http://communities.washingtontimes.c...anol-disaster/

or

http://preview.tinyurl.com/c72w8cn

Blighted harvest: The American corn ethanol disaster

"Perhaps the most devastating effect of the ethanol industry is the
destruction of the small engine. An in depth analysis shows that when a
gasohol mixture contains more than 0.5% water (which can easily
accumulate due to humidity on a hot day), the ethanol starts to
decompose, forming a single phase separation layer of ethanol and water
at the bottom of a fuel tank. Because this small layer of ethanol and
water does not support combustion, it gets sucked into the engine,
clogging up and permanently destroying the carburetor.

Billions of dollars have been spent in the past few years on countless
lawn mowers, weed eaters/trimmers, blowers, lawn equipment, boat, and
other small engines that have all failed due to ethanol corruption.
While this dynamic has provided a huge boost to the small engine
creation and repair industries, it has consistently put consumers at a
severe disadvantage.

For example, “water damage” of a carburetor is no longer covered by
product warranties or protection (insurance) plans on lawn equipment.
This failure is specifically considered the fault of the owner, even
when the product recommends using E15. "

Ted wrote:

Because this small layer of ethanol and water does not support
combustion, it gets sucked into the engine, clogging up and
permanently destroying the carburetor.

I say this is urban myth or just plain wrong.

Water is not going to "clog" up the carburetor, and certainly not
"permanently" destroy it.

On 11/11/2011 8:24 PM, Home Guy wrote:
Ted wrote:

Because this small layer of ethanol and water does not support
combustion, it gets sucked into the engine, clogging up and
permanently destroying the carburetor.

I say this is urban myth or just plain wrong.

Water is not going to "clog" up the carburetor, and certainly not
"permanently" destroy it.

water damage is not immediate but it will corrode the insides of the
carburator over time

briggs and stratten web site has some videos and photos of the damage
ethanol causes

i found that the local airport sells mogas that is ethanol-free so i buy
my lawnmower/chainsaw gas there

On Nov 11, 9:26*pm, mike west ""mike.west\"@comcast,net" wrote:
On 11/11/2011 8:24 PM, Home Guy wrote:

Ted wrote:

Because this small layer of ethanol and water does not support
combustion, it gets sucked into the engine, clogging up and
permanently destroying the carburetor.

I say this is urban myth or just plain wrong.

Water is not going to "clog" up the carburetor, and certainly not
"permanently" destroy it.

water damage is not immediate but it will corrode the insides of the
carburator over time

briggs and stratten web site has some videos and photos of the damage
ethanol causes

i found that the local airport sells mogas that is ethanol-free so i buy
my lawnmower/chainsaw gas there

the small engine companies should be required to redesgn their
products to use high ethanol content fuel. just like they did to run
on unleaded fuel

bob haller wrote:

the small engine companies should be required to redesgn their
products to use high ethanol content fuel. just like they did
to run on unleaded fuel

But it's not the ethanol that's the problem - it's the water in the tank
(supposedly according to the OP).

I thought that most small engines have a fine mesh screen (steel or
nylon / plastic?) either in the tank or somewhere in the fuel line that
is too fine to allow water to pass through. ?

You sound like a big government liberal. Is that your answer
to everything? The government should require companies to do
what you want them to do? Take your goose stepping tyranny
and go to Europe or England or some place socialist.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"bob haller" wrote in message
...


i found that the local airport sells mogas that is
ethanol-free so i buy
my lawnmower/chainsaw gas there

the small engine companies should be required to redesgn
their
products to use high ethanol content fuel. just like they
did to run
on unleaded fuel

On Fri, 11 Nov 2011 18:36:14 -0800 (PST), bob haller
wrote:

On Nov 11, 9:26Â*pm, mike west ""mike.west\"@comcast,net" wrote:
On 11/11/2011 8:24 PM, Home Guy wrote:

Ted wrote:

Because this small layer of ethanol and water does not support
combustion, it gets sucked into the engine, clogging up and
permanently destroying the carburetor.

I say this is urban myth or just plain wrong.

