I had my A.C./heat pump serviced today. The tech is suggesting adding
something called a "hard start" to the compressor starting circut which
supposedly reduces wear on the motor. And costs almost $200.

I have never heard of this. Have any of you and is it a good idea?

--
Rich Greenberg Sarasota, FL, USA richgr atsign panix.com + 1 941 378 2097
Eastern time. N6LRT I speak for myself & my dogs only. VM'er since CP-67
Canines: Val, Red, Shasta, Zero & Casey (At the bridge) Owner:Chinook-L
Canines: Red & Cinnar (Siberians) Retired at the beach Asst Owner:Sibernet-L

On 12/8/2011 1:44 PM, Rich Greenberg wrote:
I had my A.C./heat pump serviced today. The tech is suggesting adding
something called a "hard start" to the compressor starting circut which
supposedly reduces wear on the motor. And costs almost $200.

I have never heard of this. Have any of you and is it a good idea?


http://lmgtfy.com/?q=ac+hard+start

In article ,
chaniarts wrote:
On 12/8/2011 1:44 PM, Rich Greenberg wrote:
I had my A.C./heat pump serviced today. The tech is suggesting adding
something called a "hard start" to the compressor starting circut which
supposedly reduces wear on the motor. And costs almost $200.

I have never heard of this. Have any of you and is it a good idea?


http://lmgtfy.com/?q=ac+hard+start

Thanks for this link, which led me to Google which led me to suppliers.

It seems that the hard start is a good idea, but they are charging a lot
for them. Only $40-50 if I install it myself.

--
Rich Greenberg Sarasota, FL, USA richgr atsign panix.com + 1 941 378 2097
Eastern time. N6LRT I speak for myself & my dogs only. VM'er since CP-67
Canines: Val, Red, Shasta, Zero & Casey (At the bridge) Owner:Chinook-L
Canines: Red & Cinnar (Siberians) Retired at the beach Asst Owner:Sibernet-L

On 12/8/2011 2:44 PM, Rich Greenberg wrote:
I had my A.C./heat pump serviced today. The tech is suggesting adding
something called a "hard start" to the compressor starting circut which
supposedly reduces wear on the motor. And costs almost $200.

I have never heard of this. Have any of you and is it a good idea?


It's an extra capacitor and start relay. $200.00 is 2 to 4 times what
I would charge if I added it on during the same call. ^_^

TDD

I've heard of hard start kits. I use them when the outdoor unit compressor
won't start. If yours works, save your money. As a couple other techs have
said, the guy is a bit over priced, too. I'd gently pass, on this one. And
look for another tech.

--

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

"Rich Greenberg" wrote in message
...
I had my A.C./heat pump serviced today. The tech is suggesting adding
something called a "hard start" to the compressor starting circut which
supposedly reduces wear on the motor. And costs almost $200.

I have never heard of this. Have any of you and is it a good idea?

--
Rich Greenberg Sarasota, FL, USA richgr atsign panix.com + 1 941 378 2097
Eastern time. N6LRT I speak for myself & my dogs only. VM'er since
CP-67
Canines: Val, Red, Shasta, Zero & Casey (At the bridge)
Owner:Chinook-L
Canines: Red & Cinnar (Siberians) Retired at the beach Asst
Owner:Sibernet-L

"Rich Greenberg" wrote in message
I had my A.C./heat pump serviced today. The tech is suggesting
adding
something called a "hard start" to the compressor starting circut
which
supposedly reduces wear on the motor. And costs almost $200.

I have never heard of this. Have any of you and is it a good idea?


Let's see... The AC manufacturer has electrical engineers designing
their equipment. And this equipment has a "name plate" with a
recommended circuit to power that unit. I should think that would work
if the appropriate circuit and wire gauge is used?

And this person thinks the manufacturer of the AC equipment did not
design things right? And he knows more than that manufacturer? What
are his qualifications?

Might want to ask on alt.engineering.electrical and get an expert
opinion. Or better yet, call the AC manufacturer engineering
department and see what they have to say...

On 12/9/2011 12:52 AM, Bill wrote:
"Rich Greenberg" wrote in message
I had my A.C./heat pump serviced today. The tech is suggesting adding
something called a "hard start" to the compressor starting circut which
supposedly reduces wear on the motor. And costs almost $200.

I have never heard of this. Have any of you and is it a good idea?


Let's see... The AC manufacturer has electrical engineers designing
their equipment. And this equipment has a "name plate" with a
recommended circuit to power that unit. I should think that would work
if the appropriate circuit and wire gauge is used?

And this person thinks the manufacturer of the AC equipment did not
design things right? And he knows more than that manufacturer? What are
his qualifications?

Might want to ask on alt.engineering.electrical and get an expert
opinion. Or better yet, call the AC manufacturer engineering department
and see what they have to say...


