Hope we can put
this thread to rest now

Couple of weeks ago I ran across a Youtube video made by a plumber. He
demonstrated the procedure to drain the WH. He addressed sediment
concerns, etc.

He implied, based of water hardness, to drain the WH twice a month -
all the way up to several times a year. Until the water runs clear.
With no more sediment coming out of the hose.

No way would I bother to drain the WH. I have hard water (some of the
hardest in the country). I do have a water softener for the hard
water, but still, I never drain them based on the one time I did and
the leaks started.

On Fri, 7 Feb 2014 17:40:41 -0600, James wrote:

This thread
should have only been a few posts long

....but good the future

posted for all of us...

And I know how to SNIP


On Friday, February 7, 2014 5:11:07 PM UTC-5, James wrote:
On Fri, 7 Feb 2014 09:37:07 -0600, micky wrote

(in article ):



On Thu, 6 Feb 2014 18:51:37 -0600, James wrote:







That may not be possible in this particular situation but the pans are

cheap

so if I have to kill it I won't be ****ed. Never lived in a house that had

a

drain pan under the water heater so I was kinda surprised.



People, and vendors, are always trying to improve our standard of

living. Even if men don't care, women don't like it when every 20

years there is 40 or 50 gallons of water on the floor.



I thought

draining the water heater periodically was proper maintenance to remove

sediment in the bottom



What do you care if there is sediment on the bottom? It only matters if

the sediment is so deep it starts to surround the lower electric heating

element. Do you even have an electric WH? Or gas?



Assume it's electric. I have that too. When I, probably mistaking

thermostat or element problems for something more serious, junked my 8yo

WH. I cut it open and there was less than 2 tablespoons of sediment.

At that rate it would have taken over 80 years for the sediment to reach

the heating element.



Water varies by location. You need to talk to your neighbors and find

out if they ever drain the WH, how often and how much sediment comes

out. Some of them don't drain it, that's for sure. How long do their

WH's last. In the 10 years I've been reading, no one in this group has

ever reported good results from draining the WH, curing an existing

problem without creating a bigger problem. What they say often

If you have a monitored alarm system you can add this to it. Then it would also be good for washer
hoses...

--
Tekkie

On Fri, 7 Feb 2014 16:20:33 -0600, James wrote:



Why do you want to drain the WH. Everyone here says not to do so,
because the spigot will get clogged. I've never done it, in 31 years
here.

Very good advice. I hadn't thought of that. Sometimes the easiest things to
do aren't entirely obvious to me. As I've explained, I thought periodic
draining of a w/h was important.

A lot of people have said that on this very ng, and it must have been
true a few years ago, and maybe for the previous 80. I'm not sure
what changed, water heaters, water, or people. .

This is the first time anyone has ever said
otherwise and there are good reasons not to, apparently. Hope we can put
this thread to rest now

On Fri, 7 Feb 2014 16:20:33 -0600, James wrote:


Why do you want to drain the WH. Everyone here says not to do so,
because the spigot will get clogged. I've never done it, in 31 years
here.

And maybe if my father had lived longer, he would have taught me to
drain the WH. But he didn't and he didn't.

The first 10 years here I had no internet, and it never occured to me to
drain ir. Year 13 or so, the wh leaked and the directions for the new
one didn't mention draining, afaicr.

Very good advice. I hadn't thought of that. Sometimes the easiest things to
do aren't entirely obvious to me. As I've explained, I thought periodic
draining of a w/h was important. This is the first time anyone has ever said
otherwise and there are good reasons not to, apparently. Hope we can put
this thread to rest now

On Fri, 7 Feb 2014 16:50:15 -0600, James wrote:

On Fri, 7 Feb 2014 09:22:03 -0600, micky wrote
(in article ):

On Thu, 6 Feb 2014 18:26:31 -0600, James wrote:


If the need is just for routine maintenance, if it came to
cutting the pan, I think I just wouldn't drain it. Another
factor is, how old is it? If it's a 10 year old gas heater
and it hasn't been drained, it's nearing typical end of life
point anyway.

