http://news.msn.com/us/ind-home-expl...-investigation
INDIANAPOLIS — Authorities launched a homicide investigation Monday
into the house explosion that killed a young couple and left numerous
homes uninhabitable in an Indianapolis neighborhood.

Indianapolis Homeland Security Director Gary Coons made the
announcement after meeting with residents of the subdivision where the
Nov. 10 blast occurred and shortly after funerals were held for the
two victims, who lived next door to the house where investigators
believe the explosion originated.

"We are turning this into a criminal homicide investigation," Coons
said, marking the first time investigators have called the case
criminal.

Search warrants are being executed and official are looking for a
white van that was seen in the subdivision on the day of the blast,
Marion County Prosecutor Terry Curry said. Authorities are offering at
least a $10,000 reward.

Curry said the investigation is aimed at "determining if there are
individuals who may be responsible for this explosion and fire."

Neither he nor Coons took questions or indicated if they had any
suspects. No arrests have been made.

Officials have said they believe natural gas was involved in the
explosion, which destroyed five homes and left dozens damaged, some
heavily. Damage has been estimated at $4.4 million.

Investigators have been focusing on appliances as they search for a
cause of the explosion.

Hundreds of people attended the funerals earlier Monday for the couple
killed in the explosion, 34-year-old John Dion Longworth and
36-year-old Jennifer Longworth. She was a teacher remembered for
knitting gifts for her students, while her husband, an electronics
expert, was known as a gardener and nature lover.

Indianapolis Mayor Greg Ballard spoke at the news conference and said
he went to the Longworths' funeral and had a hard time coming to peace
with what had happened.

"There is a search for truth and there is a search for justice,"
Ballard said.

The couple lived next door to the house where investigators are
focusing. The co-owner of that house, John Shirley, told The
Associated Press he had received a text message from his daughter
recently saying the furnace in the home, which she shares with her
mother and her mother's boyfriend, had gone out.

Shirley's ex-wife, Monserrate Shirley, said her boyfriend, Mark
Leonard, had replaced the thermostat recently and the furnace had
resumed working.

The couple was away at a casino at the time of the blast. The daughter
was staying with a friend, and the family's cat was being boarded.

Monserrate Shirley's attorney, Randall Cable, declined comment on the
announcement Monday evening.


Associated Press writer Ken Kusmer contributed to this report from
Indianapolis.

Associated Press writer Ken Kusmer contributed to this report from
Indianapolis.

Pretty difficult to deliberately arrange a gas explosion.

On Tue, 20 Nov 2012 00:54:41 -0800 (PST), harry
wrote:


Associated Press writer Ken Kusmer contributed to this report from
Indianapolis.

Pretty difficult to deliberately arrange a gas explosion.


1. Lend me your pipe wrench and I'll show you how.

2. Does not have to be deliberate of bring homicide charges.

In article ,
Ed Pawlowski wrote:

On Tue, 20 Nov 2012 00:54:41 -0800 (PST), harry
wrote:


Associated Press writer Ken Kusmer contributed to this report from
Indianapolis.

Pretty difficult to deliberately arrange a gas explosion.


1. Lend me your pipe wrench and I'll show you how.

2. Does not have to be deliberate of bring homicide charges.

I've done it a couple of times, in fact back in the day. After the fire
department got done burning the inside of a house for training purposes,
we got to set-up a NG blast in ocnjuction with the gas company and then
sent our investigator rookies into do the scene. They were in not
heavily populated areas and we set it up to blow fairly quickly so it
wasn't as impressive as this one, obviously.
--
America is at that awkward stage. It's too late
to work within the system, but too early to shoot
the *******s."-- Claire Wolfe

On Tue, 20 Nov 2012 05:52:56 -0500, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

On Tue, 20 Nov 2012 00:54:41 -0800 (PST), harry
wrote:


Associated Press writer Ken Kusmer contributed to this report from
Indianapolis.

Pretty difficult to deliberately arrange a gas explosion.


1. Lend me your pipe wrench and I'll show you how.

2. Does not have to be deliberate of bring homicide charges.

3. The facts surrounding the owner of the house have made me
suspicious from the gitgo. Absentee owner was estranged husband.
House was on the market for a long tome- recently taken off the
market. Wife lives with boyfriend and daughter in the house.
Nobody home.

