Here's what I want to do.

I've got steam/boiler heater, runs on gas, the only electricty
needed is to run the (solenoid?) thermostat, basically.

It's powered via a cable (covered in flexible metal tubing)
that connects into the wall 110-AC line.

What I want to do is get that changed from that direct connection
to the wall, to instead end in a grounded male plug.

That's it!

Probably requiring another separate female socket box to plug
it into.

WHY? So that when the power goes out and I get my small
generator cranked up, I can unplug the heating apparatus
(boiler, etc) from the wall and plug it into an extension
cord from the generator. So I don't freeze my ass.

---

Now, I figure that this has to be done "to code", thus has
to be done by a licensed electrician.

So these guys recommended by my (*very* smart plumber)
came over to look at the "job".

At first the older of the two gave me all this gobbledygook
about the code requiring him to add some mechanism to the
circuit-breaker panel to avoid having the generator back-feeding
into the house wiring when the city power came back on, and
my generator was still connected.

Complete BS, of course, because the two power sources,]
the house power and the generator, are TOTALLY isolated --
the boiler has only this single plug, and it's plugged
into one of three places:
. the house.
. the generator
. nowhere -- it's "unplugged".

-----

Now, if you were an electrician, how much would YOU
charge to do this?


Oh, gotta add this. There's TWO (gas) heat generators:
. the big boiler, which heats the floors ABOVE it.
. a small one, that supplies (via hot water) heat to
the basement (ie the same floor the boilers are
on), the reason being that 15 yearsago my wife's
aging parents came to live with us (couldn't manage
on their own, what with macular degeneration, etc), so
we converted the (finished) basement into a wee
kitchenless apartment for them.

And one third thing. There's a continually running fan
in the boiler exhaust pipe to force the "exhaust"
up the chimney, not allowing it to (on windy day)
stay in the boiler room and flow under the door
to the rest of the basement -- which it often did until
the fan was added.

That too is wired directly into the wall, and also must
be converted into a plug. What's that, 200 watts?


-----

This job seems so darned simple that it might not even
be worth the trip over to do the work, unless they charged
up the gazoo (per minute). (I say this because it's been
an entire week since those two guys came over, and no
estimate yet. Looks like they don't want to do it at all,
maybe.)

So that I can judge whether an offer makes sense or not,
what might YOU charge to do this? (Location: Westchester
County, N.Y.)


Hey, thanks so much!


David

On 2/2/2012 1:08 PM, David Combs wrote:
big snip

So that I can judge whether an offer makes sense or not,
what might YOU charge to do this? (Location: Westchester
County, N.Y.)


Hey, thanks so much!


David



it wasn't very much at all, until you got to the last sentence. at that
point, it became a much bigger bill.

"David Combs" wrote in message
Here's what I want to do.

I've got steam/boiler heater, runs on gas, the only electricty
needed is to run the (solenoid?) thermostat, basically.

It's powered via a cable (covered in flexible metal tubing)
that connects into the wall 110-AC line.

What I want to do is get that changed from that direct connection
to the wall, to instead end in a grounded male plug.

That's it!


The more simple something is, the cheaper the cost. Although it
typically costs around $100 these days for anyone to just knock on
your door (minimum charge).

And an electrician might not carry plugs. Perhaps you could buy a good
quality plug and have that on hand before he arrives. Then he would
not need to spend time going to the store to get one.

Get a plug like this...
http://www.northerntool.com/images/p.../312114_lg.jpg

Not being electrician, I can't comment on what they charge.

From what I know of the NEC, the heating plant has to be straight wired from
the device to the breaker, so the plug and socket routine is not legal. I
know. Your refrigerator, your TV, everything else in the house is wired with
a plug and socket. But, that's what I've heard about the NEC.

That said, it can't be all that gosh awful expensive. And, it really is a
brilliant idea. The challenge is to find someone who will actually DO said
rewiring.

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

"David Combs" wrote in message
...
Here's what I want to do.

I've got steam/boiler heater, runs on gas, the only electricty
needed is to run the (solenoid?) thermostat, basically.

It's powered via a cable (covered in flexible metal tubing)
that connects into the wall 110-AC line.

What I want to do is get that changed from that direct connection
to the wall, to instead end in a grounded male plug.

That's it!

Probably requiring another separate female socket box to plug
it into.

WHY? So that when the power goes out and I get my small
generator cranked up, I can unplug the heating apparatus
(boiler, etc) from the wall and plug it into an extension
cord from the generator. So I don't freeze my ass.

---

Now, I figure that this has to be done "to code", thus has
to be done by a licensed electrician.

So these guys recommended by my (*very* smart plumber)
came over to look at the "job".

At first the older of the two gave me all this gobbledygook
about the code requiring him to add some mechanism to the
circuit-breaker panel to avoid having the generator back-feeding
into the house wiring when the city power came back on, and
my generator was still connected.

Complete BS, of course, because the two power sources,]
the house power and the generator, are TOTALLY isolated --
the boiler has only this single plug, and it's plugged
into one of three places:
. the house.
. the generator
. nowhere -- it's "unplugged".

-----

Now, if you were an electrician, how much would YOU
charge to do this?


Oh, gotta add this. There's TWO (gas) heat generators:
. the big boiler, which heats the floors ABOVE it.
. a small one, that supplies (via hot water) heat to
the basement (ie the same floor the boilers are
on), the reason being that 15 yearsago my wife's
aging parents came to live with us (couldn't manage
on their own, what with macular degeneration, etc), so
we converted the (finished) basement into a wee
kitchenless apartment for them.

And one third thing. There's a continually running fan
in the boiler exhaust pipe to force the "exhaust"
up the chimney, not allowing it to (on windy day)
stay in the boiler room and flow under the door
to the rest of the basement -- which it often did until
the fan was added.

That too is wired directly into the wall, and also must
be converted into a plug. What's that, 200 watts?


-----

This job seems so darned simple that it might not even
be worth the trip over to do the work, unless they charged
up the gazoo (per minute). (I say this because it's been
an entire week since those two guys came over, and no
estimate yet. Looks like they don't want to do it at all,
maybe.)

So that I can judge whether an offer makes sense or not,
what might YOU charge to do this? (Location: Westchester
County, N.Y.)


Hey, thanks so much!


David

On 2 Feb 2012 15:08:43 -0500, (David Combs) wrote:

Here's what I want to do.

I've got steam/boiler heater, runs on gas, the only electricty
needed is to run the (solenoid?) thermostat, basically.

It's powered via a cable (covered in flexible metal tubing)
that connects into the wall 110-AC line.

What I want to do is get that changed from that direct connection
to the wall, to instead end in a grounded male plug.

That's it!

Probably requiring another separate female socket box to plug
it into.

WHY? So that when the power goes out and I get my small
generator cranked up, I can unplug the heating apparatus
(boiler, etc) from the wall and plug it into an extension
cord from the generator. So I don't freeze my ass.

---

Now, I figure that this has to be done "to code", thus has
to be done by a licensed electrician.

So these guys recommended by my (*very* smart plumber)
came over to look at the "job".

At first the older of the two gave me all this gobbledygook
about the code requiring him to add some mechanism to the
circuit-breaker panel to avoid having the generator back-feeding
into the house wiring when the city power came back on, and
my generator was still connected.

Complete BS, of course, because the two power sources,]
the house power and the generator, are TOTALLY isolated --
the boiler has only this single plug, and it's plugged
into one of three places:
. the house.
. the generator
. nowhere -- it's "unplugged".

-----

Now, if you were an electrician, how much would YOU
charge to do this?


Oh, gotta add this. There's TWO (gas) heat generators:
. the big boiler, which heats the floors ABOVE it.
. a small one, that supplies (via hot water) heat to
the basement (ie the same floor the boilers are
on), the reason being that 15 yearsago my wife's
aging parents came to live with us (couldn't manage
on their own, what with macular degeneration, etc), so
we converted the (finished) basement into a wee
kitchenless apartment for them.

And one third thing. There's a continually running fan
in the boiler exhaust pipe to force the "exhaust"
up the chimney, not allowing it to (on windy day)
stay in the boiler room and flow under the door
to the rest of the basement -- which it often did until
the fan was added.

That too is wired directly into the wall, and also must
be converted into a plug. What's that, 200 watts?


-----

This job seems so darned simple that it might not even
be worth the trip over to do the work, unless they charged
up the gazoo (per minute). (I say this because it's been
an entire week since those two guys came over, and no
estimate yet. Looks like they don't want to do it at all,
maybe.)

