Hello all -

I may be buying a house before too long, and a few questions
about installing air conditioning into a home that lacks it.
House will be ranch-style, 1600-1900 sq. ft. I have no house
in particular picked out yet, but some I'm interested would
be fine -- EXCEPT for the fact that they were not built with
air conditioning.

I'm wondering about the pros/cons of installing a "mini
split" system (with multiple "room units" or perhaps more
than one mini split unit), vis-a-vis going for central air...?

Just from casual browsing, it looks like mini split would be
considerably cheaper and easier to install than a full
central air system with ducting, etc. (the latter probably
involving a LOT of wall/floor work as well).

Is central air worth paying the extra $$$ and installation work?
Or can mini split do as good a job, have equal reliability,
etc.?

I'm also wondering if pre-existing ducting in some homes
that have either oil or gas hot air, could also be used with
a central air system?

Actually, if I found the right place with pre-existing
ducting, I might even consider going to a full geothermal
system. But that's a different topic.

Thanks,
- John

On Friday, August 23, 2013 12:52:36 PM UTC-4, John Albert wrote:
Hello all -



I may be buying a house before too long, and a few questions

about installing air conditioning into a home that lacks it.

House will be ranch-style, 1600-1900 sq. ft. I have no house

in particular picked out yet, but some I'm interested would

be fine -- EXCEPT for the fact that they were not built with

air conditioning.



I'm wondering about the pros/cons of installing a "mini

split" system (with multiple "room units" or perhaps more

than one mini split unit), vis-a-vis going for central air...?



Just from casual browsing, it looks like mini split would be

considerably cheaper and easier to install than a full

central air system with ducting, etc. (the latter probably

involving a LOT of wall/floor work as well).



It depends on the house, what it already has, and how easy
or hard it is to run ducts. If the house has forced air
heating, then generally no new ducts are required. If it
has hot water heat, then a lot of ducts are required. How
much work that is depends on the layout of the house, ie
basement, crawlspace, etc.




Is central air worth paying the extra $$$ and installation work?

Or can mini split do as good a job, have equal reliability,

etc.?



MS is good for areas. One room or a few rooms. If you need
and want to cool the whole house, as most people do, then
central is what's needed. MS or even window AC can be used
as a supplement to central AC. If you have a room that has
a lot of sun exposure, isn't being cooled adequately by central,
or a room you spend a lot of time it, etc.

But if you're in an area with periods of high humidity, nothing
beats central air.



I'm also wondering if pre-existing ducting in some homes

that have either oil or gas hot air, could also be used with

a central air system?



Yes, they always are. Another option you should look at is the
new high velocity systems. They use air under pressure through
like 1.5" hoses to deliver it. They are more expensive, but might
be viable for a retrofit, because they use those hoses, not ducts.





Actually, if I found the right place with pre-existing

ducting, I might even consider going to a full geothermal

system. But that's a different topic.


Yes, it sure is.

Thanks,

- John

On Fri, 23 Aug 2013 12:52:36 -0400, John Albert
wrote:

I may be buying a house before too long, and a few questions
about installing air conditioning into a home that lacks it.

John,

What region do you live in? Homes north of NAPA Valley, CA often have
no HVAC at all - in any form.

I can easily see a price of $25,00 plus, for a retrofit that needs
ducts, and a high SEER unit (14-16 SEER).

On 8/23/2013 12:52 PM, John Albert wrote:
Hello all -

I may be buying a house before too long, and a few questions about
installing air conditioning into a home that lacks it. House will be
ranch-style, 1600-1900 sq. ft. I have no house in particular picked out
yet, but some I'm interested would be fine -- EXCEPT for the fact that
they were not built with air conditioning.

I'm wondering about the pros/cons of installing a "mini split" system
(with multiple "room units" or perhaps more than one mini split unit),
vis-a-vis going for central air...?

Just from casual browsing, it looks like mini split would be
considerably cheaper and easier to install than a full central air
system with ducting, etc. (the latter probably involving a LOT of
wall/floor work as well).

Is central air worth paying the extra $$$ and installation work?
Or can mini split do as good a job, have equal reliability, etc.?

I'm also wondering if pre-existing ducting in some homes that have
either oil or gas hot air, could also be used with a central air system?

Actually, if I found the right place with pre-existing ducting, I might
even consider going to a full geothermal system. But that's a different
topic.

Thanks,
- John

I don't have any technical knowledge about this. I can say that about 12
years ago, I had central AC added to my 1950s row house (basement plus 2
stories). The house had forced hot air, which the local utilities
company used. At the time they warned me that the outcome would be that
it would cool the 1st floor living area fine, but not so much the top
floor. They were right, although it was definitely an improvement over
what it had been like with no AC. I forget now how expensive it was, but
they used the existing duct work and fan etc which helped to defray the
costs.

Now I'm in a small 2 bedroom ranch that has central air. I'm almost
positive that was an add-on as well since it's also a 1950's house. It
does cool the house well, presumably because it's not trying to push air
uphill. There is one floor vent in a bedroom that looks out of place
and a return up on a hall wall, so they may have run some additional
duct work, but I don't know.

FWIW, one of the houses that I looked at in this area (most of the
houses in this neighborhood are identical) had been renovated and they'd
put the AC (or maybe it was a heat pump?) in the attic. That seemed to
work fairly well from what I could tell at the open house.

Per :
new high velocity systems. They use air under pressure through
like 1.5" hoses to deliver it. They are more expensive, but might
be viable for a retrofit, because they use those hoses, not ducts.

My parent's place had a system where the air was delivered through what
looked tb 1.5 or 2" hoses. It was a retrofit.

I found the noise to be irritating enough that I would never have one
installed in a house that I had to live in.


We recently re-did our system so that it has three zones: bedrooms,
living room/kitchen, and rec room.

If I ever built a house, I would have a zone for each room and doors to
enforce the zones.

My thinking is that hard times are coming fuel cost-wise and more zones
would allow one to cut back heating/cooling to just a couple of rooms -
or even just one - if the need arose.
--
Pete Cresswell

On 8/23/2013 12:18 PM, wrote:
On Friday, August 23, 2013 12:52:36 PM UTC-4, John Albert wrote:
Hello all -



I may be buying a house before too long, and a few questions

about installing air conditioning into a home that lacks it.

House will be ranch-style, 1600-1900 sq. ft. I have no house

in particular picked out yet, but some I'm interested would

be fine -- EXCEPT for the fact that they were not built with

air conditioning.



I'm wondering about the pros/cons of installing a "mini

split" system (with multiple "room units" or perhaps more

than one mini split unit), vis-a-vis going for central air...?



