Can a theif scan your credit card from several feet away, and get your data?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lLAFh...&feature=share

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

In article ,
"Stormin Mormon" wrote:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lLAFh...&feature=share

That is a very good report.

This is true, not new news, and scary.

Those RFID tags are everywhere these days. Credit cards, debit cards,
store anti theft & inventory control tags, passports, automotive 'key
less' entry keys/cards & 'immobilizers', implanted animal ID 'chips',
library books and on and on and on....

Here's a good read:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RFID

Be sure not to miss the 'Shielding Controversy' section of the above
article.

I wholeheartedly suggest demanding RFID free cards from your card
company/s.

Erik

On Mon, 27 Feb 2012 17:36:11 -0500, "Stormin Mormon"
wrote:

Can a theif scan your credit card from several feet away, and get your data?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lLAFh...&feature=share

Not if you keep it under your tinfoil hat. ;-)

"Stormin Mormon" wrote in message
...
Can a theif scan your credit card from several feet away, and get your
data?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lLAFh...&feature=share

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
.

Chase sent me new cards without RFID's at no charge when I requested them.

Erik wrote:

I wholeheartedly suggest demanding RFID free cards from your card
company/s.


Most merchants outside the U.S., e.g. Europe, will not take a card without
RFID.

"HeyBub" wrote in
:

Erik wrote:

I wholeheartedly suggest demanding RFID free cards from your card
company/s.


Most merchants outside the U.S., e.g. Europe, will not take a card
without RFID.

I'm not 100% sure, but I believe there is a distinction between an RFID
chip and the chip used in "European"-style cards.

Google "picture of chip and pin card" to see pictures of those cards:
The second row shows the chip contacts of a couple of configurations. This
is different from the contact-less terminal that indeed (likely) uses RFID
of some kind.

--
Best regards
Han
email address is invalid

In article ,
Han wrote:

"HeyBub" wrote in
:

Erik wrote:

I wholeheartedly suggest demanding RFID free cards from your card
company/s.


Most merchants outside the U.S., e.g. Europe, will not take a card
without RFID.

I'm not 100% sure, but I believe there is a distinction between an RFID
chip and the chip used in "European"-style cards.

Google "picture of chip and pin card" to see pictures of those cards:
The second row shows the chip contacts of a couple of configurations. This
is different from the contact-less terminal that indeed (likely) uses RFID
of some kind.

When viewing an RFID 'device', most of what you see are the 'antennas'.
There are actually two of them.

The first receives power from the reader by induction, and really isn't
so much an antenna, but the 'secondary winding' of a crude transformer.
This is why the tags require no 'on board' power source. As the power
requirements of the tag are exceedingly tiny, this works great. The tag
'wakes up' and begins transmitting when power is received from this
winding... it's usually made of foil, or a printed circuit board trace.

The second is the actual data transmission antenna, and looks similar to
the secondary coil. The two are often inter wound.

Tags vary a lot in their physical appearance due to space concerns and
the individual application... but they all work much the same.

Read the Wikipedia RFID entry, it gives a sound overview of the
technology.

Erik

Erik wrote in
:

In article ,
Han wrote:

"HeyBub" wrote in
:

Erik wrote:

I wholeheartedly suggest demanding RFID free cards from your card
company/s.


Most merchants outside the U.S., e.g. Europe, will not take a card
without RFID.

I'm not 100% sure, but I believe there is a distinction between an
RFID chip and the chip used in "European"-style cards.

Google "picture of chip and pin card" to see pictures of those cards:
The second row shows the chip contacts of a couple of configurations.
This is different from the contact-less terminal that indeed
(likely) uses RFID of some kind.

When viewing an RFID 'device', most of what you see are the
'antennas'. There are actually two of them.

The first receives power from the reader by induction, and really
isn't so much an antenna, but the 'secondary winding' of a crude
transformer. This is why the tags require no 'on board' power source.
As the power requirements of the tag are exceedingly tiny, this works
great. The tag 'wakes up' and begins transmitting when power is
received from this winding... it's usually made of foil, or a printed
circuit board trace.

The second is the actual data transmission antenna, and looks similar
to the secondary coil. The two are often inter wound.

Tags vary a lot in their physical appearance due to space concerns and
the individual application... but they all work much the same.

Read the Wikipedia RFID entry, it gives a sound overview of the
technology.

Erik


if you had a lot of RFID cards and tags in your wallet,would a reader be
able to separate them when they were all interrogated? or would it come up
with hash?

BTW,that E-Pass transponder you may have on your windshield to pay highway
tolls is also interrogated and counted at certain major intersections(no
funds transfers) in your city,as they are now being used to measure road
traffic. you can look up at the poles at an intersection and see the
rectangular flat antennas.