So that I can judge whether an offer makes sense or not,
what might YOU charge to do this? (Location: Westchester
County, N.Y.)


Hey, thanks so much!


David

All you need to do is turn off the breaker, disconnect the hard-wired
connection, and replace it with a Duplex receptacle of the correct
amperage, then remove the solid conductor wire from the boiler control
box and replace it with a flexible cord of the correct guage, with the
correct plug.

Dead simple job, and no electician "required" in most jurisdictions -
particularly if you are reasonably handy and know anything about
electricity and wiring (or can read and comprehend a book)

On Thu, 2 Feb 2012 13:01:02 -0800, "Bill"
wrote:

"David Combs" wrote in message
Here's what I want to do.

I've got steam/boiler heater, runs on gas, the only electricty
needed is to run the (solenoid?) thermostat, basically.

It's powered via a cable (covered in flexible metal tubing)
that connects into the wall 110-AC line.

What I want to do is get that changed from that direct connection
to the wall, to instead end in a grounded male plug.

That's it!


The more simple something is, the cheaper the cost. Although it
typically costs around $100 these days for anyone to just knock on
your door (minimum charge).

And an electrician might not carry plugs. Perhaps you could buy a good
quality plug and have that on hand before he arrives. Then he would
not need to spend time going to the store to get one.

Get a plug like this...
http://www.northerntool.com/images/p.../312114_lg.jpg
Illegal to have a plug on solid conductor cord - if not illegal, not
adviesable. You need a good "appliance cord" - I like teck cable for
that kind of setup. #14 or #12.

"Bill" wrote in news:9p0bsnFhbbU1
@mid.individual.net:

"David Combs" wrote in message
Here's what I want to do.

I've got steam/boiler heater, runs on gas, the only electricty
needed is to run the (solenoid?) thermostat, basically.

It's powered via a cable (covered in flexible metal tubing)
that connects into the wall 110-AC line.

What I want to do is get that changed from that direct connection
to the wall, to instead end in a grounded male plug.

That's it!


The more simple something is, the cheaper the cost. Although it
typically costs around $100 these days for anyone to just knock on
your door (minimum charge).

And an electrician might not carry plugs. Perhaps you could buy a good
quality plug and have that on hand before he arrives. Then he would
not need to spend time going to the store to get one.

Get a plug like this...
http://www.northerntool.com/images/p.../312114_lg.jpg


Do they do something special to uglyfy those plugs you use???
Ours look like

http://www.kleinspul.nl/products_pic...st_legrand.jpg

On 2/2/2012 3:08 PM, David Combs wrote:
Here's what I want to do.

I've got steam/boiler heater, runs on gas, the only electricty
needed is to run the (solenoid?) thermostat, basically.

It's powered via a cable (covered in flexible metal tubing)
that connects into the wall 110-AC line.

What I want to do is get that changed from that direct connection
to the wall, to instead end in a grounded male plug.

That's it!

Probably requiring another separate female socket box to plug
it into.

WHY? So that when the power goes out and I get my small
generator cranked up, I can unplug the heating apparatus
(boiler, etc) from the wall and plug it into an extension
cord from the generator. So I don't freeze my ass.

---

Now, I figure that this has to be done "to code", thus has
to be done by a licensed electrician.

So these guys recommended by my (*very* smart plumber)
came over to look at the "job".

At first the older of the two gave me all this gobbledygook
about the code requiring him to add some mechanism to the
circuit-breaker panel to avoid having the generator back-feeding
into the house wiring when the city power came back on, and
my generator was still connected.

Complete BS, of course, because the two power sources,]
the house power and the generator, are TOTALLY isolated --
the boiler has only this single plug, and it's plugged
into one of three places:
. the house.
. the generator
. nowhere -- it's "unplugged".

-----

Now, if you were an electrician, how much would YOU
charge to do this?


Oh, gotta add this. There's TWO (gas) heat generators:
. the big boiler, which heats the floors ABOVE it.
. a small one, that supplies (via hot water) heat to
the basement (ie the same floor the boilers are
on), the reason being that 15 yearsago my wife's
aging parents came to live with us (couldn't manage
on their own, what with macular degeneration, etc), so
we converted the (finished) basement into a wee
kitchenless apartment for them.

And one third thing. There's a continually running fan
in the boiler exhaust pipe to force the "exhaust"
up the chimney, not allowing it to (on windy day)
stay in the boiler room and flow under the door
to the rest of the basement -- which it often did until
the fan was added.

That too is wired directly into the wall, and also must
be converted into a plug. What's that, 200 watts?


-----

This job seems so darned simple that it might not even
be worth the trip over to do the work, unless they charged
up the gazoo (per minute). (I say this because it's been
an entire week since those two guys came over, and no
estimate yet. Looks like they don't want to do it at all,
maybe.)

So that I can judge whether an offer makes sense or not,
what might YOU charge to do this? (Location: Westchester
County, N.Y.)


Hey, thanks so much!


David


As gfretwell points out, you can't properly wire your boiler to a cord
and plug. To do what you want, properly, you'll need one of these:


http://www.wayfair.com/Reliance-Cont...d=FR49-RLC1017

The job will take less than an hour and the typical service charge for
that time, in your area will be around $150

On 2/2/2012 3:08 PM, David Combs wrote:
Here's what I want to do.

I've got steam/boiler heater, runs on gas, the only electricty
needed is to run the (solenoid?) thermostat, basically.

It's powered via a cable (covered in flexible metal tubing)
that connects into the wall 110-AC line.

What I want to do is get that changed from that direct connection
to the wall, to instead end in a grounded male plug.

That's it!

Probably requiring another separate female socket box to plug
it into.


Here you go, all UL Listed and legal

http://www.reliancecontrols.com/Prod...il.aspx?TF151W

I've got one on my gas furnace and it works great.
No more frozen pipes when the power goes out.

The Northern tool plug is 110 VAC with ground. Looks like the one Sjouke
posted is European 230 VAC?

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

"Sjouke Burry" s@b wrote in message
2.10...
"Bill" wrote in news:9p0bsnFhbbU1
@mid.individual.net:

Get a plug like this...
http://www.northerntool.com/images/p.../312114_lg.jpg


Do they do something special to uglyfy those plugs you use???
Ours look like

http://www.kleinspul.nl/products_pic...st_legrand.jpg

Should interface with this, just fine?

http://www.harborfreight.com/50-ft-x...ord-41444.html

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

"Harry Johnson" wrote in message
...

Here you go, all UL Listed and legal

http://www.reliancecontrols.com/Prod...il.aspx?TF151W

I've got one on my gas furnace and it works great.
No more frozen pipes when the power goes out.

On 2 Feb 2012 15:08:43 -0500, (David Combs) wrote:

Here's what I want to do.

I've got steam/boiler heater, runs on gas, the only electricty
needed is to run the (solenoid?) thermostat, basically.

It's powered via a cable (covered in flexible metal tubing)
that connects into the wall 110-AC line.

What I want to do is get that changed from that direct connection
to the wall, to instead end in a grounded male plug.

This solenoid is most likely operated by a transformer with a secondary
voltage of around 24 volts.

Working on low voltage wiring is easy to do and should not need to
follow a lot of codes. Therefore, the simple solution is to not touch
the AC supply voltage at all. Instead, buy an extra transformer to be
powered from the generator. Install a DPDT (Double pole double throw)
switch in a box, and connect this to secondary of both transformers.
When the switch is flipped in one direction, the furnace will run the
transformer from the power line. When flipped the other way, it will
run from the generator. Label the switch so you know which way to flip
the switch.

You can buy a switch like this at Radio Shack. You can also buy small
aluminum boxes there to install it after drilling some holes in the box
for the switch and the wires. A DPDT switch has 6 terminals on the
back. The 2 middle ones go to the 2 wires going to the furnace. The 2
terminals on the left go to the transformer from the generator, the two
on the right go to the 2 wires from the line powered transformer.

Find a buddy who plays around with electronics to help if you need help.
There are ham radio guys and electronics experimenters all over the
country. Maybe the Radio Shack clerk knows of someone, or call a few
local TV repair shops.

Be sure to buy a transformer MADE for your furnace. Call a furnace
repair shop.

Problem solved!

On 02/02/2012 06:16 PM, wrote:
On 2 Feb 2012 15:08:43 -0500, (David Combs) wrote:

Here's what I want to do.

