I have been in plumbing hell for the last few months. One damn me$$ after another.

Now I ask your input on some procedure quoted to me by Plumber A as
"Hydrojet". Supposed to clean around the interior pipe rather than snake a hole though it (my unscientific interpretation!).

Just checked with Plumber B who snaked my line in *Feb*. Clogged up in *July*.
Plumber B snaked it again.

Two days later, had major work in bathroom done by Plumber A. Kitchen clogged up again *5 days later.* I was afraid something got stuck in there from bathroom work by Plumber B. I've been letting kitchen water run into driveway; afraid to investigate whose "fault" it is if anyone, and how to fix problem.

Called Plumber A. They said no chance anything stuck in line; they do not converge. Recommended Hydrojet. They haven't followed through as promised..
End of THEM!

Called Plumber B (snaker). He said in 25 years he had rarelu of ever used Hydrojet. He is coming over to see. Says sometimes 2 snakings needed.

If a kitchen snake job can seize up IN A FEW DAYS doesn't that mean something is radically wrong? Esp. if it was snaked in Feb, then again in July? Normally over [censored] years, I've only had to have it snaked every few YEARS!

Who is scamming me, if anybody?

Does anyone agree with Plumber B (snaker) that Hydrojet is not often needed?

Sorry for the length, but I have family coming in 2 days and I don't want them to see mess in driveway.

Any input welcome.

HB

On Wed, 9 Oct 2013 10:27:54 -0700 (PDT), Higgs Boson
wrote:

I have been in plumbing hell for the last few months. One damn me$$ after another.

Now I ask your input on some procedure quoted to me by Plumber A as
"Hydrojet". Supposed to clean around the interior pipe rather than snake a hole though it (my unscientific interpretation!).

Just checked with Plumber B who snaked my line in *Feb*. Clogged up in *July*.
Plumber B snaked it again.

Two days later, had major work in bathroom done by Plumber A. Kitchen clogged up again *5 days later.* I was afraid something got stuck in there from bathroom work by Plumber B. I've been letting kitchen water run into driveway; afraid to investigate whose "fault" it is if anyone, and how to fix problem.

Called Plumber A. They said no chance anything stuck in line; they do not converge. Recommended Hydrojet. They haven't followed through as promised.
End of THEM!

Called Plumber B (snaker). He said in 25 years he had rarelu of ever used Hydrojet. He is coming over to see. Says sometimes 2 snakings needed.

If a kitchen snake job can seize up IN A FEW DAYS doesn't that mean something is radically wrong? Esp. if it was snaked in Feb, then again in July? Normally over [censored] years, I've only had to have it snaked every few YEARS!

Who is scamming me, if anybody?

Does anyone agree with Plumber B (snaker) that Hydrojet is not often needed?

Sorry for the length, but I have family coming in 2 days and I don't want them to see mess in driveway.

Any input welcome.

All I can say is that I think I've seen hydro-jet done, for the sewer
that runs near the road, from house to house (townhouses fwliw)

They have water sprays coming out from the center pointing in maybe 10
directions, and another sprray pointing fowards, that slowly propels
the device in the other direction, or maybe they just reel it in.

They used this after the people at the top of the hill had trouble
draining their sinks. The plumber said he found a fat log in the
sewer, I guess made of fat that's liquid when the hot water is running
in the sink and is much nearer to hard when it hits the cold water in
the sewer. I think that's only happened once in tthe 30 years I've
been here, but individual houses have probably had clogged drains.

I myself have never had a clogged drain in the 60 years I can
remember, since I was 6 and lived with my parents and all the time
I've lived on my own. Or even a toilet where the water level rose
when I flushed it, let alone overflowed.

I don't let fat run into the kitchen sink. I pour it in a jar with a
screw on lid, freeze it, and eventually throw it in the trash. I
don't put anything but human waste and toilet paper (not Kleenex or
anything like Kleenex) in the toilet. Toilet paper is designed to
fall apart when wet. No other paper is. And aiui the so-called
feminine cloth products that say on the package, just throw in the
toilet, canNOT actually be thrown in the toilet or they clog the
toilet up. And how much more so the "feminine" products that DON'T
say they can be thrown in the toilet. No one does any of that here
either.

HB

On Wed, 9 Oct 2013 10:27:54 -0700 (PDT), Higgs Boson
wrote:

Any input welcome.

A couple of ideas to try that are cheaper than a plumber:

_Naturally Unclog A Drain With Vinegar, Baking Soda And Water_

http://thegoodhuman.com/2007/03/21/naturally-unclog-drain-with-vinegar/

Lowe's also sells and air blaster...

"Pump up the air drain blaster and pull trigger to release a burst of
air to clear clogs."

http://www.lowes.com/pd_105177-319-LX-00650_0__

YMMV

On 10/9/2013 1:27 PM, Higgs Boson wrote:
I have been in plumbing hell for the last few
months. One damn me$$ after another.

Now I ask your input on some procedure quoted to
me by Plumber A as
"Hydrojet". Supposed to clean around the interior
pipe rather than snake a hole though it (my
unscientific interpretation!).

Just checked with Plumber B who snaked my line
in *Feb*. Clogged up in *July*.
Plumber B snaked it again.

Two days later, had major work in bathroom done
by Plumber A. Kitchen clogged up again *5 days
later.* I was afraid something got stuck in there
from bathroom work by Plumber B. I've been letting
kitchen water run into driveway; afraid to investigate
whose "fault" it is if anyone, and how to fix problem.

Called Plumber A. They said no chance anything
stuck in line; they do not converge. Recommended
Hydrojet. They haven't followed through as promised.
End of THEM!

Called Plumber B (snaker). He said in 25 years
he had rarelu of ever used Hydrojet. He is coming
over to see. Says sometimes 2 snakings needed.

If a kitchen snake job can seize up IN A FEW DAYS
doesn't that mean something is radically wrong? Esp.
if it was snaked in Feb, then again in July? Normally
over [censored] years, I've only had to have it snaked
every few YEARS!

Who is scamming me, if anybody?

Does anyone agree with Plumber B (snaker) that Hydrojet
is not often needed?

Sorry for the length, but I have family coming
in 2 days and I don't want them to see mess in
driveway.

