On Tue, 28 May 2013 21:25:39 +0000 (UTC), Danny D
wrote:

On Tue, 28 May 2013 17:00:15 -0400, krw wrote:

Have you studied the history of the tool shed, yet?

I'm still working on the geology report for the foundation
materials. Hornblende, quartz, schist, etc.

How about concrete?

Danny D writes:

On Tue, 28 May 2013 17:00:15 -0400, krw wrote:

Have you studied the history of the tool shed, yet?

I'm still working on the geology report for the foundation
materials. Hornblende, quartz, schist, etc.

Why don't you just put wheels on it?

--
Dan Espen

On Tue, 28 May 2013 19:00:15 -0400, Dan Espen
wrote:

Danny D writes:

On Tue, 28 May 2013 17:00:15 -0400, krw wrote:

Have you studied the history of the tool shed, yet?

I'm still working on the geology report for the foundation
materials. Hornblende, quartz, schist, etc.

Why don't you just put wheels on it?

He'd have to study the history of the wheel.

On Tue, 28 May 2013 19:05:48 -0400, krw wrote:

He'd have to study the history of the wheel.

It would be what material and size to make the wheels, not
necessarily the history per se.

Note: It always amazed me that the native Americans never invented
the (transportation) wheel; if only they had the USENET, they'd have
that, and steel, and gunpowder, and ...

On Tue, 28 May 2013 10:00:16 -0700, wrote:

Ignore the negative comments

Thanks for the kind advice. Luckily I have very thick skin.

By way of update, I failed miserably yesterday in cleaning the
brush where the road was *uphill* on the steep hillside.

It's hard to see in a 2D picture, but it's a steep 50' slope
where your boots sink a foot deep and often you frustratingly
break into a pile of old brush up to your hips in depth:
http://www3.picturepush.com/photo/a/...g/13184376.jpg

While great ideas came about from this thread for the downhill
cleaning, the steep uphill cleaning defied (my) human hands,
wheeled recycling bins, wheelbarrows, tarps, rope, and rakes.
http://www2.picturepush.com/photo/a/...g/13184375.jpg

In the end, this measly sickly pile of debris is all I could
tease and tug and pull out of the steep slope, where a hundred
times that amount remains, awaiting a better idea:
http://www4.picturepush.com/photo/a/...g/13184377.jpg

Verdict: Fail.

On Tue, 28 May 2013 19:00:15 -0400, Dan Espen wrote:

Why don't you just put wheels on it?

LESSONS LEARNED:
Given the ideas presented for the *downhill* slope brush cleaning,
the most useful suggestion of all was to use the tarp.
http://www3.picturepush.com/photo/a/...g/13184456.jpg

The tarp allowed me to drag the piles of brush the 150'
or so to the roadway even easier than the rope did. Plus, it
was much easier to untangle the tarp than the rope when done.
http://www2.picturepush.com/photo/a/...g/13184500.jpg

With the tarp, it wasn't easy, as an average-sized man
can move these piles as far as they need to on a flat or
downslope (e.g., moving piles 150' took only a few minutes):
http://www2.picturepush.com/photo/a/...g/13184535.jpg

Note:
The wheelbarrow held pitifully small loads, as did the
recycling bin containers (even given their large size).
I didn't have any motorized moving equipment handy.

Upslope was a whole different story however, where all the
otherwise-great ideas failed miserably (for me, anyway).

On Sun, 26 May 2013 19:37:12 +0000, Danny D wrote:

is there a hand tool for moving brush piles en masse a
hundred feet once on the roadway?

To recap the thread, the suggested tool that worked the best
in my downhill situation was the tarp.

The only thing left was to cull out all this frail stuff
so as to protect the wood chippers from breathing poison oak:
http://www2.picturepush.com/photo/a/...g/13184560.jpg

But, pulling out a few dozen vines out of a brush pile was
a trivially easy task, and, was basically the gift wrapping
for the wood chippers to make life just a bit safer for them:
http://www4.picturepush.com/photo/a/...g/13184562.jpg

They were scheduled for yesterday, but, maybe they'll come today.