Water is not going to "clog" up the carburetor, and certainly not
"permanently" destroy it.

water damage is not immediate but it will corrode the insides of the
carburator over time

briggs and stratten web site has some videos and photos of the damage
ethanol causes

i found that the local airport sells mogas that is ethanol-free so i buy
my lawnmower/chainsaw gas there

the small engine companies should be required to redesgn their
products to use high ethanol content fuel. just like they did to run
on unleaded fuel
They actually made changes to accommodate lead free fuel????
The GOOD engines always did have hardened valve seats, and the cheap
crap still does not.
Emission controlled engines (fixed jet) can NOT adapt to differing
ethanol concentrations, even if the carb was made to be resistant to
ethanol/water damage. That's why cars are electronically controlled
and fuel injected. Feedback carbs worked kinda-half - and even that is
too complex for the average "small engine"

On Fri, 11 Nov 2011 21:58:13 -0500, "Stormin Mormon"
wrote:

You sound like a big government liberal. Is that your answer
to everything? The government should require companies to do
what you want them to do? Take your goose stepping tyranny
and go to Europe or England or some place socialist.
Better yet - the government should get out of the corn support
business and forget about mandating fuel changes they know nothing
about. Corn likker should be used for keeping politicians enebriated
to the point they are totally HARMLESS, not just useless.
Perhaps then they'd have a suppressed libido that would keeep them out
of trouble as a bonus.

You don't write like a Canadian.eh? You write more like a
damn Yankee. Good on you!

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


wrote in message
...

On Fri, 11 Nov 2011 21:58:13 -0500, "Stormin Mormon"
wrote:

You sound like a big government liberal. Is that your
answer
to everything? The government should require companies to
do
what you want them to do? Take your goose stepping tyranny
and go to Europe or England or some place socialist.

Better yet - the government should get out of the corn
support
business and forget about mandating fuel changes they know
nothing
about. Corn likker should be used for keeping politicians
enebriated
to the point they are totally HARMLESS, not just useless.
Perhaps then they'd have a suppressed libido that would
keeep them out
of trouble as a bonus.

On 11/11/11 10:10 pm, wrote:

the small engine companies should be required to redesgn their
products to use high ethanol content fuel. just like they did to run
on unleaded fuel

They actually made changes to accommodate lead free fuel????
The GOOD engines always did have hardened valve seats, and the cheap
crap still does not.
Emission controlled engines (fixed jet) can NOT adapt to differing
ethanol concentrations, even if the carb was made to be resistant to
ethanol/water damage. That's why cars are electronically controlled
and fuel injected. Feedback carbs worked kinda-half - and even that is
too complex for the average "small engine"

Fifty years ago in UK there was a 5%-alcohol gasoline called "Cleveland
Distol," which I often used in my motorcycle. The carburetor was an Amal
with many different sizes of main jet available, but I never heard never
any suggestion that a different size jet was needed for that fuel.

People have mentioned the water problem. At that time many motorcycle
enthusiasts (I don't know about car enthusiasts) were experimenting with
water injection, but I think that it might have been injected between
the carburetor and the inlet manifold.

Perce

On Fri, 11 Nov 2011 22:20:37 -0500, "Stormin Mormon"
wrote:

You don't write like a Canadian.eh? You write more like a
damn Yankee. Good on you!
Lived all my life south of the 49th.

On 11/11/2011 9:48 PM, Home Guy wrote:
bob haller wrote:

the small engine companies should be required to redesgn their
products to use high ethanol content fuel. just like they did
to run on unleaded fuel

But it's not the ethanol that's the problem - it's the water in the tank
(supposedly according to the OP).

I thought that most small engines have a fine mesh screen (steel or
nylon / plastic?) either in the tank or somewhere in the fuel line that
is too fine to allow water to pass through. ?

Good luck with that one. Water molecules are pretty small, far smaller
than hexane and heptane molecules (which are the principal constituents
of gasoline). Any filter that is too fine to let a water molecule
through sure as heck isn't going to let gasoline or ethanol through either.

