In the first place, they weren't scheduled for this county until November,
per the power co's notification. More importantly, they weren't supposed
to install it until you gave your verbal OK when they came to the door,
because it's a political issue and potentially litigious. But the
contractors are really hustling for the commission that the power co. pays
for each installation.

Settling aside the allegations that these things emit harmful rays and are
a riskier fire hazard than the standard meters, I can't see any benefit to
the consumer. Can see benefit to the power co., e.g., they will no longer
need meter readers.

More control from Big Brother exerting his will.

On Wed, 23 Oct 2013 11:26:39 -0400, "Don't smoke; eat well; exercise;
die anyway" wrote:

In the first place, they weren't scheduled for this county until November,
per the power co's notification. More importantly, they weren't supposed
to install it until you gave your verbal OK when they came to the door,
because it's a political issue and potentially litigious. But the
contractors are really hustling for the commission that the power co. pays
for each installation.

Settling aside the allegations that these things emit harmful rays and are
a riskier fire hazard than the standard meters, I can't see any benefit to
the consumer. Can see benefit to the power co., e.g., they will no longer
need meter readers.

More control from Big Brother exerting his will.

Once you find a cure for the nasty warts, this should be smooth from
then on.

On 2013-10-23, Don't smoke; eat well; exercise; die anyway

Settling aside the allegations that these things emit harmful rays and are
a riskier fire hazard than the standard meters, I can't see any benefit to
the consumer. Can see benefit to the power co., e.g., they will no longer
need meter readers.

My concern is the claims that the new meters read power consumption
differently and there are many claims of them incorrectly providing
higher than usual readings and charging the customer more money.

Quite frankly, I don't begrudge the power companies saving money. We
spend ungodly amounts of money automating our homes and lives to save
$$$. I jes don't trust the utility companies. They have PUCs for a
reason, and it's not cuz the utilities are honest and fair players.

nb

On Wed, 23 Oct 2013 12:21:27 -0400, wrote:

On Wed, 23 Oct 2013 11:26:39 -0400, "Don't smoke; eat well; exercise;
die anyway" wrote:

In the first place, they weren't scheduled for this county until November,
per the power co's notification. More importantly, they weren't supposed
to install it until you gave your verbal OK when they came to the door,
because it's a political issue and potentially litigious. But the
contractors are really hustling for the commission that the power co. pays
for each installation.

Settling aside the allegations that these things emit harmful rays and are
a riskier fire hazard than the standard meters, I can't see any benefit to
the consumer. Can see benefit to the power co., e.g., they will no longer
need meter readers.

More control from Big Brother exerting his will.

I doubt you will get very far trying to pursue any actions against
them. It is their meter and they can do whatever they want with it,
any time they want. The only reason they knock on your door is to warn
you the power will be off a few seconds. If you don't answer, they
assume nobody is home and you won't know the power was off.

They certainly don't warn you every time they cut the power anyway.

They put mine in 2 years ago. We had notice on flyers that if you had
a meter behind a locked gate you had to take x action or something.

When the installs started there were strange individuals (crazy
people) showing up at public hearings thinking the sky might be
falling. What a bunch of strange conspiracies...

My power, water and gas are all read by the utilities doing drive-by
by wireless.

--
"People who worry about crocodiles are smart!" -Joe Machi

On Wed, 23 Oct 2013 12:21:27 -0400, wrote:

On Wed, 23 Oct 2013 11:26:39 -0400, "Don't smoke; eat well; exercise;
die anyway" wrote:

In the first place, they weren't scheduled for this county until November,
per the power co's notification. More importantly, they weren't supposed
to install it until you gave your verbal OK when they came to the door,
because it's a political issue and potentially litigious. But the
contractors are really hustling for the commission that the power co. pays
for each installation.

Settling aside the allegations that these things emit harmful rays and are
a riskier fire hazard than the standard meters, I can't see any benefit to
the consumer. Can see benefit to the power co., e.g., they will no longer
need meter readers.

More control from Big Brother exerting his will.

I doubt you will get very far trying to pursue any actions against
them. It is their meter and they can do whatever they want with it,
any time they want. The only reason they knock on your door is to warn
you the power will be off a few seconds. If you don't answer, they
assume nobody is home and you won't know the power was off.

They certainly don't warn you every time they cut the power anyway.

As instructed by the utility, some of the subcontractors have honored the
homeowners' statements that they were "opting out" of the program. What
this "opting out" will come to after all the political and legal battles
have been fought is anyone's guess. One utility rep suggested that those
who refuse to comply will be charged a fee for keeping their old meters.
Time will tell.

On Wednesday, October 23, 2013 12:21:27 PM UTC-4, wrote:
On Wed, 23 Oct 2013 11:26:39 -0400, "Don't smoke; eat well; exercise;

die anyway" wrote:



In the first place, they weren't scheduled for this county until November,

per the power co's notification. More importantly, they weren't supposed

to install it until you gave your verbal OK when they came to the door,

because it's a political issue and potentially litigious. But the

contractors are really hustling for the commission that the power co. pays

for each installation.



Settling aside the allegations that these things emit harmful rays and are

a riskier fire hazard than the standard meters, I can't see any benefit to

the consumer. Can see benefit to the power co., e.g., they will no longer

need meter readers.



More control from Big Brother exerting his will.



