This weekend I will finally start cutting & cementing the flagstone on
the walkway (see four photos below for detail) and three questions arose:

Q1: What is UNDER these flagstones on cement (are they glued?)
Q2: If you glue them, how do you keep the tops evenly flat?
Q3: Since the step width varies by 3 inches, can it take a 3" overhang?

Here is a picture of the concrete base that I plan on putting flagstone.
Notice the base starts at 18 inches but eventually narrows to 15".
Can a 3" overhang (maximum) be supported with just the packed soil below?
http://www4.picturepush.com/photo/a/...mg/7433812.jpg

Here is a picture of that same base, only further away to give you a
better idea of the problem set:
http://www5.picturepush.com/photo/a/...mg/7433813.jpg

Here is a picture of the enigma.
What is UNDER these existing flagstones?
Are they simply GLUED on? (There seems to be NOTHING under them!)
http://www1.picturepush.com/photo/a/...mg/7433814.jpg

Here is another picture of the existing flagstones in the water feature.
They appear to have NOTHING under them. Can that be?
http://www3.picturepush.com/photo/a/...40/7433816.jpg

The reason these three question matter is:
a) I need to lay the flagstone on the concrete and I don't know if I glue
them on or if I just grout the spaces between each stone.
b) If I glue them on, I don't know how to keep the tops flat since each
stone is slightly different in thickness.
c) Even though the base starts at 18" wide, it narrows to 15" wide but I
would want the stone to stay the same width.

Any advice is always appreciated!

On Sat, 28 Jan 2012 07:22:25 +0000, Chuck Banshee wrote:
Any advice is always appreciated!

Here is a view further out showing the entire construction zone:
http://www2.picturepush.com/photo/a/...mg/7433855.jpg

The problem I'm having trouble figuring out how to solve is how to put
flagstone along the foundation where the front side is in dirt (with
water pipes unexpectedly popping out when I dug the path) - and the other
side having a 15" to 18" concrete ledge to put the flagstones upon.

How would you suggest I lay the flagstones so that one can walk along the
side of the foundation?

On Jan 28, 7:33*am, Chuck Banshee wrote:
On Sat, 28 Jan 2012 07:22:25 +0000, Chuck Banshee wrote:
Any advice is always appreciated!

Here is a view further out showing the entire construction zone:
*http://www2.picturepush.com/photo/a/...mg/7433855.jpg

The problem I'm having trouble figuring out how to solve is how to put
flagstone along the foundation where the front side is in dirt (with
water pipes unexpectedly popping out when I dug the path) - and the other
side having a 15" to 18" concrete ledge to put the flagstones upon.

How would you suggest I lay the flagstones so that one can walk along the
side of the foundation?

If you are laying flagstone outdoors, they need a prepared foundation.
All topsoil and softsubsoil has to be removed and the hole filled with
rubble and then gravel/sandmix. This has to be machine compacted.
Flags are then laid on a thin layer of sand. This is quite skilled
work to get them looking right.
If you don't do this (ie lay on soft soil etc) they will sink and/or
be subject to frost heave.

On Sat, 28 Jan 2012 00:27:40 -0800, harry wrote:
If you are laying flagstone outdoors, they need a prepared foundation.

For half the walkway, there is already a concrete (rough surface)
foundation. That's the half I'm doing first (because it's easier).

Here is a picture of the step up I tried as the very first effort.
http://picturepush.com/host.php?image=7448448

It took 1 bag of mortar (50#) and one gallon of water. No sand. No rocks.

In hindsight, it wasn't enough to raise the level the required two
inches ... so I have to start over again today.

I did cut the rocks to fit almost seamlessly. The cutting is the easy
part. The hard part is figuring out how to glue it all together.

On Sun, 29 Jan 2012 21:12:22 +0000, Chuck Banshee wrote:

It took 1 bag of mortar (50#) and one gallon of water. No sand. No
rocks.

I think I used the wrong stuff.

What I used was pure mortar (no rock, no sand).