On Wednesday, May 29, 2013 11:03:55 AM UTC-6, Danny D wrote:
On Tue, 28 May 2013 10:00:16 -0700, wrote:



Ignore the negative comments



Thanks for the kind advice. Luckily I have very thick skin.



By way of update, I failed miserably yesterday in cleaning the

brush where the road was *uphill* on the steep hillside.



It's hard to see in a 2D picture, but it's a steep 50' slope

where your boots sink a foot deep and often you frustratingly

break into a pile of old brush up to your hips in depth:

http://www3.picturepush.com/photo/a/...g/13184376.jpg



While great ideas came about from this thread for the downhill

cleaning, the steep uphill cleaning defied (my) human hands,

wheeled recycling bins, wheelbarrows, tarps, rope, and rakes.

http://www2.picturepush.com/photo/a/...g/13184375.jpg



In the end, this measly sickly pile of debris is all I could

tease and tug and pull out of the steep slope, where a hundred

times that amount remains, awaiting a better idea:

http://www4.picturepush.com/photo/a/...g/13184377.jpg



Verdict: Fail.

Like I told you before Danny...gather these sticks and branches with your
hands and take them into your loving arms and transport them to where
ever your heart desires. Really, it is not a difficult task as I have
done this many, many times under similar conditions and over similar
terrain.

On Tue, 28 May 2013 23:46:15 +0000 (UTC), Danny D
wrote:

On Tue, 28 May 2013 19:05:48 -0400, krw wrote:

He'd have to study the history of the wheel.

It would be what material and size to make the wheels, not
necessarily the history per se.


But you still have to study the history of lubrication.

Note: It always amazed me that the native Americans never invented
the (transportation) wheel; if only they had the USENET, they'd have
that, and steel, and gunpowder, and ...

They did have Peyote.

On Wed, 29 May 2013 10:38:40 -0700, Roy wrote:

Really, it is not a difficult task as I have done this many,
many times under similar conditions and over similar terrain.

You're a stronger man than I am, because it's fifty feet uphill,
and the hill itself is overgrown and tangled, such that you fall
with every step, most of the time doing a face plant since you're
practically vertical with the slope.

It's hard to see the slope in this picture, but, it's the
http://www4.picturepush.com/photo/a/...g/13185147.jpg

Under those conditions, while you apparently can carry loads of
brush with your hands; I tried ... and I can't (effectively).

In fact, I can't even climb the hill empty handed, without grabbing
onto tree limbs to keep from falling back down the hill. I tied
a rope to hang onto, but then that left me only one free hand to
carry all that brush up the hill with.

All I could do was "throw" the brush uphill, half the time
it didn't make it all the way, so it tumbled back down upon
me.

Since the space is penned in from every side but up, I just
couldn't do it. If you can carry armloads of brush in those
circumstances, all I can say is you're a (much) stronger man
than I am.

On Wed, 29 May 2013 17:03:55 +0000 (UTC), Danny D
wrote:

It's hard to see in a 2D picture, but it's a steep 50' slope
where your boots sink a foot deep and often you frustratingly
break into a pile of old brush up to your hips in depth:
http://www3.picturepush.com/photo/a/...g/13184376.jpg


Is this the planned location for your bright and shiny new tool shed
on a mountain side?

Please say no!

On Tue, 28 May 2013 19:00:15 -0400, Dan Espen
wrote:

Danny D writes:

On Tue, 28 May 2013 17:00:15 -0400, krw wrote:

Have you studied the history of the tool shed, yet?

I'm still working on the geology report for the foundation
materials. Hornblende, quartz, schist, etc.

Why don't you just put wheels on it?

I was thinking timber skids.

On Wed, 29 May 2013 11:22:39 -0700, Oren wrote:

Is this the planned location for your bright and shiny new
tool shed on a mountain side?

Hmmm... maybe.

Or a vineyard.

Danny D writes:

On Tue, 28 May 2013 19:00:15 -0400, Dan Espen wrote:

Why don't you just put wheels on it?