On Fri, 11 Nov 2011 22:37:06 -0500, "Percival P. Cassidy"
wrote:

On 11/11/11 10:10 pm, wrote:

the small engine companies should be required to redesgn their
products to use high ethanol content fuel. just like they did to run
on unleaded fuel

They actually made changes to accommodate lead free fuel????
The GOOD engines always did have hardened valve seats, and the cheap
crap still does not.
Emission controlled engines (fixed jet) can NOT adapt to differing
ethanol concentrations, even if the carb was made to be resistant to
ethanol/water damage. That's why cars are electronically controlled
and fuel injected. Feedback carbs worked kinda-half - and even that is
too complex for the average "small engine"

Fifty years ago in UK there was a 5%-alcohol gasoline called "Cleveland
Distol," which I often used in my motorcycle. The carburetor was an Amal
with many different sizes of main jet available, but I never heard never
any suggestion that a different size jet was needed for that fuel.

People have mentioned the water problem. At that time many motorcycle
enthusiasts (I don't know about car enthusiasts) were experimenting with
water injection, but I think that it might have been injected between
the carburetor and the inlet manifold.

Perce
5% ethanol is only 1 2.5% difference in energy content.
E10 is 5%. Your old Amal carbed James (or whatever) was likely
running rich to start with, so a 2.5% leaning wasn't serious.

Today's small engines are already running on the lean edge, due to
environmental legislation - so 5% leaning is serious. And yes, water
injection wad between the carb and the INTAKE VALVE - usually in the
manifold - so there was NO water inside the carburetor fuel passages,
float bowl, needle valve, etc.

Water injection was only advantageous in high compression engines, or
when trying to run on low octane fuel. It was insispensible when
running on Kerosene because it kept the combustion temperatures low
enough that the low octane fuel did not detonate.

On Fri, 11 Nov 2011 18:36:14 -0800 (PST), bob haller
wrote:




the small engine companies should be required to redesgn their
products to use high ethanol content fuel. just like they did to run
on unleaded fuel

Newer motors are equipped. Retrofitting all the older units is a
rather daunting task though.

The gas companies and the movement should stop wasting money making
that stuff. It is not efficient. Most cars lose about 2 mpg when the
winter blend hits the market.

bob haller wrote:
On Nov 11, 9:26 pm, mike west ""mike.west\"@comcast,net" wrote:
On 11/11/2011 8:24 PM, Home Guy wrote:

Ted wrote:

Because this small layer of ethanol and water does not support
combustion, it gets sucked into the engine, clogging up and
permanently destroying the carburetor.

I say this is urban myth or just plain wrong.

Water is not going to "clog" up the carburetor, and certainly not
"permanently" destroy it.

water damage is not immediate but it will corrode the insides of the
carburator over time

briggs and stratten web site has some videos and photos of the damage
ethanol causes

i found that the local airport sells mogas that is ethanol-free so i buy
my lawnmower/chainsaw gas there

the small engine companies should be required to redesgn their
products to use high ethanol content fuel. just like they did to run
on unleaded fuel
Let's all toss out our small gas engines and buy new ones. Great idea,
troll!

On Fri, 11 Nov 2011 22:16:47 -0500, wrote:

On Fri, 11 Nov 2011 21:58:13 -0500, "Stormin Mormon"
wrote:

You sound like a big government liberal. Is that your answer
to everything? The government should require companies to do
what you want them to do? Take your goose stepping tyranny
and go to Europe or England or some place socialist.
Better yet - the government should get out of the corn support
business and forget about mandating fuel changes they know nothing
about. Corn likker should be used for keeping politicians enebriated
to the point they are totally HARMLESS, not just useless.
Perhaps then they'd have a suppressed libido that would keeep them out
of trouble as a bonus.

Amen!

So, the gas companies make more money by
selling more gas? I doubt they will act in your
best interest instead of thiers.

As to ethanol, I suspect either someone is
dreaming, or someone is getting a pile of tax
payer dollars in the process.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"Ed Pawlowski" wrote in message
...

The gas companies and the movement should
stop wasting money making that stuff. It is not
efficient. Most cars lose about 2 mpg when the
winter blend hits the market.

So, we can all be energy independant, and
independant of foreign made stuff if we
scrap our Briggs and Stratton engines, and
everyone by chinese made instead?