Any input welcome.

HB


Since you've had a couple snake jobs done, did you
watch what was done? I'd think to do my own small
hand snake job. Follow up with a load of crystal
Drano to try and dissolve some of the grease and
hair that often is found in drains.

Yes, that does sound rough.



..
Christopher A. Young
Learn about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

Higgs Boson wrote:
I have been in plumbing hell for the last few months. One damn me$$
after another.
Any input welcome.

HB

Galvanized drain pipes? If so, those things can get deposits where a snake
won't work. I actually took a section apart and heated with a cutting
torch to remove the minerals.

I know a snake can open the minerals somewhat, but they will clog right
back up.

You're probably a lot smarter than me, but don't make the mistake I recently did.

The kitchen sink blocked up.

And I stupidly used a plunger. Well, I've used one before on toilets and sinks, and usually there's no problem.

But this is our first house with a dishwasher, and it did not occur to me until too late these lines all connect. Doh, how else is the dishwasher going to drain? So when I plunged the sink, I forced all that cr@p into the dishwasher.

I ended up removing the trap and snaking it.

Higgs,

What maintenance do you do to your plumbing? How many people are in your
household?

Dave M.

On Wednesday, October 9, 2013 10:50:28 AM UTC-7, micky wrote:
On Wed, 9 Oct 2013 10:27:54 -0700 (PDT), Higgs Boson

wrote:



I have been in plumbing hell for the last few months. One damn me$$ after another.



Now I ask your input on some procedure quoted to me by Plumber A as

"Hydrojet". Supposed to clean around the interior pipe rather than snake a hole though it (my unscientific interpretation!).



Just checked with Plumber B who snaked my line in *Feb*. Clogged up in *July*.

Plumber B snaked it again.



Two days later, had major work in bathroom done by Plumber A. Kitchen clogged up again *5 days later.* I was afraid something got stuck in there from bathroom work by Plumber B. I've been letting kitchen water run into driveway; afraid to investigate whose "fault" it is if anyone, and how to fix problem.



Called Plumber A. They said no chance anything stuck in line; they do not converge. Recommended Hydrojet. They haven't followed through as promised.

End of THEM!



Called Plumber B (snaker). He said in 25 years he had rarelu of ever used Hydrojet. He is coming over to see. Says sometimes 2 snakings needed.



If a kitchen snake job can seize up IN A FEW DAYS doesn't that mean something is radically wrong? Esp. if it was snaked in Feb, then again in July? Normally over [censored] years, I've only had to have it snaked every few YEARS!



Who is scamming me, if anybody?



Does anyone agree with Plumber B (snaker) that Hydrojet is not often needed?



Sorry for the length, but I have family coming in 2 days and I don't want them to see mess in driveway.



Any input welcome.



All I can say is that I think I've seen hydro-jet done, for the sewer

that runs near the road, from house to house (townhouses fwliw)



They have water sprays coming out from the center pointing in maybe 10

directions, and another sprray pointing fowards, that slowly propels

the device in the other direction, or maybe they just reel it in.



They used this after the people at the top of the hill had trouble

draining their sinks. The plumber said he found a fat log in the

sewer, I guess made of fat that's liquid when the hot water is running

in the sink and is much nearer to hard when it hits the cold water in

the sewer. I think that's only happened once in tthe 30 years I've

been here, but individual houses have probably had clogged drains.



I myself have never had a clogged drain in the 60 years I can

remember, since I was 6 and lived with my parents and all the time

I've lived on my own. Or even a toilet where the water level rose

when I flushed it, let alone overflowed.



I don't let fat run into the kitchen sink.

I don' either. I scrape it into the trash.

I pour it in a jar with a

screw on lid, freeze it, and eventually throw it in the trash.

I

don't put anything but human waste and toilet paper (not Kleenex or

anything like Kleenex) in the toilet. Toilet paper is designed to

fall apart when wet. No other paper is. And aiui the so-called

feminine cloth products that say on the package, just throw in the

toilet, canNOT actually be thrown in the toilet or they clog the

toilet up. And how much more so the "feminine" products that DON'T

say they can be thrown in the toilet. No one does any of that here

either.

Glad you mentioned that! Many families do throw those "wipes" into the toilet because the label says OK. Our City sentout a notice a while back to that effect. DON'T!! So we fold it into paper towel or TP and put in bathroom bin.

On Wednesday, October 9, 2013 12:06:23 PM UTC-7, Curly Fikes wrote:
Higgs Boson wrote:

I have been in plumbing hell for the last few months. One damn me$$

after another.

Any input welcome.



HB


Galvanized drain pipes? If so, those things can get deposits where a snake

won't work. I actually took a section apart and heated with a cutting

torch to remove the minerals.

Plumber A said it was not metal, judging from where I unscrewed nut. But I don't remember having non-metal installed. I still think it's the old, old, old metal. Wish someone would tell me the truth.

Plumber A intimated that in the long run I'd have to have 50' of pipe replaced. 2K+.


I know a snake can open the minerals somewhat, but they will clog right

back up.

On Wednesday, October 9, 2013 1:31:09 PM UTC-7, TimR wrote:
You're probably a lot smarter than me, but don't make the mistake I recently did.



The kitchen sink blocked up.



And I stupidly used a plunger. Well, I've used one before on toilets and sinks, and usually there's no problem.



But this is our first house with a dishwasher, and it did not occur to me until too late these lines all connect. Doh, how else is the dishwasher going to drain? So when I plunged the sink, I forced all that cr@p into the dishwasher.



I ended up removing the trap and snaking it.

I DID just exactly that! Plunger.

Whether it contributed to Feb or to July snaking, I have no way to tell.

Earlier, I had the undersink pipe replaced because of a pinhole leak (very old pipe) so I don't think those operations were connected.

HB

On Wednesday, October 9, 2013 1:36:04 PM UTC-7, David L. Martel wrote:
Higgs,



What maintenance do you do to your plumbing? How many people are in your

household?



Dave M.

Very (*&^%#$%^^) little maintenance (not sure I understand what that involvers?) We only respond to emergencies. We DO take GREAT care to not put grease down sink, and in bathroom, to not put anything but paper and poop in toilet.

