I’m going to be leveling a concrete floor that is off anywhere from 2 ½” to 8” depending on which are you measure from. I estimate that I will be needing about 85 bags of 90 lbs. concrete. It is too much for me to do it all in one go so I’m thinking of blocking off the floor into three sections and doing it on three different days. I will have to wait for one area to set before going on to the next. Since the floor which I’m going to level is already concrete I’m not going to use any steel mesh but should I use any kind of concrete adhesive on it before I start pouring? I’m not worried about the seams that I’m going to have because the floor will be covered with Thin-Set and ceramic floor tile. My main question is: Is my reasoning sound and am I missing anything. I would appreciate any advice or suggestions anyone has to offer, thank you.

On Tue, 19 Jun 2012 09:23:44 -0700 (PDT),
wrote:

Im going to be leveling a concrete floor that is off anywhere from 2 ½€� to 8€� depending on which are you measure from. I estimate that I will be needing about 85 bags of 90 lbs. concrete. It is too much for me to do it all in one go so Im thinking of blocking off the floor into three sections and doing it on three different
days. I will have to wait for one area to set before going on to the next. Since the floor which Im going to level is already concrete Im not going to use any steel mesh but should I use any kind of concrete adhesive on it before I start pouring? Im not worried about the seams that Im going to have because the floor will be
covered with Thin-Set and ceramic floor tile. My main question is: Is my reasoning sound and am I missing anything. I would appreciate any advice or suggestions anyone has to offer, thank you.
Use white glue bonding agent (PVA) to bond the new concrete. works
spread on the old before pouring new, or mixed into the concrete...
Google PVA Bond

On Jun 19, 12:23*pm, wrote:
I’m going to be leveling a concrete floor that is off anywhere from 2 ½” to 8” depending on which are you measure from. I estimate that I will be needing about 85 bags of 90 lbs. concrete. It is too much for me to do it all in one go so I’m thinking of blocking off the floor into three sections and doing it on three different days. I will have to wait for one area to set before going on to the next. Since the floor which I’m going to level is already concrete I’m not going to use any steel mesh but should I use any kind of concrete adhesive on it before I start pouring? I’m not worried about the seams that I’m going to have because the floor will be covered with Thin-Set and ceramic floor tile. My main question is: Is my reasoning sound and am I missing anything. I would appreciate any advice or suggestions anyone has to offer, thank you.

it will be far cheaper to get a ready mix truck to deliver the already
mixed concrete. they have a self leveling type to get it dead flat. 85
bags cost a fortune

are there any cracks in the existing concrete? if so the overlay will
crack and so will your new tile

theres a mesh you imbead in the thinset but i dont know how effective
it is

On Tue, 19 Jun 2012 10:50:35 -0700 (PDT), bob haller
wrote:

On Jun 19, 12:23*pm, wrote:
I’m going to be leveling a concrete floor that is off anywhere from 2 ½” to 8” depending on which are you measure from. I estimate that I will be needing about 85 bags of 90 lbs. concrete. It is too much for me to do it all in one go so I’m thinking of blocking off the floor into three sections and doing it on three different days. I will have to wait for one area to set before going on to the next. Since the floor which I’m going to level is already concrete I’m not going to use any steel mesh but should I use any kind of concrete adhesive on it before I start pouring? I’m not worried about the seams that I’m going to have because the floor will be covered with Thin-Set and ceramic floor tile. My main question is: Is my reasoning sound and am I missing anything. I would appreciate any advice or suggestions anyone has to offer, thank you.

it will be far cheaper to get a ready mix truck to deliver the already
mixed concrete. they have a self leveling type to get it dead flat. 85
bags cost a fortune

I don't know about 'far cheaper' if all you count is the $'s----- But
it will damn sure be cheaper in the long run, and a *whole* lot
easier.


are there any cracks in the existing concrete? if so the overlay will
crack and so will your new tile

Not to mention-- How did that floor get *that* far off? Is it
unsupported someplace and just waiting for another few tons to send
the whole works tumbling into a hole?


theres a mesh you imbead in the thinset but i dont know how effective
it is

I think I'd go with the fiber embedded concrete. . . . Strike that.
I'd call a couple redi-mix places, tell them what I was up to, and ask
for their recommendation.

