I recently acquired a lot of older BX/armored cable. Many have a little
aluminum wire inside which I see wrapped around the ends of the cable on
some of them where they were taken out of service.Some of the cables have
white, green and black wires in addition to this aluminum wire, many are
just white, black and the little wire. What is the purpose of this little
aluminum wire ? Is this a primitive ground or bonding wire?

Roanin

On Sun, 4 Dec 2011 19:13:19 -0500, "Roanin" wrote:

I recently acquired a lot of older BX/armored cable. Many have a little
aluminum wire inside which I see wrapped around the ends of the cable on
some of them where they were taken out of service.Some of the cables have
white, green and black wires in addition to this aluminum wire, many are
just white, black and the little wire. What is the purpose of this little
aluminum wire ? Is this a primitive ground or bonding wire?

Yes. The idea is to fold and twist that drain wire back along the spiral in
the armor. The screw in the box connector then contacts that drain wire to
make a solid ground. It's not as good as a conductor-sized ground but it
works.

On 12/4/2011 7:45 PM, zzzzzzzzzz wrote:
On Sun, 4 Dec 2011 19:13:19 -0500, wrote:

I recently acquired a lot of older BX/armored cable. Many have a little
aluminum wire inside which I see wrapped around the ends of the cable on
some of them where they were taken out of service.Some of the cables have
white, green and black wires in addition to this aluminum wire, many are
just white, black and the little wire. What is the purpose of this little
aluminum wire ? Is this a primitive ground or bonding wire?

Yes. The idea is to fold and twist that drain wire back along the spiral in
the armor. The screw in the box connector then contacts that drain wire to
make a solid ground. It's not as good as a conductor-sized ground but it
works.

It's not a ground. Read gfretwell's post

On Sun, 04 Dec 2011 20:06:56 -0500, RBM wrote:

On 12/4/2011 7:45 PM, zzzzzzzzzz wrote:
On Sun, 4 Dec 2011 19:13:19 -0500, wrote:

I recently acquired a lot of older BX/armored cable. Many have a little
aluminum wire inside which I see wrapped around the ends of the cable on
some of them where they were taken out of service.Some of the cables have
white, green and black wires in addition to this aluminum wire, many are
just white, black and the little wire. What is the purpose of this little
aluminum wire ? Is this a primitive ground or bonding wire?

Yes. The idea is to fold and twist that drain wire back along the spiral in
the armor. The screw in the box connector then contacts that drain wire to
make a solid ground. It's not as good as a conductor-sized ground but it
works.

It's not a ground. Read gfretwell's post

Actually, it is. Read gfretwell's post.

On 12/4/2011 10:32 PM, wrote:
On Sun, 04 Dec 2011 19:41:18 -0500, wrote:

On Sun, 4 Dec 2011 19:13:19 -0500,
wrote:

I recently acquired a lot of older BX/armored cable. Many have a little
aluminum wire inside which I see wrapped around the ends of the cable on
some of them where they were taken out of service.Some of the cables have
white, green and black wires in addition to this aluminum wire, many are
just white, black and the little wire. What is the purpose of this little
aluminum wire ? Is this a primitive ground or bonding wire?

Roanin

It is an internal bond wire and the function is to shunt out any
inductive component introduced by the spiral armor. It is doing it's
job on every wrap. There is no need to terminate it but guys do have
creative ways to do it anyway.

I always wrap them around the outside of the armor and then clamp the
cable against it. It's not a "real" ground, but it does a pretty good
job of grounding along with the armor itself. The old BX without that
wire would heat up if there was a short in the system. You'd think
that steel armor would make a good ground, but there is a lot of
resistance in them. Several times when I was doing electrical work, I
ran into a hot cable. Once the cable was so hot it was charring wood
and was not far from causing a fire. That strand eliminated that
problem.

The OP said he has some with a green wire and that alum strand. I've
never seen that. Greenfield was always sold as the armor alone, qand
you would add your own wires including a green one, but that strand
was never included. (Not that I ever saw).


BX cable was outlawed years ago for safety reasons and the replacement
is MC cable. The old BX cable has a paper or fiber filler where the new
MC cable has a tough plastic inner wrap. I run MC cable all the time.

TDD

On 12/5/2011 1:18 AM, The Daring Dufas wrote:

BX cable was outlawed years ago for safety reasons and the replacement
is MC cable.

Nonsense. Armored cable (BX) is still permitted under the 2011 NEC. See
Article 320.

"Doug Miller" wrote in message
...
On 12/5/2011 1:18 AM, The Daring Dufas wrote:

BX cable was outlawed years ago for safety reasons and the replacement
is MC cable.

Nonsense. Armored cable (BX) is still permitted under the 2011 NEC. See
Article 320.

Much of the cable I acquired has each individual conductor wrapped in paper.
Is this BX?

R

Ideally, the ground carries zero amps. I hope you found out what was wrong,
and repaired it.

wrote in message
...

I always wrap them around the outside of the armor and then clamp the
cable against it. It's not a "real" ground, but it does a pretty good
job of grounding along with the armor itself. The old BX without that
wire would heat up if there was a short in the system. You'd think
that steel armor would make a good ground, but there is a lot of
resistance in them. Several times when I was doing electrical work, I
ran into a hot cable. Once the cable was so hot it was charring wood
and was not far from causing a fire. That strand eliminated that
problem.

On 12/5/2011 6:08 AM, Doug Miller wrote:
On 12/5/2011 1:18 AM, The Daring Dufas wrote:

BX cable was outlawed years ago for safety reasons and the replacement
is MC cable.

Nonsense. Armored cable (BX) is still permitted under the 2011 NEC. See
Article 320.

Perhaps it's just in my area, it's not allowed around here and none of
the supply houses have carried BX for years. The only thing you will
find at the big box stores and electrical suppliers is MC cable. The old
BX with paper insulation vanished from the supply chain a long time ago.
I use Greenfield conduit all the time on commercial refrigeration
equipment and for any application where I need to protect loose wires of
any kind for short distances. If I use Greenfield/flexible metal conduit
for a longer run, I add a ground wire and bonding grounds at either end
for my peace of mind and the electrical inspectors happiness. ^_^

TDD

It sounds pretty clear to me, that you saved a couple deaths, that time. And
that the house really was in need of serious rewiring. But, you did the best
you could with the matter. And I'm figuring that you'll be blessed for your
honest efforts. Good on you, mate!

wrote in message
...
On this particular job, it was beyond a repair. It involved a
complete rewiring. They had this one 14-2 Bx (the old cloth covered
****), feeding an entire apartment. There were two plug fuses in the
box. One fuse for the upper apartment, one for the lower one. The
fuses should have been 15A, they had 30A fuses in both slots. It was
the Bx feeding the upper that nearly caught fire. The sucker was so
hot the plaster wall was warm to touch, and thats the old wood lathe
and plaster walls. I actually identified the run of the wire by
feeling the walls for warm plaster. At one point I told the owner to
call the fire dept. I smelled smoke and seriously thought the was a
fire inside the walls. He refused, saying they would condemn the
place (it was a very run down building in a bad neighborhood). After
cutting the power to the whole building, I proceeded to rip out
several large sections of wall to expose the wire and be sure there
was no fire. Whereever this bx touched wood, the wood was charred. I
actually think it was hot enough to be glowing red on the armor, the
wire inside was all charred and the insulation fell right off.