I've got steam/boiler heater, runs on gas, the only electricty
needed is to run the (solenoid?) thermostat, basically.

It's powered via a cable (covered in flexible metal tubing)
that connects into the wall 110-AC line.

What I want to do is get that changed from that direct connection
to the wall, to instead end in a grounded male plug.

This solenoid is most likely operated by a transformer with a secondary
voltage of around 24 volts.

Working on low voltage wiring is easy to do and should not need to
follow a lot of codes. Therefore, the simple solution is to not touch
the AC supply voltage at all. Instead, buy an extra transformer to be
powered from the generator. Install a DPDT (Double pole double throw)
switch in a box, and connect this to secondary of both transformers.
When the switch is flipped in one direction, the furnace will run the
transformer from the power line. When flipped the other way, it will
run from the generator. Label the switch so you know which way to flip
the switch.

You can buy a switch like this at Radio Shack. You can also buy small
aluminum boxes there to install it after drilling some holes in the box
for the switch and the wires. A DPDT switch has 6 terminals on the
back. The 2 middle ones go to the 2 wires going to the furnace. The 2
terminals on the left go to the transformer from the generator, the two
on the right go to the 2 wires from the line powered transformer.

Find a buddy who plays around with electronics to help if you need help.
There are ham radio guys and electronics experimenters all over the
country. Maybe the Radio Shack clerk knows of someone, or call a few
local TV repair shops.

Be sure to buy a transformer MADE for your furnace. Call a furnace
repair shop.

Problem solved!


if you do that make sure the switch is a DPDT center-off switch, or at a
bare minimum break before make. xfmrs can backfeed and that wouldn't be
safe

nate

--
replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply.
http://members.cox.net/njnagel

On 2/2/2012 6:27 PM, Nate Nagel wrote:
On 02/02/2012 06:16 PM, wrote:
On 2 Feb 2012 15:08:43 -0500, (David Combs) wrote:

Here's what I want to do.

I've got steam/boiler heater, runs on gas, the only electricty
needed is to run the (solenoid?) thermostat, basically.

It's powered via a cable (covered in flexible metal tubing)
that connects into the wall 110-AC line.

What I want to do is get that changed from that direct connection
to the wall, to instead end in a grounded male plug.

This solenoid is most likely operated by a transformer with a secondary
voltage of around 24 volts.

Working on low voltage wiring is easy to do and should not need to
follow a lot of codes. Therefore, the simple solution is to not touch
the AC supply voltage at all. Instead, buy an extra transformer to be
powered from the generator. Install a DPDT (Double pole double throw)
switch in a box, and connect this to secondary of both transformers.
When the switch is flipped in one direction, the furnace will run the
transformer from the power line. When flipped the other way, it will
run from the generator. Label the switch so you know which way to flip
the switch.

You can buy a switch like this at Radio Shack. You can also buy small
aluminum boxes there to install it after drilling some holes in the box
for the switch and the wires. A DPDT switch has 6 terminals on the
back. The 2 middle ones go to the 2 wires going to the furnace. The 2
terminals on the left go to the transformer from the generator, the two
on the right go to the 2 wires from the line powered transformer.

Find a buddy who plays around with electronics to help if you need help.
There are ham radio guys and electronics experimenters all over the
country. Maybe the Radio Shack clerk knows of someone, or call a few
local TV repair shops.

Be sure to buy a transformer MADE for your furnace. Call a furnace
repair shop.

Problem solved!


if you do that make sure the switch is a DPDT center-off switch, or at a
bare minimum break before make. xfmrs can backfeed and that wouldn't be
safe

nate


It's a moot point. The OP has a draft inducer in the system which needs
120 volts

"Stormin Mormon" wrote in message .. .
Should interface with this, just fine?

http://www.harborfreight.com/50-ft-x...ord-41444.html

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
.


In my opinion, HF is a schlock merchant.
I would expect that extension cord to be a cheap piece of **** made from China's finest toxic waste.
I'd also expect the cord to fail within the first few hours of use.


For just a few dollars more you can get a top-quality cord made in USA that will last for decades.

Amazon has one for $44
US Wire 99050 12/3 50-Foot SJEOW TPE Cold Weather Extension Cord Blue with Lighted Plug

On Thu, 02 Feb 2012 17:48:20 -0500, Harry Johnson
wrote:

On 2/2/2012 3:08 PM, David Combs wrote:
Here's what I want to do.

I've got steam/boiler heater, runs on gas, the only electricty
needed is to run the (solenoid?) thermostat, basically.

It's powered via a cable (covered in flexible metal tubing)
that connects into the wall 110-AC line.

What I want to do is get that changed from that direct connection
to the wall, to instead end in a grounded male plug.

That's it!

Probably requiring another separate female socket box to plug
it into.


Here you go, all UL Listed and legal

http://www.reliancecontrols.com/Prod...il.aspx?TF151W

I've got one on my gas furnace and it works great.
No more frozen pipes when the power goes out.


That would be my choice. Easy to DIY, but also simple if you have to
pay an electrician. He will probably charge the minimum for a call.
Around here, that is about $100.

On Thu, 02 Feb 2012 17:46:14 -0500, RBM wrote:

On 2/2/2012 3:08 PM, David Combs wrote:
Here's what I want to do.

I've got steam/boiler heater, runs on gas, the only electricty
needed is to run the (solenoid?) thermostat, basically.

It's powered via a cable (covered in flexible metal tubing)
that connects into the wall 110-AC line.

What I want to do is get that changed from that direct connection
to the wall, to instead end in a grounded male plug.

That's it!

Probably requiring another separate female socket box to plug
it into.

WHY? So that when the power goes out and I get my small
generator cranked up, I can unplug the heating apparatus
(boiler, etc) from the wall and plug it into an extension
cord from the generator. So I don't freeze my ass.

---

Now, I figure that this has to be done "to code", thus has
to be done by a licensed electrician.

So these guys recommended by my (*very* smart plumber)
came over to look at the "job".

At first the older of the two gave me all this gobbledygook
about the code requiring him to add some mechanism to the
circuit-breaker panel to avoid having the generator back-feeding
into the house wiring when the city power came back on, and
my generator was still connected.

Complete BS, of course, because the two power sources,]
the house power and the generator, are TOTALLY isolated --
the boiler has only this single plug, and it's plugged
into one of three places:
. the house.
. the generator
. nowhere -- it's "unplugged".

-----

Now, if you were an electrician, how much would YOU
charge to do this?


Oh, gotta add this. There's TWO (gas) heat generators:
. the big boiler, which heats the floors ABOVE it.
. a small one, that supplies (via hot water) heat to
the basement (ie the same floor the boilers are
on), the reason being that 15 yearsago my wife's
aging parents came to live with us (couldn't manage
on their own, what with macular degeneration, etc), so
we converted the (finished) basement into a wee
kitchenless apartment for them.

And one third thing. There's a continually running fan
in the boiler exhaust pipe to force the "exhaust"
up the chimney, not allowing it to (on windy day)
stay in the boiler room and flow under the door
to the rest of the basement -- which it often did until
the fan was added.

That too is wired directly into the wall, and also must
be converted into a plug. What's that, 200 watts?


-----

This job seems so darned simple that it might not even
be worth the trip over to do the work, unless they charged
up the gazoo (per minute). (I say this because it's been
an entire week since those two guys came over, and no
estimate yet. Looks like they don't want to do it at all,
maybe.)

So that I can judge whether an offer makes sense or not,
what might YOU charge to do this? (Location: Westchester
County, N.Y.)


Hey, thanks so much!


David


As gfretwell points out, you can't properly wire your boiler to a cord
and plug. To do what you want, properly, you'll need one of these:


http://www.wayfair.com/Reliance-Cont...d=FR49-RLC1017

The job will take less than an hour and the typical service charge for
that time, in your area will be around $150


I've seen furnaces connected with a twist-lock plug - it meets the
requirement for a disconnect within reach of the furnace.(takes the
place of a switch) and is also a foolproof way of connecting to a
genset.

On Thu, 02 Feb 2012 17:16:11 -0600, wrote:

On 2 Feb 2012 15:08:43 -0500, (David Combs) wrote:

Here's what I want to do.

I've got steam/boiler heater, runs on gas, the only electricty
needed is to run the (solenoid?) thermostat, basically.

It's powered via a cable (covered in flexible metal tubing)
that connects into the wall 110-AC line.

What I want to do is get that changed from that direct connection
to the wall, to instead end in a grounded male plug.