A little clue since one of the legal things I do for money is servicing
HVAC and refrigeration equipment. If you look at the wiring diagram for
most AC condensing units, it's usually inside the cover over the
contactor, you will see information on connections for an optional start
assist device or kit from the manufacturer. Some units are shipped from
the factory with a "hard start kit" or device already installed but most
are not. There is another option not always installed by the factory
called an "anti-short cycle timer" which keeps the compressor from
trying to start under load after shutting down until the system
pressures have equalized. These items along with high and low pressure
cutout switches and condenser fan cycle switches AKA head pressure
controls are usually part of the premium priced units. All the extra
bells and whistles are left off of the less expensive builder or
contractor grade systems. The extra parts are not that expensive but to
a manufacturer building a million systems, ten, twenty or fifty dollars
per system can add up to a great deal of money where the bean counters
are watching every penny of production cost in order to compete with the
next manufacturer. The start assist devices are usually unnecessary
unless the customer's AC unit is in an area where the power supplied by
the utility may fluctuate enough to cause problems for compressors that
are starting under load. An honest service tech recommending a "hard
start" or "kick-start" device is not at all unusual and depends on the
condition and age of the compressor and quality of the utility power.

TDD

On Dec 9, 4:35*am, The Daring Dufas
wrote:
On 12/9/2011 12:52 AM, Bill wrote:





"Rich Greenberg" wrote in message
I had my A.C./heat pump serviced today. The tech is suggesting adding
something called a "hard start" to the compressor starting circut which
supposedly reduces wear on the motor. And costs almost $200.

I have never heard of this. Have any of you and is it a good idea?

Let's see... The AC manufacturer has electrical engineers designing
their equipment. And this equipment has a "name plate" with a
recommended circuit to power that unit. I should think that would work
if the appropriate circuit and wire gauge is used?

And this person thinks the manufacturer of the AC equipment did not
design things right? And he knows more than that manufacturer? What are
his qualifications?

Might want to ask on alt.engineering.electrical and get an expert
opinion. Or better yet, call the AC manufacturer engineering department
and see what they have to say...

A little clue since one of the legal things I do for money is servicing
HVAC and refrigeration equipment. If you look at the wiring diagram for
most AC condensing units, it's usually inside the cover over the
contactor, you will see information on connections for an optional start
assist device or kit from the manufacturer. Some units are shipped from
the factory with a "hard start kit" or device already installed but most
are not. There is another option not always installed by the factory
called an "anti-short cycle timer" which keeps the compressor from
trying to start under load after shutting down until the system
pressures have equalized. These items along with high and low pressure
cutout switches and condenser fan cycle switches AKA head pressure
controls are usually part of the premium priced units. All the extra
bells and whistles are left off of the less expensive builder or
contractor grade systems. The extra parts are not that expensive but to
a manufacturer building a million systems, ten, twenty or fifty dollars
per system can add up to a great deal of money where the bean counters
are watching every penny of production cost in order to compete with the
next manufacturer. The start assist devices are usually unnecessary
unless the customer's AC unit is in an area where the power supplied by
the utility may fluctuate enough to cause problems for compressors that
are starting under load. An honest service tech recommending a "hard
start" or "kick-start" device is not at all unusual and depends on the
condition and age of the compressor and quality of the utility power.

TDD- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I would not put a hard start cap on a unit that was working
fine. If it's tripping the breaker sometimes when trying to
start, then after making sure all else is in order I would put
one on. That's what I did with my old unit when it was 10 years old
and got another 16 years out of it.

On 12/9/2011 6:48 AM, wrote:
On Dec 9, 4:35 am, The Daring
wrote:
On 12/9/2011 12:52 AM, Bill wrote:





"Rich Greenberg" wrote in message
I had my A.C./heat pump serviced today. The tech is suggesting adding
something called a "hard start" to the compressor starting circut which
supposedly reduces wear on the motor. And costs almost $200.

I have never heard of this. Have any of you and is it a good idea?

Let's see... The AC manufacturer has electrical engineers designing
their equipment. And this equipment has a "name plate" with a
recommended circuit to power that unit. I should think that would work
if the appropriate circuit and wire gauge is used?

And this person thinks the manufacturer of the AC equipment did not
design things right? And he knows more than that manufacturer? What are
his qualifications?

Might want to ask on alt.engineering.electrical and get an expert
opinion. Or better yet, call the AC manufacturer engineering department
and see what they have to say...

A little clue since one of the legal things I do for money is servicing
HVAC and refrigeration equipment. If you look at the wiring diagram for
most AC condensing units, it's usually inside the cover over the
contactor, you will see information on connections for an optional start
assist device or kit from the manufacturer. Some units are shipped from
the factory with a "hard start kit" or device already installed but most
are not. There is another option not always installed by the factory
called an "anti-short cycle timer" which keeps the compressor from
trying to start under load after shutting down until the system
pressures have equalized. These items along with high and low pressure
cutout switches and condenser fan cycle switches AKA head pressure
controls are usually part of the premium priced units. All the extra
bells and whistles are left off of the less expensive builder or
contractor grade systems. The extra parts are not that expensive but to
a manufacturer building a million systems, ten, twenty or fifty dollars
per system can add up to a great deal of money where the bean counters
are watching every penny of production cost in order to compete with the
next manufacturer. The start assist devices are usually unnecessary
unless the customer's AC unit is in an area where the power supplied by
the utility may fluctuate enough to cause problems for compressors that
are starting under load. An honest service tech recommending a "hard
start" or "kick-start" device is not at all unusual and depends on the
condition and age of the compressor and quality of the utility power.

