Awl --

From a site I found (and mentioned, iirc, by a poster in the previous
thread), good info.

http://www.waterheaterrescue.com/pag...r-heaters.html

Here's a neat alternative to magnesium anodes:
http://www.waterheaterrescue.com/pag...or-Combos.html

Is this really effectve?
This seems like a perty easy diy electronic project. Could a 12 V battery
charger be used? what would be the connection points?
Not exactly cheap, either, but anodes for combo-ports (below) are not cheap
either, up to $160 from Sears.

Note that there are basically two configurations to water heater anodes:
water heaters with a *separate* port, in which you screw the anode, and
combo ports (like mine), which accept the anode AND hw connection (more
expensive).

I think the separate port (3 ports total) is a much better design, makes
replacing anodes much cheaper, easier. Even the powered anode is cheaper
for this separate port.
--
EA

On Jan 27, 2:48*pm, "Existential Angst" wrote:
Awl --

From a site I found (and mentioned, iirc, by a poster in the previous
thread), good info.

http://www.waterheaterrescue.com/pag.../Longevity/wha...

Here's a neat alternative to magnesium anodes:http://www.waterheaterrescue.com/pag.../OrderPages/XC...

Is this really effectve?
This seems like a perty easy diy electronic project. *Could a 12 V battery
charger be used? *what would be the connection points?
Not exactly cheap, either, but anodes for combo-ports (below) are not cheap
either, up to $160 from Sears.

Note that there are basically two configurations to water heater anodes:
water heaters with a *separate* port, in which you screw the anode, and
combo ports (like mine), which accept the anode AND hw connection (more
expensive).

I think the separate port (3 ports total) is a much better design, makes
replacing anodes much cheaper, easier. *Even the powered anode is cheaper
for this separate port.
--
EA

the navy uses electronic control of ships to prevent excess
rusting....

but at some point the cost of stuff to make a water heater last longer
will exceed the cost of a brand new unit....

and other things may fail like the main gas valve.

for me its not worth the screwing around to extend the life of such a
cheap device that costs less than 50 bucks a year to buy

"bob haller" wrote in message
...
On Jan 27, 2:48 pm, "Existential Angst" wrote:
Awl --

From a site I found (and mentioned, iirc, by a poster in the previous
thread), good info.

http://www.waterheaterrescue.com/pag.../Longevity/wha...

Here's a neat alternative to magnesium
anodes:http://www.waterheaterrescue.com/pag.../OrderPages/XC...

Is this really effectve?
This seems like a perty easy diy electronic project. Could a 12 V battery
charger be used? what would be the connection points?
Not exactly cheap, either, but anodes for combo-ports (below) are not
cheap
either, up to $160 from Sears.

Note that there are basically two configurations to water heater anodes:
water heaters with a *separate* port, in which you screw the anode, and
combo ports (like mine), which accept the anode AND hw connection (more
expensive).

I think the separate port (3 ports total) is a much better design, makes
replacing anodes much cheaper, easier. Even the powered anode is cheaper
for this separate port.
--
EA

the navy uses electronic control of ships to prevent excess
rusting....

but at some point the cost of stuff to make a water heater last longer
will exceed the cost of a brand new unit....

and other things may fail like the main gas valve.

for me its not worth the screwing around to extend the life of such a
cheap device that costs less than 50 bucks a year to buy
================================================== =======

That's a useful perspective on the issue. This powered anode deal would
have to extend the heater life 5 years to pay for itself.

Apparently not a, uh, hot item.... a search reveals no units.

Here's a Kenmore with a built-in powered anode:
http://www.searsoutlet.com/d/product_details.jsp?pid=69223&mode=buyUsedOnly&sid =IDx20110411x000008&ci_sku=N99169223&ci_gpa=pla&ci _kw={keyword}

Also solid-state controls, fan (presumably exhaust -- whazzup wit dat???),
electronic ignition.
The reviews were inneresting, some locales really hammer the home-moaner,
installation/permit wise.
Even Trader4 would proly agree, many of these permits are off the wall. One
reviewer's initial $225 installation charge (which is just pop-on, pop-off
hoses) wound up being $1,000, for an hour's extra work.... holy ****....

Must be 'spensive, as you can't even get a firm price on this unit. I'd get
one, if they gave me lifetime service for the fukn guar-own-teed-to-fail
electronics.... sheesh....
Plus, iffin yer juice goes off, no hw.... altho I think back-up generators,
once exotic, will proly be *expected* in a home sale.
--
EA

On Jan 27, 3:58*pm, "Existential Angst" wrote:
"bob haller" wrote in message

...
On Jan 27, 2:48 pm, "Existential Angst" wrote:





Awl --

From a site I found (and mentioned, iirc, by a poster in the previous
thread), good info.

http://www.waterheaterrescue.com/pag.../Longevity/wha...

