" wrote:
On Sat, 20 Oct 2012 01:43:27 -0400, micky wrote:

On Fri, 19 Oct 2012 13:24:23 -0400, "
wrote:

On 19 Oct 2012 14:24:14 GMT, Han wrote:

"Stormin Mormon" wrote in
:

If a refrigerator is used outdoors, in the summer.
The condensor on the back, is black tubing. As
we know, black absorbs heat from the sun shine,
which makes the compressor work harder.

Of course, that condensor can be painted. Which
color paint is coolest in summer, and works best
to release the heat from the refrigerator? White, or
silver?

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org

The condensor is black because black radiates heat better. To make it
functioning that way, put an awning of some kind over the fridge to keep
solar radiation off of it.

"Black" in the visible range doesn't matter much at the far infrared
wavelengths the refrigerator will be operating at. It matters some in direct
sunlight because there is a significant component of sunlight in the visible
range (duh!). My point is that its "color" in visible light doesn't mean a
lot. The emissivity at the operating point matters.

White or silver doesn't make a difference, as
long as it is as opaque as can be. In addition, rig a small fan up so
there is additional cooling when the fridge is in cooling mode.

Again, color doesn't matter, as far as the operation of the refrigerator,
itself. If the object is to reflect visible sunlight, white is better.

How do you know that black paint doesn't radiate and absorb infrared
better too? Because it's not visible, you can't tell by looking but
you can by feeling.

You don't. That's the point. The color in visible light has little to do
with its emissivity at the (much) longer wavelengths. "White" paint might be
much better.

I know that when I had a convertible with a black top, it was hot as
hell in there after it sat in the sun. Once I caught on, I've had
light green once and tan several time and it's almost comfortable even
after sitting in the mid-summer sun.

So was my white car. So? See below.

Similarly a black steering wheel is hot enough to hurt one's hands
when the inside of the car is hot. No other color I've had is. And
the black seats would burn the inside of my thighs when I wore shorts,
but tan and white don't do that.

So do my "cream" colored leather seats. So? See below.

And my home, which may well not have enough insulation in the attic,
was too hot to go upstairs when I had a dark shingle roof, even with a
roof fan. . The new roof is medium brown and it's comfortable now
with just a fan in the bedroom (and the roof fan) . However I used
to use the heat from the attic to warm the upstairs in the late fall
and early spring. That doesn't work anymore, because it doesn't get
as hot up there.

Well, you do know that the sun emits energy in the visible range, right?

And the son of the owner of one of the two biggest department stores
in Indianapolis (Block's) built a house next to his parents on their
beautiful lot overlooking the White River.

Ah, because it was the White River, it was cool in the summer, right?

He had dark shingles
and 1 or 2 months later in the summer they were replaced with white
shingles. It was clear to me that dark shingles made it too hot
inside.

See above.

I was working on the bright shiny galvanized roof on my shed. It's was too
hot to rest my hands on. I should try and measure temp of shingles next to
it attaching garage. I got more cool or cold days in my climate, but my
insulation on the house part is sufficient to overcome roof temp.

Greg

On Sun, 21 Oct 2012 19:11:34 -0400, "
wrote:

On Sat, 20 Oct 2012 01:43:27 -0400, micky wrote:

On Fri, 19 Oct 2012 13:24:23 -0400, "
wrote:

On 19 Oct 2012 14:24:14 GMT, Han wrote:

"Stormin Mormon" wrote in
:

If a refrigerator is used outdoors, in the summer.
The condensor on the back, is black tubing. As
we know, black absorbs heat from the sun shine,
which makes the compressor work harder.

Of course, that condensor can be painted. Which
color paint is coolest in summer, and works best
to release the heat from the refrigerator? White, or
silver?

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org

The condensor is black because black radiates heat better. To make it
functioning that way, put an awning of some kind over the fridge to keep
solar radiation off of it.

"Black" in the visible range doesn't matter much at the far infrared
wavelengths the refrigerator will be operating at. It matters some in direct
sunlight because there is a significant component of sunlight in the visible
range (duh!). My point is that its "color" in visible light doesn't mean a
lot. The emissivity at the operating point matters.

White or silver doesn't make a difference, as
long as it is as opaque as can be. In addition, rig a small fan up so
there is additional cooling when the fridge is in cooling mode.

Again, color doesn't matter, as far as the operation of the refrigerator,
itself. If the object is to reflect visible sunlight, white is better.

How do you know that black paint doesn't radiate and absorb infrared
better too? Because it's not visible, you can't tell by looking but
you can by feeling.

You don't.

You don't know by looking but you can tell by feeling. In all the
cases below, white and light colors don't absorb or radiate heat like
black does.

That's the point. The color in visible light has little to do
with its emissivity at the (much) longer wavelengths. "White" paint might be
much better.

I don't think so, but maybe under some special laboratory conditions.
Can you show me any example from real life where that is true.

You just make light of all my examples below, but they are similar to
the refrigerator condensor in the original question. If you want
metal, just put a piece of white painted metal next to black painted
metal in the sun and you'll see the same thing.

I know that when I had a convertible with a black top, it was hot as
hell in there after it sat in the sun. Once I caught on, I've had
light green once and tan several time and it's almost comfortable even
after sitting in the mid-summer sun.

So was my white car. So? See below.

Similarly a black steering wheel is hot enough to hurt one's hands
when the inside of the car is hot. No other color I've had is. And
the black seats would burn the inside of my thighs when I wore shorts,
but tan and white don't do that.

So do my "cream" colored leather seats. So? See below.

And my home, which may well not have enough insulation in the attic,
was too hot to go upstairs when I had a dark shingle roof, even with a
roof fan. . The new roof is medium brown and it's comfortable now
with just a fan in the bedroom (and the roof fan) . However I used
to use the heat from the attic to warm the upstairs in the late fall
and early spring. That doesn't work anymore, because it doesn't get
as hot up there.

Well, you do know that the sun emits energy in the visible range, right?

What are you saying? That the sun doesn't emit IR? Not so. Or that
visible light causes heat? Of course it does, when it's absorbed by
something,, and that alone is one reason black things absor and
radiate more heat than white.

If he wanted to paint his awning whte, that would help a little.


And the son of the owner of one of the two biggest department stores
in Indianapolis (Block's) built a house next to his parents on their
beautiful lot overlooking the White River.

Ah, because it was the White River, it was cool in the summer, right?

He had dark shingles
and 1 or 2 months later in the summer they were replaced with white
shingles. It was clear to me that dark shingles made it too hot
inside.

See above.

On Fri, 19 Oct 2012 08:40:51 -0400, "Stormin Mormon"
wrote:

If a refrigerator is used outdoors, in the summer.
The condensor on the back, is black tubing. As
we know, black absorbs heat from the sun shine,
which makes the compressor work harder.

Of course, that condensor can be painted. Which
color paint is coolest in summer, and works best
to release the heat from the refrigerator? White, or
silver?

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
.


White

On Mon, 22 Oct 2012 03:35:00 -0400, micky wrote:

On Sun, 21 Oct 2012 19:11:34 -0400, "
wrote:

On Sat, 20 Oct 2012 01:43:27 -0400, micky wrote:

On Fri, 19 Oct 2012 13:24:23 -0400, "
wrote:

On 19 Oct 2012 14:24:14 GMT, Han wrote:

"Stormin Mormon" wrote in
:

If a refrigerator is used outdoors, in the summer.
The condensor on the back, is black tubing. As
we know, black absorbs heat from the sun shine,
which makes the compressor work harder.

Of course, that condensor can be painted. Which
color paint is coolest in summer, and works best
to release the heat from the refrigerator? White, or
silver?

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org

The condensor is black because black radiates heat better. To make it
functioning that way, put an awning of some kind over the fridge to keep
solar radiation off of it.

"Black" in the visible range doesn't matter much at the far infrared
wavelengths the refrigerator will be operating at. It matters some in direct
sunlight because there is a significant component of sunlight in the visible
range (duh!). My point is that its "color" in visible light doesn't mean a
lot. The emissivity at the operating point matters.

White or silver doesn't make a difference, as
long as it is as opaque as can be. In addition, rig a small fan up so
there is additional cooling when the fridge is in cooling mode.

Again, color doesn't matter, as far as the operation of the refrigerator,
itself. If the object is to reflect visible sunlight, white is better.

How do you know that black paint doesn't radiate and absorb infrared
better too? Because it's not visible, you can't tell by looking but
you can by feeling.

You don't.

You don't know by looking but you can tell by feeling.

No, you really can't. You can pull a piece of aluminum foil directly out of
the oven but don't try it with a cast iron pan.

In all the
cases below, white and light colors don't absorb or radiate heat like
black does.

Wrong. Visible color has nothing to do with it's performance in the infrared.

That's the point. The color in visible light has little to do
with its emissivity at the (much) longer wavelengths. "White" paint might be
much better.

I don't think so, but maybe under some special laboratory conditions.
Can you show me any example from real life where that is true.

I *KNOW* so. Some materials are transparent in the infrared and opaque in the
visible range, just like some materials are red, or yellow. What matters is
the emissivity at the wavelength(s) of the incident radiation.

You just make light of all my examples below, but they are similar to
the refrigerator condensor in the original question. If you want
metal, just put a piece of white painted metal next to black painted
metal in the sun and you'll see the same thing.

Other than the fact that the sun has a significant visible component, you're
wrong.

I know that when I had a convertible with a black top, it was hot as
hell in there after it sat in the sun. Once I caught on, I've had
light green once and tan several time and it's almost comfortable even
after sitting in the mid-summer sun.

So was my white car. So? See below.

Similarly a black steering wheel is hot enough to hurt one's hands
when the inside of the car is hot. No other color I've had is. And
the black seats would burn the inside of my thighs when I wore shorts,
but tan and white don't do that.

So do my "cream" colored leather seats. So? See below.

And my home, which may well not have enough insulation in the attic,
was too hot to go upstairs when I had a dark shingle roof, even with a
roof fan. . The new roof is medium brown and it's comfortable now
with just a fan in the bedroom (and the roof fan) . However I used
to use the heat from the attic to warm the upstairs in the late fall
and early spring. That doesn't work anymore, because it doesn't get
as hot up there.

Well, you do know that the sun emits energy in the visible range, right?

What are you saying?

I've only said it a dozen times now. Perhaps you can read it if I put it in
all CAPS?

