On Fri, 8 Jun 2012 02:10:54 +0000 (UTC), gregz wrote:

" wrote:
On Fri, 8 Jun 2012 00:19:23 +0000 (UTC), gregz wrote:

DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Jun 7, 12:37 pm, "
wrote:
On Thu, 7 Jun 2012 07:40:28 -0400, "Stormin Mormon"

wrote:
My parents were both smokers. I had ear infections often. And, one got left
too long, the infection damaged my hearing. I'll have to wear hearing aids
for the rest of my life.

Anecdote evidence
Corelatoin causation

My son had terrible ear infections, too. No smoke involved at all. He grew
out of it.

Folks, please do not smoke around children, ever. Better, do not smoke,
ever.

Good idea, but not realistic. The smoking rate in the US is rather low,
actually.

Maybe the smoking rate is low compared to other countries, but the
price of smoking is rediculous.

When I worked in a corner drugstore you could buy a carton of
cigarettes for about $2.50. I'm sure that there are others in this
group who remember even lower prices, since those were NYC prices.

Today, the price of a single pack is four times that amount, going
even higher when the new taxes hit in July.

http://www.marketplace.org/topics/ne...y-now-costs-11

For someone who averages a pack a day, they could quit, lease a luxury
car for that amount of money and smell so much better besides.

Pa. Makes a billion dollars a year in cigarette taxes. If all quit,
everyone's tax would have to increase by $166.

But that's supposed to pay for smoking education and such. If no one smoked,
there wouldn't be any need for that money, right? ;-)

They spend some on that, mostly they need the money, bad, like most places.
Here in Pennsylvania.

Yeah, it never occurred to anyone to live within their means. It makes
getting elected harder and it's expensive defending against a recall.

On Jun 7, 10:02*pm, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On Thu, 7 Jun 2012 06:58:28 -0700 (PDT), TimR
wrote:



Very likely it is not a draft. *Are you near a window? *It is common
to feel radiative heat loss from your warm body to a cold surface, and
think it is air movement when it is really not.

Just as common to feel the draft from a cold window as the air cools
and drops. *Need proof? Come to my office on a cold day and sit in my
chair with the window in back of me.

Uh, how is that proof? You'll feel cold with either mechanism.

On Jun 7, 9:16*am, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Jun 6, 11:31*pm, Evan wrote:









On Jun 6, 4:30*pm, DerbyDad03 wrote:

On Jun 6, 3:56*pm, Evan wrote:

On Jun 6, 3:46*pm, DerbyDad03 wrote:

On Jun 6, 10:49*am, mcp6453 wrote:

My office is in a cubicle. There is a draft on the back of my neck. The only
vent in my cube or within 5 feet of it are closed. The walls on the cube are 8
feet tall.

I've tried a cigarette lighter, my hand, and a suspended Kleenex to find the
darn breeze so that I can block it. The temperature is not bad; it's the draft.
What creative ideas do you guys have for finding the source of air flow? (The
HVAC guy couldn't tell me where it's coming from. I think the building has weird
air currents flowing in it.)

If they will allow it, get some Smoke Matches from Grainger.

http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/Smoke-Matches-3KLK4

I used them to check the airflow in my attic.

Be aware of nearby smoke detectors. Maybe have the HVAC guy nearby and
let your manager know first so that no one is surprised by the smoke.

ROFL...

The smoke detectors you can see in the office are only
part of what you have to worry about, commercial buildings
also have smoke detectors inside the HVAC duct work as
well...

Definitely not something for an employee to do to try and
locate a "draft"... *Possibly not even for the OP's employer
to do if they are only a tenant in the building...

The "best cost": or "least cost" option here is for the OP
to request a new desk assignment from the office
manager...- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Requesting a new desk assignment can be more costly than one might
imagine.

First off, there has to be a someplace to swap to, someplace that
doesn't impact work flow. If there were an issue in my office, moving
to a new location would be next to impossible since I'm part of a team
that interacts with each other, face to face, constantly throughout
the day. There are no "spare" offices anywhere near mine. In fact,
there aren't even any open offices on my floor. I know all about
"global teams" (I've been on a few) and I know the saying that "the
world is flat", but if our team wasn't grouped within shouting
distance we would be much less efficient. The same goes for other
teams in our office, so simply swapping offices with someone who might
not mind the draft wouldn't be cost effective in the long run.

Phone and computer access *might* be as easy as swapping a few plugs
in a closet or it might involve much more, depending on LAN
configurations, phone numbers that ring on more than one phone, access
to shared servers, and location, location, location. Parts of our
office building - within the same company - have different prefixes
for phone numbers and a move from one side of the building to another
would mean a change of phone numbers, which leads to new business
cards, letterhead, etc., all of which have both a direct and indirect
monetary impact.

All I'm saying is that it may not be easy or even cost effective to
move the employee just to avoid a draft.