Here's a neat alternative to magnesium
anodes:http://www.waterheaterrescue.com/pag.../OrderPages/XC...

Is this really effectve?
This seems like a perty easy diy electronic project. Could a 12 V battery
charger be used? what would be the connection points?
Not exactly cheap, either, but anodes for combo-ports (below) are not
cheap
either, up to $160 from Sears.

Note that there are basically two configurations to water heater anodes:
water heaters with a *separate* port, in which you screw the anode, and
combo ports (like mine), which accept the anode AND hw connection (more
expensive).

I think the separate port (3 ports total) is a much better design, makes
replacing anodes much cheaper, easier. Even the powered anode is cheaper
for this separate port.
--
EA

the navy uses electronic control of ships to prevent excess
rusting....

but at some point the cost of stuff to make a water heater last longer
will exceed the cost of a brand new unit....

and other things may fail like the main gas valve.

for me its not worth the screwing around to extend the life of such a
cheap device that costs less than 50 bucks a year to buy
================================================== =======

That's a useful perspective on the issue. *This powered anode deal would
have to extend the heater life 5 years to pay for itself.

Apparently not a, uh, hot item.... *a search reveals no units.

Here's a Kenmore with a built-in powered anode:http://www.searsoutlet.com/d/product_details.jsp?pid=69223&mode=buyUs...{keywor d}

Also solid-state controls, fan (presumably exhaust -- whazzup wit dat???),
electronic ignition.
The reviews were inneresting, some locales really hammer the home-moaner,
installation/permit wise.
Even Trader4 would proly agree, many of these permits are off the wall. *One
reviewer's initial $225 installation charge (which is just pop-on, pop-off
hoses) wound up being $1,000, for an hour's extra work.... * holy ****.....

Must be 'spensive, as you can't even get a firm price on this unit. *I'd get
one, if they gave me lifetime service for the fukn guar-own-teed-to-fail
electronics.... *sheesh....
Plus, iffin yer juice goes off, no hw.... *altho I think back-up generators,
once exotic, will proly be *expected* in a home sale.
--
EA- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

One thing I would agree on is that you have an amazing penchant
for turning something simple into something extraordinarily complex.
My water heater goes every 10 to 15 years and I go buy another one.
You take a journey down active corrosion protection system lala land.
Now we're talking about Navy ship corrosion protection and $1000
installation charges. Good grief. Just go down to HD and buy a new
one. Oh, wait a minute. You were recently bitching about them too,
weren't you? That corrupt, overcharging HD place that you hate
so much, does feature renting you a truck for a mere $20 so that
you can get your new water heater home. And another feature is
HD is open right now. So, maybe you should stop blowing smoke
out your ass and go over there.

wrote in message
...
On Jan 27, 3:58 pm, "Existential Angst" wrote:
"bob haller" wrote in message

...
On Jan 27, 2:48 pm, "Existential Angst" wrote:





Awl --

From a site I found (and mentioned, iirc, by a poster in the previous
thread), good info.

http://www.waterheaterrescue.com/pag.../Longevity/wha...

Here's a neat alternative to magnesium
anodes:http://www.waterheaterrescue.com/pag.../OrderPages/XC...

Is this really effectve?
This seems like a perty easy diy electronic project. Could a 12 V
battery
charger be used? what would be the connection points?
Not exactly cheap, either, but anodes for combo-ports (below) are not
cheap
either, up to $160 from Sears.

Note that there are basically two configurations to water heater anodes:
water heaters with a *separate* port, in which you screw the anode, and
combo ports (like mine), which accept the anode AND hw connection (more
expensive).

I think the separate port (3 ports total) is a much better design, makes
replacing anodes much cheaper, easier. Even the powered anode is cheaper
for this separate port.
--
EA

the navy uses electronic control of ships to prevent excess
rusting....

but at some point the cost of stuff to make a water heater last longer
will exceed the cost of a brand new unit....

and other things may fail like the main gas valve.

for me its not worth the screwing around to extend the life of such a
cheap device that costs less than 50 bucks a year to buy
================================================== =======

That's a useful perspective on the issue. This powered anode deal would
have to extend the heater life 5 years to pay for itself.

Apparently not a, uh, hot item.... a search reveals no units.

