"The AAA says the Environmental Protection Agency and gasoline retailers
should halt the sale of E15, a new ethanol blend that could damage millions
of vehicles and void car warranties. AAA, which issued its warning today,
says just 12 million of more than 240 million cars, trucks and SUVs now in
use have manufacturers' approval for E15. "

http://www.freep.com/article/20121130/BUSINESS01/121130007/gasoline-ethanol-car-truck-damage-AAA?odyssey=tab|topnews|text|FRONTPAGE

On Friday, November 30, 2012 1:33:10 PM UTC-5, HeyBub wrote:
"The AAA says the Environmental Protection Agency and gasoline retailers
should halt the sale of E15, a new ethanol blend that could damage millions
of vehicles and void car warranties. AAA, which issued its warning today,
says just 12 million of more than 240 million cars, trucks and SUVs now in
use have manufacturers' approval for E15. "

Either there will be a massive failure of vehicles and a large class-action lawsuit, or nothing will become of this "the sky is falling" BS.

It's gonna suck because your MPG will go down another 5%, and gas prices are not going to go down because of it.

Ethanol is a big middle-finger to the Arab oil sheiks, and puts the money in the pockets of good hard-working patriotic American farmers, so I don't know why people get so hot over it...

Oh wait, I do know why: It's because you self-proclaimed "conservatives" can't stand to see ANYONE succeed. You're no better than the "liberals" you claim to be the opposite of.

The main difference between "conservatives" and "liberals" is: "Conservatives" only want *THEMSELVES* to succeed, and will manipulate the system to ensure that happens. "Liberals" want *NOBODY* to succeed, and will manipulate the system to ensure that happens.

On Friday, November 30, 2012 11:33:10 AM UTC-7, HeyBub wrote:
"The AAA says the Environmental Protection Agency and gasoline retailers

should halt the sale of E15, a new ethanol blend that could damage millions

of vehicles and void car warranties. AAA, which issued its warning today,

says just 12 million of more than 240 million cars, trucks and SUVs now in

use have manufacturers' approval for E15. "



http://www.freep.com/article/20121130/BUSINESS01/121130007/gasoline-ethanol-car-truck-damage-AAA?odyssey=tab|topnews|text|FRONTPAGE





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M]%(8C D^Y;W_.?=H!)Y%MTHL1(]JNU]NH )F'KHN&#=60_:H"SUA5]CB8T7

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end

My Dodge van is able to handle E-85 fuel but no one has it in their pumps.
I would use it if it was available. If you believe anything that the
Petroleum Institute puts out then you are gullible.

Ethanol requires fossil fuels to plant, harvest, transport, distil. Last
time I looked, it's energy negative. Takes more energy to produce, than what
you get back.

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

wrote in message
...

Ethanol is a big middle-finger to the Arab oil sheiks, and puts the money in
the pockets of good hard-working patriotic American farmers, so I don't know
why people get so hot over it...

As a self proclaimed conservative, I'd like to see all hard working, honest
people become wealthy. I'd like the US government to live within it's
Constitutional authority, and within its collected budget. I'd like to see
both taxes and spending greatly lowered, and the powers delegated to the
states.

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

wrote in message
...

Oh wait, I do know why: It's because you self-proclaimed "conservatives"
can't stand to see ANYONE succeed. You're no better than the "liberals" you
claim to be the opposite of.

Conservatives would like all hard working, honest
people to succed. Liberals woud like government
to succeed in running the lives of everyone.

You should listen to Rush Limbaugh, and Sean
Hannity. It would all bcome more clear to you.

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

wrote in message
...

The main difference between "conservatives" and "liberals" is:
"Conservatives" only want *THEMSELVES* to succeed, and will manipulate the
system to ensure that happens. "Liberals" want *NOBODY* to succeed, and will
manipulate the system to ensure that happens.

Try Fastrac stations, found in NYS.
Plenty of E-85 to be found.

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

"Roy" wrote in message
...

My Dodge van is able to handle E-85 fuel
but no one has it in their pumps.

I would use it if it was available.

On Fri, 30 Nov 2012 15:23:59 -0500, "Stormin Mormon"
wrote:

Conservatives would like all hard working, honest
people to succed. Liberals woud like government
to succeed in running the lives of everyone.

You should listen to Rush Limbaugh, and Sean
Hannity. It would all bcome more clear to you.


Why? We can't think for ourselves? I'm tired of all these talk
shows regardless of party. They all think they're smarter than
everyone else.