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"pseudonym" wrote in message
...

the small engine companies should be required to redesgn
their
products to use high ethanol content fuel. just like they
did to run
on unleaded fuel

Let's all toss out our small gas engines and buy new ones.
Great idea,
troll!

wrote:

You don't write like a Canadian.eh? You write more like a
damn Yankee. Good on you!

Lived all my life south of the 49th.

Which includes all of southern Ontario. But I guess that was the point
you're trying to make - eh?

Doug Miller wrote:

I thought that most small engines have a fine mesh screen (steel
or nylon / plastic?) either in the tank or somewhere in the fuel
line that is too fine to allow water to pass through. ?

Good luck with that one. Water molecules are pretty small, far
smaller than hexane and heptane molecules

Are you considering surface tension in your comment?

Can I get an A..... oh, wait, I already got one. Preach it,
brother!

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


wrote in message
...
On Fri, 11 Nov 2011 22:16:47 -0500,
wrote:

On Fri, 11 Nov 2011 21:58:13 -0500, "Stormin Mormon"
wrote:

You sound like a big government liberal. Is that your
answer
to everything? The government should require companies to
do
what you want them to do? Take your goose stepping tyranny
and go to Europe or England or some place socialist.
Better yet - the government should get out of the corn
support
business and forget about mandating fuel changes they know
nothing
about. Corn likker should be used for keeping politicians
enebriated
to the point they are totally HARMLESS, not just useless.
Perhaps then they'd have a suppressed libido that would
keeep them out
of trouble as a bonus.

Amen!

Excellent point, Stormin!

From
http://www.desmoinesregister.com/art...15-study-finds

Boat engines damaged by use of E15, study finds

WASHINGTON -- A blend of 15 percent ethanol and gasoline caused so much
damage to boat engines during a government-funded study that the testing
of two of three motor types ended early.

The ethanol made the engines run hotter, and a rod bearing broke,
destroying a 200-horsepower engine that was being tested, lawmakers were
told Wednesday. Testing of a 300-horsepower version had to be shut down
early when its valves cracked or broke. A third, smaller engine finished
the test but also had problems.


On 11/12/2011 8:00 AM, Stormin Mormon wrote:
So, we can all be energy independant, and
independant of foreign made stuff if we
scrap our Briggs and Stratton engines, and
everyone by chinese made instead?

-- Christopher A. Young Learn more about Jesus www.lds.org . "pseudonym"
wrote in message
...

the small engine companies should be required to redesgn
their
products to use high ethanol content fuel. just like they
did to run
on unleaded fuel
Let's all toss out our small gas engines and buy new ones.
Great idea,
troll!

In ,
Home Guy typed:
bob haller wrote:

the small engine companies should be required to redesgn
their products to use high ethanol content fuel. just
like they did to run on unleaded fuel

But it's not the ethanol that's the problem - it's the
water in the tank (supposedly according to the OP).

I thought that most small engines have a fine mesh screen
(steel or nylon / plastic?) either in the tank or
somewhere in the fuel line that is too fine to allow
water to pass through. ?

I've never seen one that didn't.

In ,
Doug Miller typed:
On 11/11/2011 9:48 PM, Home Guy wrote:
bob haller wrote:

the small engine companies should be required to
redesgn their products to use high ethanol content
fuel. just like they did to run on unleaded fuel

But it's not the ethanol that's the problem - it's the
water in the tank (supposedly according to the OP).

I thought that most small engines have a fine mesh
screen (steel or nylon / plastic?) either in the tank or
somewhere in the fuel line that is too fine to allow
water to pass through. ?

Good luck with that one. Water molecules are pretty
small, far smaller than hexane and heptane molecules
(which are the principal constituents of gasoline). Any filter that is too
fine to let a water
molecule through sure as heck isn't going to let gasoline or
ethanol through either.

Yes. It is. Check viscosity & molecular responses to the screen materials.