I doubt you will get very far trying to pursue any actions against

them. It is their meter and they can do whatever they want with it,

any time they want.

Agree. And if they actually did have a program where they
wouldn't change the meter unless you were at home to OK it
that would seem to be one hell of a mess. What would they
do? Schedule appointments? Make multiple visits because
no one was home? It's reasonable to expect that power
can be interrupted for a few minutes any time. If someone
has special requirements so that they can't deal with that,
then that is a problem beyond swapping a meter.


The only reason they knock on your door is to warn

you the power will be off a few seconds. If you don't answer, they

assume nobody is home and you won't know the power was off.



Most people would know it's off. Every time power is off
here for example, kitchen oven clock, microwave clock,
radio clock, etc need to be reset.




They certainly don't warn you every time they cut the power anyway.

+1

And with regard to their being no benefit to the consumer,
if the cost to the utility drops because they don't have
to read your meter, that's a benefit. Also, IDK what's going
on in this location, but in many cases smart meters enable
tiered pricing. They can now charge more during the day,
ie peak, less at night. I would think that would be a plus
for most consumers, as I would think most have less or no
people in the house during the day, AC set higher, etc.
That helps reduce the amount of power these utilities have
to buy at peak periods, lowering their total cost. It could
delay the need for building another power plant. It
might result in higher bills though, if you do use power
mostly in peak periods. It also encourage people to
shift loads like WH, pool pumps, etc to off peak.

As far as emitting harmful rays, that's a new one.
I don't see how this is any different than all the
other wireless things already in a typical house,
eg LAN, wifi hotspots, cell phone, etc.

On Wednesday, October 23, 2013 12:37:01 PM UTC-4, Oren wrote:
On Wed, 23 Oct 2013 12:21:27 -0400, wrote:



On Wed, 23 Oct 2013 11:26:39 -0400, "Don't smoke; eat well; exercise;

die anyway" wrote:



In the first place, they weren't scheduled for this county until November,

per the power co's notification. More importantly, they weren't supposed

to install it until you gave your verbal OK when they came to the door,

because it's a political issue and potentially litigious. But the

contractors are really hustling for the commission that the power co. pays

for each installation.



Settling aside the allegations that these things emit harmful rays and are

a riskier fire hazard than the standard meters, I can't see any benefit to

the consumer. Can see benefit to the power co., e.g., they will no longer

need meter readers.



More control from Big Brother exerting his will.



I doubt you will get very far trying to pursue any actions against

them. It is their meter and they can do whatever they want with it,

any time they want. The only reason they knock on your door is to warn

you the power will be off a few seconds. If you don't answer, they

assume nobody is home and you won't know the power was off.



They certainly don't warn you every time they cut the power anyway.



They put mine in 2 years ago. We had notice on flyers that if you had

a meter behind a locked gate you had to take x action or something.



When the installs started there were strange individuals (crazy

people) showing up at public hearings thinking the sky might be

falling. What a bunch of strange conspiracies...



I remember my mother telling me about a similar crazy
neighbor from back in the 60s. The issue then was adding
fluoride to the public drinking water. But I'd have to
say that's less crazy than the meter thing. In the fluoride
case, your'ee actually drinking it. I think you can still
find people fighting that one today.

A real problem now is vaccinations. We've had serious
outbreaks of Whooping Cough, a serious illness, with deaths.
I think it's reported to be
the worst it's been since WWII. Traced back to areas with
a lot of people who don't believe in vaccination. In
areas where enough kids aren't vaccinated, outbreaks occur
and spread. But enough parents believe that the risk of
the vaccine is greater than the risk of their child or
someone else's child dying without it.

In article ,
Don't smoke; eat well; exercise; die anyway wrote:
In the first place, they weren't scheduled for this county until November,
per the power co's notification. More importantly, they weren't supposed
to install it until you gave your verbal OK when they came to the door,
because it's a political issue and potentially litigious. But the
contractors are really hustling for the commission that the power co. pays
for each installation.

Settling aside the allegations that these things emit harmful rays and are
a riskier fire hazard than the standard meters, I can't see any benefit to
the consumer. Can see benefit to the power co., e.g., they will no longer
need meter readers.

More control from Big Brother exerting his will.

Is your electricity provided by some government entity? Mine
comes from a publicly traded corporation. No Big Brother
there.

Cindy Hamilton
--

On 10/23/2013 11:21 AM, wrote:

[snip]

The only reason they knock on your door is to warn
you the power will be off a few seconds. If you don't answer, they
assume nobody is home and you won't know the power was off.

I got a new electric meter (LCD display, and (I think) remote reading.
They came to the door and (as usual for that sort of thing) gave me less
than 3 seconds to answer.

They certainly don't warn you every time they cut the power anyway.



--
63 days until The winter celebration (Wed 25 Dec, 2013 12:00:00 AM for 1
day).

Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.us

"Where there are humans you'll find flies, and Buddhas." --Issa3

On Wed, 23 Oct 2013 12:21:27 -0400, wrote:

On Wed, 23 Oct 2013 11:26:39 -0400, "Don't smoke; eat well; exercise;
die anyway" wrote:

In the first place, they weren't scheduled for this county until November,
per the power co's notification. More importantly, they weren't supposed
to install it until you gave your verbal OK when they came to the door,
because it's a political issue and potentially litigious. But the
contractors are really hustling for the commission that the power co. pays
for each installation.