On Nov 30, 3:00*pm, wrote:
On Friday, November 30, 2012 1:33:10 PM UTC-5, HeyBub wrote:
"The AAA says the Environmental Protection Agency and gasoline retailers
should halt the sale of E15, a new ethanol blend that could damage millions
of vehicles and void car warranties. AAA, which issued its warning today,
says just 12 million of more than 240 million cars, trucks and SUVs now in
use have manufacturers' approval for E15. "

Either there will be a massive failure of vehicles and a large class-action lawsuit, or nothing will become of this "the sky is falling" BS.

It's gonna suck because your MPG will go down another 5%, and gas prices are not going to go down because of it.

Ethanol is a big middle-finger to the Arab oil sheiks, and puts the money in the pockets of good hard-working patriotic American farmers, so I don't know why people get so hot over it...

How about the starving children, dying in Africa? Is that
a good enough reason? Diversion of crops to ethanol has
tripled the price of grains. That hits everyone from those
struggling in this country who buy corn flakes, to those
hungry children in Africa. Don't forget to factor in that
increased cost in corn flakes, beef, bread, and lives lost.

As for the good hard-working American farmers, sounds
like something out of a Norman Rockwell painting. A lot of
the farmers producing the bulk of the ethanol crops and
making money off it better fit the profile of the 1% that the
libs hate. Meaning they are multi-millionaires and/or large
corporations that are profiting.



Oh wait, I do know why: It's because you self-proclaimed "conservatives" can't stand to see ANYONE succeed. You're no better than the "liberals" you claim to be the opposite of.


That's a new and crazy concept. Last time I checked, it's
not conservatives that want to punish success.






The main difference between "conservatives" and "liberals" is: "Conservatives" only want *THEMSELVES* to succeed, and will manipulate the system to ensure that happens. "Liberals" want *NOBODY* to succeed, and will manipulate the system to ensure that happens.


Nonsense. A system of low tax rates and less govt benefits
EVERYONE.

I like the conservative perspective. Nice to have
someone helping keep an eye on the power mads
who are in office.

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

"Doug" wrote in message
...

You should listen to Rush Limbaugh, and Sean
Hannity. It would all bcome more clear to you.


Why? We can't think for ourselves? I'm tired of all these talk
shows regardless of party. They all think they're smarter than
everyone else.

" wrote:

Ethanol is a big middle-finger to the Arab oil sheiks, and puts the money in the pockets of good hard-working patriotic American farmers, so I don't know why people get so hot over it...

How about the starving children, dying in Africa? Is that
a good enough reason? Diversion of crops to ethanol has
tripled the price of grains. That hits everyone from those
struggling in this country who buy corn flakes, to those
hungry children in Africa. Don't forget to factor in that
increased cost in corn flakes, beef, bread, and lives lost.

For once, we are in violent agreement. Corn based ethanol is a disaster. We
are burning food.

If it becomes cost efficient to get ethanol from cellulose, that's another
story. But we ain't there yet. The only positive thing about ethanol in
gasoline is that it is not as bad as the alternative: MTBE.

-- Doug

In article ,
" wrote:

How about the starving children, dying in Africa? Is that
a good enough reason? Diversion of crops to ethanol has
tripled the price of grains. That hits everyone from those
struggling in this country who buy corn flakes, to those
hungry children in Africa.


feed a man one time and he will be grateful, feed him more than that and he
won't grow his own food.

Don't forget to factor in that
increased cost in corn flakes, beef, bread, and lives lost.

as far as beef goes, the DDGS provide a higher protein content than the corn and
the Distillers need to either sell it or pay to have it disposed.

In article ,
"Stormin Mormon" wrote:

Conservatives would like all hard working, honest
people to succed.

But tend to buy up their companies and sell the scraps


Liberals woud like government
to succeed in running the lives of everyone.

You should listen to Rush Limbaugh, and Sean
Hannity. It would all bcome more clear to you.

Romney and crowd listened to them and made the absolute mistake of believing them



Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
.

wrote in message
...

The main difference between "conservatives" and "liberals" is:
"Conservatives" only want *THEMSELVES* to succeed, and will manipulate the
system to ensure that happens. "Liberals" want *NOBODY* to succeed, and will
manipulate the system to ensure that happens.

In article ,
"Stormin Mormon" wrote:

I like the conservative perspective. Nice to have
someone helping keep an eye on the power mads
who are in office.

If only they had spoke up when the power mads in office were touting WMDs in Iraq



Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
.

"Doug" wrote in message
...

