If you're having trouble paying the cost of gasoline in 2012, there is a
workable solution.

As you're aware, the government and others keep telling you that you
need to tune up your car, make sure your tires are inflated properly,
and change your oil. These are all excellent tips, but some cars just
dont get the best mileage. Of course the government also suggests
getting a energy efficient car. Well, I'd be happy to do that, but
first they will have to send me a check to cover the cost of buying one.
Until that happens (which will be the same day that pigs fly), I'll have
to drive my older car that is not the most efficient.

This has lead me to devise a program to be able to afford the gas. I
found one that works.

1. EATING
Rather than eating 3 meals a day, cut back to 3 meals a week. Eat at
your regular dinner hour on Sunday, Wednesday, and Friday. To save even
more money, cut your regular portion in half. And be sure to cut out
all snacking and alcoholic beverages.

2. BATHING
Americans have always been obcessed with cleanliness, but they have been
over doing it. Rather than taking a bath or shower daily, cut back to
one bath or shower per week. This will save on your water bill and gas
or electric bill for your water heating.

3. LAUNDRY
Laundering is over rated. You dont need to change your clothing daily.
Wear the same clothing for at least two weeks before changing, and
always wait until you have a full load before operating a washing
machine.

4. HEATING - COOLING - COOKING
Home heating and cooling is comfortable, but unnecessary. Shut off your
furnace, air conditioning, and other heating/cooling devices. While
you're at it, unplug your refrigerator and freezer, and stop cooking
your food. All these things consume energy. You can store and eat food
at room temperature, and most foods do not need to be cooked.

5. RENT - MORTGAGE
Rent and/or mortgages are some of your largest monthly expenses. You
could probably fill your entire auto gas tank with what you pay to have
a roof over your head. Why are you paying that, when you already have a
roof on your car. Simply move out of your home and move into your car.
You'll still have a roof over your head, and you'll save a lot of money
for home rental or mortgage.

6. ENTERTAINMENT
Simply put, you dont need entertainment. Eliminate it entirely.

7. PHONE - TV - INTERNET
While you might think you can not live without your cell or home phone,
you dont need it. None of your phone calls are important. In earlier
centuries, people did not have phones or internet, or even tv. You dont
need these things. Just keep a cellphone without service. You can
still dial 911 from them, which is all you need. Get rid of all
electronics.

8. MEDICAL CARE
Most doctor visits are unnecessary. Unless you're on your death bed,
you dont need a doctor. Learn to apply bandages and prescribe medicines
for yourself. Only go to doctors when you're dying or very severely
injured.


Do these things, and you should be able to afford gas for your car.
Just remember, you're paying higher prices, but the poor guys from the
oil companies are hungry and lack other necessities in life. They badly
need your money. You need to help them. By doing the things (above),
you will be able to buy more fuel, and in the process, you'll be doing a
good deed for the oil company executives and employees.

Gas prices will likely continue to rise in the future. Dont be
surprised when it hits $25 a gallon in the near future. In order to
continue driving, you'll have to make more cut-backs in life. If you
can think of other cut-backs, add them to this list. By the year 2014,
over 90% of your earnings will be going to the oil companies. You need
to prepare now. The oil companies are depending on it and on you.
Don't let them down!!!!

On 3/28/2012 5:16 AM, wrote:

Gas prices will likely continue to rise in the future. Dont be
surprised when it hits $25 a gallon in the near future. In order to
continue driving, you'll have to make more cut-backs in life. If you
can think of other cut-backs, add them to this list. By the year 2014,
over 90% of your earnings will be going to the oil companies. You need
to prepare now. The oil companies are depending on it and on you.
Don't let them down!!!!


Yes, that's the spirit! If each and every one of us sacrifices just a
little bit, the people at the top can live really well.

How about if we just stop paying taxes?

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

wrote in message
...
If you're having trouble paying the cost of gasoline in 2012, there is a
workable solution.

As you're aware, the government and others keep telling you that you
need to tune up your car, make sure your tires are inflated properly,
and change your oil. These are all excellent tips, but some cars just
dont get the best mileage. Of course the government also suggests
getting a energy efficient car. Well, I'd be happy to do that, but
first they will have to send me a check to cover the cost of buying one.
Until that happens (which will be the same day that pigs fly), I'll have
to drive my older car that is not the most efficient.

This has lead me to devise a program to be able to afford the gas. I
found one that works.

1. EATING
Rather than eating 3 meals a day, cut back to 3 meals a week. Eat at
your regular dinner hour on Sunday, Wednesday, and Friday. To save even
more money, cut your regular portion in half. And be sure to cut out
all snacking and alcoholic beverages.

2. BATHING
Americans have always been obcessed with cleanliness, but they have been
over doing it. Rather than taking a bath or shower daily, cut back to
one bath or shower per week. This will save on your water bill and gas
or electric bill for your water heating.