Settling aside the allegations that these things emit harmful rays and are
a riskier fire hazard than the standard meters, I can't see any benefit to
the consumer. Can see benefit to the power co., e.g., they will no longer
need meter readers.

More control from Big Brother exerting his will.

You don't say where you are or which company provides the
electricity.. I haven't been following this, but the guy was just
finishing doing the same to my meter when I happened by. He said they
would put the old one back if I called. This is BGE in Maryland. I
think I heard it's undecided yet if there's a charge, but I doubt
there will be.

What are these harmful rays? Do you mean two minutes a day of a
signal something like a cell phone signal? Except the transmitter
won't be next to your ear and won't be in your pocket or on your
dashboard. Most of the time it will be 10, 20, 30 feet away. Why
would that worry anyone?

The benefit to the consumer is that now they pay the same all day long
for electicity. Once there are enough meters, there will be a lower
rate during off-peak hours. If you dry your clothes at 9PM or on
weekends, you'll save money.


I doubt you will get very far trying to pursue any actions against
them. It is their meter and they can do whatever they want with it,
any time they want. The only reason they knock on your door is to warn
you the power will be off a few seconds. If you don't answer, they
assume nobody is home and you won't know the power was off.

They certainly don't warn you every time they cut the power anyway.

On 10/23/2013 12:08 PM, wrote:
On Wednesday, October 23, 2013 12:37:01 PM UTC-4, Oren wrote:
On Wed, 23 Oct 2013 12:21:27 -0400, wrote:



On Wed, 23 Oct 2013 11:26:39 -0400, "Don't smoke; eat well; exercise;

die anyway" wrote:



In the first place, they weren't scheduled for this county until November,

per the power co's notification. More importantly, they weren't supposed

to install it until you gave your verbal OK when they came to the door,

because it's a political issue and potentially litigious. But the

contractors are really hustling for the commission that the power co. pays

for each installation.



Settling aside the allegations that these things emit harmful rays and are

a riskier fire hazard than the standard meters, I can't see any benefit to

the consumer. Can see benefit to the power co., e.g., they will no longer

need meter readers.



More control from Big Brother exerting his will.



I doubt you will get very far trying to pursue any actions against

them. It is their meter and they can do whatever they want with it,

any time they want. The only reason they knock on your door is to warn

you the power will be off a few seconds. If you don't answer, they

assume nobody is home and you won't know the power was off.



They certainly don't warn you every time they cut the power anyway.



They put mine in 2 years ago. We had notice on flyers that if you had

a meter behind a locked gate you had to take x action or something.



When the installs started there were strange individuals (crazy

people) showing up at public hearings thinking the sky might be

falling. What a bunch of strange conspiracies...



I remember my mother telling me about a similar crazy
neighbor from back in the 60s. The issue then was adding
fluoride to the public drinking water. But I'd have to
say that's less crazy than the meter thing. In the fluoride
case, your'ee actually drinking it. I think you can still
find people fighting that one today.

A real problem now is vaccinations. We've had serious
outbreaks of Whooping Cough, a serious illness, with deaths.
I think it's reported to be
the worst it's been since WWII. Traced back to areas with
a lot of people who don't believe in vaccination. In
areas where enough kids aren't vaccinated, outbreaks occur
and spread. But enough parents believe that the risk of
the vaccine is greater than the risk of their child or
someone else's child dying without it.


Yesterday I heard my pharmacist telling a customer that it's important
for the grandparents of infants to get a booster shot for Whooping Cough
because their immune system may have lost it resistance to the disease
and allow them to pass it on to an infant grandchild who has no immunity
at all to many diseases. There is also that segment of the population of
illegal immigrants who enter the country with no checks
for communicable diseases. It's interesting that those of us who grew up
with fluoridated water probably don't give it a second thought. In my
early days as a child I grew up drinking fluoridated then moved to the
family farm where we got our water from a natural spring. I'm sure me
and my siblings got fluoride from the city water supplied to our
schools. What worries me about the addition of fluoride to the drinking
water here is the fact that some incompetent moron will screw up and put
too much into the water bringing the concentration up to toxic levels. o_O

http://www.nofluoride.com/Toxicity_o...ated_Water.cfm

TDD

Once there are enough meters, there will be a lower

rate during off-peak hours. If you dry your clothes at 9PM or on

weekends, you'll save money.



Yes that is the theory...
Once you have a smart meter you have to ask for TIME OF USE billing and if you can manage your usage properly in theory you can save $.

So far PECO is putting in the smart meters but has NOT offered TIME OF USE billing. Go figure.

Mark

On 10/23/2013 11:32 AM, micky wrote:


The benefit to the consumer is that now they pay the same all day long
for electicity. Once there are enough meters, there will be a lower
rate during off-peak hours. If you dry your clothes at 9PM or on
weekends, you'll save money.

Don't count on that.
More likely, they'll RAISE the peak rates to encourage you to conserve or
switch.

On 10/23/2013 11:49 AM, notbob wrote:
On 2013-10-23, Don't smoke; eat well; exercise; die anyway

Settling aside the allegations that these things emit harmful rays and are
a riskier fire hazard than the standard meters, I can't see any benefit to
the consumer. Can see benefit to the power co., e.g., they will no longer
need meter readers.