--
Jim Yanik
jyanik
at
localnet
dot com

Jim Yanik wrote:

Erik wrote in
:

In article ,
Han wrote:

"HeyBub" wrote in
:

Erik wrote:

I wholeheartedly suggest demanding RFID free cards from your card
company/s.


Most merchants outside the U.S., e.g. Europe, will not take a card
without RFID.

I'm not 100% sure, but I believe there is a distinction between an
RFID chip and the chip used in "European"-style cards.

Google "picture of chip and pin card" to see pictures of those cards:
The second row shows the chip contacts of a couple of configurations.
This is different from the contact-less terminal that indeed
(likely) uses RFID of some kind.

When viewing an RFID 'device', most of what you see are the
'antennas'. There are actually two of them.

The first receives power from the reader by induction, and really
isn't so much an antenna, but the 'secondary winding' of a crude
transformer. This is why the tags require no 'on board' power source.
As the power requirements of the tag are exceedingly tiny, this works
great. The tag 'wakes up' and begins transmitting when power is
received from this winding... it's usually made of foil, or a printed
circuit board trace.

The second is the actual data transmission antenna, and looks similar
to the secondary coil. The two are often inter wound.

Tags vary a lot in their physical appearance due to space concerns and
the individual application... but they all work much the same.

Read the Wikipedia RFID entry, it gives a sound overview of the
technology.

Erik


if you had a lot of RFID cards and tags in your wallet,would a reader be
able to separate them when they were all interrogated? or would it come up
with hash?

BTW,that E-Pass transponder you may have on your windshield to pay highway
tolls is also interrogated and counted at certain major intersections(no
funds transfers) in your city,as they are now being used to measure road
traffic. you can look up at the poles at an intersection and see the
rectangular flat antennas.

I believe that they are confusing "smart card" which is a contact type
technology and "RFID" which is non contact. Smart cards have a small
patch on the card with a semi circular grid of gold plated electrical
contacts which should not be confused with an antenna. RFID antennas are
rarely visible externally and when they are visible through some
transparent covering they are a coil shape not an array of individual
contacts.

RFID does have a collision detection and avoidance scheme so yes, a
reader could read multiple RFID cards/tags in close proximity to each
other.

On 2/28/2012 9:32 AM, Pete C. wrote:

RFID does have a collision detection and avoidance scheme so yes, a
reader could read multiple RFID cards/tags in close proximity to each
other.

Nearly all the libraries in my area have switched to RFID for checkout.
It greatly speeds things up to be able to check out a stack of items all
at once rather than scan bar codes individually.

On Tue, 28 Feb 2012 11:32:58 -0600, "Pete C." wrote:


Jim Yanik wrote:

Erik wrote in
:

In article ,
Han wrote:

"HeyBub" wrote in
:

Erik wrote:

I wholeheartedly suggest demanding RFID free cards from your card
company/s.


Most merchants outside the U.S., e.g. Europe, will not take a card
without RFID.

I'm not 100% sure, but I believe there is a distinction between an
RFID chip and the chip used in "European"-style cards.

Google "picture of chip and pin card" to see pictures of those cards:
The second row shows the chip contacts of a couple of configurations.
This is different from the contact-less terminal that indeed
(likely) uses RFID of some kind.

When viewing an RFID 'device', most of what you see are the
'antennas'. There are actually two of them.

The first receives power from the reader by induction, and really
isn't so much an antenna, but the 'secondary winding' of a crude
transformer. This is why the tags require no 'on board' power source.
As the power requirements of the tag are exceedingly tiny, this works
great. The tag 'wakes up' and begins transmitting when power is
received from this winding... it's usually made of foil, or a printed
circuit board trace.

The second is the actual data transmission antenna, and looks similar
to the secondary coil. The two are often inter wound.

Tags vary a lot in their physical appearance due to space concerns and
the individual application... but they all work much the same.

Read the Wikipedia RFID entry, it gives a sound overview of the
technology.

Erik


if you had a lot of RFID cards and tags in your wallet,would a reader be
able to separate them when they were all interrogated? or would it come up
with hash?

BTW,that E-Pass transponder you may have on your windshield to pay highway
tolls is also interrogated and counted at certain major intersections(no
funds transfers) in your city,as they are now being used to measure road
traffic. you can look up at the poles at an intersection and see the
rectangular flat antennas.

I believe that they are confusing "smart card" which is a contact type
technology and "RFID" which is non contact. Smart cards have a small
patch on the card with a semi circular grid of gold plated electrical
contacts which should not be confused with an antenna. RFID antennas are
rarely visible externally and when they are visible through some
transparent covering they are a coil shape not an array of individual
contacts.