I ran several romex cables up thru the same holes and got a few
temporary outlets working for the guy that day. The lower apartment
was vacant, so I used both the fuses for the upper apt. with the
proper size fuses. The next day I returned and installed a breaker
box, and ran several circuits to that upper apt. I would have
preferred replacing everything but the guy said he could not afford a
complete rewire of everything, so I did reuse some of the old bx in
the walls to the individual lights and stuff. They were still usable,
and now there were 4 breakers for each apt.

The only thing is that he said he could not afford to rewire the lower
apt. Said he would call me back sometime, but I never heard from the
guy again. So, that lower apt was running off one 15A breaker when I
left.

I have a feeling that if I had gotten there an hour later, that
building would have been on fire. When he called me, he said the
lights were getting dim, then bright again, and would go off
completely at times, and his refrigerator was not working, and said
something smelled hot. Thats when I suggested calling the fire dept
(the first time). He refused, so I told him to shut off the power,
but he said he did not know how. So, I went there almost immediately,
and that was probably a real good thing. When I opened that fuse box,
that cloth covered wire has the wax boiling on it (that stuff had wax
as part of the cloth insulation). That was one of the scariest wiring
jobs I ever encountered, because I just was not sure if there was a
fire or not, and the owner was not cooperative. Actually he seemed to
be fairly intoxicated.

On Dec 5, 7:41*am, wrote:
On Mon, 05 Dec 2011 07:08:43 -0500, Doug Miller

wrote:
On 12/5/2011 1:18 AM, The Daring Dufas wrote:

BX cable was outlawed years ago for safety reasons and the replacement
is MC cable.

Nonsense. Armored cable (BX) is still permitted under the 2011 NEC. See
Article 320.

Correct.

BX is a brand name for type AC cable. The bonding strip is relatively
new but still decades ago. If you find some WWII vintage or older it
will not have the bond strip. I think the cut in was in the 50s or
early 60s.\

The AC cable with a green wire is HCF cable, that meets the
requirement for redundant grounding in patient care areas.
MC cable has the green wire, the plastic inner wrap, no bond strip but
the armor is not suitable for bonding unless it is the new style MC
that has the large bare bond wire in it.

http://www.iaei.org/magazine/2006/09...le-crosses-app...

I used to own a house that was built in 1948 or 1949 and the original
BX remaining, while not having a separate ground conductor, did have a
bonding strip.

nate

On 12/5/2011 7:39 AM, Roanin wrote:
"Doug wrote in message
...
On 12/5/2011 1:18 AM, The Daring Dufas wrote:

BX cable was outlawed years ago for safety reasons and the replacement
is MC cable.

Nonsense. Armored cable (BX) is still permitted under the 2011 NEC. See
Article 320.

Much of the cable I acquired has each individual conductor wrapped in paper.
Is this BX?

I doubt it, but I'm not sure what you have, either. I've never seen any
BX with paper wrapped conductors.

On 12/5/2011 11:28 AM, wrote:
On Mon, 05 Dec 2011 09:23:19 -0600, The Daring Dufas
wrote:

On 12/5/2011 6:08 AM, Doug Miller wrote:
On 12/5/2011 1:18 AM, The Daring Dufas wrote:

BX cable was outlawed years ago for safety reasons and the replacement
is MC cable.

Nonsense. Armored cable (BX) is still permitted under the 2011 NEC. See
Article 320.

Perhaps it's just in my area, it's not allowed around here and none of
the supply houses have carried BX for years. The only thing you will
find at the big box stores and electrical suppliers is MC cable. The old
BX with paper insulation vanished from the supply chain a long time ago.
I use Greenfield conduit all the time on commercial refrigeration
equipment and for any application where I need to protect loose wires of
any kind for short distances. If I use Greenfield/flexible metal conduit
for a longer run, I add a ground wire and bonding grounds at either end
for my peace of mind and the electrical inspectors happiness. ^_^

TDD

They still make AC cable, it still has paper wrapping the conductors
and it is legal everywhere unless you have an AHJ that writes his own
rules.

Most of the time you will see it in HCF (hospital) style because it is
the only legal cable in patient care facilities.

The only ramification of the paper wrapper is that makes this a dry
location only wiring method. You also need the red insulating bushings
on AC cable. They are not required on MC if you use the appropriate
connector.

http://www.afcweb.com/pdf_2011/p32_ac.pdf

Here in Birmingham the city electrical code is stricter than in the
county for some reason and often stricter than the NEC. I'm telling
you the truth about BX around here, I haven't seen any new BX in years.

TDD

On Dec 5, 1:45*pm, wrote:
On Mon, 05 Dec 2011 12:27:36 -0600, The Daring Dufas



wrote:
On 12/5/2011 11:28 AM, wrote:
On Mon, 05 Dec 2011 09:23:19 -0600, The Daring Dufas
*wrote:

On 12/5/2011 6:08 AM, Doug Miller wrote:
On 12/5/2011 1:18 AM, The Daring Dufas wrote:

BX cable was outlawed years ago for safety reasons and the replacement
is MC cable.

Nonsense. Armored cable (BX) is still permitted under the 2011 NEC. See
Article 320.

Perhaps it's just in my area, it's not allowed around here and none of
the supply houses have carried BX for years. The only thing you will
find at the big box stores and electrical suppliers is MC cable. The old
BX with paper insulation vanished from the supply chain a long time ago.
I use Greenfield conduit all the time on commercial refrigeration
equipment and for any application where I need to protect loose wires of
any kind for short distances. If I use Greenfield/flexible metal conduit
for a longer run, I add a ground wire and bonding grounds at either end
for my peace of mind and the electrical inspectors happiness. ^_^

TDD

They still make AC cable, it still has paper wrapping the conductors
and it is legal everywhere unless you have an AHJ that writes his own
rules.

Most of the time you will see it in HCF (hospital) style because it is
the only legal cable in patient care facilities.

The only ramification of the paper wrapper is that makes this a dry
location only wiring method. You also need the red insulating bushings
on AC cable. They are not required on MC if you use the appropriate
connector.

http://www.afcweb.com/pdf_2011/p32_ac.pdf

Here in Birmingham the city electrical code is stricter than in the
county for some reason and often stricter than the NEC. I'm telling
you the truth about BX around here, I haven't seen any new BX in years.

TDD

Do you work around hospitals? That is the usual place you see AC cable
these days.

You see MC cabling installed in commercial buildings... It is used
above
drop ceilings which serve as open plenum returns...

It is preferred in larger cities in all applications as rodents can't
chew through
it and cause short circuits and fires inside of sealed wall
cavities...

In NYC all wiring has to be in conduit or type MC cable...

