OK, the old paint is pretty much scraped off with the aid of Jason stripper.

Will try a final sanding with my home sander. Not up for renting a monster.

Then I need to apply a (preferably) thick layer of something to even out what minor irregularities might be left. Have been give 4 different suggestions for such an application.

To level any irregularities that might survive [product] I'm thinking of stamping an unobtrusive design into it while wet.

Does such a stamp exist? I see plenty of CONCRETE stamps on-line. Would they work with [product] as well? Any experience out there?

After [product] is spread, leveled, [stamped] and dried, I will apply a good quality primer and then 2 coats of paint. I hate it that oil-based is unavailable in CA!

You opinion welcome on:

1. "Leveling" product to apply

2. Feasibility of design stamp.

TIA

HB

There is a product available up here in Canada at Home Hardware stores
that gives a very durable "stone" finish. - Called BeautyTone
Flex-Rock. Also Beauti-tone Granite and Hard-rock.

Has to be something similar available in the USA and Cali.

On Fri, 8 Nov 2013 09:31:34 -0800 (PST), Higgs Boson
wrote:

OK, the old paint is pretty much scraped off with the aid of Jason stripper.

Will try a final sanding with my home sander. Not up for renting a monster.

Then I need to apply a (preferably) thick layer of something to even out what minor irregularities might be left. Have been give 4 different suggestions for such an application.

To level any irregularities that might survive [product] I'm thinking of stamping an unobtrusive design into it while wet.

Does such a stamp exist? I see plenty of CONCRETE stamps on-line. Would they work with [product] as well? Any experience out there?

After [product] is spread, leveled, [stamped] and dried, I will apply a good quality primer and then 2 coats of paint. I hate it that oil-based is unavailable in CA!

You opinion welcome on:

1. "Leveling" product to apply

2. Feasibility of design stamp.

TIA

HB

On Friday, November 8, 2013 12:31:34 PM UTC-5, Higgs Boson wrote:
OK, the old paint is pretty much scraped off with the aid of Jason stripper.



Will try a final sanding with my home sander. Not up for renting a monster.



Then I need to apply a (preferably) thick layer of something to even out what minor irregularities might be left. Have been give 4 different suggestions for such an application.



To level any irregularities that might survive [product] I'm thinking of stamping an unobtrusive design into it while wet.



Does such a stamp exist? I see plenty of CONCRETE stamps on-line. Would they work with [product] as well? Any experience out there?



All the concrete stamping I've ever seen relied on using
actual concrete. We don't know what the product is you intend
on using to even out the surface, but I would think there
are a lot of reasons why you're not going to be able to stamp
it. Stamping relies on the concrete being firm enough to
keep the pattern. Is the leveiling product that firm? Stamping needs
considerable depth, depending on the pattern, probably
around 1/4". Stamping uses a release agent that gets sprinkled
on top. Is that compatible with the product?, if not, what
keeps the leveling product from sticking to the stamp, etc. Unless
you find something specific that's made to work with your leveling
product, I think the general concrete stamping method isn't going
to work and is likely to be a mess.

On Friday, November 8, 2013 3:38:51 PM UTC-8, wrote:
On Friday, November 8, 2013 12:31:34 PM UTC-5, Higgs Boson wrote:

OK, the old paint is pretty much scraped off with the aid of Jason stripper.







Will try a final sanding with my home sander. Not up for renting a monster.







Then I need to apply a (preferably) thick layer of something to even out what minor irregularities might be left. Have been give 4 different suggestions for such an application.







To level any irregularities that might survive [product] I'm thinking of stamping an unobtrusive design into it while wet.







Does such a stamp exist? I see plenty of CONCRETE stamps on-line. Would they work with [product] as well? Any experience out there?







