Lumberyard advice is that pressure-treated lumber should
not be burned for fireplace heat, because of the metals
soaked into it. Inside an airtight wood stove however
(the double chimney regularly swept every year), I cannot
see any problem.

Don P
Ottawa, Canada

On Sat, 29 Jun 2013 15:48:43 -0400, Don Phillipson
wrote:

Lumberyard advice is that pressure-treated lumber should
not be burned for fireplace heat, because of the metals
soaked into it. Inside an airtight wood stove however
(the double chimney regularly swept every year), I cannot
see any problem.

What about the other people who live nearby? What about you when you
go outside?

How is an airtight stove any safer for people than a fireplace?

Airtight means room air doesn't get in the stove, not that air doesn't
leave the stove.

Just one of loads of articles:
http://lcaqmd.net/DangeroustoBurnTreated.htm

Don P
Ottawa, Canada

On Sat, 29 Jun 2013 16:18:13 -0400, micky
wrote:

On Sat, 29 Jun 2013 15:48:43 -0400, Don Phillipson
wrote:

Lumberyard advice is that pressure-treated lumber should
not be burned for fireplace heat, because of the metals
soaked into it. Inside an airtight wood stove however
(the double chimney regularly swept every year), I cannot

Do you tell the sweep that you've been burning treated wood? So he
can wear a respirator or refuse the job?

see any problem.

What about the other people who live nearby? What about you when you
go outside?

How is an airtight stove any safer for people than a fireplace?

Airtight means room air doesn't get in the stove, not that air doesn't
leave the stove.

Just one of loads of articles:
http://lcaqmd.net/DangeroustoBurnTreated.htm

Don P
Ottawa, Canada

On Sat, 29 Jun 2013 15:48:43 -0400, Don Phillipson
wrote:

Lumberyard advice is that pressure-treated lumber should
not be burned for fireplace heat, because of the metals
soaked into it. Inside an airtight wood stove however
(the double chimney regularly swept every year), I cannot
see any problem.

Don P
Ottawa, Canada

What about the neighbors down wind?

On Sat, 29 Jun 2013 15:48:43 -0400, Don Phillipson
wrote:

Lumberyard advice is that pressure-treated lumber should
not be burned for fireplace heat, because of the metals
soaked into it. Inside an airtight wood stove however
(the double chimney regularly swept every year), I cannot
see any problem.

"micky" wrote in message
...

What about the other people who live nearby? What about you when you
go outside?

22 houses between here and the crossroads 3/4 mile
distant. Most also have wood stoves. My chimney is
about 30 ft. above grade.

The sweeps' health (e.g. exposure to skin cancers)
is a valid point. But of course they know soot is corrosive
(and contain soot mainly so as not to offend householders.)

Just one of loads of articles:
http://lcaqmd.net/DangeroustoBurnTreated.htm

Local regulations cited at this URL permit dumping waste
wood in landfill, not allowed here. The three harmful chemicals
discussed include creosote, found in all timber (abundant
in resinous softwoods.) Something seems fishy about
"a misdemeanor . . . liable for severe civil penalties."

--
Don Phillipson
Carlsbad Springs
(Ottawa, Canada)

Don Phillipson wrote:
Lumberyard advice is that pressure-treated lumber should
not be burned for fireplace heat, because of the metals
soaked into it. Inside an airtight wood stove however
(the double chimney regularly swept every year), I cannot
see any problem.

Don P
Ottawa, Canada
Hmmm,
Bad, bad, bad idea. All my FPs are NG burner.
Even out at my cabin. It's not only your chimney.
You are releasing toxic gas into the air.
Calgary, AB CA

Tammy Faye put on too much makeup, and the studio goes up in flames!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_PTL_Club

What? That's not it? First thing I thought, when I read that subject line.
..
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..
..
"Don Phillipson" wrote in message ...
Lumberyard advice is that pressure-treated lumber should
not be burned for fireplace heat, because of the metals
soaked into it. Inside an airtight wood stove however
(the double chimney regularly swept every year), I cannot
see any problem.