~~ Evan

On Mon, 05 Dec 2011 07:08:43 -0500, Doug Miller
wrote:

On 12/5/2011 1:18 AM, The Daring Dufas wrote:

BX cable was outlawed years ago for safety reasons and the replacement
is MC cable.

Nonsense. Armored cable (BX) is still permitted under the 2011 NEC. See
Article 320.
No, the "original" BX is not only not allowed by code, it has not
been made (at least in North America) for over a decade. TypeAC and MC
cable is the replacement, and is almost universally ALUMINUM, not
galvanized steel.
Type AC cable will always have a 16 AWG aluminum bond wire under the
armor, and the individual insulated conductors will each have a kraft
paper wrap.
Type MC cable does not contain either of these items and has an
overall plastic wrap over the insulated
circuit conductors and a continuous aluminum bonding strip..

On 12/5/2011 12:45 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 05 Dec 2011 12:27:36 -0600, The Daring Dufas
wrote:

On 12/5/2011 11:28 AM, wrote:
On Mon, 05 Dec 2011 09:23:19 -0600, The Daring Dufas
wrote:

On 12/5/2011 6:08 AM, Doug Miller wrote:
On 12/5/2011 1:18 AM, The Daring Dufas wrote:

BX cable was outlawed years ago for safety reasons and the replacement
is MC cable.

Nonsense. Armored cable (BX) is still permitted under the 2011 NEC. See
Article 320.

Perhaps it's just in my area, it's not allowed around here and none of
the supply houses have carried BX for years. The only thing you will
find at the big box stores and electrical suppliers is MC cable. The old
BX with paper insulation vanished from the supply chain a long time ago.
I use Greenfield conduit all the time on commercial refrigeration
equipment and for any application where I need to protect loose wires of
any kind for short distances. If I use Greenfield/flexible metal conduit
for a longer run, I add a ground wire and bonding grounds at either end
for my peace of mind and the electrical inspectors happiness. ^_^

TDD

They still make AC cable, it still has paper wrapping the conductors
and it is legal everywhere unless you have an AHJ that writes his own
rules.

Most of the time you will see it in HCF (hospital) style because it is
the only legal cable in patient care facilities.

The only ramification of the paper wrapper is that makes this a dry
location only wiring method. You also need the red insulating bushings
on AC cable. They are not required on MC if you use the appropriate
connector.

http://www.afcweb.com/pdf_2011/p32_ac.pdf

Here in Birmingham the city electrical code is stricter than in the
county for some reason and often stricter than the NEC. I'm telling
you the truth about BX around here, I haven't seen any new BX in years.

TDD

Do you work around hospitals? That is the usual place you see AC cable
these days.

I've seen MC in hospitals that had different color paint but didn't see
any of the ends so I could see if it was really BX. I just called one
of the largest electrical suppliers in the state and the city sales guy
told me that BX is no longer sold by them and hasn't been in inventory
for a very long time. As far as armored cable goes, it's all over the
place except in the form of BX.

TDD

On Mon, 5 Dec 2011 07:39:12 -0500, "Roanin"
wrote:


"Doug Miller" wrote in message
...
On 12/5/2011 1:18 AM, The Daring Dufas wrote:

BX cable was outlawed years ago for safety reasons and the replacement
is MC cable.

Nonsense. Armored cable (BX) is still permitted under the 2011 NEC. See
Article 320.

Much of the cable I acquired has each individual conductor wrapped in paper.
Is this BX?

R

If it has no bare ground conductor it is BX. If it does, and the
ground conductor is aluminum it is type AC. If it does, and the bare
ground conductor is copper, it could be type AC or BX. If it is
galvanized steel armor it is MOST LIKELY BX.
If it is Type AC it passes NEC 2011. If it is ungrounded BX it does
not.

It is definitely not Type MC because type MC does not have a paper or
Raffia wrap.

On Mon, 05 Dec 2011 11:16:32 -0500, Doug Miller
wrote:

On 12/5/2011 7:39 AM, Roanin wrote:
"Doug wrote in message
...
On 12/5/2011 1:18 AM, The Daring Dufas wrote:

BX cable was outlawed years ago for safety reasons and the replacement
is MC cable.

Nonsense. Armored cable (BX) is still permitted under the 2011 NEC. See
Article 320.

Much of the cable I acquired has each individual conductor wrapped in paper.
Is this BX?

I doubt it, but I'm not sure what you have, either. I've never seen any
BX with paper wrapped conductors.
ALL real original BX had paper or raffia wrapped conductors.

On Mon, 05 Dec 2011 12:28:02 -0500, wrote:

On Mon, 05 Dec 2011 09:23:19 -0600, The Daring Dufas
wrote:

On 12/5/2011 6:08 AM, Doug Miller wrote:
On 12/5/2011 1:18 AM, The Daring Dufas wrote:

BX cable was outlawed years ago for safety reasons and the replacement
is MC cable.

Nonsense. Armored cable (BX) is still permitted under the 2011 NEC. See
Article 320.

Perhaps it's just in my area, it's not allowed around here and none of
the supply houses have carried BX for years. The only thing you will
find at the big box stores and electrical suppliers is MC cable. The old
BX with paper insulation vanished from the supply chain a long time ago.
I use Greenfield conduit all the time on commercial refrigeration
equipment and for any application where I need to protect loose wires of
any kind for short distances. If I use Greenfield/flexible metal conduit
for a longer run, I add a ground wire and bonding grounds at either end
for my peace of mind and the electrical inspectors happiness. ^_^

TDD

They still make AC cable, it still has paper wrapping the conductors
and it is legal everywhere unless you have an AHJ that writes his own
rules.

Most of the time you will see it in HCF (hospital) style because it is
the only legal cable in patient care facilities.

The only ramification of the paper wrapper is that makes this a dry
location only wiring method. You also need the red insulating bushings
on AC cable. They are not required on MC if you use the appropriate
connector.

http://www.afcweb.com/pdf_2011/p32_ac.pdf
and the type AC cable MUST have either a bare or green insulated
ground wire. Current Type AC (not HCF) has a bare ALUMINUM ground.

On 12/5/2011 5:46 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 5 Dec 2011 07:39:12 -0500,
wrote:


"Doug wrote in message
...
On 12/5/2011 1:18 AM, The Daring Dufas wrote:

BX cable was outlawed years ago for safety reasons and the replacement
is MC cable.

Nonsense. Armored cable (BX) is still permitted under the 2011 NEC. See
Article 320.

Much of the cable I acquired has each individual conductor wrapped in paper.
Is this BX?

R

If it has no bare ground conductor it is BX. If it does, and the
ground conductor is aluminum it is type AC. If it does, and the bare
ground conductor is copper, it could be type AC or BX. If it is
galvanized steel armor it is MOST LIKELY BX.
If it is Type AC it passes NEC 2011. If it is ungrounded BX it does
not.

It is definitely not Type MC because type MC does not have a paper or
Raffia wrap.

