.... so says an article in the New York Times.

"Today’s humans probably need air-conditioning if they want to thrive and
prosper. Yet if all those new city dwellers use air-conditioning the way
Americans do, life could be one stuttering series of massive blackouts,
accompanied by disastrous planet-warming emissions. We can’t live with
air-conditioning, but we can’t live without it."

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/08/19/su...pagewanted=all

"HeyBub" wrote in
:

... so says an article in the New York Times.

"Today’s humans probably need air-conditioning if they want to thrive
and prosper. Yet if all those new city dwellers use air-conditioning
the way Americans do, life could be one stuttering series of massive
blackouts, accompanied by disastrous planet-warming emissions. We
can’t live with air-conditioning, but we can’t live without it."

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/08/19/su...tioning-is-an-
environmental-quandary.html?_r=1&hp&pagewanted=all

Well, most of it is true. It is a law of thermodynamics, sometimes
called you can't geta free lunch. If you are collecting, transferring
and expelling heat from one place to another, you need energy to pump it.
Unless you're using solar power directly (no PV, perhaps a Stirling
engine), that extra energy is accompanied by heat loss, i.e. more heat is
produced. I love my central A/C, but I do not pretend that it saves
energy over other methods. It's the price I and the environment pay for
my comfort.

--
Best regards
Han
email address is invalid

On Aug 20, 5:21*am, "HeyBub" wrote:
... so says an article in the New York Times.

"Today’s humans probably need air-conditioning if they want to thrive and
prosper. Yet if all those new city dwellers use air-conditioning the way
Americans do, life could be one stuttering series of massive blackouts,
accompanied by disastrous planet-warming emissions. We can’t live with
air-conditioning, but we can’t live without it."

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/08/19/su...ditioning-is-a...

According a recent article (forget source)....
consider all the energy used on HVAC in the US, the vast majority is
used on heating.

The liberals of the northeast can bash conservatives for their AC use
but on a person basis, I wonder who has the larger HVAC energy usage.
On an energy us basis, is AC really any more evil than heating?

Unless we all live where naturally occurring conditions are pleasant
(tolerable?), HVAC is necessity of modern life.

cheers
Bob

HeyBub wrote:
... so says an article in the New York Times.

"Today’s humans probably need air-conditioning if they want to thrive
and prosper. Yet if all those new city dwellers use air-conditioning
the way Americans do, life could be one stuttering series of massive
blackouts, accompanied by disastrous planet-warming emissions. We
can’t live with air-conditioning, but we can’t live without it."

Well, we sure *used* to live without it.

Of course, there is a lot more concrete/asphalt now for heat sinks. Not to
mention tall buildings (in cities) that block the breezes. And commercial
office buildings used to have windows that opened, houses had decent
overhangs and - if desiged well - took advantage of the natural cooling
afforded by trees and cross ventilation. Cars had wing windows that would
let you direct a nice breeze inward even when it was raining. Now things
are "improved".

Personally, I *still* live without it for the most part. The main heat pump
for our house hasn't been on this summer - and August in Florida is hot and
muggy. I do sometimes turn on the heat pump for our bedroom for a couple of
hours along about sunset because the humidity rises then due to the cooler
air after sunset.

We also use the air in our main car. The secondary one has no air, just
wing windows. I prefer it

On the political front, things went to pot when Congress got air
conditioning...they all used to go home when DC got hot & muggy; now they
are there all year trying to dream up stuff to justify their presence.

--

dadiOH
____________________________

Winters getting colder? Tired of the rat race?
Maybe just ready for a change? Check it out...
http://www.floridaloghouse.net

On Mon, 20 Aug 2012 07:27:31 -0700 (PDT), DD_BobK wrote:

On Aug 20, 5:21*am, "HeyBub" wrote:
... so says an article in the New York Times.

"Today’s humans probably need air-conditioning if they want to thrive and
prosper. Yet if all those new city dwellers use air-conditioning the way
Americans do, life could be one stuttering series of massive blackouts,
accompanied by disastrous planet-warming emissions. We can’t live with
air-conditioning, but we can’t live without it."

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/08/19/su...ditioning-is-a...

According a recent article (forget source)....
consider all the energy used on HVAC in the US, the vast majority is
used on heating.

The liberals of the northeast can bash conservatives for their AC use
but on a person basis, I wonder who has the larger HVAC energy usage.
On an energy us basis, is AC really any more evil than heating?