HB
Two in household

On Wed, 9 Oct 2013 16:36:04 -0400, "David L. Martel"
wrote:

Higgs,

What maintenance do you do to your plumbing? How many people are in your
household?

Dave M.


A good question is how she has " been letting kitchen water run into
driveway"?

On 10/9/2013 6:58 PM, Higgs Boson wrote:
Galvanized drain pipes? If so, those things can get deposits where a snake

won't work. I actually took a section apart and heated with a cutting

torch to remove the minerals.

Plumber A said it was not metal, judging from where I unscrewed nut. But I don't remember having non-metal installed. I still think it's the old, old, old metal. Wish someone would tell me the truth.

Plumber A intimated that in the long run I'd have to have 50' of pipe replaced. 2K+.

You can buy an electric drain reamer from HF
less than that cost.



..
Christopher A. Young
Learn about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

Higgs Boson wrote:
I have been in plumbing hell for the last few months. One
damn me$$
after another.

Now I ask your input on some procedure quoted to me by
Plumber A as
"Hydrojet". Supposed to clean around the interior pipe
rather than
snake a hole though it (my unscientific interpretation!).

Just checked with Plumber B who snaked my line in *Feb*.
Clogged up
in *July*.
Plumber B snaked it again.

Two days later, had major work in bathroom done by Plumber
A.
Kitchen clogged up again *5 days later.* I was afraid
something got
stuck in there from bathroom work by Plumber B. I've been
letting
kitchen water run into driveway; afraid to investigate
whose "fault"
it is if anyone, and how to fix problem.

Called Plumber A. They said no chance anything stuck in
line; they
do not converge. Recommended Hydrojet. They haven't
followed
through as promised.
End of THEM!

Called Plumber B (snaker). He said in 25 years he had
rarelu of ever
used Hydrojet. He is coming over to see. Says sometimes
2 snakings
needed.

If a kitchen snake job can seize up IN A FEW DAYS doesn't
that mean
something is radically wrong? Esp. if it was snaked in
Feb, then
again in July? Normally over [censored] years, I've only
had to have
it snaked every few YEARS!

Who is scamming me, if anybody?

Does anyone agree with Plumber B (snaker) that Hydrojet is
not often
needed?

Sorry for the length, but I have family coming in 2 days
and I don't
want them to see mess in driveway.

Any input welcome.

HB

Why has no one suggested running a camera down the drain to
see exactly what the cause of the clog is?
Or for that matter, the condition of the pipes

On Wed, 9 Oct 2013 10:27:54 -0700 (PDT), Higgs Boson
wrote:

I have been in plumbing hell for the last few months. One damn me$$ after another.

Now I ask your input on some procedure quoted to me by Plumber A as
"Hydrojet". Supposed to clean around the interior pipe rather than snake a hole though it (my unscientific interpretation!).

A friend had a plumber out for a clogged drain. He snaked, and when
that didn't work, he said he had to dig up the drain pipe in the front
yard.

My friend was about to pay him to do that when another friend of his
told him to call the county. The county came out and snaked the part
of the drain that they owned, from his drain pipe or some place, to
their bigger drain. Everything fine now. County pipes. No charge.

I don't if the pipes are arranged the same way in other places.
Though he lives on a street which is NOT scheduled to be widened ever,
afaict. I really don't know what pipes were the county pipes.

On Wednesday, October 9, 2013 10:27:54 AM UTC-7, Higgs Boson wrote:
I have been in plumbing hell for the last few months. One damn me$$ after another.



Now I ask your input on some procedure quoted to me by Plumber A as

"Hydrojet". Supposed to clean around the interior pipe rather than snake a hole though it (my unscientific interpretation!).



Just checked with Plumber B who snaked my line in *Feb*. Clogged up in *July*.

Plumber B snaked it again.



Two days later, had major work in bathroom done by Plumber A. Kitchen clogged up again *5 days later.* I was afraid something got stuck in there from bathroom work by Plumber B. I've been letting kitchen water run into driveway; afraid to investigate whose "fault" it is if anyone, and how to fix problem.



Called Plumber A. They said no chance anything stuck in line; they do not converge. Recommended Hydrojet. They haven't followed through as promised.

End of THEM!



Called Plumber B (snaker). He said in 25 years he had rarelu of ever used Hydrojet. He is coming over to see. Says sometimes 2 snakings needed.



If a kitchen snake job can seize up IN A FEW DAYS doesn't that mean something is radically wrong? Esp. if it was snaked in Feb, then again in July? Normally over [censored] years, I've only had to have it snaked every few YEARS!



Who is scamming me, if anybody?



Does anyone agree with Plumber B (snaker) that Hydrojet is not often needed?



Sorry for the length, but I have family coming in 2 days and I don't want them to see mess in driveway.



Any input welcome.



HB

1. What kind of tip did the snake have on its end? Was it a grease cutter head?
2. Is your vent clear? That’s the part that sticks over the roof.
3. Is it septic or city sewer?
4. Could your sewer pipe have a hole in it which would cause all the “juices” to leak out and leave the “solids” behind?

On Wed, 9 Oct 2013 18:50:03 -0700 (PDT), Higgs Boson
wrote:


Call in another plumber.

Yes. Have to ask neighbors for referrals. It may be, as you suggest, that both A & B saw me coming.

Maybe they're just at the limit of their knowledge, that is beyond the
limit. I think some plumbers are self-trained. After all, how
complicated could plumbing be! Just a bunch of pipes. You don't need
book-learnin' to understand pipes. I don't know if you can get a
license with that attitude and only self-training. I also don't know
if your guy has a license.

In the example I gave in the other post, he had done good work for
them before too. And I guess he was right that a pipe was clogged,
but there are only two counties around here, where this guy worked and
he should have known what the county plumbing folk will do for a
homeowner.

People rationalize their misbehaviour, that is, they convince
themselves they're not misbehaving. Just look at Congress, one or
both parties are misbehaving but no one thinks his party is.

S

Yet A did a creditable job both time$ I u$ed him. So now I am confused about what A & B are telling me hydrojet.