3. LAUNDRY
Laundering is over rated. You dont need to change your clothing daily.
Wear the same clothing for at least two weeks before changing, and
always wait until you have a full load before operating a washing
machine.

4. HEATING - COOLING - COOKING
Home heating and cooling is comfortable, but unnecessary. Shut off your
furnace, air conditioning, and other heating/cooling devices. While
you're at it, unplug your refrigerator and freezer, and stop cooking
your food. All these things consume energy. You can store and eat food
at room temperature, and most foods do not need to be cooked.

5. RENT - MORTGAGE
Rent and/or mortgages are some of your largest monthly expenses. You
could probably fill your entire auto gas tank with what you pay to have
a roof over your head. Why are you paying that, when you already have a
roof on your car. Simply move out of your home and move into your car.
You'll still have a roof over your head, and you'll save a lot of money
for home rental or mortgage.

6. ENTERTAINMENT
Simply put, you dont need entertainment. Eliminate it entirely.

7. PHONE - TV - INTERNET
While you might think you can not live without your cell or home phone,
you dont need it. None of your phone calls are important. In earlier
centuries, people did not have phones or internet, or even tv. You dont
need these things. Just keep a cellphone without service. You can
still dial 911 from them, which is all you need. Get rid of all
electronics.

8. MEDICAL CARE
Most doctor visits are unnecessary. Unless you're on your death bed,
you dont need a doctor. Learn to apply bandages and prescribe medicines
for yourself. Only go to doctors when you're dying or very severely
injured.


Do these things, and you should be able to afford gas for your car.
Just remember, you're paying higher prices, but the poor guys from the
oil companies are hungry and lack other necessities in life. They badly
need your money. You need to help them. By doing the things (above),
you will be able to buy more fuel, and in the process, you'll be doing a
good deed for the oil company executives and employees.

Gas prices will likely continue to rise in the future. Dont be
surprised when it hits $25 a gallon in the near future. In order to
continue driving, you'll have to make more cut-backs in life. If you
can think of other cut-backs, add them to this list. By the year 2014,
over 90% of your earnings will be going to the oil companies. You need
to prepare now. The oil companies are depending on it and on you.
Don't let them down!!!!

wrote:

If you're having trouble paying the cost of gasoline in 2012,
there is a workable solution.

How about not buying an iSlave device everytime a new model comes out?

How about not buying an iPad or tablet in the first place - since you
know it's just a toy that you'll end up putting to trivial use.

How about not paying for your kid to have a cell phone? How about not
having kids in the first place? (now there's your real money pit right
there).

How about not having a cell phone yourself? I don't own one, and I get
along just fine, and keep an extra $50 to $100 a month in my pocket.

wrote:
If you're having trouble paying the cost of gasoline in 2012, there is a
workable solution.

As you're aware, the government and others keep telling you that you
need to tune up your car, make sure your tires are inflated properly,
and change your oil. These are all excellent tips, but some cars just
dont get the best mileage. Of course the government also suggests
getting a energy efficient car. Well, I'd be happy to do that, but
first they will have to send me a check to cover the cost of buying one.
Until that happens (which will be the same day that pigs fly), I'll have
to drive my older car that is not the most efficient.

This has lead me to devise a program to be able to afford the gas. I
found one that works.

1. EATING
Rather than eating 3 meals a day, cut back to 3 meals a week. Eat at
your regular dinner hour on Sunday, Wednesday, and Friday. To save even
more money, cut your regular portion in half. And be sure to cut out
all snacking and alcoholic beverages.

2. BATHING
Americans have always been obcessed with cleanliness, but they have been
over doing it. Rather than taking a bath or shower daily, cut back to
one bath or shower per week. This will save on your water bill and gas
or electric bill for your water heating.

3. LAUNDRY
Laundering is over rated. You dont need to change your clothing daily.
Wear the same clothing for at least two weeks before changing, and
always wait until you have a full load before operating a washing
machine.

4. HEATING - COOLING - COOKING
Home heating and cooling is comfortable, but unnecessary. Shut off your
furnace, air conditioning, and other heating/cooling devices. While
you're at it, unplug your refrigerator and freezer, and stop cooking
your food. All these things consume energy. You can store and eat food
at room temperature, and most foods do not need to be cooked.

5. RENT - MORTGAGE
Rent and/or mortgages are some of your largest monthly expenses. You
could probably fill your entire auto gas tank with what you pay to have
a roof over your head. Why are you paying that, when you already have a
roof on your car. Simply move out of your home and move into your car.
You'll still have a roof over your head, and you'll save a lot of money
for home rental or mortgage.

6. ENTERTAINMENT
Simply put, you dont need entertainment. Eliminate it entirely.

7. PHONE - TV - INTERNET
While you might think you can not live without your cell or home phone,
you dont need it. None of your phone calls are important. In earlier
centuries, people did not have phones or internet, or even tv. You dont
need these things. Just keep a cellphone without service. You can
still dial 911 from them, which is all you need. Get rid of all
electronics.

