Just had a new furnace installed and now looking at replacing the
water heater so I can eliminate the need for a chimney.

Current water heater is 50 US gal flue/chimney vent type. It's only 9
years old. It's rented at $14 a month. No idea what the efficiency
factor is.

Possible replacement is a 40 US gal power vent, rental, for $22
dollars a month or a 50 US gal for $23 a month. Efficiency factor I'm
told is .67

Government of Canada may pay me $190 to seal up my chimney as it a big
source of drafting but will not pay me to convert to power vent
heater. The only other reason to replace the water heater is to pick
a more suitable place where it does not have to rely on chimney
location. Water heater is presently in an annoying position.

Because my small town has very hard water, I'm keen to rent only and
not buy. Current family size is 2 adults plus baby with one
dishwasher load a day so a 40 US gallon might just suit our needs
until babies become teenagers

So if the rental cost is increased 8 bucks a month for me, what sort
of efficiency gains can I expect from a power vented water heater. Is
there any way to calculate if I can make back some of that 8 bucks a
month if we don't change hot water usage habits? Or is the only gain
getting $190 back for sealing up an unused chimney?


Rental terms are 7 years so that is an 8 dollar a month increase over
84 months.

On Jan 14, 11:09*pm, The Henchman wrote:
Just had a new furnace installed and now looking at replacing the
water heater so I can eliminate the need for a chimney.

Current water heater is 50 US gal flue/chimney vent type. *It's only 9
years old. *It's rented at $14 a month. No idea what the efficiency
factor is.

Possible replacement is a 40 US gal power vent, rental, for $22
dollars a month or a 50 US gal for $23 a month. Efficiency factor I'm
told is .67

Government of Canada may pay me $190 to seal up my chimney as it a big
source of drafting but will not pay me to convert to power vent
heater. *The only other reason to replace the water heater is to pick
a more suitable place where it does not have to rely on chimney
location. Water heater is presently in an annoying position.

Because my small town has very hard water, I'm keen to rent only and
not buy. *Current family size is 2 adults plus baby with one
dishwasher load a day so a 40 US gallon might just suit our needs
until babies become teenagers

So if the rental cost is increased 8 bucks a month for me, what sort
of efficiency gains can I expect from a power vented water heater. *Is
there any way to calculate if I can make back some of that 8 bucks a
month if we don't change hot water usage habits? *Or is the only gain
getting $190 back for sealing up an unused chimney?

Rental terms are 7 years so that is an 8 dollar a month increase over
84 months.

Assuming you have a gas, something to consider is that your existing
HW heater does not rely on electricity. This is a big plus in case you
have a power outage. If you get a power vent, now you are dependant on
the electric.

I have been hit with power outages a few occasions, most noteably when
Hurricane Irene hit and left my block with no power for 5 days.But at
least we had hot water.

Forgot to mention that these are natural gas water storage tank water
heaters, not electric.

..

Assuming you have a gas, something to consider is that your existing
HW heater does not rely on electricity. This is a big plus in case you
have a power outage. If you get a power vent, now you are dependant on
the electric.

I have been hit with power outages a few occasions, most noteably when
Hurricane Irene hit and left my block with no power for 5 days.But at
least we had hot water.


I'm near Toronto and the three most common causes of electricy loss
are Freezing rain Summer blackouts from lack of electrical supply and
a car.truck hitting an electrical pole on the hiway.

We have a gas stove that can be lit and fuction without electricty if
the need for hot water should arise. We do lose power from time to
time, maybe 3 times a year here.

So yes I have considred the loss of electricty as a factor in deciding
if I should power vent however can can heat water on a gas stove if
need be.

On Sat, 14 Jan 2012 23:09:57 -0500, The Henchman wrote:

Just had a new furnace installed and now looking at replacing the
water heater so I can eliminate the need for a chimney.

Current water heater is 50 US gal flue/chimney vent type. It's only 9
years old. It's rented at $14 a month. No idea what the efficiency
factor is.


14 x 84 = $1176.

Possible replacement is a 40 US gal power vent, rental, for $22
dollars a month or a 50 US gal for $23 a month. Efficiency factor I'm
told is .67


22 x 84 = $1848




Because my small town has very hard water, I'm keen to rent only and
not buy.

Rental terms are 7 years so that is an 8 dollar a month increase over
84 months.

8 x 84 = $672

A direct vent can be bought for about $850US. If you have it
installed, maybe another $200 sot that eats up the rebate.