HB

Higgs,

One of the best bits of advice that I found on this group was that
plumbing needs maintenance. Glop sticks to pipes. If you don't remove the
glop, the pipes clog and it's snake time.
So let's deal with the glop. There are lots of products out there
designed for this. Your hardware store will stock a bunch. Drano is cheap.
These things are caustic so be careful. Clean your pipes every month.
Even cheaper is hot water. Once again a trick from this newsgroup. Set 2
large pots of water on the stove to boil. Run the hot water in the sink you
plan to clear. When the water is boiling turn off the running water and pour
the boiling water down the drain. Do each sink and tub about once a month.
Do NOT do the boiling water trick to your toilet, it may crack.
I use this and it has worked very well for me. 4 gallons of really hot
water dissolves the glop and moves the glop down the line.

Dave M.

On 10/9/2013 12:27 PM, Higgs Boson wrote:
I have been in plumbing hell for the last few months. One damn
me$$ after another.

Now I ask your input on some procedure quoted to me by Plumber A
as "Hydrojet". Supposed to clean around the interior pipe rather
than snake a hole though it (my unscientific interpretation!).

Do a little googling on the Hydro Jet. Sounds like it is indeed the
option of next-to-last resort for a lot of troublesome drainage
issues, and that it can be pretty effective. Apparently, when the
right head (the root rat and warthog heads were mentioned) is used
with the hydrojet, it can even do a better job of root removal than
the conventional root removal process w/cutter head.

It does look like prices and guarantees vary wildly. You probably want
to find a few plumbers in your area that perform the service, find out
what their procedure includes (for example, do they perform a
before-and-after camera examination of the line), and what their
guarantee is.

I guess if it were me, and if you've been quoted $2k to replace the
kitchen line from the sink to the main sewer line, I'd consider hydro
jetting *if* it included before and after camera inspection, came with
a minimum 90 day guarantee, and if it cost no more than $500. Any more
expensive than that, I'd just say the hell with it and replace the pipes.

On 10/9/2013 8:20 PM, Curly Fikes wrote:
"Higgs Boson" wrote in message
...
On Wednesday, October 9, 2013 12:06:23 PM UTC-7, Curly Fikes wrote:
Higgs Boson wrote:

I have been in plumbing hell for the last few months. One damn me$$
after another.
Any input welcome.


Galvanized drain pipes? If so, those things can get deposits where a
snake

won't work.

They also decay over time, which can lead to a section of the pipe
collapsing and thus causing a blockage. Which is what happened with my
previous kitchen drain line.


Plumber A intimated that in the long run I'd have to have 50' of pipe
replaced. 2K+.

Best to try plumber C. I can't imagine a kitchen pipe running 50' to a 3
or 4" waste.

Mine is almost that long. The kitchen sink is on the opposite end of
the house from the main waste line. The drain line runs at a slight
angle from the sink, down the basement wall, underneath the basement
floor to about eight feet from the opposite wall, where it joins the
main waste pipe. A section of the old galvanized pipe rotted away away
about twelve feet from where it started its run underneath the cement
slab. I ended up having the entire kitchen waste line replaced. Since
it involved cutting a thirty-foot trench in the basement floor to lay
a new line, it was quite expensive, somewhere between $3-$4K ten years
ago. The plumbers assured me that opening the floor would be an
eight-hour job. I knew better; my dad had (over)built the house
himself. It took over three days for them just to cut the trench. In
total, the better part of a week on the whole job, hence the expense.
(Not including the time I took off from work to help them. I just
wanted to get it over and done with asap.)

On Thursday, October 10, 2013 3:45:33 AM UTC-7, micky wrote:
On Wed, 9 Oct 2013 18:50:03 -0700 (PDT), Higgs Boson

wrote:

Call in another plumber.


Yes. Have to ask neighbors for referrals. It may be, as you suggest, that both A & B saw me coming.

Maybe they're just at the limit of their knowledge, that is beyond the

limit. I think some plumbers are self-trained. After all, how

complicated could plumbing be! Just a bunch of pipes. You don't need

book-learnin' to understand pipes. I don't know if you can get a

license with that attitude and only self-training. I also don't know

if your guy has a license.

I always check. He has a licence # on his truck & Web site. It's Mr. Speedy, a franchise, but come to think of it, consumers are supposed to check with the licensing bureau to see if it's current. The friend who referred him is married to architect/contractor who has used him on big jobs. So I assume his bona fides are in order. But I cannot forgive tradespeople who just don't bother to call -- which is by now more the rule than the exception.

I am righteously ticked off at Plumber A. His man took $39.95 from me just to come out and look at it. He said he would be back later that day with Hydrojet.
Never came. I called; they said they would put boss on the phone. Never happened.

Here's how I feel: I had a verbal contract with this outfit that the $39.95 would go against final cost of job. I'm going to write to the Calif licensing bureau to file a complaint and demand a refund for breach of contract..

HB



In the example I gave in the other post, he had done good work for

them before too. And I guess he was right that a pipe was clogged,

but there are only two counties around here, where this guy worked and

he should have known what the county plumbing folk will do for a

homeowner.

People rationalize their misbehaviour, that is, they convince

themselves they're not misbehaving. Just look at Congress, one or

both parties are misbehaving but no one thinks his party is.

Er..let's not get into Congress and gerrymandering...I'm upset enuff w/plumbing!


Yet A did a creditable job both time$ I u$ed him. So now I am confused about what A & B are telling me hydrojet.

HB

On Thursday, October 10, 2013 3:14:01 AM UTC-7, wrote:
On Wednesday, October 9, 2013 10:27:54 AM UTC-7, Higgs Boson wrote:

I have been in plumbing hell for the last few months. One damn me$$ after another.



Now I ask your input on some procedure quoted to me by Plumber A as



"Hydrojet". Supposed to clean around the interior pipe rather than snake a hole though it (my unscientific interpretation!).



Just checked with Plumber B who snaked my line in *Feb*. Clogged up in *July*.



Plumber B snaked it again.




Two days later, had major work in bathroom done by Plumber A. Kitchen clogged up again *5 days later.* I was afraid something got stuck in there from bathroom work by Plumber B. I've been letting kitchen water run into driveway; afraid to investigate whose "fault" it is if anyone, and how to fix problem.