In ,
Ted typed:
http://communities.washingtontimes.c...anol-disaster/

or

http://preview.tinyurl.com/c72w8cn

Blighted harvest: The American corn ethanol disaster

"Perhaps the most devastating effect of the ethanol
industry is the destruction of the small engine. An in
depth analysis shows that when a gasohol mixture contains
more than 0.5% water (which can easily accumulate due to
humidity on a hot day), the ethanol starts to decompose,
forming a single phase separation layer of ethanol and
water at the bottom of a fuel tank. Because this small
layer of ethanol and water does not support combustion,
it gets sucked into the engine, clogging up and
permanently destroying the carburetor.
Billions of dollars have been spent in the past few years
on countless lawn mowers, weed eaters/trimmers, blowers,
lawn equipment, boat, and other small engines that have
all failed due to ethanol corruption. While this dynamic
has provided a huge boost to the small engine creation
and repair industries, it has consistently put consumers
at a severe disadvantage.
For example, water damage of a carburetor is no longer
covered by product warranties or protection (insurance)
plans on lawn equipment. This failure is specifically
considered the fault of the owner, even when the product
recommends using E15. "

Wives tail: There is no such "scam" to contunue.

"Twayne" wrote in message ...
In ,
Ted typed:
http://communities.washingtontimes.c...anol-disaster/

or

http://preview.tinyurl.com/c72w8cn

Blighted harvest: The American corn ethanol disaster

"Perhaps the most devastating effect of the ethanol
industry is the destruction of the small engine. An in
depth analysis shows that when a gasohol mixture contains
more than 0.5% water (which can easily accumulate due to
humidity on a hot day), the ethanol starts to decompose,
forming a single phase separation layer of ethanol and
water at the bottom of a fuel tank. Because this small
layer of ethanol and water does not support combustion,
it gets sucked into the engine, clogging up and
permanently destroying the carburetor.
Billions of dollars have been spent in the past few years
on countless lawn mowers, weed eaters/trimmers, blowers,
lawn equipment, boat, and other small engines that have
all failed due to ethanol corruption. While this dynamic
has provided a huge boost to the small engine creation
and repair industries, it has consistently put consumers
at a severe disadvantage.
For example, water damage of a carburetor is no longer
covered by product warranties or protection (insurance)
plans on lawn equipment. This failure is specifically
considered the fault of the owner, even when the product
recommends using E15. "

Wives tail: There is no such "scam" to contunue.



I'm thinking Twayne is either a troll or has a vested interest in the corn or ethanol industry.

In eb.com,
Tommy Silva typed:
"Twayne" wrote in message
...
In ,
Ted typed:
http://communities.washingtontimes.c...anol-disaster/

or

http://preview.tinyurl.com/c72w8cn

Blighted harvest: The American corn ethanol disaster

"Perhaps the most devastating effect of the ethanol
industry is the destruction of the small engine. An in
depth analysis shows that when a gasohol mixture
contains more than 0.5% water (which can easily
accumulate due to humidity on a hot day), the ethanol
starts to decompose, forming a single phase separation
layer of ethanol and water at the bottom of a fuel
tank. Because this small layer of ethanol and water
does not support combustion, it gets sucked into the
engine, clogging up and permanently destroying the
carburetor.
Billions of dollars have been spent in the past few
years on countless lawn mowers, weed eaters/trimmers,
blowers, lawn equipment, boat, and other small engines
that have all failed due to ethanol corruption. While
this dynamic has provided a huge boost to the small
engine creation and repair industries, it has
consistently put consumers at a severe disadvantage.
For example, water damage of a carburetor is no longer
covered by product warranties or protection (insurance)
plans on lawn equipment. This failure is specifically
considered the fault of the owner, even when the product
recommends using E15. "

Wives tail: There is no such "scam" to contunue.



I'm thinking Twayne is either a troll or has a vested
interest in the corn or ethanol industry.

Funny; I was thinking you're a parrot without good backing for the tales you
tell. I'm done - go way.

On Sat, 12 Nov 2011 11:40:39 -0500, "Twayne"
wrote:

In ,
Home Guy typed:
bob haller wrote:

the small engine companies should be required to redesgn
their products to use high ethanol content fuel. just
like they did to run on unleaded fuel

But it's not the ethanol that's the problem - it's the
water in the tank (supposedly according to the OP).

I thought that most small engines have a fine mesh screen
(steel or nylon / plastic?) either in the tank or
somewhere in the fuel line that is too fine to allow
water to pass through. ?