LESSONS LEARNED:
Given the ideas presented for the *downhill* slope brush cleaning,
the most useful suggestion of all was to use the tarp.
http://www3.picturepush.com/photo/a/...g/13184456.jpg

The tarp allowed me to drag the piles of brush the 150'
or so to the roadway even easier than the rope did. Plus, it
was much easier to untangle the tarp than the rope when done.
http://www2.picturepush.com/photo/a/...g/13184500.jpg

With the tarp, it wasn't easy, as an average-sized man
can move these piles as far as they need to on a flat or
downslope (e.g., moving piles 150' took only a few minutes):
http://www2.picturepush.com/photo/a/...g/13184535.jpg

Note:
The wheelbarrow held pitifully small loads, as did the
recycling bin containers (even given their large size).
I didn't have any motorized moving equipment handy.

Upslope was a whole different story however, where all the
otherwise-great ideas failed miserably (for me, anyway).

The wheels comment was regarding the tool shed which
I'm pretty sure will slide down your hill.

If you really intend to conquer this hill, so that you
can navigate up and down and clear brush, I think
you're up to the point where you need to build a stairway.

--
Dan Espen

On 5/29/2013 11:20 AM, Danny D wrote:
On Wed, 29 May 2013 10:38:40 -0700, Roy wrote:

Really, it is not a difficult task as I have done this many,
many times under similar conditions and over similar terrain.

You're a stronger man than I am, because it's fifty feet uphill,
and the hill itself is overgrown and tangled, such that you fall
with every step, most of the time doing a face plant since you're
practically vertical with the slope.

It's hard to see the slope in this picture, but, it's the
http://www4.picturepush.com/photo/a/...g/13185147.jpg

Under those conditions, while you apparently can carry loads of
brush with your hands; I tried ... and I can't (effectively).

In fact, I can't even climb the hill empty handed, without grabbing
onto tree limbs to keep from falling back down the hill. I tied
a rope to hang onto, but then that left me only one free hand to
carry all that brush up the hill with.

All I could do was "throw" the brush uphill, half the time
it didn't make it all the way, so it tumbled back down upon
me.

Since the space is penned in from every side but up, I just
couldn't do it. If you can carry armloads of brush in those
circumstances, all I can say is you're a (much) stronger man
than I am.


it it up in a bundle with your 100' rope, walk uphill, and pull.

On Wed, 29 May 2013 11:51:11 -0700, chaniarts wrote:

tie it up in a bundle with your 100' rope, walk uphill, and pull.

I'll try that next.

I had discounted that, in favor of the tarp, but the tarp
caught on so much brush that it wouldn't budge.

Likewise with the bucket. It kept flipping over and
spilling its contents.

Thanks

On Wed, 29 May 2013 10:42:12 -0700, Oren wrote:

On Tue, 28 May 2013 23:46:15 +0000 (UTC), Danny D
wrote:

On Tue, 28 May 2013 19:05:48 -0400, krw wrote:

He'd have to study the history of the wheel.

It would be what material and size to make the wheels, not
necessarily the history per se.


But you still have to study the history of lubrication.

Note: It always amazed me that the native Americans never invented
the (transportation) wheel; if only they had the USENET, they'd have
that, and steel, and gunpowder, and ...

They did have Peyote.

Right. What use did they have for the wheel?

On Wed, 29 May 2013 21:11:15 -0400, krw wrote:

What use did they have for the wheel?

This is OT, but it always amazed me that the American natives
didn't invent the (transportation) wheel. Seems so logical.

If they had better communication, e.g., the USENET, they'd
have the wheel, and a whole lot more.

The only thing they wouldn't have are all the diseases that
the white man traded with them.

The USENET is so much more hygienic than actual contact!

Danny D wrote in :

On Wed, 29 May 2013 21:11:15 -0400, krw wrote:

What use did they have for the wheel?

This is OT, but it always amazed me that the American natives
didn't invent the (transportation) wheel. Seems so logical.


Just because something is logical, doesn't mean that there is sufficient
intellegence available to take advantage of it. As an example of that see
your recent thread on moving stickes.

On May 29, 11:49*am, Dan Espen wrote:
Danny D writes:
On Tue, 28 May 2013 19:00:15 -0400, Dan Espen wrote:

Why don't you just put wheels on it?