Called Plumber A. They said no chance anything stuck in line; they do not converge. Recommended Hydrojet. They haven't followed through as promised.



End of THEM!





Called Plumber B (snaker). He said in 25 years he had rarelu of ever used Hydrojet. He is coming over to see. Says sometimes 2 snakings needed..



If a kitchen snake job can seize up IN A FEW DAYS doesn't that mean something is radically wrong? Esp. if it was snaked in Feb, then again in July? Normally over [censored] years, I've only had to have it snaked every few YEARS!




Who is scamming me, if anybody?



Does anyone agree with Plumber B (snaker) that Hydrojet is not often needed?



Sorry for the length, but I have family coming in 2 days and I don't want them to see mess in driveway.


Any input welcome.


HB



1. What kind of tip did the snake have on its end? Was it a grease cutter head?

Sorry, didn't notice on either of his two trips. Will bring it up to him today.-

2. Is your vent clear? That’s the part that sticks over the roof.

Can I assume so if bathroom and washing machine work ok?

3. Is it septic or city sewer?

City

4. Could your sewer pipe have a hole in it which would cause all the “juices” to leak out and leave the “solids” behind?

OMG I hope not. Would this apply even if bathroom and washing machine run OK?
*****Pls explain; TIA.
HB

On Thursday, October 10, 2013 2:40:22 AM UTC-7, micky wrote:
On Wed, 9 Oct 2013 10:27:54 -0700 (PDT), Higgs Boson

wrote:



I have been in plumbing hell for the last few months. One damn me$$ after another.



Now I ask your input on some procedure quoted to me by Plumber A as

"Hydrojet". Supposed to clean around the interior pipe rather than snake a hole though it (my unscientific interpretation!).



A friend had a plumber out for a clogged drain. He snaked, and when

that didn't work, he said he had to dig up the drain pipe in the front

yard.



My friend was about to pay him to do that when another friend of his

told him to call the county. The county came out and snaked the part

of the drain that they owned, from his drain pipe or some place, to

their bigger drain. Everything fine now. County pipes. No charge.



I don't if the pipes are arranged the same way in other places.

Though he lives on a street which is NOT scheduled to be widened ever,

afaict. I really don't know what pipes were the county pipes.

Wow! When was that? Every govt. institution so broke because of sequester that I don't know... if snaker + video doesn't do it, I may inquire. Thanks.

HB

On Wednesday, October 9, 2013 9:17:16 PM UTC-7, ChairMan wrote:
Higgs Boson wrote:

I have been in plumbing hell for the last few months. One

damn me$$

after another.



Now I ask your input on some procedure quoted to me by

Plumber A as

"Hydrojet". Supposed to clean around the interior pipe

rather than

snake a hole though it (my unscientific interpretation!).



Just checked with Plumber B who snaked my line in *Feb*.

Clogged up

in *July*.

Plumber B snaked it again.



Two days later, had major work in bathroom done by Plumber

A.

Kitchen clogged up again *5 days later.* I was afraid

something got

stuck in there from bathroom work by Plumber B. I've been

letting

kitchen water run into driveway; afraid to investigate

whose "fault"

it is if anyone, and how to fix problem.



Called Plumber A. They said no chance anything stuck in

line; they

do not converge. Recommended Hydrojet. They haven't

followed

through as promised.

End of THEM!



Called Plumber B (snaker). He said in 25 years he had

rarelu of ever

used Hydrojet. He is coming over to see. Says sometimes

2 snakings

needed.



If a kitchen snake job can seize up IN A FEW DAYS doesn't

that mean

something is radically wrong? Esp. if it was snaked in

Feb, then

again in July? Normally over [censored] years, I've only

had to have

it snaked every few YEARS!



Who is scamming me, if anybody?



Does anyone agree with Plumber B (snaker) that Hydrojet is

not often

needed?



Sorry for the length, but I have family coming in 2 days

and I don't

want them to see mess in driveway.



Any input welcome.



HB



Why has no one suggested running a camera down the drain to

see exactly what the cause of the clog is?

Or for that matter, the condition of the pipes

I have been thinking that way. Snake-er finally coming today. He has video.
Will ask him. He earlier said "sometimes it takes more than one [snake]. But I agree with you; I need to know whatthehellis going on.


HB

On Thu, 10 Oct 2013 08:27:51 -0400, "David L. Martel"
wrote:

Higgs,

One of the best bits of advice that I found on this group was that
plumbing needs maintenance. Glop sticks to pipes. If you don't remove the
glop, the pipes clog and it's snake time.
So let's deal with the glop. There are lots of products out there
designed for this. Your hardware store will stock a bunch. Drano is cheap.
These things are caustic so be careful. Clean your pipes every month.

My mother had never used Drano or anything like it, in her life.
When she was old she moved to an apartment. When she away, the
tenants on the floor above poured Drano in their kitchen sink and it
backed up into my mother's, eating holes almost clear through the
bottom of the dutch oven she liked so much. I don't think any went
clear through, but the metal was thin in many places, and that would
make hot spots, undoing the purpose of the dutch oven.


Even cheaper is hot water. Once again a trick from this newsgroup. Set 2
large pots of water on the stove to boil. Run the hot water in the sink you
plan to clear. When the water is boiling turn off the running water and pour
the boiling water down the drain. Do each sink and tub about once a month.
Do NOT do the boiling water trick to your toilet, it may crack.
I use this and it has worked very well for me. 4 gallons of really hot
water dissolves the glop and moves the glop down the line.

Dave M.

On Thu, 10 Oct 2013 13:09:19 -0700 (PDT), Higgs Boson
wrote:

On Thursday, October 10, 2013 3:45:33 AM UTC-7, micky wrote:
On Wed, 9 Oct 2013 18:50:03 -0700 (PDT), Higgs Boson

wrote:

Call in another plumber.


Yes. Have to ask neighbors for referrals. It may be, as you suggest, that both A & B saw me coming.

Maybe they're just at the limit of their knowledge, that is beyond the

limit. I think some plumbers are self-trained. After all, how

complicated could plumbing be! Just a bunch of pipes. You don't need

book-learnin' to understand pipes. I don't know if you can get a

license with that attitude and only self-training. I also don't know

if your guy has a license.