There is actually a hole in the pan with a pvc fitting in it but it's
turned
at an angle to the heater spout and the spout points downward so it doesn't
look like there's enough room for an angle fitting.

There's not supposed to be a connection between the "spout" and the
hole. Water falls out of the spout, starrts to fill the pan, and then
runs out of the pan.

There's supposed to be a connection between the hole and a drain or a
sump. .

No place to drain it from the pan hole.

What do other people in the building do? What did the guy who did the
home inspection expect the owner to do? It surely wasn't what he did.

Don't ask the people right underneath you. If you do and then you don't
do what they say, they'll know you didn't do it if and when the flood
comes.

Only drain in there is for the
clothes washer Would have to connect a hose to outside afaict.

I noticed that, and it's four feet high, not the best place to put the
drain for a wh that's 4.5 feet high.

And I suppose I should mention that the instructions for washing
machines say to turn the water off when not in use. The hardware store
guy said he sold loads of replacement rubber hoses, when they burst. He
talked me in to woven stainless steel clad rubber hoses, which are much
much less likely to burst, though mine started to leak a bit at the end
when it was twitsted the wrong way.

On Friday, February 7, 2014 11:03:40 PM UTC-5, micky wrote:
On Fri, 7 Feb 2014 16:50:15 -0600, James wrote:



On Fri, 7 Feb 2014 09:22:03 -0600, micky wrote

(in article ):



On Thu, 6 Feb 2014 18:26:31 -0600, James wrote:





If the need is just for routine maintenance, if it came to

cutting the pan, I think I just wouldn't drain it. Another

factor is, how old is it? If it's a 10 year old gas heater

and it hasn't been drained, it's nearing typical end of life

point anyway.



There is actually a hole in the pan with a pvc fitting in it but it's

turned

at an angle to the heater spout and the spout points downward so it doesn't

look like there's enough room for an angle fitting.



There's not supposed to be a connection between the "spout" and the

hole. Water falls out of the spout, starrts to fill the pan, and then

runs out of the pan.



There's supposed to be a connection between the hole and a drain or a

sump. .



No place to drain it from the pan hole.



What do other people in the building do?

Live there with him I guess. Again, he did say it was a
*house* in the very first post.




What did the guy who did the

home inspection expect the owner to do? It surely wasn't what he did.


That's a good question. Probably just said "WH missing drain pan"
and the seller just put one in himself that goes no where, or
got some hack to do it. I think it's code that there needs to be
a drain to somewhere for a WH installed in a living space.
Sounds like the seller got away with the $10 DIY fix instead of the
$500 or whatever solution that was really required.




Don't ask the people right underneath you. If you do and then you don't

do what they say, they'll know you didn't do it if and when the flood

comes.



What? He has an illegal apartment down there? I guess
I missed that part.




Only drain in there is for the

clothes washer Would have to connect a hose to outside afaict.



I noticed that, and it's four feet high, not the best place to put the

drain for a wh that's 4.5 feet high.



Now you're on the right track....

On Wed, 5 Feb 2014 19:37:42 -0600, James wrote:

Hi All,

My water heater is sitting in a drain pan. I don't see how I can drain it
without elevating it above the lip of the drain pan to attach a hose. It
was that way when I bought the house. Any advice on what to do appreciated.

James

They do sell 90degree elbows for garden hoses. Is there room for one of
those? If you need to raise the heater, it wont be easy when it's
filled. But it can be done. Of course all the pipes will need to be
shortened on top. Bricks work good under a heater to raise it, but use
the solid gray ones, not the red or colored ones with holes, because
those tend to crack.

They do sell 90degree elbows for garden hoses. Is there room for one of

those? If you need to raise the heater, it wont be easy when it's

filled. But it can be done. Of course all the pipes will need to be

shortened on top. Bricks work good under a heater to raise it, but use

the solid gray ones, not the red or colored ones with holes, because

those tend to crack.

empty tank before moving and if the tank is more than a few years old just wait till it leaks, before messing with it...

water weighs 8 pounds per gallon, so a 40 gallon WH has 320 pounds of water in it plus the weight of the tank, total with fittings probably near 500 pounds