All the concrete stamping I've ever seen relied on using

actual concrete. We don't know what the product is you intend

on using to even out the surface, but I would think there

are a lot of reasons why you're not going to be able to stamp

it. Stamping relies on the concrete being firm enough to

keep the pattern. Is the leveiling product that firm? Stamping needs

considerable depth, depending on the pattern, probably

around 1/4". Stamping uses a release agent that gets sprinkled

on top. Is that compatible with the product?, if not, what

keeps the leveling product from sticking to the stamp, etc. Unless

you find something specific that's made to work with your leveling

product, I think the general concrete stamping method isn't going

to work and is likely to be a mess.

Thanks for the caution against stamping a non-concrete product. Appreciate it.

You wrote: We don't know what the product is you intend on using to even out the surface...

That's exactly what's holding up the job. As I said above, I've had suggestions for 4 different products. Not listing them here because not sure about the expertise of the suggesters. Don;t want to put time & $$ into something unsuitable for the situation.

Would rather hear from you experienced folks. Looking for: Layer of ??? to even out surface before applying primer and paint.

TIA

HB

Indoors, the obvious choice would be a cement based floor levelling compound, but those are meant for indoor applications.

I can't think of anything that you could spread smoothly over concrete that would stand up well outdoors. Especially with it getting wet and being walked on. The only thing that seems to come to mind is more concrete.

When you buy bags of redimix cement, it'll tell you on the bag how thin it can be spread. That thickness will simply be the size of the largest stones in the mix. You can buy redimix cement that doesn't have any stones in it that's mean to be "feather edged", or spread very thin. But, as with all concretes, you need a bonding agent to bond the new concrete to the old. Home Depot and every hardware store should sell concrete bonding agent. Theoretically, that bonding agent is supposed to become moisture-proof after a while so that rain or snow melt won't cause it to dissolve.

So, if you're dead set on spreading something over what you have, then I'd use a redimix cement that's meant to be spread thin. That is, one with no stones in it. But, I would paint the existing concrete with a concrete bonding agent first to ensure the new concrete sticks to the old concrete. Nowadays, with concrete bonding agents, you pretty well need to spread the new concrete on before the bonding agent dries, so you pretty well need to do small sections; one at a time. Either that, or use a 10 inch paint roller to paint on the concrete bonding agent, and have a helper mix your concrete for you.

Instead of trying to level this concrete, why not glue an indoor/outdoor carpet down over what you have. Carpet is extremely forgiving of rough surfaces. And, flooring adhesives are generally much easier to remove than paints, especially oil based, polyurethane or epoxy paints. Most times, the flooring adhesive will dissolve in lacquer thinner, and the lacquer thinner will evaporate without leaving any residue.

I would consider installing some indoor outdoor carpet over your porch, and I'm thinking that would solve a lot of your problems all at the same time.

On Friday, November 8, 2013 6:47:29 PM UTC-5, Higgs Boson wrote:
On Friday, November 8, 2013 3:38:51 PM UTC-8, wrote:

On Friday, November 8, 2013 12:31:34 PM UTC-5, Higgs Boson wrote:



OK, the old paint is pretty much scraped off with the aid of Jason stripper.















Will try a final sanding with my home sander. Not up for renting a monster.















Then I need to apply a (preferably) thick layer of something to even out what minor irregularities might be left. Have been give 4 different suggestions for such an application.















To level any irregularities that might survive [product] I'm thinking of stamping an unobtrusive design into it while wet.















Does such a stamp exist? I see plenty of CONCRETE stamps on-line. Would they work with [product] as well? Any experience out there?















All the concrete stamping I've ever seen relied on using



actual concrete. We don't know what the product is you intend



on using to even out the surface, but I would think there



are a lot of reasons why you're not going to be able to stamp



it. Stamping relies on the concrete being firm enough to



keep the pattern. Is the leveiling product that firm? Stamping needs



considerable depth, depending on the pattern, probably



around 1/4". Stamping uses a release agent that gets sprinkled



on top. Is that compatible with the product?, if not, what



keeps the leveling product from sticking to the stamp, etc. Unless



you find something specific that's made to work with your leveling



product, I think the general concrete stamping method isn't going



to work and is likely to be a mess.



Thanks for the caution against stamping a non-concrete product. Appreciate it.



You wrote: We don't know what the product is you intend on using to even out the surface...



