Small NG heater in the well house. When operating, on occasion get an
odor of gas but have had no success at all in finding source of any leak.

Interesting discovery--installed new pilot and safety control valve last
year owing to two things--old one had a "wild" pilot that is, of course,
inherently unsafe as well as now no longer legal and the final straw was
that the old pilot assembly had eroded to point didn't have good flame.
Anyway, did that last spring after last of cold weather was open.

The new TC works w/ the safety valve now just peachy keen--went out
there the other day after a really windy day (this is SW KS, after all)
and the pilot had been blown out. The safety valve had closed since TC
was cold w/o the pilot light to keep it warm and there was _no_ odor.
This pretty much proves that any leak cannot be in the piping up to the
control valve or even as we had thought perhaps in the service line and
coming up through the small hole in the slab where the pump entrance
line from the well to the tank comes through thought perhaps a pinhole
there might let gas migrate along the pipe and follow it up. This
result indicates no leaks there.

So, I relit the pilot and again there is now some small odor -- it's not
terribly strong but nowhere can I find any leak in the connection from
the valve outlet to the pilot/burner...soapy solutions on all the
connections show nothing, getting down on belly and sniffing around can
find no location w/ any stronger odor. Anybody got any ideas as to
how/where this might be traced down????

--

dpb wrote:

Small NG heater in the well house. When operating, on occasion get an
odor of gas but have had no success at all in finding source of any leak.

I wouldn't trust my nose on that one. I'll bet the well house is
too small for there to be enough O2 for the heater.

I'd put an explosive gas/CO detector out there and make sure I wasn't
about to blow up the well house.
[you'd have to spend some time out there to be harmed by CO-- but keep
in mind it *is* accumulative]

Jim

On Mon, 17 Dec 2012 14:55:19 -0600, dpb wrote:

Small NG heater in the well house. When operating, on occasion get an
odor of gas but have had no success at all in finding source of any leak.

Your gas supplier should provide the leak detection service for free.
They have the training and tools.

I'd call them out.

On 12/17/2012 3:39 PM, Jim Elbrecht wrote:
wrote:

Small NG heater in the well house. When operating, on occasion get an
odor of gas but have had no success at all in finding source of any leak.

I wouldn't trust my nose on that one. I'll bet the well house is
too small for there to be enough O2 for the heater.

I'd put an explosive gas/CO detector out there and make sure I wasn't
about to blow up the well house.
[you'd have to spend some time out there to be harmed by CO-- but keep
in mind it *is* accumulative]

That's actually not a bad thought, Jim...it is only 8x10 or somesuch and
is fairly tight being block. Hadn't thought about it possibly being
that but that it doesn't really smell like pure odorant/gas is probably
a clue. Of course, store bulk oil and chemical in there too because
it's the one place that is kept above freezing outside the house so
there's a conflicting set of both petroleum and other chemical odor
sources as well (pun not intended; the well is no longer in the well
house; only the pressure pump/controls as the well around which it was
built didn't last very long).

I really don't think it's close to getting to an explosive mixture
level, though; this heater has been out there (w/ the wild pilot until
this year, even, so I'm sure there have been times when the pilot went
out and it still didn't blow even w/ that uncontrolled source) since the
early 60s. If it were that high a concentration it would have done it
long ago. It's just annoying and leaves one w/ the feel of mayhaps
just... I'd like to cure it if I can figure out what the cure
is--and you may have just hit upon it.

I'll think about how I might introduce some combustion air--leaving one
of the jalousie windows ajar would do it I suppose but is a little hard
on the thermal envelope.

--

On 12/17/2012 4:04 PM, Zz Yzx wrote:
On Mon, 17 Dec 2012 14:55:19 -0600, wrote:

Small NG heater in the well house. When operating, on occasion get an
odor of gas but have had no success at all in finding source of any leak.

Your gas supplier should provide the leak detection service for free.
They have the training and tools.

I'd call them out.

They've been out a couple of times w/ no more luck than I on pinpointing
anything, unfortunately.

--

On 12/17/12 3:55 PM, dpb wrote:
Small NG heater in the well house. When operating, on occasion get an
odor of gas but have had no success at all in finding source of any leak.

Interesting discovery--installed new pilot and safety control valve
last year owing to two things--old one had a "wild" pilot that is, of
course, inherently unsafe as well as now no longer legal and the final
straw was that the old pilot assembly had eroded to point didn't have
good flame. Anyway, did that last spring after last of cold weather
was open.