TDD- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I would not put a hard start cap on a unit that was working
fine. If it's tripping the breaker sometimes when trying to
start, then after making sure all else is in order I would put
one on. That's what I did with my old unit when it was 10 years old
and got another 16 years out of it.

I have seen a "Kick Start" device break the connecting rod in a
reciprocating AC compressor before. One of the first items I will
always recommend a customer let me install is an anti-short cycle
timer. The timer prevents the compressor from restarting before
system pressures can equalize allowing the compressor to start under
the least load. The time delay is often one of the things that can
be programmed in most digital thermostats and I always check for it.
If you wonder why it's important it's because whenever the power blinks
or someone plays with a mechanical thermostat, the timer prevents the
compressor from being slammed on and off which really puts a lot of
stress on a compressor both electrically and mechanically.

TDD

..

On Fri, 9 Dec 2011 04:48:49 -0800 (PST), "
wrote:

On Dec 9, 4:35Â*am, The Daring Dufas
wrote:
On 12/9/2011 12:52 AM, Bill wrote:





"Rich Greenberg" wrote in message
I had my A.C./heat pump serviced today. The tech is suggesting adding
something called a "hard start" to the compressor starting circut which
supposedly reduces wear on the motor. And costs almost $200.

I have never heard of this. Have any of you and is it a good idea?

Let's see... The AC manufacturer has electrical engineers designing
their equipment. And this equipment has a "name plate" with a
recommended circuit to power that unit. I should think that would work
if the appropriate circuit and wire gauge is used?

And this person thinks the manufacturer of the AC equipment did not
design things right? And he knows more than that manufacturer? What are
his qualifications?

Might want to ask on alt.engineering.electrical and get an expert
opinion. Or better yet, call the AC manufacturer engineering department
and see what they have to say...

A little clue since one of the legal things I do for money is servicing
HVAC and refrigeration equipment. If you look at the wiring diagram for
most AC condensing units, it's usually inside the cover over the
contactor, you will see information on connections for an optional start
assist device or kit from the manufacturer. Some units are shipped from
the factory with a "hard start kit" or device already installed but most
are not. There is another option not always installed by the factory
called an "anti-short cycle timer" which keeps the compressor from
trying to start under load after shutting down until the system
pressures have equalized. These items along with high and low pressure
cutout switches and condenser fan cycle switches AKA head pressure
controls are usually part of the premium priced units. All the extra
bells and whistles are left off of the less expensive builder or
contractor grade systems. The extra parts are not that expensive but to
a manufacturer building a million systems, ten, twenty or fifty dollars
per system can add up to a great deal of money where the bean counters
are watching every penny of production cost in order to compete with the
next manufacturer. The start assist devices are usually unnecessary
unless the customer's AC unit is in an area where the power supplied by
the utility may fluctuate enough to cause problems for compressors that
are starting under load. An honest service tech recommending a "hard
start" or "kick-start" device is not at all unusual and depends on the
condition and age of the compressor and quality of the utility power.

TDD- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I would not put a hard start cap on a unit that was working
fine. If it's tripping the breaker sometimes when trying to
start, then after making sure all else is in order I would put
one on. That's what I did with my old unit when it was 10 years old
and got another 16 years out of it.


See: http://www.supco.com/images/pdfs/AC%...%20Booklet.pdf
for all the information you need on hard start devices from the
company that pioneered hard start kits.

..

On Dec 8, 2:44*pm, (Rich Greenberg) wrote:
I had my A.C./heat pump serviced today. *The tech is suggesting adding
something called a "hard start" to the compressor starting circut which
supposedly reduces wear on the motor. *And costs almost $200.

I have never heard of this. *Have any of you and is it a good idea?

--
Rich Greenberg *Sarasota, FL, USA richgr atsign panix.com *+ 1 941 378 2097begin_of_the_skype_highlighting************+ 1 941 378 2097
Eastern time. *N6LRT *I speak for myself & my dogs only. * *VM'er since CP-67
Canines: Val, Red, Shasta, Zero & Casey (At the bridge) * * * *Owner:Chinook-L
Canines: Red & Cinnar (Siberians) *Retired at the beach *Asst Owner:Sibernet-L

A hard start kit for the compressor is ONLY needed if the compressor
doesnt come online right away when a call for cooling occurs by the
thermostat . It is useful for tight old compressors or for low
voltage conditions and/or for a/c systems that dont equalize the
internal pressure quick enough before the next cooling cycle occurs.
$200 installed is a tad on the high side unless hes going to be
servicing the whole unit at the same time.