Just from casual browsing, it looks like mini split would be

considerably cheaper and easier to install than a full

central air system with ducting, etc. (the latter probably

involving a LOT of wall/floor work as well).



It depends on the house, what it already has, and how easy
or hard it is to run ducts. If the house has forced air
heating, then generally no new ducts are required. If it
has hot water heat, then a lot of ducts are required. How
much work that is depends on the layout of the house, ie
basement, crawlspace, etc.




Is central air worth paying the extra $$$ and installation work?

Or can mini split do as good a job, have equal reliability,

etc.?



MS is good for areas. One room or a few rooms. If you need
and want to cool the whole house, as most people do, then
central is what's needed. MS or even window AC can be used
as a supplement to central AC. If you have a room that has
a lot of sun exposure, isn't being cooled adequately by central,
or a room you spend a lot of time it, etc.

But if you're in an area with periods of high humidity, nothing
beats central air.



I'm also wondering if pre-existing ducting in some homes

that have either oil or gas hot air, could also be used with

a central air system?



Yes, they always are. Another option you should look at is the
new high velocity systems. They use air under pressure through
like 1.5" hoses to deliver it. They are more expensive, but might
be viable for a retrofit, because they use those hoses, not ducts.



You beat me to it. Johnstone Supply was carrying the units but all I see
on their site are the parts for it. O_o

http://spacepak.com/

TDD

On Fri, 23 Aug 2013 19:47:46 -0400, "(PeteCresswell)"
wrote:

Per :
new high velocity systems. They use air under pressure through
like 1.5" hoses to deliver it. They are more expensive, but might
be viable for a retrofit, because they use those hoses, not ducts.

My parent's place had a system where the air was delivered through what
looked tb 1.5 or 2" hoses. It was a retrofit.

I found the noise to be irritating enough that I would never have one
installed in a house that I had to live in.


We recently re-did our system so that it has three zones: bedrooms,
living room/kitchen, and rec room.

If I ever built a house, I would have a zone for each room and doors to
enforce the zones.

My thinking is that hard times are coming fuel cost-wise and more zones
would allow one to cut back heating/cooling to just a couple of rooms -
or even just one - if the need arose.

Unless the system were designed like a mini-split, I doubt you'd ever
pay back the initial cost. I do shut vents off to rooms we're not
using and have the upstairs unit on a "Nest" (we don't use the
upstairs rooms much in the summer).

On Fri, 23 Aug 2013 12:52:36 -0400, John Albert
wrote:

Hello all -

I may be buying a house before too long, and a few questions
about installing air conditioning into a home that lacks it.
House will be ranch-style, 1600-1900 sq. ft. I have no house
in particular picked out yet, but some I'm interested would
be fine -- EXCEPT for the fact that they were not built with
air conditioning.

I'm wondering about the pros/cons of installing a "mini
split" system (with multiple "room units" or perhaps more
than one mini split unit), vis-a-vis going for central air...?

Just from casual browsing, it looks like mini split would be
considerably cheaper and easier to install than a full
central air system with ducting, etc. (the latter probably
involving a LOT of wall/floor work as well).

Is central air worth paying the extra $$$ and installation work?
Or can mini split do as good a job, have equal reliability,
etc.?

I'm also wondering if pre-existing ducting in some homes
that have either oil or gas hot air, could also be used with
a central air system?

Actually, if I found the right place with pre-existing
ducting, I might even consider going to a full geothermal
system. But that's a different topic.

Thanks,
- John
Forced air systems are MADE for central air, and vice versa.

The ducting will be optimized for one or the other, but useable for
both - or possibly a compromise for both - but it works.

On Fri, 23 Aug 2013 18:48:06 -0500, The Daring Dufas
wrote:

On 8/23/2013 12:18 PM, wrote:
On Friday, August 23, 2013 12:52:36 PM UTC-4, John Albert wrote:
Hello all -



I may be buying a house before too long, and a few questions

about installing air conditioning into a home that lacks it.

House will be ranch-style, 1600-1900 sq. ft. I have no house

in particular picked out yet, but some I'm interested would

be fine -- EXCEPT for the fact that they were not built with

air conditioning.



I'm wondering about the pros/cons of installing a "mini

split" system (with multiple "room units" or perhaps more

than one mini split unit), vis-a-vis going for central air...?



Just from casual browsing, it looks like mini split would be

considerably cheaper and easier to install than a full

central air system with ducting, etc. (the latter probably

involving a LOT of wall/floor work as well).



It depends on the house, what it already has, and how easy
or hard it is to run ducts. If the house has forced air
heating, then generally no new ducts are required. If it
has hot water heat, then a lot of ducts are required. How
much work that is depends on the layout of the house, ie
basement, crawlspace, etc.




Is central air worth paying the extra $$$ and installation work?

Or can mini split do as good a job, have equal reliability,

etc.?



MS is good for areas. One room or a few rooms. If you need
and want to cool the whole house, as most people do, then
central is what's needed. MS or even window AC can be used
as a supplement to central AC. If you have a room that has
a lot of sun exposure, isn't being cooled adequately by central,
or a room you spend a lot of time it, etc.

But if you're in an area with periods of high humidity, nothing
beats central air.



I'm also wondering if pre-existing ducting in some homes

that have either oil or gas hot air, could also be used with

a central air system?



Yes, they always are. Another option you should look at is the
new high velocity systems. They use air under pressure through
like 1.5" hoses to deliver it. They are more expensive, but might
be viable for a retrofit, because they use those hoses, not ducts.



You beat me to it. Johnstone Supply was carrying the units but all I see
on their site are the parts for it. O_o

http://spacepak.com/

TDD
They can drive you nuts - some are terribly LOUD, at an irritating
frquency.

On 8/23/2013 7:51 PM, wrote:
On Fri, 23 Aug 2013 18:48:06 -0500, The Daring Dufas
wrote:

On 8/23/2013 12:18 PM, wrote:
On Friday, August 23, 2013 12:52:36 PM UTC-4, John Albert wrote:
Hello all -



I may be buying a house before too long, and a few questions

about installing air conditioning into a home that lacks it.

House will be ranch-style, 1600-1900 sq. ft. I have no house

in particular picked out yet, but some I'm interested would

be fine -- EXCEPT for the fact that they were not built with

air conditioning.



I'm wondering about the pros/cons of installing a "mini

split" system (with multiple "room units" or perhaps more

than one mini split unit), vis-a-vis going for central air...?



Just from casual browsing, it looks like mini split would be

considerably cheaper and easier to install than a full

central air system with ducting, etc. (the latter probably

involving a LOT of wall/floor work as well).



It depends on the house, what it already has, and how easy or
hard it is to run ducts. If the house has forced air heating,
then generally no new ducts are required. If it has hot water
heat, then a lot of ducts are required. How much work that is
depends on the layout of the house, ie basement, crawlspace,
etc.