Here's a Kenmore with a built-in powered
anode:http://www.searsoutlet.com/d/product_details.jsp?pid=69223&mode=buyUs...{keywor d}

Also solid-state controls, fan (presumably exhaust -- whazzup wit dat???),
electronic ignition.
The reviews were inneresting, some locales really hammer the home-moaner,
installation/permit wise.
Even Trader4 would proly agree, many of these permits are off the wall.
One
reviewer's initial $225 installation charge (which is just pop-on, pop-off
hoses) wound up being $1,000, for an hour's extra work.... holy ****....

Must be 'spensive, as you can't even get a firm price on this unit. I'd
get
one, if they gave me lifetime service for the fukn guar-own-teed-to-fail
electronics.... sheesh....
Plus, iffin yer juice goes off, no hw.... altho I think back-up
generators,
once exotic, will proly be *expected* in a home sale.
--
EA- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

One thing I would agree on is that you have an amazing penchant
for turning something simple into something extraordinarily complex.
My water heater goes every 10 to 15 years and I go buy another one.
You take a journey down active corrosion protection system lala land.
Now we're talking about Navy ship corrosion protection and $1000
installation charges. Good grief. Just go down to HD and buy a new
one. Oh, wait a minute. You were recently bitching about them too,
weren't you? That corrupt, overcharging HD place that you hate
so much, does feature renting you a truck for a mere $20 so that
you can get your new water heater home. And another feature is
HD is open right now. So, maybe you should stop blowing smoke
out your ass and go over there.
=================================================

You don't have too many friends, do you....
You and the wife sleep in sep. rooms??

Bob Haller already made your hysterical points, very cogently.
Just exploring ideas, and No, we're NOT talking about navy ship corrosion
systems....
What did you do, BUY your economics degree??
--
EA

On Sun, 27 Jan 2013 14:25:39 -0800 (PST), "
wrote:

On Jan 27, 3:58*pm, "Existential Angst" wrote:
"bob haller" wrote in message

...
On Jan 27, 2:48 pm, "Existential Angst" wrote:





Awl --

From a site I found (and mentioned, iirc, by a poster in the previous
thread), good info.

http://www.waterheaterrescue.com/pag.../Longevity/wha...

Here's a neat alternative to magnesium
anodes:http://www.waterheaterrescue.com/pag.../OrderPages/XC...

Is this really effectve?
This seems like a perty easy diy electronic project. Could a 12 V battery
charger be used? what would be the connection points?
Not exactly cheap, either, but anodes for combo-ports (below) are not
cheap
either, up to $160 from Sears.

Note that there are basically two configurations to water heater anodes:
water heaters with a *separate* port, in which you screw the anode, and
combo ports (like mine), which accept the anode AND hw connection (more
expensive).

I think the separate port (3 ports total) is a much better design, makes
replacing anodes much cheaper, easier. Even the powered anode is cheaper
for this separate port.
--
EA

the navy uses electronic control of ships to prevent excess
rusting....

but at some point the cost of stuff to make a water heater last longer
will exceed the cost of a brand new unit....

and other things may fail like the main gas valve.

for me its not worth the screwing around to extend the life of such a
cheap device that costs less than 50 bucks a year to buy
================================================== =======

That's a useful perspective on the issue. *This powered anode deal would
have to extend the heater life 5 years to pay for itself.

Apparently not a, uh, hot item.... *a search reveals no units.

Here's a Kenmore with a built-in powered anode:http://www.searsoutlet.com/d/product_details.jsp?pid=69223&mode=buyUs...{keywor d}

Also solid-state controls, fan (presumably exhaust -- whazzup wit dat???),
electronic ignition.
The reviews were inneresting, some locales really hammer the home-moaner,
installation/permit wise.
Even Trader4 would proly agree, many of these permits are off the wall. *One
reviewer's initial $225 installation charge (which is just pop-on, pop-off
hoses) wound up being $1,000, for an hour's extra work.... * holy ****....

Must be 'spensive, as you can't even get a firm price on this unit. *I'd get
one, if they gave me lifetime service for the fukn guar-own-teed-to-fail
electronics.... *sheesh....
Plus, iffin yer juice goes off, no hw.... *altho I think back-up generators,
once exotic, will proly be *expected* in a home sale.
--
EA- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

One thing I would agree on is that you have an amazing penchant
for turning something simple into something extraordinarily complex.
My water heater goes every 10 to 15 years and I go buy another one.
You take a journey down active corrosion protection system lala land.
Now we're talking about Navy ship corrosion protection and $1000
installation charges. Good grief. Just go down to HD and buy a new
one. Oh, wait a minute. You were recently bitching about them too,
weren't you? That corrupt, overcharging HD place that you hate
so much, does feature renting you a truck for a mere $20 so that
you can get your new water heater home. And another feature is
HD is open right now. So, maybe you should stop blowing smoke
out your ass and go over there.
Actually there ARE electronic anode replacements available for water
heaters. If they are effective is another question. If they are cost
effective is another one.