Good point. Consider that the delta-T needed in the South for AC is less than
that needed in the north for heat. Add to that, the fact that AC has an
"efficiency 200%" (more than twice the energy moved as required to move it).
Plus, my heating system *is* my AC (see above).

Unless we all live where naturally occurring conditions are pleasant
(tolerable?), HVAC is necessity of modern life.

But people are *evil*.

On the political front, things went to pot when Congress got air
conditioning...they all used to go home when DC got hot & muggy; now they
are there all year trying to dream up stuff to justify their presence.

--

dadiOH

if your talking about congress they sure arent doing much......

On Monday, August 20, 2012 10:27:31 AM UTC-4, DD_BobK wrote:
On an energy us basis, is AC really any more evil than heating?

Maybe not, but heat is a necessity for survival. A perfectly healthy person can easily freeze to death. No perfectly healthy person has ever died because they were uncomfortably hot.

On that basis, A/C is definitely more "evil" than heating.

On Mon, 20 Aug 2012 13:05:41 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

On Monday, August 20, 2012 10:27:31 AM UTC-4, DD_BobK wrote:
On an energy us basis, is AC really any more evil than heating?

Maybe not, but heat is a necessity for survival. A perfectly healthy person can easily freeze to death. No perfectly healthy person has ever died because they were uncomfortably hot.

On that basis, A/C is definitely more "evil" than heating.
Never heard of heat stroke, eh???

On Mon, 20 Aug 2012 16:43:04 -0400, wrote:

On Mon, 20 Aug 2012 13:05:41 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

On Monday, August 20, 2012 10:27:31 AM UTC-4, DD_BobK wrote:
On an energy us basis, is AC really any more evil than heating?

Maybe not, but heat is a necessity for survival. A perfectly healthy person can easily freeze to death. No perfectly healthy person has ever died because they were uncomfortably hot.

On that basis, A/C is definitely more "evil" than heating.
Never heard of heat stroke, eh???

.... or never heard of a person dying in the desert; within walking
distance to a subdivision?
--

On Mon, 20 Aug 2012 13:01:34 -0700 (PDT), bob haller
wrote:


On the political front, things went to pot when Congress got air
conditioning...they all used to go home when DC got hot & muggy; now they
are there all year trying to dream up stuff to justify their presence.

--

dadiOH

if your talking about congress they sure arent doing much......

We are now approaching the lame-duck season. It gets even worse.

--

dadiOH wrote:

On the political front, things went to pot when Congress got air
conditioning...they all used to go home when DC got hot & muggy; now
they are there all year trying to dream up stuff to justify their
presence.

Uh, Congress, right now, is in it's "August Recess" (August 6th thru
September 7th).

bob haller wrote:
On the political front, things went to pot when Congress got air
conditioning...they all used to go home when DC got hot & muggy; now
they are there all year trying to dream up stuff to justify their
presence.

--

dadiOH

if your talking about congress they sure arent doing much......

Yeah!

On Mon, 20 Aug 2012 18:09:37 -0500, "HeyBub"
wrote:

bob haller wrote:
On the political front, things went to pot when Congress got air
conditioning...they all used to go home when DC got hot & muggy; now
they are there all year trying to dream up stuff to justify their
presence.

--

dadiOH

if your talking about congress they sure arent doing much......

Yeah!


Our state legislature meets every two years. Even with that, they can
find a way to mess stuff up.
--

On Mon, 20 Aug 2012 14:48:17 -0700, Oren wrote:

On Mon, 20 Aug 2012 16:43:04 -0400, wrote:

On Mon, 20 Aug 2012 13:05:41 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

On Monday, August 20, 2012 10:27:31 AM UTC-4, DD_BobK wrote:
On an energy us basis, is AC really any more evil than heating?

Maybe not, but heat is a necessity for survival. A perfectly healthy person can easily freeze to death. No perfectly healthy person has ever died because they were uncomfortably hot.

On that basis, A/C is definitely more "evil" than heating.
Never heard of heat stroke, eh???

... or never heard of a person dying in the desert; within walking
distance to a subdivision?

....or Global Warming.

On Mon, 20 Aug 2012 14:48:17 -0700, Oren wrote:

On Mon, 20 Aug 2012 16:43:04 -0400, wrote:

On Mon, 20 Aug 2012 13:05:41 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

On Monday, August 20, 2012 10:27:31 AM UTC-4, DD_BobK wrote:
On an energy us basis, is AC really any more evil than heating?