This solenoid is most likely operated by a transformer with a secondary
voltage of around 24 volts.

Working on low voltage wiring is easy to do and should not need to
follow a lot of codes. Therefore, the simple solution is to not touch
the AC supply voltage at all. Instead, buy an extra transformer to be
powered from the generator. Install a DPDT (Double pole double throw)
switch in a box, and connect this to secondary of both transformers.
When the switch is flipped in one direction, the furnace will run the
transformer from the power line. When flipped the other way, it will
run from the generator. Label the switch so you know which way to flip
the switch.

You can buy a switch like this at Radio Shack. You can also buy small
aluminum boxes there to install it after drilling some holes in the box
for the switch and the wires. A DPDT switch has 6 terminals on the
back. The 2 middle ones go to the 2 wires going to the furnace. The 2
terminals on the left go to the transformer from the generator, the two
on the right go to the 2 wires from the line powered transformer.

Find a buddy who plays around with electronics to help if you need help.
There are ham radio guys and electronics experimenters all over the
country. Maybe the Radio Shack clerk knows of someone, or call a few
local TV repair shops.

Be sure to buy a transformer MADE for your furnace. Call a furnace
repair shop.

Problem solved!


Won't run the exhaust fan or any pumps etc.

On Thu, 02 Feb 2012 17:16:11 -0600, wrote:

On 2 Feb 2012 15:08:43 -0500, (David Combs) wrote:

Here's what I want to do.

I've got steam/boiler heater, runs on gas, the only electricty
needed is to run the (solenoid?) thermostat, basically.

By "thermostat", do you mean thermostatically controlled valve?

That, and the thermostat, are in the same circuit and would be powered
by the transformer which is powered by the AC.

And the ignitor also. It's not enough to turn on the gas, you have to
light it too.

It's powered via a cable (covered in flexible metal tubing)
that connects into the wall 110-AC line.

What I want to do is get that changed from that direct connection
to the wall, to instead end in a grounded male plug.

This solenoid is most likely operated by a transformer with a secondary
voltage of around 24 volts.

Working on low voltage wiring is easy to do and should not need to
follow a lot of codes. Therefore, the simple solution is to not touch
the AC supply voltage at all. Instead, buy an extra transformer to be
powered from the generator. Install a DPDT (Double pole double throw)
switch in a box, and connect this to secondary of both transformers.
When the switch is flipped in one direction, the furnace will run the
transformer from the power line. When flipped the other way, it will
run from the generator. Label the switch so you know which way to flip
the switch.

You can buy a switch like this at Radio Shack. You can also buy small
aluminum boxes there to install it after drilling some holes in the box
for the switch and the wires. A DPDT switch has 6 terminals on the
back. The 2 middle ones go to the 2 wires going to the furnace. The 2
terminals on the left go to the transformer from the generator, the two
on the right go to the 2 wires from the line powered transformer.

Find a buddy who plays around with electronics to help if you need help.
There are ham radio guys and electronics experimenters all over the
country. Maybe the Radio Shack clerk knows of someone, or call a few
local TV repair shops.

Be sure to buy a transformer MADE for your furnace. Call a furnace
repair shop.

My first month in my 4-year old house, the AC failed, because the
furnace transformer failed. I went to a heating supply house and
since the transformer was part of the furnace control panel, his
reflex was to sell me a new control panel, for 400 dollars (in 1983)

I whined and he sold me a 24 volt transformer for maybe 30 dollars**,.
AFAIK all that is necessary is that it be 24 volts and big enough, to
power the furnace controls and the AC controls. Since the AC
compressor is on a separate cirucit, and the furnace air circulation
fan are on separate cirucits from the 24 volt control circuit, the
transformer doesn't have to be that big. Are you sure it has to be
made for the furnace? In my case it was a generic 24 volt
transformer, and I probably could have gotten it for less than the 20
or 30 dollars I paid at Radio Shack if they had one big enough, that
is, not a wall wart, not universal, and enough amps.


**I'm still using the same transformer 28 years later. It was too big
to fit where the original transformer was, so I mounted it on a
shelf/panel inside the furnace, though it could be mounted outside the
furnace too.

Problem solved!

On 02 Feb 2012 22:32:55 GMT, Sjouke Burry s@b wrote:

"Bill" wrote in news:9p0bsnFhbbU1
:

"David Combs" wrote in message
Here's what I want to do.

I've got steam/boiler heater, runs on gas, the only electricty
needed is to run the (solenoid?) thermostat, basically.

It's powered via a cable (covered in flexible metal tubing)
that connects into the wall 110-AC line.

What I want to do is get that changed from that direct connection
to the wall, to instead end in a grounded male plug.

That's it!


The more simple something is, the cheaper the cost. Although it
typically costs around $100 these days for anyone to just knock on
your door (minimum charge).

And an electrician might not carry plugs. Perhaps you could buy a good
quality plug and have that on hand before he arrives. Then he would
not need to spend time going to the store to get one.

Get a plug like this...
http://www.northerntool.com/images/p.../312114_lg.jpg


Do they do something special to uglyfy those plugs you use???
Ours look like

http://www.kleinspul.nl/products_pic...st_legrand.jpg

Way back when, we hired artists to uglify them. Makes us special.

On 2/3/2012 5:01 AM, micky wrote:
On Thu, 02 Feb 2012 17:16:11 -0600, wrote:

On 2 Feb 2012 15:08:43 -0500, (David Combs) wrote:

Here's what I want to do.

I've got steam/boiler heater, runs on gas, the only electricty
needed is to run the (solenoid?) thermostat, basically.

By "thermostat", do you mean thermostatically controlled valve?

That, and the thermostat, are in the same circuit and would be powered
by the transformer which is powered by the AC.

This is not a furnace, or furnace/AC, it's a steam boiler, and a crude
one at that. The 24 volt gas valve is controlled by the wall thermostat.
There is a pressure switch or switches that limit the steam. That's it,
no ignitor, it's standing pilot, but he does have a draft inducer fan
that needs line voltage.

And the ignitor also. It's not enough to turn on the gas, you have to
light it too.

It's powered via a cable (covered in flexible metal tubing)
that connects into the wall 110-AC line.

What I want to do is get that changed from that direct connection
to the wall, to instead end in a grounded male plug.

This solenoid is most likely operated by a transformer with a secondary
voltage of around 24 volts.

Working on low voltage wiring is easy to do and should not need to
follow a lot of codes. Therefore, the simple solution is to not touch
the AC supply voltage at all. Instead, buy an extra transformer to be
powered from the generator. Install a DPDT (Double pole double throw)
switch in a box, and connect this to secondary of both transformers.
When the switch is flipped in one direction, the furnace will run the
transformer from the power line. When flipped the other way, it will
run from the generator. Label the switch so you know which way to flip
the switch.

You can buy a switch like this at Radio Shack. You can also buy small
aluminum boxes there to install it after drilling some holes in the box
for the switch and the wires. A DPDT switch has 6 terminals on the
back. The 2 middle ones go to the 2 wires going to the furnace. The 2
terminals on the left go to the transformer from the generator, the two
on the right go to the 2 wires from the line powered transformer.

Find a buddy who plays around with electronics to help if you need help.
There are ham radio guys and electronics experimenters all over the
country. Maybe the Radio Shack clerk knows of someone, or call a few
local TV repair shops.

Be sure to buy a transformer MADE for your furnace. Call a furnace
repair shop.

My first month in my 4-year old house, the AC failed, because the
furnace transformer failed. I went to a heating supply house and
since the transformer was part of the furnace control panel, his
reflex was to sell me a new control panel, for 400 dollars (in 1983)

I whined and he sold me a 24 volt transformer for maybe 30 dollars**,.
AFAIK all that is necessary is that it be 24 volts and big enough, to
power the furnace controls and the AC controls. Since the AC
compressor is on a separate cirucit, and the furnace air circulation
fan are on separate cirucits from the 24 volt control circuit, the
transformer doesn't have to be that big. Are you sure it has to be
made for the furnace? In my case it was a generic 24 volt
transformer, and I probably could have gotten it for less than the 20
or 30 dollars I paid at Radio Shack if they had one big enough, that
is, not a wall wart, not universal, and enough amps.


**I'm still using the same transformer 28 years later. It was too big
to fit where the original transformer was, so I mounted it on a
shelf/panel inside the furnace, though it could be mounted outside the
furnace too.

Problem solved!