The new TC works w/ the safety valve now just peachy keen--went out
there the other day after a really windy day (this is SW KS, after
all) and the pilot had been blown out. The safety valve had closed
since TC was cold w/o the pilot light to keep it warm and there was
_no_ odor. This pretty much proves that any leak cannot be in the
piping up to the control valve or even as we had thought perhaps in
the service line and coming up through the small hole in the slab
where the pump entrance line from the well to the tank comes through
thought perhaps a pinhole there might let gas migrate along the pipe
and follow it up. This result indicates no leaks there.

So, I relit the pilot and again there is now some small odor -- it's
not terribly strong but nowhere can I find any leak in the connection
from the valve outlet to the pilot/burner...soapy solutions on all the
connections show nothing, getting down on belly and sniffing around
can find no location w/ any stronger odor. Anybody got any ideas as
to how/where this might be traced down????

--

Possible dumb question here. Does this heater have an exhaust
vent/flue/chimney; or is it a "flueless" space heater ??

Can you post a pic ??

On 12/17/2012 4:54 PM, Retired wrote:
....

Possible dumb question here. Does this heater have an exhaust
vent/flue/chimney; or is it a "flueless" space heater ??

Can you post a pic ??

Yes, no, no (that is, could but not going to as don't think it's of any
pertinence at the moment, ...) It was out entirely while retrofitting
the new pilot assembly and installing the safety valve so know the flue
isn't plugged 'cuz had it down...

Not bad question though, but down the wrong track methinks...

--

On 12/17/2012 4:25 PM, dpb wrote:
On 12/17/2012 3:39 PM, Jim Elbrecht wrote:
wrote:

Small NG heater in the well house. When operating, on occasion get an
odor of gas but have had no success at all in finding source of any
leak.

I wouldn't trust my nose on that one. I'll bet the well house is
too small for there to be enough O2 for the heater.

....

That's actually not a bad thought, Jim...it is only 8x10 or somesuch and
is fairly tight being block. Hadn't thought about it possibly being that
but that it doesn't really smell like pure odorant/gas is probably a
clue. ,,,
....
I'll think about how I might introduce some combustion air--leaving one
of the jalousie windows ajar would do it I suppose...

OK, I did open one just a wee crack this evening...will see how it
smells in the morning...

--

On Mon, 17 Dec 2012 16:29:15 -0600, dpb wrote:

On 12/17/2012 4:04 PM, Zz Yzx wrote:
On Mon, 17 Dec 2012 14:55:19 -0600, wrote:

Small NG heater in the well house. When operating, on occasion get an
odor of gas but have had no success at all in finding source of any leak.

Your gas supplier should provide the leak detection service for free.
They have the training and tools.

I'd call them out.

They've been out a couple of times w/ no more luck than I on pinpointing
anything, unfortunately.

On rare occassion, I get a slight whiff of natural gas odor (actually,
it's a mercaptin chemical that's added to the natural gas; skunk scent
is also a mercaptan) from my water heater closet. Same deal: can't
find it, gas comapny can't find it, it goes away.

On Mon, 17 Dec 2012 14:55:19 -0600, dpb wrote:

Small NG heater in the well house. When operating, on occasion get an
odor of gas but have had no success at all in finding source of any leak.

Interesting discovery--installed new pilot and safety control valve last
year owing to two things--old one had a "wild" pilot that is, of course,
inherently unsafe as well as now no longer legal and the final straw was
that the old pilot assembly had eroded to point didn't have good flame.
Anyway, did that last spring after last of cold weather was open.

The new TC works w/ the safety valve now just peachy keen--went out
there the other day after a really windy day (this is SW KS, after all)
and the pilot had been blown out. The safety valve had closed since TC
was cold w/o the pilot light to keep it warm and there was _no_ odor.
This pretty much proves that any leak cannot be in the piping up to the
control valve or even as we had thought perhaps in the service line and
coming up through the small hole in the slab where the pump entrance
line from the well to the tank comes through thought perhaps a pinhole
there might let gas migrate along the pipe and follow it up. This
result indicates no leaks there.

So, I relit the pilot and again there is now some small odor -- it's not
terribly strong but nowhere can I find any leak in the connection from
the valve outlet to the pilot/burner...soapy solutions on all the
connections show nothing, getting down on belly and sniffing around can
find no location w/ any stronger odor. Anybody got any ideas as to
how/where this might be traced down????
What kind of burner??? Sometimes if it is a perforated tube or cast
iron burner a couple of the holes do not burn properly (sometimes a
few blow out due to air movement - common in places like rural SW
Kansas) and the unburned gas smells the place up.

