The Motor City was home to 1.9 million people in 1950, at the time
nearly identical in size to Los Angeles. Today, 700,000 inhabit Detroit,
or less than a fifth the size of L.A. That works out to 2.2 people
leaving Detroit every hour, 24 hours a day, for the last 63 years. If
the number of people who left Detroit in the last 60 years formed their
own city, it would be the nation's ninth largest, ahead of Dallas, Texas.
--
America is at that awkward stage. It's too late
to work within the system, but too early to shoot
the *******s."-- Claire Wolfe

But, would they burn down their own neighborhoods?

..
Christopher A. Young
Learn about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

On 7/30/2013 5:42 PM, Kurt Ullman wrote:
The Motor City was home to 1.9 million people in 1950, at the time
nearly identical in size to Los Angeles. Today, 700,000 inhabit Detroit,
or less than a fifth the size of L.A. That works out to 2.2 people
leaving Detroit every hour, 24 hours a day, for the last 63 years. If
the number of people who left Detroit in the last 60 years formed their
own city, it would be the nation's ninth largest, ahead of Dallas, Texas.

On 7/30/13 4:42 PM, Kurt Ullman wrote:
The Motor City was home to 1.9 million people in 1950, at the time
nearly identical in size to Los Angeles. Today, 700,000 inhabit Detroit,
or less than a fifth the size of L.A. That works out to 2.2 people
leaving Detroit every hour, 24 hours a day, for the last 63 years. If
the number of people who left Detroit in the last 60 years formed their
own city, it would be the nation's ninth largest, ahead of Dallas, Texas.


Some guy wanted to buy up some of the vacant buildings in Detroit,
demolish them, and plant some crops on the land. I think he was
thinking more in terms of truck farming or trees rather than
conventional farming. I haven't heard anything for some time about his
plan.

Kurt Ullman wrote in
m:

The Motor City was home to 1.9 million people in 1950, at the time
nearly identical in size to Los Angeles. Today, 700,000 inhabit Detroit,
or less than a fifth the size of L.A. That works out to 2.2 people
leaving Detroit every hour, 24 hours a day, for the last 63 years. If
the number of people who left Detroit in the last 60 years formed their
own city, it would be the nation's ninth largest, ahead of Dallas, Texas.

2.2 people leaving Detroit every hour,

Hmmm, wonder what % of that is leaving in a box because of drive-bys.

Again, just curious.

After removing the foundations and crack house debris, syringes, and ash
from the house fires. Might not be feasable. And the LIPs would steal
all the crops and harvest.

..
Christopher A. Young
Learn about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

On 7/30/2013 6:55 PM, Dean Hoffman wrote:


Some guy wanted to buy up some of the vacant buildings in Detroit,
demolish them, and plant some crops on the land. I think he was
thinking more in terms of truck farming or trees rather than
conventional farming. I haven't heard anything for some time about his
plan.

"Dean Hoffman" " wrote in message
...
On 7/30/13 4:42 PM, Kurt Ullman wrote:
The Motor City was home to 1.9 million people in 1950, at the time
nearly identical in size to Los Angeles. Today, 700,000 inhabit Detroit,
or less than a fifth the size of L.A. That works out to 2.2 people
leaving Detroit every hour, 24 hours a day, for the last 63 years. If
the number of people who left Detroit in the last 60 years formed their
own city, it would be the nation's ninth largest, ahead of Dallas, Texas.


Some guy wanted to buy up some of the vacant buildings in Detroit,
demolish them, and plant some crops on the land. I think he was thinking
more in terms of truck farming or trees rather than conventional farming.
I haven't heard anything for some time about his plan.

It's happening in several cities around the Great Lakes. Cleveland now has
a large downtown truck garden some of which is under cover so vegetables can
be grown year round. There's a fruit orchard and even a vineyard. The
first crop of grapes will be harvested this year.

Tomsic

"Stormin Mormon" wrote in message
...
After removing the foundations and crack house debris, syringes, and ash
from the house fires. Might not be feasable. And the LIPs would steal all
the crops and harvest.

.
Christopher A. Young
Learn about Jesus
www.lds.org
.