On 2/2/2012 11:05 PM, wrote:
On Thu, 02 Feb 2012 17:46:14 -0500, wrote:

On 2/2/2012 3:08 PM, David Combs wrote:
Here's what I want to do.

I've got steam/boiler heater, runs on gas, the only electricty
needed is to run the (solenoid?) thermostat, basically.

It's powered via a cable (covered in flexible metal tubing)
that connects into the wall 110-AC line.

What I want to do is get that changed from that direct connection
to the wall, to instead end in a grounded male plug.

That's it!

Probably requiring another separate female socket box to plug
it into.

WHY? So that when the power goes out and I get my small
generator cranked up, I can unplug the heating apparatus
(boiler, etc) from the wall and plug it into an extension
cord from the generator. So I don't freeze my ass.

---

Now, I figure that this has to be done "to code", thus has
to be done by a licensed electrician.

So these guys recommended by my (*very* smart plumber)
came over to look at the "job".

At first the older of the two gave me all this gobbledygook
about the code requiring him to add some mechanism to the
circuit-breaker panel to avoid having the generator back-feeding
into the house wiring when the city power came back on, and
my generator was still connected.

Complete BS, of course, because the two power sources,]
the house power and the generator, are TOTALLY isolated --
the boiler has only this single plug, and it's plugged
into one of three places:
. the house.
. the generator
. nowhere -- it's "unplugged".

-----

Now, if you were an electrician, how much would YOU
charge to do this?


Oh, gotta add this. There's TWO (gas) heat generators:
. the big boiler, which heats the floors ABOVE it.
. a small one, that supplies (via hot water) heat to
the basement (ie the same floor the boilers are
on), the reason being that 15 yearsago my wife's
aging parents came to live with us (couldn't manage
on their own, what with macular degeneration, etc), so
we converted the (finished) basement into a wee
kitchenless apartment for them.

And one third thing. There's a continually running fan
in the boiler exhaust pipe to force the "exhaust"
up the chimney, not allowing it to (on windy day)
stay in the boiler room and flow under the door
to the rest of the basement -- which it often did until
the fan was added.

That too is wired directly into the wall, and also must
be converted into a plug. What's that, 200 watts?


-----

This job seems so darned simple that it might not even
be worth the trip over to do the work, unless they charged
up the gazoo (per minute). (I say this because it's been
an entire week since those two guys came over, and no
estimate yet. Looks like they don't want to do it at all,
maybe.)

So that I can judge whether an offer makes sense or not,
what might YOU charge to do this? (Location: Westchester
County, N.Y.)


Hey, thanks so much!


David


As gfretwell points out, you can't properly wire your boiler to a cord
and plug. To do what you want, properly, you'll need one of these:


http://www.wayfair.com/Reliance-Cont...d=FR49-RLC1017

The job will take less than an hour and the typical service charge for
that time, in your area will be around $150


I've seen furnaces connected with a twist-lock plug - it meets the
requirement for a disconnect within reach of the furnace.(takes the
place of a switch) and is also a foolproof way of connecting to a
genset.

That maybe true in Canada, but it doesn't meet 422.16 of the Nec, in the
U.S., at least not for your garden variety central heating system.

On Feb 3, 7:07*am, RBM wrote:
On 2/3/2012 5:01 AM, micky wrote:

On Thu, 02 Feb 2012 17:16:11 -0600, wrote:

On 2 Feb 2012 15:08:43 -0500, (David Combs) wrote:

Here's what I want to do.

I've got steam/boiler heater, runs on gas, the only electricty
needed is to run the (solenoid?) thermostat, basically.

By "thermostat", do you mean thermostatically controlled valve?

That, and the thermostat, are in the same circuit and would be powered
by the transformer which is powered by the AC.

This is not a furnace, or furnace/AC, it's a steam boiler, and a crude
one at that. The 24 volt gas valve is controlled by the wall thermostat.
There is a pressure switch or switches that limit the steam. That's it,
no ignitor, it's standing pilot, but he does have a draft inducer fan
that needs line voltage.





And the ignitor also. *It's not enough to turn on the gas, you have to
light it too.

It's powered via a cable (covered in flexible metal tubing)
that connects into the wall 110-AC line.

What I want to do is get that changed from that direct connection
to the wall, to instead end in a grounded male plug.

This solenoid is most likely operated by a transformer with a secondary
voltage of around 24 volts.

Working on low voltage wiring is easy to do and should not need to
follow a lot of codes. *Therefore, the simple solution is to not touch
the AC supply voltage at all. *Instead, buy an extra transformer to be
powered from the generator. *Install a DPDT (Double pole double throw)
switch in a box, and connect this to secondary of both transformers.
When the switch is flipped in one direction, the furnace will run the
transformer from the power line. *When flipped the other way, it will
run from the generator. *Label the switch so you know which way to flip
the switch.

You can buy a switch like this at Radio Shack. *You can also buy small
aluminum boxes there to install it after drilling some holes in the box
for the switch and the wires. *A DPDT switch has 6 terminals on the
back. *The 2 middle ones go to the 2 wires going to the furnace. *The 2
terminals on the left go to the transformer from the generator, the two
on the right go to the 2 wires from the line powered transformer.

Find a buddy who plays around with electronics to help if you need help.
There are ham radio guys and electronics experimenters all over the
country. *Maybe the Radio Shack clerk knows of someone, or call a few
local TV repair shops.

Be sure to buy a transformer MADE for your furnace. *Call a furnace
repair shop.

My first month in my 4-year old house, the AC failed, because the
furnace transformer failed. * *I went to a heating supply house and
since the transformer was part of the furnace control panel, his
reflex was to sell me a new control panel, for 400 dollars (in 1983)

I whined and he sold me a 24 volt transformer for maybe 30 dollars**,.
AFAIK all that is necessary is that it be 24 volts and big enough, to
power the furnace controls and the AC controls. * Since the AC
compressor is on a separate cirucit, and the furnace air circulation
fan are on separate cirucits from the 24 volt control circuit, the
transformer doesn't have to be that big. *Are you sure it has to be
made for the furnace? *In my case it was a generic 24 volt
transformer, and I probably could have gotten it for less than the 20
or *30 dollars I paid at Radio Shack if they had one big enough, that
is, not a wall wart, not universal, and enough amps.

**I'm still using the same transformer 28 years later. *It was too big
to fit where the original transformer was, so I mounted it on a
shelf/panel inside the furnace, though it could be mounted outside the
furnace too.

Problem solved!- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -


I would consider going one step further. Instead of the switch/inlet
for just the furnace, he could put an inlet/breaker on the panel and
install an Interlockit on the panel to prevent backfeeding. For
just a bit more money, he gets to choose what in the house he
wants to power and when. Could power the furnace, fridge, some
lights,
etc.

http://www.interlockkit.com/

On 2/3/2012 7:22 AM, RBM wrote:
On 2/2/2012 11:05 PM, wrote:

I've seen furnaces connected with a twist-lock plug - it meets the
requirement for a disconnect within reach of the furnace.(takes the
place of a switch) and is also a foolproof way of connecting to a
genset.

That maybe true in Canada, but it doesn't meet 422.16 of the Nec, in the
U.S., at least not for your garden variety central heating system.


Check with your local electrical inspector.

If done properly, ours said it was legal and safe to do the plug and
cord setup.

His only recommendation was to use a 12 gauge appliance cord set, proper
strain relief (not romex clamp) and a high-quality 20 amp receptacle.

On 2/3/2012 4:34 PM, Horace Greeley wrote:
On 2/3/2012 7:22 AM, RBM wrote:
On 2/2/2012 11:05 PM, wrote:

I've seen furnaces connected with a twist-lock plug - it meets the
requirement for a disconnect within reach of the furnace.(takes the
place of a switch) and is also a foolproof way of connecting to a
genset.

That maybe true in Canada, but it doesn't meet 422.16 of the Nec, in the
U.S., at least not for your garden variety central heating system.


Check with your local electrical inspector.

If done properly, ours said it was legal and safe to do the plug and
cord setup.

His only recommendation was to use a 12 gauge appliance cord set, proper
strain relief (not romex clamp) and a high-quality 20 amp receptacle.

That really makes no sense. Typical oil burner/ furnace is fed with a 15
amp circuit. It's either code compliant or it's not, regardless of size
or ampacity of cord and receptacle.

On Fri, 03 Feb 2012 17:04:31 -0500, RBM wrote:

On 2/3/2012 4:34 PM, Horace Greeley wrote:
On 2/3/2012 7:22 AM, RBM wrote:
On 2/2/2012 11:05 PM, wrote:

I've seen furnaces connected with a twist-lock plug - it meets the
requirement for a disconnect within reach of the furnace.(takes the
place of a switch) and is also a foolproof way of connecting to a
genset.