'Guido' apparently miscalculated how big a boom a houseful of gas
would make.

Refer to 1-- Is Harry really that stupid? It may not be easy to
get away with, but it is about the easiest thing in the world to do.

Jim

Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On Tue, 20 Nov 2012 00:54:41 -0800 (PST), harry
wrote:


Associated Press writer Ken Kusmer contributed to this report from
Indianapolis.

Pretty difficult to deliberately arrange a gas explosion.


1. Lend me your pipe wrench and I'll show you how.

2. Does not have to be deliberate of bring homicide charges.

You can't bring "homicide charges" because "homicide" (the killing of one
human being by another) is not, per se, a crime.

In my state, there are five kinds of homicide:
1. Murder
2. Manslaughter
3. Negligent homicide
4. Justifiable
5. Excusable

Only the first three are criminal offenses. Here are examples of the
differences: Two men on a deer-hunting trip when one shoots and kills the
other.

1. With premeditation, the first hunter simply shoots and kills the second.
MURDER
2. During a heated argument, the second hunter is shot. MANSLAUGHTER.
3. Hunter one is drunk and improperly handles his gun. NEGLIGENT.
4. Hunter #2 shoots at #1 first, #1 returns fire killing #2. JUSTIFIABLE.
5. Hunter #2 jumps from behind bush wearing a deer costume. EXCUSABLE.

On 11/20/2012 2:54 AM, harry wrote:

Associated Press writer Ken Kusmer contributed to this report from
Indianapolis.

Pretty difficult to deliberately arrange a gas explosion.


Ah, this brings back memories. I grew up in a perfectly respectable
middle-class neighborhood. But one of the neighbors, who owned a
well-known supper club, got sent up after he was convicted of
engineering a gas leak ("faulty furnace") explosion that burned down
his house. Turned out his restaurant business was in trouble, and he
needed the insurance money.

Thirty years later there was another house that blew up and burned in
an adjacent community. The homeowner was hospitalized in critical
condition and later died from his burns. His girlfriend and daughter
weren't home at the time, fortunately. Turned out the homeowner was my
former neighbor's son, who was experiencing financial difficulties.
He'd gone into the basement to rig the furnace for an explosion/fire,
and miscalculated. He didn't get out of the house in time.

Like father, like son...

In article ,
Jim Elbrecht wrote:

3. The facts surrounding the owner of the house have made me
suspicious from the gitgo. Absentee owner was estranged husband.
House was on the market for a long tome- recently taken off the
market. Wife lives with boyfriend and daughter in the house.
Nobody home.


The redflag to me is boarding the cat. Does anyone board a cat for
three days? I don't own a cat, but my friends who do, don't spend the
money for a couple of days.
--
America is at that awkward stage. It's too late
to work within the system, but too early to shoot
the *******s."-- Claire Wolfe

On Tue, 20 Nov 2012 08:04:39 -0500, Kurt Ullman
wrote:

In article ,
Jim Elbrecht wrote:

3. The facts surrounding the owner of the house have made me
suspicious from the gitgo. Absentee owner was estranged husband.
House was on the market for a long tome- recently taken off the
market. Wife lives with boyfriend and daughter in the house.
Nobody home.


The redflag to me is boarding the cat. Does anyone board a cat for
three days? I don't own a cat, but my friends who do, don't spend the
money for a couple of days.

I didn't even see that one. Yup-- That alone would likely get me
digging.

And now the news says they also moved a car that had been parked on
the street for a long time.

Jim

Ed Pawlowski wrote:

"We are turning this into a criminal homicide investigation," Coons
said, marking the first time investigators have called the case
criminal.

Just remember that I was the first one here to speculate it was done
intentionally - for financial reasons.

Search warrants are being executed and official are looking for a
white van that was seen in the subdivision on the day of the blast,

Did it have "Flowers by Irene" painted on the side?

http://i3.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/...by%20irene.jpg

"There is a search for truth and there is a search for justice,"

What about a search for the American Way?

The couple was away at a casino at the time of the blast. The
daughter was staying with a friend, and the family's cat was
being boarded.