WHAT MATTERS IS THE EMISSIVITY OF A MATERIAL AT THE WAVELENGTH(S) OF THE
INCIDENT RADIATION.

That the sun doesn't emit IR? Not so.

Idiot...

Or that visible light causes heat?

....doubled down.

Of course it does, when it's absorbed by
something,, and that alone is one reason black things absor and
radiate more heat than white.

WRONG, unless they're incandescent!

If he wanted to paint his awning whte, that would help a little.

Some, because there is visible light in sunlight, but I've already said that.
Perhaps you should READ.

And the son of the owner of one of the two biggest department stores
in Indianapolis (Block's) built a house next to his parents on their
beautiful lot overlooking the White River.

Ah, because it was the White River, it was cool in the summer, right?

He had dark shingles
and 1 or 2 months later in the summer they were replaced with white
shingles. It was clear to me that dark shingles made it too hot
inside.

See above.

On Sun, 21 Oct 2012 19:41:54 -0700, "Malcom \"Mal\" Reynolds"
wrote:

In article ,
" wrote:

On Fri, 19 Oct 2012 22:26:01 -0700 (PDT), Larry Fishel
wrote:

On Friday, October 19, 2012 6:26:22 PM UTC-4, Malcom Mal Reynolds wrote:
okay, then there's a reason that electronics use it

Yes, but that's still irrelevant. It's used in electronics because it
conducts electricity well and resists corrosion, not because of heat
conduction (or at least it's a minor factor).

It can also be vapor deposited to form a transparent, electrically
conductive,
surface. This can be useful for heating a glass substrate (think: clearing
fog).

or on a parabolic reflector (not transparent) to gather more efficiently
especially at low light levels

Gold? WRONG again.

for those inclined to make such a solar water heater/cooker

Out of gold? WRONG! Use aluminum or silver.

On Mon, 22 Oct 2012 09:29:38 -0400, "
wrote:

On Mon, 22 Oct 2012 03:35:00 -0400, micky wrote:

On Sun, 21 Oct 2012 19:11:34 -0400, "
wrote:

On Sat, 20 Oct 2012 01:43:27 -0400, micky wrote:

On Fri, 19 Oct 2012 13:24:23 -0400, "
wrote:

On 19 Oct 2012 14:24:14 GMT, Han wrote:

"Stormin Mormon" wrote in
:

If a refrigerator is used outdoors, in the summer.
The condensor on the back, is black tubing. As
we know, black absorbs heat from the sun shine,
which makes the compressor work harder.

Of course, that condensor can be painted. Which
color paint is coolest in summer, and works best
to release the heat from the refrigerator? White, or
silver?

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org

The condensor is black because black radiates heat better. To make it
functioning that way, put an awning of some kind over the fridge to keep
solar radiation off of it.

"Black" in the visible range doesn't matter much at the far infrared
wavelengths the refrigerator will be operating at. It matters some in direct
sunlight because there is a significant component of sunlight in the visible
range (duh!). My point is that its "color" in visible light doesn't mean a
lot. The emissivity at the operating point matters.

White or silver doesn't make a difference, as
long as it is as opaque as can be. In addition, rig a small fan up so
there is additional cooling when the fridge is in cooling mode.

Again, color doesn't matter, as far as the operation of the refrigerator,
itself. If the object is to reflect visible sunlight, white is better.

How do you know that black paint doesn't radiate and absorb infrared
better too? Because it's not visible, you can't tell by looking but
you can by feeling.

You don't.

You don't know by looking but you can tell by feeling.

No, you really can't. You can pull a piece of aluminum foil directly out of
the oven but don't try it with a cast iron pan.

You're dragging in thermal capacity Everything before this was about
two things of the same nature of different colors. Not something that
is 3/8" thick with something that 1/100" of an inch thick.

In all the
cases below, white and light colors don't absorb or radiate heat like
black does.

Wrong. Visible color has nothing to do with it's performance in the infrared.

That doesn't contradict what I said. I didn't compare color and IR
but the effect of black on both.

That's the point. The color in visible light has little to do
with its emissivity at the (much) longer wavelengths. "White" paint might be
much better.

I don't think so, but maybe under some special laboratory conditions.
Can you show me any example from real life where that is true.

I *KNOW* so. Some materials are transparent in the infrared and opaque in the
visible range, just like some materials are red, or yellow. What matters is
the emissivity at the wavelength(s) of the incident radiation.

You just make light of all my examples below, but they are similar to
the refrigerator condensor in the original question. If you want
metal, just put a piece of white painted metal next to black painted
metal in the sun and you'll see the same thing.

Other than the fact that the sun has a significant visible component, you're
wrong.

I asked for an examples from real life. and you don't even give an
example from a laboratory.

I know that when I had a convertible with a black top, it was hot as
hell in there after it sat in the sun. Once I caught on, I've had
light green once and tan several time and it's almost comfortable even
after sitting in the mid-summer sun.

So was my white car. So? See below.

Similarly a black steering wheel is hot enough to hurt one's hands
when the inside of the car is hot. No other color I've had is. And
the black seats would burn the inside of my thighs when I wore shorts,
but tan and white don't do that.

So do my "cream" colored leather seats. So? See below.

And my home, which may well not have enough insulation in the attic,
was too hot to go upstairs when I had a dark shingle roof, even with a
roof fan. . The new roof is medium brown and it's comfortable now
with just a fan in the bedroom (and the roof fan) . However I used
to use the heat from the attic to warm the upstairs in the late fall
and early spring. That doesn't work anymore, because it doesn't get
as hot up there.

Well, you do know that the sun emits energy in the visible range, right?

What are you saying?

I've only said it a dozen times now. Perhaps you can read it if I put it in
all CAPS?

WHAT MATTERS IS THE EMISSIVITY OF A MATERIAL AT THE WAVELENGTH(S) OF THE
INCIDENT RADIATION.

This is not what you were saying in the sentence I asked about. That
read. "Well, you do know that the sun emits energy in the visible
range, right?" I presume you were trying to make one of the two
possible points I could think of, but you don't reply civilly to
either of my choices.

That the sun doesn't emit IR? Not so.

Idiot...

Or that visible light causes heat?

...doubled down.

You separated the line above from what follows. Here it is restored:
Or that visible light causes heat?
Of course it does, when it's absorbed by
something,, and that alone is one reason black things absor and
radiate more heat than white.

WRONG, unless they're incandescent!

"glowing or white with heat. " No. It doesnt' require that.

If he wanted to paint his awning whte, that would help a little.

Some, because there is visible light in sunlight, but I've already said that.
Perhaps you should READ.

And the son of the owner of one of the two biggest department stores
in Indianapolis (Block's) built a house next to his parents on their
beautiful lot overlooking the White River.

Ah, because it was the White River, it was cool in the summer, right?

He had dark shingles
and 1 or 2 months later in the summer they were replaced with white
shingles. It was clear to me that dark shingles made it too hot
inside.

See above.

On Tue, 23 Oct 2012 08:32:07 -0400, micky wrote:

On Mon, 22 Oct 2012 09:29:38 -0400, "
wrote:

On Mon, 22 Oct 2012 03:35:00 -0400, micky wrote:

On Sun, 21 Oct 2012 19:11:34 -0400, "
wrote:

On Sat, 20 Oct 2012 01:43:27 -0400, micky wrote:

On Fri, 19 Oct 2012 13:24:23 -0400, "
wrote:

On 19 Oct 2012 14:24:14 GMT, Han wrote:

"Stormin Mormon" wrote in
:

If a refrigerator is used outdoors, in the summer.
The condensor on the back, is black tubing. As
we know, black absorbs heat from the sun shine,
which makes the compressor work harder.

Of course, that condensor can be painted. Which
color paint is coolest in summer, and works best
to release the heat from the refrigerator? White, or
silver?

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org

The condensor is black because black radiates heat better. To make it
functioning that way, put an awning of some kind over the fridge to keep
solar radiation off of it.

"Black" in the visible range doesn't matter much at the far infrared
wavelengths the refrigerator will be operating at. It matters some in direct
sunlight because there is a significant component of sunlight in the visible
range (duh!). My point is that its "color" in visible light doesn't mean a
lot. The emissivity at the operating point matters.

White or silver doesn't make a difference, as
long as it is as opaque as can be. In addition, rig a small fan up so
there is additional cooling when the fridge is in cooling mode.

Again, color doesn't matter, as far as the operation of the refrigerator,
itself. If the object is to reflect visible sunlight, white is better.

How do you know that black paint doesn't radiate and absorb infrared
better too? Because it's not visible, you can't tell by looking but
you can by feeling.

You don't.

You don't know by looking but you can tell by feeling.

No, you really can't. You can pull a piece of aluminum foil directly out of
the oven but don't try it with a cast iron pan.

You're dragging in thermal capacity Everything before this was about
two things of the same nature of different colors. Not something that
is 3/8" thick with something that 1/100" of an inch thick.

No, *you* are dragging it in by saying that your senses can determine this
stuff. They can't.

In all the
cases below, white and light colors don't absorb or radiate heat like
black does.

Wrong. Visible color has nothing to do with it's performance in the infrared.

That doesn't contradict what I said. I didn't compare color and IR
but the effect of black on both.

"Black" is a color which you can only sense in the visible range. You're not
making any sense.

That's the point. The color in visible light has little to do
with its emissivity at the (much) longer wavelengths. "White" paint might be
much better.

I don't think so, but maybe under some special laboratory conditions.
Can you show me any example from real life where that is true.

I *KNOW* so. Some materials are transparent in the infrared and opaque in the
visible range, just like some materials are red, or yellow. What matters is
the emissivity at the wavelength(s) of the incident radiation.

You just make light of all my examples below, but they are similar to
the refrigerator condensor in the original question. If you want
metal, just put a piece of white painted metal next to black painted
metal in the sun and you'll see the same thing.

Other than the fact that the sun has a significant visible component, you're
wrong.

I asked for an examples from real life. and you don't even give an
example from a laboratory.

Good grief! There are examples everywhere. Have you ever seen colored glass?
It is transparent at some wavelengths but not (absorbs at) others. That's why
it's colored. The same thing happens at infrared vs. visible. The lens on
your TV remote control is opaque in the visible range but is transparent at
infrared. There are millions of such examples. THINK!