BX is not a cable designation. It is type AC cable made by GE's Sprague
division

On 12/5/2011 5:45 PM, The Daring Dufas wrote:
On 12/5/2011 12:45 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 05 Dec 2011 12:27:36 -0600, The Daring Dufas
wrote:

On 12/5/2011 11:28 AM, wrote:
On Mon, 05 Dec 2011 09:23:19 -0600, The Daring Dufas
wrote:

On 12/5/2011 6:08 AM, Doug Miller wrote:
On 12/5/2011 1:18 AM, The Daring Dufas wrote:

BX cable was outlawed years ago for safety reasons and the
replacement
is MC cable.

Nonsense. Armored cable (BX) is still permitted under the 2011
NEC. See
Article 320.

Perhaps it's just in my area, it's not allowed around here and none of
the supply houses have carried BX for years. The only thing you will
find at the big box stores and electrical suppliers is MC cable.
The old
BX with paper insulation vanished from the supply chain a long time
ago.
I use Greenfield conduit all the time on commercial refrigeration
equipment and for any application where I need to protect loose
wires of
any kind for short distances. If I use Greenfield/flexible metal
conduit
for a longer run, I add a ground wire and bonding grounds at either
end
for my peace of mind and the electrical inspectors happiness. ^_^

TDD

They still make AC cable, it still has paper wrapping the conductors
and it is legal everywhere unless you have an AHJ that writes his own
rules.

Most of the time you will see it in HCF (hospital) style because it is
the only legal cable in patient care facilities.

The only ramification of the paper wrapper is that makes this a dry
location only wiring method. You also need the red insulating bushings
on AC cable. They are not required on MC if you use the appropriate
connector.

http://www.afcweb.com/pdf_2011/p32_ac.pdf

Here in Birmingham the city electrical code is stricter than in the
county for some reason and often stricter than the NEC. I'm telling
you the truth about BX around here, I haven't seen any new BX in years.

TDD

Do you work around hospitals? That is the usual place you see AC cable
these days.

I've seen MC in hospitals that had different color paint but didn't see
any of the ends so I could see if it was really BX. I just called one
of the largest electrical suppliers in the state and the city sales guy
told me that BX is no longer sold by them and hasn't been in inventory
for a very long time. As far as armored cable goes, it's all over the
place except in the form of BX.

TDD


Except that, what we in the trade refer to as BX, is AC cable

On 12/5/2011 5:53 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 05 Dec 2011 12:28:02 -0500, wrote:

On Mon, 05 Dec 2011 09:23:19 -0600, The Daring Dufas
wrote:

On 12/5/2011 6:08 AM, Doug Miller wrote:
On 12/5/2011 1:18 AM, The Daring Dufas wrote:

BX cable was outlawed years ago for safety reasons and the replacement
is MC cable.

Nonsense. Armored cable (BX) is still permitted under the 2011 NEC. See
Article 320.

Perhaps it's just in my area, it's not allowed around here and none of
the supply houses have carried BX for years. The only thing you will
find at the big box stores and electrical suppliers is MC cable. The old
BX with paper insulation vanished from the supply chain a long time ago.
I use Greenfield conduit all the time on commercial refrigeration
equipment and for any application where I need to protect loose wires of
any kind for short distances. If I use Greenfield/flexible metal conduit
for a longer run, I add a ground wire and bonding grounds at either end
for my peace of mind and the electrical inspectors happiness. ^_^

TDD

They still make AC cable, it still has paper wrapping the conductors
and it is legal everywhere unless you have an AHJ that writes his own
rules.

Most of the time you will see it in HCF (hospital) style because it is
the only legal cable in patient care facilities.

The only ramification of the paper wrapper is that makes this a dry
location only wiring method. You also need the red insulating bushings
on AC cable. They are not required on MC if you use the appropriate
connector.

http://www.afcweb.com/pdf_2011/p32_ac.pdf
and the type AC cable MUST have either a bare or green insulated
ground wire. Current Type AC (not HCF) has a bare ALUMINUM ground.

The current type AC cable that I'm using has no ground wires, but has
the same aluminum bonding wire that's been in type AC cable for years

On 12/5/2011 5:43 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 05 Dec 2011 07:08:43 -0500, Doug Miller
wrote:

On 12/5/2011 1:18 AM, The Daring Dufas wrote:

BX cable was outlawed years ago for safety reasons and the replacement
is MC cable.

Nonsense. Armored cable (BX) is still permitted under the 2011 NEC. See
Article 320.
No, the "original" BX is not only not allowed by code, it has not
been made (at least in North America) for over a decade. TypeAC and MC
cable is the replacement, and is almost universally ALUMINUM, not
galvanized steel.
Type AC cable will always have a 16 AWG aluminum bond wire under the
armor, and the individual insulated conductors will each have a kraft
paper wrap.
Type MC cable does not contain either of these items and has an
overall plastic wrap over the insulated
circuit conductors and a continuous aluminum bonding strip..

Claire still doesn't get that there has never been a type "BX" cable
recognized by the NEC. Since it's never been a NEC designation, how can
it be not allowed

On 12/5/2011 8:49 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 05 Dec 2011 18:31:59 -0500, wrote:

On 12/5/2011 5:43 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 05 Dec 2011 07:08:43 -0500, Doug Miller
wrote:

On 12/5/2011 1:18 AM, The Daring Dufas wrote:

BX cable was outlawed years ago for safety reasons and the replacement
is MC cable.

Nonsense. Armored cable (BX) is still permitted under the 2011 NEC. See
Article 320.
No, the "original" BX is not only not allowed by code, it has not
been made (at least in North America) for over a decade. TypeAC and MC
cable is the replacement, and is almost universally ALUMINUM, not
galvanized steel.
Type AC cable will always have a 16 AWG aluminum bond wire under the
armor, and the individual insulated conductors will each have a kraft
paper wrap.
Type MC cable does not contain either of these items and has an
overall plastic wrap over the insulated
circuit conductors and a continuous aluminum bonding strip..

Claire still doesn't get that there has never been a type "BX" cable
recognized by the NEC. Since it's never been a NEC designation, how can
it be not allowed
OK - let's put it THIS way.
The earlier style AC is no longer allowed by code. ALL of the original
"BX" brand cable was the "early" AC type, although not all early "AC"
cable was "BX"
The early "AC" or "BX" cable was galvanized steel wrapped, rubber
insulated, raffia wrapped, with no bare or insulated ground, and no
bonding strip. This cable has not passed code for over a decade, and
has not been made for about half a century.

There are now 2 BASIC types of spiral wound armored cable in use in
North America. There is type "AC" - aluminum sheathed, with either
bare or green insulated ground and no bonding ribbon - with
thermoplastic or PVC insulation and paper or raffia wrap.
There is also type "MC", which does not require the bare or insulated
ground for most applications - but is also available with an insulated
ground - and has a continuous aluminum ribbon "bonding strip" as part
of it's spec. It has a plastic wrap instead of the raffia or paper -
which is the most obvious difference at first glance.

I DO get it.
You just either don't read too good or you want to be miserable.

What you don't seem to get, is that cable evolves. Earlier AC or later
AC are still AC, though their properties have evolved over the years.
There is no comparison between AC cable and BX cable, because they are
one in the same.