Hello, I have a Rheem heat pump, model Rpnl-043jaz. The lights in my house all flicker every time it goes on....Will the hard start kit resolve this problem?

On Wednesday, June 8, 2016 at 9:10:01 PM UTC-5, wrote:
Hello, I have a Rheem heat pump, model Rpnl-043jaz. The lights in my house all flicker every time it goes on....Will the hard start kit resolve this problem?

You could have too small a wire supplying power to your AC or there could be a bad connection. The only way to check it is to measure the current and voltage being supplied to your AC unit when it starts and while running. If you have an electronic thermostat, check the instructions or Google information on it and see if you can program it for a time delay known as "Anti Short Cycle". This will keep the compressor from starting until the pressure equalizes in the system and the compressor will draw the least amount of current when it starts. If you have an old mechanical thermostat, a timer can be installed in the control housing outside in the condensing unit for your AC system. If you're not handy with electrical devices, call a trustworthy HVAC guy to check out your AC unit. ^_^

[8~{} Uncle Cool Monster

On 6/8/2016 7:30 PM, Uncle Monster wrote:
On Wednesday, June 8, 2016 at 9:10:01 PM UTC-5, wrote:
Hello, I have a Rheem heat pump, model Rpnl-043jaz. The lights in my house all flicker every time it goes on....Will the hard start kit resolve this problem?

You could have too small a wire supplying power to your AC or there could be a bad connection. The only way to check it is to measure the current and voltage being supplied to your AC unit when it starts and while running. If you have an electronic thermostat, check the instructions or Google information on it and see if you can program it for a time delay known as "Anti Short Cycle". This will keep the compressor from starting until the pressure equalizes in the system and the compressor will draw the least amount of current when it starts. If you have an old mechanical thermostat, a timer can be installed in the control housing outside in the condensing unit for your AC system. If you're not handy with electrical devices, call a trustworthy HVAC guy to check out your AC unit. ^_^

[8~{} Uncle Cool Monster


Does Uncle Monster use AC or DC on his anal vibrator?

On 6/8/2016 10:09 PM, wrote:
Hello, I have a Rheem heat pump, model Rpnl-043jaz. The lights in my house all flicker every time it goes on....Will the hard start kit resolve this problem?


Can't hurt. How much is the AC company charging?

--
..
Christopher A. Young
learn more about Jesus
.. www.lds.org
..
..

wrote in message
...

Hello, I have a Rheem heat pump, model Rpnl-043jaz. The lights in my house
all flicker every time it goes on....Will the hard start kit resolve this
problem?


****Your question is will the hard start kit help any, Well I will say with
experience that I had it will not hurt any. However must likely your service
is undersize, you could have line to long between your property and
transformer that is someplace on the poll. Usually what you are describing
the supply line is not large enough to give amount of current at startup,
remember startup could be four (4) times running condition, so start up kit
could help but eliminate €œNO€�

On Wed, 8 Jun 2016 19:09:57 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

Hello, I have a Rheem heat pump, model Rpnl-043jaz. The lights in my house all flicker every time it goes on....Will the hard start kit resolve this problem?

A hard start might actually make that worse. It does just what it
implies. It adds an extra capacitor to the motor to kick it harder on
the start. This is used when the compressor is getting old and will
not kick over reliably on it's own.

If your connections are solid from the utility, it may just indicate
that your service conductors are too long or too small.

In article ,
says...

On Wed, 8 Jun 2016 19:09:57 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

Hello, I have a Rheem heat pump, model Rpnl-043jaz. The lights in my house all flicker every time it goes on....Will the hard start kit resolve this problem?

A hard start might actually make that worse. It does just what it
implies. It adds an extra capacitor to the motor to kick it harder on
the start. This is used when the compressor is getting old and will
not kick over reliably on it's own.

If your connections are solid from the utility, it may just indicate
that your service conductors are too long or too small.


That was my thoughts also. That the hard start kit might make it worse
as it should cause the motor to draw more current on startup. Unlike
some devices that ramp up the motors slowly.

Could be loose connections of the house wiring or just too small of wire
feeding the house.

I don't know about the Rheem unit, but I was looking at some of the
Trane units and they have what seems to be a hard start kit already in
them.

On Thu, 9 Jun 2016 11:04:26 -0400, Ralph Mowery
wrote:

In article ,
says...

On Wed, 8 Jun 2016 19:09:57 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

Hello, I have a Rheem heat pump, model Rpnl-043jaz. The lights in my house all flicker every time it goes on....Will the hard start kit resolve this problem?

A hard start might actually make that worse. It does just what it
implies. It adds an extra capacitor to the motor to kick it harder on
the start. This is used when the compressor is getting old and will
not kick over reliably on it's own.

If your connections are solid from the utility, it may just indicate
that your service conductors are too long or too small.