I always check. He has a licence # on his truck & Web site. It's Mr. Speedy, a franchise, but come to think of it, consumers are supposed to check with the licensing bureau to see if it's current. The friend who referred him is married to architect/contractor who has used him on big jobs. So I assume his bona fides are in order. But I cannot forgive tradespeople who just don't bother to call -- which is by now more the rule than the exception.

I am righteously ticked off at Plumber A. His man took $39.95 from me just to come out and look at it. He said he would be back later that day with Hydrojet.
Never came. I called; they said they would put boss on the phone. Never happened.

Here's how I feel: I had a verbal contract with this outfit that the $39.95 would go against final cost of job. I'm going to write to the Calif licensing bureau to file a complaint and demand a refund for breach of contract.

I woudl call the company first. They're not going to want to give the
money back, and they can't apply it to the hydrojet if you do that
somewhere else, but they can't expect to apply it if they never came
back or called back.

I know you called them once already when they didnt' come back, but
that was for something different. I would call them about the refund
and give them a chance before dragging their name through the mud at
the bureau. it will take 5 minutes. If he's not there, I'd leave a
complete message.

HB



In the example I gave in the other post, he had done good work for

them before too. And I guess he was right that a pipe was clogged,

but there are only two counties around here, where this guy worked and

he should have known what the county plumbing folk will do for a

homeowner.

People rationalize their misbehaviour, that is, they convince

themselves they're not misbehaving. Just look at Congress, one or

both parties are misbehaving but no one thinks his party is.

Er..let's not get into Congress and gerrymandering...I'm upset enuff w/plumbing!

Good point.


Yet A did a creditable job both time$ I u$ed him. So now I am confused about what A & B are telling me hydrojet.

HB

On Thu, 10 Oct 2013 13:11:44 -0700 (PDT), Higgs Boson
wrote:


I don't know if the pipes are arranged the same way in other places.

Though he lives on a street which is NOT scheduled to be widened ever,

So why would there be county pipes for each house?

afaict. I really don't know what pipes were the county pipes.

Wow! When was that?

2 or 3 years ago.

Every govt. institution so broke because of sequester that I don't know... if snaker + video doesn't do it, I may inquire. Thanks.

HB

On Thursday, October 10, 2013 1:15:56 PM UTC-7, micky wrote:
On Thu, 10 Oct 2013 08:27:51 -0400, "David L. Martel"

wrote:



Higgs,



One of the best bits of advice that I found on this group was that

plumbing needs maintenance. Glop sticks to pipes. If you don't remove the

glop, the pipes clog and it's snake time.

So let's deal with the glop. There are lots of products out there

designed for this. Your hardware store will stock a bunch. Drano is cheap.

These things are caustic so be careful. Clean your pipes every month.



My mother had never used Drano or anything like it, in her life.

When she was old she moved to an apartment. When she away, the

tenants on the floor above poured Drano in their kitchen sink and it

backed up into my mother's, eating holes almost clear through the

bottom of the dutch oven she liked so much. I don't think any went

clear through, but the metal was thin in many places, and that would

make hot spots, undoing the purpose of the dutch oven.





Even cheaper is hot water. Once again a trick from this newsgroup. Set 2

large pots of water on the stove to boil. Run the hot water in the sink you

plan to clear. When the water is boiling turn off the running water and pour

the boiling water down the drain. Do each sink and tub about once a month.

Do NOT do the boiling water trick to your toilet, it may crack.

I use this and it has worked very well for me. 4 gallons of really hot

water dissolves the glop and moves the glop down the line.



Dave M.

Dave, this is excellent advice. I have been delinquent, and after this particular war is over, I will mark my calendar to be SURE I do monthly maintenance.

HOWEVER, you suggest products such as Drano. I have been told more than once that plumbers LOVE to have you use this stuff because it makes work for them.
So I hadn't been using it for maintenance.

What were my interlocutors talking about? Can you clarify? TIA

HB

On Thursday, October 10, 2013 1:36:09 PM UTC-7, micky wrote:
On Thu, 10 Oct 2013 13:09:19 -0700 (PDT), Higgs Boson

wrote:



On Thursday, October 10, 2013 3:45:33 AM UTC-7, micky wrote:

On Wed, 9 Oct 2013 18:50:03 -0700 (PDT), Higgs Boson



wrote:



Call in another plumber.





Yes. Have to ask neighbors for referrals. It may be, as you suggest, that both A & B saw me coming.



Maybe they're just at the limit of their knowledge, that is beyond the



limit. I think some plumbers are self-trained. After all, how



complicated could plumbing be! Just a bunch of pipes. You don't need



book-learnin' to understand pipes. I don't know if you can get a



license with that attitude and only self-training. I also don't know



if your guy has a license.



I always check. He has a licence # on his truck & Web site. It's Mr. Speedy, a franchise, but come to think of it, consumers are supposed to check with the licensing bureau to see if it's current. The friend who referred him is married to architect/contractor who has used him on big jobs. So I assume his bona fides are in order. But I cannot forgive tradespeople who just don't bother to call -- which is by now more the rule than the exception.



I am righteously ticked off at Plumber A. His man took $39.95 from me just to come out and look at it. He said he would be back later that day with Hydrojet.

Never came. I called; they said they would put boss on the phone. Never happened.



Here's how I feel: I had a verbal contract with this outfit that the $39.95 would go against final cost of job. I'm going to write to the Calif licensing bureau to file a complaint and demand a refund for breach of contract.



I woudl call the company first. They're not going to want to give the

money back, and they can't apply it to the hydrojet if you do that

somewhere else, but they can't expect to apply it if they never came

back or called back.



I know you called them once already when they didnt' come back, but

that was for something different. I would call them about the refund

and give them a chance before dragging their name through the mud at

the bureau. it will take 5 minutes. If he's not there, I'd leave a

complete message.

You're right - sigh! It's just that I am terrible on the phone, but much better in writing. I guess I'll have to write them a "polite" letter requesting the refund because contract not completed. If they don't repay me, then I'll go to the Licensing Board.

There is just NO excuse for blowing me off like that, especially when it was framed as a very urgent matter. Now my family members will be exposed to that filthy mess in the driveway...!