On Mon, 05 Dec 2011 22:28:46 -0500, RBM wrote:

On 12/5/2011 8:49 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 05 Dec 2011 18:31:59 -0500, wrote:

On 12/5/2011 5:43 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 05 Dec 2011 07:08:43 -0500, Doug Miller
wrote:

On 12/5/2011 1:18 AM, The Daring Dufas wrote:

BX cable was outlawed years ago for safety reasons and the replacement
is MC cable.

Nonsense. Armored cable (BX) is still permitted under the 2011 NEC. See
Article 320.
No, the "original" BX is not only not allowed by code, it has not
been made (at least in North America) for over a decade. TypeAC and MC
cable is the replacement, and is almost universally ALUMINUM, not
galvanized steel.
Type AC cable will always have a 16 AWG aluminum bond wire under the
armor, and the individual insulated conductors will each have a kraft
paper wrap.
Type MC cable does not contain either of these items and has an
overall plastic wrap over the insulated
circuit conductors and a continuous aluminum bonding strip..

Claire still doesn't get that there has never been a type "BX" cable
recognized by the NEC. Since it's never been a NEC designation, how can
it be not allowed
OK - let's put it THIS way.
The earlier style AC is no longer allowed by code. ALL of the original
"BX" brand cable was the "early" AC type, although not all early "AC"
cable was "BX"
The early "AC" or "BX" cable was galvanized steel wrapped, rubber
insulated, raffia wrapped, with no bare or insulated ground, and no
bonding strip. This cable has not passed code for over a decade, and
has not been made for about half a century.

There are now 2 BASIC types of spiral wound armored cable in use in
North America. There is type "AC" - aluminum sheathed, with either
bare or green insulated ground and no bonding ribbon - with
thermoplastic or PVC insulation and paper or raffia wrap.
There is also type "MC", which does not require the bare or insulated
ground for most applications - but is also available with an insulated
ground - and has a continuous aluminum ribbon "bonding strip" as part
of it's spec. It has a plastic wrap instead of the raffia or paper -
which is the most obvious difference at first glance.

I DO get it.
You just either don't read too good or you want to be miserable.

What you don't seem to get, is that cable evolves. Earlier AC or later
AC are still AC, though their properties have evolved over the years.
There is no comparison between AC cable and BX cable, because they are
one in the same.
You don't get it.BX is not made any more. It was a brand of AC cable
- the first.

Just because a Chow is a dog doesn't mean all dogs are Chows.BX was
early AC, but not all AC is BX.
I don't think ANY "genuine" BX was made with anything but galvanized
steel, rubber insulation, and Raffia or paper wrap. And no ground.
THAT cable does not meet current code, and has not been made for about
50 years.

On 12/5/2011 8:31 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 05 Dec 2011 16:45:03 -0600, The Daring Dufas
wrote:

On 12/5/2011 12:45 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 05 Dec 2011 12:27:36 -0600, The Daring Dufas
wrote:

On 12/5/2011 11:28 AM, wrote:
On Mon, 05 Dec 2011 09:23:19 -0600, The Daring Dufas
wrote:

On 12/5/2011 6:08 AM, Doug Miller wrote:
On 12/5/2011 1:18 AM, The Daring Dufas wrote:

BX cable was outlawed years ago for safety reasons and the replacement
is MC cable.

Nonsense. Armored cable (BX) is still permitted under the 2011 NEC. See
Article 320.

Perhaps it's just in my area, it's not allowed around here and none of
the supply houses have carried BX for years. The only thing you will
find at the big box stores and electrical suppliers is MC cable. The old
BX with paper insulation vanished from the supply chain a long time ago.
I use Greenfield conduit all the time on commercial refrigeration
equipment and for any application where I need to protect loose wires of
any kind for short distances. If I use Greenfield/flexible metal conduit
for a longer run, I add a ground wire and bonding grounds at either end
for my peace of mind and the electrical inspectors happiness. ^_^

TDD

They still make AC cable, it still has paper wrapping the conductors
and it is legal everywhere unless you have an AHJ that writes his own
rules.

Most of the time you will see it in HCF (hospital) style because it is
the only legal cable in patient care facilities.

The only ramification of the paper wrapper is that makes this a dry
location only wiring method. You also need the red insulating bushings
on AC cable. They are not required on MC if you use the appropriate
connector.

http://www.afcweb.com/pdf_2011/p32_ac.pdf

Here in Birmingham the city electrical code is stricter than in the
county for some reason and often stricter than the NEC. I'm telling
you the truth about BX around here, I haven't seen any new BX in years.

TDD

Do you work around hospitals? That is the usual place you see AC cable
these days.

I've seen MC in hospitals that had different color paint but didn't see
any of the ends so I could see if it was really BX. I just called one
of the largest electrical suppliers in the state and the city sales guy
told me that BX is no longer sold by them and hasn't been in inventory
for a very long time. As far as armored cable goes, it's all over the
place except in the form of BX.

TDD

I bet that "MC" was HCF grade AC cable. MC is not legal for patient
care areas.

A lot of electrical parts come in hospital grade. Heck, a hospital grade
duplex receptacle can cost more than $20.00 where a good contractor
grade may be only a few bucks and a cheap one that meets
specs may cost 59 cents. It's been years since I installed any wiring
in patient rooms in a hospital and that was an Army Core of Engineers
project, everything there was in conduit. The only flex of any kind
was on the light fixtures and I don't recall exactly what type. The
one thing I am sure of is there was no "BX" cable installed on that job. ^_^

TDD

On 12/5/2011 10:59 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 05 Dec 2011 22:28:46 -0500, wrote:

On 12/5/2011 8:49 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 05 Dec 2011 18:31:59 -0500, wrote:

On 12/5/2011 5:43 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 05 Dec 2011 07:08:43 -0500, Doug Miller
wrote:

On 12/5/2011 1:18 AM, The Daring Dufas wrote:

BX cable was outlawed years ago for safety reasons and the replacement
is MC cable.

Nonsense. Armored cable (BX) is still permitted under the 2011 NEC. See
Article 320.
No, the "original" BX is not only not allowed by code, it has not
been made (at least in North America) for over a decade. TypeAC and MC
cable is the replacement, and is almost universally ALUMINUM, not
galvanized steel.
Type AC cable will always have a 16 AWG aluminum bond wire under the
armor, and the individual insulated conductors will each have a kraft
paper wrap.
Type MC cable does not contain either of these items and has an
overall plastic wrap over the insulated
circuit conductors and a continuous aluminum bonding strip..

Claire still doesn't get that there has never been a type "BX" cable
recognized by the NEC. Since it's never been a NEC designation, how can
it be not allowed
OK - let's put it THIS way.
The earlier style AC is no longer allowed by code. ALL of the original
"BX" brand cable was the "early" AC type, although not all early "AC"
cable was "BX"
The early "AC" or "BX" cable was galvanized steel wrapped, rubber
insulated, raffia wrapped, with no bare or insulated ground, and no
bonding strip. This cable has not passed code for over a decade, and
has not been made for about half a century.