That was my thoughts also. That the hard start kit might make it worse
as it should cause the motor to draw more current on startup. Unlike
some devices that ramp up the motors slowly.

Could be loose connections of the house wiring or just too small of wire
feeding the house.

I don't know about the Rheem unit, but I was looking at some of the
Trane units and they have what seems to be a hard start kit already in
them.

Curious minds and all...

Would it matter at all when the problem started? OP just moved in or
has been there years with no problems...

On Thursday, June 9, 2016 at 9:41:53 AM UTC-5, wrote:
On Wed, 8 Jun 2016 19:09:57 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

Hello, I have a Rheem heat pump, model Rpnl-043jaz. The lights in my house all flicker every time it goes on....Will the hard start kit resolve this problem?

A hard start might actually make that worse. It does just what it
implies. It adds an extra capacitor to the motor to kick it harder on
the start. This is used when the compressor is getting old and will
not kick over reliably on it's own.

If your connections are solid from the utility, it may just indicate
that your service conductors are too long or too small.

I've seen hard start kits break the connecting rod in a compressor. The best first move is to install a anti-short cycle timer to let the system pressures equalise so the compressor starts under minimum load. ^_^

[8~{} Uncle Hard Monster

On Thu, 9 Jun 2016 08:41:20 -0700 (PDT), Uncle Monster
wrote:

On Thursday, June 9, 2016 at 9:41:53 AM UTC-5, wrote:
On Wed, 8 Jun 2016 19:09:57 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

Hello, I have a Rheem heat pump, model Rpnl-043jaz. The lights in my house all flicker every time it goes on....Will the hard start kit resolve this problem?

A hard start might actually make that worse. It does just what it
implies. It adds an extra capacitor to the motor to kick it harder on
the start. This is used when the compressor is getting old and will
not kick over reliably on it's own.

If your connections are solid from the utility, it may just indicate
that your service conductors are too long or too small.

I've seen hard start kits break the connecting rod in a compressor. The best first move is to install a anti-short cycle timer to let the system pressures equalise so the compressor starts under minimum load. ^_^

It is worth being sure there is not this kind of protection in the
unit or in the thermostat already. They seem pretty ubiquitous these
days.

On Thursday, June 9, 2016 at 12:56:43 PM UTC-4, wrote:
On Thu, 9 Jun 2016 08:41:20 -0700 (PDT), Uncle Monster
wrote:

On Thursday, June 9, 2016 at 9:41:53 AM UTC-5, wrote:
On Wed, 8 Jun 2016 19:09:57 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

Hello, I have a Rheem heat pump, model Rpnl-043jaz. The lights in my house all flicker every time it goes on....Will the hard start kit resolve this problem?

A hard start might actually make that worse. It does just what it
implies. It adds an extra capacitor to the motor to kick it harder on
the start. This is used when the compressor is getting old and will
not kick over reliably on it's own.

If your connections are solid from the utility, it may just indicate
that your service conductors are too long or too small.

I've seen hard start kits break the connecting rod in a compressor. The best first move is to install a anti-short cycle timer to let the system pressures equalise so the compressor starts under minimum load. ^_^

It is worth being sure there is not this kind of protection in the
unit or in the thermostat already. They seem pretty ubiquitous these
days.

Or that maybe the cap that is there is going bad? Has that been checked?

On Thursday, June 9, 2016 at 11:56:43 AM UTC-5, wrote:
On Thu, 9 Jun 2016 08:41:20 -0700 (PDT), Uncle Monster
wrote:

On Thursday, June 9, 2016 at 9:41:53 AM UTC-5, wrote:
On Wed, 8 Jun 2016 19:09:57 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

Hello, I have a Rheem heat pump, model Rpnl-043jaz. The lights in my house all flicker every time it goes on....Will the hard start kit resolve this problem?

A hard start might actually make that worse. It does just what it
implies. It adds an extra capacitor to the motor to kick it harder on
the start. This is used when the compressor is getting old and will
not kick over reliably on it's own.

If your connections are solid from the utility, it may just indicate
that your service conductors are too long or too small.

I've seen hard start kits break the connecting rod in a compressor. The best first move is to install a anti-short cycle timer to let the system pressures equalise so the compressor starts under minimum load. ^_^

It is worth being sure there is not this kind of protection in the
unit or in the thermostat already. They seem pretty ubiquitous these
days.

Most electronic thermostats have an anti-short cycle timer as a programmable option. You have to look for it because it doesn't come in the default program from the factory. ^_^

[8~{} Uncle Default Monster

Thu, 09 Jun 2016 14:41:39 GMT in alt.home.repair, wrote:

On Wed, 8 Jun 2016 19:09:57 -0700 (PDT),
wrote:

Hello, I have a Rheem heat pump, model Rpnl-043jaz. The lights in
my house all flicker every time it goes on....Will the hard start
kit resolve this problem?

A hard start might actually make that worse. It does just what it
implies. It adds an extra capacitor to the motor to kick it harder
on the start. This is used when the compressor is getting old and
will not kick over reliably on it's own.