That maybe true in Canada, but it doesn't meet 422.16 of the Nec, in the
U.S., at least not for your garden variety central heating system.


Check with your local electrical inspector.

If done properly, ours said it was legal and safe to do the plug and
cord setup.

His only recommendation was to use a 12 gauge appliance cord set, proper
strain relief (not romex clamp) and a high-quality 20 amp receptacle.

That really makes no sense. Typical oil burner/ furnace is fed with a 15
amp circuit. It's either code compliant or it's not, regardless of size
or ampacity of cord and receptacle.

20 amp twist locks are a lot more common than 15 amp twist locks.

On 2/3/2012 5:38 PM, wrote:
On Fri, 03 Feb 2012 17:04:31 -0500, wrote:

On 2/3/2012 4:34 PM, Horace Greeley wrote:
On 2/3/2012 7:22 AM, RBM wrote:
On 2/2/2012 11:05 PM, wrote:

I've seen furnaces connected with a twist-lock plug - it meets the
requirement for a disconnect within reach of the furnace.(takes the
place of a switch) and is also a foolproof way of connecting to a
genset.

That maybe true in Canada, but it doesn't meet 422.16 of the Nec, in the
U.S., at least not for your garden variety central heating system.


Check with your local electrical inspector.

If done properly, ours said it was legal and safe to do the plug and
cord setup.

His only recommendation was to use a 12 gauge appliance cord set, proper
strain relief (not romex clamp) and a high-quality 20 amp receptacle.

That really makes no sense. Typical oil burner/ furnace is fed with a 15
amp circuit. It's either code compliant or it's not, regardless of size
or ampacity of cord and receptacle.

20 amp twist locks are a lot more common than 15 amp twist locks.

.... and that has what to do with anything code related?

On 2/3/2012 1:34 PM, Horace Greeley wrote:
On 2/3/2012 7:22 AM, RBM wrote:
On 2/2/2012 11:05 PM, wrote:

I've seen furnaces connected with a twist-lock plug - it meets the
requirement for a disconnect within reach of the furnace.(takes the
place of a switch) and is also a foolproof way of connecting to a
genset.

That maybe true in Canada, but it doesn't meet 422.16 of the Nec, in the
U.S., at least not for your garden variety central heating system.


Check with your local electrical inspector.

If done properly, ours said it was legal and safe to do the plug and
cord setup.

His only recommendation was to use a 12 gauge appliance cord set, proper
strain relief (not romex clamp) and a high-quality 20 amp receptacle.

I went thru the same process.
Prevailing opinion is that devices permanently attached to the structure
must be permanently wired. Heating system seems to be permanently attached.
Reading the NEC, it appears that's what it says.

So, I went down to the permit office and talked with the inspector.
He said, "no problem; putting a socket in the box and plug on the wire
will pass my inspection".

On 2/3/2012 6:30 PM, mike wrote:
On 2/3/2012 1:34 PM, Horace Greeley wrote:
On 2/3/2012 7:22 AM, RBM wrote:
On 2/2/2012 11:05 PM, wrote:

I've seen furnaces connected with a twist-lock plug - it meets the
requirement for a disconnect within reach of the furnace.(takes the
place of a switch) and is also a foolproof way of connecting to a
genset.

That maybe true in Canada, but it doesn't meet 422.16 of the Nec, in the
U.S., at least not for your garden variety central heating system.


Check with your local electrical inspector.

If done properly, ours said it was legal and safe to do the plug and
cord setup.

His only recommendation was to use a 12 gauge appliance cord set, proper
strain relief (not romex clamp) and a high-quality 20 amp receptacle.

I went thru the same process.
Prevailing opinion is that devices permanently attached to the structure
must be permanently wired. Heating system seems to be permanently attached.
Reading the NEC, it appears that's what it says.

The Nec requires that it be designed to be unattached , and removed for
servicing, for a cord and plug to be used. Not too many central heating
systems that meet that criteria.

So, I went down to the permit office and talked with the inspector.
He said, "no problem; putting a socket in the box and plug on the wire
will pass my inspection".

On Fri, 03 Feb 2012 18:21:59 -0500, RBM wrote:

On 2/3/2012 5:38 PM, wrote:
On Fri, 03 Feb 2012 17:04:31 -0500, wrote:

On 2/3/2012 4:34 PM, Horace Greeley wrote:
On 2/3/2012 7:22 AM, RBM wrote:
On 2/2/2012 11:05 PM, wrote:

I've seen furnaces connected with a twist-lock plug - it meets the
requirement for a disconnect within reach of the furnace.(takes the
place of a switch) and is also a foolproof way of connecting to a
genset.

That maybe true in Canada, but it doesn't meet 422.16 of the Nec, in the
U.S., at least not for your garden variety central heating system.


Check with your local electrical inspector.

If done properly, ours said it was legal and safe to do the plug and
cord setup.

His only recommendation was to use a 12 gauge appliance cord set, proper
strain relief (not romex clamp) and a high-quality 20 amp receptacle.

That really makes no sense. Typical oil burner/ furnace is fed with a 15
amp circuit. It's either code compliant or it's not, regardless of size
or ampacity of cord and receptacle.

20 amp twist locks are a lot more common than 15 amp twist locks.

... and that has what to do with anything code related?


Nothing - but it has an awfull lot to do with why one might use a 20
amp cord/plug. As far as the code:


422.16 Flexible Cords.
(A) General. Flexible cord shall be permitted (1) for the
connection of appliances to facilitate their frequent interchange
or to prevent the transmission of noise or vibration

If you have a "compliant coupling" on the ductwork to eliminate
vibration, the flexible cord is allowed under the code for the same
reason.. Immaterial that the rigid gas line passes vibration to the
house. No inspector can say FOR SURE that the cord is not there for
vibration reasons - and if it is allowed for that purpose there is no
SAFETY reason for denying it - hense the overlooking of the
"infraction" by so many inspectors.

On Fri, 03 Feb 2012 18:48:40 -0500, RBM wrote:

On 2/3/2012 6:30 PM, mike wrote:
On 2/3/2012 1:34 PM, Horace Greeley wrote:
On 2/3/2012 7:22 AM, RBM wrote:
On 2/2/2012 11:05 PM, wrote:

I've seen furnaces connected with a twist-lock plug - it meets the
requirement for a disconnect within reach of the furnace.(takes the
place of a switch) and is also a foolproof way of connecting to a
genset.

That maybe true in Canada, but it doesn't meet 422.16 of the Nec, in the
U.S., at least not for your garden variety central heating system.


Check with your local electrical inspector.

If done properly, ours said it was legal and safe to do the plug and
cord setup.

His only recommendation was to use a 12 gauge appliance cord set, proper
strain relief (not romex clamp) and a high-quality 20 amp receptacle.

I went thru the same process.
Prevailing opinion is that devices permanently attached to the structure
must be permanently wired. Heating system seems to be permanently attached.
Reading the NEC, it appears that's what it says.

The Nec requires that it be designed to be unattached , and removed for
servicing, for a cord and plug to be used. Not too many central heating
systems that meet that criteria.

So, I went down to the permit office and talked with the inspector.
He said, "no problem; putting a socket in the box and plug on the wire
will pass my inspection".

That's only the "B" part.
There IS another allowed reason.

422.16 Flexible Cords.
(A) General. Flexible cord shall be permitted (1) for the
connection of appliances to facilitate their frequent interchange
or to prevent the transmission of noise or vibration


A power failure every year or less can be considered "frequent
interchange". - if you don't wish to make a case for anti-vibration
(and you do not have a "compliant connection" or whatever you call the
fabric connector on the duct hood.

On 2/3/2012 7:09 PM, wrote:
On Fri, 03 Feb 2012 18:21:59 -0500, wrote:

On 2/3/2012 5:38 PM, wrote:
On Fri, 03 Feb 2012 17:04:31 -0500, wrote:

On 2/3/2012 4:34 PM, Horace Greeley wrote:
On 2/3/2012 7:22 AM, RBM wrote:
On 2/2/2012 11:05 PM, wrote:

I've seen furnaces connected with a twist-lock plug - it meets the
requirement for a disconnect within reach of the furnace.(takes the
place of a switch) and is also a foolproof way of connecting to a
genset.