On 7/30/2013 6:55 PM, Dean Hoffman wrote:


Some guy wanted to buy up some of the vacant buildings in Detroit,
demolish them, and plant some crops on the land. I think he was
thinking more in terms of truck farming or trees rather than
conventional farming. I haven't heard anything for some time about his
plan.

You underestimate the human spirit, Stormin. Get some facts. Here are a
couple of places to start:

http://www.hantzfarmsdetroit.com/

http://www.freep.com/article/2013052...dening-detroit

Tomsic

"Food insecurity and social justice issues". Well, I see the liberals
are still running Detroit. It was nice to see some pictures of teenagers
tending gardens. I hope that works out well for Detroit. I suspect it
will work as well as the War on Poverty, March Against Violence, Occupy
Wall Street, and all the other liberal leftist programs that have come
and gone.

Yes, I'm a lot cynical. Just as what King Midas touches turns to gold,
what the government touches turns to cost overruns.

..
Christopher A. Young
Learn about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

On 7/30/2013 10:37 PM, Tomsic wrote:

You underestimate the human spirit, Stormin. Get some facts. Here are a
couple of places to start:

http://www.hantzfarmsdetroit.com/

http://www.freep.com/article/2013052...dening-detroit

Tomsic

On 7/30/2013 10:27 PM, Tomsic wrote:
"Dean Hoffman" " wrote in message
...
On 7/30/13 4:42 PM, Kurt Ullman wrote:
The Motor City was home to 1.9 million people in 1950, at the time
nearly identical in size to Los Angeles. Today, 700,000 inhabit Detroit,
or less than a fifth the size of L.A. That works out to 2.2 people
leaving Detroit every hour, 24 hours a day, for the last 63 years. If
the number of people who left Detroit in the last 60 years formed their
own city, it would be the nation's ninth largest, ahead of Dallas, Texas.


Some guy wanted to buy up some of the vacant buildings in Detroit,
demolish them, and plant some crops on the land. I think he was thinking
more in terms of truck farming or trees rather than conventional farming.
I haven't heard anything for some time about his plan.

It's happening in several cities around the Great Lakes. Cleveland now has
a large downtown truck garden some of which is under cover so vegetables can
be grown year round. There's a fruit orchard and even a vineyard. The
first crop of grapes will be harvested this year.

Tomsic




I've been looking at the comparison with Cleveland.
Cleveland also underwent form of bankruptcy 1977 under then mayor,
Dennis Kucinich.
City today is declining still and losing residents and abandoned houses
are being demolished for urban gardening. Don't think the city is in as
bad shape as Detroit.

On Tue, 30 Jul 2013 17:42:35 -0400, Kurt Ullman
wrote:

The Motor City was home to 1.9 million people in 1950, at the time
nearly identical in size to Los Angeles. Today, 700,000 inhabit Detroit,
or less than a fifth the size of L.A. That works out to 2.2 people
leaving Detroit every hour, 24 hours a day, for the last 63 years. If
the number of people who left Detroit in the last 60 years formed their
own city, it would be the nation's ninth largest, ahead of Dallas, Texas.

Smart people left when the taxes got so ridiculous and because of the
progressive liberal social polices.

I've seen one report that says that only 10% of pensions are funded
into the future.

Tax and Spend - see where it got them...

On Tue, 30 Jul 2013 23:08:20 +0000 (UTC), Red Green
wrote:


2.2 people leaving Detroit every hour,

Hmmm, wonder what % of that is leaving in a box because of drive-bys.

Again, just curious.

Have you watched _Hardcore Pawn_ in Detroit....

That is enough to make a grown person leave

On 7/31/2013 9:11 AM, Oren wrote:
On Tue, 30 Jul 2013 17:42:35 -0400, Kurt Ullman
wrote:

The Motor City was home to 1.9 million people in 1950, at the time
nearly identical in size to Los Angeles. Today, 700,000 inhabit Detroit,
or less than a fifth the size of L.A.

Smart people left when the taxes got so ridiculous and because of the
progressive liberal social polices.

I've seen one report that says that only 10% of pensions are funded
into the future.

Tax and Spend - see where it got them...


That is one of the problems, but the decreasing population is another.
It still costs the same to plow the snow with 700,000 people as it did
for the 1.9 million. Same with street lights and many other services.

You can cut the number of teachers in the schools (but did they?), but
you still have to heat the building.

