The floor covering in my kitchen is vinyl. It's past time to replace it. While
the modern trend is to put hardwood floors in kitchens, we have an elderly dog
that would destroy those floors. Therefore, we have pretty much decided to
install a "felt-backed" Linoleum-type product.

The salesman said that if our subfloor is 3/4" tongue and groove, we have to
install some wood is the same as or is similar to 1/4" plywood. Whatever the
material is, the cost is $19 per sheet at Lowes. Adding that wood doubles the
cost of the new floor. Since we are only going to have the floor for a few
years, I want to spend no more than is necessary. Unfortunately, the existing
floor has to be replaced. It's tearing.

He said that the present vinyl should be removed since it's floating. The new
vinyl will be glued. Lowes will not remove and dispose of our vinyl. We have to
do it or have it done.

Why does the new vinyl have to have the 1/4" wood addition? Can someone help me
understand what the correct process is here? Don't beat up on the sales guy as I
could have repeated some of what he said incorrectly.

On Feb 11, 12:13*pm, mcp6453 wrote:
The floor covering in my kitchen is vinyl. It's past time to replace it. While
the modern trend is to put hardwood floors in kitchens, we have an elderly dog
that would destroy those floors. Therefore, we have pretty much decided to
install a "felt-backed" Linoleum-type product.

The salesman said that if our subfloor is 3/4" tongue and groove, we have to
install some wood is the same as or is similar to 1/4" plywood. Whatever the
material is, the cost is $19 per sheet at Lowes. Adding that wood doubles the
cost of the new floor. Since we are only going to have the floor for a few
years, I want to spend no more than is necessary. Unfortunately, the existing
floor has to be replaced. It's tearing.

He said that the present vinyl should be removed since it's floating. The new
vinyl will be glued. Lowes will not remove and dispose of our vinyl. We have to
do it or have it done.

Why does the new vinyl have to have the 1/4" wood addition? Can someone help me
understand what the correct process is here? Don't beat up on the sales guy as I
could have repeated some of what he said incorrectly.

Assuming the existing subfloor is sound and flat, I don't
see why you need to install 1/4" plywood. Did you try getting
other quotes. Also, seems kind of lame that a Lowes
contractor won't remove what's there. If you can do it
yourself, you save money. But for those that can't, it
would seem they could charge extra for that and make
money instead of possibly losing the deal to someone
who will do the whole thing.

wrote in message
...
Why does the new vinyl have to have the 1/4" wood addition? Can someone
help me
understand what the correct process is here? Don't beat up on the sales
guy as I
could have repeated some of what he said incorrectly.

I am not sure how thick it is, but thinking more like 1/8 of an inch.
Anyway the floor under the vinyal has to be smooth or anything under it will
show up as lumps and bumps. They usually lay down the large sheets and fill
in the cracks between them with something so the floor will be smooth all
over. Doing it with the large sheets of wood may be the fastest way to do
this.

On Monday, February 11, 2013 1:17:06 PM UTC-5, Ralph Mowery wrote:
wrote in message ... Why does the new vinyl have to have the 1/4" wood addition? Can someone help me understand what the correct process is here? Don't beat up on the sales guy as I could have repeated some of what he said incorrectly. I am not sure how thick it is, but thinking more like 1/8 of an inch. Anyway the floor under the vinyal has to be smooth or anything under it will show up as lumps and bumps. They usually lay down the large sheets and fill in the cracks between them with something so the floor will be smooth all over. Doing it with the large sheets of wood may be the fastest way to do this.

Lowes sells these cheap installs but then gets the money back with various conditions. Their cheap carpet install requires you to buy new pad too and does not remove or dispose of the old carpet or pad. If your subfloor is in good condition then you don't need the 1/4" luan board. But you might not be able to get it installed without it. At least not from lowes.

However almost all newer homes will have 1/4" luan boards under vinyl flooring. But they generally do a sloppy job when doing the subflooring and it's usally osb, not ply or tongue and groove. You can cover a lousy subfloor with pad and carpet and it'll be fine. Not so with vinyl.

I think the luan is about $10 a sheet if you want to do it yourself.

"jamesgang" wrote in message
...
Lowes sells these cheap installs but then gets the money back with various
conditions. Their cheap carpet install requires you to buy new pad too
and does not remove or dispose of the old carpet or pad. If your subfloor
is in good condition then you don't need the 1/4" luan board. But you
might not be able to get it installed without it. At least not from
lowes.

About 2 years ago I had Lowes to install some carpet. The store here uses
independant contractors to acutally do the work. The did a much beter job
than a carpet job I had done by a place that only does floors.