That's exactly what's holding up the job. As I said above, I've had suggestions for 4 different products. Not listing them here because not sure about the expertise of the suggesters. Don;t want to put time & $$ into something unsuitable for the situation.



Would rather hear from you experienced folks. Looking for: Layer of ??? to even out surface before applying primer and paint.



TIA



HB

I don't have any experience in doing it either. But for a leveling
type product to deal with 1/8" or so imperfections, my first thought
would be a thick enough coat of a relatively thin expoxy. If necessary.
you can thin out epoxy to some degree with solvents to get the consistency
you need. The tradeoff is that the more solvent, the less strength
the epoxy will have. But in your application, strength isn't critical.
Epoxy also has some flexibility, which is actually increased by solvent,
so that it won't crack.

The downside is that epoxy is relatively expensive. There are also
the epoxy products specifically made for garage floors, etc. Don't
know how they help level, but worth a look.

If this porch is exposed to direct sunshine, I'd be careful of the colour of paint you paint it with.

Paint gets both it's gloss (or, rather, lack of gloss) and colour from tiny particles added to it either at the factory or at the point of sale. The coloured particles added to paint to give it colour fall into two catagories;
organic pigments and inorganic pigments.

The organic pigments are particles produced from chemicals in laboratories. These tend to be all the colourwheel colours, like red, blue and yellow, and all the intermediates you can make from red, blue and yellow like purple, orange and green.

The inorganic pigments are really the modern synthetic equivalent of the coloured rocks that artists like Da Vinci and Michaelangelo have been pulverizing into find powders to colour their paints for centuries. The pigment, Sienna, for example, is a mustard yellow colour and is made by pulverizing the mustard yellow rocks found in and around the Italian town of Siena. The synthetic equivalent of Sienna is called "Yellow Oxide" and you can find yellow oxide in one of the canisters of every paint tinting machine in North America.

Rocks are good at being opaque, but they're far better at being old. But, let's face it, anything that is 300 million years old HAS TO BE EXTREMELY CHEMICALLY STABLE. Otherwise it would have decomposed by now. That extreme chemical stability manifests itself in the fact that rocks don't fade from exposure to the Sun. For example, the red planet Mars is red because or all the iron oxide in the rocks on it's surface. Mars is the same colour as the rust on my car and has been exactly that same colour for the past 5 billion years despite it being exposed to direct intense sunlight 24/7.

So, if this porch is going to be exposed to direct sunlight, then buy whatever paint you intend to use from any paint store that also deals with industrial coatings, and deal with their industrial coatings sales person. That person will be able to tell you which of the colourants in their paint tinting machine are basically the modern day synthetic equivalent of pulverized rocks. Tinting your paint with those pigments will ensure that your paint won't fade so that in the future, you can paint over any chipping or flaking of the porch without having to paint the whole thing to get a uniform colour.

Besides Yellow Oxide mentioned above, other inorganic pigments used to tint paint a
1. Red Oxide, which is really just ground up rust. It's reddish brown in colour.
2. Brown Oxide, which is milk chocolate brown in colour,
3. Raw Umber, which is such a dark brown that it can be mistaken for black.
4. White, which in interior paints will be titanium dioxide. In exterior paints zinc oxide is used instead of titanium dioxide cuz titanium dioxide tends to promote chaulking in exterior paints. Zinc oxide doesn't provide as good hide as titanium oxide, but it doesn't promote chaulking and acts as a natural biocide to help prevent mildew growth on exterior paints.
5. Black which is actually soot. It's made by burning natural gas in special furnaces with insufficient oxygen to produce copious amounts of soot.

If you use a paint that calls for only inorganic pigments in it's tint formula, the paint you get will not fade from exposure to the Sun. However, it may still discolour with age due to chaulking or any other deterioration of the binder in the paint. The colour of the pigments in the paint won't fade any more than rocks of similar colour would fade due to exposure to the Sun.

On 11/8/2013 12:31 PM, Higgs Boson wrote:
OK, the old paint is pretty much scraped off with the aid of Jason stripper.