8. MEDICAL CARE
Most doctor visits are unnecessary. Unless you're on your death bed,
you dont need a doctor. Learn to apply bandages and prescribe medicines
for yourself. Only go to doctors when you're dying or very severely
injured.


Do these things, and you should be able to afford gas for your car.
Just remember, you're paying higher prices, but the poor guys from the
oil companies are hungry and lack other necessities in life. They badly
need your money. You need to help them. By doing the things (above),
you will be able to buy more fuel, and in the process, you'll be doing a
good deed for the oil company executives and employees.

Gas prices will likely continue to rise in the future. Dont be
surprised when it hits $25 a gallon in the near future. In order to
continue driving, you'll have to make more cut-backs in life. If you
can think of other cut-backs, add them to this list. By the year 2014,
over 90% of your earnings will be going to the oil companies. You need
to prepare now. The oil companies are depending on it and on you.
Don't let them down!!!!



God I love the smell of "Hope and Change in the morning."

On 3/28/2012 8:01 AM, Stormin Mormon wrote:
How about if we just stop paying taxes?

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
.

The profit on a gallon of gas is probably about 5% of the tax.

I'm telling you but you won't hear the president tell you

Of course the government also suggests
getting a energy efficient car. Well, I'd be happy to do that, but
first they will have to send me a check to cover the cost of buying one.


I bought a good gas mileage car 5 years ago for $1000 when gas prices
were starting to rise the first time around.

If you have purchased a low gas mileage car since then, well who is to
blame for that?

Home Guy wrote in :

wrote:

If you're having trouble paying the cost of gasoline in 2012,
there is a workable solution.

How about not buying an iSlave device everytime a new model comes out?

I'm there. Don't have one.


How about not buying an iPad or tablet in the first place - since you
know it's just a toy that you'll end up putting to trivial use.

I'm there. Don't have one.


How about not paying for your kid to have a cell phone? How about not
having kids in the first place? (now there's your real money pit right
there).

I'm there. Don't pay it.


How about not having a cell phone yourself? I don't own one, and I get
along just fine, and keep an extra $50 to $100 a month in my pocket.


I'm there. Don't have one.
Confession/technicality: I have one. Just no service.)

Stormin Mormon wrote:
How about if we just stop paying taxes?

How about riding a bike? No more traffic jam and a lot less fat which in the
end makes people ride faster.

On 3/28/2012 9:02 PM, Pin wrote:
Stormin Mormon wrote:
How about if we just stop paying taxes?

How about riding a bike? No more traffic jam and a lot less fat which in the
end makes people ride faster.


My 24 foot extension ladder just won't fit on a bike. ^_^

TDD

I'm looking forward to a contractor company, some where, using only GM Smart
cars. Of course, it's for the children. However, it takes 10 men and 10
smart cars to carry what one man can carry in a panel van. And, it takes two
for a ladder, one Smart car on each end of the ladder.

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

"The Daring Dufas" wrote in message
...
On 3/28/2012 9:02 PM, Pin wrote:
Stormin Mormon wrote:
How about if we just stop paying taxes?

How about riding a bike? No more traffic jam and a lot less fat which in
the
end makes people ride faster.


My 24 foot extension ladder just won't fit on a bike. ^_^

TDD

"Stormin Mormon" wrote in
:

I'm looking forward to a contractor company, some where, using only GM
Smart cars. Of course, it's for the children. However, it takes 10 men
and 10 smart cars to carry what one man can carry in a panel van. And,
it takes two for a ladder, one Smart car on each end of the ladder.

The Smart car is not GM. It's made by Daimler nowadays. My nephew was
driving me as the passenger in one of them over roads in the suburbs of
Paris. Despite the ardent wishes of my better half for such a vehicle,
there is no chance whatsoever of this household ever acquiring one. The
reason my underwear stayed dry on that ride was lack of fluids taken in
before. Also, for a car of that size and weight, the mileage is awful.
The ride was OK, but sitting right on top of the road with nothing in front
and a maniac* driving, was no fun.

*Sorry, Frank, no offense, I wasn't too awake, I think. The surprised look
on your Mother's face made it all worth it, though.

--
Best regards
Han
email address is invalid

On 3/29/2012 8:43 AM, Han wrote:
"Stormin wrote in
:

I'm looking forward to a contractor company, some where, using only GM
Smart cars. Of course, it's for the children. However, it takes 10 men
and 10 smart cars to carry what one man can carry in a panel van. And,
it takes two for a ladder, one Smart car on each end of the ladder.