Maybe not, but heat is a necessity for survival. A perfectly healthy person can easily freeze to death. No perfectly healthy person has ever died because they were uncomfortably hot.

On that basis, A/C is definitely more "evil" than heating.
Never heard of heat stroke, eh???

... or never heard of a person dying in the desert; within walking
distance to a subdivision?


He said "perfectly healthy" for starter. Anyone I'm aware of that had
heat stroke was either ill or was working or doing some physical
activity when they should/could have stopped.

Just sitting still in the cold can kill you, but just sitting in your
living room in the heat is bearable for healthy people.

That said, my house is air conditioned for my comfort.

On Mon, 20 Aug 2012 22:20:16 -0400, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

On Mon, 20 Aug 2012 14:48:17 -0700, Oren wrote:

On Mon, 20 Aug 2012 16:43:04 -0400, wrote:

On Mon, 20 Aug 2012 13:05:41 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

On Monday, August 20, 2012 10:27:31 AM UTC-4, DD_BobK wrote:
On an energy us basis, is AC really any more evil than heating?

Maybe not, but heat is a necessity for survival. A perfectly healthy person can easily freeze to death. No perfectly healthy person has ever died because they were uncomfortably hot.

On that basis, A/C is definitely more "evil" than heating.
Never heard of heat stroke, eh???

... or never heard of a person dying in the desert; within walking
distance to a subdivision?


He said "perfectly healthy" for starter. Anyone I'm aware of that had
heat stroke was either ill or was working or doing some physical
activity when they should/could have stopped.

Just sitting still in the cold can kill you, but just sitting in your
living room in the heat is bearable for healthy people.

That said, my house is air conditioned for my comfort.
Anything that allows the body core temperature to excede 105 F will
cause heat stroke. If the temperature is over 105F and the humidity is
high enough that sweating does not cause evaporative cooling, heat
stroke will result - no matter what state of health you are in.
There are two types of heat stroke: classic, non-exertional heat
stroke (NEHS) and exertional heat stroke (EHS). Classic heat stroke
occurs most commonly in, (but is not restricted to) very young or
older individuals,

On 8/20/2012 9:52 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 20 Aug 2012 22:20:16 -0400, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

On Mon, 20 Aug 2012 14:48:17 -0700, Oren wrote:

On Mon, 20 Aug 2012 16:43:04 -0400, wrote:

On Mon, 20 Aug 2012 13:05:41 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

On Monday, August 20, 2012 10:27:31 AM UTC-4, DD_BobK wrote:
On an energy us basis, is AC really any more evil than heating?

Maybe not, but heat is a necessity for survival. A perfectly healthy person can easily freeze to death. No perfectly healthy person has ever died because they were uncomfortably hot.

On that basis, A/C is definitely more "evil" than heating.
Never heard of heat stroke, eh???

... or never heard of a person dying in the desert; within walking
distance to a subdivision?


He said "perfectly healthy" for starter. Anyone I'm aware of that had
heat stroke was either ill or was working or doing some physical
activity when they should/could have stopped.

Just sitting still in the cold can kill you, but just sitting in your
living room in the heat is bearable for healthy people.

That said, my house is air conditioned for my comfort.
Anything that allows the body core temperature to excede 105 F will
cause heat stroke. If the temperature is over 105F and the humidity is
high enough that sweating does not cause evaporative cooling, heat
stroke will result - no matter what state of health you are in.
There are two types of heat stroke: classic, non-exertional heat
stroke (NEHS) and exertional heat stroke (EHS). Classic heat stroke
occurs most commonly in, (but is not restricted to) very young or
older individuals,


I was perfectly healthy and in very good shape when I wound up in the
island hospital with a kidney stone because I had been working in 100°F
heat and drinking lots of island water which had a high calcium content.
Lens wells on coral islands tend to have a high calcium and often high
salt content in the potable water drawn from them. O_o

TDD

Oren wrote:

Our state legislature meets every two years. Even with that, they can
find a way to mess stuff up.

Back in the day, the editor of the Houston Post observed: "Our state
legislature meets for 90 days every two years. That's exactly the reverse of
what it should be."

I'd have to do some research. Find some links online. However, I've emailed
with HVAC techs who have had some serious heat problems, working in attics.
I doubt your statement is totally true.

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

wrote in message
...

No perfectly healthy person has ever died because they were uncomfortably
hot.