The entire bag barely brought this small spot up to the level of a single
two-by-four set flat on the ground!
http://www5.picturepush.com/photo/a/...mg/7448533.jpg

On Jan 29, 4:19*pm, Chuck Banshee wrote:
On Sun, 29 Jan 2012 21:12:22 +0000, Chuck Banshee wrote:
It took 1 bag of mortar (50#) and one gallon of water. No sand. No
rocks.

I think I used the wrong stuff.

What I used was pure mortar (no rock, no sand).

The entire bag barely brought this small spot up to the level of a single
two-by-four set flat on the ground!
*http://www5.picturepush.com/photo/a/...mg/7448533.jpg

No you have to realize that when you are laying a mortar bed
to raise something up you have to let it set and it does take
quite a bit of material to fill what you think looks like a small
volume of space...

When you have a flat, leveled area that is close in elevation to
where you want your finished flagstone whatever to be at you
would then use a shallow bedding coat of mortar to lay the
stones in... If you set the pavers on the wet 2" of mortar they
would sink unevenly into the wet mortar depending on how
heavy they were and the mortar bed would take forever to cure...

~~ Evan

Chuck Banshee wrote:
On Sun, 29 Jan 2012 21:12:22 +0000, Chuck Banshee wrote:

It took 1 bag of mortar (50#) and one gallon of water. No sand. No
rocks.

I think I used the wrong stuff.

What I used was pure mortar (no rock, no sand).

There is no such thing as mortar without sand. Mortar is cement, sand and
some lime. Add aggregate and it becomes concrete.

--

dadiOH
____________________________

dadiOH's dandies v3.06...
....a help file of info about MP3s, recording from
LP/cassette and tips & tricks on this and that.
Get it at http://mysite.verizon.net/xico

On 1/28/2012 1:33 AM, Chuck Banshee wrote:
On Sat, 28 Jan 2012 07:22:25 +0000, Chuck Banshee wrote:
Any advice is always appreciated!

Here is a view further out showing the entire construction zone:
http://www2.picturepush.com/photo/a/...mg/7433855.jpg

The problem I'm having trouble figuring out how to solve is how to put
flagstone along the foundation where the front side is in dirt (with
water pipes unexpectedly popping out when I dug the path) - and the other
side having a 15" to 18" concrete ledge to put the flagstones upon.

How would you suggest I lay the flagstones so that one can walk along the
side of the foundation?


Chuck, you have more loam to remove. Get a healthy load of "red select"
or whatever compactible select fill is normally available in your area.
Set up an edge form on the outboard edge of the proposed walk. It
will work to grade to a chalk line at the foundation, but it will be
easier to set a grade screed there also. Install, grade, and compact
the fill. You have no requirement to follow the paint line that is
established on your foundation, the walk can follow the layout of the
top cap of the foundation wall which will allow you to go over the pipes
with the fill, raise the control box to the stone grade, and have your
stone walkway. If you ever need to work on the pipes, everything is
fairly easy to remove.

--


___________________________________

Keep the whole world singing . . .
Dan G
remove the seven

On Jan 28, 7:22*am, Chuck Banshee wrote:
This weekend I will finally start cutting & cementing the flagstone on
the walkway (see four photos below for detail) and three questions arose:

Q1: What is UNDER these flagstones on cement (are they glued?)
Q2: If you glue them, how do you keep the tops evenly flat?
Q3: Since the step width varies by 3 inches, can it take a 3" overhang?

Here is a picture of the concrete base that I plan on putting flagstone.
Notice the base starts at 18 inches but eventually narrows to 15".
Can a 3" overhang (maximum) be supported with just the packed soil below?
*http://www4.picturepush.com/photo/a/...mg/7433812.jpg

Here is a picture of that same base, only further away to give you a
better idea of the problem set:
*http://www5.picturepush.com/photo/a/...mg/7433813.jpg

Here is a picture of the enigma.
What is UNDER these existing flagstones?
Are they simply GLUED on? (There seems to be NOTHING under them!)
*http://www1.picturepush.com/photo/a/...mg/7433814.jpg

Here is another picture of the existing flagstones in the water feature.
They appear to have NOTHING under them. Can that be?
*http://www3.picturepush.com/photo/a/...40/7433816.jpg

The reason these three question matter is:
a) I need to lay the flagstone on the concrete and I don't know if I glue
them on or if I just grout the spaces between each stone.
b) If I glue them on, I don't know how to keep the tops flat since each
stone is slightly different in thickness.
c) Even though the base starts at 18" wide, it narrows to 15" wide but I
would want the stone to stay the same width.