You should listen to Rush Limbaugh, and Sean
Hannity. It would all bcome more clear to you.


Why? We can't think for ourselves? I'm tired of all these talk
shows regardless of party. They all think they're smarter than
everyone else.

In article ,
"Stormin Mormon" wrote:

Ethanol requires fossil fuels to plant, harvest, transport, distil. Last
time I looked, it's energy negative. Takes more energy to produce, than what
you get back.

nit: that basically only applies to corn based ethanol. Brazil for some eerie
reason is able to grow sugar cane and produce ethanol that is energy positive



Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
.

wrote in message
...

Ethanol is a big middle-finger to the Arab oil sheiks, and puts the money in
the pockets of good hard-working patriotic American farmers, so I don't know
why people get so hot over it...

In article ,
"Stormin Mormon" wrote:

As a self proclaimed conservative, I'd like to see all hard working, honest
people become wealthy. I'd like the US government to live within it's
Constitutional authority, and within its collected budget. I'd like to see
both taxes and spending greatly lowered, and the powers delegated to the
states.

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
.

wrote in message
...

Oh wait, I do know why: It's because you self-proclaimed "conservatives"
can't stand to see ANYONE succeed. You're no better than the "liberals" you
claim to be the opposite of.

As a self-proclaimed liberal, I'd like to see all wealthy people be honest and
ethical

"Malcom \"Mal\" Reynolds" wrote in news:atlas-bugged-
:

In article ,
"Stormin Mormon" wrote:

Ethanol requires fossil fuels to plant, harvest, transport, distil. Last
time I looked, it's energy negative. Takes more energy to produce, than what
you get back.

nit: that basically only applies to corn based ethanol. Brazil for some eerie
reason is able to grow sugar cane and produce ethanol that is energy positive

Won't work in the U.S., though, because the climate here won't support production of sugar
cane on the scale required.

On 11/30/2012 6:22 PM, Malcom "Mal" Reynolds wrote:
In article ,
"Stormin Mormon" wrote:

As a self proclaimed conservative, I'd like to see all hard working, honest
people become wealthy. I'd like the US government to live within it's
Constitutional authority, and within its collected budget. I'd like to see
both taxes and spending greatly lowered, and the powers delegated to the
states.

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
.

wrote in message
...

Oh wait, I do know why: It's because you self-proclaimed "conservatives"
can't stand to see ANYONE succeed. You're no better than the "liberals" you
claim to be the opposite of.

As a self-proclaimed liberal, I'd like to see all wealthy people be honest and
ethical


Those Limousine Liberals sure do have a long way to go in that sense. ^_^

TDD

Stormin Mormon wrote:
Conservatives would like all hard working, honest
people to succed. Liberals woud like government
to succeed in running the lives of everyone.

You should listen to Rush Limbaugh, and Sean
Hannity. It would all bcome more clear to you.

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org

You watch FOX "news", and know nothing about the real world. It is well
documented the Fox viewers are wrong more than people that don't watch any news.

wrote:
On Friday, November 30, 2012 1:33:10 PM UTC-5, HeyBub wrote:
"The AAA says the Environmental Protection Agency and gasoline
retailers should halt the sale of E15, a new ethanol blend that
could damage millions of vehicles and void car warranties. AAA,
which issued its warning today, says just 12 million of more than
240 million cars, trucks and SUVs now in use have manufacturers'
approval for E15. "

Either there will be a massive failure of vehicles and a large
class-action lawsuit, or nothing will become of this "the sky is
falling" BS.

Possibly, but they won't all fail at once. Perhaps some will never fail and
others will fail over a several year period.


It's gonna suck because your MPG will go down another 5%, and gas
prices are not going to go down because of it.

Ethanol is a big middle-finger to the Arab oil sheiks, and puts the
money in the pockets of good hard-working patriotic American farmers,
so I don't know why people get so hot over it...

Because, as you said, MPG will go down for the same price paid. Plus, food
prices will go up.


Oh wait, I do know why: It's because you self-proclaimed
"conservatives" can't stand to see ANYONE succeed. You're no better
than the "liberals" you claim to be the opposite of.

Balderdash!


The main difference between "conservatives" and "liberals" is:
"Conservatives" only want *THEMSELVES* to succeed, and will
manipulate the system to ensure that happens. "Liberals" want
*NOBODY* to succeed, and will manipulate the system to ensure that
happens.

I have a better definition: Conservatives want to PROMOTE the general
welfare through the ECONOMY, liberals want to PROVIDE for the general
welfare through the TREASURY.