The Smart car is not GM. It's made by Daimler nowadays. My nephew was
driving me as the passenger in one of them over roads in the suburbs of
Paris. Despite the ardent wishes of my better half for such a vehicle,
there is no chance whatsoever of this household ever acquiring one. The
reason my underwear stayed dry on that ride was lack of fluids taken in
before. Also, for a car of that size and weight, the mileage is awful.
The ride was OK, but sitting right on top of the road with nothing in front
and a maniac* driving, was no fun.

*Sorry, Frank, no offense, I wasn't too awake, I think. The surprised look
on your Mother's face made it all worth it, though.


Are you drunk? Don't know what you are talking about. Also Mom passed
over 30 years ago.

As for car, sounds like my first experience in a VW bug.

“It's a fantastic business model — the more of our products you
own, the more likely you are to buy more,”


This is why americans can't afford to buy gasoline.

Because you also have to factor in the cost-of-ownership of these
devices (wireless data or cell-phone service plans).

Red Green wrote:

If you're having trouble paying the cost of gasoline in 2012,
there is a workable solution.

How about not buying an iSlave device everytime a new model comes
out?

I'm there. Don't have one.

http://www.cnbc.com/id/46857053

Apples Are Growing in American Homes
Published: Wednesday, 28 Mar 2012 | 7:27 AM ET

Half of all U.S. households own at least one Apple product, according to
CNBC’s All-America Economic survey.

That’s more than 55 million homes with at least one iPhone, iPad, iPod
or Mac computer. And one-in-10 homes that aren’t currently in that group
plan to join it in the next year.

But Apple doesn’t have to worry about brand saturation any time soon.
Americans don’t stop with just one device. Homes that own least one
Apple, own an average of three. Overall, the average household has 1.6
Apple devices, with almost one-quarter planning to buy at least one more
in the next year.

“It's a fantastic business model — the more of our products you own, the
more likely you are to buy more,” says Jay Campbell, a vice president of
Hart Research Associates, which conducts the CNBC survey along with Bill
McInturff. “Planned obsolescence has always been a part of the
technology industries sales model, but Apple has taken it to a whole new
level.”

Our survey shows Apple buyers tend to be male, college-educated, and
younger. They’re just as likely to own a home as not. Not surprisingly,
the more money you earn, the more Apple products you’re likely to own.

Just 28 percent of those making less than $30,000 a year own at least
one, compared with 77 percent of those making more than $75,000. Those
on the higher end of the income scale own an average of about three
Apple devices, compared with 0.6 for lower-income homes.

While growing up in the tech age makes a difference, the age gap isn’t
as wide as you might think. In fact just as many Americans between ages
18 and 34 count themselves among Apple users, as those ages 35-to-49 (63
percent). The number drops to 50 percent when you get into the 50-to-64
age group, and down to just 26 percent among those 65 and older.

It seems parents either want their kids to keep up with technology, or
they’re trying to keep them busy. Sixty-one percent of households with
children own Apple devices, compared with 48 percent of homes without
kids.

The gadgets have found their way into 57 percent of homes in the West,
home of Silicon Valley, compared with 47 percent-51 percent in the rest
of the country. Two Apple products are in the average home in the
American West, compared with just 1.2 in the South, where people own the
fewest devices.

Our survey also revealed the desirability of owning an Apple product
appears to be something Republicans and Democrats can actually agree on.
About 56 percent of the members of each party have at least one,
although a gap could soon open. Twenty-six percent of Democrats plan to
buy an Apple product in the next 12 months, versus 19 percent of
Republicans.

The poll of 836 Americans was conducted by landline and cellphone from
March 19 to 22 and has a margin of error of plus or minus 3.4 percent.

wrote:
If you're having trouble paying the cost of gasoline in 2012, there
is a workable solution.

As you're aware, the government and others keep telling you that you
need to tune up your car, make sure your tires are inflated properly,
and change your oil. These are all excellent tips, but some cars just
dont get the best mileage. Of course the government also suggests
getting a energy efficient car. Well, I'd be happy to do that, but
first they will have to send me a check to cover the cost of buying
one. Until that happens (which will be the same day that pigs fly),
I'll have to drive my older car that is not the most efficient.

This has lead me to devise a program to be able to afford the gas. I
found one that works.


Here's an even easier (to describe) method:

In 1946, gasoline was twenty-cents a gallon; two dimes.

The silver in two 1945 dimes is worth more than enough to purchase a gallon
of gas today. Heck, those two dimes would have purchased TWO gallons of gas
the day the current administration took office.

----
* 1945 dime=90% silver (2.25 grams). Current price is ~$32/oz. 4.5g = 0.16
oz., so 0.16oz x $32/oz = $5.12.

Frank wrote in news:jl1n0d$8ap$1@dont-
email.me:

Are you drunk? Don't know what you are talking about. Also Mom passed
over 30 years ago.

As for car, sounds like my first experience in a VW bug.