HB







In the example I gave in the other post, he had done good work for



them before too. And I guess he was right that a pipe was clogged,



but there are only two counties around here, where this guy worked and



he should have known what the county plumbing folk will do for a



homeowner.



People rationalize their misbehaviour, that is, they convince



themselves they're not misbehaving. Just look at Congress, one or



both parties are misbehaving but no one thinks his party is.



Er..let's not get into Congress and gerrymandering...I'm upset enuff w/plumbing!



Good point.





Yet A did a creditable job both time$ I u$ed him. So now I am confused about what A & B are telling me hydrojet.



HB

Higgs,

I use the hot water trick. I have no knowledge of the debate on drain
cleaning products. Drano was popular when I was young so I mentioned it but
did not mean it as a recommendation. You should look at the products and
decide if you want to use them.
I've no idea what you wish me to clarify. I glanced briefly at some of
the other replys but saw nothing that interested me.

Dave M.

On Thu, 10 Oct 2013 16:15:56 -0400, micky
wrote:

On Thu, 10 Oct 2013 08:27:51 -0400, "David L. Martel"
wrote:

Higgs,

One of the best bits of advice that I found on this group was that
plumbing needs maintenance. Glop sticks to pipes. If you don't remove the
glop, the pipes clog and it's snake time.
So let's deal with the glop. There are lots of products out there
designed for this. Your hardware store will stock a bunch. Drano is cheap.
These things are caustic so be careful. Clean your pipes every month.

My mother had never used Drano or anything like it, in her life.
When she was old she moved to an apartment. When she away, the
tenants on the floor above poured Drano in their kitchen sink and it
backed up into my mother's, eating holes almost clear through the
bottom of the dutch oven she liked so much. I don't think any went
clear through, but the metal was thin in many places, and that would
make hot spots, undoing the purpose of the dutch oven.

Not buying it. Sodium Hydroxide (Drano) is an alkali, not an acid so
it shouldn't attack cast iron at all (indeed, it's used to clean cast
iron). If it rotted out cast iron that fast it wouldn't make much of
a drain cleaner.

The boiling water down the drain should be tried first. Then, any one of the caustic drain openers. If that doesn't work, then its a plumber with a snake and camera so you can find out what's happening. Once you tell us what the camera shows, we can give you good advice on what to do to prevent the problem from reoccurring.

On Thursday, October 10, 2013 8:15:21 PM UTC-7, wrote:
The boiling water down the drain should be tried first. Then, any one of the caustic drain openers. If that doesn't work, then its a plumber with a snake and camera so you can find out what's happening. Once you tell us what the camera shows, we can give you good advice on what to do to prevent the problem from reoccurring.

I asked Patrick if he needed to use the video, and he said it would be expensive & not needed. I'm still trying to get my head around an honest plumber*, after exposure to those other expensive guys who blew me off.

He also commented that the Hydrojet is used in circumstances very different from my kitchen drain problem. Something about street connections? I was so emotional I didn't get the full sense of it -- except that the other one -- the Mr. Speedy guy who proposed using it -- either didn't know what he was doing, or was trying to game me.

*No offense, amigos, but I have been through a lot, perhaps much of it my own fault because I was too chicken to find out whose "fault" it was, if anybody's.

On Thursday, October 10, 2013 5:31:18 PM UTC-7, David L. Martel wrote:
Higgs,



I use the hot water trick. I have no knowledge of the debate on drain

cleaning products. Drano was popular when I was young so I mentioned it but

did not mean it as a recommendation. You should look at the products and

decide if you want to use them.

I've no idea what you wish me to clarify. I glanced briefly at some of

the other replys but saw nothing that interested me.



Dave M.

Thanks, Dave. I asked the snaker, Plumber B, (who didn't charge me to check the line today!) and he said there were two types of Drano. The one with sulfuric acid, he said, is basically bleach, and used for "soft" clogs, so you might as well pour bleach down drain. I haven't had a chance to check the other kind.

He strongly re-emphasized no grease down line. I don't, so I dunno why it glopped up. But I'm getting after the other person in the household, who might not be so careful, to keep grease out.

I will try the boiling water once a month, and hope this is it for a while.

What I like about Patrick, Plumber B (who it turns out lives nearby) is that he is independent, not a franchisee of a big company. He shot down every idea propo$ed by Plumber A (from Mr. $peedy), about Hydrojet, replacing pipe, and on & on. Gave commonsense advice, and said don't wait so long to call me.

Interesting: I asked why, if he just snaked kitchen on July 17, did it clog up again approx s week later. He said maybe a piece got knocked loose & blocked drain. I should have called him right away.

Said he felt something break loose at 10 feet today, so that might have been it. He answered another question asked by youse guys: Yes, he had used a "grease" type bit earlier, and yes, it did clean around the sides of the pipe.

I'm so glad family arriving tomorrow will NOT be greeted by horrible sight in driveway.

MANY THANKS TO THE PROS WHO "HELD MY HAND' THROUGH THIS MESS.

HB

You can do the boiking water in 15 minutes. Two or more gallons of boiling water will loosen up anything that may be grease related. If that doesn't work, a couple of gallons of liquid drain cleaner poured down the drain and allowed to sit for at least 4 hours should help loosen anything short of solid metals or concrete.

If those two ideas/tricks don't work, I think it is time to pay for a video camera scan of the line, with you in attendance to see exactly what the plumber sees. It would be good to price a couple of plumbers with cameras to see if they are at least in the same ball park.

On Thu, 10 Oct 2013 13:11:14 -0700 (PDT), Higgs Boson
wrote:


2. Is your vent clear? That’s the part that sticks over the roof.

Can I assume so if bathroom and washing machine work ok?

A lot of houses have two vents. If your bathroom and washing machine
are roughly above and below your kitchen sink, they would share the
same vent. My little townhouse has 2 bathrooms above the kitchen
which is above the basement laundry sink.

But it still has another vent for the powder room, only. So having
two vents doesn't mean that the answer to your question isn't Yes.

On Thu, 10 Oct 2013 13:48:25 -0700 (PDT), Higgs Boson
wrote:


I woudl call the company first. They're not going to want to give the

money back, and they can't apply it to the hydrojet if you do that

somewhere else, but they can't expect to apply it if they never came

back or called back.