I know that when I had a convertible with a black top, it was hot as
hell in there after it sat in the sun. Once I caught on, I've had
light green once and tan several time and it's almost comfortable even
after sitting in the mid-summer sun.

So was my white car. So? See below.

Similarly a black steering wheel is hot enough to hurt one's hands
when the inside of the car is hot. No other color I've had is. And
the black seats would burn the inside of my thighs when I wore shorts,
but tan and white don't do that.

So do my "cream" colored leather seats. So? See below.

And my home, which may well not have enough insulation in the attic,
was too hot to go upstairs when I had a dark shingle roof, even with a
roof fan. . The new roof is medium brown and it's comfortable now
with just a fan in the bedroom (and the roof fan) . However I used
to use the heat from the attic to warm the upstairs in the late fall
and early spring. That doesn't work anymore, because it doesn't get
as hot up there.

Well, you do know that the sun emits energy in the visible range, right?

What are you saying?

I've only said it a dozen times now. Perhaps you can read it if I put it in
all CAPS?

WHAT MATTERS IS THE EMISSIVITY OF A MATERIAL AT THE WAVELENGTH(S) OF THE
INCIDENT RADIATION.

This is not what you were saying in the sentence I asked about. That
read. "Well, you do know that the sun emits energy in the visible
range, right?" I presume you were trying to make one of the two
possible points I could think of, but you don't reply civilly to
either of my choices.

There are two points. In sunlight, the color does make some difference
because the sun emits radiation in the visible range. HOWEVER, the 'fridge's
radiator does NOT incandesce so its color is meaningless. It could be any
"color". I suppose you've seen anodized aluminum heat sinks? A blue one is no
less efficient than a black one (IIRC, blue anodizing is actually better).

That the sun doesn't emit IR? Not so.

Idiot...

Or that visible light causes heat?

...doubled down.

You separated the line above from what follows. Here it is restored:
Or that visible light causes heat?
Of course it does, when it's absorbed by
something,, and that alone is one reason black things absor and
radiate more heat than white.

WRONG, unless they're incandescent!

"glowing or white with heat. " No. It doesnt' require that.

You're as wrong as you can be. The "color" only matters at the wavelengths
being radiated. For a 'fridge's coils,that's *NOT* in the visible range.

If he wanted to paint his awning whte, that would help a little.

Some, because there is visible light in sunlight, but I've already said that.
Perhaps you should READ.

And the son of the owner of one of the two biggest department stores
in Indianapolis (Block's) built a house next to his parents on their
beautiful lot overlooking the White River.

Ah, because it was the White River, it was cool in the summer, right?

He had dark shingles
and 1 or 2 months later in the summer they were replaced with white
shingles. It was clear to me that dark shingles made it too hot
inside.

See above.

On Oct 23, 9:04*am, "
wrote:
On Tue, 23 Oct 2012 08:32:07 -0400, micky wrote:
On Mon, 22 Oct 2012 09:29:38 -0400, "
wrote:

On Mon, 22 Oct 2012 03:35:00 -0400, micky wrote:

On Sun, 21 Oct 2012 19:11:34 -0400, "
wrote:

On Sat, 20 Oct 2012 01:43:27 -0400, micky wrote:

On Fri, 19 Oct 2012 13:24:23 -0400, "
wrote:

On 19 Oct 2012 14:24:14 GMT, Han wrote:

"Stormin Mormon" wrote in
:

If a refrigerator is used outdoors, in the summer.
The condensor on the back, is black tubing. As
we know, black absorbs heat from the sun shine,
which makes the compressor work harder.

Of course, that condensor can be painted. Which
color paint is coolest in summer, and works best
to release the heat from the refrigerator? White, or
silver?

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
*www.lds.org

The condensor is black because black radiates heat better. *To make it
functioning that way, put an awning of some kind over the fridge to keep
solar radiation off of it.

"Black" in the visible range doesn't matter much at the far infrared
wavelengths the refrigerator will be operating at. *It matters some in direct
sunlight because there is a significant component of sunlight in the visible
range (duh!). *My point is that its "color" in visible light doesn't mean a
lot. *The emissivity at the operating point matters.

White or silver doesn't make a difference, as
long as it is as opaque as can be. *In addition, rig a small fan up so
there is additional cooling when the fridge is in cooling mode.

Again, color doesn't matter, as far as the operation of the refrigerator,
itself. *If the object is to reflect visible sunlight, white is better.

How do you know that black paint doesn't radiate and absorb infrared
better too? *Because it's not visible, you can't tell by looking but
you can by feeling.

You don't.

You don't know by looking but you can tell by feeling.

No, you really can't. *You can pull a piece of aluminum foil directly out of
the oven but don't try it with a cast iron pan.

You're dragging in thermal capacity *Everything before this was about
two things of the same nature of different colors. *Not something that
is 3/8" thick with something that 1/100" of an inch thick.

No, *you* are dragging it in by saying that your senses can determine this
stuff. *They can't.

In all the
cases below, white and light colors don't absorb or radiate heat like
black does.

Wrong. *Visible color has nothing to do with it's performance in the infrared.

That doesn't contradict what I said. *I didn't compare color and IR
but the effect of black on both.

"Black" is a color which you can only sense in the visible range. *You're not
making any sense.





That's the point. *The color in visible light has little to do
with its emissivity at the (much) longer wavelengths. *"White" paint might be
much better.

I don't think so, but maybe under some special laboratory conditions.
Can you show me any example from real life where that is true.

I *KNOW* so. *Some materials are transparent in the infrared and opaque in the
visible range, just like some materials are red, or yellow. *What matters is
the emissivity at the wavelength(s) of the incident radiation.

You just make light of all my examples below, but they are similar to
the refrigerator condensor in the original question. * If you want
metal, just put a piece of white painted metal next to black painted
metal in the sun and you'll see the same thing.

Other than the fact that the sun has a significant visible component, you're
wrong.

I asked for an examples from real life. *and you don't even give an
example from a laboratory.

Good grief! *There are examples everywhere. *Have you ever seen colored glass?
It is transparent at some wavelengths but not (absorbs at) others. *That's why
it's colored. *The same thing happens at infrared vs. visible. The lens on
your TV remote control is opaque in the visible range but is transparent at
infrared. *There are millions of such examples. *THINK!





I know that when I had a convertible with a black top, it was hot as
hell in there after it sat in the sun. * *Once I caught on, I've had
light green once and tan several time and it's almost comfortable even
after sitting in the mid-summer sun.

So was my white car. *So? *See below.

Similarly a black steering wheel is hot enough to hurt one's hands
when the inside of the car is hot. *No other color I've had is. * And
the black seats would burn the inside of my thighs when I wore shorts,
but tan and white don't do that.

So do my "cream" colored leather seats. *So? *See below.

And my home, which may well not have enough insulation in the attic,
was too hot to go upstairs when I had a dark shingle roof, even with a
roof fan. . *The new roof is medium brown and it's comfortable now
with just a fan in the bedroom (and the roof fan) . * *However I used
to use the heat from the attic to warm the upstairs in the late fall
and early spring. *That doesn't work anymore, because it doesn't get
as hot up there.

Well, you do know that the sun emits energy in the visible range, right?

What are you saying?

I've only said it a dozen times now. *Perhaps you can read it if I put it in
all CAPS?

WHAT MATTERS IS THE EMISSIVITY OF A MATERIAL AT THE WAVELENGTH(S) OF THE
INCIDENT RADIATION.

This is not what you were saying in the sentence I asked about. That
read. "Well, you do know that the sun emits energy in the visible
range, right?" *I presume you were trying to make one of the two
possible points I could think of, but you don't reply civilly to
either of my choices.

There are two points. *In sunlight, the color does make some difference
because the sun emits radiation in the visible range. *HOWEVER, the 'fridge's
radiator does NOT incandesce so its color is meaningless. *It could be any
"color". *I suppose you've seen anodized aluminum heat sinks? A blue one is no
less efficient than a black one (IIRC, blue anodizing is actually better)..





That the sun doesn't emit IR? *Not so.

Idiot...

Or that visible light causes heat?

...doubled down.

You separated the line above from what follows. *Here it is restored:
Or that visible light causes heat?
Of course it does, when it's absorbed by
something,, and that alone is one reason black things absor and
radiate more heat than white.

WRONG, unless they're incandescent!

"glowing or white with heat. " *No. *It doesnt' require that.

You're as wrong as you can be. The "color" only matters at the wavelengths
being radiated. *For a 'fridge's coils,that's *NOT* in the visible range.



If the color of a fridges coils exposed to the sun doesn't
matter, then explain how a white roof results in a cooler
house than a black roof.

On Tue, 23 Oct 2012 08:00:39 -0700 (PDT), "
wrote:

On Oct 23, 9:04*am, "
wrote:
On Tue, 23 Oct 2012 08:32:07 -0400, micky wrote:
On Mon, 22 Oct 2012 09:29:38 -0400, "
wrote:

On Mon, 22 Oct 2012 03:35:00 -0400, micky wrote:

On Sun, 21 Oct 2012 19:11:34 -0400, "
wrote:

On Sat, 20 Oct 2012 01:43:27 -0400, micky wrote:

On Fri, 19 Oct 2012 13:24:23 -0400, "
wrote:

On 19 Oct 2012 14:24:14 GMT, Han wrote:

"Stormin Mormon" wrote in
:

If a refrigerator is used outdoors, in the summer.
The condensor on the back, is black tubing. As
we know, black absorbs heat from the sun shine,
which makes the compressor work harder.

Of course, that condensor can be painted. Which
color paint is coolest in summer, and works best
to release the heat from the refrigerator? White, or
silver?

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
*www.lds.org

The condensor is black because black radiates heat better. *To make it
functioning that way, put an awning of some kind over the fridge to keep
solar radiation off of it.

"Black" in the visible range doesn't matter much at the far infrared
wavelengths the refrigerator will be operating at. *It matters some in direct
sunlight because there is a significant component of sunlight in the visible
range (duh!). *My point is that its "color" in visible light doesn't mean a
lot. *The emissivity at the operating point matters.

White or silver doesn't make a difference, as
long as it is as opaque as can be. *In addition, rig a small fan up so
there is additional cooling when the fridge is in cooling mode.

Again, color doesn't matter, as far as the operation of the refrigerator,
itself. *If the object is to reflect visible sunlight, white is better.