My concern is the claims that the new meters read power consumption
differently and there are many claims of them incorrectly providing
higher than usual readings and charging the customer more money.

I had one installed about 4 years ago and my electric bill went down by
a pretty good chunk.

On 10/23/2013 12:37 PM, Oren wrote:

My power, water and gas are all read by the utilities doing drive-by
by wireless.

My water meter is read by a satellite. My water main that feeds my
sprinkler system busted and the water company told me to the minute when
it busted because of higher usage and told me to the minute when I
turned the water off to fix it.

On Wed, 23 Oct 2013 12:59:05 -0400, "Don't smoke; eat well; exercise;
die anyway" wrote:

On Wed, 23 Oct 2013 12:21:27 -0400, wrote:

On Wed, 23 Oct 2013 11:26:39 -0400, "Don't smoke; eat well; exercise;
die anyway" wrote:

In the first place, they weren't scheduled for this county until November,
per the power co's notification. More importantly, they weren't supposed
to install it until you gave your verbal OK when they came to the door,
because it's a political issue and potentially litigious. But the
contractors are really hustling for the commission that the power co. pays
for each installation.

Settling aside the allegations that these things emit harmful rays and are
a riskier fire hazard than the standard meters, I can't see any benefit to
the consumer. Can see benefit to the power co., e.g., they will no longer
need meter readers.

More control from Big Brother exerting his will.

I doubt you will get very far trying to pursue any actions against
them. It is their meter and they can do whatever they want with it,
any time they want. The only reason they knock on your door is to warn
you the power will be off a few seconds. If you don't answer, they
assume nobody is home and you won't know the power was off.

They certainly don't warn you every time they cut the power anyway.

As instructed by the utility, some of the subcontractors have honored the
homeowners' statements that they were "opting out" of the program. What
this "opting out" will come to after all the political and legal battles
have been fought is anyone's guess. One utility rep suggested that those
who refuse to comply will be charged a fee for keeping their old meters.

That sounds like a perfectly reasonable solution.

Time will tell.

wrote:
On Wed, 23 Oct 2013 11:26:39 -0400, "Don't smoke; eat well; exercise;
die anyway" wrote:

In the first place, they weren't scheduled for this county until November,
per the power co's notification. More importantly, they weren't supposed
to install it until you gave your verbal OK when they came to the door,
because it's a political issue and potentially litigious. But the
contractors are really hustling for the commission that the power co. pays
for each installation.

Settling aside the allegations that these things emit harmful rays and are
a riskier fire hazard than the standard meters, I can't see any benefit to
the consumer. Can see benefit to the power co., e.g., they will no longer
need meter readers.

More control from Big Brother exerting his will.

I doubt you will get very far trying to pursue any actions against
them. It is their meter and they can do whatever they want with it,
any time they want. The only reason they knock on your door is to warn
you the power will be off a few seconds. If you don't answer, they
assume nobody is home and you won't know the power was off.

Yeah, you'll just assume all the clocks decided to start flashing on their
own.


They certainly don't warn you every time they cut the power anyway.

On 10/23/2013 7:37 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
wrote:
On Wed, 23 Oct 2013 11:26:39 -0400, "Don't smoke; eat well; exercise;
die anyway" wrote:

In the first place, they weren't scheduled for this county until November,
per the power co's notification. More importantly, they weren't supposed
to install it until you gave your verbal OK when they came to the door,
because it's a political issue and potentially litigious. But the
contractors are really hustling for the commission that the power co. pays
for each installation.

Settling aside the allegations that these things emit harmful rays and are
a riskier fire hazard than the standard meters, I can't see any benefit to
the consumer. Can see benefit to the power co., e.g., they will no longer
need meter readers.

More control from Big Brother exerting his will.

I doubt you will get very far trying to pursue any actions against
them. It is their meter and they can do whatever they want with it,
any time they want. The only reason they knock on your door is to warn
you the power will be off a few seconds. If you don't answer, they
assume nobody is home and you won't know the power was off.

Yeah, you'll just assume all the clocks decided to start flashing on their
own.


They certainly don't warn you every time they cut the power anyway.

I'm wondering if the same FCC rules concerning unlicensed low power
transmitters apply to smart meters? It's the part of the regulations
stating that the low power device may not interfere with licensed
equipment but must accept interference from other sources. I seem to
recall a printed insert in the box with all low power RF equipment I've
ever purchased. Perhaps a piece of experimental computer gear that just
happened to but not intentionally jams the smart meter signal could be a
great form of civil disobedience? ^_^

TDD

On Wednesday, October 23, 2013 10:26:39 AM UTC-5, Don't smoke; eat well; exercise; die anyway wrote:
In the first place, they weren't scheduled for this county until November, per the power co's notification. More importantly, they weren't supposed to install it until you gave your verbal OK when they came to the door, because it's a political issue and potentially litigious. But the contractors are really hustling for the commission that the power co. pays for each installation. Settling aside the allegations that these things emit harmful rays and are a riskier fire hazard than the standard meters, I can't see any benefit to the consumer. Can see benefit to the power co., e.g., they will no longer need meter readers. More control from Big Brother exerting his will.