That maybe true in Canada, but it doesn't meet 422.16 of the Nec, in the
U.S., at least not for your garden variety central heating system.


Check with your local electrical inspector.

If done properly, ours said it was legal and safe to do the plug and
cord setup.

His only recommendation was to use a 12 gauge appliance cord set, proper
strain relief (not romex clamp) and a high-quality 20 amp receptacle.

That really makes no sense. Typical oil burner/ furnace is fed with a 15
amp circuit. It's either code compliant or it's not, regardless of size
or ampacity of cord and receptacle.

20 amp twist locks are a lot more common than 15 amp twist locks.

... and that has what to do with anything code related?


Nothing - but it has an awfull lot to do with why one might use a 20
amp cord/plug. As far as the code:


422.16 Flexible Cords.
(A) General. Flexible cord shall be permitted (1) for the
connection of appliances to facilitate their frequent interchange
or to prevent the transmission of noise or vibration

If you have a "compliant coupling" on the ductwork to eliminate
vibration, the flexible cord is allowed under the code for the same
reason.. Immaterial that the rigid gas line passes vibration to the
house. No inspector can say FOR SURE that the cord is not there for
vibration reasons - and if it is allowed for that purpose there is no
SAFETY reason for denying it - hense the overlooking of the
"infraction" by so many inspectors.

I don't think too many inspectors would consider a typical oil burner as
producing noise or vibration as a reason to use a flexible cord. Second,
you left out half of the article. The half where it clarifies the use of
cords on appliances. If you're going to try and twist and tweak the
code, at least furnish all the information

On 2/3/2012 7:13 PM, wrote:
On Fri, 03 Feb 2012 18:48:40 -0500, wrote:

On 2/3/2012 6:30 PM, mike wrote:
On 2/3/2012 1:34 PM, Horace Greeley wrote:
On 2/3/2012 7:22 AM, RBM wrote:
On 2/2/2012 11:05 PM, wrote:

I've seen furnaces connected with a twist-lock plug - it meets the
requirement for a disconnect within reach of the furnace.(takes the
place of a switch) and is also a foolproof way of connecting to a
genset.

That maybe true in Canada, but it doesn't meet 422.16 of the Nec, in the
U.S., at least not for your garden variety central heating system.


Check with your local electrical inspector.

If done properly, ours said it was legal and safe to do the plug and
cord setup.

His only recommendation was to use a 12 gauge appliance cord set, proper
strain relief (not romex clamp) and a high-quality 20 amp receptacle.

I went thru the same process.
Prevailing opinion is that devices permanently attached to the structure
must be permanently wired. Heating system seems to be permanently attached.
Reading the NEC, it appears that's what it says.

The Nec requires that it be designed to be unattached , and removed for
servicing, for a cord and plug to be used. Not too many central heating
systems that meet that criteria.

So, I went down to the permit office and talked with the inspector.
He said, "no problem; putting a socket in the box and plug on the wire
will pass my inspection".

That's only the "B" part.
There IS another allowed reason.

422.16 Flexible Cords.
(A) General. Flexible cord shall be permitted (1) for the
connection of appliances to facilitate their frequent interchange
or to prevent the transmission of noise or vibration


A power failure every year or less can be considered "frequent
interchange". - if you don't wish to make a case for anti-vibration
(and you do not have a "compliant connection" or whatever you call the
fabric connector on the duct hood.

Boy, you are one master of misinterpretation. It's referring to
interchanging the appliance. You don't replace your boiler because of
frequent power failures.
I would love to see you try and run your silly arguments by an
electrical inspector. They'd laugh you right out of the business.

On Fri, 03 Feb 2012 20:29:41 -0500, RBM wrote:

On 2/3/2012 7:09 PM, wrote:
On Fri, 03 Feb 2012 18:21:59 -0500, wrote:

On 2/3/2012 5:38 PM, wrote:
On Fri, 03 Feb 2012 17:04:31 -0500, wrote:

On 2/3/2012 4:34 PM, Horace Greeley wrote:
On 2/3/2012 7:22 AM, RBM wrote:
On 2/2/2012 11:05 PM, wrote:

I've seen furnaces connected with a twist-lock plug - it meets the
requirement for a disconnect within reach of the furnace.(takes the
place of a switch) and is also a foolproof way of connecting to a
genset.

That maybe true in Canada, but it doesn't meet 422.16 of the Nec, in the
U.S., at least not for your garden variety central heating system.


Check with your local electrical inspector.

If done properly, ours said it was legal and safe to do the plug and
cord setup.

His only recommendation was to use a 12 gauge appliance cord set, proper
strain relief (not romex clamp) and a high-quality 20 amp receptacle.

That really makes no sense. Typical oil burner/ furnace is fed with a 15
amp circuit. It's either code compliant or it's not, regardless of size
or ampacity of cord and receptacle.

20 amp twist locks are a lot more common than 15 amp twist locks.

... and that has what to do with anything code related?


Nothing - but it has an awfull lot to do with why one might use a 20
amp cord/plug. As far as the code:


422.16 Flexible Cords.
(A) General. Flexible cord shall be permitted (1) for the
connection of appliances to facilitate their frequent interchange
or to prevent the transmission of noise or vibration

If you have a "compliant coupling" on the ductwork to eliminate
vibration, the flexible cord is allowed under the code for the same
reason.. Immaterial that the rigid gas line passes vibration to the
house. No inspector can say FOR SURE that the cord is not there for
vibration reasons - and if it is allowed for that purpose there is no
SAFETY reason for denying it - hense the overlooking of the
"infraction" by so many inspectors.

I don't think too many inspectors would consider a typical oil burner as
producing noise or vibration as a reason to use a flexible cord. Second,
you left out half of the article. The half where it clarifies the use of
cords on appliances. If you're going to try and twist and tweak the
code, at least furnish all the information

No twisting at all
You forgot - it is one OR the other. If one can be made to apply/fit
the other doesn't mean a hill of beans.

On Fri, 03 Feb 2012 20:37:07 -0500, RBM wrote:

On 2/3/2012 7:13 PM, wrote:
On Fri, 03 Feb 2012 18:48:40 -0500, wrote:

On 2/3/2012 6:30 PM, mike wrote:
On 2/3/2012 1:34 PM, Horace Greeley wrote:
On 2/3/2012 7:22 AM, RBM wrote:
On 2/2/2012 11:05 PM, wrote:

I've seen furnaces connected with a twist-lock plug - it meets the
requirement for a disconnect within reach of the furnace.(takes the
place of a switch) and is also a foolproof way of connecting to a
genset.

That maybe true in Canada, but it doesn't meet 422.16 of the Nec, in the
U.S., at least not for your garden variety central heating system.


Check with your local electrical inspector.

If done properly, ours said it was legal and safe to do the plug and
cord setup.

His only recommendation was to use a 12 gauge appliance cord set, proper
strain relief (not romex clamp) and a high-quality 20 amp receptacle.

I went thru the same process.
Prevailing opinion is that devices permanently attached to the structure
must be permanently wired. Heating system seems to be permanently attached.
Reading the NEC, it appears that's what it says.

The Nec requires that it be designed to be unattached , and removed for
servicing, for a cord and plug to be used. Not too many central heating
systems that meet that criteria.

So, I went down to the permit office and talked with the inspector.
He said, "no problem; putting a socket in the box and plug on the wire
will pass my inspection".

That's only the "B" part.
There IS another allowed reason.

422.16 Flexible Cords.
(A) General. Flexible cord shall be permitted (1) for the
connection of appliances to facilitate their frequent interchange
or to prevent the transmission of noise or vibration


A power failure every year or less can be considered "frequent
interchange". - if you don't wish to make a case for anti-vibration
(and you do not have a "compliant connection" or whatever you call the
fabric connector on the duct hood.

Boy, you are one master of misinterpretation. It's referring to
interchanging the appliance. You don't replace your boiler because of
frequent power failures.
I would love to see you try and run your silly arguments by an
electrical inspector. They'd laugh you right out of the business.
They get inspected and passed all the time. And not just in Ontario,
or Canada.

On Feb 3, 9:24*pm, wrote:
On Fri, 03 Feb 2012 20:29:41 -0500, RBM wrote:
On 2/3/2012 7:09 PM, wrote:
On Fri, 03 Feb 2012 18:21:59 -0500, *wrote:

On 2/3/2012 5:38 PM, wrote:
On Fri, 03 Feb 2012 17:04:31 -0500, * wrote:

On 2/3/2012 4:34 PM, Horace Greeley wrote:
On 2/3/2012 7:22 AM, RBM wrote:
On 2/2/2012 11:05 PM, wrote:

I've seen furnaces connected with a twist-lock plug - it meets the
requirement for a disconnect within reach of the furnace.(takes the
place of a switch) and is also a foolproof way of connecting to a
genset.