There are now 2 BASIC types of spiral wound armored cable in use in
North America. There is type "AC" - aluminum sheathed, with either
bare or green insulated ground and no bonding ribbon - with
thermoplastic or PVC insulation and paper or raffia wrap.
There is also type "MC", which does not require the bare or insulated
ground for most applications - but is also available with an insulated
ground - and has a continuous aluminum ribbon "bonding strip" as part
of it's spec. It has a plastic wrap instead of the raffia or paper -
which is the most obvious difference at first glance.

I DO get it.
You just either don't read too good or you want to be miserable.

What you don't seem to get, is that cable evolves. Earlier AC or later
AC are still AC, though their properties have evolved over the years.
There is no comparison between AC cable and BX cable, because they are
one in the same.
You don't get it.BX is not made any more. It was a brand of AC cable
- the first.

Just because a Chow is a dog doesn't mean all dogs are Chows.BX was
early AC, but not all AC is BX.
I don't think ANY "genuine" BX was made with anything but galvanized
steel, rubber insulation, and Raffia or paper wrap. And no ground.
THAT cable does not meet current code, and has not been made for about
50 years.

I don't know when GE stopped making cable, however your comparison
between BX and AC is ridiculous. GE began making BX cable in 1899. At
the time there was no Nec designation. In 1932 BX and any other similar
cable regardless of who the manufacturer was, was officially designated
as type AC. From that point AC type cables were made differently by a
variety of manufacturers and every one of them changed how the cable was
made through the years depending upon electric code changes, including
the "bonding" strip required in 1959, which you repeatedly and
incorrectly keep calling a ground.

On Tue, 06 Dec 2011 07:19:26 -0500, RBM wrote:

On 12/5/2011 10:59 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 05 Dec 2011 22:28:46 -0500, wrote:

On 12/5/2011 8:49 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 05 Dec 2011 18:31:59 -0500, wrote:

On 12/5/2011 5:43 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 05 Dec 2011 07:08:43 -0500, Doug Miller
wrote:

On 12/5/2011 1:18 AM, The Daring Dufas wrote:

BX cable was outlawed years ago for safety reasons and the replacement
is MC cable.

Nonsense. Armored cable (BX) is still permitted under the 2011 NEC. See
Article 320.
No, the "original" BX is not only not allowed by code, it has not
been made (at least in North America) for over a decade. TypeAC and MC
cable is the replacement, and is almost universally ALUMINUM, not
galvanized steel.
Type AC cable will always have a 16 AWG aluminum bond wire under the
armor, and the individual insulated conductors will each have a kraft
paper wrap.
Type MC cable does not contain either of these items and has an
overall plastic wrap over the insulated
circuit conductors and a continuous aluminum bonding strip..

Claire still doesn't get that there has never been a type "BX" cable
recognized by the NEC. Since it's never been a NEC designation, how can
it be not allowed
OK - let's put it THIS way.
The earlier style AC is no longer allowed by code. ALL of the original
"BX" brand cable was the "early" AC type, although not all early "AC"
cable was "BX"
The early "AC" or "BX" cable was galvanized steel wrapped, rubber
insulated, raffia wrapped, with no bare or insulated ground, and no
bonding strip. This cable has not passed code for over a decade, and
has not been made for about half a century.

There are now 2 BASIC types of spiral wound armored cable in use in
North America. There is type "AC" - aluminum sheathed, with either
bare or green insulated ground and no bonding ribbon - with
thermoplastic or PVC insulation and paper or raffia wrap.
There is also type "MC", which does not require the bare or insulated
ground for most applications - but is also available with an insulated
ground - and has a continuous aluminum ribbon "bonding strip" as part
of it's spec. It has a plastic wrap instead of the raffia or paper -
which is the most obvious difference at first glance.

I DO get it.
You just either don't read too good or you want to be miserable.

What you don't seem to get, is that cable evolves. Earlier AC or later
AC are still AC, though their properties have evolved over the years.
There is no comparison between AC cable and BX cable, because they are
one in the same.
You don't get it.BX is not made any more. It was a brand of AC cable
- the first.

Just because a Chow is a dog doesn't mean all dogs are Chows.BX was
early AC, but not all AC is BX.
I don't think ANY "genuine" BX was made with anything but galvanized
steel, rubber insulation, and Raffia or paper wrap. And no ground.
THAT cable does not meet current code, and has not been made for about
50 years.

I don't know when GE stopped making cable, however your comparison
between BX and AC is ridiculous. GE began making BX cable in 1899. At
the time there was no Nec designation. In 1932 BX and any other similar
cable regardless of who the manufacturer was, was officially designated
as type AC. From that point AC type cables were made differently by a
variety of manufacturers and every one of them changed how the cable was
made through the years depending upon electric code changes, including
the "bonding" strip required in 1959, which you repeatedly and
incorrectly keep calling a ground.

I Incorrectly call it a ground?? Check your facts. I have always
called it a bonding strip, which, by the way ALLOWS the metallic
sheath to be used as a ground. And that bonding strip is NOT part of
the "AC" spec, it is part of the "MC" spec.
Type "MC" armoured cable can use the sheath as a ground, while type
"AC" cable requires the additional bare or insulated ground. The bare
ground in current type"ac" cable is generally made of aluminum, and is
actually REQUIRED to be aluminum under at least one part of the code,
so most companies don't make one with a bare copper ground.

The GROUND is a ROUND WIRE - the "bonding strip" is a flat ribbon.
I am NOT confused. But someone is.

On 12/6/2011 5:16 PM, wrote:
On Tue, 06 Dec 2011 07:19:26 -0500, wrote:

On 12/5/2011 10:59 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 05 Dec 2011 22:28:46 -0500, wrote:

On 12/5/2011 8:49 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 05 Dec 2011 18:31:59 -0500, wrote:

On 12/5/2011 5:43 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 05 Dec 2011 07:08:43 -0500, Doug Miller
wrote:

On 12/5/2011 1:18 AM, The Daring Dufas wrote:

BX cable was outlawed years ago for safety reasons and the replacement
is MC cable.

Nonsense. Armored cable (BX) is still permitted under the 2011 NEC. See
Article 320.
No, the "original" BX is not only not allowed by code, it has not
been made (at least in North America) for over a decade. TypeAC and MC
cable is the replacement, and is almost universally ALUMINUM, not
galvanized steel.
Type AC cable will always have a 16 AWG aluminum bond wire under the
armor, and the individual insulated conductors will each have a kraft
paper wrap.
Type MC cable does not contain either of these items and has an
overall plastic wrap over the insulated
circuit conductors and a continuous aluminum bonding strip..

Claire still doesn't get that there has never been a type "BX" cable
recognized by the NEC. Since it's never been a NEC designation, how can
it be not allowed
OK - let's put it THIS way.
The earlier style AC is no longer allowed by code. ALL of the original
"BX" brand cable was the "early" AC type, although not all early "AC"
cable was "BX"
The early "AC" or "BX" cable was galvanized steel wrapped, rubber
insulated, raffia wrapped, with no bare or insulated ground, and no
bonding strip. This cable has not passed code for over a decade, and
has not been made for about half a century.