Sorry to you Frank Logullo grin. I thought I was clearly referring to my
nephew Frank. I don't think you've met him.

A VW bug (the original) is less scary than the smart car.

--
Best regards
Han
email address is invalid

Stormin Mormon wrote:

SNIP
And, it takes two for a ladder, one Smart car on each end of the
ladder.

Hmmm... better stop at the yellow light.

Maybe only the back car gets a ticket? both get tickets if speeding?

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

"Pin" wrote in message ...
Stormin Mormon wrote:

SNIP
And, it takes two for a ladder, one Smart car on each end of the
ladder.

Hmmm... better stop at the yellow light.

On 3/29/2012 2:22 PM, Han wrote:
wrote in news:jl1n0d$8ap$1@dont-
email.me:

Are you drunk? Don't know what you are talking about. Also Mom passed
over 30 years ago.

As for car, sounds like my first experience in a VW bug.

Sorry to you Frank Logullogrin. I thought I was clearly referring to my
nephew Frank. I don't think you've met him.

A VW bug (the original) is less scary than the smart car.

I guess I could have figured this out from careful reading.
Wondered why my name came up.

I have no intention of owning a car where the road appears directly in
front of me without the benefit of a lot of metal.

wrote:
If you're having trouble paying the cost of gasoline in 2012, there
is a workable solution.

As you're aware, the government and others keep telling you that you
need to tune up your car, make sure your tires are inflated properly,
and change your oil. These are all excellent tips, but some cars just
dont get the best mileage. Of course the government also suggests
getting a energy efficient car. Well, I'd be happy to do that, but
first they will have to send me a check to cover the cost of buying
one. Until that happens (which will be the same day that pigs fly),
I'll have to drive my older car that is not the most efficient.

This has lead me to devise a program to be able to afford the gas. I
found one that works.

In 1945, a gallon of gas cost twenty cents, two dimes.

Those same two 1945 dimes would buy a gallon of gas today - with some change
left over.

"HeyBub" wrote in
m:

wrote:
If you're having trouble paying the cost of gasoline in 2012, there
is a workable solution.

As you're aware, the government and others keep telling you that you
need to tune up your car, make sure your tires are inflated properly,
and change your oil. These are all excellent tips, but some cars
just dont get the best mileage. Of course the government also
suggests getting a energy efficient car. Well, I'd be happy to do
that, but first they will have to send me a check to cover the cost
of buying one. Until that happens (which will be the same day that
pigs fly), I'll have to drive my older car that is not the most
efficient.

This has lead me to devise a program to be able to afford the gas. I
found one that works.

In 1945, a gallon of gas cost twenty cents, two dimes.

Those same two 1945 dimes would buy a gallon of gas today - with some
change left over.

Comparing the cost of metals and the cost of gasoline is just not right.

Gold was ~$32/oz then and now is $1600/oz. Unfortunately, my old gold
tooth crown that popped off didn't pay for the tooth repair, nor for much
gas.

The only comparison that really counts is how much money you'd earn in
equivalent jobs/positions then and now. AFAIK, the price of gasoline is
comparatively on the low side.

--
Best regards
Han
email address is invalid

Stormin Mormon wrote:
After years of observing how he "runs the country", I've concluded.
The foreign born America hating marxist doesn't have the nation's
best interest at heart.


I heard Lawrence J. Peter (discoverer of the "Peter Principle") observe:
"I've been following governments, man and boy, for over forty years. I have
yet to conclude whether we are being led by well-meaning fools or by really
smart people who are just putting us on."

Maybe that's why O keeps community organizing? it was the last position
where he had competence?

I thought it was J. Lawrence Peter? Maybe my CRS is acting up. Or maybe my
RCS?

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

"HeyBub" wrote in message
m...
Stormin Mormon wrote:
After years of observing how he "runs the country", I've concluded.
The foreign born America hating marxist doesn't have the nation's
best interest at heart.


I heard Lawrence J. Peter (discoverer of the "Peter Principle") observe:
"I've been following governments, man and boy, for over forty years. I have
yet to conclude whether we are being led by well-meaning fools or by really
smart people who are just putting us on."

Robert Green wrote:

There's at least a significant reduction in the supply of truth, for
one. No one seems to realize that we consume far more oil than we
have. We burn 20 percent of the world's oil but own only 2 percent
of the oil reserves. That's the equation that drives the whole train.
We could ramp up production, pump every drop we have and it's still
not enough. By a longshot. Yet people believe that we've got all we
need for centuries just out of reach. That's why I'd support a
citizenship test for voting.

That's not exactly the case. Proven oil reserves total about 21 billion
barrels. The Dept of the Interior estimates undiscovered, but available,
reserves at 134 billion barrels. The Bureau of Land Management estimates
there are 2 TRILLION bbls of potentially recoverable oil.

True, we use 20% of the world's oil, but we account for 25% of the world's
GDP.