LESSONS LEARNED:
Given the ideas presented for the *downhill* slope brush cleaning,
the most useful suggestion of all was to use the tarp.
*http://www3.picturepush.com/photo/a/...g/13184456.jpg

The tarp allowed me to drag the piles of brush the 150'
or so to the roadway even easier than the rope did. Plus, it
was much easier to untangle the tarp than the rope when done.
*http://www2.picturepush.com/photo/a/...g/13184500.jpg

With the tarp, it wasn't easy, as an average-sized man
can move these piles as far as they need to on a flat or
downslope (e.g., moving piles 150' took only a few minutes):
*http://www2.picturepush.com/photo/a/...g/13184535.jpg

Note:
The wheelbarrow held pitifully small loads, as did the
recycling bin containers (even given their large size).
I didn't have any motorized moving equipment handy.

Upslope was a whole different story however, where all the
otherwise-great ideas failed miserably (for me, anyway).

The wheels comment was regarding the tool shed which
I'm pretty sure will slide down your hill.

If you really intend to conquer this hill, so that you
can navigate up and down and clear brush, I think
you're up to the point where you need to build a stairway.

--
Dan Espen

How about a funicular railway with a "maint car w/ open platform"?
It could haul tools AND debris.

On May 29, 12:19*pm, Danny D wrote:
On Wed, 29 May 2013 11:51:11 -0700, chaniarts wrote:
tie it up in a bundle with your 100' rope, walk uphill, and pull.

I'll try that next.

I had discounted that, in favor of the tarp, but the tarp
caught on so much brush that it wouldn't budge.

Likewise with the bucket. It kept flipping over and
spilling its contents.

Thanks

DADD-
Ever wonder why downhill skiing is so much easier than uphill?

On May 29, 11:26*am, Oren wrote:
On Tue, 28 May 2013 19:00:15 -0400, Dan Espen
wrote:

Danny D writes:

On Tue, 28 May 2013 17:00:15 -0400, krw wrote:

Have you studied the history of the tool shed, yet?

I'm still working on the geology report for the foundation
materials. Hornblende, quartz, schist, etc.

Why don't you just put wheels on it?

I was thinking timber skids.

How about a funicular railway with a "maint car / platform"?
It could haul tools AND debris.

wrote:
On Sun, 26 May 2013 19:37:12 +0000 (UTC), Danny D
wrote:

I own a wood chipper, but I've learned that a 2-inch chipper takes
forever ... so ... for fire prevention, I need to arrange brush for
professional wood chipping next week, so, last night, I created a
half dozen small brush piles which need to be moved to the roadway:
http://www3.picturepush.com/photo/a/...g/13163716.jpg

I need to move some brush uphill, some downhill, and then, once on
pavement, down about a hundred or so feet into piles convenient for
the professional wood chipping crew:
http://www5.picturepush.com/photo/a/...g/13163718.jpg

My question: Not owning a pickup truck, is there a hand tool for
moving brush piles en masse a hundred feet once on the roadway?
http://www2.picturepush.com/photo/a/...g/13163720.jpg

PS: Sorry for the poor quality photos; it took far longer to
collect the brush and move it down the hill than I thought,
so these pictures are when it covered the driveway and I
was moving it to the roadway about 100 to 150 feet away.

Rake it over a rope with an eye in it, wrap the rope up over the pile,
through the eye and pull it tight.
You can drag quite a bit of the pile that way. This works particularly
well if you don't cut the pieces too short.

It's better with a tarp. Just pulling the stuff with a rope may cause
the brush to dig into the ground and drop pieces, beside being harder to
pull. The tarp will prevent that.

--
Bill
In Hamptonburgh, NY
In the original Orange County. Est. 1683
To email, remove the double zeros after @

On Wed, 29 May 2013 21:11:15 -0400, wrote:

Note: It always amazed me that the native Americans never invented
the (transportation) wheel; if only they had the USENET, they'd have
that, and steel, and gunpowder, and ...

They did have Peyote.

Right. What use did they have for the wheel?

