"Bill" wrote in message
...
Steve wrote:
You are fortunate that you can do the work for yourself, and don't
have
to rely on locating a good tech. As we have discussed before, the
waters
are treacherous!

Only when you are trying to shark HVAC companies for a cheap or a free
fix.

Certainly no sharking going on at this end. In my 3 years of home
ownership and 3 HVAC calls, I promise you that I have never been given a
cheap or free fix. And frankly, I never expected one.

If all these companies were crooked...They would be put out of
business for lack of Bonding. I for one am damned tired of working my
ass off and then seeing some dip**** here ****ing on our industry.


I'm not doing that, maybe it's just trickling down? I think it's fair to
say that the industry will reap what it sows. I sense a greater need for
regulation, and I'm rather conservative. I bought a new multi-meter
(/capacitor tester) today.


So you bought a new meter to check capacitors.... that was a real good
use
of your time and money... The cost of a decent meter that you *might*
need
tocheck a $20 capacitor... is as much as the cost of a service call and
capacitor replacement. I am missing the part where you are saving
anything
here.

The unit, Sperry DM6450 - 9 function, was on sale for $45 at Menards.
An AC service call is $89, and my last capacitor (installed) cost $280.
I thought we (almost) agreed that 10P was the absolute minimum! : )
And, having my own unit, I won't even need to wait two days for someone to
check it. You think this is a poor investment of time and money? It was
only 2 miles to the store, so for the dollar value of my time, it makes
sense for me maybe not for you.

As someone who enjoys using his hands, I'm sure I'll find other uses for
the multimeter too. It's a nice improvement from the Radio Shack cheapie I
bought for myself for about $8 in 1978, which eats batteries as long as
you leave them in. I'm sure I'll also learn something from the new tool as
I experiment with it as I'm interested in electronics.

As far as the "might need" part, as you may have pointed out, it's really
just a matter of "when". If I could start over with my $280 capacitor, I
would handle it differently. Live and learn. $280 capacitors are fine for
people who can afford them I guess. At this point, I don't see how a
homeowner can afford not to be able to check a capacitor on his or her
own. As you have said, the cooling unit is the most expensive appliance in
the house. Last week I suggested to a friend to check his (dual)
capacitor, and he was able to repair his AC unit for $17.50. THAT was
actually the tipping point which made me decide to own a better
multimeter. I'm a "tool guy" anyway so $45 is not a huge amount of money
to me for a good tool. I paid almost as much for a torque wrench which
doesn't see much duty, and twice as much for a Starrett combination
square, and I have no regrets. But I see the potential of paying $280 a
second time for a bad capacitor as just a waste of a tech's valuable time.
I can't even make myself pay $185 for a Veritas router plane, and I really
would like one of those! : )

It actually probably makes sense for many people (those that won't hurt
themselves) to have extra capacitors (one for the fan motor and one for
the compressor motor) on the shelf and ready to go--don't you think?
Together they would cost less than a tank of gas, and they they would have
very little down time when a capacitor goes bad. It seems like cheap
insurance. If they buy the multimeter ($45) and both capacitors (for say
$35) and ever use either capacitor then they would come out $200 ahead,
and still have a multimeter and a capacitor on hand! Are you still
sticking with your hyperbole about my use of time and money? : ) I know
how to use a torch too, but I'm not going there today...lol.


I said a *DECENT* meter.... Fluke and UEI meters that are capacitance
capable, run around $250 a copy.
If your dual-run capacitor goes bad, and you replace it with a good quality
440v one, not the cheapest chinese POS you can find, you should never have
to worry with it again.

You just continue on your merry little way...

I'm curious what $45 meter checks capacitance. Maybe one from HF?

If you take out a 370 volt cap, and put in a 440 volt cap, the increased
voltage will fry electrical equipment. (OK, have fun with that, it's my
early Christmas present to you.)

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

"Steve" wrote in message
...

insurance. If they buy the multimeter ($45) and both capacitors (for say
$35) and ever use either capacitor then they would come out $200 ahead,
and still have a multimeter and a capacitor on hand! Are you still
sticking with your hyperbole about my use of time and money? : ) I know
how to use a torch too, but I'm not going there today...lol.