Umm, yeah, it is... *Unless your employer is using rather old
and outdated equipment... *Contacting the landlord or HVAC
technicians over a "draft" which will never be able to be corrected
because it has been a feature of that space since its last
physical remodel all over one employee's "comfort" is expensive...
There are required ventilation room air changes per hour, bringing
in enough outside air and having it preconditioned to offset the
CO2 being given off by the workers and also the capacity to
quickly remove smoke from the building via using some of the
same fans... *You are now discussing an engineering problem
which would be more than the HVAC technician adjusting
a louver on a vent grille...

If you are talking an "office" that means you are an employee of
a certain level of prestige, rather than desk/workspace... *An office
has four walls (floor to ceiling), a ceiling and a lockable door that
no one can reach over from the outside and open...
A desk/workspace may not have those features...

If moving from one side of the building to the other at your employer
means changing phone numbers those sections of the building
are either served by entirely separate phone systems or the system
is old enough to require physically altering the wiring to accomplish
the move...

Moving someone from one work station to any other in offices with
equipment installed in the past 10 years is a matter of port swapping
within the phone system dynamically using the system software
without making any hardware or wiring changes... *Computer ? *LOL
most people's office computers won't allow them to save or alter
files locally and they are merely accessing a set of working and
personal folders on a network drive so the computer itself is not
moved nor requires any changes beyond perhaps reconfiguring
the employee's user account to allow them to log on from their
new desk location...

A workgroup that is assigned the same project need not work
all within the exact same physical space, yeah, it is very
convenient when they can, but this is not always possible,
that is why there are conference spaces for small group
meetings in most office areas... *If your team brought in a
new staff member right now, they would not relocate other
employees which are not a part of that group from the surrounding
cubicles to make space for that one person, they would get
a desk somewhere...

You should feel somewhat lucky if your office is at 100%
population, that means that your employer is either doing
really well, or could mean that you are headed for troubled
times ahead... *Either way, by not having any empty expansion
space anywhere in your working unit, whomever is in charge
of space utilization is not doing their job properly because there
is no way to add someone to any given project without relocating
someone else who isn't working on that project...

Most employers also tend to have empty cubicles around
for when traveling employees are in town, an employee that
normally telecommutes has to be present in the office for
some reason and for itinerant projects like tax season/auditing
type projects where outside agents need to do work on the
premises without closing off access to the conference space
to all the other employees while that work takes place...- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Everything you've said is absoulutely correct...in a perfect world.

You appear to know enough about the business environment to know that
the perfect world rarely exists in the real world.

While it's easy to sit far away from the actual situation and say
"Tell your manager that you want to move to a different cubicle. It's
the least expensive alternative.", I'm sure you are aware that there
are so many other variables involved that it's often not as easy - or
inexpensive - as it sounds.

Only the OP can tells us if moving is a viable option in their
specific situation.

Umm, the difference between moving someone who
claims that they are experiencing some sort of workplace
malady due to "phantom drafts" is in fact the cheapest
and most practical solution to what most of the time
is a psychosomatic problem... The act of physically
moving the employee from the location they feel
uncomfortable in to a new one is usually enough of
a Placebo to "cure" the malady being experienced
by that one employee...

Calling in HVAC technicians or the landlord/maintenance
staff may not resolve the situation in that same way,
as no actual work may end up being performed and the
employer can not LIE to an employee who raises an
environmental concern which is creating an impact on
their productivity, real or imaginary... Again, even if
there was a draft which actually existed, it is a feature
of the space which has existed since the last physical
remodel of the area... Trying to "fix" it would mean more
than just adjusting a vent grille... Trying to fix a draft
in one section or area could create balancing issues
with adjacent zones...

So yes, physically moving the employee to a new
desk/workspace assignment is in fact the best ROI
on first cost and continued costs rather than trying
to reinvent the wheel as far as the space in question's
HVAC systems... This allows the employer to
accommodate the employee in the best possible way,
as any further complaints by the same individual after
the move to a new location would potentially clue the
employer into the most likely possible cause of the
problem is some unknown/undiagnosed/untreated
issue specific to the one employee if there are not
other staff complaints of the same environmental
conditions...

On Jun 7, 10:18*pm, Mark wrote:
to the OP..

the draft is probably coming from the register vent even if it
"closed" they usually aren't really fully closed..

It is a shame that so much energy is wasted over air conditioning so
many buildings..

My suggestion to you is to wear warm clothes to work and get a desk
lamp with a 75 Watt incandescent spot light bulb to shine on your
hands, it will keep you warm.. or a floor lamp an shine it on your
back..

the extra warm light is nice too...

Mark

Energy wasted ? Wow... You clearly do not know how
efficiently some central plant air conditioning systems
use energy... Also, running the air circulating fans under
most outside conditions would cause serious indoor air
quality issues if you did not also operate the cooling
equipment at the same time as moist indoor air would
be drawn into the building and duct work and would
encourage the growth of mold and fungi...