I've never seen one that didn't.


I've seen LOTS of them with no screens at all.

On Fri, 11 Nov 2011 20:24:08 -0500, Home Guy wrote:

Ted wrote:

Because this small layer of ethanol and water does not support
combustion, it gets sucked into the engine, clogging up and permanently
destroying the carburetor.

I say this is urban myth or just plain wrong.

Water is not going to "clog" up the carburetor, and certainly not
"permanently" destroy it.

But... water doesn't support combustion, and we all know that the
carburetor is the part of the engine where things go bang! If the water
just sits there because it can't burn, it'll eventually dry out and go
all sticky ;-)

On Sun, 13 Nov 2011 00:05:55 +0000 (UTC), Jules Richardson
wrote:

On Fri, 11 Nov 2011 20:24:08 -0500, Home Guy wrote:

Ted wrote:

Because this small layer of ethanol and water does not support
combustion, it gets sucked into the engine, clogging up and permanently
destroying the carburetor.

I say this is urban myth or just plain wrong.

Water is not going to "clog" up the carburetor, and certainly not
"permanently" destroy it.

But... water doesn't support combustion, and we all know that the
carburetor is the part of the engine where things go bang! If the water
just sits there because it can't burn, it'll eventually dry out and go
all sticky ;-)


Well, TECHNICALLY the "bang" does NOT happen in the carburetor. the
carburetor just mixes fuel with air to be drawn (or forced by
atmospheric pressure, if you want to get picky) into the cyl, where it
goes "bang". And water in a carb, if left long enough CAN
"permanently" damage a carb - or even a gas tank. Water covered by
gasoline cannot evaporate, so the only way out is to rust through the
tank or the steel bowl of a Tecumseh carburetor. In the meantime it
corrodes carburetor jets and often damages float mechanisms as well.
And yes, being covered with gasoline DOES help keep oxygen out of the
process - unless oxygenates in the fuel get involved. I've seen a LOT
of fuel tanks (and oil pans) rust away from inside where water has sat
for a few years. And I've seen a good number of carbs that were
"permanently destroyed " - aka, damaged beyond repair, due to water in
the gas.

Never seen one "permanently damaged" by sugar though.

On 11/12/2011 4:02 PM, Twayne wrote:
In eb.com,
Tommy typed:
wrote in message
...
In ,
typed:
http://communities.washingtontimes.c...anol-disaster/

or

http://preview.tinyurl.com/c72w8cn

Blighted harvest: The American corn ethanol disaster

"Perhaps the most devastating effect of the ethanol
industry is the destruction of the small engine. An in
depth analysis shows that when a gasohol mixture
contains more than 0.5% water (which can easily
accumulate due to humidity on a hot day), the ethanol
starts to decompose, forming a single phase separation
layer of ethanol and water at the bottom of a fuel
tank. Because this small layer of ethanol and water
does not support combustion, it gets sucked into the
engine, clogging up and permanently destroying the
carburetor.
Billions of dollars have been spent in the past few
years on countless lawn mowers, weed eaters/trimmers,
blowers, lawn equipment, boat, and other small engines
that have all failed due to ethanol corruption. While
this dynamic has provided a huge boost to the small
engine creation and repair industries, it has
consistently put consumers at a severe disadvantage.
For example, water damage of a carburetor is no longer
covered by product warranties or protection (insurance)
plans on lawn equipment. This failure is specifically
considered the fault of the owner, even when the product
recommends using E15. "

Wives tail: There is no such "scam" to contunue.



I'm thinking Twayne is either a troll or has a vested
interest in the corn or ethanol industry.

Funny; I was thinking you're a parrot without good backing for the tales you
tell. I'm done - go way.


Are you kidding? You want backing?

google "ethanol engine damage"

On 11/11/2011 2:44 PM, Ted wrote:
http://communities.washingtontimes.c...anol-disaster/


or

http://preview.tinyurl.com/c72w8cn

Blighted harvest: The American corn ethanol disaster

"Perhaps the most devastating effect of the ethanol industry is the
destruction of the small engine. An in depth analysis shows that when a
gasohol mixture contains more than 0.5% water (which can easily
accumulate due to humidity on a hot day), the ethanol starts to
decompose, forming a single phase separation layer of ethanol and water
at the bottom of a fuel tank. Because this small layer of ethanol and
water does not support combustion, it gets sucked into the engine,
clogging up and permanently destroying the carburetor.