I said a *DECENT* meter.... Fluke and UEI meters that are capacitance
capable, run around $250 a copy.
If your dual-run capacitor goes bad, and you replace it with a good quality
440v one, not the cheapest chinese POS you can find, you should never have
to worry with it again.

You just continue on your merry little way...

On 8/10/2012 7:58 AM, Stormin Mormon wrote:
I'm curious what $45 meter checks capacitance. Maybe one from HF?

If you take out a 370 volt cap, and put in a 440 volt cap, the increased
voltage will fry electrical equipment. (OK, have fun with that, it's my
early Christmas present to you.)

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
.

"Steve" wrote in message
...

insurance. If they buy the multimeter ($45) and both capacitors (for say
$35) and ever use either capacitor then they would come out $200 ahead,
and still have a multimeter and a capacitor on hand! Are you still
sticking with your hyperbole about my use of time and money? : ) I know
how to use a torch too, but I'm not going there today...lol.

I said a *DECENT* meter.... Fluke and UEI meters that are capacitance
capable, run around $250 a copy.
If your dual-run capacitor goes bad, and you replace it with a good quality
440v one, not the cheapest chinese POS you can find, you should never have
to worry with it again.

You just continue on your merry little way...



Chris,

Why do you persist in deliberately offering untrue, misleading, and
technically bogus information?

It makes you look like a total schmuck.

Is this the way Jesus would have you treat others?


Smarty

On 8/10/2012 8:12 AM, Smarty wrote:
On 8/10/2012 7:58 AM, Stormin Mormon wrote:
I'm curious what $45 meter checks capacitance. Maybe one from HF?

If you take out a 370 volt cap, and put in a 440 volt cap, the increased
voltage will fry electrical equipment. (OK, have fun with that, it's my
early Christmas present to you.)

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
.

"Steve" wrote in message
...

insurance. If they buy the multimeter ($45) and both capacitors (for
say
$35) and ever use either capacitor then they would come out $200 ahead,
and still have a multimeter and a capacitor on hand! Are you still
sticking with your hyperbole about my use of time and money? : ) I
know
how to use a torch too, but I'm not going there today...lol.

I said a *DECENT* meter.... Fluke and UEI meters that are capacitance
capable, run around $250 a copy.
If your dual-run capacitor goes bad, and you replace it with a good
quality
440v one, not the cheapest chinese POS you can find, you should never
have
to worry with it again.

You just continue on your merry little way...



Chris,

Why do you persist in deliberately offering untrue, misleading, and
technically bogus information?

It makes you look like a total schmuck.

Is this the way Jesus would have you treat others?


Smarty


H.I.S.I., pronounced (hissy) stands for Humor Irony Sarcasm Impairment
and folks suffering from that disease often fail to grok the humor of
the statements of others and situations where someone is pulling your
leg. The suffers of the malady often have HISI fits and respond with
great indignation when they fail to see the humor in many situations. ^_^

TDD

In this case, I'm providing Steve a chance to do what he does so well.

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

"Smarty" wrote in message
...

Chris,

Why do you persist in deliberately offering untrue, misleading, and
technically bogus information?

It makes you look like a total schmuck.

Is this the way Jesus would have you treat others?


Smarty

All through school, I was the kid who was teased and picked on. For me, it's
natural to deliberately write stupid things now and again, and get the
predictable reaction. It's what I grew up with.

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

"The Daring Dufas" wrote in message
...

H.I.S.I., pronounced (hissy) stands for Humor Irony Sarcasm Impairment
and folks suffering from that disease often fail to grok the humor of
the statements of others and situations where someone is pulling your
leg. The suffers of the malady often have HISI fits and respond with
great indignation when they fail to see the humor in many situations. ^_^

TDD

On Aug 10, 4:05*am, wrote:
On Sun, 5 Aug 2012 10:41:51 +0000, Daren Friday





wrote:

Hi
We have a Potterton Suprema boiler, a Potterton EP3002 wall timer and a
Wickes wall thermostat.

The heating switches on OK according to the timer schedule but fails to
switch off when it reaches the right room temp set on the thermostat so
we just get hotter.

I had to have a new thermostat for some reason but I seem to remember
there being 3 wires into the stat but there appears to be only 2.