And yes, closing the fins on an air register does not
"close" it off, because the occupants of a space are
not supposed to be able to create air balancing issues
by adjusting such things which could limit the fresh
air being distributed to the space...

On Jun 8, 4:09*pm, Evan wrote:
On Jun 7, 10:18*pm, Mark wrote:



to the OP..

the draft is probably coming from the register vent even if it
"closed" they usually aren't really fully closed..

It is a shame that so much energy is wasted over air conditioning so
many buildings..

My suggestion to you is to wear warm clothes to work and get a desk
lamp with a 75 Watt incandescent spot light bulb to shine on your
hands, it will keep you warm.. or a floor lamp an shine it on your
back..

the extra warm light is nice too...

Mark

Energy wasted ? *Wow... *You clearly do not know how
efficiently some central plant air conditioning systems
use energy... *Also, running the air circulating fans under
most outside conditions would cause serious indoor air
quality issues if you did not also operate the cooling
equipment at the same time as moist indoor air would
be drawn into the building and duct work and would
encourage the growth of mold and fungi...



I think you may have mis-interpreted me..
I said its a shame so much energy is wasted __OVER__ air-
conditioning...

meaning that many places are air conditioned to the point where the
occupants are COLD..

Mark

I have, personally, literally, and in the flesh.
Seen women using electric plug in space heater,
in an air conditioned area. while wearing sweatters,
and still being cold.

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

"Mark" wrote in message news:d9ea09b1-ca27-4c17-b7f7-

I said its a shame so much energy is wasted
__OVER__ air-conditioning...

meaning that many places are air conditioned
to the point where the occupants are COLD..

Mark

"Stormin Mormon" wrote:
I have, personally, literally, and in the flesh.
Seen women using electric plug in space heater,
in an air conditioned area. while wearing sweatters,
and still being cold.

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
.

"Mark" wrote in message news:d9ea09b1-ca27-4c17-b7f7-

I said its a shame so much energy is wasted
__OVER__ air-conditioning...

meaning that many places are air conditioned
to the point where the occupants are COLD..

Mark

I have seen that. I have done that. I had vents blow on me. I go up feel
around, cut cardboard to divert.I worked in a computer type room where the
floor was pressurized, flowing into racks of equipment. My device needed
high flow, so I think they jacked everything cooler. Mostly wore a jacket,
bitched, drew signs. Come on in, it's KOOL.

Greg

On Jun 8, 10:00*pm, Mark wrote:
On Jun 8, 4:09*pm, Evan wrote:









On Jun 7, 10:18*pm, Mark wrote:

to the OP..

the draft is probably coming from the register vent even if it
"closed" they usually aren't really fully closed..

It is a shame that so much energy is wasted over air conditioning so
many buildings..

My suggestion to you is to wear warm clothes to work and get a desk
lamp with a 75 Watt incandescent spot light bulb to shine on your
hands, it will keep you warm.. or a floor lamp an shine it on your
back..

the extra warm light is nice too...

Mark

Energy wasted ? *Wow... *You clearly do not know how
efficiently some central plant air conditioning systems
use energy... *Also, running the air circulating fans under
most outside conditions would cause serious indoor air
quality issues if you did not also operate the cooling
equipment at the same time as moist indoor air would
be drawn into the building and duct work and would
encourage the growth of mold and fungi...

I think you may have mis-interpreted me..
I said its a shame so much energy is wasted __OVER__ air-
conditioning...

meaning that many places are air conditioned to the point where the
occupants are COLD..

Mark

Yeah, well, even in the most fancy corporate headquarters
you aren't going to see every room with its own HVAC
zone... The only time you see that kind of performance
is with unit ventilators... With air handling units you typically
have a main trunk line providing air at a given temperature
set point which has been mixed with fresh outside air and
return air from the building and you have VAV boxes modulating
or mixing that supply air with air recirculating from the
conditioned space by opening and closing dampers to meet
the thermostats call for heating or cooling within that zone...

One VAV box often serves a space which is divided up
by partitions and may be controlled by several thermostats
and the zone must operate if any one of those multiple
thermostats is still calling for heating or cooling...
So your office might be on one side of the building and
need more cooling in the morning than in the afternoon
but because it is one zone some are cold in the mornings
and others in the afternoon because the changing heat
gain from windows throughout the day...

If the space is too cold all of the time you look at one
or more of the room air temp sensors being faulty or
poorly located... Examples: Don't put the sensor where
it can be exposed to direct sunlight as that will effect
how it controls the room air temperature... I have also
seen an office where all of the occupants were cold
all of the time during the summer -- the problem was
that all of the walls in the office area had 80-somthing
inch tall lateral files along them except where there
were doorways... Some genius decided to locate
the two photocopiers directly under the zone sensor
for room air temperature... So furniture and equipment
placement can sometimes be causing issues...