Billions of dollars have been spent in the past few years on countless
lawn mowers, weed eaters/trimmers, blowers, lawn equipment, boat, and
other small engines that have all failed due to ethanol corruption.
While this dynamic has provided a huge boost to the small engine
creation and repair industries, it has consistently put consumers at a
severe disadvantage.

For example, “water damage” of a carburetor is no longer covered by
product warranties or protection (insurance) plans on lawn equipment.
This failure is specifically considered the fault of the owner, even
when the product recommends using E15. "


LMAO!!! what a crock!

--
Steve Barker
remove the "not" from my address to email

On Sat, 12 Nov 2011 22:06:49 -0500, clare wrote:

On Sun, 13 Nov 2011 00:05:55 +0000 (UTC), Jules Richardson
wrote:

On Fri, 11 Nov 2011 20:24:08 -0500, Home Guy wrote:

Ted wrote:

Because this small layer of ethanol and water does not support
combustion, it gets sucked into the engine, clogging up and
permanently destroying the carburetor.

I say this is urban myth or just plain wrong.

Water is not going to "clog" up the carburetor, and certainly not
"permanently" destroy it.

But... water doesn't support combustion, and we all know that the
carburetor is the part of the engine where things go bang! If the water
just sits there because it can't burn, it'll eventually dry out and go
all sticky ;-)

Well, TECHNICALLY the "bang" does NOT happen in the carburetor.

Yes, hence the smiley :-) I think whoever wrote the original artice must
have been about 5 and hadn't read "my first book about engines" yet.

(Although I can't decide if the carb should be part of "the engine" or if
its a separate entity, i.e. the fuel metering/delivery mechanism for the
engine - if it's the latter then the author's assertion that water "gets
sucked into the engine" is also wrong in the context of wrecking the carb)

goes "bang". And water in a carb, if left long enough CAN "permanently"
damage a carb - or even a gas tank.

I certainly agree with that - I had a carb on a tractor which had sat for
a couple of decades and water had got into the carb; the float bowl was
completely choked with rust.

I think the process takes quite a long time, but that doesn't mean that
it won't happen.

Never seen one "permanently damaged" by sugar though.

No, nor me - or tried it. I think the theory I heard is that the sugar
glazes the cylinder bores and trashes them, though (rather than it
causing carb failure).

cheers

Jules

Everyone is missing the point here...this corn we hoard to satisfy our
glutenous energy needs could be used to feed people in starving world
communities. How do you think they view us obese, slovenly,
retards...that we have become?

On Sun, 13 Nov 2011 08:32:03 -0800 (PST), Bob_Villa
wrote:

Everyone is missing the point here...this corn we hoard to satisfy our
glutenous energy needs could be used to feed people in starving world
communities. How do you think they view us obese, slovenly,
retards...that we have become?

But we pay farmers not to grow crops. I don't know that the corn is
being taken from the mouths of the poor, but it is used as an excuse
to jack up corn prices.

In article ,
Ed Pawlowski wrote:

On Sun, 13 Nov 2011 08:32:03 -0800 (PST), Bob_Villa
wrote:

Everyone is missing the point here...this corn we hoard to satisfy our
glutenous energy needs could be used to feed people in starving world
communities. How do you think they view us obese, slovenly,
retards...that we have become?

But we pay farmers not to grow crops. I don't know that the corn is
being taken from the mouths of the poor, but it is used as an excuse
to jack up corn prices.

It isn't taking corn from the mouths of the poor. This is feed grain,
mostly. So they are taking beef, etc., out of the mouths of the poor.