Yes, the FCC rules do apply to smart meters. However, I'm not sure if the Part15 residential rules or the Part 18 Industrial, scientific, and medical rules apply. I would guess the Part 15 residential requirements would apply for interference to nearby "things". But if a person uses a cellphone for even a minute a month, they are getting a lot more radio-frequency radiation than they would get from a smart meter, even if they were inside the house on the wall opposite where the smart meter was located on the outside. I think those people suffer from "electrophobia".

We had a lot of protesters here in Napervlle, IL, when the smart meters were starting up. The protesters would even talk on their cellphones while they were protesting, it was rediculous.

In article ,
" wrote:

On Wednesday, October 23, 2013 12:37:01 PM UTC-4, Oren wrote:
On Wed, 23 Oct 2013 12:21:27 -0400, wrote:



On Wed, 23 Oct 2013 11:26:39 -0400, "Don't smoke; eat well; exercise;

die anyway" wrote:



In the first place, they weren't scheduled for this county until November,

per the power co's notification. More importantly, they weren't supposed

to install it until you gave your verbal OK when they came to the door,

because it's a political issue and potentially litigious. But the

contractors are really hustling for the commission that the power co. pays

for each installation.



Settling aside the allegations that these things emit harmful rays and are

a riskier fire hazard than the standard meters, I can't see any benefit to

the consumer. Can see benefit to the power co., e.g., they will no longer

need meter readers.



More control from Big Brother exerting his will.



I doubt you will get very far trying to pursue any actions against

them. It is their meter and they can do whatever they want with it,

any time they want. The only reason they knock on your door is to warn

you the power will be off a few seconds. If you don't answer, they

assume nobody is home and you won't know the power was off.



They certainly don't warn you every time they cut the power anyway.



They put mine in 2 years ago. We had notice on flyers that if you had

a meter behind a locked gate you had to take x action or something.



When the installs started there were strange individuals (crazy

people) showing up at public hearings thinking the sky might be

falling. What a bunch of strange conspiracies...



I remember my mother telling me about a similar crazy
neighbor from back in the 60s. The issue then was adding
fluoride to the public drinking water. But I'd have to
say that's less crazy than the meter thing. In the fluoride
case, your'ee actually drinking it. I think you can still
find people fighting that one today.

A real problem now is vaccinations. We've had serious
outbreaks of Whooping Cough, a serious illness, with deaths.
I think it's reported to be
the worst it's been since WWII. Traced back to areas with
a lot of people who don't believe in vaccination. In
areas where enough kids aren't vaccinated, outbreaks occur
and spread. But enough parents believe that the risk of
the vaccine is greater than the risk of their child or
someone else's child dying without it.

evolution in action

On Wed, 23 Oct 2013 16:00:55 -0700, mike wrote:

On 10/23/2013 11:32 AM, micky wrote:


The benefit to the consumer is that now they pay the same all day long
for electicity. Once there are enough meters, there will be a lower
rate during off-peak hours. If you dry your clothes at 9PM or on
weekends, you'll save money.

Don't count on that.
More likely, they'll RAISE the peak rates to encourage you to conserve or
switch.

By "lower" I meant lower than another rate. Of course inflation and
possibly other things will push rates up, but by encouraging people to
use electricity during off-peak hours, everyone will save money
compared to the alternative rate, and compared to the alternative
system that we have now. .

The alternative exists now, when, in order to avoid brown-outs and
power failures, the electric companies have to have generating power
to supply almost everything at once, all the offices and factories
that run during the day and anyone at home running the oven, the
dryer, the AC.

If they can get some of that to be used during the evening and night,
and lower the peak demand (which I believe is on weekday afternoons)
they won't need so many electric plants, generators, etc.

It's like the situation of someone who has only one car and wants one
that carries 6 people for the times he has 5 other people, but usually
drives alone or with one other. He has to buy a much bigger car, use
much more gas all the time, just for those occasions when he has 4 or
5 people with him.

On Wed, 23 Oct 2013 17:09:37 GMT, Cindy Hamilton wrote:

In article ,
Don't smoke; eat well; exercise; die anyway wrote:
In the first place, they weren't scheduled for this county until November,
per the power co's notification. More importantly, they weren't supposed
to install it until you gave your verbal OK when they came to the door,
because it's a political issue and potentially litigious. But the
contractors are really hustling for the commission that the power co. pays
for each installation.

Settling aside the allegations that these things emit harmful rays and are
a riskier fire hazard than the standard meters, I can't see any benefit to
the consumer. Can see benefit to the power co., e.g., they will no longer
need meter readers.

More control from Big Brother exerting his will.

Is your electricity provided by some government entity? Mine
comes from a publicly traded corporation. No Big Brother
there.

Cindy Hamilton

My utility is also publicly traded but they walk in lock-step with every
enviro-wacko initiative of the State gubamint. The Public Service
Commission almost always sides with them in disputes. It's hard to 'splain
but they've always come off as Big Brother to moi.

On 2013-10-23, Ron wrote:

I had one installed about 4 years ago and my electric bill went down by
a pretty good chunk.

Good to hear. I realize every new device get its share of knee-jerk
detractors, but there seemed to be an aweful lot of them, in this
case. That, plus utility companies are generally pretty slimey. I
dealt with PG&E most of my life and they are evil incarnate.

nb

On Thu, 24 Oct 2013 00:37:54 +0000 (UTC), DerbyDad03
wrote:

wrote:
On Wed, 23 Oct 2013 11:26:39 -0400, "Don't smoke; eat well; exercise;
die anyway" wrote:

In the first place, they weren't scheduled for this county until November,
per the power co's notification. More importantly, they weren't supposed
to install it until you gave your verbal OK when they came to the door,
because it's a political issue and potentially litigious. But the
contractors are really hustling for the commission that the power co. pays
for each installation.