Can't think of one. Lokato natives got by just fine, transporting
material without wheels.

http://www.thecanadianencyclopedia.com/media/travois-2567.jpg

On Thu, 30 May 2013 08:00:28 -0700 (PDT), DD_BobK
wrote:

On May 29, 11:26*am, Oren wrote:
On Tue, 28 May 2013 19:00:15 -0400, Dan Espen
wrote:

Danny D writes:

On Tue, 28 May 2013 17:00:15 -0400, krw wrote:

Have you studied the history of the tool shed, yet?

I'm still working on the geology report for the foundation
materials. Hornblende, quartz, schist, etc.

Why don't you just put wheels on it?

I was thinking timber skids.

How about a funicular railway with a "maint car / platform"?
It could haul tools AND debris.

He just needs a team of mules and some rope / chain...

Or a sky hook.

On Thu, 30 May 2013 07:42:51 +0000 (UTC), Danny D
wrote:

On Wed, 29 May 2013 21:11:15 -0400, krw wrote:

What use did they have for the wheel?

This is OT, but it always amazed me that the American natives
didn't invent the (transportation) wheel. Seems so logical.

If they had better communication, e.g., the USENET, they'd
have the wheel, and a whole lot more.

The only thing they wouldn't have are all the diseases that
the white man traded with them.

Regardless of what your American-hating public school teachers told
you, that was a two-way street.

The USENET is so much more hygienic than actual contact!

Now you sound like a millennial.

On 30 May 2013 08:09:41 GMT, JoeBro wrote:

Danny D wrote in :

On Wed, 29 May 2013 21:11:15 -0400, krw wrote:

What use did they have for the wheel?

This is OT, but it always amazed me that the American natives
didn't invent the (transportation) wheel. Seems so logical.


Just because something is logical, doesn't mean that there is sufficient
intellegence available to take advantage of it. As an example of that see
your recent thread on moving stickes.

Intelligence has nothing to do with it. There was little need.

On 5/30/2013 10:00 AM, wrote:
On 30 May 2013 08:09:41 GMT, JoeBro wrote:

Danny D wrote in :

On Wed, 29 May 2013 21:11:15 -0400, krw wrote:

What use did they have for the wheel?

This is OT, but it always amazed me that the American natives
didn't invent the (transportation) wheel. Seems so logical.


Just because something is logical, doesn't mean that there is sufficient
intellegence available to take advantage of it. As an example of that see
your recent thread on moving stickes.

Intelligence has nothing to do with it. There was little need.


weren't they nomads to some degree? wouldn't it have been a help to
moving household goods?

On Thu, 30 May 2013 09:13:19 -0700, Oren wrote:

He just needs a team of mules

Or, I wave $100/day to anyone that stands in the
front parking lot at the Home Depot ...

On Thu, 30 May 2013 12:59:45 -0400, krw wrote:

Regardless of what your American-hating public school teachers told
you, that was a two-way street.

Indeed. Syphilis went from the Caribbean to the Old World,
while Gonorrhea followed suit in the reverse direction.

The Mexican natives should have learned, from the lessons
of the battle of Crecy, that you need to shoot the horses
first (the big llamas), and then stay away from the sharp
swords and simply use arrows to pierce the armor, or, at
least use their superior numbers to deprive the Spanish
of their supplies. Had they done *that*, they might have
still retained control of America. If they had had the USENET,
they could have asked me and I would have told them that.

On Wed, 29 May 2013 14:49:33 -0400, Dan Espen wrote:

I think you're up to the point where you need to build a stairway.

I've started stockpiling the stakes and railroad ties ...

On Thu, 30 May 2013 07:59:57 -0700, DD_BobK wrote:

downhill skiing is so much easier than uphill

This particular section is hemmed in on all sides by
forest and terrain, none of which is near a roadway.

The only roadway is the top of the hill, which is
50 feet above the debris.

So there are only two choices:
a) Leave the debris where it lies (fire hazard notwithstanding)
b) Tote the debris uphill (as hard as that is)

"Danny D" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 30 May 2013 12:59:45 -0400, krw wrote:

Regardless of what your American-hating public school teachers told
you, that was a two-way street.

Indeed. Syphilis went from the Caribbean to the Old World,
while Gonorrhea followed suit in the reverse direction.

