On 10/25/2013 1:31 AM, The Daring Dufas wrote:


I do
see a problem with becoming a cashless society. It would mean that the
government could tell you that you must do something and if you refused,
your money would be turned off. I now see that coming with health care. o_O

TDD


I haven't got the source, but I do remember some about
the new plan wants your bank account number, so that
they can make automatic payments from your account.

As to shutting off money, no party line Democrat would
have anything to fear from the government.
--
..
Christopher A. Young
Learn about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

On 10/24/2013 11:43 PM, dpb wrote:
....

Loss limit is $0. I had charges from my wife's card and the money was
back in the account in 24 hours.

Well, again, it's up to them. If they honored it that's _a_good_thing_
(tm) but it's not in the law and is quite unusual, indeed.


I discover I hadn't kept up entirely -- the CC loss of $50 is part of
the Fair Credit Billing Act (FCBA) and doesn't cover ATM/debit cards.
What I hadn't read recently enough was the provisions of the (somewhat
newer) EFTA -- the Electronic Funds Transfer Act; it does have loss
limits that aren't the same.

But, the $0 limit is there, you are correct--I wasn't aware of that. A
summary is if you report--

-Before any unauthorized charges are made. -- Limit $0

-Within 2 business days after you learn about the loss or theft. --
Limit $50 (Aside, how do you prove when you "learned" of it?)

-More than 2 business days after you learn about the loss or theft,
but less than 60 calendar days after your statement is sent to you. --
Limit $500

Now here's the kicker -- not that it's likely if you're paying any
attention at all, but...the law isn't user friendly here, for sure.

-More than 60 calendar days after your statement is sent to you. All
the money taken from your ATM/debit card acount, and possibly more; for
example, money in accounts linked to your debit account.

So, the $0-limit within that first time frame or if you know and report
it before the charges are actually made, that's in the law and so it
isn't up to the issuer as I had thought. I thought it was like the $500
limit was the best it was for debit/ATM and everybody remembers the last
one.

So, I should have looked it up for a refresher first; sorry...

--

On 10/25/2013 12:31 AM, The Daring Dufas wrote:
On 10/24/2013 11:44 PM, dpb wrote:
On 10/24/2013 11:34 PM, The Daring Dufas wrote:
...

There are places like Aldi which will not process credit cards you must
use it as a debit card. ^_^

...

In which case it stays on the shelf...

....

I happen to like Aldi and my Visa card works both ways so I've had to
remember my pin number. My card works at the teller window at my bank
and I don't have to write a check anymore to get cash at my bank. I do
see a problem with becoming a cashless society. It would mean that the
government could tell you that you must do something and if you refused,
your money would be turned off. I now see that coming with health care. o_O

None of them here -- there is one at one of kid's places of residence;
don't even recall which one, now. The one card is AC/DC but I don't
know the PIN and never will....in fact, this reminds me that I don't
think I ever activated it when they sent the new one. I ought to try
the CC side and make sure it's working just in case. I normally use a
different one only on rare occasions use the other (the one accumulates
miles into the long-term FF acc't so just keep on w/ it even though no
longer in consulting gig travel is way down it does pay for a family
trip every year or so--daughter and sil flew here from Olympia last
winter using those miles that couldn't have done themselves. And I just
do (and will) not routinely carry significant amounts of cash.

--

On Thu, 24 Oct 2013 23:43:11 -0500, dpb wrote:

On 10/24/2013 8:25 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On 10/24/2013 3:14 PM, dpb wrote:

Nope, I can use it as a debit card and pin and get the same deal. Info
came in the mail recently and also in with my bank statement. Don't know
how others work, but that is what came from Peoples Bank.

Check carefully about the fraud provisions or loss coverage, etc., ...

If they match the Federal on the $50 max loss, etc., I'd be quite
surprised and it will, as noted, be a case of the issuer stepping up to
the plate as a marketing ploy and can go away any time as it isn't
mandated by law as is the credit card side. The warranty and other
features I'm not surprised about; many do that. The key point is the
loss limitations, though, and I'd suggest reading the fine print _very_
carefully before you assume too much.
...

Loss limit is $0. I had charges from my wife's card and the money was
back in the account in 24 hours.

Well, again, it's up to them. If they honored it that's _a_good_thing_
(tm) but it's not in the law and is quite unusual, indeed.
It's the law in Canada.

On 10/25/2013 4:57 AM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On Fri, 25 Oct 2013 00:31:31 -0500, The Daring Dufas
wrote:




I do
see a problem with becoming a cashless society. It would mean that the
government could tell you that you must do something and if you refused,
your money would be turned off. I now see that coming with health care. o_O

TDD


At the rate we are going, they can eliminate the fees on card and just
take 3% of our income when direct deposited and GIVE it to the banks.
I just don't like the idea they are getting a piece of everything we
do. Sure, I use card for convenience at times, but try to use cash
for anything under $100, more if I plan ahead to carry extra cash..


Taxation without representation. Amazing what people will give up for
convenience and some perceived safety. ^_^

TDD

On 10/25/2013 12:58 PM, wrote:
....

It's the law in Canada.

Turns out it is in US, too...see other subthread where updated.
Conditions different than for CCs, but if one reports timely then it is
covered.