Any advice is always appreciated!

If you are laying any sort of paviours on a hard surface they will
have to be bedded in cement. This takes up any irregularities,stops
them from wobbling etc.
There are special cements availablefor thin paviours that are better
than normal sand/cement mix. (Tile/paviour adhesives.)
Different ones for indoor and outdoor and for different sorts of
paviour.

Thin paviours need special care as they can break under load if
unsupported. (ie no voids underneath)

Chuck Banshee wrote:
This weekend I will finally start cutting & cementing the flagstone on
the walkway (see four photos below for detail) and three questions
arose:

Q1: What is UNDER these flagstones on cement (are they glued?)

Glued? No. One sets them in mortar.

Q2: If you glue them, how do you keep the tops evenly flat?

Mortar bed thick enough to let you level the top surfaces. Ever watch a
block layer? Toss out mortar bed, set block, tap block to level with
neighboring block, scrape off ooze out.

If your stones vary considerably in thickness, dry lay them first so you can
see how much mortar you need under the thinnest. The mortar needs to be
stiff enough to support them; you can cheat a bit if need be by using a
couple of pebbles or whatever.

Q3: Since the step width varies by 3 inches, can it take a 3"
overhang?

Not unsupported.

Here is a picture of the concrete base that I plan on putting
flagstone. Notice the base starts at 18 inches but eventually narrows
to 15".
Can a 3" overhang (maximum) be supported with just the packed soil
below? http://www4.picturepush.com/photo/a/...mg/7433812.jpg

Maybe. Best to just even up the slab...dig out, add concrete. If the patch
area is very long, add some dowels...drill horizontally into existing slab,
insert dowels cut from rebar, pour your patch.
_______________________

Regarding "How would you suggest I lay the flagstones so that one can walk
along the
side of the foundation?"...

You really only have two options: raise the walkway or lower the pipes.
______________________

People *do* set flags/bricks/pavers directly on the ground. People do lots
of things and then wonder why what they did disintegrates. If you want a
decent job, you must...

1. Remove the sod/plants/soil to a depth sufficient to accomodate 3" of
compacted bed material + 1" of bedding sand + the thickness of the pavers.

2. Add bedding material. Around here, they use crushed concrete. Works
well, good mix of fines and larger pieces. To get 3" compacted of that, one
needs about 4 1/2". The material used varies depending on where you are.
The bedding material is dumped in then raked out to flatten and provide
desired slope for drainage.

3. Compact

4. Lay sand, rake and even up. The purpose of the sand is to provide a base
into which irregular surfaces can settle. If what you are laying has even
surfaces, you don't really need the sand *IF* the coarser bedding material
has a decent surface.

5. Lay the stone

6. Compact again (to settle stone into sand)

7. Do the joints.
_____________________

You might want to consider having at least the prep work done by pros. We
did 1700 sq.ft. of brick in our courtyard a couple of years ago. The 3-4
man crew of Brazilians did all the prep, layed the bricks and sanded in the
joints in two days. A fair amount of cutting too. The cost, exclusive of
bricks but including all other materials, worked out to be $2.50 sq.ft. A
bargain.

--

dadiOH
____________________________

dadiOH's dandies v3.06...
....a help file of info about MP3s, recording from
LP/cassette and tips & tricks on this and that.
Get it at http://mysite.verizon.net/xico

Some general comments:

1 - From the pic of where the walkway is I don't
understand all the fuss in the other thread about
protecting the PVC pipes against the wall. Looks
like a perfect spot for some flowers, shrubs with
mulch covering the pipes.

2 - As to what is holding the existing flagstones, you
have what appears to be some of the material that
oozed out around the edge in one pic. Chip a piece
off and look at it. Normally you'd expect it to be in
thinset or similar, but it could be some kind of adhesive.