I'm glad the cat was safe.

On Nov 20, 10:52*am, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On Tue, 20 Nov 2012 00:54:41 -0800 (PST), harry

wrote:

Associated Press writer Ken Kusmer contributed to this report from
Indianapolis.

Pretty difficult to deliberately arrange a gas explosion.

1. *Lend me your pipe wrench and I'll show you how.

2. *Does not have to be deliberate of bring homicide charges.

The gas air mixture has to be right to get a good explosion.
This can't be guaranteed before ignition takes place.
And a source of ignition has to be provided somehow.

It's a murder like these stupid Hollywood films where the victim is
deliberately murdered by dropping an electrical appliance in the bath.
Concocted by idiots that know nothing.
For idiots that know nothing to watch.

We have an alternative lesser charge of manslaughter over here for
death by carelessness.

harry wrote:

The gas air mixture has to be right to get a good explosion.
This can't be guaranteed before ignition takes place.

If you have a gas leak in the basement, I garantee that somewhere in the
house the mixture will be perfect, and that somewhere will change over
time as more gas fills the house.

And a source of ignition has to be provided somehow.

The occupants of the house probably turned down the thermostat to
somewhere between 60 and 65f before they left.

This would be a clever way to set off the explosion.

The furnace is working, the house is sitting at 70f. You set the
thermostat to 65, you create your gas leak near the furnace, and you get
everyone out and go to the casino where you'll be spending the night.
It will take hours for the house temp to fall to 65, and all the while
the house is filling with gas. You turn off the water heater (or dial
it down to some low temp so it doesn't come on).

The house cools, the thermostat kicks in, the furnace ignition comes on,
then BOOM.

On 11/20/2012 9:30 AM, Home Guy wrote:
harry wrote:

The gas air mixture has to be right to get a good explosion.
This can't be guaranteed before ignition takes place.

If you have a gas leak in the basement, I garantee that somewhere in the
house the mixture will be perfect, and that somewhere will change over
time as more gas fills the house.

And a source of ignition has to be provided somehow.

The occupants of the house probably turned down the thermostat to
somewhere between 60 and 65f before they left.

This would be a clever way to set off the explosion.

The furnace is working, the house is sitting at 70f. You set the
thermostat to 65, you create your gas leak near the furnace, and you get
everyone out and go to the casino where you'll be spending the night.
It will take hours for the house temp to fall to 65, and all the while
the house is filling with gas. You turn off the water heater (or dial
it down to some low temp so it doesn't come on).

The house cools, the thermostat kicks in, the furnace ignition comes on,
then BOOM.

And, so what if it doesn't "go boom!" but just burns to the ground? The
(presumed) objective to have a reason to file an insurance claim has
been achieved...

--

On Nov 20, 4:16*am, Jim Elbrecht wrote:
On Tue, 20 Nov 2012 05:52:56 -0500, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On Tue, 20 Nov 2012 00:54:41 -0800 (PST), harry
wrote:

Associated Press writer Ken Kusmer contributed to this report from
Indianapolis.

Pretty difficult to deliberately arrange a gas explosion.

1. *Lend me your pipe wrench and I'll show you how.

2. *Does not have to be deliberate of bring homicide charges.

3. The facts surrounding the owner of the house have made me
suspicious from the gitgo. * * *Absentee owner was estranged husband.
House was on the market for a long tome- recently taken off the
market. * * Wife lives with boyfriend and daughter in the house.
Nobody home.

'Guido' apparently miscalculated how big a boom a houseful of gas
would make.

Refer to 1-- Is Harry really that stupid? * * It may not be easy to
get away with, but it is about the easiest thing in the world to do.

Jim

The only difficult part would be trying to arrange it to blow at a
specific time.

Harry K

On 11/20/2012 2:54 AM, harry wrote:

Associated Press writer Ken Kusmer contributed to this report from
Indianapolis.

Pretty difficult to deliberately arrange a gas explosion.


Easily done with a common barbeque grill propane tank. Don't ask me how
I know this. ^_^

TDD

On Tue, 20 Nov 2012 05:52:56 -0500, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

On Tue, 20 Nov 2012 00:54:41 -0800 (PST), harry
wrote:


Associated Press writer Ken Kusmer contributed to this report from
Indianapolis.