Don P
Ottawa, Canada

On Sat, 29 Jun 2013 15:48:43 -0400, Don Phillipson
wrote:

Lumberyard advice is that pressure-treated lumber should
not be burned for fireplace heat, because of the metals
soaked into it. Inside an airtight wood stove however
(the double chimney regularly swept every year), I cannot
see any problem.

Don P
Ottawa, Canada
You cannot see a problem - but that does not make it safe or
adviseable.

Don Phillipson wrote:
Lumberyard advice is that pressure-treated lumber should
not be burned for fireplace heat, because of the metals
soaked into it. Inside an airtight wood stove however
(the double chimney regularly swept every year), I cannot
see any problem.

Don P
Ottawa, Canada

Pine is not good for a wood stove.

Greg

"Don Phillipson" wrote in message
...
Lumberyard advice is that pressure-treated lumber should
not be burned for fireplace heat, because of the metals
soaked into it. Inside an airtight wood stove however
(the double chimney regularly swept every year), I cannot
see any problem.

Don P
Ottawa, Canada

The ash created is even more toxic. What do you do with that?
Dunno what you use over there but arsenic and copper timber
treatments have been banned over here for years.
If you burn say old fencing outdoors, you will get these poisons
into the soil where they remain for years until washed away.

On Sun, 30 Jun 2013 04:34:47 +0000 (UTC), gregz
wrote:




Pine is not good for a wood stove.

Greg

You just have to burn it hotter to avoid the creosote buildup. I know
people that have burned if for years. I've burned it when I had it.

On 6/29/2013 4:30 PM, Don Phillipson wrote:
....

... Something seems fishy about
"a misdemeanor . . . liable for severe civil penalties."

Why's that?

A misdemeanor means it's "only" a (relatively) minor criminal violation.
That has nothing whatsoever to do w/ civil liability. There could
still be heavy fines, etc., for civil suit or administrative fines
levied (EPA, etc.)

--

On 6/30/2013 12:34 AM, gregz wrote:


Pine is not good for a wood stove.

Greg


Pine is fine if it is dry. Wet wood is not good for a wood stove. Best thing to do is get a wood moisture meter.

On Sun, 30 Jun 2013 09:55:56 -0400, Ted wrote:

On 6/30/2013 12:34 AM, gregz wrote:


Pine is not good for a wood stove.

Greg


Pine is fine if it is dry. Wet wood is not good for a wood stove. Best thing to do is get a wood moisture meter.

Listen to the wood. Clink is dry, thunk is wet.

gregz wrote:
Don Phillipson wrote:
Lumberyard advice is that pressure-treated lumber should
not be burned for fireplace heat, because of the metals
soaked into it. Inside an airtight wood stove however
(the double chimney regularly swept every year), I cannot
see any problem.

Don P
Ottawa, Canada

Pine is not good for a wood stove.

Greg

Hi,
Pine and PTL is two different thing.

On Saturday, June 29, 2013 9:34:47 PM UTC-7, Gz wrote:
Don Phillipson wrote:

Lumberyard advice is that pressure-treated lumber should

not be burned for fireplace heat, because of the metals

soaked into it. Inside an airtight wood stove however

(the double chimney regularly swept every year), I cannot

see any problem.



Don P

Ottawa, Canada



Pine is not good for a wood stove.



Greg

So you heard an old-wives tale eh? I can put money on it that _you_ have never burned pine and not even known anyone who did.

Clue: properly seasoned pine puts out no more creosote than any properly seasoned hardwood.

2nd clue: unseasoned pine is fine for the "stove". Doesn't do it a bit of harm at all. The chimney is a different kettle of fish.

3rd clue: If you are going to post something, at least know something about it.

Harry K

On 6/30/2013 10:37 AM, Tony Hwang wrote:
....

Pine and PTL is two different thing.

Virtually all PTL is SYP(ine)...

--

Anyone that burns fire wood should know that wood cells are initially full of water when the tree is alive. Such "green" wood doesn't burn well and doesn't throw much heat because of all the moisture in it.

Once the water inside the hollow wood cells has evaporated, then the moisture in the wood cell walls begins to evaporate. As this moisture evaporates, the cell walls become thinner and stiffer, just like a cellulose sponge becomes thinner and stiffer as it dries out.