I know you called them once already when they didnt' come back, but

that was for something different. I would call them about the refund

and give them a chance before dragging their name through the mud at

the bureau. it will take 5 minutes. If he's not there, I'd leave a

complete message.

You're right - sigh! It's just that I am terrible on the phone, but much better in writing. I guess I'll have to write them a "polite" letter

A letter or email is fine (You can call the office and the secretary
or anyone who answers will most likely give you their email address.
It might be on the bill. If this were a legally required
communication, I'd push for a letter, but it's not.)

"Polite" means no profanity, no personal insults (though you can call
the work below par, etc. ) and no threats to kill them or set fire to
their trucks. It doesn't mean you have to be sappy. It doesn't have
to be angry either, although maybe a little anger wouldn't hurt,
enough to make them believe your serious about going to the licensing
board. (A lot of people cool off and never do what they threaten.)

What are the favorite words some columnist recommended? Something
like disappointed and dismayed. But I think that was just when a box
of food wasn't very good, not when they've failed to come back or call
back. That might deserve harsher words.

requesting the refund because contract not completed. If they don't repay me, then I'll go to the Licensing Board.

There is just NO excuse for blowing me off like that, especially when it was framed as a very urgent matter. Now my family members will be exposed to that filthy mess in the driveway...!

That's the attitude, but between you and me, can't you wash that away
witht he garden hose. It's been raining here for 3 days.

HB

On Thu, 10 Oct 2013 20:39:09 -0700 (PDT), Higgs Boson
wrote:


I'm so glad family arriving tomorrow will NOT be greeted by horrible sight in driveway.

A month after I bought this house, only 4 years old, I had several
people come for July 4 weekend. It was hot. Noon on Saturday the
AC, failed, 9PM the water failed, Noon on Sunday the electricity
failed. Nothing got fixed until after they all left.

**The AC was a coincidence I guess. The little AC transformer that
powered the control box failed.
***The water must have been a coincidence too, though we have had 10
of them in 30 years because the original water mains, under the
streets, were not flexible like they should have been. A heavy truck
pushing one against a piece of big gravel is enough to cause a leak.
****The power failed because everyone else was using their AC.

MANY THANKS TO THE PROS WHO "HELD MY HAND' THROUGH THIS MESS.

HB

FTR, I'm no pro.

On Thu, 10 Oct 2013 20:42:38 -0400, wrote:

On Thu, 10 Oct 2013 16:15:56 -0400, micky
wrote:

On Thu, 10 Oct 2013 08:27:51 -0400, "David L. Martel"
wrote:

Higgs,

One of the best bits of advice that I found on this group was that
plumbing needs maintenance. Glop sticks to pipes. If you don't remove the
glop, the pipes clog and it's snake time.
So let's deal with the glop. There are lots of products out there
designed for this. Your hardware store will stock a bunch. Drano is cheap.
These things are caustic so be careful. Clean your pipes every month.

My mother had never used Drano or anything like it, in her life.
When she was old she moved to an apartment. When she away, the
tenants on the floor above poured Drano in their kitchen sink and it
backed up into my mother's, eating holes almost clear through the
bottom of the dutch oven she liked so much. I don't think any went
clear through, but the metal was thin in many places, and that would
make hot spots, undoing the purpose of the dutch oven.

Not buying it. Sodium Hydroxide (Drano) is an alkali, not an acid so
it shouldn't attack cast iron at all (indeed, it's used to clean cast
iron).

When it's put on for a couple minutes and rinsed off, right?

If it rotted out cast iron that fast it wouldn't make much of
a drain cleaner.

So what could they have used instead?

On 10/10/2013 11:39 PM, Higgs Boson wrote:
Thanks, Dave. I asked the snaker, Plumber B, (who
didn't charge me to check the line today!) and he
said there were two types of Drano. The one with
sulfuric acid, he said, is basically bleach, and used
for "soft" clogs, so you might as well pour bleach
down drain. I haven't had a chance to check the other
kind.

He strongly re-emphasized no grease down line. I don't,
so I dunno why it glopped up. But I'm getting after the
other person in the household, who might not be so careful,
to keep grease out.

I will try the boiling water once a month, and hope this
is it for a while.

What I like about Patrick, Plumber B (who it turns out
lives nearby) is that he is independent, not a franchisee
of a big company. He shot down every idea propo$ed by
Plumber A (from Mr. $peedy), about Hydrojet, replacing
pipe, and on & on. Gave commonsense advice, and said
don't wait so long to call me.

Interesting: I asked why, if he just snaked kitchen on
July 17, did it clog up again approx s week later. He said
maybe a piece got knocked loose & blocked drain. I should
have called him right away.

Said he felt something break loose at 10 feet today, so
that might have been it. He answered another question asked
by youse guys: Yes, he had used a "grease" type bit earlier,
and yes, it did clean around the sides of the pipe.

I'm so glad family arriving tomorrow will NOT be greeted by
horrible sight in driveway.

MANY THANKS TO THE PROS WHO "HELD MY HAND' THROUGH THIS MESS.

HB


From my chemistry background, sulfuric acid and bleach are two very,
very different chemicals. And they do very, very different things.

My experience with drain cleaners, there are basically two kinds,
acid and alkalai.

Acid (sulfuric, or hydrochloric) work best on calcium lime scale.
They change calcium oxide or hydroxide into calcium sulphate, or
hydrochloride. Calcium sulphate is not water soluble, the hydro-chloride
is. So, with hydrochloric, it changes into a chemical
that washes down the drain.

This is much different than the sodium hypochlorite which is
bleach.

One apartment manager near me tells me that the sulfuric acid stuff
works great also on grease and hair clogs. Sulfuric acid is very
dangerous to skin, eyes, etc. It also destroys natural fibers like
cotton. Treat it like toxic waste, wash hands after using, etc.

The alkalai drain cleaners like "crystal drano" work by turning grease
into soap, also called saponification. Crystal Drano would work on
kitchen grease clogs, or soap and hair from the shower drain.


..
Christopher A. Young
Learn about Jesus
www.lds.org
..