How do you know that black paint doesn't radiate and absorb infrared
better too? *Because it's not visible, you can't tell by looking but
you can by feeling.

You don't.

You don't know by looking but you can tell by feeling.

No, you really can't. *You can pull a piece of aluminum foil directly out of
the oven but don't try it with a cast iron pan.

You're dragging in thermal capacity *Everything before this was about
two things of the same nature of different colors. *Not something that
is 3/8" thick with something that 1/100" of an inch thick.

No, *you* are dragging it in by saying that your senses can determine this
stuff. *They can't.

In all the
cases below, white and light colors don't absorb or radiate heat like
black does.

Wrong. *Visible color has nothing to do with it's performance in the infrared.

That doesn't contradict what I said. *I didn't compare color and IR
but the effect of black on both.

"Black" is a color which you can only sense in the visible range. *You're not
making any sense.





That's the point. *The color in visible light has little to do
with its emissivity at the (much) longer wavelengths. *"White" paint might be
much better.

I don't think so, but maybe under some special laboratory conditions.
Can you show me any example from real life where that is true.

I *KNOW* so. *Some materials are transparent in the infrared and opaque in the
visible range, just like some materials are red, or yellow. *What matters is
the emissivity at the wavelength(s) of the incident radiation.

You just make light of all my examples below, but they are similar to
the refrigerator condensor in the original question. * If you want
metal, just put a piece of white painted metal next to black painted
metal in the sun and you'll see the same thing.

Other than the fact that the sun has a significant visible component, you're
wrong.

I asked for an examples from real life. *and you don't even give an
example from a laboratory.

Good grief! *There are examples everywhere. *Have you ever seen colored glass?
It is transparent at some wavelengths but not (absorbs at) others. *That's why
it's colored. *The same thing happens at infrared vs. visible. The lens on
your TV remote control is opaque in the visible range but is transparent at
infrared. *There are millions of such examples. *THINK!





I know that when I had a convertible with a black top, it was hot as
hell in there after it sat in the sun. * *Once I caught on, I've had
light green once and tan several time and it's almost comfortable even
after sitting in the mid-summer sun.

So was my white car. *So? *See below.

Similarly a black steering wheel is hot enough to hurt one's hands
when the inside of the car is hot. *No other color I've had is. * And
the black seats would burn the inside of my thighs when I wore shorts,
but tan and white don't do that.

So do my "cream" colored leather seats. *So? *See below.

And my home, which may well not have enough insulation in the attic,
was too hot to go upstairs when I had a dark shingle roof, even with a
roof fan. . *The new roof is medium brown and it's comfortable now
with just a fan in the bedroom (and the roof fan) . * *However I used
to use the heat from the attic to warm the upstairs in the late fall
and early spring. *That doesn't work anymore, because it doesn't get
as hot up there.

Well, you do know that the sun emits energy in the visible range, right?

What are you saying?

I've only said it a dozen times now. *Perhaps you can read it if I put it in
all CAPS?

WHAT MATTERS IS THE EMISSIVITY OF A MATERIAL AT THE WAVELENGTH(S) OF THE
INCIDENT RADIATION.

This is not what you were saying in the sentence I asked about. That
read. "Well, you do know that the sun emits energy in the visible
range, right?" *I presume you were trying to make one of the two
possible points I could think of, but you don't reply civilly to
either of my choices.

There are two points. *In sunlight, the color does make some difference
because the sun emits radiation in the visible range. *HOWEVER, the 'fridge's
radiator does NOT incandesce so its color is meaningless. *It could be any
"color". *I suppose you've seen anodized aluminum heat sinks? A blue one is no
less efficient than a black one (IIRC, blue anodizing is actually better).





That the sun doesn't emit IR? *Not so.

Idiot...

Or that visible light causes heat?

...doubled down.

You separated the line above from what follows. *Here it is restored:
Or that visible light causes heat?
Of course it does, when it's absorbed by
something,, and that alone is one reason black things absor and
radiate more heat than white.

WRONG, unless they're incandescent!

"glowing or white with heat. " *No. *It doesnt' require that.

You're as wrong as you can be. The "color" only matters at the wavelengths
being radiated. *For a 'fridge's coils,that's *NOT* in the visible range.



If the color of a fridges coils exposed to the sun doesn't
matter, then explain how a white roof results in a cooler
house than a black roof.

There are two conversations going on here. I've already said that the sun has
a visible component, many times. The reason that the coils in the back of a
refrigerator are black is *NOT* because what we see as black is a better
radiator.

On Oct 23, 12:44*pm, "
wrote:
On Tue, 23 Oct 2012 08:00:39 -0700 (PDT), "





wrote:
On Oct 23, 9:04*am, "
wrote:
On Tue, 23 Oct 2012 08:32:07 -0400, micky wrote:
On Mon, 22 Oct 2012 09:29:38 -0400, "
wrote:

On Mon, 22 Oct 2012 03:35:00 -0400, micky wrote:

On Sun, 21 Oct 2012 19:11:34 -0400, "
wrote:

On Sat, 20 Oct 2012 01:43:27 -0400, micky wrote:

On Fri, 19 Oct 2012 13:24:23 -0400, "
wrote:

On 19 Oct 2012 14:24:14 GMT, Han wrote:

"Stormin Mormon" wrote in
:

If a refrigerator is used outdoors, in the summer.
The condensor on the back, is black tubing. As
we know, black absorbs heat from the sun shine,
which makes the compressor work harder.

Of course, that condensor can be painted. Which
color paint is coolest in summer, and works best
to release the heat from the refrigerator? White, or
silver?

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
*www.lds.org

The condensor is black because black radiates heat better. *To make it
functioning that way, put an awning of some kind over the fridge to keep
solar radiation off of it.

"Black" in the visible range doesn't matter much at the far infrared
wavelengths the refrigerator will be operating at. *It matters some in direct
sunlight because there is a significant component of sunlight in the visible
range (duh!). *My point is that its "color" in visible light doesn't mean a
lot. *The emissivity at the operating point matters.

White or silver doesn't make a difference, as
long as it is as opaque as can be. *In addition, rig a small fan up so
there is additional cooling when the fridge is in cooling mode.

Again, color doesn't matter, as far as the operation of the refrigerator,
itself. *If the object is to reflect visible sunlight, white is better.

How do you know that black paint doesn't radiate and absorb infrared
better too? *Because it's not visible, you can't tell by looking but
you can by feeling.

You don't.

You don't know by looking but you can tell by feeling.

No, you really can't. *You can pull a piece of aluminum foil directly out of
the oven but don't try it with a cast iron pan.

You're dragging in thermal capacity *Everything before this was about
two things of the same nature of different colors. *Not something that
is 3/8" thick with something that 1/100" of an inch thick.

No, *you* are dragging it in by saying that your senses can determine this
stuff. *They can't.

In all the
cases below, white and light colors don't absorb or radiate heat like
black does.

Wrong. *Visible color has nothing to do with it's performance in the infrared.

That doesn't contradict what I said. *I didn't compare color and IR
but the effect of black on both.

"Black" is a color which you can only sense in the visible range. *You're not
making any sense.

That's the point. *The color in visible light has little to do
with its emissivity at the (much) longer wavelengths. *"White" paint might be
much better.

I don't think so, but maybe under some special laboratory conditions.
Can you show me any example from real life where that is true.

I *KNOW* so. *Some materials are transparent in the infrared and opaque in the
visible range, just like some materials are red, or yellow. *What matters is
the emissivity at the wavelength(s) of the incident radiation.

You just make light of all my examples below, but they are similar to
the refrigerator condensor in the original question. * If you want
metal, just put a piece of white painted metal next to black painted
metal in the sun and you'll see the same thing.

Other than the fact that the sun has a significant visible component, you're
wrong.

I asked for an examples from real life. *and you don't even give an
example from a laboratory.

Good grief! *There are examples everywhere. *Have you ever seen colored glass?
It is transparent at some wavelengths but not (absorbs at) others. *That's why
it's colored. *The same thing happens at infrared vs. visible. The lens on
your TV remote control is opaque in the visible range but is transparent at
infrared. *There are millions of such examples. *THINK!

I know that when I had a convertible with a black top, it was hot as
hell in there after it sat in the sun. * *Once I caught on, I've had
light green once and tan several time and it's almost comfortable even
after sitting in the mid-summer sun.

So was my white car. *So? *See below.

Similarly a black steering wheel is hot enough to hurt one's hands
when the inside of the car is hot. *No other color I've had is. * And
the black seats would burn the inside of my thighs when I wore shorts,
but tan and white don't do that.

So do my "cream" colored leather seats. *So? *See below.

And my home, which may well not have enough insulation in the attic,
was too hot to go upstairs when I had a dark shingle roof, even with a
roof fan. . *The new roof is medium brown and it's comfortable now
with just a fan in the bedroom (and the roof fan) . * *However I used
to use the heat from the attic to warm the upstairs in the late fall
and early spring. *That doesn't work anymore, because it doesn't get
as hot up there.

Well, you do know that the sun emits energy in the visible range, right?

What are you saying?

I've only said it a dozen times now. *Perhaps you can read it if I put it in
all CAPS?

WHAT MATTERS IS THE EMISSIVITY OF A MATERIAL AT THE WAVELENGTH(S) OF THE
INCIDENT RADIATION.

This is not what you were saying in the sentence I asked about. That
read. "Well, you do know that the sun emits energy in the visible
range, right?" *I presume you were trying to make one of the two
possible points I could think of, but you don't reply civilly to
either of my choices.

There are two points. *In sunlight, the color does make some difference
because the sun emits radiation in the visible range. *HOWEVER, the 'fridge's
radiator does NOT incandesce so its color is meaningless. *It could be any
"color". *I suppose you've seen anodized aluminum heat sinks? A blue one is no
less efficient than a black one (IIRC, blue anodizing is actually better).

That the sun doesn't emit IR? *Not so.

Idiot...

Or that visible light causes heat?

...doubled down.

You separated the line above from what follows. *Here it is restored:
Or that visible light causes heat?
Of course it does, when it's absorbed by
something,, and that alone is one reason black things absor and
radiate more heat than white.

WRONG, unless they're incandescent!

"glowing or white with heat. " *No. *It doesnt' require that.

You're as wrong as you can be. The "color" only matters at the wavelengths
being radiated. *For a 'fridge's coils,that's *NOT* in the visible range.