On Jan 27, 1:58*pm, "Existential Angst" wrote:
"bob haller" wrote in message

...
On Jan 27, 2:48 pm, "Existential Angst" wrote:





Awl --

From a site I found (and mentioned, iirc, by a poster in the previous
thread), good info.

http://www.waterheaterrescue.com/pag.../Longevity/wha...

Here's a neat alternative to magnesium
anodes:http://www.waterheaterrescue.com/pag.../OrderPages/XC...

Is this really effectve?
This seems like a perty easy diy electronic project. Could a 12 V battery
charger be used? what would be the connection points?
Not exactly cheap, either, but anodes for combo-ports (below) are not
cheap
either, up to $160 from Sears.

Note that there are basically two configurations to water heater anodes:
water heaters with a *separate* port, in which you screw the anode, and
combo ports (like mine), which accept the anode AND hw connection (more
expensive).

I think the separate port (3 ports total) is a much better design, makes
replacing anodes much cheaper, easier. Even the powered anode is cheaper
for this separate port.
--
EA

the navy uses electronic control of ships to prevent excess
rusting....

but at some point the cost of stuff to make a water heater last longer
will exceed the cost of a brand new unit....

and other things may fail like the main gas valve.

for me its not worth the screwing around to extend the life of such a
cheap device that costs less than 50 bucks a year to buy
================================================== =======

That's a useful perspective on the issue. *This powered anode deal would
have to extend the heater life 5 years to pay for itself.

Apparently not a, uh, hot item.... *a search reveals no units.

Here's a Kenmore with a built-in powered anode:http://www.searsoutlet.com/d/product_details.jsp?pid=69223&mode=buyUs...{keywor d}

Also solid-state controls, fan (presumably exhaust -- whazzup wit dat???),
electronic ignition.
The reviews were inneresting, some locales really hammer the home-moaner,
installation/permit wise.
Even Trader4 would proly agree, many of these permits are off the wall. *One
reviewer's initial $225 installation charge (which is just pop-on, pop-off
hoses) wound up being $1,000, for an hour's extra work.... * holy ****.....

Must be 'spensive, as you can't even get a firm price on this unit. *I'd get
one, if they gave me lifetime service for the fukn guar-own-teed-to-fail
electronics.... *sheesh....
Plus, iffin yer juice goes off, no hw.... *altho I think back-up generators,
once exotic, will proly be *expected* in a home sale.
--
EA- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Yeah, the folks bought into that all-singing, all-dancing unit, but
they really didn't have much choice. The original old-style unit
exhausted into the chimney with the furnace. They got one of those
fancy condensing furnaces that didn't have a chimney and the old brick
item was taken down and blocked(was in very bad shape). So what to
do? Get the fancy unit that exhausts through a PVC pipe through the
basement wall. Doesn't need a draft from a chimney, has it's own
fans. So instead of a soft whump when the thing fired off in the
basement, they got this whining fan for a minute or so while the thing
cleared any possible gas out of the flame chamber, then another whine
while the burner fan whipped up and then finally it lit off. Really
noisy in the middle of the night. So, no hot water during a power
outage, the one place where gas appliances shine. They sell these
things on the basis that the pilot light on the old-style units is
burning money, but you could probably run a pilot light for a hundred
years on the price difference. And the tank is going to go in 10-15
years anyway, that's not been improved at all. But it's
"computerized" so that's OK.

Stan

On Jan 27, 9:08*pm, wrote:
On Sun, 27 Jan 2013 14:25:39 -0800 (PST), "





wrote:
On Jan 27, 3:58*pm, "Existential Angst" wrote:
"bob haller" wrote in message

....
On Jan 27, 2:48 pm, "Existential Angst" wrote:

Awl --

From a site I found (and mentioned, iirc, by a poster in the previous
thread), good info.

http://www.waterheaterrescue.com/pag.../Longevity/wha....

Here's a neat alternative to magnesium
anodes:http://www.waterheaterrescue.com/pag.../OrderPages/XC...

Is this really effectve?
This seems like a perty easy diy electronic project. Could a 12 V battery
charger be used? what would be the connection points?
Not exactly cheap, either, but anodes for combo-ports (below) are not
cheap
either, up to $160 from Sears.

Note that there are basically two configurations to water heater anodes:
water heaters with a *separate* port, in which you screw the anode, and
combo ports (like mine), which accept the anode AND hw connection (more
expensive).