Is that right? *And would the missing wire be the one to turn off the
heat?

(Pictures attached)

Thanks

Daren

+-------------------------------------------------------------------+
|Filename: Boiler.JPG * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * |
|Download:http://www.diybanter.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=6606|
|Filename: Stat.JPG * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * |
|Download:http://www.diybanter.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=6607|
|Filename: Timer.JPG * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *|
|Download:http://www.diybanter.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=6608|
+-------------------------------------------------------------------+

If this was my problem, I'd go to a local heating contractor, and ask
them for advice. *Most places will try to be helpful, knowing you may be
back to buy parts or hire them to do the repair.
Try to find someone
who works on these boilers. *Call around and just ask them if they work
on them. *That way you'll know where to go.


Yeah, I'm sure that will work. Might as well go over
to the HVAC group..... I'm sure they'll tell you where
to go.....

"Stormin Mormon" writes:

All through school, I was the kid who was teased and picked on. For me, it's
natural to deliberately write stupid things now and again, and get the
predictable reaction. It's what I grew up with.

Interesting that you would admit that.
Strange that you wouldn't try to grow out of it, it's long past time.

You could start by actually listening to people when they ask you to
stop top posting.

--
Dan Espen

Stormin Mormon wrote:
I'm curious what $45 meter checks capacitance.

I wrote: Sperry DM-6450 - 9 function
It was regularly $55 at Menards.

Steve wrote:

I said a *DECENT* meter....

You think the Sperry DM-6450 can't check a $20 capacitor properly?


Fluke and UEI meters that are capacitance
capable, run around $250 a copy.
If your dual-run capacitor goes bad, and you replace it with a good quality
440v one, not the cheapest chinese POS you can find, you should never have
to worry with it again.

You just continue on your merry little way...

What you do you mean by that? I've been coming here regularly for 3
months. What's your problem?

Stormin Mormon wrote:
In this case, I'm providing Steve a chance to do what he does so well.

What does he do so well; should he be in politics?




Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
.

"Smarty" wrote in message
...

Chris,

Why do you persist in deliberately offering untrue, misleading, and
technically bogus information?

It makes you look like a total schmuck.

Is this the way Jesus would have you treat others?


Smarty

Bill wrote:
Stormin Mormon wrote:
I'm curious what $45 meter checks capacitance.

I wrote: Sperry DM-6450 - 9 function
It was regularly $55 at Menards.



http://www.amazon.com/Sperry-DM6450-...sperry+dm+6450

I guess a politican could encourage list writers to refer the matter to a
COMPETENT, LICENSED politician to take care of it?

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

"Bill" wrote in message
...
Stormin Mormon wrote:
In this case, I'm providing Steve a chance to do what he does so well.

What does he do so well; should he be in politics?

On Fri, 10 Aug 2012 17:05:56 -0400, "Stormin Mormon"
wrote:

I guess a politican could encourage list writers to refer the matter to a
COMPETENT, LICENSED politician to take care of it?

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
.

"Bill" wrote in message
...
Stormin Mormon wrote:
In this case, I'm providing Steve a chance to do what he does so well.

What does he do so well; should he be in politics?


Reflecting on the past, I made a mistake chosing organized labor. I
should have joined up with organized crime and ran for public office.
John

Me, well, I joined organized Mormons. I'd rather that, than money or
earthly corrupt power.

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

"John Rhosos" wrote in message
...

Reflecting on the past, I made a mistake chosing organized labor. I
should have joined up with organized crime and ran for public office.
John

Does anyone use AC Meter or Amp-probe????

wrote in message ...
On Aug 7, 1:21 pm, Bill wrote:
Steve wrote:
"Bill" wrote in message
...
Steve wrote:
"Stormin Mormon" wrote in message
. com...
I'm sure the professionals on alt havoc will help.

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
.

"Daren Friday" wrote in message
news

I've tried 2 other types of stats and all have the same result, the
heating ignores them when room reaches temp.
I've just changed the stat for a Honeywell CM900 and again I get exactly
the same result. If I move the slider to off on the EP3002 everything
closes fine.