If the color of a fridges coils exposed to the sun doesn't
matter, then explain how a white roof results in a cooler
house than a black roof.

There are two conversations going on here. *I've already said that the sun has
a visible component, many times. *The reason that the coils in the back of a
refrigerator are black is *NOT* because what we see as black is a better
radiator.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Then all the experts who agree that home radiators, for example,
radiate more heat when painted black instead of white are wrong?
Do you agree or disagree that a home radiator painted black will
radiate more heat than one painted white? And if you agree, then
how can it not be because black is a better radiator?

On Tue, 23 Oct 2012 10:23:16 -0700 (PDT), "
wrote:

On Oct 23, 12:44*pm, "
wrote:
On Tue, 23 Oct 2012 08:00:39 -0700 (PDT), "





wrote:
On Oct 23, 9:04*am, "
wrote:
On Tue, 23 Oct 2012 08:32:07 -0400, micky wrote:
On Mon, 22 Oct 2012 09:29:38 -0400, "
wrote:

On Mon, 22 Oct 2012 03:35:00 -0400, micky wrote:

On Sun, 21 Oct 2012 19:11:34 -0400, "
wrote:

On Sat, 20 Oct 2012 01:43:27 -0400, micky wrote:

On Fri, 19 Oct 2012 13:24:23 -0400, "
wrote:

On 19 Oct 2012 14:24:14 GMT, Han wrote:

"Stormin Mormon" wrote in
:

If a refrigerator is used outdoors, in the summer.
The condensor on the back, is black tubing. As
we know, black absorbs heat from the sun shine,
which makes the compressor work harder.

Of course, that condensor can be painted. Which
color paint is coolest in summer, and works best
to release the heat from the refrigerator? White, or
silver?

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
*www.lds.org

The condensor is black because black radiates heat better. *To make it
functioning that way, put an awning of some kind over the fridge to keep
solar radiation off of it.

"Black" in the visible range doesn't matter much at the far infrared
wavelengths the refrigerator will be operating at. *It matters some in direct
sunlight because there is a significant component of sunlight in the visible
range (duh!). *My point is that its "color" in visible light doesn't mean a
lot. *The emissivity at the operating point matters.

White or silver doesn't make a difference, as
long as it is as opaque as can be. *In addition, rig a small fan up so
there is additional cooling when the fridge is in cooling mode.

Again, color doesn't matter, as far as the operation of the refrigerator,
itself. *If the object is to reflect visible sunlight, white is better.

How do you know that black paint doesn't radiate and absorb infrared
better too? *Because it's not visible, you can't tell by looking but
you can by feeling.

You don't.

You don't know by looking but you can tell by feeling.

No, you really can't. *You can pull a piece of aluminum foil directly out of
the oven but don't try it with a cast iron pan.

You're dragging in thermal capacity *Everything before this was about
two things of the same nature of different colors. *Not something that
is 3/8" thick with something that 1/100" of an inch thick.

No, *you* are dragging it in by saying that your senses can determine this
stuff. *They can't.

In all the
cases below, white and light colors don't absorb or radiate heat like
black does.

Wrong. *Visible color has nothing to do with it's performance in the infrared.

That doesn't contradict what I said. *I didn't compare color and IR
but the effect of black on both.

"Black" is a color which you can only sense in the visible range. *You're not
making any sense.

That's the point. *The color in visible light has little to do
with its emissivity at the (much) longer wavelengths. *"White" paint might be
much better.

I don't think so, but maybe under some special laboratory conditions.
Can you show me any example from real life where that is true.

I *KNOW* so. *Some materials are transparent in the infrared and opaque in the
visible range, just like some materials are red, or yellow. *What matters is
the emissivity at the wavelength(s) of the incident radiation.

You just make light of all my examples below, but they are similar to
the refrigerator condensor in the original question. * If you want
metal, just put a piece of white painted metal next to black painted
metal in the sun and you'll see the same thing.

Other than the fact that the sun has a significant visible component, you're
wrong.

I asked for an examples from real life. *and you don't even give an
example from a laboratory.

Good grief! *There are examples everywhere. *Have you ever seen colored glass?
It is transparent at some wavelengths but not (absorbs at) others. *That's why
it's colored. *The same thing happens at infrared vs. visible. The lens on
your TV remote control is opaque in the visible range but is transparent at
infrared. *There are millions of such examples. *THINK!

I know that when I had a convertible with a black top, it was hot as
hell in there after it sat in the sun. * *Once I caught on, I've had
light green once and tan several time and it's almost comfortable even
after sitting in the mid-summer sun.

So was my white car. *So? *See below.

Similarly a black steering wheel is hot enough to hurt one's hands
when the inside of the car is hot. *No other color I've had is. * And
the black seats would burn the inside of my thighs when I wore shorts,
but tan and white don't do that.

So do my "cream" colored leather seats. *So? *See below.

And my home, which may well not have enough insulation in the attic,
was too hot to go upstairs when I had a dark shingle roof, even with a
roof fan. . *The new roof is medium brown and it's comfortable now
with just a fan in the bedroom (and the roof fan) . * *However I used
to use the heat from the attic to warm the upstairs in the late fall
and early spring. *That doesn't work anymore, because it doesn't get
as hot up there.

Well, you do know that the sun emits energy in the visible range, right?

What are you saying?

I've only said it a dozen times now. *Perhaps you can read it if I put it in
all CAPS?

WHAT MATTERS IS THE EMISSIVITY OF A MATERIAL AT THE WAVELENGTH(S) OF THE
INCIDENT RADIATION.

This is not what you were saying in the sentence I asked about. That
read. "Well, you do know that the sun emits energy in the visible
range, right?" *I presume you were trying to make one of the two
possible points I could think of, but you don't reply civilly to
either of my choices.

There are two points. *In sunlight, the color does make some difference
because the sun emits radiation in the visible range. *HOWEVER, the 'fridge's
radiator does NOT incandesce so its color is meaningless. *It could be any
"color". *I suppose you've seen anodized aluminum heat sinks? A blue one is no
less efficient than a black one (IIRC, blue anodizing is actually better).

That the sun doesn't emit IR? *Not so.

Idiot...

Or that visible light causes heat?

...doubled down.

You separated the line above from what follows. *Here it is restored:
Or that visible light causes heat?
Of course it does, when it's absorbed by
something,, and that alone is one reason black things absor and
radiate more heat than white.

WRONG, unless they're incandescent!

"glowing or white with heat. " *No. *It doesnt' require that.

You're as wrong as you can be. The "color" only matters at the wavelengths
being radiated. *For a 'fridge's coils,that's *NOT* in the visible range.

If the color of a fridges coils exposed to the sun doesn't
matter, then explain how a white roof results in a cooler
house than a black roof.

There are two conversations going on here. *I've already said that the sun has
a visible component, many times. *The reason that the coils in the back of a
refrigerator are black is *NOT* because what we see as black is a better
radiator.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Then all the experts who agree that home radiators, for example,
radiate more heat when painted black instead of white are wrong?

Certainly. The performance in the visible range is *no* guarantee of the
performance outside the visible range.

Do you agree or disagree that a home radiator painted black will
radiate more heat than one painted white?

Disagree, as stated. It doesn't matter a whit what it's performance is in
visible light.

And if you agree, then
how can it not be because black is a better radiator?

Bad assumption = faulty conclusion, as usual.

" wrote:
On Tue, 23 Oct 2012 10:23:16 -0700 (PDT), "
wrote:

On Oct 23, 12:44 pm, "
wrote:
On Tue, 23 Oct 2012 08:00:39 -0700 (PDT), "






Certainly. The performance in the visible range is *no* guarantee of the
performance outside the visible range.

Do you agree or disagree that a home radiator painted black will
radiate more heat than one painted white?

Disagree, as stated. It doesn't matter a whit what it's performance is in
visible light.

And if you agree, then
how can it not be because black is a better radiator?

Bad assumption = faulty conclusion, as usual.

Regardless of the ir absorption qualities, black will probably never be
less than white. I see the point. It's easy enough to check which material
is going to get hotter in sunlight, I mean radiation.

Greg

On Wed, 24 Oct 2012 00:33:46 +0000 (UTC), gregz
wrote:

" wrote:
On Tue, 23 Oct 2012 10:23:16 -0700 (PDT), "
wrote:

On Oct 23, 12:44 pm, "
wrote:
On Tue, 23 Oct 2012 08:00:39 -0700 (PDT), "






Certainly. The performance in the visible range is *no* guarantee of the
performance outside the visible range.

Do you agree or disagree that a home radiator painted black will
radiate more heat than one painted white?

Disagree, as stated. It doesn't matter a whit what it's performance is in
visible light.

And if you agree, then
how can it not be because black is a better radiator?

Bad assumption = faulty conclusion, as usual.

Regardless of the ir absorption qualities, black will probably never be
less than white. I see the point. It's easy enough to check which material
is going to get hotter in sunlight, I mean radiation.

Greg

Let's try to pin this down a bit.
A condenser (or any heat radiator I can think of) is for shedding
heat.
Heat is shed via IR radiation, conduction, and convection.
Conduction and convection don't care about color.
Condensors/radiators are normally shaded, so don't absorb solar
visible light heat - color won't matter if it's shaded.
There's something called emissivity of IR radiation. Depending on
what/who you read, emissivity depends on color.
Never found a good answer from the internet.
But my understanding is that color is inconsequential for common
condensors/radiators. It's just bling.
Because conduction/convection is doing virtually all the work in
moving the heat.
So good airflow/fluid flow around the condensor/radiatior is worth a
thousand times more consideration than IR emission.
The funny part with home radiators is the arguments against using
silver or gold paint because of emissivity. Every home radiator I've
ever had was painted silver and worked just fine.
Maybe it could have been more efficient with a different color.
But maybe not. Because conduction is as important as emissivity.
It would be expensive to get NASA engineers in to make the
measurements. I never bothered with that.
NASA has the answers to all this with their space radiators.
I've read they use some wildly expensive materials to get best
results.

On Wed, 24 Oct 2012 00:33:46 +0000 (UTC), gregz wrote:

" wrote:
On Tue, 23 Oct 2012 10:23:16 -0700 (PDT), "
wrote:

On Oct 23, 12:44 pm, "
wrote:
On Tue, 23 Oct 2012 08:00:39 -0700 (PDT), "






Certainly. The performance in the visible range is *no* guarantee of the
performance outside the visible range.