I'm amazed that you are worried about the cost saving and payback, yet
you **** away a thousand dollars by renting. If you water has rock in
it, it will probably outlast the 7 year rental costs and you put 1000
bucks in your pocket. Use that money to buy a water softener if that
is your concern.

I'm thinking that I should install your heater and let you rent from
me. Great profit to be had!

The Henchman wrote:
Just had a new furnace installed and now looking at replacing the
water heater so I can eliminate the need for a chimney.

Current water heater is 50 US gal flue/chimney vent type. It's only 9
years old. It's rented at $14 a month. No idea what the efficiency
factor is.

Possible replacement is a 40 US gal power vent, rental, for $22
dollars a month or a 50 US gal for $23 a month. Efficiency factor I'm
told is .67

Government of Canada may pay me $190 to seal up my chimney as it a big
source of drafting but will not pay me to convert to power vent
heater. The only other reason to replace the water heater is to pick
a more suitable place where it does not have to rely on chimney
location. Water heater is presently in an annoying position.

Because my small town has very hard water, I'm keen to rent only and
not buy. Current family size is 2 adults plus baby with one
dishwasher load a day so a 40 US gallon might just suit our needs
until babies become teenagers

So if the rental cost is increased 8 bucks a month for me, what sort
of efficiency gains can I expect from a power vented water heater. Is
there any way to calculate if I can make back some of that 8 bucks a
month if we don't change hot water usage habits? Or is the only gain
getting $190 back for sealing up an unused chimney?


Rental terms are 7 years so that is an 8 dollar a month increase over
84 months.

Rent? A water heater? That's crazy talk!

$22 x 12 = $264. One year's rental pays for a new water heater - or pretty
close!

Two year's rental pays for a water heater AND a service contract.

On 1/14/2012 11:09 PM, The Henchman wrote:
Just had a new furnace installed and now looking at replacing the
water heater so I can eliminate the need for a chimney.

Current water heater is 50 US gal flue/chimney vent type. It's only 9
years old. It's rented at $14 a month. No idea what the efficiency
factor is.

Possible replacement is a 40 US gal power vent, rental, for $22
dollars a month or a 50 US gal for $23 a month. Efficiency factor I'm
told is .67

Government of Canada may pay me $190 to seal up my chimney as it a big
source of drafting but will not pay me to convert to power vent
heater. The only other reason to replace the water heater is to pick
a more suitable place where it does not have to rely on chimney
location. Water heater is presently in an annoying position.

Because my small town has very hard water, I'm keen to rent only and
not buy. Current family size is 2 adults plus baby with one
dishwasher load a day so a 40 US gallon might just suit our needs
until babies become teenagers

So if the rental cost is increased 8 bucks a month for me, what sort
of efficiency gains can I expect from a power vented water heater. Is
there any way to calculate if I can make back some of that 8 bucks a
month if we don't change hot water usage habits? Or is the only gain
getting $190 back for sealing up an unused chimney?


Rental terms are 7 years so that is an 8 dollar a month increase over
84 months.


$22 x 12 x 7 = $1848 = one expensive hot water heater, hard water or no.
What is the advantage here?

John

On Jan 15, 6:36*am, "HeyBub" wrote:
The Henchman wrote:
Just had a new furnace installed and now looking at replacing the
water heater so I can eliminate the need for a chimney.

Current water heater is 50 US gal flue/chimney vent type. *It's only 9
years old. *It's rented at $14 a month. No idea what the efficiency
factor is.

Possible replacement is a 40 US gal power vent, rental, for $22
dollars a month or a 50 US gal for $23 a month. Efficiency factor I'm
told is .67

Government of Canada may pay me $190 to seal up my chimney as it a big
source of drafting but will not pay me to convert to power vent
heater. *The only other reason to replace the water heater is to pick
a more suitable place where it does not have to rely on chimney
location. Water heater is presently in an annoying position.

Because my small town has very hard water, I'm keen to rent only and
not buy. *Current family size is 2 adults plus baby with one
dishwasher load a day so a 40 US gallon might just suit our needs
until babies become teenagers

So if the rental cost is increased 8 bucks a month for me, what sort
of efficiency gains can I expect from a power vented water heater. *Is
there any way to calculate if I can make back some of that 8 bucks a
month if we don't change hot water usage habits? *Or is the only gain
getting $190 back for sealing up an unused chimney?