Is central air worth paying the extra $$$ and installation
work?

Or can mini split do as good a job, have equal reliability,

etc.?



MS is good for areas. One room or a few rooms. If you need and
want to cool the whole house, as most people do, then central is
what's needed. MS or even window AC can be used as a supplement
to central AC. If you have a room that has a lot of sun
exposure, isn't being cooled adequately by central, or a room you
spend a lot of time it, etc.

But if you're in an area with periods of high humidity, nothing
beats central air.



I'm also wondering if pre-existing ducting in some homes

that have either oil or gas hot air, could also be used with

a central air system?



Yes, they always are. Another option you should look at is the
new high velocity systems. They use air under pressure through
like 1.5" hoses to deliver it. They are more expensive, but
might be viable for a retrofit, because they use those hoses, not
ducts.



You beat me to it. Johnstone Supply was carrying the units but all
I see on their site are the parts for it. O_o

http://spacepak.com/

TDD
They can drive you nuts - some are terribly LOUD, at an irritating
frquency.


The units remind me of the AC systems on passenger planes. ^_^

TDD

On Fri, 23 Aug 2013 20:12:11 -0500, The Daring Dufas
wrote:

On 8/23/2013 7:51 PM, wrote:
On Fri, 23 Aug 2013 18:48:06 -0500, The Daring Dufas
wrote:

On 8/23/2013 12:18 PM, wrote:
On Friday, August 23, 2013 12:52:36 PM UTC-4, John Albert wrote:
Hello all -



I may be buying a house before too long, and a few questions

about installing air conditioning into a home that lacks it.

House will be ranch-style, 1600-1900 sq. ft. I have no house

in particular picked out yet, but some I'm interested would

be fine -- EXCEPT for the fact that they were not built with

air conditioning.



I'm wondering about the pros/cons of installing a "mini

split" system (with multiple "room units" or perhaps more

than one mini split unit), vis-a-vis going for central air...?



Just from casual browsing, it looks like mini split would be

considerably cheaper and easier to install than a full

central air system with ducting, etc. (the latter probably

involving a LOT of wall/floor work as well).



It depends on the house, what it already has, and how easy or
hard it is to run ducts. If the house has forced air heating,
then generally no new ducts are required. If it has hot water
heat, then a lot of ducts are required. How much work that is
depends on the layout of the house, ie basement, crawlspace,
etc.




Is central air worth paying the extra $$$ and installation
work?

Or can mini split do as good a job, have equal reliability,

etc.?



MS is good for areas. One room or a few rooms. If you need and
want to cool the whole house, as most people do, then central is
what's needed. MS or even window AC can be used as a supplement
to central AC. If you have a room that has a lot of sun
exposure, isn't being cooled adequately by central, or a room you
spend a lot of time it, etc.

But if you're in an area with periods of high humidity, nothing
beats central air.



I'm also wondering if pre-existing ducting in some homes

that have either oil or gas hot air, could also be used with

a central air system?



Yes, they always are. Another option you should look at is the
new high velocity systems. They use air under pressure through
like 1.5" hoses to deliver it. They are more expensive, but
might be viable for a retrofit, because they use those hoses, not
ducts.



You beat me to it. Johnstone Supply was carrying the units but all
I see on their site are the parts for it. O_o

http://spacepak.com/

TDD
They can drive you nuts - some are terribly LOUD, at an irritating
frquency.


The units remind me of the AC systems on passenger planes. ^_^

Or the Motel-sex.

On 8/23/13 4:31 PM, Oren wrote:
What region do you live in? Homes north of NAPA Valley, CA often have
no HVAC at all - in any form.
I can easily see a price of $25,00 plus, for a retrofit that needs
ducts, and a high SEER unit (14-16 SEER).

The area I would be in the market for a new home in is
central Pennsylvania - general area of
Danville/Selinsgrove/Muncy/Bloomsburg.

One other question for the group that I forgot to ask:
I've seen some homes that have "heat pumps" but no air
conditioning.
Is it relatively easy to add a central air unit and combine
it with the heat pump's ducting?

On Fri, 23 Aug 2013 23:14:59 -0400, John Albert
wrote:

On 8/23/13 4:31 PM, Oren wrote:
What region do you live in? Homes north of NAPA Valley, CA often have
no HVAC at all - in any form.
I can easily see a price of $25,00 plus, for a retrofit that needs
ducts, and a high SEER unit (14-16 SEER).

The area I would be in the market for a new home in is
central Pennsylvania - general area of
Danville/Selinsgrove/Muncy/Bloomsburg.

One other question for the group that I forgot to ask:
I've seen some homes that have "heat pumps" but no air
conditioning.
Is it relatively easy to add a central air unit and combine
it with the heat pump's ducting?
I've NEVER seen a heat pump that was not also air conditioning.

I worked for several years, helping a friend with
his HVAC business. We installed central AC into
systems which had been designed for heat only.
Very possible, and we did a bunch of them. Of
course, the HVAC folks in your area may or may
not offer this service. The boss didn't discuss
prices with me, so I'm not sure what this all
costs.

..
Christopher A. Young
Learn about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

On 8/23/2013 12:52 PM, John Albert wrote:
Hello all -

I may be buying a house before too long, and a few questions about
installing air conditioning into a home that lacks it. House will be
ranch-style, 1600-1900 sq. ft. I have no house in particular picked out
yet, but some I'm interested would be fine -- EXCEPT for the fact that
they were not built with air conditioning.

I'm wondering about the pros/cons of installing a "mini split" system
(with multiple "room units" or perhaps more than one mini split unit),
vis-a-vis going for central air...?

Just from casual browsing, it looks like mini split would be
considerably cheaper and easier to install than a full central air
system with ducting, etc. (the latter probably involving a LOT of
wall/floor work as well).

Is central air worth paying the extra $$$ and installation work?
Or can mini split do as good a job, have equal reliability, etc.?

I'm also wondering if pre-existing ducting in some homes that have
either oil or gas hot air, could also be used with a central air system?

Actually, if I found the right place with pre-existing ducting, I might
even consider going to a full geothermal system. But that's a different
topic.

Thanks,
- John

On 8/23/2013 12:52 PM, John Albert wrote:
Hello all -

I may be buying a house before too long, and a few questions about
installing air conditioning into a home that lacks it. House will be
ranch-style, 1600-1900 sq. ft. I have no house in particular picked out
yet, but some I'm interested would be fine -- EXCEPT for the fact that
they were not built with air conditioning.

Is central air worth paying the extra $$$ and installation work?
Or can mini split do as good a job, have equal reliability, etc.?