Do you agree or disagree that a home radiator painted black will
radiate more heat than one painted white?

Disagree, as stated. It doesn't matter a whit what it's performance is in
visible light.

And if you agree, then
how can it not be because black is a better radiator?

Bad assumption = faulty conclusion, as usual.

Regardless of the ir absorption qualities, black will probably never be
less than white. I see the point. It's easy enough to check which material
is going to get hotter in sunlight, I mean radiation.

Again, there are two discussions going on here. First, which will get hotter
in sunlight. Black may get hotter because there is significant energy in the
visible range (IIRC the peak is in the green/yellow region). There is far
more, integrated over the entire EM spectrum, outside the visible range, so
black will not necessarily be hotter. Certainly this can be measured with a
thermometer (your hand isn't going to do it).

The other issue is whether black makes a better radiator for a 'fridge. This
is *not* true because there is no visible light being emitted so it doesn't
matter one bit what the color is in the visible range. There just isn't any
radiation there. The emissivity at the black-body temperature of the widget
matters, not its emissivity in the visible range.

On Oct 23, 11:01*pm, "
wrote:
On Wed, 24 Oct 2012 00:33:46 +0000 (UTC), gregz wrote:
" wrote:
On Tue, 23 Oct 2012 10:23:16 -0700 (PDT), "
wrote:

On Oct 23, 12:44 pm, "
wrote:
On Tue, 23 Oct 2012 08:00:39 -0700 (PDT), "

Certainly. *The performance in the visible range is *no* guarantee of the
performance outside the visible range.

Do you agree or disagree that a home radiator painted black will
radiate more heat than one painted white?

Disagree, as stated. * It doesn't matter a whit what it's performance is in
visible light.

And if you agree, then
how can it not be because black is a better radiator?

Bad assumption = faulty conclusion, as usual.

Regardless of the ir absorption qualities, black will probably never be
less than white. I see the point. It's easy enough to check which material
is going to get hotter in sunlight, I mean radiation.

Again, there are two discussions going on here. *First, which will get hotter
in sunlight. *Black may get hotter because there is significant energy in the
visible range (IIRC the peak is in the green/yellow region). *There is far
more, integrated over the entire EM spectrum, outside the visible range, so
black will not necessarily be hotter. Certainly this can be measured with a
thermometer (your hand isn't going to do it).

The other issue is whether black makes a better radiator for a 'fridge. *This
is *not* true because there is no visible light being emitted so it doesn't
matter one bit what the color is in the visible range. *There just isn't any
radiation there. *The emissivity at the black-body temperature of the widget
matters, not its emissivity in the visible range.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -


The question at hand was obviously not whether the
color of a condensor makes a difference for a fridge in
general. The question was whether the color of a fridge
condensor that is outside, EXPOSED TO SUNLIGHT,
makes a difference.

Stormin:
"If a refrigerator is used outdoors, in the summer.
The condensor on the back, is black tubing. As
we know, black absorbs heat from the sun shine,
which makes the compressor work harder. "

Now, it seems you agree that white will reflect more of
the sunlight. At the same time, white paint and black
paint will both
allow about the same radiation from the condensor.
That means with white you radiate virtually the same
amount of heat out, but because it's white, it reflects
a lot of heat from the sun that it would absorb if it were
black. Ergo, if the condensor was
painted white instead of black, it would transfer virtually
the same amount of heat via radiation, but it would be
heated less by the sun.

And I also totally agree with Vic that the overwhelming
heat transfer from the condensor is via convection, not
radiation. So, again, which condensor is going to
be more efficient? A black one that has to not only
get rid of heat from the fridge mainly via convection, but
also the additional heat from the sun? Or a white one, that
has less heat absorbed from the sun? I vote for
white.

Finally, I think the overall effect on efficiency of the
fridge from the color of the condensor with
sun shining on it is still probably small in the
grand scheme of things.

One vote, white.

To further refine the question. Maybe a white sun shade, about a foot out,
would be workable. Plenty of air flow available.

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

wrote in message
...

The question at hand was obviously not whether the
color of a condensor makes a difference for a fridge in
general. The question was whether the color of a fridge
condensor that is outside, EXPOSED TO SUNLIGHT,
makes a difference.

Stormin:
"If a refrigerator is used outdoors, in the summer.
The condensor on the back, is black tubing. As
we know, black absorbs heat from the sun shine,
which makes the compressor work harder. "

Now, it seems you agree that white will reflect more of
the sunlight. At the same time, white paint and black
paint will both
allow about the same radiation from the condensor.
That means with white you radiate virtually the same
amount of heat out, but because it's white, it reflects
a lot of heat from the sun that it would absorb if it were
black. Ergo, if the condensor was
painted white instead of black, it would transfer virtually
the same amount of heat via radiation, but it would be
heated less by the sun.

And I also totally agree with Vic that the overwhelming
heat transfer from the condensor is via convection, not
radiation. So, again, which condensor is going to
be more efficient? A black one that has to not only
get rid of heat from the fridge mainly via convection, but
also the additional heat from the sun? Or a white one, that
has less heat absorbed from the sun? I vote for
white.

Finally, I think the overall effect on efficiency of the
fridge from the color of the condensor with
sun shining on it is still probably small in the
grand scheme of things.

On Tue, 23 Oct 2012 21:30:42 -0500, Vic Smith
wrote:

On Wed, 24 Oct 2012 00:33:46 +0000 (UTC), gregz
wrote:

" wrote:
On Tue, 23 Oct 2012 10:23:16 -0700 (PDT), "
wrote:

On Oct 23, 12:44 pm, "
wrote:
On Tue, 23 Oct 2012 08:00:39 -0700 (PDT), "






Certainly. The performance in the visible range is *no* guarantee of the
performance outside the visible range.

Do you agree or disagree that a home radiator painted black will
radiate more heat than one painted white?

Disagree, as stated. It doesn't matter a whit what it's performance is in
visible light.

And if you agree, then
how can it not be because black is a better radiator?

Bad assumption = faulty conclusion, as usual.

Regardless of the ir absorption qualities, black will probably never be
less than white. I see the point. It's easy enough to check which material
is going to get hotter in sunlight, I mean radiation.

Greg

Let's try to pin this down a bit.
A condenser (or any heat radiator I can think of) is for shedding
heat.
Heat is shed via IR radiation, conduction, and convection.
Conduction and convection don't care about color.

So far, so good. Conducion does care about paint, though. It's an insulator,
to some degree or other. ;-)

Condensors/radiators are normally shaded, so don't absorb solar
visible light heat - color won't matter if it's shaded.

At least in the first order, yes.

There's something called emissivity of IR radiation. Depending on
what/who you read, emissivity depends on color.

It doesn't depend on color at all. Snow has a very high emissivity, for
instance.

Never found a good answer from the internet.
But my understanding is that color is inconsequential for common
condensors/radiators. It's just bling.

Color doesn't. Some materials, of course, have definite colors and that may
change emissivity. IIRC, blue anodizing is slightly better than other colors,
not because it's blue, rather because of the specific process/chemicals used.

Because conduction/convection is doing virtually all the work in
moving the heat.

Yes.

So good airflow/fluid flow around the condensor/radiatior is worth a
thousand times more consideration than IR emission.

Yes.

The funny part with home radiators is the arguments against using
silver or gold paint because of emissivity. Every home radiator I've
ever had was painted silver and worked just fine.

The paint will reduce conduction (insulation), and therefore convection. Bad
idea, except that protecting the surface from corrosion will usually offset
the insulation.

Maybe it could have been more efficient with a different color.
But maybe not. Because conduction is as important as emissivity.
It would be expensive to get NASA engineers in to make the
measurements. I never bothered with that.
NASA has the answers to all this with their space radiators.
I've read they use some wildly expensive materials to get best
results.

Convection and conduction don't work well in space. ;-)

On Wed, 24 Oct 2012 05:51:03 -0700 (PDT), "
wrote:

On Oct 23, 11:01*pm, "
wrote:
On Wed, 24 Oct 2012 00:33:46 +0000 (UTC), gregz wrote:
" wrote:
On Tue, 23 Oct 2012 10:23:16 -0700 (PDT), "
wrote:

On Oct 23, 12:44 pm, "
wrote:
On Tue, 23 Oct 2012 08:00:39 -0700 (PDT), "

Certainly. *The performance in the visible range is *no* guarantee of the
performance outside the visible range.

Do you agree or disagree that a home radiator painted black will
radiate more heat than one painted white?

Disagree, as stated. * It doesn't matter a whit what it's performance is in
visible light.

And if you agree, then
how can it not be because black is a better radiator?

Bad assumption = faulty conclusion, as usual.

Regardless of the ir absorption qualities, black will probably never be
less than white. I see the point. It's easy enough to check which material
is going to get hotter in sunlight, I mean radiation.

Again, there are two discussions going on here. *First, which will get hotter
in sunlight. *Black may get hotter because there is significant energy in the
visible range (IIRC the peak is in the green/yellow region). *There is far
more, integrated over the entire EM spectrum, outside the visible range, so
black will not necessarily be hotter. Certainly this can be measured with a
thermometer (your hand isn't going to do it).

The other issue is whether black makes a better radiator for a 'fridge. *This
is *not* true because there is no visible light being emitted so it doesn't
matter one bit what the color is in the visible range. *There just isn't any
radiation there. *The emissivity at the black-body temperature of the widget
matters, not its emissivity in the visible range.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -


The question at hand was obviously not whether the
color of a condensor makes a difference for a fridge in
general. The question was whether the color of a fridge
condensor that is outside, EXPOSED TO SUNLIGHT,
makes a difference.

There were two discussions getting mixed together.

Stormin:
"If a refrigerator is used outdoors, in the summer.
The condensor on the back, is black tubing. As
we know, black absorbs heat from the sun shine,
which makes the compressor work harder. "

That was the original issue, yes, which I answered quite early in the thread
(shade it). Like every thread on the Usenet, it went in various directions,
including what was the best color for a radiator.

Now, it seems you agree that white will reflect more of
the sunlight. At the same time, white paint and black
paint will both
allow about the same radiation from the condensor.
That means with white you radiate virtually the same
amount of heat out, but because it's white, it reflects
a lot of heat from the sun that it would absorb if it were
black. Ergo, if the condensor was
painted white instead of black, it would transfer virtually
the same amount of heat via radiation, but it would be
heated less by the sun.