The store will install carpet without the pad if you want them to. Also
will haul off the old stuff,but there may be a charge for that, just don't
recall.

They did everything for me, but I did remove the draws from the dressers the
night before and put them back in. There was an extra charge to move the
furnature. They did two rooms. Two men came out and it did not take them
very long to do the job and I was happy with the results. One room had good
carpet put in and a spare bed room had a cheaper carpet installed.


In a house previous to this one, I had some vinyl installed. They said they
would install it over the vinyl flooring I had, but due to the gouges in the
old stuff , they would not garentee it if I did not have the laun boards
installed.
The old vinyl was in bad shape so I went with the laun.

mcp6453 wrote:
The floor covering in my kitchen is vinyl. It's past time to replace
it. While the modern trend is to put hardwood floors in kitchens, we
have an elderly dog that would destroy those floors. Therefore, we
have pretty much decided to install a "felt-backed" Linoleum-type
product.

The salesman said that if our subfloor is 3/4" tongue and groove, we
have to install some wood is the same as or is similar to 1/4"
plywood. Whatever the material is, the cost is $19 per sheet at
Lowes. Adding that wood doubles the cost of the new floor. Since we
are only going to have the floor for a few years, I want to spend no
more than is necessary. Unfortunately, the existing floor has to be
replaced. It's tearing.

He said that the present vinyl should be removed since it's floating.
The new vinyl will be glued. Lowes will not remove and dispose of our
vinyl. We have to do it or have it done.

Why does the new vinyl have to have the 1/4" wood addition? Can
someone help me understand what the correct process is here? Don't
beat up on the sales guy as I could have repeated some of what he
said incorrectly.

Any chance that you could take a photo or two of the existing floor, and
peel back a section of the existing vinyl and take a photo of the floor that
is underneath? If so, you could post those here using a free website like
http://tinypic.com/ . Then it may be easier to know what your options may
be.

The salesman said that "if your subfloor is 3/4 inch tongue and groove" you
would need to put an underlayment such a luan down first before doing the
new "felt-backed" Linoleum-type flooring. That's so you would have a smooth
surface to work with and to prevent the tongue-and-groove lines from showing
through the new floor. But, if your existing flooring doesn't show those
lines, you may not have tongue-and-groove underneath.

On Mon, 11 Feb 2013 12:13:04 -0500, mcp6453 wrote:

The floor covering in my kitchen is vinyl. It's past time to replace it. While
the modern trend is to put hardwood floors in kitchens, we have an elderly dog
that would destroy those floors. Therefore, we have pretty much decided to
install a "felt-backed" Linoleum-type product.

The salesman said that if our subfloor is 3/4" tongue and groove, we have to
install some wood is the same as or is similar to 1/4" plywood. Whatever the
material is, the cost is $19 per sheet at Lowes. Adding that wood doubles the
cost of the new floor. Since we are only going to have the floor for a few
years, I want to spend no more than is necessary. Unfortunately, the existing
floor has to be replaced. It's tearing.

He said that the present vinyl should be removed since it's floating. The new
vinyl will be glued. Lowes will not remove and dispose of our vinyl. We have to
do it or have it done.

Why does the new vinyl have to have the 1/4" wood addition? Can someone help me
understand what the correct process is here? Don't beat up on the sales guy as I
could have repeated some of what he said incorrectly.

The 1/4 luan is used when the subfloor is in a conditions that will
allow dimples. cracks, etc., to show up later. A good idea, depending
on what you have.

There are some products that do not require using glue. Instead they
have double sided tape around the edges. The floor needs a good
cleaning (old clue on concrete). Even after I removed vinyl and
scarped the concrete the installer removed even more debris. I thought
I did a great job.

Be careful using Lowes/HD. They do get orders mixed up. The tape
material I mention above is an example. The RE Agent ordered "glue
down" vinyl, but the installer brought "tape down". It was to late to
change the order because of deadlines. The kitchen turned out great,
well installed and such. Given that, some installers are not all
equal when dealing with Lowes/HD.

2 cents FWIW

On Mon, 11 Feb 2013 12:13:04 -0500, mcp6453 wrote:

The floor covering in my kitchen is vinyl. It's past time to replace it. While
the modern trend is to put hardwood floors in kitchens, we have an elderly dog
that would destroy those floors. Therefore, we have pretty much decided to
install a "felt-backed" Linoleum-type product.