Will try a final sanding with my home sander. Not up for renting a monster.

Then I need to apply a (preferably) thick layer of something to even out what minor irregularities might be left. Have been give 4 different suggestions for such an application.

To level any irregularities that might survive [product] I'm thinking of stamping an unobtrusive design into it while wet.

Does such a stamp exist? I see plenty of CONCRETE stamps on-line. Would they work with [product] as well? Any experience out there?

After [product] is spread, leveled, [stamped] and dried, I will apply a good quality primer and then 2 coats of paint. I hate it that oil-based is unavailable in CA!

You opinion welcome on:

1. "Leveling" product to apply

2. Feasibility of design stamp.

TIA

HB


Painted concrete scares me because it can be very slippery; bad idea, imo.

Never used this, but it looks good on paper:
http://www.quikrete.com/PDFs/Project...ngConcrete.pdf

"Higgs Boson" wrote in message


Then I need to apply a (preferably) thick layer of
something to even out what minor irregularities might be
left.

How thick and over what?

I hate it that oil-based is unavailable in CA!

Glidden says that its poly/alkyd Porch & Floor enamel is sold by Home Depot
stores in California.

--

dadiOH
____________________________

Winters getting colder? Tired of the rat race?
Taxes out of hand? Maybe just ready for a change?
Check it out... http://www.floridaloghouse.net

On Friday, November 8, 2013 8:54:49 PM UTC-5, nestork wrote:
If this porch is exposed to direct sunshine, I'd be careful of the

colour of paint you paint it with.



Paint gets both it's gloss (or, rather, lack of gloss) and colour from

tiny particles added to it either at the factory or at the point of

sale. The coloured particles added to paint to give it colour fall into

two catagories;

organic pigments and inorganic pigments.



The organic pigments are particles produced from chemicals in

laboratories. These tend to be all the colourwheel colours, like red,

blue and yellow, and all the intermediates you can make from red, blue

and yellow like purple, orange and green.



The inorganic pigments are really the modern synthetic equivalent of the

coloured rocks that artists like Da Vinci and Michaelangelo have been

pulverizing into find powders to colour their paints for centuries. The

pigment, Sienna, for example, is a mustard yellow colour and is made by

pulverizing the mustard yellow rocks found in and around the Italian

town of Siena. The synthetic equivalent of Sienna is called "Yellow

Oxide" and you can find yellow oxide in one of the canisters of every

paint tinting machine in North America.



Rocks are good at being opaque, but they're far better at being old.

But, let's face it, anything that is 300 million years old HAS TO BE

EXTREMELY CHEMICALLY STABLE. Otherwise it would have decomposed by now.

That extreme chemical stability manifests itself in the fact that rocks

don't fade from exposure to the Sun. For example, the red planet Mars

is red because or all the iron oxide in the rocks on it's surface. Mars

is the same colour as the rust on my car and has been exactly that same

colour for the past 5 billion years despite it being exposed to direct

intense sunlight 24/7.



So, if this porch is going to be exposed to direct sunlight, then buy

whatever paint you intend to use from any paint store that also deals

with industrial coatings, and deal with their industrial coatings sales

person. That person will be able to tell you which of the colourants in

their paint tinting machine are basically the modern day synthetic

equivalent of pulverized rocks. Tinting your paint with those pigments

will ensure that your paint won't fade so that in the future, you can

paint over any chipping or flaking of the porch without having to paint

the whole thing to get a uniform colour.



Good grief. Any modern paint from a reputable supplier that's made for exterior use, whether it's for siding, the front door, or a concrete porch is able to stand up to sun. It better be or they're going to be out of business.

On Sat, 09 Nov 2013 05:32:23 -0500, Norminn
wrote:

On 11/8/2013 12:31 PM, Higgs Boson wrote:
OK, the old paint is pretty much scraped off with the aid of Jason stripper.

Will try a final sanding with my home sander. Not up for renting a monster.

Then I need to apply a (preferably) thick layer of something to even out what minor irregularities might be left. Have been give 4 different suggestions for such an application.