My Amex card is transparent, making the antennas readily visible. Yes,
they're loops (seven concentric loops, about 1" x 2", with what looks like a
shorting bar across the far end - no contacts).

RFID does have a collision detection and avoidance scheme so yes, a
reader could read multiple RFID cards/tags in close proximity to each
other.

In article ,
Jim Yanik wrote:

if you had a lot of RFID cards and tags in your wallet,would a reader be
able to separate them when they were all interrogated? or would it come up
with hash?

Pallets of materials with hundreds, or even thousands of tags can be
driven through special readers, and all the tags read almost
instantaneously.

I remember reading where the goal of some large retailers is the ability
to push a cart full of goods through a reader, and have an instant
itemized total. Now that the price of RFID tags gone way down, they are
getting close to that goal. (One major retailer pushing hard for all
this has the initials "WM")

The tags will also play a big role in inventory control, and theft
prevention, as they are all read again passing out the door... where the
store computer cross checks to see if the items were in fact purchased.

Tagged items are able to be serialized and later traced all the way back
to the store (of mfg for all that matter). If the item was purchased
with a credit card, the buyer is also easily ID'd. We're not talking big
ticket items only here either, this means anything tagged, right down to
packs of gum. This traceability works as long as the tag remains
readable, and the appropriate records are kept... could be decades or
longer.

This is just a few of the highlights of RFID, go Googleing for a while
if you really want gory details.

Can you say "Big Brother"?

There, I knew you could!

Erik

I'm waiting for McDonalds to scan your EZ Pass, and use that, combined with
sales data, to offer you premiumes and coupons based on your buying habits.

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

"Jim Yanik" wrote in message
4...

BTW,that E-Pass transponder you may have on your windshield to pay highway
tolls is also interrogated and counted at certain major intersections(no
funds transfers) in your city,as they are now being used to measure road
traffic. you can look up at the poles at an intersection and see the
rectangular flat antennas.

--
Jim Yanik
jyanik
at
localnet
dot com

Somehow, they do that already. Probably much like radios or TV with
different channels.

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

"Jim Yanik" wrote in message
4...

if you had a lot of RFID cards and tags in your wallet,would a reader be
able to separate them when they were all interrogated? or would it come up
with hash?

--
Jim Yanik
jyanik
at
localnet
dot com

Wal Ahl Bee.....

I've heard various stories. IIRC, RFID in Gillette disposable shavers, some
how remember about that.

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

"Erik" wrote in message
...

Pallets of materials with hundreds, or even thousands of tags can be
driven through special readers, and all the tags read almost
instantaneously.

I remember reading where the goal of some large retailers is the ability
to push a cart full of goods through a reader, and have an instant
itemized total. Now that the price of RFID tags gone way down, they are
getting close to that goal. (One major retailer pushing hard for all
this has the initials "WM")

The tags will also play a big role in inventory control, and theft
prevention, as they are all read again passing out the door... where the
store computer cross checks to see if the items were in fact purchased.

Tagged items are able to be serialized and later traced all the way back
to the store (of mfg for all that matter). If the item was purchased
with a credit card, the buyer is also easily ID'd. We're not talking big
ticket items only here either, this means anything tagged, right down to
packs of gum. This traceability works as long as the tag remains
readable, and the appropriate records are kept... could be decades or
longer.

This is just a few of the highlights of RFID, go Googleing for a while
if you really want gory details.

Can you say "Big Brother"?

There, I knew you could!

Erik

On Tue, 28 Feb 2012 06:51:17 -0600, "HeyBub"
wrote:

Erik wrote:

I wholeheartedly suggest demanding RFID free cards from your card
company/s.


Most merchants outside the U.S., e.g. Europe, will not take a card without
RFID.



I had no problems in Europe with my regular cards. Just this week
though, I received a "World Card" from Master card. I have no idea if
it has an RFID or not. MC only says it is accepted around the world.
Nor did they say why they replaced my old card.

Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On Tue, 28 Feb 2012 06:51:17 -0600, "HeyBub"
wrote:

Erik wrote:

I wholeheartedly suggest demanding RFID free cards from your card
company/s.


Most merchants outside the U.S., e.g. Europe, will not take a card without
RFID.



I had no problems in Europe with my regular cards. Just this week
though, I received a "World Card" from Master card. I have no idea if
it has an RFID or not. MC only says it is accepted around the world.
Nor did they say why they replaced my old card.

The strip may burn, but a couple seconds in a microwave should fry it.

Greg