I think the separate port (3 ports total) is a much better design, makes
replacing anodes much cheaper, easier. Even the powered anode is cheaper
for this separate port.
--
EA

the navy uses electronic control of ships to prevent excess
rusting....

but at some point the cost of stuff to make a water heater last longer
will exceed the cost of a brand new unit....

and other things may fail like the main gas valve.

for me its not worth the screwing around to extend the life of such a
cheap device that costs less than 50 bucks a year to buy
================================================== =======

That's a useful perspective on the issue. *This powered anode deal would
have to extend the heater life 5 years to pay for itself.

Apparently not a, uh, hot item.... *a search reveals no units.

Here's a Kenmore with a built-in powered anode:http://www.searsoutlet.com/d/product_details.jsp?pid=69223&mode=buyUs...{keywor d}

Also solid-state controls, fan (presumably exhaust -- whazzup wit dat???),
electronic ignition.
The reviews were inneresting, some locales really hammer the home-moaner,
installation/permit wise.
Even Trader4 would proly agree, many of these permits are off the wall.. *One
reviewer's initial $225 installation charge (which is just pop-on, pop-off
hoses) wound up being $1,000, for an hour's extra work.... * holy ****....

Must be 'spensive, as you can't even get a firm price on this unit. *I'd get
one, if they gave me lifetime service for the fukn guar-own-teed-to-fail
electronics.... *sheesh....
Plus, iffin yer juice goes off, no hw.... *altho I think back-up generators,
once exotic, will proly be *expected* in a home sale.
--
EA- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

One thing I would agree on is that you have an amazing penchant
for turning something simple into something extraordinarily complex.
My water heater goes every 10 to 15 years and *I go buy another one.
You take a journey down active corrosion protection system lala land.
Now we're talking about Navy ship corrosion protection and $1000
installation charges. *Good grief. *Just go down to HD and buy a new
one. * Oh, wait a minute. *You were recently bitching about them too,
weren't you? *That corrupt, overcharging HD place that you hate
so much, does feature renting you a truck for a mere $20 so that
you can get your new water heater home. *And another feature is
HD is open right now. *So, maybe you should stop blowing smoke
out your ass and go over there.

* Actually there ARE electronic anode replacements available for water
heaters. If they are effective is another question. If they are cost
effective is another one.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Wow, you figured that out? The link to exactly that was
provided by EA in his original post where he posed the question.
BTW, you claimed to have me killfiled, yet here you are,
replying to my post. I guess you don't know how that works
either.

On Jan 28, 7:40*am, Stanley Schaefer wrote:
On Jan 27, 1:58*pm, "Existential Angst" wrote:





"bob haller" wrote in message

...
On Jan 27, 2:48 pm, "Existential Angst" wrote:

Awl --

From a site I found (and mentioned, iirc, by a poster in the previous
thread), good info.

http://www.waterheaterrescue.com/pag.../Longevity/wha....

Here's a neat alternative to magnesium
anodes:http://www.waterheaterrescue.com/pag.../OrderPages/XC...

Is this really effectve?
This seems like a perty easy diy electronic project. Could a 12 V battery
charger be used? what would be the connection points?
Not exactly cheap, either, but anodes for combo-ports (below) are not
cheap
either, up to $160 from Sears.

Note that there are basically two configurations to water heater anodes:
water heaters with a *separate* port, in which you screw the anode, and
combo ports (like mine), which accept the anode AND hw connection (more
expensive).

I think the separate port (3 ports total) is a much better design, makes
replacing anodes much cheaper, easier. Even the powered anode is cheaper
for this separate port.
--
EA

the navy uses electronic control of ships to prevent excess
rusting....

but at some point the cost of stuff to make a water heater last longer
will exceed the cost of a brand new unit....

and other things may fail like the main gas valve.

for me its not worth the screwing around to extend the life of such a
cheap device that costs less than 50 bucks a year to buy
================================================== =======

That's a useful perspective on the issue. *This powered anode deal would
have to extend the heater life 5 years to pay for itself.

Apparently not a, uh, hot item.... *a search reveals no units.

Here's a Kenmore with a built-in powered anode:http://www.searsoutlet.com/d/product_details.jsp?pid=69223&mode=buyUs...{keywor d}

Also solid-state controls, fan (presumably exhaust -- whazzup wit dat???),
electronic ignition.
The reviews were inneresting, some locales really hammer the home-moaner,
installation/permit wise.
Even Trader4 would proly agree, many of these permits are off the wall. *One
reviewer's initial $225 installation charge (which is just pop-on, pop-off
hoses) wound up being $1,000, for an hour's extra work.... * holy ****....