Rental terms are 7 years so that is an 8 dollar a month increase over
84 months.

Rent? A water heater? That's crazy talk!

$22 x 12 = $264. One year's rental pays for a new water heater - or pretty
close!

Two year's rental pays for a water heater AND a service contract.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

For the bucks the OP is spending he could buy a Vertex high efficency
tank and have it installed. efficeny in the 90% range plus endless hot
water

On Jan 14, 10:09*pm, The Henchman wrote:
Just had a new furnace installed and now looking at replacing the
water heater so I can eliminate the need for a chimney.

Current water heater is 50 US gal flue/chimney vent type. *It's only 9
years old. *It's rented at $14 a month. No idea what the efficiency
factor is.

Possible replacement is a 40 US gal power vent, rental, for $22
dollars a month or a 50 US gal for $23 a month. Efficiency factor I'm
told is .67

Government of Canada may pay me $190 to seal up my chimney as it a big
source of drafting but will not pay me to convert to power vent
heater. *The only other reason to replace the water heater is to pick
a more suitable place where it does not have to rely on chimney
location. Water heater is presently in an annoying position.

Because my small town has very hard water, I'm keen to rent only and
not buy. *Current family size is 2 adults plus baby with one
dishwasher load a day so a 40 US gallon might just suit our needs
until babies become teenagers

So if the rental cost is increased 8 bucks a month for me, what sort
of efficiency gains can I expect from a power vented water heater. *Is
there any way to calculate if I can make back some of that 8 bucks a
month if we don't change hot water usage habits? *Or is the only gain
getting $190 back for sealing up an unused chimney?

Rental terms are 7 years so that is an 8 dollar a month increase over
84 months.

How hard is your water, how long do neighbors heaters last, renting as
I see It
Is a waste of money. You present tank may be 45-50 EF but now you add
the
Cost of running a fan. Buying a tankless or condensing tank for the
money you will
Waste renting would save . I don't know if you will save anything now,
does the EF rating
Include electricity, and at what cost per kwh?

On 1/14/2012 11:09 PM, The Henchman wrote:
Just had a new furnace installed and now looking at replacing the
water heater so I can eliminate the need for a chimney.

Current water heater is 50 US gal flue/chimney vent type. It's only 9
years old. It's rented at $14 a month. No idea what the efficiency
factor is.

Possible replacement is a 40 US gal power vent, rental, for $22
dollars a month or a 50 US gal for $23 a month. Efficiency factor I'm
told is .67

Government of Canada may pay me $190 to seal up my chimney as it a big
source of drafting but will not pay me to convert to power vent
heater. The only other reason to replace the water heater is to pick
a more suitable place where it does not have to rely on chimney
location. Water heater is presently in an annoying position.

Because my small town has very hard water, I'm keen to rent only and
not buy. Current family size is 2 adults plus baby with one
dishwasher load a day so a 40 US gallon might just suit our needs
until babies become teenagers

So if the rental cost is increased 8 bucks a month for me, what sort
of efficiency gains can I expect from a power vented water heater. Is
there any way to calculate if I can make back some of that 8 bucks a
month if we don't change hot water usage habits? Or is the only gain
getting $190 back for sealing up an unused chimney?


Rental terms are 7 years so that is an 8 dollar a month increase over
84 months.

I would think that electricity would be relatively cheap in your area.
Why not buy an electric water heater and a water softener, and save the
rest of your water using appliances and your pipes.

On Jan 15, 8:25*am, ransley wrote:
On Jan 14, 10:09*pm, The Henchman wrote:





Just had a new furnace installed and now looking at replacing the
water heater so I can eliminate the need for a chimney.

Current water heater is 50 US gal flue/chimney vent type. *It's only 9
years old. *It's rented at $14 a month. No idea what the efficiency
factor is.

Possible replacement is a 40 US gal power vent, rental, for $22
dollars a month or a 50 US gal for $23 a month. Efficiency factor I'm
told is .67

Government of Canada may pay me $190 to seal up my chimney as it a big
source of drafting but will not pay me to convert to power vent
heater. *The only other reason to replace the water heater is to pick
a more suitable place where it does not have to rely on chimney
location. Water heater is presently in an annoying position.