We depend on the world market because we have far less oil than we
consume.

No. We import because we do not PRODUCE enough oil, not that we don't have
it.

We'll always be customers, not suppliers in the global
scheme of things. The rush to get at ANWR is political. The
Republicans want to drill there because someone told them they can't.
They've conned a lot of Americans into thinking that there's enough
oil there to change the whole equation and end our dependence on
foreign oil. That's just not true. Unless we become incredibly more
efficient, it will *never* be true.

Agree. Oil is fungible, that is, one barrel of oil is pretty much like any
other barrel of oil.


It should be a no-brainer to realize that if we depend THAT MUCH on
foreign oil (and that can only change through conservation, not
"drill, baby, drill") we had better make sure we can survive for a
while without it. ANWR is our "nuclear rainy day" fund yet some
people want to burn through it like crack addicts looking for their
next fix. All to save from 5 or 10 cents on a gallon of gas.

Not so. More oil produced domestically means a lower world-wide price for
oil. The more oil we burn now, the sooner we'll find a proper substitute.
That is, technology is dependent on oil; to cut back - to conserve -
simultaneously means a cut-back on science and technology.


I'm beginning to think that slogan "if you tax the rich it will hurt
everyone" is basically the biggest PR con job in world history. This
country was in far, far better shape economically when the taxes on
the rich were incredibly much higher than current levels.
Apparently, if you leave them too much money, they RUIN it for
everyone else by vastly increasing speculative activities that cause
prices to skyrocket in housing, oil and food. (-"

Arrant nonsense. What do you think the rich DO with their wealth? Stuff it
in a mattress? No, they invest it and, in so doing, create jobs. Or they buy
things. For example:

You may recall the 10% tax surcharge the Clinton administration levied on
yachts costing more than $500,000. The result? The rich simply started
buying their boats in the Bahamas. Dozens of yacht builders went out of
business causing hundreds of workers their jobs.

In article ,
"HeyBub" wrote:



You may recall the 10% tax surcharge the Clinton administration levied on
yachts costing more than $500,000. The result? The rich simply started
buying their boats in the Bahamas. Dozens of yacht builders went out of
business causing hundreds of workers their jobs.

And most of the studies indicated that it cost more money in
unemployment payouts than it took in.

--
People thought cybersex was a safe alternative,
until patients started presenting with sexually
acquired carpal tunnel syndrome.-Howard Berkowitz

"Bryan Scholtes" wrote in message
...
How about driving less? If oil is the problem, why are we looking for
more, or ****ing people off by not looking? Oill will only get more
expensive no matter how much we find, because eventually it will be
very hard to get at. You may differ on when that will happen, but it
is inevitable.

That day's already here. The price has risen enough to make the
energy-intensive tar sand extraction process economically feasible.
Conservation is the only way we're going to be able to stretch out our
existing supply of oil. We're still wasting incredible amounts of money in
lots of our endeavors. The power required to keep all the cable TV boxes
around the nation going is astounding.

http://www.dailytech.com/Study+US+Ca...ticle22007.htm

Box makers say that the cable companies don't pay the electric bills for the
boxes, and so demand instant availability over a "wake from sleep" device
that could save millions of watts of electricity.

According to the study, there are 160 million set-top boxes in the U.S.,
and this number is increasing. These boxes run 24 hours per day, even when
they're not being used. The study found that add-on DVR's use an additional
40 percent more power than the set-top box. The Natural Resources Defense
Council found that these boxes consume $3 billion in electricity per year in
the U.S., and 66 percent of this power is drained when no one is even using
it. Also, one high definition cable box and one high definition DVR use
about 446 kilowatt-hours per year, which is 10 percent more than a
21-cubic-foot refrigerator that is energy efficient.

More than a big refrigerator.

--
Bobby G.

On Apr 5, 4:39*am, "Robert Green" wrote:
"Bryan Scholtes" wrote in message

...

How about driving less? If oil is the problem, why are we looking for
more, or ****ing people off by not looking? Oill will only get more
expensive no matter how much we find, because eventually it will be
very hard to get at. You may differ on when that will happen, but it
is inevitable.

That day's already here. *The price has risen enough to make the
energy-intensive tar sand extraction process economically feasible.
Conservation is the only way we're going to be able to stretch out our
existing supply of oil. *We're still wasting incredible amounts of money in
lots of our endeavors. *The power required to keep all the cable TV boxes
around the nation going is astounding.

http://www.dailytech.com/Study+US+Ca...at+Energy+Effi...

Box makers say that the cable companies don't pay the electric bills for the
boxes, and so demand instant availability over a "wake from sleep" device
that could save millions of watts of electricity.