Pretty difficult to deliberately arrange a gas explosion.


1. Lend me your pipe wrench and I'll show you how.

2. Does not have to be deliberate of bring homicide charges.
Actually it would be VERY easy to set up a "deliberate" gas
explsion.

On Tue, 20 Nov 2012 06:51:12 -0800 (PST), harry
wrote:

On Nov 20, 10:52Â*am, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On Tue, 20 Nov 2012 00:54:41 -0800 (PST), harry

wrote:

Associated Press writer Ken Kusmer contributed to this report from
Indianapolis.

Pretty difficult to deliberately arrange a gas explosion.

1. Â*Lend me your pipe wrench and I'll show you how.

2. Â*Does not have to be deliberate of bring homicide charges.

The gas air mixture has to be right to get a good explosion.
This can't be guaranteed before ignition takes place.
And a source of ignition has to be provided somehow.

It's a murder like these stupid Hollywood films where the victim is
deliberately murdered by dropping an electrical appliance in the bath.
Concocted by idiots that know nothing.
For idiots that know nothing to watch.

We have an alternative lesser charge of manslaughter over here for
death by carelessness.
If I wanted to blow up a house with gas I would calculate the gas
flow from an open pipe, figure out how long to leave it open to get
the required mixture, and set up an electrical ignitor triggered by a
timer set to the required time. Dead simple - and almost fool-proof.
Now I'm sure Harry could screw it up using british technology - and a
lucas ignition system.

Didn't Arnold do this exact thing in the movie - ERASER -

disconnect the hose from the stove,
turn the mechanical thermo to high - so it would cycle almost immediately -
then run out -

On Tue, 20 Nov 2012 08:47:15 -0800 (PST), Harry K
wrote:

On Nov 20, 4:16Â*am, Jim Elbrecht wrote:
On Tue, 20 Nov 2012 05:52:56 -0500, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On Tue, 20 Nov 2012 00:54:41 -0800 (PST), harry
wrote:

Associated Press writer Ken Kusmer contributed to this report from
Indianapolis.

Pretty difficult to deliberately arrange a gas explosion.

1. Â*Lend me your pipe wrench and I'll show you how.

2. Â*Does not have to be deliberate of bring homicide charges.

3. The facts surrounding the owner of the house have made me
suspicious from the gitgo. Â* Â* Â*Absentee owner was estranged husband.
House was on the market for a long tome- recently taken off the
market. Â* Â* Wife lives with boyfriend and daughter in the house.
Nobody home.

'Guido' apparently miscalculated how big a boom a houseful of gas
would make.

Refer to 1-- Is Harry really that stupid? Â* Â* It may not be easy to
get away with, but it is about the easiest thing in the world to do.

Jim

The only difficult part would be trying to arrange it to blow at a
specific time.

Harry K
Even that is simple with a couple of timers, a remote valve, and an
ignitor. Don't try it with british equipment though.

On 11-20-2012 19:52, wrote:
On Tue, 20 Nov 2012 08:47:15 -0800 (PST), Harry K
The only difficult part would be trying to arrange it to blow at a
specific time.

Even that is simple with a couple of timers, a remote valve, and an
ignitor. Don't try it with british equipment though.

Appliance timer set to come on when you want the explosion to occur.

Set timer on gas oven to come on about to come on five minutes earlier.

Plugged into timer is igniting device.

TRIVIAL for investigators to detect.

I know how to make it nearly undetectable but I won't tell.

--
Wes Groleau

There ain't no right wing,
there ain't no left wing.
There's only you and me and we just disagree.
(apologies to Jim Krueger)

On 11-20-2012 07:48, Moe DeLoughan wrote:
Thirty years later there was another house that blew up and burned in an
adjacent community. The homeowner was hospitalized in critical condition
and later died from his burns. His girlfriend and daughter weren't home
at the time, fortunately. Turned out the homeowner was my former
neighbor's son, who was experiencing financial difficulties. He'd gone
into the basement to rig the furnace for an explosion/fire, and
miscalculated. He didn't get out of the house in time.

Kills himself trying to do what put his father in prison.

Intelligence sure runs in that family.