To level any irregularities that might survive [product] I'm thinking of stamping an unobtrusive design into it while wet.

Does such a stamp exist? I see plenty of CONCRETE stamps on-line. Would they work with [product] as well? Any experience out there?

After [product] is spread, leveled, [stamped] and dried, I will apply a good quality primer and then 2 coats of paint. I hate it that oil-based is unavailable in CA!

You opinion welcome on:

1. "Leveling" product to apply

2. Feasibility of design stamp.

TIA

HB


Painted concrete scares me because it can be very slippery; bad idea, imo.

Never used this, but it looks good on paper:
http://www.quikrete.com/PDFs/Project...ngConcrete.pdf
Use "sanded" or textured non-slip paint. Paint is no slipprier than
smooth trowelled concrete.

On Sat, 09 Nov 2013 05:32:23 -0500, Norminn
wrote:

On 11/8/2013 12:31 PM, Higgs Boson wrote:
OK, the old paint is pretty much scraped off with the aid of Jason stripper.

Will try a final sanding with my home sander. Not up for renting a monster.

Then I need to apply a (preferably) thick layer of something to even out what minor irregularities might be left. Have been give 4 different suggestions for such an application.

To level any irregularities that might survive [product] I'm thinking of stamping an unobtrusive design into it while wet.

Does such a stamp exist? I see plenty of CONCRETE stamps on-line. Would they work with [product] as well? Any experience out there?

After [product] is spread, leveled, [stamped] and dried, I will apply a good quality primer and then 2 coats of paint. I hate it that oil-based is unavailable in CA!

You opinion welcome on:

1. "Leveling" product to apply

2. Feasibility of design stamp.

TIA

HB


Painted concrete scares me because it can be very slippery; bad idea, imo.

Never used this, but it looks good on paper:
http://www.quikrete.com/PDFs/Project...ngConcrete.pdf
QuickCrete products are, on the whole, good products.

Norminn wrote:
On 11/8/2013 12:31 PM, Higgs Boson wrote:
OK, the old paint is pretty much scraped off with the aid of Jason stripper.

Will try a final sanding with my home sander. Not up for renting a monster.

Then I need to apply a (preferably) thick layer of something to even out
what minor irregularities might be left. Have been give 4 different
suggestions for such an application.

To level any irregularities that might survive [product] I'm thinking of
stamping an unobtrusive design into it while wet.

Does such a stamp exist? I see plenty of CONCRETE stamps on-line.
Would they work with [product] as well? Any experience out there?

After [product] is spread, leveled, [stamped] and dried, I will apply a
good quality primer and then 2 coats of paint. I hate it that oil-based
is unavailable in CA!

You opinion welcome on:

1. "Leveling" product to apply

2. Feasibility of design stamp.

TIA

HB


Painted concrete scares me because it can be very slippery; bad idea, imo.

Never used this, but it looks good on paper:
http://www.quikrete.com/PDFs/Project...ngConcrete.pdf

I used the Quikrete product to resurface my garage floor a few years ago.
The garage is only used for foot traffic and storage, but so far it has
stood up very well. I used a broom finish so it has some bite.

One con is that you mix it in 5 gallon buckets. If you use a different
amount of water or work a section for a different amount of time, you can
get color variations from batch to batch. They hint at the possibility of
color variations in the documentation. I assume that if you added some
stain, the color variations might be less noticeable, but I can't say for
sure. This video shows them resurfacing a huge driveway.

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=nIEll-l...%3DnIEll-lmsQE

All in all, I'm very happy with the results. I went from a seriously pitted
(up to 1/2") floor that was getting worse and worse every year to a surface
you can comfortably walk on with bare feet.

On 11/8/2013 11:31 AM, Higgs Boson wrote:
OK, the old paint is pretty much s

1. "Leveling" product to apply

2. Feasibility of design stamp.

TIA

HB
Go here to learn everything there is to know about decorative concrete:

http://thestampstore.com/

--


___________________________________

Keep the whole world singing . . .
Dan G
remove the seven