3 - For the new walkway you don't need any of that. You
need a stabilized base, which usually means removing
any soft earth that is there, replacing it with base
material which could be crushed rock or gravel. Then
you put about an inch of sand or stone dust and use
that to bed the flagstone. I'd put down metal edging
first along the sides to give it a clean seperation from
the grass.

On Jan 28, 2:22*am, Chuck Banshee wrote:
This weekend I will finally start cutting & cementing the flagstone on
the walkway (see four photos below for detail) and three questions arose:

Q1: What is UNDER these flagstones on cement (are they glued?)
Q2: If you glue them, how do you keep the tops evenly flat?
Q3: Since the step width varies by 3 inches, can it take a 3" overhang?

Here is a picture of the concrete base that I plan on putting flagstone.
Notice the base starts at 18 inches but eventually narrows to 15".
Can a 3" overhang (maximum) be supported with just the packed soil below?
*http://www4.picturepush.com/photo/a/...mg/7433812.jpg

Here is a picture of that same base, only further away to give you a
better idea of the problem set:
*http://www5.picturepush.com/photo/a/...mg/7433813.jpg

Here is a picture of the enigma.
What is UNDER these existing flagstones?
Are they simply GLUED on? (There seems to be NOTHING under them!)
*http://www1.picturepush.com/photo/a/...mg/7433814.jpg

Here is another picture of the existing flagstones in the water feature.
They appear to have NOTHING under them. Can that be?
*http://www3.picturepush.com/photo/a/...40/7433816.jpg

The reason these three question matter is:
a) I need to lay the flagstone on the concrete and I don't know if I glue
them on or if I just grout the spaces between each stone.
b) If I glue them on, I don't know how to keep the tops flat since each
stone is slightly different in thickness.
c) Even though the base starts at 18" wide, it narrows to 15" wide but I
would want the stone to stay the same width.

Any advice is always appreciated!


You are planning on setting the pavers on the footing for
whatever that stepped planting bed with the "water feature"
in it ?

You need to know what level you will be setting the pavers
at and then either add concrete to the footing so it gets closer
to the finished level so you can use bedding mortar to attach
the stones, or you can use pack (stonedust) material -- not
sand... You would only be creating a situation where water
would be likely to collect and pool under the stones at the
footing which could do all sorts of terrible things over the
passage of time...

Others here have said enough explaining your question
about how the other flagstones are attached...

You need to rent a bigger saw, a gasoline powered cut
off saw with a diamond blade which uses water to keep
the dust down... You have so many cuts coming up and
that small little circular saw will not last through all of them
even with a diamond blade...

Sorry to say this to you but this project looks like it is
adding up to something that is well beyond your skill
level given the questions you have been asking about it...

Hire a professional stone mason to do it for you...

~~ Evan

UPDATE:
It took way longer than I thought it would ... but here is the cut
flagstone laid out (except for the one middle stone) ... ready for mortar
tomorrow.

Left half:
http://www2.picturepush.com/photo/a/...mg/7485160.jpg

Right half:
http://www3.picturepush.com/photo/a/...mg/7485161.jpg

I'm going to try to bring the whole step up about two inches ... so it
will be a challenge to see if the mortar dries before I finish the job.

On Sat, 4 Feb 2012 04:25:40 +0000 (UTC), Chuck Banshee
wrote:

UPDATE:
It took way longer than I thought it would ... but here is the cut
flagstone laid out (except for the one middle stone) ... ready for mortar
tomorrow.

Left half:
http://www2.picturepush.com/photo/a/...mg/7485160.jpg

Right half:
http://www3.picturepush.com/photo/a/...mg/7485161.jpg

I'm going to try to bring the whole step up about two inches ... so it
will be a challenge to see if the mortar dries before I finish the job.




Chuck, I'm no expert on this but is it safe to build up mortar 2"
thick? Is this going to be outside with freezing temps? I was
wondering if it's better to use some kind of cement that can be about
1 to 1.5 inches thick and then place these stones on top of it with
mortar. I realize if I'm correct, this is more work and cost but I'm
concerned about the longevity / durability of your stones and mortar.
Well just a thought and I may be wrong of course.