Meantime, I doubt the population will ever come back near the old levels
so costs must be cut.

In article ,
Ed Pawlowski wrote:


You can cut the number of teachers in the schools (but did they?), but
you still have to heat the building.

But you shouldn't have to heat as many buildings.
--
America is at that awkward stage. It's too late
to work within the system, but too early to shoot
the *******s."-- Claire Wolfe

On Wed, 31 Jul 2013 11:46:52 -0400, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

On 7/31/2013 9:11 AM, Oren wrote:
On Tue, 30 Jul 2013 17:42:35 -0400, Kurt Ullman
wrote:

The Motor City was home to 1.9 million people in 1950, at the time
nearly identical in size to Los Angeles. Today, 700,000 inhabit Detroit,
or less than a fifth the size of L.A.

Smart people left when the taxes got so ridiculous and because of the
progressive liberal social polices.

I've seen one report that says that only 10% of pensions are funded
into the future.

Tax and Spend - see where it got them...


That is one of the problems, but the decreasing population is another.
It still costs the same to plow the snow with 700,000 people as it did
for the 1.9 million. Same with street lights and many other services.

You can cut the number of teachers in the schools (but did they?), but
you still have to heat the building.

Meantime, I doubt the population will ever come back near the old levels
so costs must be cut.

The city should privatize services. Let investors move there and
invest.

On Wed, 31 Jul 2013 12:06:11 -0400, Kurt Ullman
wrote:

You can cut the number of teachers in the schools (but did they?), but
you still have to heat the building.

But you shouldn't have to heat as many buildings.


Demo the buildings in a way you can sell lumber from the 30's onward?

Ed Pawlowski wrote:

On 7/31/2013 9:11 AM, Oren wrote:
On Tue, 30 Jul 2013 17:42:35 -0400, Kurt Ullman
wrote:

The Motor City was home to 1.9 million people in 1950, at the time
nearly identical in size to Los Angeles. Today, 700,000 inhabit Detroit,
or less than a fifth the size of L.A.

Smart people left when the taxes got so ridiculous and because of the
progressive liberal social polices.

I've seen one report that says that only 10% of pensions are funded
into the future.

Tax and Spend - see where it got them...


That is one of the problems, but the decreasing population is another.
It still costs the same to plow the snow with 700,000 people as it did
for the 1.9 million. Same with street lights and many other services.

You can cut the number of teachers in the schools (but did they?), but
you still have to heat the building.

Meantime, I doubt the population will ever come back near the old levels
so costs must be cut.

Tax and spend, along with import crime ala section 8 housing is what
caused much of the population decline.

On 07/31/2013 11:30 AM, Pete C. wrote:

Tax and spend, along with import crime ala section 8 housing is what
caused much of the population decline.

People can put up with a lot of taxation, but when they start to see
their family, friends, and neighbors increasingly becoming the victims
of violent crimes, they tend to leave rather quickly.

Jon

On Tue, 30 Jul 2013 17:42:35 -0400, Kurt Ullman
wrote:

The Motor City was home to 1.9 million people in 1950, at the time
nearly identical in size to Los Angeles. Today, 700,000 inhabit Detroit,
or less than a fifth the size of L.A. That works out to 2.2 people
leaving Detroit every hour, 24 hours a day, for the last 63 years. If
the number of people who left Detroit in the last 60 years formed their
own city, it would be the nation's ninth largest, ahead of Dallas, Texas.


I visited my Sister when she lived in Detroit in the late 70's. It
was more then obvious at that time that the city was a rotting
cesspool. The freeways in the middle of the day were so unsafe if you
had a flat and left your car unattended that the chances that you'd
still have tires and wheels on it when you returned were about 50-50.
I saw this over and over again. I have NEVER seen cars on a freeway,
then or since, anywhere else in the US that had their wheels stolen
like this in broad daylight on the side of a busy freeway. They need
to take Detroit and burn it to the ground. Virtually every major city
that's been controlled by democrats for most of it's existence is
going the way of Detroit.

On Wed, 31 Jul 2013 10:16:22 -0700, Oren wrote:

On Wed, 31 Jul 2013 11:46:52 -0400, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

On 7/31/2013 9:11 AM, Oren wrote:
On Tue, 30 Jul 2013 17:42:35 -0400, Kurt Ullman
wrote:

The Motor City was home to 1.9 million people in 1950, at the time
nearly identical in size to Los Angeles. Today, 700,000 inhabit Detroit,
or less than a fifth the size of L.A.