Must be 'spensive, as you can't even get a firm price on this unit. *I'd get
one, if they gave me lifetime service for the fukn guar-own-teed-to-fail
electronics.... *sheesh....
Plus, iffin yer juice goes off, no hw.... *altho I think back-up generators,
once exotic, will proly be *expected* in a home sale.
--
EA- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Yeah, the folks bought into that all-singing, all-dancing unit, but
they really didn't have much choice. *The original old-style unit
exhausted into the chimney with the furnace. *They got one of those
fancy condensing furnaces that didn't have a chimney and the old brick
item was taken down and blocked(was in very bad shape). *So what to
do? *Get the fancy unit that exhausts through a PVC pipe through the
basement wall. *Doesn't need a draft from a chimney, has it's own
fans. *So instead of a soft whump when the thing fired off in the
basement, they got this whining fan for a minute or so while the thing
cleared any possible gas out of the flame chamber, then another whine
while the burner fan whipped up and then finally it lit off. *Really
noisy in the middle of the night. *So, no hot water during a power
outage, the one place where gas appliances shine. *They sell these
things on the basis that the pilot light on the old-style units is
burning money, but you could probably run a pilot light for a hundred
years on the price difference. *And the tank is going to go in 10-15
years anyway, that's not been improved at all. *But it's
"computerized" so that's OK.

Stan- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I think in addition to saving on the pilot light gas, which I agree
is small, they are also more energy efficient because of the
fact that they rely on a blower to move air through them.
With the blower off, a lot less air moves through than with
a traditional chimney vented unit. Less air moving through
the core means less heat loss.

But I agree with your overall analysis. I think if you look at
the price difference, it takes quite a long time to recover
the upfront money. And if you have to run new venting, that
also drives up the install cost, at least for the first time.
And then you need an outlet close enough to plug it in,
which could mean installing that too. With a conventional
tannk, my whole gas bill in summer is less than $20,
which includes all the water heated, plus some gas grilling.
So, the energy loss of the tank can't be all that much.
You might never recover the money.

wrote in message
...
On Jan 28, 7:40 am, Stanley Schaefer wrote:
On Jan 27, 1:58 pm, "Existential Angst" wrote:





"bob haller" wrote in message

...
On Jan 27, 2:48 pm, "Existential Angst" wrote:

Awl --

From a site I found (and mentioned, iirc, by a poster in the previous
thread), good info.

http://www.waterheaterrescue.com/pag.../Longevity/wha...

Here's a neat alternative to magnesium
anodes:http://www.waterheaterrescue.com/pag.../OrderPages/XC...

Is this really effectve?
This seems like a perty easy diy electronic project. Could a 12 V
battery
charger be used? what would be the connection points?
Not exactly cheap, either, but anodes for combo-ports (below) are not
cheap
either, up to $160 from Sears.

Note that there are basically two configurations to water heater
anodes:
water heaters with a *separate* port, in which you screw the anode,
and
combo ports (like mine), which accept the anode AND hw connection
(more
expensive).

I think the separate port (3 ports total) is a much better design,
makes
replacing anodes much cheaper, easier. Even the powered anode is
cheaper
for this separate port.
--
EA

the navy uses electronic control of ships to prevent excess
rusting....

but at some point the cost of stuff to make a water heater last longer
will exceed the cost of a brand new unit....

and other things may fail like the main gas valve.

for me its not worth the screwing around to extend the life of such a
cheap device that costs less than 50 bucks a year to buy
================================================== =======

That's a useful perspective on the issue. This powered anode deal would
have to extend the heater life 5 years to pay for itself.

Apparently not a, uh, hot item.... a search reveals no units.

Here's a Kenmore with a built-in powered
anode:http://www.searsoutlet.com/d/product_details.jsp?pid=69223&mode=buyUs...{keywor d}

Also solid-state controls, fan (presumably exhaust -- whazzup wit
dat???),
electronic ignition.
The reviews were inneresting, some locales really hammer the
home-moaner,
installation/permit wise.
Even Trader4 would proly agree, many of these permits are off the wall.
One
reviewer's initial $225 installation charge (which is just pop-on,
pop-off
hoses) wound up being $1,000, for an hour's extra work.... holy ****....