Like always, you put words in people's mouth and then claim victory when
they're not correct. Go for it. You will anyway.

And I also totally agree with Vic that the overwhelming
heat transfer from the condensor is via convection, not
radiation.

I've said that all along. Please do read the thread before making such an ass
of yourself.

So, again, which condensor is going to
be more efficient? A black one that has to not only
get rid of heat from the fridge mainly via convection, but
also the additional heat from the sun? Or a white one, that
has less heat absorbed from the sun? I vote for
white.

I'd vote for shading it. Neither black nor white will be satisfactory. Any
paint will just add to the problems.

Finally, I think the overall effect on efficiency of the
fridge from the color of the condensor with
sun shining on it is still probably small in the
grand scheme of things.

I think you might be wrong. The higher the delta-T the higher the hill the
heat has to be pumped.

On Wed, 24 Oct 2012 09:27:37 -0400, "Stormin Mormon"
wrote:

One vote, white.

To further refine the question. Maybe a white sun shade, about a foot out,
would be workable. Plenty of air flow available.

Shade the coils.

On Oct 24, 9:53*am, "
wrote:
On Wed, 24 Oct 2012 05:51:03 -0700 (PDT), "





wrote:
On Oct 23, 11:01*pm, "
wrote:
On Wed, 24 Oct 2012 00:33:46 +0000 (UTC), gregz wrote:
" wrote:
On Tue, 23 Oct 2012 10:23:16 -0700 (PDT), "
wrote:

On Oct 23, 12:44 pm, "
wrote:
On Tue, 23 Oct 2012 08:00:39 -0700 (PDT), "

Certainly. *The performance in the visible range is *no* guarantee of the
performance outside the visible range.

Do you agree or disagree that a home radiator painted black will
radiate more heat than one painted white?

Disagree, as stated. * It doesn't matter a whit what it's performance is in
visible light.

And if you agree, then
how can it not be because black is a better radiator?

Bad assumption = faulty conclusion, as usual.

Regardless of the ir absorption qualities, black will probably never be
less than white. I see the point. It's easy enough to check which material
is going to get hotter in sunlight, I mean radiation.

Again, there are two discussions going on here. *First, which will get hotter
in sunlight. *Black may get hotter because there is significant energy in the
visible range (IIRC the peak is in the green/yellow region). *There is far
more, integrated over the entire EM spectrum, outside the visible range, so
black will not necessarily be hotter. Certainly this can be measured with a
thermometer (your hand isn't going to do it).

The other issue is whether black makes a better radiator for a 'fridge.. *This
is *not* true because there is no visible light being emitted so it doesn't
matter one bit what the color is in the visible range. *There just isn't any
radiation there. *The emissivity at the black-body temperature of the widget
matters, not its emissivity in the visible range.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

The question at hand was obviously not whether the
color of a condensor makes a difference for a fridge in
general. *The question was whether the color of a fridge
condensor that is outside, EXPOSED TO SUNLIGHT,
makes a difference.

There were two discussions getting mixed together.

Stormin:
"If a refrigerator is used outdoors, in the summer.
The condensor on the back, is black tubing. As
we know, black absorbs heat from the sun shine,
which makes the compressor work harder. "

That was the original issue, yes, which I answered quite early in the thread
(shade it).

Which of course does not answer the direct question.
I mean here you are arguing science, so why not give
the actual answer to the direct question?



Like every thread on the Usenet, it went in various directions,
including what was the best color for a radiator.

Now, it seems you agree that white will reflect more of
the sunlight. *At the same time, white paint and black
paint will both
allow about the same radiation from the condensor.
That means with white you radiate virtually the same
amount of heat out, but because it's white, it reflects
a lot of heat from the sun that it would absorb if it were
black. * Ergo, if the condensor was
painted white instead of black, *it would transfer virtually
the same amount of heat via radiation, but it would be
heated less by the sun.

Like always, you put words in people's mouth and then claim victory when
they're not correct. *Go for it. *You will anyway.

I have not put words in anyone's mouth. I just believe I
definitively answered the actual question posed by
Stormin.



And I also totally agree with Vic that the overwhelming
heat transfer from the condensor is via convection, not
radiation.

I've said that all along. *Please do read the thread before making such an ass
of yourself.

There you go again, getting nasty for no reason. All I
said was I agreed with Vic. Apparently you do too, so
why the attitude?



So, again, which condensor is going to
be more efficient? * A black one that has to not only
get rid of heat from the fridge mainly via convection, *but
also the additional heat from the sun? * Or a white one, that
has less heat absorbed from the sun? *I vote for
white.

I'd vote for shading it. Neither black nor white will be satisfactory. *Any
paint will just add to the problems.

And there you go again, as usual, redirecting away from
the question if black or white makes a difference.





Finally, I think the overall effect on efficiency of the
fridge from the color of the condensor with
sun shining on it is still probably small in the
grand scheme of things.

I think you might be wrong. *The higher the delta-T the higher the hill the
heat has to be pumped.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

That's interesting for two reasons. One is that by inference,
you apparently agree that for Stormin's stated problem, white
versus black does make a difference, though it's small.
But as usual, you can't just man up and say so.

And second you obviously have not seen the results of
experiments done with
central AC units where the compressor/condensor was
placed in direct sun versus shade. There was negligible
difference in energy used because like the fridge they are
highly dependent on the surrounding air temp, not the
sunlight falling on the coils.

On Wed, 24 Oct 2012 09:00:18 -0700 (PDT), "
wrote:

On Oct 24, 9:53*am, "
wrote:
On Wed, 24 Oct 2012 05:51:03 -0700 (PDT), "





wrote:
On Oct 23, 11:01*pm, "
wrote:
On Wed, 24 Oct 2012 00:33:46 +0000 (UTC), gregz wrote:
" wrote:
On Tue, 23 Oct 2012 10:23:16 -0700 (PDT), "
wrote:

On Oct 23, 12:44 pm, "
wrote:
On Tue, 23 Oct 2012 08:00:39 -0700 (PDT), "

Certainly. *The performance in the visible range is *no* guarantee of the
performance outside the visible range.

Do you agree or disagree that a home radiator painted black will
radiate more heat than one painted white?

Disagree, as stated. * It doesn't matter a whit what it's performance is in
visible light.

And if you agree, then
how can it not be because black is a better radiator?

Bad assumption = faulty conclusion, as usual.

Regardless of the ir absorption qualities, black will probably never be
less than white. I see the point. It's easy enough to check which material
is going to get hotter in sunlight, I mean radiation.

Again, there are two discussions going on here. *First, which will get hotter
in sunlight. *Black may get hotter because there is significant energy in the
visible range (IIRC the peak is in the green/yellow region). *There is far
more, integrated over the entire EM spectrum, outside the visible range, so
black will not necessarily be hotter. Certainly this can be measured with a
thermometer (your hand isn't going to do it).

The other issue is whether black makes a better radiator for a 'fridge. *This
is *not* true because there is no visible light being emitted so it doesn't
matter one bit what the color is in the visible range. *There just isn't any
radiation there. *The emissivity at the black-body temperature of the widget
matters, not its emissivity in the visible range.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

The question at hand was obviously not whether the
color of a condensor makes a difference for a fridge in
general. *The question was whether the color of a fridge
condensor that is outside, EXPOSED TO SUNLIGHT,
makes a difference.

There were two discussions getting mixed together.

Stormin:
"If a refrigerator is used outdoors, in the summer.
The condensor on the back, is black tubing. As
we know, black absorbs heat from the sun shine,
which makes the compressor work harder. "

That was the original issue, yes, which I answered quite early in the thread
(shade it).

Which of course does not answer the direct question.

Actually, it did.

I mean here you are arguing science, so why not give
the actual answer to the direct question?

I did. The binary answers weren't sufficient.

Like every thread on the Usenet, it went in various directions,
including what was the best color for a radiator.

Now, it seems you agree that white will reflect more of
the sunlight. *At the same time, white paint and black
paint will both
allow about the same radiation from the condensor.
That means with white you radiate virtually the same
amount of heat out, but because it's white, it reflects
a lot of heat from the sun that it would absorb if it were
black. * Ergo, if the condensor was
painted white instead of black, *it would transfer virtually
the same amount of heat via radiation, but it would be
heated less by the sun.

Like always, you put words in people's mouth and then claim victory when
they're not correct. *Go for it. *You will anyway.

I have not put words in anyone's mouth. I just believe I
definitively answered the actual question posed by
Stormin.

You're a liar but that's nothing new, either.


And I also totally agree with Vic that the overwhelming
heat transfer from the condensor is via convection, not
radiation.

I've said that all along. *Please do read the thread before making such an ass
of yourself.

There you go again, getting nasty for no reason. All I
said was I agreed with Vic. Apparently you do too, so
why the attitude?

More lies. ...to be expected.

So, again, which condensor is going to
be more efficient? * A black one that has to not only
get rid of heat from the fridge mainly via convection, *but
also the additional heat from the sun? * Or a white one, that
has less heat absorbed from the sun? *I vote for
white.

I'd vote for shading it. Neither black nor white will be satisfactory. *Any
paint will just add to the problems.

And there you go again, as usual, redirecting away from
the question if black or white makes a difference.

No, that's the right answer. You're just looking for an excuse to cause
trouble. Again.

Finally, I think the overall effect on efficiency of the
fridge from the color of the condensor with
sun shining on it is still probably small in the
grand scheme of things.

I think you might be wrong. *The higher the delta-T the higher the hill the
heat has to be pumped.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

That's interesting for two reasons. One is that by inference,
you apparently agree that for Stormin's stated problem, white
versus black does make a difference, though it's small.
But as usual, you can't just man up and say so.

I said that, dumbass. Good Lord, you're stupid!

And second you obviously have not seen the results of
experiments done with
central AC units where the compressor/condensor was
placed in direct sun versus shade. There was negligible
difference in energy used because like the fridge they are
highly dependent on the surrounding air temp, not the
sunlight falling on the coils.

Go away, idiot.

Yes, and thank you. You are a very kind person.

Someone posted such a study on alt.hvac some years ago. I was amazed to see
they reported little difference, if the condensor was in the sun or shade.
My intuition is that shade is much better.

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

wrote in message
...