Smart people left when the taxes got so ridiculous and because of the
progressive liberal social polices.

I've seen one report that says that only 10% of pensions are funded
into the future.

Tax and Spend - see where it got them...


That is one of the problems, but the decreasing population is another.
It still costs the same to plow the snow with 700,000 people as it did
for the 1.9 million. Same with street lights and many other services.

You can cut the number of teachers in the schools (but did they?), but
you still have to heat the building.

Meantime, I doubt the population will ever come back near the old levels
so costs must be cut.

The city should privatize services. Let investors move there and
invest.

Invest in what? Corner the market on slums? Imagine trying to
collect on that huge deadbeat population.

Some good videos on Youtube, about Detroit, and the problems there. Lack
of services such as police and ambulance. And there are plenty of
arsonists, the fire department is under funded, and way over worked. The
empty houses are numerous.

..
Christopher A. Young
Learn about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

On 8/3/2013 4:37 AM, Ashton Crusher wrote:


I visited my Sister when she lived in Detroit in the late 70's. It
was more then obvious at that time that the city was a rotting
cesspool. The freeways in the middle of the day were so unsafe if you
had a flat and left your car unattended that the chances that you'd
still have tires and wheels on it when you returned were about 50-50.
I saw this over and over again. I have NEVER seen cars on a freeway,
then or since, anywhere else in the US that had their wheels stolen
like this in broad daylight on the side of a busy freeway. They need
to take Detroit and burn it to the ground. Virtually every major city
that's been controlled by democrats for most of it's existence is
going the way of Detroit.

With the Detroit local population being used to "everything being free"
and provided by the govt. Private investors for service are not likely
to be willing to pay even courtesy copayments. After all, they "got the
service for free" for so long.

I had that problem with refrigerated coolers, one time. The company
provided them "free" as merchandisers. After the company dropped them
from the maint list, I asked some store managers if they would like to
pay me to maintain the machines. "Why would we pay to maintain a free
cooler?"

..
Christopher A. Young
Learn about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

On 8/3/2013 4:40 AM, Ashton Crusher wrote:


The city should privatize services. Let investors move there and
invest.

Invest in what? Corner the market on slums? Imagine trying to
collect on that huge deadbeat population.

On 8/3/2013 3:37 AM, Ashton Crusher wrote:
On Tue, 30 Jul 2013 17:42:35 -0400, Kurt Ullman
wrote:

The Motor City was home to 1.9 million people in 1950, at the time
nearly identical in size to Los Angeles. Today, 700,000 inhabit Detroit,
or less than a fifth the size of L.A. That works out to 2.2 people
leaving Detroit every hour, 24 hours a day, for the last 63 years. If
the number of people who left Detroit in the last 60 years formed their
own city, it would be the nation's ninth largest, ahead of Dallas, Texas.


I visited my Sister when she lived in Detroit in the late 70's. It
was more then obvious at that time that the city was a rotting
cesspool. The freeways in the middle of the day were so unsafe if you
had a flat and left your car unattended that the chances that you'd
still have tires and wheels on it when you returned were about 50-50.
I saw this over and over again. I have NEVER seen cars on a freeway,
then or since, anywhere else in the US that had their wheels stolen
like this in broad daylight on the side of a busy freeway. They need
to take Detroit and burn it to the ground. Virtually every major city
that's been controlled by democrats for most of it's existence is
going the way of Detroit.


Even when the numb sheeple are shown what Chicago has become, they will
say that's awful then something shiny attracts their attention out of
the corner of their eye......iPhone! Cool, where did you get yours?!
They have completely forgotten the plight of the city you were just
talking about. Perhaps if it were texted to them over and over it would
hold their attention for more than a minute? ^_^

TDD

On 8/3/2013 4:37 AM, Ashton Crusher wrote:
On Tue, 30 Jul 2013 17:42:35 -0400, Kurt Ullman
wrote:

The Motor City was home to 1.9 million people in 1950, at the time
nearly identical in size to Los Angeles. Today, 700,000 inhabit Detroit,
or less than a fifth the size of L.A. That works out to 2.2 people
leaving Detroit every hour, 24 hours a day, for the last 63 years. If
the number of people who left Detroit in the last 60 years formed their
own city, it would be the nation's ninth largest, ahead of Dallas, Texas.