There is no one answer. Central air can be installed in any house. It
comes down to cost. If no ducts, you can run them, often trough attic
spaces or from the basement, through closets, etc. Since you are
looking at ranch stile, it may even be possible to install the
evaporator and blower in the attic.

As for using existing duct work, that depends on the layout and size.
It may be possible, but it may have severe design limits too. That
will vary with each house.

Mini splits usually are easier to install. They also have the
advantage of being operated in just the zones you want to cool if you
have a portion of the house not occupied. The practicality will be
determined by the layout of the house.

Keep an open mind until you finally find your dream house and have a
couple of HVAC contractors look at it.

Better yet, build your own energy efficient house and install the
geothermal right from the start. Use ICF construction and it will be
quiet and strong.

On Friday, August 23, 2013 7:47:46 PM UTC-4, (PeteCresswell) wrote:
Per :

new high velocity systems. They use air under pressure through

like 1.5" hoses to deliver it. They are more expensive, but might

be viable for a retrofit, because they use those hoses, not ducts.



My parent's place had a system where the air was delivered through what

looked tb 1.5 or 2" hoses. It was a retrofit.



I found the noise to be irritating enough that I would never have one

installed in a house that I had to live in.



I've only seen one in operation. It was during an open house
for a house being sold. It was an old colonial style house
and it was a hot summer day. The house was nice and cool, air
was coming out of the vents and I did not notice any noise.
But, can't say what level it was operating at either. They
could have had it cranking before the open house, and cut it
way back during, etc.

My understanding is they have a design with special outlets
that reduce the noise that you would expect. But how well
that works probably varies from one manufacturer to the next.
I would definitely want to see a few of the ones I was considering
before having it installed.






We recently re-did our system so that it has three zones: bedrooms,

living room/kitchen, and rec room.



If I ever built a house, I would have a zone for each room and doors to

enforce the zones.



I don't know about a zone for each room, but I agree that it's
shocking that zoned systems, even doing just two, are not common
on a single system. You do see a lot of new big two story homes with two
zones via two separate systems, one in the basement, one in the
attic.





My thinking is that hard times are coming fuel cost-wise and more zones

would allow one to cut back heating/cooling to just a couple of rooms -

or even just one - if the need arose.

--

Pete Cresswell

Not only that, but increased comfort, as it can be balanced
automatically. I think the big problem here is who pays for all
this? Easiest and cheapest time to install that kind of system
is during construction. But most homes are being built by spec
builders, not homeowners. So, the builder may say to himself, if I
sink an extra $5K into this, will the house sell for $10K, $15K
more. Will a prospective buyer really care, etc.

I see this kind of thing going on here in NJ all the time.
Builders are building $700K - $1mil houses and doing lots of cheap
things that are a long way from shelling out extra money for
fancier HVAC. If I were a builder, I'd try doing some enhancements
and then making that a feature that distinguishes me from the
competition. Basically, yeah my house sells for $50K more, but
look at x, y, and z, what I'm giving you. A good place to start
would be bathroom fans. In those houses referenced about, they all
use the cheapest, noisiest fan available. For just $30 more, you
could get one that was much quieter. Then when you're selling it
show that to the clients.

On Friday, August 23, 2013 1:36:04 PM UTC-4, wrote:
On Fri, 23 Aug 2013 12:52:36 -0400, John Albert

wrote:



Hello all -



I may be buying a house before too long, and a few questions

about installing air conditioning into a home that lacks it.

House will be ranch-style, 1600-1900 sq. ft. I have no house

in particular picked out yet, but some I'm interested would

be fine -- EXCEPT for the fact that they were not built with

air conditioning.



I'm wondering about the pros/cons of installing a "mini

split" system (with multiple "room units" or perhaps more

than one mini split unit), vis-a-vis going for central air...?



Just from casual browsing, it looks like mini split would be

considerably cheaper and easier to install than a full

central air system with ducting, etc. (the latter probably

involving a LOT of wall/floor work as well).



Is central air worth paying the extra $$$ and installation work?

Or can mini split do as good a job, have equal reliability,

etc.?



I'm also wondering if pre-existing ducting in some homes

that have either oil or gas hot air, could also be used with

a central air system?



Actually, if I found the right place with pre-existing

ducting, I might even consider going to a full geothermal

system. But that's a different topic.



Thanks,

- John



I have been researching the same thing myself. If you already have

forced air you might be able to use the existing duct work by adding

A/C registers in the ceiling but it all depends on how the ducts are

run. In a retro fit, if you need extensive duct work a minisplit ends

up being competitive or even cheaper. Then the question becomes, how

many condenser do you want. There are multi head systems but they end

up being almost as expensive as using a one to one setup with multiple

condensers and heads.



The first thing you have to do is create a scope of work on the

particular house to see what is necessary to do the install.



Equipment alone



2400 BTU 3 head Fujitsu Mini Split $3400

3600 BTU 3 head Fujitsu Mini Split $4550

3600 BTU Trane 16 seer central (air handler and condenser) $3980 with

a $585 rebate from FPL.



That does not include duct work, copper or labor.

Agree with your overall points. But that cost for the 36K BTU central
eqpt is way high. It might be Tranes price, but you can get good
eqpt from a company like Rheem for more like $2500. I
bought a Rheem 5 ton/60K btu a couple years ago for about that price.
It was 14.5 Seer though. Don't know what the price curves look
like today, but 2 years ago, it didn't make sense to shell out the
extra money for higher seer, the payback was just too long. That
was for me here in NJ. If you're in AZ or FL, it could be different.

On Friday, August 23, 2013 11:31:09 PM UTC-4, wrote:
On Fri, 23 Aug 2013 23:14:59 -0400, John Albert

wrote:



On 8/23/13 4:31 PM, Oren wrote:

What region do you live in? Homes north of NAPA Valley, CA often have

no HVAC at all - in any form.

I can easily see a price of $25,00 plus, for a retrofit that needs

ducts, and a high SEER unit (14-16 SEER).



The area I would be in the market for a new home in is

central Pennsylvania - general area of

Danville/Selinsgrove/Muncy/Bloomsburg.



One other question for the group that I forgot to ask:

I've seen some homes that have "heat pumps" but no air

conditioning.

Is it relatively easy to add a central air unit and combine

it with the heat pump's ducting?

I've NEVER seen a heat pump that was not also air conditioning.

+1 to that.

Also, he's in PA. Conventional heat pump systems I would
think would be rare there. I don't know of a single one
here in coastal NJ, where the climate is even milder. I do
know of one geothermal heat pump system. But the cost and
payback on that is in lala land AFAIK. There are also hybrid
systems, where nat gas is used together with a heat pump.
But again, don't know of a single one of those here either.

