On Nov 3, 6:02*pm, wrote:


I'd suspect the pressure switch.

BUT....I'd also suggest you closely look at this page I'm giving the
link to below. It runs through troubleshooting the switch as well as
other solutions, troubleshooting efforts.

There are multiple subjects -- not just switches -- on multiple
pages. One of the best "repair manuals" I've found for well owners.

http://www.inspectapedia.com/water/W...rol_Repair.htm

I have a deep well with submercible pump. It's always worked fine,
but lately on occasion it seem to not want to start on occasion.
This is on a farm. When I use small amounts of water in the house it's
fine, but when I fill large livestock water tanks (100 gal or more),
it will run for awhile, then it spits and sputters, the water stops
flowing for a minute or so, and then it begins pumping again.

I have a good knowledge of both plumbing and electrical, but I have
not encountered this problem before.

The pressure tank (bladder type) is fairly new, I replaced it 2 to 3
years ago. And I would think the pump itself must be ok, or it would
not pump at all. Nor do I suspect a wiring short, or the breaker
would blow.

What I am suspecting is possibly the pressure switch having burnt
contacts, or the little hole in the bottom is clogging with crud/rust.
This switch is in a pit and not easy to get to, so before I go down
there, I thought I'd post this on this newsgroup and see what others
have to say about it.

The other thought I have is this: Could the starting capacitor be
getting weak? That's located in a shed, so that is easy to get to,
but before I replace it, I thought I'd ask. It seems to me that
capacitors are either good or bad, and there is no in between with
them, but I know they can change capitance, and wonder if that could
cause the pump to not start at times?????

That's about all there is to the system, so it's got to be one of
those things?

Anyone ever have this problem?

I should note that the pressure switch is set to
Approximately....
ON - 30LBS
OFF - 50 LBS

It appears it will go up to normal (50lbs), but drops down to zero and
stays there for a minute or so before it starts again.

Appreciate all help. Thanks in advance.

In article ,
wrote:

I have a deep well with submercible pump. It's always worked fine,
but lately on occasion it seem to not want to start on occasion.
This is on a farm. When I use small amounts of water in the house it's
fine, but when I fill large livestock water tanks (100 gal or more),
it will run for awhile, then it spits and sputters, the water stops
flowing for a minute or so, and then it begins pumping again.

I have a good knowledge of both plumbing and electrical, but I have
not encountered this problem before.

The pressure tank (bladder type) is fairly new, I replaced it 2 to 3
years ago. And I would think the pump itself must be ok, or it would
not pump at all. Nor do I suspect a wiring short, or the breaker
would blow.

What I am suspecting is possibly the pressure switch having burnt
contacts, or the little hole in the bottom is clogging with crud/rust.
This switch is in a pit and not easy to get to, so before I go down
there, I thought I'd post this on this newsgroup and see what others
have to say about it.

Does it pump air? Could the problem be a lack of water? Plugged
holes in the casing?

The other thought I have is this: Could the starting capacitor be
getting weak? That's located in a shed, so that is easy to get to,
but before I replace it, I thought I'd ask. It seems to me that
capacitors are either good or bad, and there is no in between with
them, but I know they can change capitance, and wonder if that could
cause the pump to not start at times?????

That's about all there is to the system, so it's got to be one of
those things?

Anyone ever have this problem?

I should note that the pressure switch is set to
Approximately....
ON - 30LBS
OFF - 50 LBS

It appears it will go up to normal (50lbs), but drops down to zero and
stays there for a minute or so before it starts again.

Appreciate all help. Thanks in advance.

On Nov 3, 6:02*pm, wrote:
I have a deep well with submercible pump. *It's always worked fine,
but lately on occasion it seem to not want to start on occasion.
This is on a farm. When I use small amounts of water in the house it's
fine, but when I fill large livestock water tanks (100 gal or more),
it will run for awhile, then it spits and sputters, the water stops
flowing for a minute or so, and then it begins pumping again.

I have a good knowledge of both plumbing and electrical, but I have
not encountered this problem before.

The pressure tank (bladder type) is fairly new, I replaced it 2 to 3
years ago. *And I would think the pump itself must be ok, or it would
not pump at all. *Nor do I suspect a wiring short, or the breaker
would blow.

What I am suspecting is possibly the pressure switch having burnt
contacts, or the little hole in the bottom is clogging with crud/rust.
This switch is in a pit and not easy to get to, so before I go down
there, I thought I'd post this on this newsgroup and see what others
have to say about it.

The other thought I have is this: Could the starting capacitor be
getting weak? *That's located in a shed, so that is easy to get to,
but before I replace it, I thought I'd ask. *It seems to me that
capacitors are either good or bad, and there is no in between with
them, but I know they can change capitance, and wonder if that could
cause the pump to not start at times?????

That's about all there is to the system, so it's got to be one of
those things?

Anyone ever have this problem?

I should note that the pressure switch is set to
Approximately....
ON - 30LBS
OFF - 50 LBS

It appears it will go up to normal (50lbs), but drops down to zero and
stays there for a minute or so before it starts again.