--
Wes Groleau

From the cowardice that shrinks from new truth,
From the laziness that is content with half-truths,
From the arrogance that thinks it knows all truth,
O God of Truth, deliver us.
--Leslie Dixon Weatherhead
--Rabbi Mordechai M. Kaplan
--ancient prayer
--unknown
--(no attempt at attribution)
(a thousand thanks to someone who can tell me who
really wrote it AND persuade me they're not making it up!)

On Tuesday, November 20, 2012 3:54:41 AM UTC-5, harry wrote:
Associated Press writer Ken Kusmer contributed to this report from

Indianapolis.



Pretty difficult to deliberately arrange a gas explosion.

Not with the AT&T cartel.

On Tuesday, November 20, 2012 8:50:03 AM UTC-5, Home Guy wrote:
Ed Pawlowski wrote:



I'm glad the car was safe.

On 11/20/2012 7:33 PM, Wes Groleau wrote:
On 11-20-2012 07:48, Moe DeLoughan wrote:
Thirty years later there was another house that blew up and burned
in an
adjacent community. The homeowner was hospitalized in critical
condition
and later died from his burns. His girlfriend and daughter weren't home
at the time, fortunately. Turned out the homeowner was my former
neighbor's son, who was experiencing financial difficulties. He'd gone
into the basement to rig the furnace for an explosion/fire, and
miscalculated. He didn't get out of the house in time.

Kills himself trying to do what put his father in prison.

Intelligence sure runs in that family.


Particularly since the family name and the local memory of his dad's
misdeed caused the investigators to immediately note the curious
coincidence, and shortly thereafter find the evidence substantiating
their suspicion.

On Tue, 20 Nov 2012 06:51:12 -0800 (PST), harry
wrote:

On Nov 20, 10:52*am, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On Tue, 20 Nov 2012 00:54:41 -0800 (PST), harry

wrote:

Associated Press writer Ken Kusmer contributed to this report from
Indianapolis.

Pretty difficult to deliberately arrange a gas explosion.

1. *Lend me your pipe wrench and I'll show you how.

2. *Does not have to be deliberate of bring homicide charges.

The gas air mixture has to be right to get a good explosion.
This can't be guaranteed before ignition takes place.
And a source of ignition has to be provided somehow.

Even a bad explosion can get the job done. Not hard to do at all.
Source of ignition? Give me 15 minutes and I'll have a few rigged.
Give me $20 and an hour and I'll have a dozen rigged.

Lots of conjecture here by non-experts.
Let's have some links to people found guilty of murder by
engineering a gas leak and subsequent explosion.

It will also fail when the proposed victims smell gas.

Plenty of fictional cases out there.
http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?...ecial%3ASearch

Hence the confusion in many minds on this group

In article ,
wrote:

On Tue, 20 Nov 2012 05:52:56 -0500, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

On Tue, 20 Nov 2012 00:54:41 -0800 (PST), harry
wrote:


Associated Press writer Ken Kusmer contributed to this report from
Indianapolis.

Pretty difficult to deliberately arrange a gas explosion.


1. Lend me your pipe wrench and I'll show you how.

2. Does not have to be deliberate of bring homicide charges.
Actually it would be VERY easy to set up a "deliberate" gas
explsion.

And it is looking more and more like it was deliberate.
--
America is at that awkward stage. It's too late
to work within the system, but too early to shoot
the *******s."-- Claire Wolfe

On Nov 21, 3:47*am, harry wrote:
Lots of conjecture here by non-experts.
*Let's have some *links to people found guilty of murder by
engineering a gas leak and subsequent explosion.

It will also fail when the proposed victims smell gas.

Plenty of fictional cases out there.http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?...s+explosion&bu...

Hence the confusion in many minds on this group

You don't have to INTEND to kill someone. Like in
this case. It could have been done to collect insurance,
not to kill someone. Still, if someone is killed unintentionally,
you can be charged with murder.

As for previous cases, how about this one:

http://abcnews.go.com/US/josh-powell...ry?id=15520394

Josh Powell tried to kill his two young sons with a hatchet before the
flames of the fiery explosion he had ignited engulfed them all, police
said today.