Jim

On Jun 19, 2:54*pm, Jim Elbrecht wrote:
On Tue, 19 Jun 2012 10:50:35 -0700 (PDT), bob haller
wrote:

On Jun 19, 12:23 pm, wrote:
I m going to be leveling a concrete floor that is off anywhere from 2 to 8 depending on which are you measure from. I estimate that I will be needing about 85 bags of 90 lbs. concrete. It is too much for me to do it all in one go so I m thinking of blocking off the floor into three sections and doing it on three different days. I will have to wait for one area to set before going on to the next. Since the floor which I m going to level is already concrete I m not going to use any steel mesh but should I use any kind of concrete adhesive on it before I start pouring? I m not worried about the seams that I m going to have because the floor will be covered with Thin-Set and ceramic floor tile. My main question is: Is my reasoning sound and am I missing anything. I would appreciate any advice or suggestions anyone has to offer, thank you.

it will be far cheaper to get a ready mix truck to deliver the already
mixed concrete. they have a self leveling type to get it dead flat. 85
bags cost a fortune

I don't know about 'far cheaper' if all you count is the $'s----- *But
it will damn sure be cheaper in the long run, and a *whole* lot
easier.



are there any cracks in the existing concrete? if so the overlay will
crack and so will your new tile

Not to mention-- How did that floor get *that* far off? * *Is it
unsupported someplace and just waiting for another few tons to send
the whole works tumbling into a hole?



theres a mesh you imbead in the thinset but i dont know how effective
it is

I think I'd go with the fiber embedded concrete. . . . Strike that.
I'd call a couple redi-mix places, tell them what I was up to, and ask
for their recommendation.

Jim

its far cheaper to buy a large quanity of concrete delivered in a
ready mix truck than by the bag. i ran the number for a shed once, by
the bag was about 4 times the cost of delivered

On Jun 19, 2:54*pm, Jim Elbrecht wrote:
On Tue, 19 Jun 2012 10:50:35 -0700 (PDT), bob haller
wrote:

On Jun 19, 12:23 pm, wrote:
I m going to be leveling a concrete floor that is off anywhere from 2 to 8 depending on which are you measure from. I estimate that I will be needing about 85 bags of 90 lbs. concrete. It is too much for me to do it all in one go so I m thinking of blocking off the floor into three sections and doing it on three different days. I will have to wait for one area to set before going on to the next. Since the floor which I m going to level is already concrete I m not going to use any steel mesh but should I use any kind of concrete adhesive on it before I start pouring? I m not worried about the seams that I m going to have because the floor will be covered with Thin-Set and ceramic floor tile. My main question is: Is my reasoning sound and am I missing anything. I would appreciate any advice or suggestions anyone has to offer, thank you.

it will be far cheaper to get a ready mix truck to deliver the already
mixed concrete. they have a self leveling type to get it dead flat. 85
bags cost a fortune

I don't know about 'far cheaper' if all you count is the $'s----- *But
it will damn sure be cheaper in the long run, and a *whole* lot
easier.


+1 to that. I've seen the Holmes crews on TV use some
new cement product for floors like garages and basements.
It comes in a cement truck but is much more liquid like, so
it pretty much self levels. Then they spray it with some liquid that
aids
the curing of the surface. I'd check into it as it sound like
it could be perfect for this application.






are there any cracks in the existing concrete? if so the overlay will
crack and so will your new tile

Not to mention-- How did that floor get *that* far off? * *Is it
unsupported someplace and just waiting for another few tons to send
the whole works tumbling into a hole?

I was wondering that too. If there is some underlying
problem, the new floor could just continue to sink.
8" is one hell of a lot.







theres a mesh you imbead in the thinset but i dont know how effective
it is

I think I'd go with the fiber embedded concrete. . . . Strike that.
I'd call a couple redi-mix places, tell them what I was up to, and ask
for their recommendation.

Jim

+1

wrote:

I’m going to be leveling a concrete floor that is off anywhere
from 2 ½” to 8” depending on which are you measure from.

I estimate that I will be needing about 85 bags of 90 lbs.
concrete.

That's 7650 lbs of concrete (dry ingredients). When you add the water
(estimating 680 lbs of water) that takes you to 8330 lbs. That's about
57 cubic feet of concrete (about 2.13 cubic yards).

Your average depth is about 5 inches. The amount of concrete you're
planning on would cover 138 sq. feet, 5 inches deep. That's almost a
12' x 12' area.

That's a lot of "filler" to level a floor. I don't see why you'd need
so much.

It is too much for me to do it all in one go

With a conventional 3-cf mixer you could do about 1800 lbs in about 3
hours (in 10 batches, each being 180 lbs or 2 bags).

so I’m thinking of blocking off the floor into three sections
and doing it on three different days. I will have to wait for
one area to set before going on to the next.