Another factor with heat pump systems is you're locking yourself
in to electric as the energy source. For sure if nat gas is
available, I would not do that. The US has an abundance of nat
gas, prices are low, wells are being drilled everywhere.
With electric, you have the reliance on coal, ever increasing
costs to make it cleaner, a possible CO2 tax on the plants, etc.
And solar sure isn't cheap. Part of the high cost of electricity
here in NJ is that the state is soaking us all with a tax on it
to pay for yuppies to install solar panels. The exception to
using electric to run a heat pump would be if you're located
somewhere that the climate permits and where you're reasonably
sure that the cost of electric will be low and stable, eg it's
coming from hydro. Or of course, if for some other reason the other
choices are even worse in your area.

On Fri, 23 Aug 2013 23:14:59 -0400, John Albert
wrote:

The area I would be in the market for a new home in is
central Pennsylvania - general area of
Danville/Selinsgrove/Muncy/Bloomsburg.

I used to live in Milton and worked in Lewisburg. We had no HVAC unit
and used oil burner with floor hot water vents for heat. A ranch style
house with a partially finished basement that we spent much of the
summer downstairs when at home. The house had a whole house attic fan
we could pull the heat out in the summer.

On Friday, August 23, 2013 4:32:57 PM UTC-4, Lee B wrote:
On 8/23/2013 12:52 PM, John Albert wrote:

Hello all -



I may be buying a house before too long, and a few questions about

installing air conditioning into a home that lacks it. House will be

ranch-style, 1600-1900 sq. ft. I have no house in particular picked out

yet, but some I'm interested would be fine -- EXCEPT for the fact that

they were not built with air conditioning.



I'm wondering about the pros/cons of installing a "mini split" system

(with multiple "room units" or perhaps more than one mini split unit),

vis-a-vis going for central air...?



Just from casual browsing, it looks like mini split would be

considerably cheaper and easier to install than a full central air

system with ducting, etc. (the latter probably involving a LOT of

wall/floor work as well).



Is central air worth paying the extra $$$ and installation work?

Or can mini split do as good a job, have equal reliability, etc.?



I'm also wondering if pre-existing ducting in some homes that have

either oil or gas hot air, could also be used with a central air system?



Actually, if I found the right place with pre-existing ducting, I might

even consider going to a full geothermal system. But that's a different

topic.



Thanks,

- John



I don't have any technical knowledge about this. I can say that about 12

years ago, I had central AC added to my 1950s row house (basement plus 2

stories). The house had forced hot air, which the local utilities

company used. At the time they warned me that the outcome would be that

it would cool the 1st floor living area fine, but not so much the top

floor. They were right, although it was definitely an improvement over

what it had been like with no AC.

Even in two story houses that had AC installed when built, it's typical
for the upper story to be warmer. Around here, NJ, they are going to
two systems for larger houses now. One in the basement, one in the
attic. That can help solve it, but also the system in the attic
brings it's own problems. In my experience, a difference of two or
three degrees in a house with a single system isn't unusual.

This stuff isn't rocket science and you would think installers today
could do a better job, but it is what it is.








I forget now how expensive it was, but

they used the existing duct work and fan etc which helped to defray the

costs.



Now I'm in a small 2 bedroom ranch that has central air. I'm almost

positive that was an add-on as well since it's also a 1950's house. It

does cool the house well, presumably because it's not trying to push air

uphill. There is one floor vent in a bedroom that looks out of place

and a return up on a hall wall, so they may have run some additional

duct work, but I don't know.



FWIW, one of the houses that I looked at in this area (most of the

houses in this neighborhood are identical) had been renovated and they'd

put the AC (or maybe it was a heat pump?) in the attic. That seemed to

work fairly well from what I could tell at the open house.

On Saturday, August 24, 2013 8:16:19 AM UTC-4, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On 8/23/2013 12:52 PM, John Albert wrote:

Hello all -



I may be buying a house before too long, and a few questions about

installing air conditioning into a home that lacks it. House will be

ranch-style, 1600-1900 sq. ft. I have no house in particular picked out

yet, but some I'm interested would be fine -- EXCEPT for the fact that

they were not built with air conditioning.



Is central air worth paying the extra $$$ and installation work?

Or can mini split do as good a job, have equal reliability, etc.?





There is no one answer. Central air can be installed in any house. It

comes down to cost. If no ducts, you can run them, often trough attic

spaces or from the basement, through closets, etc. Since you are

looking at ranch stile, it may even be possible to install the

evaporator and blower in the attic.



As for using existing duct work, that depends on the layout and size.

It may be possible, but it may have severe design limits too. That

will vary with each house.



Mini splits usually are easier to install. They also have the

advantage of being operated in just the zones you want to cool if you

have a portion of the house not occupied. The practicality will be

determined by the layout of the house.



Keep an open mind until you finally find your dream house and have a

couple of HVAC contractors look at it.



Better yet, build your own energy efficient house and install the

geothermal right from the start. Use ICF construction and it will be

quiet and strong.

You're in CT I think? Are you seeing geothermal being economically
advantageous there? I'm not up on the latest prices, but I haven't
seen anything that changes what it needs, eg wells drilled, etc
that make it cost a whole lot of money. I guess if nat gas isn't
available, and oil is the other choice, then maybe it could make
sense. There is one system installed here in my neighborhood.
But with nat gas available there, it makes no sense to me.

Per :
Unless the system were designed like a mini-split, I doubt you'd ever
pay back the initial cost.

Considering that the cost to zone our rec room was well over a grand,
I'd have to agree with that.

In retrospect, now that I know what a mini-split is, we would have been
better served by installing same for the rec room - which is at ground
level. I would think that the install would have been about as simple
as such installs get.
--
Pete Cresswell

On Saturday, August 24, 2013 10:35:43 AM UTC-4, (PeteCresswell) wrote:
Per :

Unless the system were designed like a mini-split, I doubt you'd ever

pay back the initial cost.



Considering that the cost to zone our rec room was well over a grand,

I'd have to agree with that.



In retrospect, now that I know what a mini-split is, we would have been

better served by installing same for the rec room - which is at ground

level. I would think that the install would have been about as simple

as such installs get.

--

Pete Cresswell


Only drawback is that the minisplit would have cost 2 to 3X.

On Saturday, August 24, 2013 11:07:38 AM UTC-4, wrote:
On Sat, 24 Aug 2013 07:00:45 -0700 (PDT), "

wrote:



On Friday, August 23, 2013 1:36:04 PM UTC-4, wrote:



Equipment alone



2400 BTU 3 head Fujitsu Mini Split $3400

3600 BTU 3 head Fujitsu Mini Split $4550

3600 BTU Trane 16 seer central (air handler and condenser) $3980 with

a $585 rebate from FPL.