Settling aside the allegations that these things emit harmful rays and are
a riskier fire hazard than the standard meters, I can't see any benefit to
the consumer. Can see benefit to the power co., e.g., they will no longer
need meter readers.

More control from Big Brother exerting his will.

I doubt you will get very far trying to pursue any actions against
them. It is their meter and they can do whatever they want with it,
any time they want. The only reason they knock on your door is to warn
you the power will be off a few seconds. If you don't answer, they
assume nobody is home and you won't know the power was off.

Yeah, you'll just assume all the clocks decided to start flashing on their
own.

In my other house, that was a normal day. When we got home at night
and they weren't flashing, we wondered what was wrong.

On Wed, 23 Oct 2013 22:22:56 -0500, The Daring Dufas
wrote:

On 10/23/2013 7:37 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
wrote:
On Wed, 23 Oct 2013 11:26:39 -0400, "Don't smoke; eat well; exercise;
die anyway" wrote:

In the first place, they weren't scheduled for this county until November,
per the power co's notification. More importantly, they weren't supposed
to install it until you gave your verbal OK when they came to the door,
because it's a political issue and potentially litigious. But the
contractors are really hustling for the commission that the power co. pays
for each installation.

Settling aside the allegations that these things emit harmful rays and are
a riskier fire hazard than the standard meters, I can't see any benefit to
the consumer. Can see benefit to the power co., e.g., they will no longer
need meter readers.

More control from Big Brother exerting his will.

I doubt you will get very far trying to pursue any actions against
them. It is their meter and they can do whatever they want with it,
any time they want. The only reason they knock on your door is to warn
you the power will be off a few seconds. If you don't answer, they
assume nobody is home and you won't know the power was off.

Yeah, you'll just assume all the clocks decided to start flashing on their
own.


They certainly don't warn you every time they cut the power anyway.

I'm wondering if the same FCC rules concerning unlicensed low power
transmitters apply to smart meters?

Certainly.

It's the part of the regulations
stating that the low power device may not interfere with licensed
equipment but must accept interference from other sources. I seem to
recall a printed insert in the box with all low power RF equipment I've
ever purchased. Perhaps a piece of experimental computer gear that just
happened to but not intentionally jams the smart meter signal could be a
great form of civil disobedience? ^_^

It would be illegal, of course. You could probably flood the area
with other (legal) ISM transmitters quite legally, though. ;-)

On 10/23/2013 8:26 AM, Don't smoke; eat well; exercise; die anyway wrote:
In the first place, they weren't scheduled for this county until November,
per the power co's notification. More importantly, they weren't supposed
to install it until you gave your verbal OK when they came to the door,
because it's a political issue and potentially litigious. But the
contractors are really hustling for the commission that the power co. pays
for each installation.

Settling aside the allegations that these things emit harmful rays and are
a riskier fire hazard than the standard meters, I can't see any benefit to
the consumer. Can see benefit to the power co., e.g., they will no longer
need meter readers.

More control from Big Brother exerting his will.


The benefit in area where the meters are all behind locked gates is
pretty big. Prior to the smart meter I had to read my own meter and put
a card in the window with the reading, unless I wanted to stay home and
wait for the meter reader and let them in.

In San Francisco most of the houses have the meter facing the street and
it's inside the garage but readable through a small glass window. Not
the case out in the suburbs.

There is an opt-out option where I live. There's a one-time cost of $75
to put a dumb meter back in, then a monthly cost of $10. Maybe your
power company has a similar program that you could sign up for.

http://www.pge.com/en/myhome/customerservice/smartmeter/optout/index.page

On 10/23/2013 9:59 AM, Don't smoke; eat well; exercise; die anyway wrote:
One utility rep suggested that those
who refuse to comply will be charged a fee for keeping their old meters.
Time will tell.

http://www.pge.com/en/myhome/customerservice/smartmeter/optout/index.page

On 10/23/2013 11:32 AM, micky wrote:
On Wed, 23 Oct 2013 12:21:27 -0400, wrote:

On Wed, 23 Oct 2013 11:26:39 -0400, "Don't smoke; eat well; exercise;
die anyway" wrote:

In the first place, they weren't scheduled for this county until November,
per the power co's notification. More importantly, they weren't supposed
to install it until you gave your verbal OK when they came to the door,
because it's a political issue and potentially litigious. But the
contractors are really hustling for the commission that the power co. pays
for each installation.

Settling aside the allegations that these things emit harmful rays and are
a riskier fire hazard than the standard meters, I can't see any benefit to
the consumer. Can see benefit to the power co., e.g., they will no longer
need meter readers.

More control from Big Brother exerting his will.

You don't say where you are or which company provides the
electricity.. I haven't been following this, but the guy was just
finishing doing the same to my meter when I happened by. He said they
would put the old one back if I called. This is BGE in Maryland. I
think I heard it's undecided yet if there's a charge, but I doubt
there will be.

What are these harmful rays? Do you mean two minutes a day of a
signal something like a cell phone signal? Except the transmitter
won't be next to your ear and won't be in your pocket or on your
dashboard. Most of the time it will be 10, 20, 30 feet away. Why
would that worry anyone?