Because of the larger number of wood cell walls as one goes around the perimeter of a growth ring, wood shrinks the most in the direction tangent to the growth rings. That causes a tensile stress (a "pulling" force) in the wood along the growth rings, causing cracks to open up in the radial direction, like this:



Those cracks are called "checks".

Once you see those radial "checks" forming, then you know that all of the liquid water has evaporated from the hollow wood cell interiors, and the wood cell walls are drying out. That means that MOST of the moisture is has evaporated from the wood (at the end grain of the wood at least).

With continued drying, not only will those radial checks become larger, but checks will start to form ALONG the growth rings as well due to shrinkage of the wood in the radial direction, like this:



Once you see those checks following the direction of the growth rings, then the wood is even dryer than in the first picture. If it wuz my stove, this is the stage where I'd use the wood as fire wood.

Because of the evaporation of water from the wood throughout the drying process, you'll notice that the wood gets considerably lighter in weight as it dries out.

With continued drying, those checks become wider and more numerous, but there will always be more checks in the radial direction and they will be larger than the checks that follow the growth rings.

On Sat, 29 Jun 2013 17:30:59 -0400, "Don Phillipson"
wrote:

On Sat, 29 Jun 2013 15:48:43 -0400, Don Phillipson
wrote:

Lumberyard advice is that pressure-treated lumber should
not be burned for fireplace heat, because of the metals
soaked into it. Inside an airtight wood stove however
(the double chimney regularly swept every year), I cannot
see any problem.

"micky" wrote in message
.. .

What about the other people who live nearby? What about you when you
go outside?

And what about your pets and theirs?. And wild animals?

22 houses between here and the crossroads 3/4 mile
distant.

That's a lot. What is your point?

Most also have wood stoves.

So go ask them if they burn PTL.

I know that Canadian air sometimes blows down to the US, so I'd like
you stop.

I offered some free wood when I took down my old deck. When a guy
called for firewood, I asked him if he could tell the difference
between treated and non-treated, He couldn't so I didn't give him any
of it.

My chimney is
about 30 ft. above grade.

So is mine. So are many. I havent' seen any warning make an
exception for high chimneys and this isn't even very high.

The sweeps' health (e.g. exposure to skin cancers)
is a valid point. But of course they know soot is corrosive

Corrosive and poisonous are two different things.

(and contain soot mainly so as not to offend householders.)

The stuff they inhale won't offend the householders. They're going to
want to take more precautions if arsenic is involved. They might want
to refuse the work.

Just one of loads of articles:
http://lcaqmd.net/DangeroustoBurnTreated.htm

Local regulations cited at this URL permit dumping waste
wood in landfill, not allowed here.

Why don't you call the government and ask them what they think about
burning PTL. Ask them what you should do with it.

The three harmful chemicals
discussed include creosote, found in all timber (abundant
in resinous softwoods.)

But chromated copper arsenate and ammoniacal copper arsenate are not.


Something seems fishy about
"a misdemeanor . . . liable for severe civil penalties."

Not to me. In some US states, a misdemeanor is a crime for which the
max prison term is one year or less. Other penalties can still be
high.

On Sun, 30 Jun 2013 10:54:44 -0500, dpb wrote:

On 6/30/2013 10:37 AM, Tony Hwang wrote:
...

Pine and PTL is two different thing.

Virtually all PTL is SYP(ine)...
In your area perhaps. Arounf here it is SPF (spruce, Pine, or Fir)
and spmetimes dome hemlock or Larth thrown in for good measure.

dpb wrote:
On 6/30/2013 10:37 AM, Tony Hwang wrote:
...

Pine and PTL is two different thing.

Virtually all PTL is SYP(ine)...

Really????

http://www.decks.com/deckmaterials/S...e_Treated_Wood

Species & Sizes of Pressure Treated Wood


Treated wood is generally available as dimensional stock in 2x4's, 2x6's, 4x4'x,
and 2x2's for rail components. 5/4x6's and 2x6's for decking. 2x8's, 2x10's,
2x12's for joists, stair stringers, and beams. 6x6's for support posts. Also
plywood.