That does not include duct work, copper or labor.



Agree with your overall points. But that cost for the 36K BTU central

eqpt is way high. It might be Tranes price, but you can get good

eqpt from a company like Rheem for more like $2500. I

bought a Rheem 5 ton/60K btu a couple years ago for about that price.

It was 14.5 Seer though. Don't know what the price curves look

like today, but 2 years ago, it didn't make sense to shell out the

extra money for higher seer, the payback was just too long. That

was for me here in NJ. If you're in AZ or FL, it could be different.



Are you talking about an air handler or just dropping an "A" coil in

an existing furnace?

Big price difference.

In my case, it was without the air handler. But you can get whole
AC only system eqpt, including the air handler for $2500 or
less. Here's some examples:

https://www.acwholesalers.com/Air-Co...inCat=&subCat=


I know some will say you shouldn't buy Goodman because it's
cheap. Others say they've had them and they are fine. When I was
shopping for mine, the Rheem prices were only a few hundred more than
Goodman. My old system was Ruud, which is made by same company
as Rheem. Since it was still working after 25+ years, I chose
Rheem. Been very happy with it. I bought it from the above website,
but looks like they no longer sell Rheem.

On Sat, 24 Aug 2013 07:22:07 -0700 (PDT), "
wrote:




You're in CT I think? Are you seeing geothermal being economically
advantageous there? I'm not up on the latest prices, but I haven't
seen anything that changes what it needs, eg wells drilled, etc
that make it cost a whole lot of money. I guess if nat gas isn't
available, and oil is the other choice, then maybe it could make
sense. There is one system installed here in my neighborhood.
But with nat gas available there, it makes no sense to me.

I know of two geothermal installations. One was done because he
could, not because of any money savings. The other was for economy,
but I don't know the detail, but it is a very long payback. From what
little I know, the well cost is the one big deterrent.

Wish I could get gas. I did upgrade my oil boiler and save a bunch,
but gas would be better yet.

On Sat, 24 Aug 2013 10:35:43 -0400, "(PeteCresswell)"
wrote:

Per :
Unless the system were designed like a mini-split, I doubt you'd ever
pay back the initial cost.

Considering that the cost to zone our rec room was well over a grand,
I'd have to agree with that.

In retrospect, now that I know what a mini-split is, we would have been
better served by installing same for the rec room - which is at ground
level. I would think that the install would have been about as simple
as such installs get.

I was thinking about a mini-split for the attic in our previous house.
It had an air handler in the space I wanted to heat/AC but it would
have been more work to use it than add a mini-split. OTOH, the
solution ended up being to move. ;-) I my put a mini-split in our
basement here. Like you said, installation would be a snap.

On Sat, 24 Aug 2013 06:51:24 -0700 (PDT), "
wrote:

On Friday, August 23, 2013 7:47:46 PM UTC-4, (PeteCresswell) wrote:
Per :

new high velocity systems. They use air under pressure through

like 1.5" hoses to deliver it. They are more expensive, but might

be viable for a retrofit, because they use those hoses, not ducts.



My parent's place had a system where the air was delivered through what

looked tb 1.5 or 2" hoses. It was a retrofit.



I found the noise to be irritating enough that I would never have one

installed in a house that I had to live in.



I've only seen one in operation. It was during an open house
for a house being sold. It was an old colonial style house
and it was a hot summer day. The house was nice and cool, air
was coming out of the vents and I did not notice any noise.
But, can't say what level it was operating at either. They
could have had it cranking before the open house, and cut it
way back during, etc.

My understanding is they have a design with special outlets
that reduce the noise that you would expect. But how well
that works probably varies from one manufacturer to the next.
I would definitely want to see a few of the ones I was considering
before having it installed.






We recently re-did our system so that it has three zones: bedrooms,

living room/kitchen, and rec room.



If I ever built a house, I would have a zone for each room and doors to

enforce the zones.



I don't know about a zone for each room, but I agree that it's
shocking that zoned systems, even doing just two, are not common
on a single system. You do see a lot of new big two story homes with two
zones via two separate systems, one in the basement, one in the
attic.





My thinking is that hard times are coming fuel cost-wise and more zones

would allow one to cut back heating/cooling to just a couple of rooms -

or even just one - if the need arose.

--

Pete Cresswell

Not only that, but increased comfort, as it can be balanced
automatically. I think the big problem here is who pays for all
this? Easiest and cheapest time to install that kind of system
is during construction. But most homes are being built by spec
builders, not homeowners. So, the builder may say to himself, if I
sink an extra $5K into this, will the house sell for $10K, $15K
more. Will a prospective buyer really care, etc.

I see this kind of thing going on here in NJ all the time.
Builders are building $700K - $1mil houses and doing lots of cheap
things that are a long way from shelling out extra money for
fancier HVAC. If I were a builder, I'd try doing some enhancements
and then making that a feature that distinguishes me from the
competition. Basically, yeah my house sells for $50K more, but
look at x, y, and z, what I'm giving you. A good place to start
would be bathroom fans. In those houses referenced about, they all
use the cheapest, noisiest fan available. For just $30 more, you
could get one that was much quieter. Then when you're selling it
show that to the clients.

It's quite common. My previous house had two, 2T for the second floor
(in the unheated attic space) and 3-1/2T on the main floor (no
basement). This house has 4-1/2T for the main and a 1-1/2 for the
second floor. Both are in the attic. No heat or AC in the basement.

about 6 years ago I got a new 90+ furnace with AC installed in my 1950 2 story home. Goodman cost under 4 grand and its worked great. used all existing ductwork except the plenemum to the furnace. central air is wonderful

On Sat, 24 Aug 2013 07:10:52 -0700, Oren wrote:

On Fri, 23 Aug 2013 23:14:59 -0400, John Albert
wrote:

The area I would be in the market for a new home in is
central Pennsylvania - general area of
Danville/Selinsgrove/Muncy/Bloomsburg.

I used to live in Milton and worked in Lewisburg. We had no HVAC unit
and used oil burner with floor hot water vents for heat. A ranch style
house with a partially finished basement that we spent much of the
summer downstairs when at home. The house had a whole house attic fan
we could pull the heat out in the summer.

When we lived in the Poughkeepsie NY area, we didn't have AC but
relied on a whole house fan (and a swimming pool ;-). It worked, but
I don't think I could handle it anymore. I pretty much rely on the
heat pump six months of the year, even in GA.