That's your call, but I still think you're pouring too much to level a
floor.

Since the floor which I’m going to level is already concrete
I’m not going to use any steel mesh but should I use any kind
of concrete adhesive on it before I start pouring?

No.

The slab that you're pouring on top of another slab isin't going
anywhere.

I’m not worried about the seams that I’m going to have
because the floor will be covered with Thin-Set
and ceramic floor tile.

Thin-set on top of 5 inches of new concrete on top of an existing
concrete floor?

My main question is: Is my reasoning sound and am I missing
anything. I would appreciate any advice or suggestions anyone
has to offer, thank you.

You can set ceramic tile directly onto cured concrete using mortar.

How big is this floor (area) anyways?

"Jim Elbrecht" wrote in message
...
it will be far cheaper to get a ready mix truck to deliver the already
mixed concrete. they have a self leveling type to get it dead flat. 85
bags cost a fortune

I don't know about 'far cheaper' if all you count is the $'s----- But
it will damn sure be cheaper in the long run, and a *whole* lot
easier.


are there any cracks in the existing concrete? if so the overlay will
crack and so will your new tile

Not to mention-- How did that floor get *that* far off? Is it
unsupported someplace and just waiting for another few tons to send
the whole works tumbling into a hole?


theres a mesh you imbead in the thinset but i dont know how effective
it is

I think I'd go with the fiber embedded concrete. . . . Strike that.
I'd call a couple redi-mix places, tell them what I was up to, and ask
for their recommendation.


That is about 2 yards of concrete. Many places charge you for about 3 or 4
yards, or add a delivery charge even if you want less. However, when you
get to about 2 yards of the bag do it your self stuff, the price will
probably be the same or cheeper for the delivery even with the extra charge.

I mixed about a yard of concrete to put in a hole just to support a radio
tower. Where I wanted it, a truck could not go and I was not about to move
that much by hand in the time the truck would be there. It took several
hours to do the mixing for 43 bags of the 90 pound and that was with a
rented mixer that I could only put a bag in at a time. The mixer would hold
more, but I could not handle more.

bob haller wrote:

On Jun 19, 2:54*pm, Jim Elbrecht wrote:
On Tue, 19 Jun 2012 10:50:35 -0700 (PDT), bob haller
wrote:

-snip-
it will be far cheaper to get a ready mix truck to deliver the already
mixed concrete. they have a self leveling type to get it dead flat. 85
bags cost a fortune

I don't know about 'far cheaper' if all you count is the $'s----- *But
it will damn sure be cheaper in the long run, and a *whole* lot
easier.

-snip-

its far cheaper to buy a large quanity of concrete delivered in a
ready mix truck than by the bag. i ran the number for a shed once, by
the bag was about 4 times the cost of delivered

The OP is using 90 bags-- 90x44= $360

WAG [if his math is right-- and mine] if he is talking about 80lb bags
he's doing about 1.777 yards.

In my neck of the woods, there is a company that delivers 1 yard if
they can just dump it and run. They don't offer much in the way of
special mixes-- but they'll get you good enough for a pad or sidewalk
section.

Downside is- if you need 1.7 yards, they need to make 2 trips-- and it
is about $200 a load.

Another company charges for 4 yards-- if you use less than 4 yards,
they will deliver it, but you're paying for 4. They also have about
anything you could ever ask for in a mix available, come with some
pretty serious chutes, and an accommodating driver. -- Just don't keep
him past whatever the 'dump time' is supposed to be-- Then it gets
expensive.

That's who I used last time-- That was 2004 & it was $400 for 5
yards. [turned out to be the same price as for 4 yards-- so I poured
a pad and a couple of steps]

I think it might cost a few bucks more for the OP- unless he is in a
unique area-- but it will save him a boatload of aggravation and he'll
end up with a better job.

Jim

On Tue, 19 Jun 2012 09:23:44 -0700 (PDT),
wrote:

I estimate that I will be needing about 85 bags of 90 lbs.

Is my reasoning sound and am I missing anything.

IMO, anyone wanting to mix 85 bags of concrete is not of sound mind
and is not reasoning at all. Get reddi-mix delivered and have help
standing by.