A slight flickering is normal on central hvac startup, depending on
the size of the unit and the panel amperage rating. If the unit is
equipped with a hard start pack, it may not cause any
flickering/dimming effect when powered up.

If it doesn't have this hard start pack though, it could cause the
flicker/dimming without anything actually being 'wrong' with the OPs
electrical system.

On a dead stop, the motor is pulling more amps than it would during a
run phase; a considerable amount more, actually. The additional (but
temporary) request for more amps is causing the temporary flickering
or dimming effect. A hard start kit if properly installed and of
sufficient size for the compressor it's going to be used with, should
reduce if not outright eliminate the dimming effect because it's
taking some of the load stress off the power source. Atleast, that's
been my experience and that of others I know who do hvac
professionally for a living. --- I'm not hvac, I'm electrical/IT.

I'm confused about why you wrote that installing a hard start could
make it worse? I would think the opposite would occur. It's reducing
the load being placed on the panel by the compressor when it's used.

http://preview.tinyurl.com/gpb5dhk

http://www.achrnews.com/articles/119...ard-start-kits

It's the same concept as placing a cap into your cars electrical
system so that the amplifier you just had to have won't seriously dim
your headlights and/or stallout the car when a bass note of
sufficient strength hits at a decent volume.

If your connections are solid from the utility, it may just
indicate that your service conductors are too long or too small.

It may also indicate nothing. As, like I said before, the initial
power required for starting an electric motor from a dead stop is
several amps more than it's going to pull once it's up and going.
Considering that the compressor motor is actually pushing a fluid/gas
around with resistance to the process, it's going to pull a
considerable amount of amps to get rolling.

https://www.amazon.ca/SUPCO-SPP6-Sta.../dp/B0002YTLFE

The comment:

4 of 4 people found the following review helpful
5.0 out of 5 stars Easy install & Can hear the different with the A/C
performance May 15 2014
By K K - Published on Amazon.com
Verified Purchase
My street has only 2 electrical transformers and 15 new houses have
been put in the past 2-3 yrs so the power coming into the house does
vary a bit depending on load on the central lines.

When the A/C used to kick on, the lights in the house dimmed and the
A/C unit took 3-6 secs to be running at full speed. Since installing
this, the lights don't dim when it kicks on and the A/C unit is
running at speed in 2-3 secs. The sound of the A/C unit is now
constant with no humming/buzzing anymore. Unit is just over one yr
old on my one yr townhouse.

The reason I shared that comment about a hard start kit is because
that has also been my experience when I've installed them on a few
machines, to reduce 'flicker' effect. I've never seen one make the
situation worse as they don't cause MORE of a power drain on startup,
they eliminate some of it.

It's also entirely possible I've missed something here and I respect
your electrical expertise, so I'm asking why in your professional
opinion you think that installing a hard start kit could make the
flickering/dimming situation worse and not improve it?


--
MID:
Hmmm. I most certainly don't understand how I can access a copy of a
zip file but then not be able to unzip it so I can watch it. That
seems VERY clever!
http://al.howardknight.net/msgid.cgi?ID=145716711400

On Sunday, August 28, 2016 at 1:54:39 AM UTC-4, Diesel wrote:

Thu, 09 Jun 2016 14:41:39 GMT in alt.home.repair, wrote:

On Wed, 8 Jun 2016 19:09:57 -0700 (PDT),
wrote:

Hello, I have a Rheem heat pump, model Rpnl-043jaz. The lights in
my house all flicker every time it goes on....Will the hard start
kit resolve this problem?

A hard start might actually make that worse. It does just what it
implies. It adds an extra capacitor to the motor to kick it harder
on the start. This is used when the compressor is getting old and
will not kick over reliably on it's own.

A slight flickering is normal on central hvac startup, depending on
the size of the unit and the panel amperage rating. If the unit is
equipped with a hard start pack, it may not cause any
flickering/dimming effect when powered up.

If it doesn't have this hard start pack though, it could cause the
flicker/dimming without anything actually being 'wrong' with the OPs
electrical system.

On a dead stop, the motor is pulling more amps than it would during a
run phase; a considerable amount more, actually. The additional (but
temporary) request for more amps is causing the temporary flickering
or dimming effect. A hard start kit if properly installed and of
sufficient size for the compressor it's going to be used with, should
reduce if not outright eliminate the dimming effect because it's
taking some of the load stress off the power source. Atleast, that's
been my experience and that of others I know who do hvac
professionally for a living. --- I'm not hvac, I'm electrical/IT.

I'm confused about why you wrote that installing a hard start could
make it worse? I would think the opposite would occur. It's reducing
the load being placed on the panel by the compressor when it's used.

http://preview.tinyurl.com/gpb5dhk

http://www.achrnews.com/articles/119...ard-start-kits

It's the same concept as placing a cap into your cars electrical
system so that the amplifier you just had to have won't seriously dim
your headlights and/or stallout the car when a bass note of
sufficient strength hits at a decent volume.