On Saturday, August 24, 2013 3:06:11 PM UTC-4, wrote:
On Sat, 24 Aug 2013 06:51:24 -0700 (PDT), "

wrote:



On Friday, August 23, 2013 7:47:46 PM UTC-4, (PeteCresswell) wrote:

Per :



new high velocity systems. They use air under pressure through



like 1.5" hoses to deliver it. They are more expensive, but might



be viable for a retrofit, because they use those hoses, not ducts.







My parent's place had a system where the air was delivered through what



looked tb 1.5 or 2" hoses. It was a retrofit.







I found the noise to be irritating enough that I would never have one



installed in a house that I had to live in.







I've only seen one in operation. It was during an open house

for a house being sold. It was an old colonial style house

and it was a hot summer day. The house was nice and cool, air

was coming out of the vents and I did not notice any noise.

But, can't say what level it was operating at either. They

could have had it cranking before the open house, and cut it

way back during, etc.



My understanding is they have a design with special outlets

that reduce the noise that you would expect. But how well

that works probably varies from one manufacturer to the next.

I would definitely want to see a few of the ones I was considering

before having it installed.













We recently re-did our system so that it has three zones: bedrooms,



living room/kitchen, and rec room.







If I ever built a house, I would have a zone for each room and doors to



enforce the zones.







I don't know about a zone for each room, but I agree that it's

shocking that zoned systems, even doing just two, are not common

on a single system. You do see a lot of new big two story homes with two

zones via two separate systems, one in the basement, one in the

attic.











My thinking is that hard times are coming fuel cost-wise and more zones



would allow one to cut back heating/cooling to just a couple of rooms -



or even just one - if the need arose.



--



Pete Cresswell



Not only that, but increased comfort, as it can be balanced

automatically. I think the big problem here is who pays for all

this? Easiest and cheapest time to install that kind of system

is during construction. But most homes are being built by spec

builders, not homeowners. So, the builder may say to himself, if I

sink an extra $5K into this, will the house sell for $10K, $15K

more. Will a prospective buyer really care, etc.



I see this kind of thing going on here in NJ all the time.

Builders are building $700K - $1mil houses and doing lots of cheap

things that are a long way from shelling out extra money for

fancier HVAC. If I were a builder, I'd try doing some enhancements

and then making that a feature that distinguishes me from the

competition. Basically, yeah my house sells for $50K more, but

look at x, y, and z, what I'm giving you. A good place to start

would be bathroom fans. In those houses referenced about, they all

use the cheapest, noisiest fan available. For just $30 more, you

could get one that was much quieter. Then when you're selling it

show that to the clients.



It's quite common.

What's quite common? Three zones on a single system, like the poster
is talking about? Or a two story house that has two entirely
separate systems. The latter is common here too, but not zoning
within a system.


My previous house had two, 2T for the second floor

(in the unheated attic space) and 3-1/2T on the main floor (no

basement). This house has 4-1/2T for the main and a 1-1/2 for the

second floor. Both are in the attic. No heat or AC in the basement.

On Sat, 24 Aug 2013 12:30:32 -0700 (PDT), "
wrote:

On Saturday, August 24, 2013 3:06:11 PM UTC-4, wrote:
On Sat, 24 Aug 2013 06:51:24 -0700 (PDT), "

wrote:



On Friday, August 23, 2013 7:47:46 PM UTC-4, (PeteCresswell) wrote:

Per :



new high velocity systems. They use air under pressure through



like 1.5" hoses to deliver it. They are more expensive, but might



be viable for a retrofit, because they use those hoses, not ducts.







My parent's place had a system where the air was delivered through what



looked tb 1.5 or 2" hoses. It was a retrofit.







I found the noise to be irritating enough that I would never have one



installed in a house that I had to live in.







I've only seen one in operation. It was during an open house

for a house being sold. It was an old colonial style house

and it was a hot summer day. The house was nice and cool, air

was coming out of the vents and I did not notice any noise.

But, can't say what level it was operating at either. They

could have had it cranking before the open house, and cut it

way back during, etc.



My understanding is they have a design with special outlets

that reduce the noise that you would expect. But how well

that works probably varies from one manufacturer to the next.

I would definitely want to see a few of the ones I was considering

before having it installed.













We recently re-did our system so that it has three zones: bedrooms,



living room/kitchen, and rec room.







If I ever built a house, I would have a zone for each room and doors to



enforce the zones.







I don't know about a zone for each room, but I agree that it's

shocking that zoned systems, even doing just two, are not common

on a single system. You do see a lot of new big two story homes with two

zones via two separate systems, one in the basement, one in the

attic.











My thinking is that hard times are coming fuel cost-wise and more zones



would allow one to cut back heating/cooling to just a couple of rooms -



or even just one - if the need arose.



--



Pete Cresswell



Not only that, but increased comfort, as it can be balanced

automatically. I think the big problem here is who pays for all

this? Easiest and cheapest time to install that kind of system

is during construction. But most homes are being built by spec

builders, not homeowners. So, the builder may say to himself, if I

sink an extra $5K into this, will the house sell for $10K, $15K

more. Will a prospective buyer really care, etc.



I see this kind of thing going on here in NJ all the time.

Builders are building $700K - $1mil houses and doing lots of cheap

things that are a long way from shelling out extra money for

fancier HVAC. If I were a builder, I'd try doing some enhancements

and then making that a feature that distinguishes me from the

competition. Basically, yeah my house sells for $50K more, but

look at x, y, and z, what I'm giving you. A good place to start

would be bathroom fans. In those houses referenced about, they all

use the cheapest, noisiest fan available. For just $30 more, you

could get one that was much quieter. Then when you're selling it

show that to the clients.



It's quite common.

What's quite common?

Two independent systems. One for the upstairs, another for the main
floor. In fact, I think it's the norm, here in the SE (don't know of
any 2-story houses with a single system).

Three zones on a single system, like the poster
is talking about? Or a two story house that has two entirely
separate systems. The latter is common here too, but not zoning
within a system.

Zoning is not common.

On Sat, 24 Aug 2013 13:09:01 -0400, wrote:


The thing that is holding me back on the 3 head minisplit right now is
the placement of the ceiling cassette and how I will deal with the
condensate. I would like to avoid a pump.

http://gfretwell.com/ftp/house%20plan%20AC1.jpg

What is a "ceiling cassette"?

On Fri, 23 Aug 2013 23:14:59 -0400, John Albert
wrote:

The area I would be in the market for a new home in is
central Pennsylvania - general area of
Danville/Selinsgrove/Muncy/Bloomsburg.

John,

BTW, I would avoid Selinsgrove. Knock it off the list.

Danville has a top medical trauma center. Nice area. I sold my house
in Milton to folks in the medical field. Buyers were lined up so I
picked the buyer.

Muncy is nice and family oriented. Bloomburg, I've been there a couple
times for the fairs - never checked housing though.