I have not put words in anyone's mouth. I just believe I
definitively answered the actual question posed by
Stormin.

And second you obviously have not seen the results of
experiments done with
central AC units where the compressor/condensor was
placed in direct sun versus shade. There was negligible
difference in energy used because like the fridge they are
highly dependent on the surrounding air temp, not the
sunlight falling on the coils.

On Oct 24, 1:26*pm, "
wrote:
On Wed, 24 Oct 2012 09:00:18 -0700 (PDT), "





wrote:
On Oct 24, 9:53*am, "
wrote:
On Wed, 24 Oct 2012 05:51:03 -0700 (PDT), "

wrote:
On Oct 23, 11:01*pm, "
wrote:
On Wed, 24 Oct 2012 00:33:46 +0000 (UTC), gregz wrote:
" wrote:
On Tue, 23 Oct 2012 10:23:16 -0700 (PDT), "
wrote:

On Oct 23, 12:44 pm, "
wrote:
On Tue, 23 Oct 2012 08:00:39 -0700 (PDT), "

Certainly. *The performance in the visible range is *no* guarantee of the
performance outside the visible range.

Do you agree or disagree that a home radiator painted black will
radiate more heat than one painted white?

Disagree, as stated. * It doesn't matter a whit what it's performance is in
visible light.

And if you agree, then
how can it not be because black is a better radiator?

Bad assumption = faulty conclusion, as usual.

Regardless of the ir absorption qualities, black will probably never be
less than white. I see the point. It's easy enough to check which material
is going to get hotter in sunlight, I mean radiation.

Again, there are two discussions going on here. *First, which will get hotter
in sunlight. *Black may get hotter because there is significant energy in the
visible range (IIRC the peak is in the green/yellow region). *There is far
more, integrated over the entire EM spectrum, outside the visible range, so
black will not necessarily be hotter. Certainly this can be measured with a
thermometer (your hand isn't going to do it).

The other issue is whether black makes a better radiator for a 'fridge. *This
is *not* true because there is no visible light being emitted so it doesn't
matter one bit what the color is in the visible range. *There just isn't any
radiation there. *The emissivity at the black-body temperature of the widget
matters, not its emissivity in the visible range.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

The question at hand was obviously not whether the
color of a condensor makes a difference for a fridge in
general. *The question was whether the color of a fridge
condensor that is outside, EXPOSED TO SUNLIGHT,
makes a difference.

There were two discussions getting mixed together.

Stormin:
"If a refrigerator is used outdoors, in the summer.
The condensor on the back, is black tubing. As
we know, black absorbs heat from the sun shine,
which makes the compressor work harder. "

That was the original issue, yes, which I answered quite early in the thread
(shade it).

Which of course does not answer the direct question.

Actually, it did.

I mean here you are arguing science, so why not give
the actual answer to the direct question?

I did. *The binary answers weren't sufficient.





Like every thread on the Usenet, it went in various directions,
including what was the best color for a radiator.

Now, it seems you agree that white will reflect more of
the sunlight. *At the same time, white paint and black
paint will both
allow about the same radiation from the condensor.
That means with white you radiate virtually the same
amount of heat out, but because it's white, it reflects
a lot of heat from the sun that it would absorb if it were
black. * Ergo, if the condensor was
painted white instead of black, *it would transfer virtually
the same amount of heat via radiation, but it would be
heated less by the sun.

Like always, you put words in people's mouth and then claim victory when
they're not correct. *Go for it. *You will anyway.

I have not put words in anyone's mouth. *I just believe I
definitively answered the actual question posed by
Stormin.

You're a liar but that's nothing new, either.



And I also totally agree with Vic that the overwhelming
heat transfer from the condensor is via convection, not
radiation.

I've said that all along. *Please do read the thread before making such an ass
of yourself.

There you go again, getting nasty for no reason. * All I
said was I agreed with Vic. *Apparently you do too, so
why the attitude?

More lies. *...to be expected.

So, again, which condensor is going to
be more efficient? * A black one that has to not only
get rid of heat from the fridge mainly via convection, *but
also the additional heat from the sun? * Or a white one, that
has less heat absorbed from the sun? *I vote for
white.

I'd vote for shading it. Neither black nor white will be satisfactory. *Any
paint will just add to the problems.

And there you go again, as usual, redirecting away from
the question if black or white makes a difference.

No, that's the right answer. *You're just looking for an excuse to cause
trouble. *Again.

Finally, I think the overall effect on efficiency of the
fridge from the color of the condensor with
sun shining on it is still probably small in the
grand scheme of things.

I think you might be wrong. *The higher the delta-T the higher the hill the
heat has to be pumped.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

That's interesting for two reasons. *One is that by inference,
you apparently agree that for Stormin's stated problem, white
versus black does make a difference, though it's small.
But as usual, *you can't just man up and say so.

I said that, dumbass. * Good Lord, you're stupid!

And second you obviously have not seen the results of
experiments done with
central AC units where the compressor/condensor was
placed in direct sun versus shade. * There was negligible
difference in energy used because like the fridge they are
highly dependent on the surrounding air temp, not the
sunlight falling on the coils.

Go away, idiot.- Hide quoted text -



So typical and sadly to be expected from KRW.

On Oct 21, 6:07 pm, "
wrote
Same as hats, I would assume.

No. Aluminun foil hats should be shiny side out, so the laser
from the mother ship will be reflected and they can't control
your thoughts. ..... Same for aluminum underwear.

When you get to be a grandfather, you gotta know this stuff.....

On Thu, 25 Oct 2012 07:14:49 -0700 (PDT), "
wrote:

On Oct 24, 1:26*pm, "
wrote:
On Wed, 24 Oct 2012 09:00:18 -0700 (PDT), "





wrote:
On Oct 24, 9:53*am, "
wrote:
On Wed, 24 Oct 2012 05:51:03 -0700 (PDT), "

wrote:
On Oct 23, 11:01*pm, "
wrote:
On Wed, 24 Oct 2012 00:33:46 +0000 (UTC), gregz wrote:
" wrote:
On Tue, 23 Oct 2012 10:23:16 -0700 (PDT), "
wrote:

On Oct 23, 12:44 pm, "
wrote:
On Tue, 23 Oct 2012 08:00:39 -0700 (PDT), "

Certainly. *The performance in the visible range is *no* guarantee of the
performance outside the visible range.

Do you agree or disagree that a home radiator painted black will
radiate more heat than one painted white?

Disagree, as stated. * It doesn't matter a whit what it's performance is in
visible light.

And if you agree, then
how can it not be because black is a better radiator?

Bad assumption = faulty conclusion, as usual.

Regardless of the ir absorption qualities, black will probably never be
less than white. I see the point. It's easy enough to check which material
is going to get hotter in sunlight, I mean radiation.

Again, there are two discussions going on here. *First, which will get hotter
in sunlight. *Black may get hotter because there is significant energy in the
visible range (IIRC the peak is in the green/yellow region). *There is far
more, integrated over the entire EM spectrum, outside the visible range, so
black will not necessarily be hotter. Certainly this can be measured with a
thermometer (your hand isn't going to do it).

The other issue is whether black makes a better radiator for a 'fridge. *This
is *not* true because there is no visible light being emitted so it doesn't
matter one bit what the color is in the visible range. *There just isn't any
radiation there. *The emissivity at the black-body temperature of the widget
matters, not its emissivity in the visible range.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

The question at hand was obviously not whether the
color of a condensor makes a difference for a fridge in
general. *The question was whether the color of a fridge
condensor that is outside, EXPOSED TO SUNLIGHT,
makes a difference.

There were two discussions getting mixed together.

Stormin:
"If a refrigerator is used outdoors, in the summer.
The condensor on the back, is black tubing. As
we know, black absorbs heat from the sun shine,
which makes the compressor work harder. "

That was the original issue, yes, which I answered quite early in the thread
(shade it).

Which of course does not answer the direct question.

Actually, it did.

I mean here you are arguing science, so why not give
the actual answer to the direct question?

I did. *The binary answers weren't sufficient.





Like every thread on the Usenet, it went in various directions,
including what was the best color for a radiator.

Now, it seems you agree that white will reflect more of
the sunlight. *At the same time, white paint and black
paint will both
allow about the same radiation from the condensor.
That means with white you radiate virtually the same
amount of heat out, but because it's white, it reflects
a lot of heat from the sun that it would absorb if it were
black. * Ergo, if the condensor was
painted white instead of black, *it would transfer virtually
the same amount of heat via radiation, but it would be
heated less by the sun.

Like always, you put words in people's mouth and then claim victory when
they're not correct. *Go for it. *You will anyway.

I have not put words in anyone's mouth. *I just believe I
definitively answered the actual question posed by
Stormin.

You're a liar but that's nothing new, either.



And I also totally agree with Vic that the overwhelming
heat transfer from the condensor is via convection, not
radiation.

I've said that all along. *Please do read the thread before making such an ass
of yourself.

There you go again, getting nasty for no reason. * All I
said was I agreed with Vic. *Apparently you do too, so
why the attitude?

More lies. *...to be expected.

So, again, which condensor is going to
be more efficient? * A black one that has to not only
get rid of heat from the fridge mainly via convection, *but
also the additional heat from the sun? * Or a white one, that
has less heat absorbed from the sun? *I vote for
white.

I'd vote for shading it. Neither black nor white will be satisfactory. *Any
paint will just add to the problems.

And there you go again, as usual, redirecting away from
the question if black or white makes a difference.

No, that's the right answer. *You're just looking for an excuse to cause
trouble. *Again.

Finally, I think the overall effect on efficiency of the
fridge from the color of the condensor with
sun shining on it is still probably small in the
grand scheme of things.

I think you might be wrong. *The higher the delta-T the higher the hill the
heat has to be pumped.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

That's interesting for two reasons. *One is that by inference,
you apparently agree that for Stormin's stated problem, white
versus black does make a difference, though it's small.
But as usual, *you can't just man up and say so.

I said that, dumbass. * Good Lord, you're stupid!

And second you obviously have not seen the results of
experiments done with
central AC units where the compressor/condensor was
placed in direct sun versus shade. * There was negligible
difference in energy used because like the fridge they are
highly dependent on the surrounding air temp, not the
sunlight falling on the coils.

Go away, idiot.- Hide quoted text -



So typical and sadly to be expected from KRW.

When you get involved, it can hardly come out differently.