Agree with your other points, but not this one. When you put a cap
in a DC circuit on the power input to an amplifier, it does act as
a reservoir. It's fully charged during light or normal loads, when
the amp has a sudden increase in power needed, that cap can supply
some of it and being close to the destination, it can do so without
the impedance effects of many feet of wire.

However, I don't think a hard start kit works that way. If it did,
it could only be effective for 1/120 of a second, because that's
all the initial charge that's there prior to starting will last.
After that the AC voltage has reversed, the cap is drained, there
is no reserervoir and it's being charged in the opposite direction.
Current is needed through the AC supply to go into the cap and to
supply the motor which is trying to start. So, unless the motor
gets over it's starting difficulty in 1/120 of a second, I don't
see how the cap can be helping by being a reservoir like it is in
a DC circuit. I think the hard start kit probably works by
creating more phase shift to the start winding, which will go on
as long as the cap is in the circuit.




If your connections are solid from the utility, it may just
indicate that your service conductors are too long or too small.

It may also indicate nothing. As, like I said before, the initial
power required for starting an electric motor from a dead stop is
several amps more than it's going to pull once it's up and going.
Considering that the compressor motor is actually pushing a fluid/gas
around with resistance to the process, it's going to pull a
considerable amount of amps to get rolling.

https://www.amazon.ca/SUPCO-SPP6-Sta.../dp/B0002YTLFE

The comment:

4 of 4 people found the following review helpful
5.0 out of 5 stars Easy install & Can hear the different with the A/C
performance May 15 2014
By K K - Published on Amazon.com
Verified Purchase
My street has only 2 electrical transformers and 15 new houses have
been put in the past 2-3 yrs so the power coming into the house does
vary a bit depending on load on the central lines.

When the A/C used to kick on, the lights in the house dimmed and the
A/C unit took 3-6 secs to be running at full speed. Since installing
this, the lights don't dim when it kicks on and the A/C unit is
running at speed in 2-3 secs. The sound of the A/C unit is now
constant with no humming/buzzing anymore. Unit is just over one yr
old on my one yr townhouse.

The reason I shared that comment about a hard start kit is because
that has also been my experience when I've installed them on a few
machines, to reduce 'flicker' effect. I've never seen one make the
situation worse as they don't cause MORE of a power drain on startup,
they eliminate some of it.


Agree. Best evidence of this is that they are often installed when
the motor has started blowing fuses. That's what happened with my
old AC. Once the kit was put in, no more blown fuses for 15 more
years until it was replaced, while still working. If it increased
the demand instead of moderating it, you'd have blown fuses, tripped
breakers, and they wouldn't work.

"trader_4" wrote in message
...

On Sunday, August 28, 2016 at 1:54:39 AM UTC-4, Diesel wrote:

Thu, 09 Jun 2016 14:41:39 GMT in alt.home.repair, wrote:

On Wed, 8 Jun 2016 19:09:57 -0700 (PDT),
wrote:

Hello, I have a Rheem heat pump, model Rpnl-043jaz. The lights in
my house all flicker every time it goes on....Will the hard start
kit resolve this problem?

A hard start might actually make that worse. It does just what it
implies. It adds an extra capacitor to the motor to kick it harder
on the start. This is used when the compressor is getting old and
will not kick over reliably on it's own.

A slight flickering is normal on central hvac startup, depending on
the size of the unit and the panel amperage rating. If the unit is
equipped with a hard start pack, it may not cause any
flickering/dimming effect when powered up.

If it doesn't have this hard start pack though, it could cause the
flicker/dimming without anything actually being 'wrong' with the OPs
electrical system.

On a dead stop, the motor is pulling more amps than it would during a
run phase; a considerable amount more, actually. The additional (but
temporary) request for more amps is causing the temporary flickering
or dimming effect. A hard start kit if properly installed and of
sufficient size for the compressor it's going to be used with, should
reduce if not outright eliminate the dimming effect because it's
taking some of the load stress off the power source. Atleast, that's
been my experience and that of others I know who do hvac
professionally for a living. --- I'm not hvac, I'm electrical/IT.

I'm confused about why you wrote that installing a hard start could
make it worse? I would think the opposite would occur. It's reducing
the load being placed on the panel by the compressor when it's used.

http://preview.tinyurl.com/gpb5dhk

http://www.achrnews.com/articles/119...ard-start-kits

It's the same concept as placing a cap into your cars electrical
system so that the amplifier you just had to have won't seriously dim
your headlights and/or stallout the car when a bass note of
sufficient strength hits at a decent volume.


Agree with your other points, but not this one. When you put a cap
in a DC circuit on the power input to an amplifier, it does act as
a reservoir. It's fully charged during light or normal loads, when
the amp has a sudden increase in power needed, that cap can supply
some of it and being close to the destination, it can do so without
the impedance effects of many feet of wire.