--

On Thu, 24 Oct 2013 21:29:23 -0400, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

On 10/24/2013 7:49 PM, wrote:

Nope, I can use it as a debit card and pin and get the same deal. Info
came in the mail recently and also in with my bank statement. Don't know
how others work, but that is what came from Peoples Bank.

Check carefully about the fraud provisions or loss coverage, etc., ...

If they match the Federal on the $50 max loss, etc., I'd be quite
surprised and it will, as noted, be a case of the issuer stepping up to
the plate as a marketing ploy and can go away any time as it isn't
mandated by law as is the credit card side. The warranty and other
features I'm not surprised about; many do that. The key point is the
loss limitations, though, and I'd suggest reading the fine print _very_
carefully before you assume too much.

Exactly. I'd be very surprised if the bank was really stepping up to
the plate. ...and will if the fit hits the shan.


They stepped up to $1200 in charges on a stolen card. Money was back in
the account the day after it was reported by phone. Surprised?

Was the PIN used? I *just* happened to me but the PIN wasn't used, so
the charges were processed through the VISA system. No problem, it
was covered (other than the BS of getting a new card).

On 10/25/2013 3:18 PM, The Daring Dufas wrote:
On 10/25/2013 4:57 AM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
At the rate we are going, they can eliminate the fees on card and just
take 3% of our income when direct deposited and GIVE it to the banks.
I just don't like the idea they are getting a piece of everything we
do. Sure, I use card for convenience at times, but try to use cash
for anything under $100, more if I plan ahead to carry extra cash..


Taxation without representation. Amazing what people will give up for
convenience and some perceived safety. ^_^

TDD

I think the founding fathers would weep, if they
could see the level of federal management of every
thing in our lives.

--
..
Christopher A. Young
Learn about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

On 10/25/2013 4:48 PM, wrote:



They stepped up to $1200 in charges on a stolen card. Money was back in
the account the day after it was reported by phone. Surprised?

Was the PIN used? I *just* happened to me but the PIN wasn't used, so
the charges were processed through the VISA system. No problem, it
was covered (other than the BS of getting a new card).


Don't know but the card was stolen so probably not a PIN. It was swiped
at a WalMart and a gas station. My dealing was with my bank so if MC
was involved they did so.

On Fri, 25 Oct 2013 20:29:54 -0400, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

On 10/25/2013 4:48 PM, wrote:



They stepped up to $1200 in charges on a stolen card. Money was back in
the account the day after it was reported by phone. Surprised?

Was the PIN used? I *just* happened to me but the PIN wasn't used, so
the charges were processed through the VISA system. No problem, it
was covered (other than the BS of getting a new card).


Don't know but the card was stolen so probably not a PIN. It was swiped
at a WalMart and a gas station. My dealing was with my bank so if MC
was involved they did so.

Yes, that's the normal way of doing things, though you could go
directly to MC if your bank wasn't cooperative. I just went through
the same. The fact is that MC (VISA, in my case) was the one backing
the transaction. If the PIN was used, the CCC wouldn't be involved
and your bank may have treated it differently since it was their
network. The rules are completely different.

On 10/25/2013 7:29 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On 10/25/2013 4:48 PM, wrote:



They stepped up to $1200 in charges on a stolen card. Money was back in
the account the day after it was reported by phone. Surprised?

Was the PIN used? I *just* happened to me but the PIN wasn't used, so
the charges were processed through the VISA system. No problem, it
was covered (other than the BS of getting a new card).


Don't know but the card was stolen so probably not a PIN. It was swiped
at a WalMart and a gas station. My dealing was with my bank so if MC was
involved they did so.

So it's not the debit card rules in play from the ETFA but the CC rules
anyway...

So, no, I'm not surprised if it was reported promptly which apparently
it was since it was next day.

But, see other sidebar--I hadn't followed the rules on debit cards as
closely as should. Doesn't sound like there's anything on the card
beyond being in compliance as far as the funds liability is there? The
other amenities are competitive features...

--

"Stormin Mormon" wrote in message
...
On 10/25/2013 1:31 AM, The Daring Dufas wrote:


I do
see a problem with becoming a cashless society. It would mean that the
government could tell you that you must do something and if you refused,
your money would be turned off. I now see that coming with health care.
o_O

TDD


I haven't got the source, but I do remember some about
the new plan wants your bank account number, so that
they can make automatic payments from your account.

As to shutting off money, no party line Democrat would
have anything to fear from the government.
--
.
Christopher A. Young
Learn about Jesus
www.lds.org

The government has always been able to shut off the money -- declaring "bank
holidays" during the 1929 depression, for example. See:
http://www.ushistory.org/us/49a.asp

If you don't like the government's money, switch to bitcoin. It's
completely uncontrolled.

Tomsic

On 10/26/2013 10:29 AM, dpb wrote:


So it's not the debit card rules in play from the ETFA but the CC rules
anyway...

So, no, I'm not surprised if it was reported promptly which apparently
it was since it was next day.

But, see other sidebar--I hadn't followed the rules on debit cards as
closely as should. Doesn't sound like there's anything on the card
beyond being in compliance as far as the funds liability is there? The
other amenities are competitive features...

Laws state the minimum they have to do, but for debit cards to be
accepted, they have to keep pace with the competition.