The Mexican natives should have learned, from the lessons
of the battle of Crecy, that you need to shoot the horses
first (the big llamas), and then stay away from the sharp
swords and simply use arrows to pierce the armor, or, at
least use their superior numbers to deprive the Spanish
of their supplies. Had they done *that*, they might have
still retained control of America. If they had had the USENET,
they could have asked me and I would have told them that.




Problem is they didn't know anything about Crecy when the Conquistadors
landed.

Danny D wrote:
On Wed, 29 May 2013 21:11:15 -0400, krw wrote:

What use did they have for the wheel?

This is OT, but it always amazed me that the American natives
didn't invent the (transportation) wheel. Seems so logical.


They also did not invent a meaningful religion, a written language,
navigation or trans-ocean travel, significant medical practice, and on and
on.

Only part of the descriptor "noble savage" is correct.

Danny D writes:

On Wed, 29 May 2013 14:49:33 -0400, Dan Espen wrote:

I think you're up to the point where you need to build a stairway.

I've started stockpiling the stakes and railroad ties ...

Sounds like a plan.

--
Dan Espen

On Thu, 30 May 2013 19:28:59 -0500, Attila Iskander wrote:

Problem is they didn't know anything about Crecy
when the Conquistadors landed.

I realize that. They were half-way through their combination
of stone age/bronze age, while the Spaniards were gifted with
guile and sharp steel swords.

Yet, the numbers were so astonishingly lopsided, 200 Spaniards
to 4,000 natives at a time, that the natives had only to
learn, and they wouldn't have been defeated.

Point is that applies to the USENET, where we learn from
everyone else, or, as the somewhat mythical Sun Tzu would say,
know your backyard, and know yourself, and in a hundred
skirmishes with brush and poison oak, you will prevail.

On May 30, 4:04*pm, Danny D wrote:
On Thu, 30 May 2013 09:13:19 -0700, Oren wrote:
He just needs a team of mules

Or, I wave $100/day to anyone that stands in the
front parking lot at the Home Depot ...

And break the law?

On May 30, 4:14*pm, Danny D wrote:
On Thu, 30 May 2013 07:59:57 -0700, DD_BobK wrote:
downhill skiing is so much easier than uphill

This particular section is hemmed in on all sides by
forest and terrain, none of which is near a roadway.

The only roadway is the top of the hill, which is
50 feet above the debris.

So there are only two choices:
a) Leave the debris where it lies (fire hazard notwithstanding)
b) Tote the debris uphill (as hard as that is)

Important piece of information missing...
What prompted the desire to create the debris?

On May 30, 4:11*pm, Danny D wrote:
On Thu, 30 May 2013 12:59:45 -0400, krw wrote:
Regardless of what your American-hating public school teachers told
you, that was a two-way street.

Indeed. Syphilis went from the Caribbean to the Old World,
while Gonorrhea followed suit in the reverse direction.

The Mexican natives should have learned, from the lessons
of the battle of Crecy, that you need to shoot the horses
first (the big llamas), and then stay away from the sharp
swords and simply use arrows to pierce the armor, or, at
least use their superior numbers to deprive the Spanish
of their supplies. Had they done *that*, they might have
still retained control of America. If they had had the USENET,
they could have asked me and I would have told them that.

Don't believe the premise of Guns, Germs & Steel?
It seems as though it would have been inevitable in any case.

On May 30, 7:32*pm, Danny D wrote:
On Thu, 30 May 2013 19:28:59 -0500, Attila Iskander wrote:
Problem is they didn't know anything about Crecy
when the Conquistadors landed.

I realize that. They were half-way through their combination
of stone age/bronze age, while the Spaniards were gifted with
guile and sharp steel swords.

Yet, the numbers were so astonishingly lopsided, 200 Spaniards
to 4,000 natives at a time, that the natives had only to
learn, and they wouldn't have been defeated.

Point is that applies to the USENET, where we learn from
everyone else, or, as the somewhat mythical Sun Tzu would say,
know your backyard, and know yourself, and in a hundred
skirmishes with brush and poison oak, you will prevail.



that the natives had only to learn, and they wouldn't have been defeated..

The technological differences were too large.....