Powell, 36, failed to kill his sons Charles, 7, and Braden, 5, but
still wounded them horribly before they died -- smoke in their lungs
-- in the gas-fueled explosion Sunday, according to police and the
medical examiner.

Or how about this from, of all places, the UK:

"Gas engineer, 32, arrested on suspicion of manslaughter over blast
that killed toddler and destroyed four homes 'may have examined boiler
in one of the houses days before the explosion'

Read mo
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...#ixzz2Crg0JsR3
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

On Nov 21, 1:47*pm, "
wrote:
On Nov 21, 3:47*am, harry wrote:

Lots of conjecture here by non-experts.
*Let's have some *links to people found guilty of murder by
engineering a gas leak and subsequent explosion.

It will also fail when the proposed victims smell gas.

Plenty of fictional cases out there.http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?...s+explosion&bu...

Hence the confusion in many minds on this group

You don't have to INTEND to kill someone. *Like in
this case. *It could have been done to collect insurance,
not to kill someone. * Still, if someone is killed unintentionally,
you can be charged with murder.

As for previous cases, how about this one:

http://abcnews.go.com/US/josh-powell...fatal-explosio...

Josh Powell tried to kill his two young sons with a hatchet before the
flames of the fiery explosion he had ignited engulfed them all, police
said today.

Powell, 36, failed to kill his sons Charles, 7, and Braden, 5, but
still wounded them horribly before they died -- smoke in their lungs
-- in the gas-fueled explosion Sunday, according to police and the
medical examiner.

Or how about this from, of all places, the UK:

"Gas engineer, 32, arrested on suspicion of manslaughter over blast
that killed toddler and destroyed four homes 'may have examined boiler
in one of the houses days before the explosion'

Read mohttp://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...explosion-Man-...
*Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

But not deliberate. Just by bad luck all the conditions were
fulfilled for an explosion.
Most accidents are the result of several factors converging.

Like the Texas train smash.
The truck stopped.
The train was coming.
The people on the float were disabled and couldn't escape.

In article , Kurt Ullman wrote:

The redflag to me is boarding the cat. Does anyone board a cat for
three days?

I'd board my cats if it were even one night. To leave them alone for three
days would be totally irresponsible, bordering on animal cruelty.

Art

On 11/21/2012 10:11 AM, Arthur Shapiro wrote:
In article , Kurt Ullman wrote:

The redflag to me is boarding the cat. Does anyone board a cat for
three days?

I'd board my cats if it were even one night. To leave them alone for three
days would be totally irresponsible, bordering on animal cruelty.

Art


your cats probably won't even deign to notice that you're not there for
a week. given a bowl of food and water, and a litter box, a normal cat
won't care if someone is there until the food bowl is empty.

chaniarts wrote:

On 11/21/2012 10:11 AM, Arthur Shapiro wrote:
In article , Kurt Ullman wrote:

The redflag to me is boarding the cat. Does anyone board a cat for
three days?

I'd board my cats if it were even one night. To leave them alone for three
days would be totally irresponsible, bordering on animal cruelty.

Art


your cats probably won't even deign to notice that you're not there for
a week. given a bowl of food and water, and a litter box, a normal cat
won't care if someone is there until the food bowl is empty.

My cat certainly notices when I'm gone, but does just fine for a long
weekend. When I return she has kept track of how many days of attention
and treats are owed.

It is sure sounding like the explosion was the work of the ex-wife
and/or boyfriend.

In article ,
(Arthur Shapiro) wrote:

In article , Kurt Ullman
wrote:

The redflag to me is boarding the cat. Does anyone board a cat for
three days?

I'd board my cats if it were even one night. To leave them alone for three
days would be totally irresponsible, bordering on animal cruelty.

Art

INteresting. Most of my buddies that have cats would just leave them
there with plenty of food and water.
--
America is at that awkward stage. It's too late
to work within the system, but too early to shoot
the *******s."-- Claire Wolfe

In article ,
"Pete C." wrote:

It is sure sounding like the explosion was the work of the ex-wife
and/or boyfriend.