I visited my Sister when she lived in Detroit in the late 70's. It
was more then obvious at that time that the city was a rotting
cesspool. The freeways in the middle of the day were so unsafe if you
had a flat and left your car unattended that the chances that you'd
still have tires and wheels on it when you returned were about 50-50.
I saw this over and over again. I have NEVER seen cars on a freeway,
then or since, anywhere else in the US that had their wheels stolen
like this in broad daylight on the side of a busy freeway. They need
to take Detroit and burn it to the ground. Virtually every major city
that's been controlled by democrats for most of it's existence is
going the way of Detroit.


I remember a nice clean city 50 years ago and then what you describe 25
years ago. It was not that the city government did not see what was
coming. They should have been clamping down on crime and trying to
attract new businesses. Lots of other cities have been through this and
survived.

In article ,
Ashton Crusher wrote:

I saw this over and over again. I have NEVER seen cars on a freeway,
then or since, anywhere else in the US that had their wheels stolen
like this in broad daylight on the side of a busy freeway. They need
to take Detroit and burn it to the ground. Virtually every major city
that's been controlled by democrats for most of it's existence is
going the way of Detroit.

When I was in J-school in the mid-70s I had a retired Marine friend who
did a summer internship with a Detroit newspaper. He said he was shot
more often in Detroit over the summer than during his VN tour.
--
America is at that awkward stage. It's too late
to work within the system, but too early to shoot
the *******s."-- Claire Wolfe

That settles it. The US should immediately pull out of Detroit, and
Washington DC.

..
Christopher A. Young
Learn about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

On 8/3/2013 9:48 AM, Kurt Ullman wrote:

When I was in J-school in the mid-70s I had a retired Marine friend who
did a summer internship with a Detroit newspaper. He said he was shot
more often in Detroit over the summer than during his VN tour.

On 8/3/2013 8:48 AM, Kurt Ullman wrote:
In article ,
Ashton Crusher wrote:

I saw this over and over again. I have NEVER seen cars on a freeway,
then or since, anywhere else in the US that had their wheels stolen
like this in broad daylight on the side of a busy freeway. They need
to take Detroit and burn it to the ground. Virtually every major city
that's been controlled by democrats for most of it's existence is
going the way of Detroit.

When I was in J-school in the mid-70s I had a retired Marine friend who
did a summer internship with a Detroit newspaper. He said he was shot
more often in Detroit over the summer than during his VN tour.


But, but, guns are illegal for most people to own in Detroit and there
are "Gun Free Zones" all over Detroit and only police should have guns
because they don't go around shooting people unless they deserve it and
if your house is broken into by an innocent young Black child, you
should call the police then run hide under the bed because a burglar or
home invader would never think of looking for you there so we need to
make guns illegal except for police and soldiers and stuff.... o_O

TDD

On Sat, 03 Aug 2013 10:03:45 -0500, The Daring Dufas
wrote:

But, but, guns are illegal for most people to own in Detroit and there
are "Gun Free Zones" all over Detroit and only police should have guns
because they don't go around shooting people unless they deserve it and
if your house is broken into by an innocent young Black child, you
should call the police then run hide under the bed because a burglar or
home invader would never think of looking for you there so we need to
make guns illegal except for police and soldiers and stuff.... o_O

TDD

That sounds remarkably like Biilybong, Sandroid and Dudu. G

On Sat, 03 Aug 2013 01:40:23 -0700, Ashton Crusher
wrote:

On Wed, 31 Jul 2013 10:16:22 -0700, Oren wrote:

On Wed, 31 Jul 2013 11:46:52 -0400, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

On 7/31/2013 9:11 AM, Oren wrote:
On Tue, 30 Jul 2013 17:42:35 -0400, Kurt Ullman
wrote:

The Motor City was home to 1.9 million people in 1950, at the time
nearly identical in size to Los Angeles. Today, 700,000 inhabit Detroit,
or less than a fifth the size of L.A.