There are now 2 BASIC types of spiral wound armored cable in use in
North America. There is type "AC" - aluminum sheathed, with either
bare or green insulated ground and no bonding ribbon - with
thermoplastic or PVC insulation and paper or raffia wrap.
There is also type "MC", which does not require the bare or insulated
ground for most applications - but is also available with an insulated
ground - and has a continuous aluminum ribbon "bonding strip" as part
of it's spec. It has a plastic wrap instead of the raffia or paper -
which is the most obvious difference at first glance.

I DO get it.
You just either don't read too good or you want to be miserable.

What you don't seem to get, is that cable evolves. Earlier AC or later
AC are still AC, though their properties have evolved over the years.
There is no comparison between AC cable and BX cable, because they are
one in the same.
You don't get it.BX is not made any more. It was a brand of AC cable
- the first.

Just because a Chow is a dog doesn't mean all dogs are Chows.BX was
early AC, but not all AC is BX.
I don't think ANY "genuine" BX was made with anything but galvanized
steel, rubber insulation, and Raffia or paper wrap. And no ground.
THAT cable does not meet current code, and has not been made for about
50 years.

I don't know when GE stopped making cable, however your comparison
between BX and AC is ridiculous. GE began making BX cable in 1899. At
the time there was no Nec designation. In 1932 BX and any other similar
cable regardless of who the manufacturer was, was officially designated
as type AC. From that point AC type cables were made differently by a
variety of manufacturers and every one of them changed how the cable was
made through the years depending upon electric code changes, including
the "bonding" strip required in 1959, which you repeatedly and
incorrectly keep calling a ground.

I Incorrectly call it a ground?? Check your facts. I have always
called it a bonding strip, which, by the way ALLOWS the metallic
sheath to be used as a ground. And that bonding strip is NOT part of
the "AC" spec, it is part of the "MC" spec.
Type "MC" armoured cable can use the sheath as a ground, while type
"AC" cable requires the additional bare or insulated ground. The bare
ground in current type"ac" cable is generally made of aluminum, and is
actually REQUIRED to be aluminum under at least one part of the code,
so most companies don't make one with a bare copper ground.

The GROUND is a ROUND WIRE - the "bonding strip" is a flat ribbon.
I am NOT confused. But someone is.

I would suggest, before you spew your usual nonsense, at the very least
get a freaking code book and look up what you think you know something
about. You'd look less like a moron. Try Nec 320.100 AC cable construction

On 12/6/2011 6:06 PM, RBM wrote:

I would suggest, before you spew your usual nonsense, at the very least
get a freaking code book and look up what you think you know something
about. You'd look less like a moron. Try Nec 320.100 AC cable construction

Actually, I think the *first* step that "clare" needs to take to avoid
looking like a moron is to stop assuming that the U.S. NEC is identical
to the Canadian CEC.

On Tue, 06 Dec 2011 18:54:44 -0500, wrote:

On Tue, 06 Dec 2011 17:16:28 -0500, wrote:

I Incorrectly call it a ground?? Check your facts. I have always
called it a bonding strip, which, by the way ALLOWS the metallic
sheath to be used as a ground. And that bonding strip is NOT part of
the "AC" spec, it is part of the "MC" spec.
Type "MC" armoured cable can use the sheath as a ground, while type
"AC" cable requires the additional bare or insulated ground.


You have that backward MC is the one that needs a ground wire unless
it is the new "Smart MC" from Southwire. AC can always use the armor
as ground.

From the NEC
320.100 Construction.
Type AC cable shall have an armor of flexible metal tape and shall
have an internal bonding strip of copper or aluminum in intimate
contact with the armor for its entire length.

Handbook commentary
The armor of Type AC cable is recognized as an equipment grounding
conductor by 250.118. The required internal bonding strip can be
simply cut off at the termination of the armored cable, or it can be
bent back on the armor. It is not necessary to connect it to an
equipment grounding terminal. It reduces the inductive reactance of
the spiral armor and increases the armor's effectiveness as an
equipment ground. Many installers use this strip to help prevent the
insulating (anti-short) bushing required by 320.40 (the €œred head€�)
from falling out during rough wiring.
And the antishort is not required with the proper connectors on the
cable with the aluminum bond strip.

On 12/6/2011 7:25 PM, wrote:
On Tue, 06 Dec 2011 18:54:44 -0500, wrote:

On Tue, 06 Dec 2011 17:16:28 -0500, wrote:

I Incorrectly call it a ground?? Check your facts. I have always
called it a bonding strip, which, by the way ALLOWS the metallic
sheath to be used as a ground. And that bonding strip is NOT part of
the "AC" spec, it is part of the "MC" spec.
Type "MC" armoured cable can use the sheath as a ground, while type
"AC" cable requires the additional bare or insulated ground.


You have that backward MC is the one that needs a ground wire unless
it is the new "Smart MC" from Southwire. AC can always use the armor
as ground.

From the NEC
320.100 Construction.
Type AC cable shall have an armor of flexible metal tape and shall
have an internal bonding strip of copper or aluminum in intimate
contact with the armor for its entire length.

Handbook commentary
The armor of Type AC cable is recognized as an equipment grounding
conductor by 250.118. The required internal bonding strip can be
simply cut off at the termination of the armored cable, or it can be
bent back on the armor. It is not necessary to connect it to an
equipment grounding terminal. It reduces the inductive reactance of
the spiral armor and increases the armor's effectiveness as an
equipment ground. Many installers use this strip to help prevent the
insulating (anti-short) bushing required by 320.40 (the €œred head€�)
from falling out during rough wiring.

And the antishort is not required with the proper connectors on the
cable with the aluminum bond strip.

Do you have a link to a "proper" type AC connector for the US that does
not need an antishort?

--
bud--

On Wed, 07 Dec 2011 09:02:36 -0600, bud--
wrote:

On 12/6/2011 7:25 PM, wrote:
On Tue, 06 Dec 2011 18:54:44 -0500, wrote:

On Tue, 06 Dec 2011 17:16:28 -0500, wrote:

I Incorrectly call it a ground?? Check your facts. I have always
called it a bonding strip, which, by the way ALLOWS the metallic
sheath to be used as a ground. And that bonding strip is NOT part of
the "AC" spec, it is part of the "MC" spec.
Type "MC" armoured cable can use the sheath as a ground, while type
"AC" cable requires the additional bare or insulated ground.


You have that backward MC is the one that needs a ground wire unless
it is the new "Smart MC" from Southwire. AC can always use the armor
as ground.

From the NEC
320.100 Construction.
Type AC cable shall have an armor of flexible metal tape and shall
have an internal bonding strip of copper or aluminum in intimate
contact with the armor for its entire length.