Doug Miller wrote:
"Malcom \"Mal\" Reynolds" wrote in
news:atlas-bugged- :

In article ,
"Stormin Mormon" wrote:

Ethanol requires fossil fuels to plant, harvest, transport, distil.
Last time I looked, it's energy negative. Takes more energy to
produce, than what you get back.

nit: that basically only applies to corn based ethanol. Brazil for
some eerie reason is able to grow sugar cane and produce ethanol
that is energy positive

Won't work in the U.S., though, because the climate here won't
support production of sugar cane on the scale required.

And the US does not permit the importation of Brazilian ethanol.

In article ,
The Daring Dufas wrote:

On 11/30/2012 6:22 PM, Malcom "Mal" Reynolds wrote:
In article ,
"Stormin Mormon" wrote:

As a self proclaimed conservative, I'd like to see all hard working,
honest
people become wealthy. I'd like the US government to live within it's
Constitutional authority, and within its collected budget. I'd like to see
both taxes and spending greatly lowered, and the powers delegated to the
states.

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
.

wrote in message
...

Oh wait, I do know why: It's because you self-proclaimed "conservatives"
can't stand to see ANYONE succeed. You're no better than the "liberals"
you
claim to be the opposite of.

As a self-proclaimed liberal, I'd like to see all wealthy people be honest
and
ethical


Those Limousine Liberals sure do have a long way to go in that sense. ^_^

TDD

just not quite as far as those Lear Jet Conservatives

In article ,
Doug Miller wrote:

"Malcom \"Mal\" Reynolds" wrote in
news:atlas-bugged-
:

In article ,
"Stormin Mormon" wrote:

Ethanol requires fossil fuels to plant, harvest, transport, distil. Last
time I looked, it's energy negative. Takes more energy to produce, than
what
you get back.

nit: that basically only applies to corn based ethanol. Brazil for some
eerie
reason is able to grow sugar cane and produce ethanol that is energy
positive

Won't work in the U.S., though, because the climate here won't support
production of sugar
cane on the scale required.

that would probably be news to florida

of course, if memory serves, there are other crops with higher yield per acre is
better than corn: sunchokes and hemp come to mind

In article ,
"HeyBub" wrote:

Doug Miller wrote:
"Malcom \"Mal\" Reynolds" wrote in
news:atlas-bugged- :

In article ,
"Stormin Mormon" wrote:

Ethanol requires fossil fuels to plant, harvest, transport, distil.
Last time I looked, it's energy negative. Takes more energy to
produce, than what you get back.

nit: that basically only applies to corn based ethanol. Brazil for
some eerie reason is able to grow sugar cane and produce ethanol
that is energy positive

Won't work in the U.S., though, because the climate here won't
support production of sugar cane on the scale required.

And the US does not permit the importation of Brazilian ethanol.

which has nothing to do with the fact that it is energy positive

On 11/30/2012 7:06 PM, Malcom "Mal" Reynolds wrote:
In article ,
The Daring Dufas wrote:

On 11/30/2012 6:22 PM, Malcom "Mal" Reynolds wrote:
In article ,
"Stormin Mormon" wrote:

As a self proclaimed conservative, I'd like to see all hard working,
honest
people become wealthy. I'd like the US government to live within it's
Constitutional authority, and within its collected budget. I'd like to see
both taxes and spending greatly lowered, and the powers delegated to the
states.

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
.

wrote in message
...

Oh wait, I do know why: It's because you self-proclaimed "conservatives"
can't stand to see ANYONE succeed. You're no better than the "liberals"
you
claim to be the opposite of.

As a self-proclaimed liberal, I'd like to see all wealthy people be honest
and
ethical


Those Limousine Liberals sure do have a long way to go in that sense. ^_^

TDD

just not quite as far as those Lear Jet Conservatives


Lear Jet hell, private 757. ^_^

TDD

On 11/30/2012 6:56 PM, Bob F wrote:
Stormin Mormon wrote:
Conservatives would like all hard working, honest
people to succed. Liberals woud like government
to succeed in running the lives of everyone.

You should listen to Rush Limbaugh, and Sean
Hannity. It would all bcome more clear to you.

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org

You watch FOX "news", and know nothing about the real world. It is well
documented the Fox viewers are wrong more than people that don't watch any news.