On Sat, 04 Feb 2012 00:43:47 -0600, Doug wrote:

is it safe to build up mortar 2" thick?
Is this going to be outside with freezing temps?
I was wondering if it's better to use some kind of cement

I don't know either! (I've never done any of this before.)

I 'assume' mortar is as strong as concrete (which is basically mortar
plus aggregate if I understand it correctly). Does the aggregate give
strength or does it just give it bulk for cost reasons?

As for freezing, it 'can' get to freezing out here - but rarely does. We
get a dusting of snow, for example, once every few years. Generally it
drops to freezing about 5 times a year, and always at night only. By
morning it's warmed up and melted.

One reason I need depth is the stones vary in thickness, even though I
tried (I really tried hard) to keep the thickness variation down to a
minimum.

Another reason I 'want' depth is that there is the high spot at the left-
most side that is a ledge about two inches above the rest of the step. I
don't have to meet the two evenly. I 'could' have a small 1-inch step.

The problem is hard to describe so here's a picture of the small ledge
that has two flagstones in it. I was planning on bringing up all 20
flagstones to that same level to eliminate the ledge.
http://www1.picturepush.com/photo/a/...mg/7487774.jpg

So that's why I need the extra couple of inches.

On Feb 4, 9:13*am, Chuck Banshee wrote:
On Sat, 04 Feb 2012 00:43:47 -0600, Doug wrote:
is it safe to build up mortar 2" thick?
* Is this going to be outside with freezing temps?
I was wondering if it's better to use some kind of cement

I don't know either! *(I've never done any of this before.)

I 'assume' mortar is as strong as concrete (which is basically mortar
plus aggregate if I understand it correctly). Does the aggregate give
strength or does it just give it bulk for cost reasons?

As for freezing, it 'can' get to freezing out here - but rarely does. We
get a dusting of snow, for example, once every few years. Generally it
drops to freezing about 5 times a year, and always at night only. By
morning it's warmed up and melted.

One reason I need depth is the stones vary in thickness, even though I
tried (I really tried hard) to keep the thickness variation down to a
minimum.

Another reason I 'want' depth is that there is the high spot at the left-
most side that is a ledge about two inches above the rest of the step. I
don't have to meet the two evenly. I 'could' have a small 1-inch step.

The problem is hard to describe so here's a picture of the small ledge
that has two flagstones in it. I was planning on bringing up all 20
flagstones to that same level to eliminate the ledge.
*http://www1.picturepush.com/photo/a/...mg/7487774.jpg

So that's why I need the extra couple of inches.

aggregate adds strength, a 1 inch step is just a trip hazard....

more necessary work for you, sorry

On Feb 4, 9:34*am, bob haller wrote:
On Feb 4, 9:13*am, Chuck Banshee wrote:





On Sat, 04 Feb 2012 00:43:47 -0600, Doug wrote:
is it safe to build up mortar 2" thick?
* Is this going to be outside with freezing temps?
I was wondering if it's better to use some kind of cement

I don't know either! *(I've never done any of this before.)

I 'assume' mortar is as strong as concrete (which is basically mortar
plus aggregate if I understand it correctly). Does the aggregate give
strength or does it just give it bulk for cost reasons?

As for freezing, it 'can' get to freezing out here - but rarely does. We
get a dusting of snow, for example, once every few years. Generally it
drops to freezing about 5 times a year, and always at night only. By
morning it's warmed up and melted.

One reason I need depth is the stones vary in thickness, even though I
tried (I really tried hard) to keep the thickness variation down to a
minimum.

Another reason I 'want' depth is that there is the high spot at the left-
most side that is a ledge about two inches above the rest of the step. I
don't have to meet the two evenly. I 'could' have a small 1-inch step.