According to the study, there are 160 million set-top boxes in the U.S.,
and this number is increasing. These boxes run 24 hours per day, even when
they're not being used. The study found that add-on DVR's use an additional
40 percent more power than the set-top box. *The Natural Resources Defense
Council found that these boxes consume $3 billion in electricity per year in
the U.S., and 66 percent of this power is drained when no one is even using
it. Also, one high definition cable box and one high definition DVR use
about 446 kilowatt-hours per year, which is 10 percent more than a
21-cubic-foot refrigerator that is energy efficient.

More than a big refrigerator.

--
Bobby G.

time for federal regulation to cut power used

"HeyBub" wrote in message
...
Robert Green wrote:

There's at least a significant reduction in the supply of truth, for
one. No one seems to realize that we consume far more oil than we
have. We burn 20 percent of the world's oil but own only 2 percent
of the oil reserves. That's the equation that drives the whole train.
We could ramp up production, pump every drop we have and it's still
not enough. By a longshot. Yet people believe that we've got all we
need for centuries just out of reach. That's why I'd support a
citizenship test for voting.

That's not exactly the case. Proven oil reserves total about 21 billion
barrels. The Dept of the Interior estimates undiscovered, but available,
reserves at 134 billion barrels. The Bureau of Land Management estimates
there are 2 TRILLION bbls of potentially recoverable oil.

To figure out what 20% of the world's oil means requires knowing how much
all there is in the entire world.

http://www.usnews.com/opinion/blogs/...h-oil-is-there

Apparently there are lies, damn lies and "estimated reserves."

The above blog points out there's really not a good way to know what's left
since the numbers bounce up and down dramatically. "Potentially recoverable
oil" includes a lot of oil whose cost to extract it is so high that it only
counts when oil prices spike above certain points. In some cases
outrageously high points.

True, we use 20% of the world's oil, but we account for 25% of the world's
GDP.

I don't dispute that. It still doesn't change the equation. We may USE 20%
of the world's oil but we don't HAVE 20% of the economically "drillable"
world's oil using even the farthest ranges for world supply. The only way
we could achieve self-sufficiency is to only use as much oil as we produce.
I don't think this is necessarily a bad thing, but the chances of our
becoming independent of foreign countries for oil with that equation in
place is very slim. There's a world of difference between "estimated
reserves" and "proven reserves" partly because oil companies tend to
overstate their potential wealth at every opportunity *except* tax time.

We depend on the world market because we have far less oil than we
consume.

No. We import because we do not PRODUCE enough oil, not that we don't have
it.

We don't produce a lot of it because it doesn't make economic sense to
produce it at costs far above what other countries do. I'm all for using up
everyone *else's* cheap and easy to get at oil first before we start
engaging in costly processes like the Canadians are doing with their
controversial tar sand extraction program.

We'll always be customers, not suppliers in the global
scheme of things. The rush to get at ANWR is political. The
Republicans want to drill there because someone told them they can't.
They've conned a lot of Americans into thinking that there's enough
oil there to change the whole equation and end our dependence on
foreign oil. That's just not true. Unless we become incredibly more
efficient, it will *never* be true.

Agree. Oil is fungible, that is, one barrel of oil is pretty much like any
other barrel of oil.

Not necessarily so. There's crude contaminated with sulfur that's worth a
lot less than "sweet" crude. Some oil comes up easily and some has to be
coaxed from deep beneath the ocean. So there's a tremendous variation in
the cost to produce each barrel of oil as well as in its quality and easy
refinability.

It should be a no-brainer to realize that if we depend THAT MUCH on
foreign oil (and that can only change through conservation, not
"drill, baby, drill") we had better make sure we can survive for a
while without it. ANWR is our "nuclear rainy day" fund yet some
people want to burn through it like crack addicts looking for their
next fix. All to save from 5 or 10 cents on a gallon of gas.

Not so. More oil produced domestically means a lower world-wide price for
oil. The more oil we burn now, the sooner we'll find a proper substitute.
That is, technology is dependent on oil; to cut back - to conserve -
simultaneously means a cut-back on science and technology.

That's a bogus argument on two fronts.

One is that technology may not always bail us out. All the replacement
technologies so far are pretty poor - you've said so yourself.

The second reason is that the best designer in the world, Mother Nature,
revels in conservation of energy. It's what human society is all about, in
a way. We look for ways to conserve our own human labor relentlessly. The
sickle becomes the combine, the sledge the pickup truck.

The business model is another example I believe Bryan referred to elsewhere.
The winners are the efficient businesses that can produce goods and services
for less than their competitors. In nature it's who can utilize resources
most efficiently. Wolverines thrive where no other animals can because they
can eat teeth and bones in a pinch. That gives them an efficiency edge.
Conservation has become a politicized and almost dirty word. I suggest we
should strive for efficiency instead. It would achieve much the same result
and not bunch up so much underwear.