Smart people left when the taxes got so ridiculous and because of the
progressive liberal social polices.

I've seen one report that says that only 10% of pensions are funded
into the future.

Tax and Spend - see where it got them...


That is one of the problems, but the decreasing population is another.
It still costs the same to plow the snow with 700,000 people as it did
for the 1.9 million. Same with street lights and many other services.

You can cut the number of teachers in the schools (but did they?), but
you still have to heat the building.

Meantime, I doubt the population will ever come back near the old levels
so costs must be cut.

The city should privatize services. Let investors move there and
invest.

Invest in what? Corner the market on slums? Imagine trying to
collect on that huge deadbeat population.

Actually, investors don't have to move there? The police, fire and
medical could be farmed out to the private sector. Even sanitation,
etc.

The radicals cannot blame republicans for the disaster. They have been
in charge since 1962.

"Louis C. Miriani (January 1, 1897 – October 18, 1987) was an American
politician who served as mayor of Detroit, Michigan (1957–62). He was
the last Republican mayor of Detroit."

He even served time for tax evasion.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Louis_Miriani

On 8/3/2013 11:42 AM, Oren wrote:
On Sat, 03 Aug 2013 10:03:45 -0500, The Daring Dufas
wrote:

But, but, guns are illegal for most people to own in Detroit and there
are "Gun Free Zones" all over Detroit and only police should have guns
because they don't go around shooting people unless they deserve it and
if your house is broken into by an innocent young Black child, you
should call the police then run hide under the bed because a burglar or
home invader would never think of looking for you there so we need to
make guns illegal except for police and soldiers and stuff.... o_O

TDD

That sounds remarkably like Biilybong, Sandroid and Dudu. G


I was doing my best to imitate our enemas. You know, those idiots who
get up our collective asses. o_O

TDD

In article ,
Oren wrote:

He even served time for tax evasion.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Louis_Miriani

He can't be a true Republican then. We all know that GOP scandals
involve sex and ignoring family values. The Dems all don't pay taxes.
Has sorta fascinated me the way the scandals have worked over the last
few years.
--
America is at that awkward stage. It's too late
to work within the system, but too early to shoot
the *******s."-- Claire Wolfe

On Sat, 03 Aug 2013 12:02:47 -0500, The Daring Dufas
wrote:

On 8/3/2013 11:42 AM, Oren wrote:
On Sat, 03 Aug 2013 10:03:45 -0500, The Daring Dufas
wrote:

But, but, guns are illegal for most people to own in Detroit and there
are "Gun Free Zones" all over Detroit and only police should have guns
because they don't go around shooting people unless they deserve it and
if your house is broken into by an innocent young Black child, you
should call the police then run hide under the bed because a burglar or
home invader would never think of looking for you there so we need to
make guns illegal except for police and soldiers and stuff.... o_O

TDD

That sounds remarkably like Biilybong, Sandroid and Dudu. G


I was doing my best to imitate our enemas. You know, those idiots who
get up our collective asses. o_O

TDD

Congratulations. Your sure did a darn fine job. It sounds just like
those radicals
..

Ashton Crusher wrote in
:

On Tue, 30 Jul 2013 17:42:35 -0400, Kurt Ullman
wrote:

The Motor City was home to 1.9 million people in 1950, at the time
nearly identical in size to Los Angeles. Today, 700,000 inhabit
Detroit, or less than a fifth the size of L.A. That works out to 2.2
people leaving Detroit every hour, 24 hours a day, for the last 63
years. If the number of people who left Detroit in the last 60 years
formed their own city, it would be the nation's ninth largest, ahead
of Dallas, Texas.


I visited my Sister when she lived in Detroit in the late 70's. It
was more then obvious at that time that the city was a rotting
cesspool. The freeways in the middle of the day were so unsafe if you
had a flat and left your car unattended that the chances that you'd
still have tires and wheels on it when you returned were about 50-50.
I saw this over and over again. I have NEVER seen cars on a freeway,
then or since, anywhere else in the US that had their wheels stolen
like this in broad daylight on the side of a busy freeway.

Parts of the Bronx

They need
to take Detroit and burn it to the ground.

I hope the TV show "The Dome" is a pilot for Detroit.

Virtually every major city
that's been controlled by democrats for most of it's existence is
going the way of Detroit.