Because my small town has very hard water, I'm keen to rent only and
not buy. *Current family size is 2 adults plus baby with one
dishwasher load a day so a 40 US gallon might just suit our needs
until babies become teenagers

So if the rental cost is increased 8 bucks a month for me, what sort
of efficiency gains can I expect from a power vented water heater. *Is
there any way to calculate if I can make back some of that 8 bucks a
month if we don't change hot water usage habits? *Or is the only gain
getting $190 back for sealing up an unused chimney?

Rental terms are 7 years so that is an 8 dollar a month increase over
84 months.

How hard is your water, how long do neighbors heaters last, renting as
I see It
Is a waste of money. You present tank may be 45-50 EF but now you add
the
Cost of running a fan. Buying a tankless or condensing tank for the
money you will
Waste renting would save . I don't know if you will save anything now,
does the EF rating
Include electricity, and at what cost per kwh?- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I just went through a similar evaluation when I replaced
my furnace with a high efficiency one and was left with
an orphaned water heater on a chimney sized for the
old furnace plus the water heater. I looked at the
cost/efficiency tradeoffs and came to conclusion that
what made the most sense was to just add a 4"
chimney liner for the existing water heater. I picked
up an aluminum one for about $100.

I'd question how much draft air is being wasted if
you install a liner. When my water heater isn't fired
up, I have no draft that you can feel with your hand
at the hood. Some air is probably moving up, but
it's also located in an unheated basement. If
yours is located in living space, then I guess it
becomes more important. But by gettting rid of
the old furnace, you've already greatly reduced the
airflow up that chimney. With just a water heater
it's going to be moving a fraction of the air.

You would save some money by the power vent being
more efficient, but IMO with typical usage and gas prices,
it isn't going to make up $8 a month. You can get some
feel for the savings by looking at the annual energy
usage numbers for conventional vs power vent.

Unless water heaters fail in 4 years with your water,
renting seems like a very bad idea and will cost you
a lot more than any energy differences. In 4 years,
you've spent $1000 which is in the ballpark for
a power vent water heater. Less if you can install
it yourself.

Another factor with power vent is that they make
noise from the blower and it can be annoying
depending on where it's located. And they have
more parts to fail.

Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On Sat, 14 Jan 2012 23:09:57 -0500, The wrote:

Just had a new furnace installed and now looking at replacing the
water heater so I can eliminate the need for a chimney.

Current water heater is 50 US gal flue/chimney vent type. It's only 9
years old. It's rented at $14 a month. No idea what the efficiency
factor is.


14 x 84 = $1176.

Possible replacement is a 40 US gal power vent, rental, for $22
dollars a month or a 50 US gal for $23 a month. Efficiency factor I'm
told is .67


22 x 84 = $1848




Because my small town has very hard water, I'm keen to rent only and
not buy.

Rental terms are 7 years so that is an 8 dollar a month increase over
84 months.

8 x 84 = $672

A direct vent can be bought for about $850US. If you have it
installed, maybe another $200 sot that eats up the rebate.

I'm amazed that you are worried about the cost saving and payback, yet
you **** away a thousand dollars by renting. If you water has rock in
it, it will probably outlast the 7 year rental costs and you put 1000
bucks in your pocket. Use that money to buy a water softener if that
is your concern.

I'm thinking that I should install your heater and let you rent from
me. Great profit to be had!

Hmmmm,
Very mind boggling!!!!!!

On Sat, 14 Jan 2012 23:09:57 -0500, The Henchman wrote:

Just had a new furnace installed and now looking at replacing the
water heater so I can eliminate the need for a chimney.

Current water heater is 50 US gal flue/chimney vent type. It's only 9
years old. It's rented at $14 a month. No idea what the efficiency
factor is.

Possible replacement is a 40 US gal power vent, rental, for $22
dollars a month or a 50 US gal for $23 a month. Efficiency factor I'm
told is .67

Government of Canada may pay me $190 to seal up my chimney as it a big
source of drafting but will not pay me to convert to power vent
heater. The only other reason to replace the water heater is to pick
a more suitable place where it does not have to rely on chimney
location. Water heater is presently in an annoying position.

Because my small town has very hard water, I'm keen to rent only and
not buy. Current family size is 2 adults plus baby with one
dishwasher load a day so a 40 US gallon might just suit our needs
until babies become teenagers

So if the rental cost is increased 8 bucks a month for me, what sort
of efficiency gains can I expect from a power vented water heater. Is
there any way to calculate if I can make back some of that 8 bucks a
month if we don't change hot water usage habits? Or is the only gain
getting $190 back for sealing up an unused chimney?