The benefit to the consumer is that now they pay the same all day long
for electicity. Once there are enough meters, there will be a lower
rate during off-peak hours. If you dry your clothes at 9PM or on
weekends, you'll save money.

Well where I am most people have gas dryers so that's not going to help
much. BTW, the gas meters also have been modified to be read remotely as
well.

I guess I could run the A/C at night when it's cool outside, and run the
pool pump at night when it doesn't do much good.

On 10/23/2013 11:58 AM, wrote:
Once there are enough meters, there will be a lower

rate during off-peak hours. If you dry your clothes at 9PM or on

weekends, you'll save money.



Yes that is the theory...
Once you have a smart meter you have to ask for TIME OF USE billing and if you can manage your usage properly in theory you can save $.

So far PECO is putting in the smart meters but has NOT offered TIME OF USE billing. Go figure.

Mark


I'd be careful with time of use billing because some of the biggest
users of electricity have to be used at the peak time to be effective.
These are air-conditioners and pool pumps.

On 10/24/2013 1:26 PM, wrote:
On Wed, 23 Oct 2013 23:44:33 -0500, The Daring Dufas
wrote:

On 10/23/2013 11:19 PM, Malcom "Mal" Reynolds wrote:
had there been more stupid voters, we'd have a mormon president. go
figure


Oh look, it's Malcom a fine example of a stupid voter and one who hates
Mormons but loves Satanists and especially Islamic terrorists. Hey
Malcom, have you hugged a Muslim terrorist today? ^_^

He should hug a suicide bomber. He loves 'em so.

You mean the guy who goes out into the desert
and blows himself up?

I'm more concerned about homicide bombers. They
go into crowds, and blow others up.

--
..
Christopher A. Young
Learn about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

On Thu, 24 Oct 2013 10:56:09 -0700, sms
wrote:

On 10/23/2013 11:32 AM, micky wrote:
On Wed, 23 Oct 2013 12:21:27 -0400, wrote:

On Wed, 23 Oct 2013 11:26:39 -0400, "Don't smoke; eat well; exercise;
die anyway" wrote:

In the first place, they weren't scheduled for this county until November,
per the power co's notification. More importantly, they weren't supposed
to install it until you gave your verbal OK when they came to the door,
because it's a political issue and potentially litigious. But the
contractors are really hustling for the commission that the power co. pays
for each installation.

Settling aside the allegations that these things emit harmful rays and are
a riskier fire hazard than the standard meters, I can't see any benefit to
the consumer. Can see benefit to the power co., e.g., they will no longer
need meter readers.

More control from Big Brother exerting his will.

You don't say where you are or which company provides the
electricity.. I haven't been following this, but the guy was just
finishing doing the same to my meter when I happened by. He said they
would put the old one back if I called. This is BGE in Maryland. I
think I heard it's undecided yet if there's a charge, but I doubt
there will be.

What are these harmful rays? Do you mean two minutes a day of a
signal something like a cell phone signal? Except the transmitter
won't be next to your ear and won't be in your pocket or on your
dashboard. Most of the time it will be 10, 20, 30 feet away. Why
would that worry anyone?

The benefit to the consumer is that now they pay the same all day long
for electicity. Once there are enough meters, there will be a lower
rate during off-peak hours. If you dry your clothes at 9PM or on
weekends, you'll save money.

Well where I am most people have gas dryers so that's not going to help
much. BTW, the gas meters also have been modified to be read remotely as
well.

Yeah, how come no one complained about that? Doesn't that put out
the same evil radio waves?

I guess I could run the A/C at night when it's cool outside, and run the
pool pump at night when it doesn't do much good.

That's the idea.

On 10/24/2013 11:23 AM, micky wrote:


I guess I could run the A/C at night when it's cool outside, and run the
pool pump at night when it doesn't do much good.

That's the idea.

What is it about night that makes the pool pump do a bad job
of filtering?

sms wrote:
On 10/23/2013 8:26 AM, Don't smoke; eat well; exercise; die anyway wrote:
In the first place, they weren't scheduled for this county until
November,
per the power co's notification. More importantly, they weren't supposed
to install it until you gave your verbal OK when they came to the door,
because it's a political issue and potentially litigious. But the
contractors are really hustling for the commission that the power co.
pays
for each installation.

Settling aside the allegations that these things emit harmful rays and
are
a riskier fire hazard than the standard meters, I can't see any
benefit to
the consumer. Can see benefit to the power co., e.g., they will no
longer
need meter readers.

More control from Big Brother exerting his will.


The benefit in area where the meters are all behind locked gates is
pretty big. Prior to the smart meter I had to read my own meter and put
a card in the window with the reading, unless I wanted to stay home and
wait for the meter reader and let them in.

In San Francisco most of the houses have the meter facing the street and
it's inside the garage but readable through a small glass window. Not
the case out in the suburbs.

There is an opt-out option where I live. There's a one-time cost of $75
to put a dumb meter back in, then a monthly cost of $10. Maybe your
power company has a similar program that you could sign up for.

http://www.pge.com/en/myhome/customerservice/smartmeter/optout/index.page
Hmmm,
What? read the meter and jot it down on a card? Our meters(water, NG,
power) are all remotely read. Meter reader just pass by the house to
read them. Next phase, a big bird in the sky will read them feeding
directly into bill computer system. Alas, meter readers will become
extinct.