Your sentence structure and grammar indicate you're a fan of MSLSD news. ^_^

TDD

In article ,
The Daring Dufas wrote:


As a self-proclaimed liberal, I'd like to see all wealthy people be
honest and ethical


Those Limousine Liberals sure do have a long way to go in that sense. ^_^

TDD

just not quite as far as those Lear Jet Conservatives


Lear Jet hell, private 757. ^_^

TDD

bigger plane but still the same distance

On 11/30/2012 7:54 PM, Malcom "Mal" Reynolds wrote:
In article ,
The Daring Dufas wrote:


As a self-proclaimed liberal, I'd like to see all wealthy people be
honest and ethical


Those Limousine Liberals sure do have a long way to go in that sense. ^_^

TDD

just not quite as far as those Lear Jet Conservatives


Lear Jet hell, private 757. ^_^

TDD

bigger plane but still the same distance


Like Air Force One which is kept airborne by the power of the Messiah. ^_^

TDD

"The AAA says the Environmental Protection Agency and gasoline retailers
should halt the sale of E15, a new ethanol blend that could damage millions
of vehicles and void car warranties. AAA, which issued its warning today,
says just 12 million of more than 240 million cars, trucks and SUVs now in
use have manufacturers' approval for E15. "

The only reason they want to stop using ethanol for fuel, is because
they want to drink the stuff. It's pure Moonshine, the best booze money
can buy. I say it should be used for drinking. If people drink it, no
one will be sober enough to drive anyhow, and we will no longer need
fuel or cars. Dont just burn it up, enjoy it in a cocktail!!!

On Fri, 30 Nov 2012 17:08:44 -0800, "Malcom \"Mal\" Reynolds"
wrote:

In article ,
"HeyBub" wrote:

Doug Miller wrote:
"Malcom \"Mal\" Reynolds" wrote in
news:atlas-bugged- :

In article ,
"Stormin Mormon" wrote:

Ethanol requires fossil fuels to plant, harvest, transport, distil.
Last time I looked, it's energy negative. Takes more energy to
produce, than what you get back.

nit: that basically only applies to corn based ethanol. Brazil for
some eerie reason is able to grow sugar cane and produce ethanol
that is energy positive

Won't work in the U.S., though, because the climate here won't
support production of sugar cane on the scale required.

And the US does not permit the importation of Brazilian ethanol.

which has nothing to do with the fact that it is energy positive
Which has NOTHING to do with ethanol fuel in the U.S of A, or
Canada.

In article ,
wrote:

On Fri, 30 Nov 2012 17:08:44 -0800, "Malcom \"Mal\" Reynolds"
wrote:

In article ,
"HeyBub" wrote:

Doug Miller wrote:
"Malcom \"Mal\" Reynolds" wrote in
news:atlas-bugged- :

In article ,
"Stormin Mormon" wrote:

Ethanol requires fossil fuels to plant, harvest, transport, distil.
Last time I looked, it's energy negative. Takes more energy to
produce, than what you get back.

nit: that basically only applies to corn based ethanol. Brazil for
some eerie reason is able to grow sugar cane and produce ethanol
that is energy positive

Won't work in the U.S., though, because the climate here won't
support production of sugar cane on the scale required.

And the US does not permit the importation of Brazilian ethanol.

which has nothing to do with the fact that it is energy positive
Which has NOTHING to do with ethanol fuel in the U.S of A, or
Canada.

sure it does, it shows that there are reasonable alternatives to corn for
ethanol that are energy positive

In article ,
The Daring Dufas wrote:

On 11/30/2012 7:54 PM, Malcom "Mal" Reynolds wrote:
In article ,
The Daring Dufas wrote:


As a self-proclaimed liberal, I'd like to see all wealthy people be
honest and ethical


Those Limousine Liberals sure do have a long way to go in that sense. ^_^

TDD

just not quite as far as those Lear Jet Conservatives


Lear Jet hell, private 757. ^_^

TDD

bigger plane but still the same distance


Like Air Force One which is kept airborne by the power of the Messiah. ^_^

TDD

Whereas those private 757 are kept aloft by the power of Lucifer

On 11/30/2012 10:33 PM, Malcom "Mal" Reynolds wrote:
In article ,
The Daring Dufas wrote:

On 11/30/2012 7:54 PM, Malcom "Mal" Reynolds wrote:
In article ,
The Daring Dufas wrote:


As a self-proclaimed liberal, I'd like to see all wealthy people be
honest and ethical


Those Limousine Liberals sure do have a long way to go in that sense. ^_^

TDD

just not quite as far as those Lear Jet Conservatives


Lear Jet hell, private 757. ^_^

TDD

bigger plane but still the same distance


Like Air Force One which is kept airborne by the power of the Messiah. ^_^

TDD

Whereas those private 757 are kept aloft by the power of Lucifer


Yea, I'm a Devil worshiper. ^_^

TDD

"Stormin Mormon" wrote in message
news
Conservatives would like all hard working, honest
people to succed. Liberals woud like government
to succeed in running the lives of everyone.