On 12/17/2012 7:47 PM, wrote:
....

What kind of burner??? Sometimes if it is a perforated tube or cast
iron burner a couple of the holes do not burn properly (sometimes a
few blow out due to air movement - common in places like rural SW
Kansas) and the unburned gas smells the place up.

That's not a bad thing to check on--thanks.

It is a _very_ old heater; I remember it as a kid was in the bathroom of
the house before folks added the central air/remodeled and that would
have been early '50s. I suspect it was installed when they moved the
house from the site west of town that became the Army air base (B-24
commander training base) during the war in spring '43...altho it might
have not been until after the war rationing was over. So, I know it's
at least 60 and may be nearly 10 yr older than that.

--

That's actually not a bad thought, Jim...it is only 8x10 or somesuch and
is fairly tight being block. Hadn't thought about it possibly being that
but that it doesn't really smell like pure odorant/gas is probably a
clue. ,,,
...
I'll think about how I might introduce some combustion air--leaving one
of the jalousie windows ajar would do it I suppose...

OK, I did open one just a wee crack this evening...will see how it
smells in the morning...

--

you can put a plumbers P trap thru the wall.it wil allow makeup air
entry but prevent gross loss of warmth

On Mon, 17 Dec 2012 14:55:19 -0600, dpb wrote:

Small NG heater in the well house. When operating, on occasion get an
odor of gas but have had no success at all in finding source of any leak.

Interesting discovery--installed new pilot and safety control valve last
year owing to two things--old one had a "wild" pilot that is, of course,
inherently unsafe as well as now no longer legal and the final straw was
that the old pilot assembly had eroded to point didn't have good flame.
Anyway, did that last spring after last of cold weather was open.

The new TC works w/ the safety valve now just peachy keen--went out
there the other day after a really windy day (this is SW KS, after all)
and the pilot had been blown out. The safety valve had closed since TC
was cold w/o the pilot light to keep it warm and there was _no_ odor.
This pretty much proves that any leak cannot be in the piping up to the
control valve or even as we had thought perhaps in the service line and
coming up through the small hole in the slab where the pump entrance
line from the well to the tank comes through thought perhaps a pinhole
there might let gas migrate along the pipe and follow it up. This
result indicates no leaks there.

So, I relit the pilot and again there is now some small odor -- it's not
terribly strong but nowhere can I find any leak in the connection from
the valve outlet to the pilot/burner...soapy solutions on all the
connections show nothing, getting down on belly and sniffing around can
find no location w/ any stronger odor. Anybody got any ideas as to
how/where this might be traced down????

There are different types of gas. What kind are you smelling? Maybe
you just eat too many beans!!!
In a small shed like that, it will be much more noticable.

On 12/18/2012 12:42 PM, dpb wrote:
On 12/17/2012 3:39 PM, Jim Elbrecht wrote:
wrote:

Small NG heater in the well house. When operating, on occasion get an
odor of gas but have had no success at all in finding source of any
leak.

I wouldn't trust my nose on that one. I'll bet the well house is
too small for there to be enough O2 for the heater.
...

Looked up Code reqm'ts for 100% combustion air internal--for a normally
tight dwelling it says 50 cu-ft/1000 Btu; now I'm left wondering what is
the capacity of this little heater? Got any ideas on how to guesstimate
what that might be? It's a single row of burners roughly a foot long I'm
guessing; I'll have to go take more exact measurements. AFAICT there's
no ratings on it that are legible any longer, anyways...

Well, I didn't look in right place while laying on my belly on the floor
of the pump house... -- the getting up from which isn't as easy as it
used to be, either.

Anyway, the dimensions are bigger than I think--it's 8x14.5x7.5 interior
which is just under 900 cu-ft and the input is 16000 Btu/hr. That's
just a little above the 800 cu-ft for inside air ratio by the Code table
I found so guess that it's a little smelly might not be surprising.

The tiny crack on the window didn't really seem to make much difference
overnight last night but it was almost dead calm and I did leave it open
only a very small amount so wasn't much air circulation certainly.

I did really look at the flame down the burners just now and they all
appear to be firing fully and not intermittently w/ a nice blue flame so
I still have no real answer other than the air supply. I do need to get
on the roof and be double-sure the rain cap/wind diverter are open --
got to thinking I know about the flue from when pulled it last spring
but I didn't go up top then.

Anyway, there is a CO monitor upstairs, guess I will take it out there
and plug it in the wall and see if it reads anything significant...

--