The BF's brother has a white van... just mentioning it, not making
accusations (grin).
--
America is at that awkward stage. It's too late
to work within the system, but too early to shoot
the *******s."-- Claire Wolfe

On Wed, 21 Nov 2012 00:47:38 -0800 (PST), harry
wrote:



Lots of conjecture here by non-experts.
Let's have some links to people found guilty of murder by
engineering a gas leak and subsequent explosion.

It will also fail when the proposed victims smell gas.

Plenty of fictional cases out there.
http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?...ecial%3ASearch

Hence the confusion in many minds on this group
There is a difference between Natural Gas and Propane. With propane
being heavier than air a basement gas leak can go undetected,
smell-wise - and still explode. NG is a bit different - being lighter
than air the smell gets around a lot faster.

"Pete C." wrote in message news:50ad1ce0$0$5510
stuff snipped

My cat certainly notices when I'm gone, but does just fine for a long
weekend. When I return she has kept track of how many days of attention
and treats are owed.

If you ever wondered whether dogs or cats can count, take out three treats
and give them only one.

--
Bobby G.

wrote in message

stuff snipped

There is a difference between Natural Gas and Propane. With propane
being heavier than air a basement gas leak can go undetected,
smell-wise - and still explode. NG is a bit different - being lighter
than air the smell gets around a lot faster.

If the gas is leaking in the basement of an enclosed house, it would
probably escape through the attic vents or the chimney and be dispersed high
above the ground. Then, since it's lighter than air it would rise up. A
whole house could fill with gas without anyone at ground level having any
idea there was a leak.

While there's a whole lot of circumstantial evidence here, it's going to be
very hard to prove arson beyond a reasonable doubt short of toolmarks and
fingerprints on the tools that made those marks.

--
Bobby G.

In article ,
"Robert Green" wrote:

wrote in message

stuff snipped

There is a difference between Natural Gas and Propane. With propane
being heavier than air a basement gas leak can go undetected,
smell-wise - and still explode. NG is a bit different - being lighter
than air the smell gets around a lot faster.

If the gas is leaking in the basement of an enclosed house, it would
probably escape through the attic vents or the chimney and be dispersed high
above the ground. Then, since it's lighter than air it would rise up. A
whole house could fill with gas without anyone at ground level having any
idea there was a leak.

While there's a whole lot of circumstantial evidence here, it's going to be
very hard to prove arson beyond a reasonable doubt short of toolmarks and
fingerprints on the tools that made those marks.

Ve haf vays of mecking the scene talk (grin). Computer trails to
websites about the workings of furnaces and/or furnace explosions past.
If there was a timer or ignition device for the purposes of alibi
establishment (or even just a lack of death wish on the part of the
person setting up the blast) that can be traced back. There are many
others. These guys aren't rocket scientists, so they likely left some
kind of trail. The main problem will probably be finding it in the
destruction.
AT least when I was involved, the IFD arson guys were good and the
ATF arson team was made up of wizards.
--
America is at that awkward stage. It's too late
to work within the system, but too early to shoot
the *******s."-- Claire Wolfe

"Robert Green" wrote:

wrote in message

stuff snipped

There is a difference between Natural Gas and Propane. With propane
being heavier than air a basement gas leak can go undetected,
smell-wise - and still explode. NG is a bit different - being lighter
than air the smell gets around a lot faster.

If the gas is leaking in the basement of an enclosed house, it would
probably escape through the attic vents or the chimney and be dispersed high
above the ground. Then, since it's lighter than air it would rise up. A
whole house could fill with gas without anyone at ground level having any
idea there was a leak.

While there's a whole lot of circumstantial evidence here, it's going to be
very hard to prove arson beyond a reasonable doubt short of toolmarks and
fingerprints on the tools that made those marks.

IMO- There are too many people involved. Somebody will cut a deal.

Jim

On Thu, 22 Nov 2012 07:11:55 -0500, Jim Elbrecht
wrote:

While there's a whole lot of circumstantial evidence here, it's going to be
very hard to prove arson beyond a reasonable doubt short of toolmarks and
fingerprints on the tools that made those marks.

IMO- There are too many people involved. Somebody will cut a deal.

People have a big mouth and can't keep it shut. They eventually tell
somebody. Might be another crook sitting in his cell. That person then
uses the information to make his own deal with the DA.

Fire forensics has made leaps and bounds in the science of fires.