On Jun 19, 9:23*am, wrote:
I’m going to be leveling a concrete floor that is off anywhere from 2 ½” to 8” depending on which are you measure from. I estimate that I will be needing about 85 bags of 90 lbs. concrete. It is too much for me to do it all in one go so I’m thinking of blocking off the floor into three sections and doing it on three different days. I will have to wait for one area to set before going on to the next. Since the floor which I’m going to level is already concrete I’m not going to use any steel mesh but should I use any kind of concrete adhesive on it before I start pouring? I’m not worried about the seams that I’m going to have because the floor will be covered with Thin-Set and ceramic floor tile. My main question is: Is my reasoning sound and am I missing anything. I would appreciate any advice or suggestions anyone has to offer, thank you.



I hope you're leveling a floor that is a slab on grade.
You'll be adding 30 to 100 lbs/ sq ft, not a big deal to a slab on
grade but a load to be concerned about if the slab is elevated.

If there are cracks in the existing floor they will likely telegraph
through your new unreinforced overlay.

You're adding ~ 2 yds (~8000 lbs) of new concrete..... way too much
to mix by hand.

How did the floor get so far out of level?

cheers
Bob

wrote:
I’m going to be leveling a concrete floor that is off anywhere from 2
½” to 8” depending on which are you measure from. I estimate that I
will be needing about 85 bags of 90 lbs. concrete. It is too much for
me to do it all in one go so I’m thinking of blocking off the floor
into three sections and doing it on three different days. I will have
to wait for one area to set before going on to the next. Since the
floor which I’m going to level is already concrete I’m not going to
use any steel mesh but should I use any kind of concrete adhesive on
it before I start pouring? I’m not worried about the seams that I’m
going to have because the floor will be covered with Thin-Set and
ceramic floor tile. My main question is: Is my reasoning sound and am
I missing anything. I would appreciate any advice or suggestions
anyone has to offer, thank you.

Without more information, it may be difficult for people to provide the best
feedback.

My thoughts would be (like others) to consider why the original floor is so
out of level. Also, adding up to 8 inches of concrete on top as a way to
level it seems to be way too much concrete, more expensive than necessary,
and may add too much weight to the existing concrete floor.

How thick is the original floor? Could you break it up with a rented
jackhammer and then create a new level base for the new concrete floor?

Or, if you are still committed to idea of just leaving the original floor in
place and adding a new floor on top, maybe it would be possible to use a
modified or crushed stone base as a filler for the deeper areas and then
pour a less thick concrete floor on top of that. I don't know what type of
filler or base material would be best if you do this idea, but maybe others
here would know.

But, since the OP appears to have posted his question and then did not
return to read the responses, it may not matter what suggestions people here
offer.

wrote in message
...
I’m going to be leveling a concrete floor that is off anywhere from 2 ½” to
8” depending on which are you measure from. I estimate that I will be
needing about 85 bags of 90 lbs. concrete. It is too much for me to do it
all in one go so I’m thinking of blocking off the floor into three sections
and doing it on three different days. I will have to wait for one area to
set before going on to the next. Since the floor which I’m going to level is
already concrete I’m not going to use any steel mesh but should I use any
kind of concrete adhesive on it before I start pouring? I’m not worried
about the seams that I’m going to have because the floor will be covered
with Thin-Set and ceramic floor tile. My main question is: Is my reasoning
sound and am I missing anything. I would appreciate any advice or
suggestions anyone has to offer, thank you.

***

You are going to end up with a crappy job. No way any man can do that much
concrete, measure each one exactly the same, mix it into a homogeneous mix,
pour it, finish it, and do them all exactly the same. AND come up with a
flat level surface to put tile on to. You will find this out later if you
do it this way when all the cracks start to show through. Or the finished
job has more contours than a Jack Nicklaus golf course green.

My SO, having absolutely no idea how such a job is done suggested almost the
same thing for me to do for a shop floor instead of paying a concrete crew
to come in and do it. Yeah, right. I'm going to make up 12 cubic yards,
two 85# sacks at a time, and use enough boards to accurately get that many
little squares, and they are all going to stay put and not sag or settle.
AND I'm going to end up with a floor I can easily roll a 1,000# item over on
casters. I ended the conversation by apologizing for bringing it up, then
went out and slammed my hand in the car door to remind myself never to do
that again.

Do it once, and do it right. Get a truck in there.

What's up with the severe slope?

Steve

"Ralph Mowery" wrote

I mixed about a yard of concrete to put in a hole just to support a radio
tower. Where I wanted it, a truck could not go and I was not about to
move that much by hand in the time the truck would be there. It took
several hours to do the mixing for 43 bags of the 90 pound and that was
with a rented mixer that I could only put a bag in at a time. The mixer
would hold more, but I could not handle more.