--
People thought cybersex was a safe alternative,
until patients started presenting with sexually
acquired carpal tunnel syndrome.-Howard Berkowitz

On Nov 13, 10:57*am, Kurt Ullman wrote:
In article ,
*Ed Pawlowski wrote:

On Sun, 13 Nov 2011 08:32:03 -0800 (PST), Bob_Villa
wrote:

Everyone is missing the point here...this corn we hoard to satisfy our
glutenous energy needs could be used to feed people in starving world
communities. *How do you think they view us obese, slovenly,
retards...that we have become?



It isn't taking corn from the mouths of the poor. This is feed grain,
mostly. So they are taking beef, etc., out of the mouths of the poor.

--

I bought into this BS at first...do you really think you can't make
cornmeal from feed?

On Sun, 13 Nov 2011 11:57:50 -0500, Kurt Ullman
wrote:




But we pay farmers not to grow crops. I don't know that the corn is
being taken from the mouths of the poor, but it is used as an excuse
to jack up corn prices.

It isn't taking corn from the mouths of the poor. This is feed grain,
mostly. So they are taking beef, etc., out of the mouths of the poor.


So the poor did not have porterhouse steaks because of ethanol?

We still grow more crops than we can eat. We export mega-tons of it.
It is a renewable crop that is used rather than let the land sit idle.
I don't buy into the fact that the poor are hurting because of it.
Price manipulation would be more of a problem, sell corn high, people
expect it now.

My concern is the amount of energy used to make it is about a wash.
Maybe better methods will come to pass, but we really need other forms
of energy, more efficient than the present internal combustion engine.

On Sun, 13 Nov 2011 15:52:39 +0000 (UTC), Jules Richardson
wrote:

On Sat, 12 Nov 2011 22:06:49 -0500, clare wrote:

On Sun, 13 Nov 2011 00:05:55 +0000 (UTC), Jules Richardson
wrote:

On Fri, 11 Nov 2011 20:24:08 -0500, Home Guy wrote:

Ted wrote:

Because this small layer of ethanol and water does not support
combustion, it gets sucked into the engine, clogging up and
permanently destroying the carburetor.

I say this is urban myth or just plain wrong.

Water is not going to "clog" up the carburetor, and certainly not
"permanently" destroy it.

But... water doesn't support combustion, and we all know that the
carburetor is the part of the engine where things go bang! If the water
just sits there because it can't burn, it'll eventually dry out and go
all sticky ;-)

Well, TECHNICALLY the "bang" does NOT happen in the carburetor.

Yes, hence the smiley :-) I think whoever wrote the original artice must
have been about 5 and hadn't read "my first book about engines" yet.

(Although I can't decide if the carb should be part of "the engine" or if
its a separate entity, i.e. the fuel metering/delivery mechanism for the
engine - if it's the latter then the author's assertion that water "gets
sucked into the engine" is also wrong in the context of wrecking the carb)

goes "bang". And water in a carb, if left long enough CAN "permanently"
damage a carb - or even a gas tank.

I certainly agree with that - I had a carb on a tractor which had sat for
a couple of decades and water had got into the carb; the float bowl was
completely choked with rust.

I think the process takes quite a long time, but that doesn't mean that
it won't happen.

Never seen one "permanently damaged" by sugar though.

No, nor me - or tried it. I think the theory I heard is that the sugar
glazes the cylinder bores and trashes them, though (rather than it
causing carb failure).

cheers

Jules

Bad theory though, because sugar is insoluble in gasoline and won't
go through the car or injectors. All it does is block filters -
nothing a good sdosing with hot water won't remove.

On Sun, 13 Nov 2011 11:38:09 -0500, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

On Sun, 13 Nov 2011 08:32:03 -0800 (PST), Bob_Villa
wrote:

Everyone is missing the point here...this corn we hoard to satisfy our
glutenous energy needs could be used to feed people in starving world
communities. How do you think they view us obese, slovenly,
retards...that we have become?

But we pay farmers not to grow crops. I don't know that the corn is
being taken from the mouths of the poor, but it is used as an excuse
to jack up corn prices.
Due to supply and demand, the price of all corn products goes up -
and so does the price of every corn replacement - putting ffood prices
in the third world, in particular, out of the reach of many,
financially. If our food prices go up 30% it is an inconvenience. If
you are already spending 60% of your income on food and it goes up 30%
you starve to death.