The predominant species of treated wood is a regionally available softwood.
Most common a

Southern Yellow Pine - Southern Pine is the most common deck framing material in
eastern United States. It is strong and stiff. SYP logs yield a high proportion
of sapwood which works well to absorb preservative.

Red and Ponderosa Pine - Less strong than SYP, found in Northern U.S. and
Canada.

Douglas fir - It is very strong and is less prone to warping and spitting than
SYP. Predominant material found in western United States and Canada

Hem-fir - It is weaker and more prone to warping and splitting than Douglas fir,
but more receptive to preservation. It encompasses a group of western species.

On 6/30/2013 12:30 PM, wrote:
On Sun, 30 Jun 2013 10:54:44 -0500, wrote:

On 6/30/2013 10:37 AM, Tony Hwang wrote:
...

Pine and PTL is two different thing.

Virtually all PTL is SYP(ine)...
In your area perhaps. Arounf here it is SPF (spruce, Pine, or Fir)
and spmetimes dome hemlock or Larth thrown in for good measure.

Similar enough that there's no real difference as far as there being no
reason to differentiate burning characteristics of stove/fireplace
outside the treatment itself...

--

On 6/30/2013 12:37 PM, Bob F wrote:
dpb wrote:
On 6/30/2013 10:37 AM, Tony Hwang wrote:
...

Pine and PTL is two different thing.

Virtually all PTL is SYP(ine)...

Really????

http://www.decks.com/deckmaterials/S...e_Treated_Wood

Species& Sizes of Pressure Treated Wood

....


Southern Yellow Pine - Southern Pine is the most common deck framing material in
eastern United States. ...
....

OK, so less than "virtually all" but certainly "a lot" ...

And the others are all softwoods as well...

--

On Sun, 30 Jun 2013 13:54:43 -0500, dpb wrote:

On 6/30/2013 12:37 PM, Bob F wrote:
dpb wrote:
On 6/30/2013 10:37 AM, Tony Hwang wrote:
...

Pine and PTL is two different thing.

Virtually all PTL is SYP(ine)...

Really????

http://www.decks.com/deckmaterials/S...e_Treated_Wood

Species& Sizes of Pressure Treated Wood

...


Southern Yellow Pine - Southern Pine is the most common deck framing material in
eastern United States. ...
...

OK, so less than "virtually all" but certainly "a lot" ...

And the others are all softwoods as well...
You would be "virtually safe" to say "virtually all PT lumber is
softwood"

On Sat, 29 Jun 2013 15:48:43 -0400, Don Phillipson
wrote:

Lumberyard advice is that pressure-treated lumber should
not be burned for fireplace heat, because of the metals
soaked into it. Inside an airtight wood stove however
(the double chimney regularly swept every year), I cannot
see any problem.

Don P
Ottawa, Canada

The old PTL contained arsenic, which is poisonous. Since they removed
the arsenic, most PTL is only treated with copper now, so it's not all
that harmful anymore. I dont know if they even say not to burn this
newer stuff????

On Wed, 10 Jul 2013 04:26:50 -0500, wrote:

On Sat, 29 Jun 2013 15:48:43 -0400, Don Phillipson
wrote:

Lumberyard advice is that pressure-treated lumber should
not be burned for fireplace heat, because of the metals
soaked into it. Inside an airtight wood stove however
(the double chimney regularly swept every year), I cannot
see any problem.

Don P
Ottawa, Canada

The old PTL contained arsenic, which is poisonous. Since they removed
the arsenic, most PTL is only treated with copper now, so it's not all
that harmful anymore. I dont know if they even say not to burn this
newer stuff????


Yes, they still say not to burn it. OMG, do you think breathing in
fumes from the ACQ is OK for the lungs?

PT is supposed to be buried or trashed for disposal.
http://www.ptw-safetyinfo.ca/acq.htm

Why risk getting some of the old stuff,
and kill yourself?
..
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..
..
wrote in message ...

The old PTL contained arsenic, which is poisonous. Since they removed
the arsenic, most PTL is only treated with copper now, so it's not all
that harmful anymore. I dont know if they even say not to burn this
newer stuff????