That maybe true in Canada, but it doesn't meet 422.16 of the Nec, in the
U.S., at least not for your garden variety central heating system..

Check with your local electrical inspector.

If done properly, ours said it was legal and safe to do the plug and
cord setup.

His only recommendation was to use a 12 gauge appliance cord set, proper
strain relief (not romex clamp) and a high-quality 20 amp receptacle.

That really makes no sense. Typical oil burner/ furnace is fed with a 15
amp circuit. It's either code compliant or it's not, regardless of size
or ampacity of cord and receptacle.

20 amp twist locks are a lot more common than 15 amp twist locks.

... and that has what to do with anything code related?

* Nothing - but it has an awfull lot to do with why one might use a 20
amp cord/plug. *As far as the code:

422.16 Flexible Cords.
(A) General. Flexible cord shall be permitted (1) for the
connection of appliances to facilitate their frequent interchange
or to prevent the transmission of noise or vibration

* If you have a "compliant coupling" on the ductwork to eliminate
vibration, the flexible cord is allowed under the code for the same
reason.. Immaterial that the rigid gas line passes vibration to the
house. *No inspector can say FOR SURE that the cord is not there for
vibration reasons - and if it is allowed for that purpose there is no
SAFETY reason for *denying it - hense the overlooking of the
"infraction" by so many inspectors.

I don't think too many inspectors would consider a typical oil burner as
producing noise or vibration as a reason to use a flexible cord. Second,
you left out half of the article. The half where it clarifies the use of
cords on appliances. If you're going to try and twist and tweak the
code, at least furnish all the information

No twisting at all
* You forgot - it is one OR the other. If one can be made to apply/fit
the other doesn't mean a hill of beans.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Actually, all of it is up to the inspector. You can argue all
you want about whether a furnace vibrates, but if the inspector
says it's no good, you're screwed. I would suspect lots of
inspectors would tell you that if the furnace vibrates so much
that you need a flex cord, you need a new furnace.

On 2/3/2012 8:25 PM, wrote:
On Fri, 03 Feb 2012 20:37:07 -0500, wrote:

On 2/3/2012 7:13 PM, wrote:
On Fri, 03 Feb 2012 18:48:40 -0500, wrote:

On 2/3/2012 6:30 PM, mike wrote:
On 2/3/2012 1:34 PM, Horace Greeley wrote:
On 2/3/2012 7:22 AM, RBM wrote:
On 2/2/2012 11:05 PM, wrote:

I've seen furnaces connected with a twist-lock plug - it meets the
requirement for a disconnect within reach of the furnace.(takes the
place of a switch) and is also a foolproof way of connecting to a
genset.

That maybe true in Canada, but it doesn't meet 422.16 of the Nec, in the
U.S., at least not for your garden variety central heating system.


Check with your local electrical inspector.

If done properly, ours said it was legal and safe to do the plug and
cord setup.

His only recommendation was to use a 12 gauge appliance cord set, proper
strain relief (not romex clamp) and a high-quality 20 amp receptacle.

I went thru the same process.
Prevailing opinion is that devices permanently attached to the structure
must be permanently wired. Heating system seems to be permanently attached.
Reading the NEC, it appears that's what it says.

The Nec requires that it be designed to be unattached , and removed for
servicing, for a cord and plug to be used. Not too many central heating
systems that meet that criteria.

So, I went down to the permit office and talked with the inspector.
He said, "no problem; putting a socket in the box and plug on the wire
will pass my inspection".

That's only the "B" part.
There IS another allowed reason.

422.16 Flexible Cords.
(A) General. Flexible cord shall be permitted (1) for the
connection of appliances to facilitate their frequent interchange
or to prevent the transmission of noise or vibration


A power failure every year or less can be considered "frequent
interchange". - if you don't wish to make a case for anti-vibration
(and you do not have a "compliant connection" or whatever you call the
fabric connector on the duct hood.

Boy, you are one master of misinterpretation. It's referring to
interchanging the appliance. You don't replace your boiler because of
frequent power failures.
I would love to see you try and run your silly arguments by an
electrical inspector. They'd laugh you right out of the business.

They get inspected and passed all the time. And not just in Ontario,
or Canada.

And you determined that from your Ouija board?

You and Evan generalize what is (allegedly) true where you are to the
universe.

I agree with RBM.

To take a slightly different approach, use of cords is covered in
article 410. Uses permitted is in 410.7-A. Possibly relevant sections a
"(6) Connection of utilization equipment to facilitate frequent interchange.
(7) Prevention of the transmission of noise or vibration.
(8) Appliances where the fastening means and mechanical connections are
specifically designed to permit ready removal for maintenance...."

Sections 6 and 8 are not relevant to boilers in the US. You may have to
often replace your boilers (6) or remove them for maintenance in Canada
(7) but it does not happen in the US.

Any competent electrician in the US (don't know about Canada where
electricians "molest" the wiring) can connect a boiler and avoid the
transmission of vibration. There are numerous flexible wiring methods
and our boilers are massive enough not to vibrate.

But if we imported a Canadian boiler that had enough vibration problem
that a flexible cord was need we couldn't connect it with a plug. Plugs
are covered in 410.7-B. Plugs are not permitted for (7) above.

That is consistent with the more limited 422.16 and with what RBM said.

Incidentally, if a receptacle was allowed it wouldn't be a duplex
receptacle which you suggested.

You could also read the comments of gfretwell who basically says it is
(a minor) wrong but he would do it anyway. (Is it any wonder our youth
are in trouble. Where are the role models...)

--
bud--

On 2/3/2012 5:04 PM, RBM wrote:
On 2/3/2012 4:34 PM, Horace Greeley wrote:


Check with your local electrical inspector.

If done properly, ours said it was legal and safe to do the plug and
cord setup.

His only recommendation was to use a 12 gauge appliance cord set, proper
strain relief (not romex clamp) and a high-quality 20 amp receptacle.

That really makes no sense. Typical oil burner/ furnace is fed with a 15
amp circuit. It's either code compliant or it's not, regardless of size
or ampacity of cord and receptacle.

You want your furnace crapping out because of a cheap piece of junk
outlet that barely holds the plug in place?

Yes, the cheap 50 cent outlets you find at McLowes are code compliant
but they're still junk. You won't find one in my house.

On 2/3/2012 8:37 PM, RBM wrote:
On 2/3/2012 7:13 PM, wrote:


A power failure every year or less can be considered "frequent
interchange". - if you don't wish to make a case for anti-vibration
(and you do not have a "compliant connection" or whatever you call the
fabric connector on the duct hood.

Boy, you are one master of misinterpretation. It's referring to
interchanging the appliance. You don't replace your boiler because of
frequent power failures.
I would love to see you try and run your silly arguments by an
electrical inspector. They'd laugh you right out of the business.

I spoke with an insurance underwriter, their position is:

1. During a power outage, they prefer that you take reasonable steps to
keep your pipes from freezing and causing thousands in damage to your home.

2. They would rather have you run your gas or oil furnace off of an
extension cord and a genset than use one of those portable kerosene or
propane heaters.

On Sat, 04 Feb 2012 11:33:56 -0500, Horace Greeley
wrote:

On 2/3/2012 5:04 PM, RBM wrote:
On 2/3/2012 4:34 PM, Horace Greeley wrote:


Check with your local electrical inspector.

If done properly, ours said it was legal and safe to do the plug and
cord setup.

His only recommendation was to use a 12 gauge appliance cord set, proper
strain relief (not romex clamp) and a high-quality 20 amp receptacle.

That really makes no sense. Typical oil burner/ furnace is fed with a 15
amp circuit. It's either code compliant or it's not, regardless of size
or ampacity of cord and receptacle.

You want your furnace crapping out because of a cheap piece of junk
outlet that barely holds the plug in place?

Yes, the cheap 50 cent outlets you find at McLowes are code compliant
but they're still junk. You won't find one in my house.

Your furnace is plugged into an outlet? Never seen that.

The $.50 outlets (are they that expensive now?) aren't all that bad for places
where there are few insertion cycles. Kitchens, hallways, and the like where
they're used a lot, should have spec or even hospital grade outlets.