Rental terms are 7 years so that is an 8 dollar a month increase over
84 months.
The efficiency of the water heater will increase marginally. Don't
count on any large savings.

$22 per month is $1848 over the 7 year life of the lease. That will
install at least 2 GOOD power vented water heaters - and your rental
is already 9 years old - so renting a gas water heater doesn't make
ANY sense. Electric water heaters are more sensitive to hard water,
so might make more sense to rent - but only cost half as much - so the
case for renting THEM isn't very solid either.

Basically the only gain you can count on for changing to a power vent
heater is the grant you'll get for sealing the chimney.

Your cost, with a rental heater, to get that $190 is $672..

I've done the math.
You make the decision.

On Sun, 15 Jan 2012 05:25:52 -0800 (PST), ransley
wrote:

On Jan 14, 10:09Â*pm, The Henchman wrote:
Just had a new furnace installed and now looking at replacing the
water heater so I can eliminate the need for a chimney.

Current water heater is 50 US gal flue/chimney vent type. Â*It's only 9
years old. Â*It's rented at $14 a month. No idea what the efficiency
factor is.

Possible replacement is a 40 US gal power vent, rental, for $22
dollars a month or a 50 US gal for $23 a month. Efficiency factor I'm
told is .67

Government of Canada may pay me $190 to seal up my chimney as it a big
source of drafting but will not pay me to convert to power vent
heater. Â*The only other reason to replace the water heater is to pick
a more suitable place where it does not have to rely on chimney
location. Water heater is presently in an annoying position.

Because my small town has very hard water, I'm keen to rent only and
not buy. Â*Current family size is 2 adults plus baby with one
dishwasher load a day so a 40 US gallon might just suit our needs
until babies become teenagers

So if the rental cost is increased 8 bucks a month for me, what sort
of efficiency gains can I expect from a power vented water heater. Â*Is
there any way to calculate if I can make back some of that 8 bucks a
month if we don't change hot water usage habits? Â*Or is the only gain
getting $190 back for sealing up an unused chimney?

Rental terms are 7 years so that is an 8 dollar a month increase over
84 months.

How hard is your water, how long do neighbors heaters last, renting as
I see It
Is a waste of money. You present tank may be 45-50 EF but now you add
the
Cost of running a fan. Buying a tankless or condensing tank for the
money you will
Waste renting would save . I don't know if you will save anything now,
does the EF rating
Include electricity, and at what cost per kwh?


DON'T waste your money on a tankless.
Cost more to buy.
May need larger gas supply
Maintenance, particularly in hard water areas in ONEROUS. and they
don't last.
I know plumbers who will install them, but will NEVER recommend or
sell one.
They've gotten better over the years, you say???
It'll take a LONG time before they are good enough to be worth the
trouble.

On Sun, 15 Jan 2012 08:46:21 -0500, RBM wrote:

On 1/14/2012 11:09 PM, The Henchman wrote:
Just had a new furnace installed and now looking at replacing the
water heater so I can eliminate the need for a chimney.

Current water heater is 50 US gal flue/chimney vent type. It's only 9
years old. It's rented at $14 a month. No idea what the efficiency
factor is.

Possible replacement is a 40 US gal power vent, rental, for $22
dollars a month or a 50 US gal for $23 a month. Efficiency factor I'm
told is .67

Government of Canada may pay me $190 to seal up my chimney as it a big
source of drafting but will not pay me to convert to power vent
heater. The only other reason to replace the water heater is to pick
a more suitable place where it does not have to rely on chimney
location. Water heater is presently in an annoying position.

Because my small town has very hard water, I'm keen to rent only and
not buy. Current family size is 2 adults plus baby with one
dishwasher load a day so a 40 US gallon might just suit our needs
until babies become teenagers

So if the rental cost is increased 8 bucks a month for me, what sort
of efficiency gains can I expect from a power vented water heater. Is
there any way to calculate if I can make back some of that 8 bucks a
month if we don't change hot water usage habits? Or is the only gain
getting $190 back for sealing up an unused chimney?


Rental terms are 7 years so that is an 8 dollar a month increase over
84 months.

I would think that electricity would be relatively cheap in your area.
Why not buy an electric water heater and a water softener, and save the
rest of your water using appliances and your pipes.

Ontario hydro and cheap in the same sentance????
Nope. But a water softener could be a great investment.

Near HogTown - hard water - What small town???