However, I don't think a hard start kit works that way. If it did,
it could only be effective for 1/120 of a second, because that's
all the initial charge that's there prior to starting will last.
After that the AC voltage has reversed, the cap is drained, there
is no reserervoir and it's being charged in the opposite direction.
Current is needed through the AC supply to go into the cap and to
supply the motor which is trying to start. So, unless the motor
gets over it's starting difficulty in 1/120 of a second, I don't
see how the cap can be helping by being a reservoir like it is in
a DC circuit. I think the hard start kit probably works by
creating more phase shift to the start winding, which will go on
as long as the cap is in the circuit.

*** I am sorry but you need little more knowledge about Capacitors
And how are used. In his application capacitor is always drained and it
is use for two reasons to limit current and keep compressor running in
"right direction" in AC systems. In DC system are used as surge or spiking
Limiters and yes it could be use as instantaneous supply like in Cameras
are even car start up but they always must be connected to source
before it can be used that is why you need to wait to charge before your
flash on camera will work and if capacitor start to leak you lose both.
This Capacitors are call (ELECTROLYTIC) they are not consider Caps.


If your connections are solid from the utility, it may just
indicate that your service conductors are too long or too small.

It may also indicate nothing. As, like I said before, the initial
power required for starting an electric motor from a dead stop is
several amps more than it's going to pull once it's up and going.
Considering that the compressor motor is actually pushing a fluid/gas
around with resistance to the process, it's going to pull a
considerable amount of amps to get rolling.

https://www.amazon.ca/SUPCO-SPP6-Sta.../dp/B0002YTLFE

The comment:

4 of 4 people found the following review helpful
5.0 out of 5 stars Easy install & Can hear the different with the A/C
performance May 15 2014
By K K - Published on Amazon.com
Verified Purchase
My street has only 2 electrical transformers and 15 new houses have
been put in the past 2-3 yrs so the power coming into the house does
vary a bit depending on load on the central lines.

When the A/C used to kick on, the lights in the house dimmed and the
A/C unit took 3-6 secs to be running at full speed. Since installing
this, the lights don't dim when it kicks on and the A/C unit is
running at speed in 2-3 secs. The sound of the A/C unit is now
constant with no humming/buzzing anymore. Unit is just over one yr
old on my one yr townhouse.

The reason I shared that comment about a hard start kit is because
that has also been my experience when I've installed them on a few
machines, to reduce 'flicker' effect. I've never seen one make the
situation worse as they don't cause MORE of a power drain on startup,
they eliminate some of it.


Agree. Best evidence of this is that they are often installed when
the motor has started blowing fuses. That's what happened with my
old AC. Once the kit was put in, no more blown fuses for 15 more
years until it was replaced, while still working. If it increased
the demand instead of moderating it, you'd have blown fuses, tripped
breakers, and they wouldn't work.

trader_4
Sun, 28
Aug 2016 13:16:53 GMT in alt.home.repair, wrote:

Agree with your other points, but not this one. When you put a
cap in a DC circuit on the power input to an amplifier, it does
act as a reservoir. It's fully charged during light or normal
loads, when the amp has a sudden increase in power needed, that
cap can supply some of it and being close to the destination, it
can do so without the impedance effects of many feet of wire.

It may not have been the best example. was just the easiest to
explain...

However, I don't think a hard start kit works that way. If it
did, it could only be effective for 1/120 of a second, because
that's all the initial charge that's there prior to starting will
last.

The hard start cap is only good for momentary contact. It's to be
disconnected as soon as the motor has achieved 'run' rpms. Otherwise,
you'd toast the cap. IE; it sends a surge of current to the start
windings to get the motor up and going, and within a few seconds, a
relay is supposed (in some) to kick it off the start cap/windings and
onto the run cap/run windings.

As I said though, hvac isn't my specialty and I fully admit I could
be wrong in how the cap is being used in this way.

http://www.capacitorformotor.com/start_capacitor.html

This website seems to agree with me though...

What is a Start Capacitor?

Designed for momentary use, the start capacitor is what lets a motor
start up instantly instead of taking a long time to come up to speed
before it can be used. It stays energized long enough to rapidly
bring the motor to 3/4 of its full speed and is then taken out of the
circuit. It will briefly increase motor starting torque and allow a
motor to be cycled on and off rapidly, but is not meant to be used
for more than a few seconds.

What exactly does it do?

Single phase motors will commonly have both a start and run
capacitor. The difference between the two is that the start capacitor
has a much higher ability to store charge, also known as its
capacitance rating, for its size than that of the run capacitor.
Essentially, the start cap gives the motor a bolt of energy in order
to get it up and running, while the run capacitor keeps the motor
going after the start capacitor shuts down.



--
MID:
Hmmm. I most certainly don't understand how I can access a copy of a
zip file but then not be able to unzip it so I can watch it. That
seems VERY clever!
http://al.howardknight.net/msgid.cgi?ID=145716711400