Must be 'spensive, as you can't even get a firm price on this unit. I'd
get
one, if they gave me lifetime service for the fukn guar-own-teed-to-fail
electronics.... sheesh....
Plus, iffin yer juice goes off, no hw.... altho I think back-up
generators,
once exotic, will proly be *expected* in a home sale.
--
EA- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Yeah, the folks bought into that all-singing, all-dancing unit, but
they really didn't have much choice. The original old-style unit
exhausted into the chimney with the furnace. They got one of those
fancy condensing furnaces that didn't have a chimney and the old brick
item was taken down and blocked(was in very bad shape). So what to
do? Get the fancy unit that exhausts through a PVC pipe through the
basement wall. Doesn't need a draft from a chimney, has it's own
fans. So instead of a soft whump when the thing fired off in the
basement, they got this whining fan for a minute or so while the thing
cleared any possible gas out of the flame chamber, then another whine
while the burner fan whipped up and then finally it lit off. Really
noisy in the middle of the night. So, no hot water during a power
outage, the one place where gas appliances shine. They sell these
things on the basis that the pilot light on the old-style units is
burning money, but you could probably run a pilot light for a hundred
years on the price difference. And the tank is going to go in 10-15
years anyway, that's not been improved at all. But it's
"computerized" so that's OK.

Stan- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I think in addition to saving on the pilot light gas, which I agree
is small, they are also more energy efficient because of the
fact that they rely on a blower to move air through them.
With the blower off, a lot less air moves through than with
a traditional chimney vented unit. Less air moving through
the core means less heat loss.

But I agree with your overall analysis. I think if you look at
the price difference, it takes quite a long time to recover
the upfront money. And if you have to run new venting, that
also drives up the install cost, at least for the first time.
And then you need an outlet close enough to plug it in,
which could mean installing that too. With a conventional
tannk, my whole gas bill in summer is less than $20,
which includes all the water heated, plus some gas grilling.
So, the energy loss of the tank can't be all that much.
You might never recover the money.
================================================== =====

You are almost guar-own-teed to never recover the $ diff.
How much are those things, anyway?

Dood, you ****ed off clare in CA as well?? How did you do that??
Oh, Oh, Oh, I know!!!!! By being a prick!!!!!
Clare is one of the nicer more knowledgeable people around here.
And, hey, didn't YOU once promise to killfile Moi???
--
EA

On Jan 28, 12:34*pm, "Existential Angst" wrote:
wrote in message

...
On Jan 28, 7:40 am, Stanley Schaefer wrote:





On Jan 27, 1:58 pm, "Existential Angst" wrote:

"bob haller" wrote in message

....
On Jan 27, 2:48 pm, "Existential Angst" wrote:

Awl --

From a site I found (and mentioned, iirc, by a poster in the previous
thread), good info.

http://www.waterheaterrescue.com/pag.../Longevity/wha...

Here's a neat alternative to magnesium
anodes:http://www.waterheaterrescue.com/pag.../OrderPages/XC...

Is this really effectve?
This seems like a perty easy diy electronic project. Could a 12 V
battery
charger be used? what would be the connection points?
Not exactly cheap, either, but anodes for combo-ports (below) are not
cheap
either, up to $160 from Sears.

Note that there are basically two configurations to water heater
anodes:
water heaters with a *separate* port, in which you screw the anode,
and
combo ports (like mine), which accept the anode AND hw connection
(more
expensive).

I think the separate port (3 ports total) is a much better design,
makes
replacing anodes much cheaper, easier. Even the powered anode is
cheaper
for this separate port.
--
EA

the navy uses electronic control of ships to prevent excess
rusting....

but at some point the cost of stuff to make a water heater last longer
will exceed the cost of a brand new unit....

and other things may fail like the main gas valve.

for me its not worth the screwing around to extend the life of such a
cheap device that costs less than 50 bucks a year to buy
================================================== =======

That's a useful perspective on the issue. This powered anode deal would
have to extend the heater life 5 years to pay for itself.

Apparently not a, uh, hot item.... a search reveals no units.

Here's a Kenmore with a built-in powered
anode:http://www.searsoutlet.com/d/product_details.jsp?pid=69223&mode=buyUs...{keywor d}

Also solid-state controls, fan (presumably exhaust -- whazzup wit
dat???),
electronic ignition.
The reviews were inneresting, some locales really hammer the
home-moaner,
installation/permit wise.
Even Trader4 would proly agree, many of these permits are off the wall.
One
reviewer's initial $225 installation charge (which is just pop-on,
pop-off
hoses) wound up being $1,000, for an hour's extra work.... holy ****.....