Around here, there is a company that has one and one and a half yard
trailers. You go pick it up, and bring it back clean. A good way to go if
you can have access to the site. Standing time on any concrete job can cost
you as much as the mud, plus it deteriorates after so much agitation.

Steve

"Ed Pawlowski" wrote


IMO, anyone wanting to mix 85 bags of concrete is not of sound mind
and is not reasoning at all. Get reddi-mix delivered and have help
standing by.

I think that most men have done it ONCE. The dumb ones.

Steve

On Wed, 20 Jun 2012 16:34:27 -0700, "Steve B"
wrote:


"Ed Pawlowski" wrote


IMO, anyone wanting to mix 85 bags of concrete is not of sound mind
and is not reasoning at all. Get reddi-mix delivered and have help
standing by.

I think that most men have done it ONCE. The dumb ones.


Hey-- I resemble that remark!

At least it was just under a yard-- about half of what the op
proposes--- and it was a driveway, so the surface wasn't as critical
as inside.

Jim

"Jim Elbrecht" wrote

Hey-- I resemble that remark!

At least it was just under a yard-- about half of what the op
proposes--- and it was a driveway, so the surface wasn't as critical
as inside.

Jim

I have dumped enough concrete into a mixer out of a sack to know when it's a
bad idea. For small things, you can't beat it. To a point.

Every man has to know his limitations.

Steve

"Jim Elbrecht" wrote

At least it was just under a yard-- about half of what the op
proposes--- and it was a driveway, so the surface wasn't as critical
as inside.

Jim

My FIL bought a house that was an easy 300' off the street. He had a crew
of about eight men on his offshore job. On off time from offshore, we would
pour a section. Afterward, there was always plenty of beer and barbecue.
He ended up with a really nice driveway. I guess a couple of the guys knew
enough. And there were enough guys to shovel the mud where it went, and
float and broom it. It was actually easy, BUT, there were experienced
people there, enough of them, and they dumped the mud right off the truck
into the forms.

Right now, a guy in my neighborhood wants $3600 for 960 sf of concrete,
formed, poured, and finished. Concrete included @ about $100 per yard.

I sure wish I had a crew right now, and could do it myself. I figure I
could do it for half that.

Steve

On Wed, 20 Jun 2012 19:13:08 -0700, "Steve B"
wrote:


"Jim Elbrecht" wrote

Hey-- I resemble that remark!

At least it was just under a yard-- about half of what the op
proposes--- and it was a driveway, so the surface wasn't as critical
as inside.

Jim

I have dumped enough concrete into a mixer out of a sack to know when it's a
bad idea. For small things, you can't beat it. To a point.

Every man has to know his limitations.

Steve

When I was 14/15 I fed the mixer and wheelbarrowed concrete to install
new stable cleaner in the dairy barn, new stabling where the horse
stalls got taken out (I swung the sledge for that project too), new
floors in the hog stable and half the manure yard. I was mixing and
hauling pretty well from sun-up to sundown for close to 2 weeks except
for chore time between 1st cut hay and wheat harvest (end of june).
When I ran out of gravel I had to go out to the pit with the loader
and bring in a few more buckets full (thankfully only a hundred yards
or less from the barn). Can't remember how many bags we went through,
but it was a 2 bag mixer if I remember correctly. The boss was a slave
driver - and he levelled the concrete as fast as I could haul it.

wrote in message
...
On Wed, 20 Jun 2012 19:13:08 -0700, "Steve B"
wrote:


"Jim Elbrecht" wrote

Hey-- I resemble that remark!

At least it was just under a yard-- about half of what the op
proposes--- and it was a driveway, so the surface wasn't as critical
as inside.

Jim

I have dumped enough concrete into a mixer out of a sack to know when it's
a
bad idea. For small things, you can't beat it. To a point.

Every man has to know his limitations.

Steve

When I was 14/15 I fed the mixer and wheelbarrowed concrete to install
new stable cleaner in the dairy barn, new stabling where the horse
stalls got taken out (I swung the sledge for that project too), new
floors in the hog stable and half the manure yard. I was mixing and
hauling pretty well from sun-up to sundown for close to 2 weeks except
for chore time between 1st cut hay and wheat harvest (end of june).
When I ran out of gravel I had to go out to the pit with the loader
and bring in a few more buckets full (thankfully only a hundred yards
or less from the barn). Can't remember how many bags we went through,
but it was a 2 bag mixer if I remember correctly. The boss was a slave
driver - and he levelled the concrete as fast as I could haul it.

YOU HAD HELP???!!!

Steve