I thought maybe I'd wired the stat wrong so I rewired it and now I've
popped the motorised valve (Myson Power Extra MPE228).

I've ordered a replacement valve and EP3002. See how we go?

Keep playing with it, keep breaking and changing parts... you'll
eventually
change something and accitentally "fix" it, *OR* you can call you local
Master Tech and get the problem corrected the first time and be done with
it.

Not everyone has an instant-gratification fixation. I'm sure you could
troubleshoot it faster, but as long as he is being safe, give the man a
little credit for trying! I do!

He changed something, and now its not working.... then while trying to "fix"
it, he fried a motorized valve... Whats he going to fry next?? How much more
is his attempts going to cost in time and money to replace componants that
he destroys in the process??

Probably not much compared to the cost of an hour or two of a techs
time. If the owner can swap a few components and it works half of the
time, the owner is probably way ahead--at least financially, and surely
from the point of view of understanding his or her system.

I think I am way ahead because I have made the effort to learn more
about how these systems.

Learning how the system works and then correctly
diagnosing what's wrong is different than just buying and
changing parts without knowing what you're doing.
I think that is what he was referring to.

If the thing was heating when the thermstat should not
be calling for heat, wouldn't you just disconnect the
thermostat wires first and see if it stopped?





The industry would seem to prefer for people to
be scared and ignorant. The outlook seems good. I would just caution
those that will try to "work safe", and to make sure to know what that
means in any context in which one is working--for instance in operating
a table saw.



He's already in way over his head if he can't figure out simple controls.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

"Bill" wrote in message ...
The Daring Dufas wrote:
On 8/6/2012 7:15 AM, Steve wrote:
"Stormin Mormon" wrote in message
...
I'm sure the professionals on alt havoc will help.

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
.

"Daren Friday" wrote in message
news

I've tried 2 other types of stats and all have the same result, the
heating ignores them when room reaches temp.
I've just changed the stat for a Honeywell CM900 and again I get exactly
the same result. If I move the slider to off on the EP3002 everything
closes fine.

I thought maybe I'd wired the stat wrong so I rewired it and now I've
popped the motorised valve (Myson Power Extra MPE228).

I've ordered a replacement valve and EP3002. See how we go?


Keep playing with it, keep breaking and changing parts... you'll
eventually
change something and accitentally "fix" it, *OR* you can call you local
Master Tech and get the problem corrected the first time and be done with
it.


Years ago in the TV repair business we called them "Tube Changers". ^_^

TDD

I recall a tube tester at my local drug store, but I am a little young to remember the big picture. Was "Tube
Changing" frowned upon back then (mid-late 60's?)? We always wore out the dials--we were quick! : )


Now we ware out clicker or remotes!!

I do.

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

"Grumpy" wrote in message
...
Does anyone use AC Meter or Amp-probe????

"Scott Lurndal" wrote in message . ..
Bill writes:
The Daring Dufas wrote:
On 8/6/2012 7:15 AM, Steve wrote:
"Stormin Mormon" wrote in message
...
I'm sure the professionals on alt havoc will help.

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
.

"Daren Friday" wrote in message
news

I've tried 2 other types of stats and all have the same result, the
heating ignores them when room reaches temp.
I've just changed the stat for a Honeywell CM900 and again I get exactly
the same result. If I move the slider to off on the EP3002 everything
closes fine.

I thought maybe I'd wired the stat wrong so I rewired it and now I've
popped the motorised valve (Myson Power Extra MPE228).

I've ordered a replacement valve and EP3002. See how we go?


Keep playing with it, keep breaking and changing parts... you'll
eventually
change something and accitentally "fix" it, *OR* you can call you local
Master Tech and get the problem corrected the first time and be done with
it.


Years ago in the TV repair business we called them "Tube Changers". ^_^

TDD

I recall a tube tester at my local drug store, but I am a little young
to remember the big picture. Was "Tube Changing" frowned upon back then
(mid-late 60's?)?

A good repairman would, given the schematics and a VOM, be able to
determine _which_ tube to change a priori, rather than just swapping out
tubes until the TV works again.

Not really because you need to yank chasy out which on some TVs was big job!!

(although I will admit to using the swap technique to fix a mainframe
once in Brussels).

scott