The problem is hard to describe so here's a picture of the small ledge
that has two flagstones in it. I was planning on bringing up all 20
flagstones to that same level to eliminate the ledge.
*http://www1.picturepush.com/photo/a/...mg/7487774.jpg

So that's why I need the extra couple of inches.

aggregate adds strength, a 1 inch step is just a trip hazard....

more necessary work for you, sorry- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

ALL STEPS MUST! BE THE SAME HEIGTH/

if someone falls there your homeowners insurance can give you a hard
time, over dissimilar steps, raise your rates, and require a total
home inspection for safety issues. besides all that someone could get
hurt......

keep steps seperate from flagstone walk.

from the photo it appears you might be planning on covering the bottom
step with flagstone walk.

these will move and crack the flagstones at the step.

sorry for all the bad news

On Sat, 4 Feb 2012 04:25:40 +0000 (UTC), Chuck Banshee
wrote:

Left half:
http://www2.picturepush.com/photo/a/...mg/7485160.jpg

How thick is this footer?

You could cut it back to the stone, if it is not real thick.

before you set the stone

Will lawn turf be placed in this area?

On Sat, 04 Feb 2012 12:50:54 -0800, Oren wrote:
How thick is this footer?
You could cut it back to the stone, if it is not real thick.

I have no idea how deeply the footer goes into the ground.

For better or worse, I've already set the first two stones to the upper
level (which previously existed, at a 90degree right angle to the shelf
that I am tiling):
http://www1.picturepush.com/photo/a/...mg/7497624.jpg

My dilemma now is whether to raise the entire 20 tiles along the
shelf ... or ... to have a small 2" rise for the first two stones.

Will lawn turf be placed in this area?

That question brings up a point I had not mentioned prior.

Since I had dug down to the footer (which was 2 inches under the existing
lawn), I now have the problem of the lawn being two inches higher than
the shelf (if I don't raise the shelf).
http://www3.picturepush.com/photo/a/...mg/7497756.jpg

As much as I hate the thought of building a form and pouring a thin
(maybe less than 2") layer of concrete BEFORE adding the thick mortar to
accommodate the varying thickness sandstone ... it's looking like I have
to add a base to raise the tiles.

Drat.

For better or worse, here's the final result, set in concrete & mortar:
http://picturepush.com/public/7518004

On Wed, 8 Feb 2012 03:26:39 +0000 (UTC), Chuck Banshee
wrote:

For better or worse, here's the final result, set in concrete & mortar:
http://picturepush.com/public/7518004

Ya done good. (school of hard knocks)

Is the area now close to the height of the lawn turf? You tested the
sprinkler line for leaks? (form stake damage)

On Sat, 28 Jan 2012 15:35:41 -0500, gfretwell wrote:
The first step is doing the puzzle. You start dry laying the stone just
to figure out what the pattern is going to be.

You're right!

It took me almost the entire day (Saturday) to do this step!

It's bad enough that I mostly have small well broken pieces to deal with.

Luckily, both the steel diamond saw and the brown-material masonry saw
easily cut the flagstone (although the diamond saw seems to cut twice as
fast). Both dust up terribly!

Here is a picture of the stones very roughly laid out (without any
cutting).
http://www1.picturepush.com/photo/a/...mg/7448449.jpg

The puzzle is driving me CRAZY! (being ocd)

In addition ...
I'm not sure if you cut the last edge (the outside) edge last or if I cut
all the edges before setting them in concrete.

Either way, my plan is to cut them to fit today.

On Sun, 29 Jan 2012 21:09:48 +0000 (UTC), Chuck Banshee
wrote:

On Sat, 28 Jan 2012 15:35:41 -0500, gfretwell wrote:
The first step is doing the puzzle. You start dry laying the stone just
to figure out what the pattern is going to be.

You're right!

It took me almost the entire day (Saturday) to do this step!

It's bad enough that I mostly have small well broken pieces to deal with.

Luckily, both the steel diamond saw and the brown-material masonry saw
easily cut the flagstone (although the diamond saw seems to cut twice as
fast). Both dust up terribly!

Use a wet saw. The water keeps the dust down considerably. BTW, why are you
cutting them at all?

On Sun, 29 Jan 2012 19:06:55 -0500, zzzzzzzzzz wrote:
Use a wet saw. The water keeps the dust down considerably.
BTW, why are you cutting them at all?

While that's great advice, I don't have a helper to spray a hose on the
diamond saw, nor a wet saw apparatus - so - for this (my first concrete &
flagstone job) - it's going to have to be done dusty!