On Wed, 23 Oct 2013 23:44:33 -0500, The Daring Dufas
wrote:

Oh look, it's Malcom a fine example of a stupid voter and one who hates
Mormons but loves Satanists and especially Islamic terrorists. Hey
Malcom, have you hugged a Muslim terrorist today? ^_^

TDD

....can't we just skip with all the formalities?

"micky" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 23 Oct 2013 12:21:27 -0400, wrote:

On Wed, 23 Oct 2013 11:26:39 -0400, "Don't smoke; eat well; exercise;
die anyway" wrote:

In the first place, they weren't scheduled for this county until
November,
per the power co's notification. More importantly, they weren't supposed
to install it until you gave your verbal OK when they came to the door,
because it's a political issue and potentially litigious. But the
contractors are really hustling for the commission that the power co.
pays
for each installation.

Settling aside the allegations that these things emit harmful rays and
are
a riskier fire hazard than the standard meters, I can't see any benefit
to
the consumer. Can see benefit to the power co., e.g., they will no
longer
need meter readers.

More control from Big Brother exerting his will.

You don't say where you are or which company provides the
electricity.. I haven't been following this, but the guy was just
finishing doing the same to my meter when I happened by. He said they
would put the old one back if I called. This is BGE in Maryland. I
think I heard it's undecided yet if there's a charge, but I doubt
there will be.

What are these harmful rays? Do you mean two minutes a day of a
signal something like a cell phone signal? Except the transmitter
won't be next to your ear and won't be in your pocket or on your
dashboard. Most of the time it will be 10, 20, 30 feet away. Why
would that worry anyone?

The benefit to the consumer is that now they pay the same all day long
for electicity. Once there are enough meters, there will be a lower
rate during off-peak hours. If you dry your clothes at 9PM or on
weekends, you'll save money.

My experience with smart meters is the utility doesn't give you cheaper
electricity during off hours and night, instead they charge you more for
electricity used during peak hours and daytime.

On Wednesday, October 23, 2013 11:26:39 AM UTC-4, Don't smoke; eat well; exercise; die anyway wrote:
In the first place, they weren't scheduled for this county until November,

per the power co's notification. More importantly, they weren't supposed

to install it until you gave your verbal OK when they came to the door,

because it's a political issue and potentially litigious. But the

contractors are really hustling for the commission that the power co. pays

for each installation.



Settling aside the allegations that these things emit harmful rays and are

a riskier fire hazard than the standard meters, I can't see any benefit to

the consumer. Can see benefit to the power co., e.g., they will no longer

need meter readers.



More control from Big Brother exerting his will.

My insurance went up 1000% anyway.
We need a violent overthrow of the uS government

On Wednesday, October 23, 2013 11:49:45 AM UTC-4, notbob wrote:
On 2013-10-23, Don't smoke; eat well; exercise; die anyway



Settling aside the allegations that these things emit harmful rays and are

a riskier fire hazard than the standard meters, I can't see any benefit to

the consumer. Can see benefit to the power co., e.g., they will no longer

need meter readers.



My concern is the claims that the new meters read power consumption

differently and there are many claims of them incorrectly providing

higher than usual readings and charging the customer more money.



Quite frankly, I don't begrudge the power companies saving money. We

spend ungodly amounts of money automating our homes and lives to save

$$$. I jes don't trust the utility companies. They have PUCs for a

reason, and it's not cuz the utilities are honest and fair players.



nb

US courts are kangaroo. Beat a human rights liar to death with baseball bats.

On Thu, 24 Oct 2013 14:02:13 -0400, Stormin Mormon
wrote:

On 10/24/2013 1:26 PM, wrote:
On Wed, 23 Oct 2013 23:44:33 -0500, The Daring Dufas
wrote:

On 10/23/2013 11:19 PM, Malcom "Mal" Reynolds wrote:
had there been more stupid voters, we'd have a mormon president. go
figure


Oh look, it's Malcom a fine example of a stupid voter and one who hates
Mormons but loves Satanists and especially Islamic terrorists. Hey
Malcom, have you hugged a Muslim terrorist today? ^_^

He should hug a suicide bomber. He loves 'em so.

You mean the guy who goes out into the desert
and blows himself up?

Desert? Well, yes, most of the Middle East is a desert.

I'm more concerned about homicide bombers. They
go into crowds, and blow others up.

They also blow themselves up. They don't use smart bombs.

On Thu, 24 Oct 2013 11:29:25 -0700, mike wrote:

On 10/24/2013 11:23 AM, micky wrote:


I guess I could run the A/C at night when it's cool outside, and run the
pool pump at night when it doesn't do much good.

That's the idea.

What is it about night that makes the pool pump do a bad job
of filtering?

Nothing, it just tends to cool the pool (sometimes desired).

Ron wrote:
On 10/23/2013 12:37 PM, Oren wrote:

My power, water and gas are all read by the utilities doing drive-by
by wireless.

My water meter is read by a satellite. My water main that feeds my
sprinkler system busted and the water company told me to the minute when
it busted because of higher usage and told me to the minute when I
turned the water off to fix it.


I can't wait until we get smart electric meters so First Energy will
know my elctricity is out and I won't even have to call them