Handbook commentary
The armor of Type AC cable is recognized as an equipment grounding
conductor by 250.118. The required internal bonding strip can be
simply cut off at the termination of the armored cable, or it can be
bent back on the armor. It is not necessary to connect it to an
equipment grounding terminal. It reduces the inductive reactance of
the spiral armor and increases the armor's effectiveness as an
equipment ground. Many installers use this strip to help prevent the
insulating (anti-short) bushing required by 320.40 (the €œred head€�)
from falling out during rough wiring.

And the antishort is not required with the proper connectors on the
cable with the aluminum bond strip.

Do you have a link to a "proper" type AC connector for the US that does
not need an antishort?


OK - you may have gotten me mixed up - AC to MC.

AC has the bond strip and the sheath can be used as safety ground.
MC does not have the bond strip and requires a separate safety ground
(bare or insulated)

An AC cable an antishort is required, while on MC it is NOT required
by NEC if approved connectors are used. See:
http://www.kaf-tech.com/pdf/KT0609_pocket_guide.pdf, particulary page
13.
It states "Insert the cable into the connector and secure the
connector into the box. Be sure that the anti-short bushing
is plainly visible in the connector for easy inspection. The
same procedure is followed for MC cable with the exception
that there is no bonding wire. Although anti-short bushings
are only required by the NEC for AC cable, most
manufacturers recommend their use with MC cable."

On 12/7/2011 10:02 AM, bud-- wrote:
On 12/6/2011 7:25 PM, wrote:
On Tue, 06 Dec 2011 18:54:44 -0500, wrote:

On Tue, 06 Dec 2011 17:16:28 -0500, wrote:

I Incorrectly call it a ground?? Check your facts. I have always
called it a bonding strip, which, by the way ALLOWS the metallic
sheath to be used as a ground. And that bonding strip is NOT part of
the "AC" spec, it is part of the "MC" spec.
Type "MC" armoured cable can use the sheath as a ground, while type
"AC" cable requires the additional bare or insulated ground.


You have that backward MC is the one that needs a ground wire unless
it is the new "Smart MC" from Southwire. AC can always use the armor
as ground.

From the NEC
320.100 Construction.
Type AC cable shall have an armor of flexible metal tape and shall
have an internal bonding strip of copper or aluminum in intimate
contact with the armor for its entire length.

Handbook commentary
The armor of Type AC cable is recognized as an equipment grounding
conductor by 250.118. The required internal bonding strip can be
simply cut off at the termination of the armored cable, or it can be
bent back on the armor. It is not necessary to connect it to an
equipment grounding terminal. It reduces the inductive reactance of
the spiral armor and increases the armor's effectiveness as an
equipment ground. Many installers use this strip to help prevent the
insulating (anti-short) bushing required by 320.40 (the €œred head€�)
from falling out during rough wiring.

And the antishort is not required with the proper connectors on the
cable with the aluminum bond strip.

Do you have a link to a "proper" type AC connector for the US that does
not need an antishort?

(LOL) YOU Bud, may have gotten Clare mixed up. Clare seems very
proficient as cutting and pasting , but seems to have little
understanding of the actual hardware or it's applications.

On 12/7/2011 4:18 PM, wrote:
On Wed, 07 Dec 2011 09:02:36 -0600,
wrote:

On 12/6/2011 7:25 PM, wrote:
On Tue, 06 Dec 2011 18:54:44 -0500, wrote:

On Tue, 06 Dec 2011 17:16:28 -0500, wrote:

I Incorrectly call it a ground?? Check your facts. I have always
called it a bonding strip, which, by the way ALLOWS the metallic
sheath to be used as a ground. And that bonding strip is NOT part of
the "AC" spec, it is part of the "MC" spec.
Type "MC" armoured cable can use the sheath as a ground, while type
"AC" cable requires the additional bare or insulated ground.


You have that backward MC is the one that needs a ground wire unless
it is the new "Smart MC" from Southwire. AC can always use the armor
as ground.

From the NEC
320.100 Construction.
Type AC cable shall have an armor of flexible metal tape and shall
have an internal bonding strip of copper or aluminum in intimate
contact with the armor for its entire length.

Handbook commentary
The armor of Type AC cable is recognized as an equipment grounding
conductor by 250.118. The required internal bonding strip can be
simply cut off at the termination of the armored cable, or it can be
bent back on the armor. It is not necessary to connect it to an
equipment grounding terminal. It reduces the inductive reactance of
the spiral armor and increases the armor's effectiveness as an
equipment ground. Many installers use this strip to help prevent the
insulating (anti-short) bushing required by 320.40 (the €œred head€�)
from falling out during rough wiring.

And the antishort is not required with the proper connectors on the
cable with the aluminum bond strip.

Do you have a link to a "proper" type AC connector for the US that does
not need an antishort?


OK - you may have gotten me mixed up - AC to MC.

AC has the bond strip and the sheath can be used as safety ground.
MC does not have the bond strip and requires a separate safety ground
(bare or insulated)

An AC cable an antishort is required, while on MC it is NOT required
by NEC if approved connectors are used. See:
http://www.kaf-tech.com/pdf/KT0609_pocket_guide.pdf, particulary page
13.
It states "Insert the cable into the connector and secure the
connector into the box. Be sure that the anti-short bushing
is plainly visible in the connector for easy inspection. The
same procedure is followed for MC cable with the exception
that there is no bonding wire. Although anti-short bushings
are only required by the NEC for AC cable, most
manufacturers recommend their use with MC cable."

That link was to a very good source and a copy of the brochure went into
my electrical reference data base. Hopefully, this thread can
now die happy. ^_^

TDD

http://www.kaf-tech.com/pdf/KT0609_pocket_guide.pdf, particulary page
13.
It states "Insert the cable into the connector and secure the
connector into the box. Be sure that the anti-short bushing
is plainly visible in the connector for easy inspection. The
same procedure is followed for MC cable with the exception
that there is no bonding wire. Although anti-short bushings
are only required by the NEC for AC cable, most
manufacturers recommend their use with MC cable."

That link was to a very good source and a copy of the brochure went into
my electrical reference data base. Hopefully, this thread can
now die happy. ^_^

TDD

As the OP, I want to say Thanks to all for the lively discussion on the
cable types. I have learned a lot. Suffice it to say that there are a lot of
different types of cable that have been made over the years by different
companies and referred to as BX.

R

On 12/7/2011 9:22 PM, Roanin wrote:
http://www.kaf-tech.com/pdf/KT0609_pocket_guide.pdf, particulary page
13.
It states "Insert the cable into the connector and secure the
connector into the box. Be sure that the anti-short bushing
is plainly visible in the connector for easy inspection. The
same procedure is followed for MC cable with the exception
that there is no bonding wire. Although anti-short bushings
are only required by the NEC for AC cable, most
manufacturers recommend their use with MC cable."

That link was to a very good source and a copy of the brochure went into
my electrical reference data base. Hopefully, this thread can
now die happy. ^_^

TDD

As the OP, I want to say Thanks to all for the lively discussion on the
cable types. I have learned a lot. Suffice it to say that there are a lot of
different types of cable that have been made over the years by different
companies and referred to as BX.

R


In your quest for the meaning of life, you never know where it may take
you. ^_^

TDD