Centralia, Pennsylvania still has coal mines burning today. They
cannot be extinguished by anything so far. Since 1962.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Centralia,_Pennsylvania#Mine_fire

On 8/24/2013 3:54 PM, Oren wrote:
On Sat, 24 Aug 2013 13:09:01 -0400, wrote:


The thing that is holding me back on the 3 head minisplit right now is
the placement of the ceiling cassette and how I will deal with the
condensate. I would like to avoid a pump.

http://gfretwell.com/ftp/house%20plan%20AC1.jpg

What is a "ceiling cassette"?


I've installed them and it's a self contained air handler and evaporator
that is designed to fit suspended ceilings 2 foot by 2 foot in a space
taken by two ceiling tiles. The units can also be ceiling mounted in
other types of ceilings by cutting out a large enough opening. The air
is drawn in through the center where the filter is and the conditioned
air is discharged around the periphery of the unit. There are both
commercial and residential systems. It's a mini-split in a different
form. ^_^

http://www.fujitsugeneral.com/cassette.htm

http://www.friedrich.com/products/re...iling-cassette

https://tinyurl.com/lp8y9go

TDD

On Sun, 25 Aug 2013 10:49:32 -0600, bud--
wrote:

On 8/24/2013 1:56 PM, wrote:
On Sat, 24 Aug 2013 12:30:32 -0700 (PDT), "
wrote:

Three zones on a single system, like the poster
is talking about? Or a two story house that has two entirely
separate systems. The latter is common here too, but not zoning
within a system.

Zoning is not common.

If you zone a conventional system you have less air over the evaporator.
Less heat will be transferred to the evaporator. The evaporator can get
too cold and freeze up. I assume this can be prevented by a 'freeze
stat' on the evaporator to shut down the compressor, but it is added
complexity and short-cycling also has to be avoided. I suspect
dehumidification may not be as effective.

Good point about the freezing. I would think dehumidification would
be better with a colder coil, though (until it froze).

The biggest problem with our current system is dehumidification. If
it did a better job I'm sure I could bump up the temperature a few
degrees. I'll probably have to replace the system(s) in a couple of
years, though. I replaced one of the coils last year and the guy said
the system wasn't long for the world (it's only six years old now).


I haven't seen a zoned conventional system. One major company that adds
air conditioning to existing forced air houses wanted existing zoning
defeated for air conditioning so all zones were open and only one
thermostat controlled the system. Do they make 2-stage compressors?


My understanding is that room outlets may have to be rebalanced between
heating and cooling, particularly 2 floor. Outlets could be closed in
rooms that are not used, but freeze-up may be a problem.

I assume it's a matter of how many are closed. One or two bedrooms
and closets(!) shouldn't cause much of a problem.

On 8/24/2013 1:56 PM, wrote:
On Sat, 24 Aug 2013 12:30:32 -0700 (PDT), "
wrote:

Three zones on a single system, like the poster
is talking about? Or a two story house that has two entirely
separate systems. The latter is common here too, but not zoning
within a system.

Zoning is not common.

If you zone a conventional system you have less air over the evaporator.
Less heat will be transferred to the evaporator. The evaporator can get
too cold and freeze up. I assume this can be prevented by a 'freeze
stat' on the evaporator to shut down the compressor, but it is added
complexity and short-cycling also has to be avoided. I suspect
dehumidification may not be as effective.

I haven't seen a zoned conventional system. One major company that adds
air conditioning to existing forced air houses wanted existing zoning
defeated for air conditioning so all zones were open and only one
thermostat controlled the system. Do they make 2-stage compressors?


My understanding is that room outlets may have to be rebalanced between
heating and cooling, particularly 2 floor. Outlets could be closed in
rooms that are not used, but freeze-up may be a problem.

On Sat, 24 Aug 2013 21:44:40 -0400, wrote:

On Sat, 24 Aug 2013 13:54:34 -0700, Oren wrote:

On Sat, 24 Aug 2013 13:09:01 -0400, wrote:


The thing that is holding me back on the 3 head minisplit right now is
the placement of the ceiling cassette and how I will deal with the
condensate. I would like to avoid a pump.

http://gfretwell.com/ftp/house%20plan%20AC1.jpg

What is a "ceiling cassette"?

A square evaporator that can go in the ceiling or even drop into a 2x2
T bar ceiling hole.
Air comes out all 4 sides and the return is up the middle.

http://www.fujitsugeneral.com/comp_cassette.htm

Thanks. It looks like there is only "one" side that can accommodate a
4" duct. correct? The other sides cool/heat the LR, DR & Kitchen?

You mention the condensate line, can it be run the shortest route to
an outside wall above the ceiling? (just thinking)

On Sat, 24 Aug 2013 17:35:10 -0500, The Daring Dufas
wrote:

What is a "ceiling cassette"?


I've installed them and it's a self contained air handler and evaporator
that is designed to fit suspended ceilings 2 foot by 2 foot in a space
taken by two ceiling tiles. The units can also be ceiling mounted in
other types of ceilings by cutting out a large enough opening. The air
is drawn in through the center where the filter is and the conditioned
air is discharged around the periphery of the unit. There are both
commercial and residential systems. It's a mini-split in a different
form. ^_^

http://www.fujitsugeneral.com/cassette.htm

Thanks. I was curious about the duct shown in gfretwell's drawing.

It appears there are "knockouts" if you want to run two 4" ducts? A
PDF seemed to show one side having a _whachamacallit_ for a 4" duct.

"Outside air can be introduced by attaching field supplied flexible
duct to fresh air knockouts."

On 8/24/13 3:14 PM, wrote:
The issue I have with electric heat is that backup is next to
impossible (though even with gas, I used wood for backup in VT). It's
a piece of cake with gas. OTOH, the need for backup is much less down
here.

Just wondering... how do you "back up" a gas heating system?

I would think that in most places that have gas available, it is much
less prone to "service disruption" as would be electric -- particularly
in an area such as central Pennsylvania, which of course sits close to
the Marcellus formation.

On 8/24/13 5:32 PM, Oren wrote:
BTW, I would avoid Selinsgrove. Knock it off the list.
Danville has a top medical trauma center. Nice area. I sold my house
in Milton to folks in the medical field. Buyers were lined up so I
picked the buyer.
Muncy is nice and family oriented. Bloomburg, I've been there a couple
times for the fairs - never checked housing though.

I've been familiar with the general area since 1987. Even had a small
apartment in the Montgomery area for a few months, but moving there
permanently in '88 wasn't going to work out.

I forgot to mention the Milton area -- how is it, generally?

I spoke to an older couple in Beavertown who built their current house
with geothermal -- they couldn't say enough about it. Cheap and
efficient for the central PA climate.