And, I understand why many are saying NOT to cut the stones, but this
picture should show why I must cut all the edges of the stones to match
the existing water featu
http://www4.picturepush.com/photo/a/...mg/7450637.jpg

BTW, I noticed water seeping out of the concrete of the water feature
(see the picture for details).

Is that water leak easily repairable while I'm working on this project?

On Mon, 30 Jan 2012 09:09:19 +0000 (UTC), Chuck Banshee
wrote:

On Sun, 29 Jan 2012 19:06:55 -0500, zzzzzzzzzz wrote:
Use a wet saw. The water keeps the dust down considerably.
BTW, why are you cutting them at all?

While that's great advice, I don't have a helper to spray a hose on the
diamond saw, nor a wet saw apparatus - so - for this (my first concrete &
flagstone job) - it's going to have to be done dusty!

When I cut concrete, I just propped the hose up between a couple of blocks to
flood the area I was cutting. I have a wet saw for this sort of work, though.
It needs a new motor, though. :-(

And, I understand why many are saying NOT to cut the stones, but this
picture should show why I must cut all the edges of the stones to match
the existing water featu
http://www4.picturepush.com/photo/a/...mg/7450637.jpg

I see, though be careful that the edges don't overhang. Even then, they'll
likely crack and pieces splinter off over time.

BTW, I noticed water seeping out of the concrete of the water feature
(see the picture for details).
Where is it coming from?

Is that water leak easily repairable while I'm working on this project?

On Mon, 30 Jan 2012 23:43:14 -0500, zzzzzzzzzz wrote:
BTW, I noticed water seeping out of the concrete of the water feature
(see the picture for details).
Where is it coming from?

The water is coming from the little fish pond behind the concrete wall.
I never noticed the seepage until now. I wonder if my digging disturbed
something.

On Sun, 29 Jan 2012 23:14:08 -0500, gfretwell wrote:

We always get the dry fit first.

Today I thought I'd finish the job (my first ever with concrete and my
first ever with flagstones) - but - alas - I only got six of about 18
flagstones cut. Sigh.

And, while laying them out uncut was certainly a good idea, it turns out
that I just couldn't fully process mentally the myriad permutations and
combinations inherent in that process. So, for example, three stones I
'thought' would fit perfectly, didn't fit.

So I had to remove them all anyway and start over (many times).
Here's a picture of just one permutation of the uncut flagstones:
http://www2.picturepush.com/photo/a/...mg/7450595.jpg

I also learned that there's a LOT of leaning over with BOTH hands on the
heavy stones and you can't get around that (because there is a wall in
front of you). The best you can do is put a towel on your head to protect
it as you lean against the wall and use both hands on the stone.

Here's a picture of the cut stones.
http://www3.picturepush.com/photo/a/...mg/7450606.jpg

If anyone knows whether that last (outside) edge cut is supposed to be
cut BEFORE or AFTER the flagstones are laid in concrete, it would be
helpful if you can let me know (before I make the final call on that).

Thanks for all your help!
- The hardest part is the dry jigsaw-puzzle and the cutting choices
- Given very few usable stones to work with doesn't help the matter
- Tomorrow, I hope, to finish the dry cutting - and then mortar them in!

Chuck Banshee wrote:

If anyone knows whether that last (outside) edge cut is supposed to be
cut BEFORE or AFTER the flagstones are laid in concrete, it would be
helpful if you can let me know (before I make the final call on that).

If you want the outside edge of the stones to be flush with the outside
vertical wall, you would be hard put to cut them after laying without
screwing up the wall.

If I were doing it and wanted that edge to be straight, I would...

1. Dry lay the stones. Note that the inside edge need not be chock-a-block
to the pond wall (IMO)

2. Draw a line on the underneath front edge of the stone, number the stones
sequentially on the top.

2a. If you think you'd have trouble getting the stones back where they
belong, mark the edges of the stones on the vertical walls.

3. Cut all the stones on the line you marked

4. Lay the stones aligning the front (outside) edge with the wall.



--

dadiOH
____________________________

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On Mon, 30 Jan 2012 07:16:31 -0500, dadiOH wrote:
If you want the outside edge of the stones to be flush with the outside
vertical wall, you would be hard put to cut them after laying without
screwing up the wall.