Must be 'spensive, as you can't even get a firm price on this unit. I'd
get
one, if they gave me lifetime service for the fukn guar-own-teed-to-fail
electronics.... sheesh....
Plus, iffin yer juice goes off, no hw.... altho I think back-up
generators,
once exotic, will proly be *expected* in a home sale.
--
EA- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Yeah, the folks bought into that all-singing, all-dancing unit, but
they really didn't have much choice. The original old-style unit
exhausted into the chimney with the furnace. They got one of those
fancy condensing furnaces that didn't have a chimney and the old brick
item was taken down and blocked(was in very bad shape). So what to
do? Get the fancy unit that exhausts through a PVC pipe through the
basement wall. Doesn't need a draft from a chimney, has it's own
fans. So instead of a soft whump when the thing fired off in the
basement, they got this whining fan for a minute or so while the thing
cleared any possible gas out of the flame chamber, then another whine
while the burner fan whipped up and then finally it lit off. Really
noisy in the middle of the night. So, no hot water during a power
outage, the one place where gas appliances shine. They sell these
things on the basis that the pilot light on the old-style units is
burning money, but you could probably run a pilot light for a hundred
years on the price difference. And the tank is going to go in 10-15
years anyway, that's not been improved at all. But it's
"computerized" so that's OK.

Stan- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I think in addition to saving on the pilot light gas, which I agree
is small, they are also more energy efficient because of the
fact that they rely on a blower to move air through them.
With the blower off, a lot less air moves through than with
a traditional chimney vented unit. * Less air moving through
the core means less heat loss.

But I agree with your overall analysis. *I think if you look at
the price difference, it takes quite a long time to recover
the upfront money. *And if you have to run new venting, that
also drives up the install cost, at least for the first time.
And then you need an outlet close enough to plug it in,
which could mean installing that too. *With a conventional
tannk, my whole gas bill in summer is less than $20,
which includes all the water heated, plus some gas grilling.
So, the energy loss of the tank can't be all that much.
You might never recover the money.
================================================== =====

You are almost guar-own-teed to never recover the $ diff.
How much are those things, anyway?

Dood, you ****ed off clare in CA as well?? *How did you do that??
Oh, Oh, Oh, I know!!!!! * By being a prick!!!!!
Clare is one of the nicer more knowledgeable people around here.
And, hey, didn't YOU once promise to killfile Moi???
--
EA- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

You will also find active units for small boats. Mercruiser and Volvo
both make them. I'm not sure it's worth the bother though.

Existential Angst:

I graduated in Mechanical Engineering with a major in metallurgy, which includes the subject of corrosion of metals, and I can tell you that using electrical power to protect metal from corrosion is a well established technology based on sound principles. It's not a scam product that will make your car get 200 mpg or a snake oil that will cure your arthritis.

For example, Manitoba Hydro (which is our provincially owned electric utility) uses some of the power it generates at our hydro electric dams and transports via it's series of "dipoles" (which are what it calls the series of steel transmission towers) that carry the three phase power to protect those steel transmission towers from corrosion.


Basically, the corrosion of all metals involves the metal losing electrons and the resulting metal ions going into solution in a liquid (usually water). It's basically just the process of electroplating done in reverse. By providing a source of electrons to replace those lost by the metal, you prevent the metal atoms from going into solution in the liquid as ions, and the result is that you prevent the loss of the metal atoms to the liquid. Most people would call that "preventing corrosion of the metal".

That subject was one that was not covered in the bachelor's program, but only in the master's program, so I never learned much about the process, only that it was used on metal equipment that would be very expensive to replace (like navy ships, pipelines and steel electrical transmission towers that are miles and miles from the nearest telephone).

But, be aware that even though you CAN protect your hot water heater's tank from corrosion using electrical power, doing that won't affect all the other things that eventually cause the tank to fail. The repeated heating and cooling of the porcelain enamel coating inside the tank will cause that lining to crack, scale will continue to form on the hottest surfaces inside the tank (which would be the heating elements on an electric tank and the bottom of a gas fired tank), and the mechanical components of the tank (like the thermostat, gas valve and such) will continue to wear out with use.

So, you can protect the tank, but in my opinion, the money would be better spent buying an air compressor an impact wrench so that you can change the anode in any water heater you buy yourself every couple of years.

PS: A sacrificial anode (like the kind you find in a water heater) protects the steel tank because zinc or magnesium lose electrons much more readily than iron. So, what happens is that as the magnesium or zinc goes into solution as ions in your water, the electrons from the zinc or magnesium are available to replace any lost by the iron atoms of the tank. More correctly, IF any iron atoms in the tank lose an electron, that electron is replaced by one from the sacrificial anode, thereby preventing the iron from becoming an ion and going into solution in the water.

Hope this helps.

On Jan 27, 2:48*pm, "Existential Angst" wrote:
Awl --

From a site I found (and mentioned, iirc, by a poster in the previous
thread), good info.

http://www.waterheaterrescue.com/pag.../Longevity/wha...

Here's a neat alternative to magnesium anodes:http://
http://www.waterheaterrescue.com/pag.../OrderPages/XC...

Is this really effectve?

May be as effective as something called a "water softener". Some can
distill water to almost complete purity BEFORE it even goes into the
house (or building).

(just use that)