I'm beginning to think that slogan "if you tax the rich it will hurt
everyone" is basically the biggest PR con job in world history. This
country was in far, far better shape economically when the taxes on
the rich were incredibly much higher than current levels.
Apparently, if you leave them too much money, they RUIN it for
everyone else by vastly increasing speculative activities that cause
prices to skyrocket in housing, oil and food. (-"

Arrant nonsense. What do you think the rich DO with their wealth? Stuff it
in a mattress? No, they invest it and, in so doing, create jobs. Or they
buy
things. For example:

Well, with all their tax breaks, where did all the tax-break created jobs
go? Should be millions. The "arrant nonsense" here is the belief that all
the money the very rich no longer paid in taxes thanks to Bush was all
smartly invested and not gambled away using extreme leverage that endangers
the little people and their mostly meager pensions and IRAs.

You may recall the 10% tax surcharge the Clinton administration levied on
yachts costing more than $500,000. The result? The rich simply started
buying their boats in the Bahamas. Dozens of yacht builders went out of
business causing hundreds of workers their jobs.

Yawn. This tired old dog. A badly-written rule was implemented with
loopholes for the very rich. What a surprise!!! How could such a thing
EVER happen in America? (-: Makes you wonder if it wasn't a deliberate
attempt to show how taxing the rich is futile.

In this case, however, you're deliberately omitting one of the major causes
of the closings:

http://www.nytimes.com/1991/07/21/ny...oat-sales.html

The Derecktor yard, which built the 1987 America's Cup winner, the Stars &
Stripes, is well known for its custom-designed yachts in the $1.5 million to
$8 million range. Mary Ann Clerkin, director of marketing, said general
consumer apprehension about the Persian Gulf war had affected sales there
more than the luxury tax. "Customers thought twice about ordering yachts
while the war was raging, and they put their plans on hold," she said.
"Since our boats take 12 to 20 months to build, business slowed down to the
point where we had to let some of our employees go." "With the end of the
war," she said, "orders started coming in and we not only rehired all our
old employees, but we added additional workers."

So even if it was the tax, though I doubt you could prove that, they could
have written a rule or law that made it very, very uncomfortable for anyone
who wanted to skirt the tax. Luxury boat owners take advantage of the many
services the US and the states provide boaters, like the Coast Guard. Those
services and boat registration and fees could have been raised quite high
for anyone who deliberately evaded the excise tax. Any DMV in the country
knows how to do this. Try gaming them out of their transfer taxes sometime.
It's roughly like saying "We tried once and failed! The concept is a
failure, too." We wouldn't have light bulbs if Edison operated in that
mode.

Rich speculators, many who were flush with extra cash from the Bush tax
cuts, blew up the housing market for everyone. They were buying homes
they'd never live in like they're now buying oil they'll never burn. We
were much more prosperous as a nation when the taxes for the very rich were
much, much higher and oil speculation was infinitesimal compared to today's
rates. Why is that? New research indicates that cutting taxes for the rich
DOESN'T spur all the growth some claim. In fact, it has surprisingly little
effect:

http://economistsview.typepad.com/ec.../productivity/

History shows that marginal federal income tax rates have varied widely.
Since World War II, the top rate has ranged from less than 30 percent (at
the end of the Reagan presidency) to more than 90 percent (throughout the
Eisenhower years). The 1964 Kennedy-Johnson tax cut significantly reduced
the typical marginal rate paid by American families, but rates rose greatly
over the next 15 years as inflation pushed people into higher tax brackets.
Rates fell sharply under Reagan, rose under Clinton and fell again under
George W. Bush . . . Growth was indeed slower in the 1970s than in the '60s,
and tax rates were higher in the '70s. But growth was stronger in the 1990s
than in the 2000s, despite noticeably higher rates in the '90s . . . a lack
of correlation doesn't prove that marginal-rate changes have little impact.
That's why economists have devoted thousands of pages in journals to testing
the effects more scientifically . . . Often, a law changes the marginal rate
for one group and not others. For example, the 2001 Bush tax cut lowered
marginal rates sharply for married couples with taxable incomes of around
$50,000, but did little to rates for couples earning slightly less. Using
household survey data, economists can compare the behavior of taxpayers
whose rates did and didn't change. . . We found that an increase in marginal
rates on an income group leads to a decrease in its reported taxable income
relative to other groups . . . But the estimated impact is very small -
almost at the bottom of the postwar studies' range. . . . Reining in the
long-run deficit will have to involve slowing the growth rate of spending .
.. .But unless we choose to gut Medicare and Medicaid, additional tax revenue
will be needed.
Try telling Americans that the programs they've paid into for decades won't
be paying them back. That can't happen unless you take the right to vote
away from people getting SS, Medicare, VA benefits, etc. They'll vote anyone
who tries gutting Medicare or SS out of office. Enjoy the current
conservative swing of the pendulum - it's going to swing back eventually.
It always does.

--
Bobby G.