I'm confused.

I thank you for the description - but I don't understand as you 'seem'
to be talking about cutting the edge near the wall. Please allow me to
clarify (in case I explained it wrong).

The edge near the vertical wall is already cut. So are the side-to-side
edges (next to each block).

The edge I'm unsure about is the edge that eventually ends up in the
grass. That's what I'm calling the outside edge.

Here's a picture, taken just now at first light, that has the edge that I
was asking about pointed to.
http://www3.picturepush.com/photo/a/...mg/7452746.jpg

I am not sure if it's best to cut that pencil line (which cuts the length
of each stone to exactly fifteen 1/2 inches away from the wall) BEFORE or
AFTER I set the stones in cement & mortar???

(Note: Unless suggested otherwise, I plan on cutting that line AFTER I
lay the stones permanently. That way, the outside (cut) line will always
be straight. I plan on snapping a chalk line where the pencil marks now
are and then slicing it with the circular saw & diamond blade.)

But I've never done this ... so that's why I ask. It just seems too hard
to get that outside edge straight any other way.

Chuck Banshee wrote:
On Mon, 30 Jan 2012 07:16:31 -0500, dadiOH wrote:
If you want the outside edge of the stones to be flush with the
outside vertical wall, you would be hard put to cut them after
laying without screwing up the wall.

I'm confused.

I thank you for the description - but I don't understand as you 'seem'
to be talking about cutting the edge near the wall. Please allow me
to clarify (in case I explained it wrong).

The edge near the vertical wall is already cut. So are the
side-to-side edges (next to each block).

The edge I'm unsure about is the edge that eventually ends up in the
grass. That's what I'm calling the outside edge.

Here's a picture, taken just now at first light, that has the edge
that I was asking about pointed to.
http://www3.picturepush.com/photo/a/...mg/7452746.jpg

OK, in the link in the post to which I replied, I thought you were talking
about the stones on the ledge.
_____________________

I am not sure if it's best to cut that pencil line (which cuts the
length of each stone to exactly fifteen 1/2 inches away from the
wall) BEFORE or AFTER I set the stones in cement & mortar???

I'd still cut them before, seems easier to have them at a workable height.
All you have to do mark them is make a couple of spacers, lay a straight
edge aginst them on top of the dry laid stones and mark them. NP getting
the cut edges lined up nice and straight when you lay them, just butt the
cut edge to a straight edge spiked to the ground.

(Note: Unless suggested otherwise, I plan on cutting that line AFTER I
lay the stones permanently. That way, the outside (cut) line will
always be straight. I plan on snapping a chalk line where the pencil
marks now are and then slicing it with the circular saw & diamond
blade.)

I'm still unsure of how you plan to bed the stones you have on the ground.
If a compacted bed, cutting the stones after laying will disturb it unless
you control the depth of cut carefully. How do you plan to retain the
stones laterally?

--

dadiOH
____________________________

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LP/cassette and tips & tricks on this and that.
Get it at http://mysite.verizon.net/xico

Chuck Banshee wrote:
-snip-
I also learned that there's a LOT of leaning over with BOTH hands on the
heavy stones and you can't get around that (because there is a wall in
front of you). The best you can do is put a towel on your head to protect
it as you lean against the wall and use both hands on the stone.

There may be a special one of these for stone-- I know they are
indispensable [to me] when setting heavy blocks or carry bricks-
http://www.capcityequipment.com/mbmothers2305.html

Jim

wrote:

The quartzite granite we use is so hard it just laughs at a diamond
blade. You can get through it but it is painfully slow. The fiber
blades just smoke and wear away.


Just a technical FYI, quartzite is not granite; it is metamorphized
sandstone. For that matter, what most people call granite isn't granite;
"igneous rock" would be a better term.

--

dadiOH
____________________________

dadiOH's dandies v3.06...
....a help file of info about MP3s, recording from
LP/cassette and tips & tricks on this and that.
Get it at http://mysite.verizon.net/xico