Is that why conservatives are so dead set on telling women what they can or
can't do with their bodies? They allegedly want small government, but they
want to set it up inside a woman's uterus. You've got it all backwards
again, Stormin Morlim, it's the conservatives who want to tell people how to
run their lives. Too much Rush and Sean have rotted your brain.

LDS helped the Islamic Society of Orange County's Al-Rahman Mosque in
Garden Grove develop its library with a $15,000 donation. "Their beliefs are
similar to ours," Robert Bremmer, a Mormon bishop, said at that facility's
open-mosque day in 2005. "They have modest dress, and so do we. They believe
in all the [Old Testament] prophets, as do we."

http://articles.latimes.com/2008/apr.../me-morlims2/2

--
Bobby G.

On 11-30-2012 15:23, Stormin Mormon wrote:
You should listen to Rush Limbaugh, and Sean
Hannity. It would all bcome more clear to you.

Rush Limbaugh? For whom the cause is more important than the truth?
And the ratings more important than the cause?

--
Wes Groleau

Answer not a fool according to his folly,
lest thou also be like unto him.
Answer a fool according to his folly,
lest he be wise according to his own conceit.
€” Solomon
Are you saying there's no good way to answer a fool?
€” Groleau

" wrote in
:

Ethanol is a big middle-finger to the Arab oil sheiks, and puts the
money
in the pockets of good hard-working patriotic American farmers, so I
don't know why people get so hot over it...

How about the starving children, dying in Africa? Is that
a good enough reason?

No.

In article ,
"Malcom \"Mal\" Reynolds" wrote:

In article ,
"Stormin Mormon" wrote:

Ethanol requires fossil fuels to plant, harvest, transport, distil. Last
time I looked, it's energy negative. Takes more energy to produce, than
what
you get back.

nit: that basically only applies to corn based ethanol. Brazil for some eerie
reason is able to grow sugar cane and produce ethanol that is energy positive


Minor nit, since very little sugar cane ethanol is available in the
US, which is what we were talking about. To sorta get this back on
track, I have seen nothing to indicate that ethanol from sugar cane does
any less damage to the vehicles. Anybody?
--
America is at that awkward stage. It's too late
to work within the system, but too early to shoot
the *******s."-- Claire Wolfe

In article ,
"Malcom \"Mal\" Reynolds" wrote:


Won't work in the U.S., though, because the climate here won't support
production of sugar
cane on the scale required.

that would probably be news to florida

Heck they of all people would know that it won't support cane
production ON THE SCALE required.


of course, if memory serves, there are other crops with higher yield per acre
is
better than corn: sunchokes and hemp come to mind
Interesting chart of yields per acre and net energy.
http://grist.org/article/biofuel-some-numbers/
--
America is at that awkward stage. It's too late
to work within the system, but too early to shoot
the *******s."-- Claire Wolfe

On Dec 1, 6:02*am, Kurt Ullman wrote:
In article ,
*"Malcom \"Mal\" Reynolds" wrote:

In article ,
*"Stormin Mormon" wrote:

Ethanol requires fossil fuels to plant, harvest, transport, distil. Last
time I looked, it's energy negative. Takes more energy to produce, than
what
you get back.

nit: that basically only applies to corn based ethanol. Brazil for some eerie
reason is able to grow sugar cane and produce ethanol that is energy positive

* * Minor nit, since very little sugar cane ethanol is available in the
US, which is what we were talking about. * To sorta get this back on
track, I have seen nothing to indicate that ethanol from sugar cane does
any less damage to the vehicles. Anybody?
--

I agree. Everything I've seen indicates it's the ethanol
itself that is the problem, not some contamination
particular to the way it's produced. C2H6O is C2H6O.

"Malcom \"Mal\" Reynolds" wrote in news:atlas-bugged-
:

In article ,
Doug Miller wrote:


Won't work in the U.S., though, because the climate here won't support
production of sugar
cane on the scale required.

that would probably be news to florida

So you think that Florida is capable of producing sugar cane on the scale required to
supply the motor vehicle fuel needs of the U.S., or even a significant fraction thereof?

Dream on.