The salesman said that if our subfloor is 3/4" tongue and groove, we have to
install some wood is the same as or is similar to 1/4" plywood. Whatever the
material is, the cost is $19 per sheet at Lowes. Adding that wood doubles the
cost of the new floor. Since we are only going to have the floor for a few
years, I want to spend no more than is necessary. Unfortunately, the existing
floor has to be replaced. It's tearing.

He said that the present vinyl should be removed since it's floating. The new
vinyl will be glued. Lowes will not remove and dispose of our vinyl. We have to
do it or have it done.

Why does the new vinyl have to have the 1/4" wood addition? Can someone help me
understand what the correct process is here? Don't beat up on the sales guy as I
could have repeated some of what he said incorrectly.

Any irregularity of the floor under the vinyl will eventually show
through. May not be the case with some thick vinyl, but those are
expensive. If the tongue and groove is tight with no ridges or gaps
you don't need anything else under the vinyl.
I've done 2 of my kitchens with sheet vinyl. Mid-range price, which
is pretty thin. The floors were tongue and groove but with minor gaps
and ridges.
I put this down first, using 8 flooring nails (spiral) per sheet.
Sheets are just butted against one another.
http://www.menards.com/main/building.../p-1470088.htm
Years ago and it was cheaper, but it was 1/4" hardboard. Not wood.
I'm not a "professional" vinyl installer, but I'll tell you right now
IMO gluing down sheet seamless vinyl is just crazy - unless you need
seams.
I used 12' rolls, and no seams. If the installer uses heat to connect
seams, you still don't need glue.
If you have a flat floor the vinyl ain't going anywhere and will lay
flat on flat with no air space between. You pull the quarter round or
cove around the room perimeter, cut the vinyl in leaving 1/4-3/8'
space for expansion. The vinyl should be completely flat a few hours
after laying it down. That's how it worked for me, and the vinyl was
fine many years later.
I will say the mid and lower range vinyls nick easily if you drop
something sharp, like a knife. A few nicks aren't very noticeable if
they're in a darker part of the pattern, and didn't detract from
appearance. The price difference can make it worth using.
OTOH, the vinyl floor the previous owners put in my current house is a
thick vinyl.
Seems too thick, hard and tough to roll well. Maybe it's rolled less
and in larger diameter. Not like the cheaper stuff I used.
It's probably at least 20-25 years old and shows very little nicking
I can't recommend any brand of vinyl. I went with one of major
companies.
That's about all I know. It's pretty dated info, but I don't think
vinyl flooring has changed much.

On Mon, 11 Feb 2013 12:13:04 -0500, mcp6453 wrote:




Why does the new vinyl have to have the 1/4" wood addition? Can someone help me
understand what the correct process is here? Don't beat up on the sales guy as I
could have repeated some of what he said incorrectly.

He may be right. That is a common practice to get a smooth base for
the final floor. OTOH, I'd never go to Lowe's or HD for flooring or
appliances. I'd bet you have a good reputable local dealer that will
do a better job at a very competitive price. They will also quite the
entire job, not just the new install.

The big box stores used the lowest priced contractor. Some good, many
bad.

mcp6453 wrote:

The floor covering in my kitchen is vinyl. It's past time to replace it. While
the modern trend is to put hardwood floors in kitchens, we have an elderly dog
that would destroy those floors. Therefore, we have pretty much decided to
install a "felt-backed" Linoleum-type product.

The salesman said that if our subfloor is 3/4" tongue and groove, we have to
install some wood is the same as or is similar to 1/4" plywood.

you have an advantage over the salesman-- you can see the vinyl floor
that sat over that floor. If you can see the lines of the subfloor
underneath that---- and you don't like that look. Then you need a
subfloor.

Otherwise- the cushioned vinyl floor of today is more forging than
that of 20 yrs ago. And besides, it is [can be] cheap.

If it is just for a few years [famous last words- like my basement
floor I put in in 1990 or so] slap a $200 floor in there & it will
look great for at least a couple years-- and disappear into the
landscape after that.


He said that the present vinyl should be removed since it's floating. The new
vinyl will be glued. Lowes will not remove and dispose of our vinyl. We have to
do it or have it done.

If by 'floating'- you have a floor that is only glued at the edges,
I'd *consider* removing it. not a huge job. If it is unattached at
the edges-- or stapled- I'd get rid of it.

Are you talking to the guy on the floor at Lowes- or a guy who came to
your house to give you an estimate?

Jim

According to your thread i want to say I am not sure how thick it is, but thinking more like 1/8 of an inch.
Anyway the floor under the vinyl has to be smooth or anything under it will
show up as lumps and bumps.I think this is much better for you......