Appreciate all help. *Thanks in advance.

That is the symptom my ssystem had. Problem. The 1/4" riser pipe to
the switch was so plugged with crud I had to use a drill to clear it.
It would run, over pressure before it turned off and be very slow to
start again.

The bit about "spits and sputter" sounds like your well may not be
recovering or keeping up with the drawdown.

Harry K

On Thu, 03 Nov 2011 20:14:59 -0500, Dean Hoffman
wrote:

contacts, or the little hole in the bottom is clogging with crud/rust.
This switch is in a pit and not easy to get to, so before I go down
there, I thought I'd post this on this newsgroup and see what others
have to say about it.

Does it pump air? Could the problem be a lack of water? Plugged
holes in the casing?


No, it dont pump anything, the water seems to be going backward (I'm
on a hill with the well near the bottom of the hill).

I never had a water shortage in the past either. The well is nearly
500 feet deep.

On Thu, 3 Nov 2011 17:34:20 -0700 (PDT), tim birr
wrote:

On Nov 3, 6:02*pm, wrote:


I'd suspect the pressure switch.

BUT....I'd also suggest you closely look at this page I'm giving the
link to below. It runs through troubleshooting the switch as well as
other solutions, troubleshooting efforts.

There are multiple subjects -- not just switches -- on multiple
pages. One of the best "repair manuals" I've found for well owners.

http://www.inspectapedia.com/water/W...rol_Repair.htm


I'm suspecting the pressure switch too. I looked in the control box
where the capacitor is, to look for charred connections, etc. All
looks fine. I may try another capacitor just for the hell of it. I
dont think they are too costly. But first I plan to go in that pit
and check the pressure switch.

That webpage is very good!

Thanks

On Thu, 3 Nov 2011 19:06:45 -0700 (PDT), Harry K
wrote:


That is the symptom my ssystem had. Problem. The 1/4" riser pipe to
the switch was so plugged with crud I had to use a drill to clear it.
It would run, over pressure before it turned off and be very slow to
start again.

I'm suspecting the riser pipe too. This water does have a lot of
minerals, which I know from the toilet buildup, which requires an acid
to remove every few months. When I replaced the tank, I found that
pipe nearly clogged too. I'm not sure about OVER pressurem because it
never went above 50lbs (actually around 47 from what I recall). I
know I tried to get it up to 55 or 60 and it would not go that high.

The bit about "spits and sputter" sounds like your well may not be
recovering or keeping up with the drawdown.

Anything is possible, but I have never had a water shortage, and this
well is nearly 500 feet deep. There is no lack of water around this
part of the country either. The spit and sputter is the water going
backwards. I'm on a hill and the well is near the lowest point. I
know several times when i was filling livestock tanks and in the house
the toilet tank begings to start filling. I guess that the lack of
pressure on the toilet fill valve opens it. So, water from uphill
goes into the toilet.

One other thought, do submercible pumps have a foot valve? Maybe the
water is flowing back into the well??????

I guess if all else fails, they do sell inline one way valves that I
could try. But I'll start with the electrical stuff first.

Thanks

Harry K

On Nov 3, 10:43*pm, wrote:
On Thu, 3 Nov 2011 19:06:45 -0700 (PDT), Harry K

wrote:

That is the symptom my ssystem had. *Problem. *The 1/4" riser pipe to
the switch was so plugged with crud I had to use a drill to clear it.
It would run, over pressure before it turned off and be very slow to
start again.

I'm suspecting the riser pipe too. *This water does have a lot of
minerals, which I know from the toilet buildup, which requires an acid
to remove every few months. *When I replaced the tank, I found that
pipe nearly clogged too. I'm not sure about OVER pressurem because it
never went above 50lbs (actually around 47 from what I recall). *I
know I tried to get it up to 55 or 60 and it would not go that high.

The bit about "spits and sputter" sounds like your well may not be
recovering or keeping up with the drawdown.

Anything is possible, but I have never had a water shortage, and this
well is nearly 500 feet deep. *There is no lack of water around this
part of the country either. *The spit and sputter is the water going
backwards. *I'm on a hill and the well is near the lowest point. *I
know several times when i was filling livestock tanks and in the house
the toilet tank begings to start filling. *I guess that the lack of
pressure on the toilet fill valve opens it. *So, water from uphill
goes into the toilet.

One other thought, do submercible pumps have a foot valve? *Maybe the
water is flowing back into the well??????

I guess if all else fails, they do sell inline one way valves that I
could try. *But I'll start with the electrical stuff first.

Thanks



Harry K- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Yes a submersible has a checkvalve built in. If it fails, you can
jury rig the system by putting a checkvalve prior to the pressure
tank. Best place is as close to the well head as you can get.

Harry K

On Thu, 03 Nov 2011 19:02:09 -0600, jw wrote:

it will run
for awhile, then it spits and sputters, the water stops flowing for a
minute or so, and then it begins pumping again.

Just to state what may already be obvious ...

I have two wells and they do that all the time because that's what
they're designed to do.

The well pumping causes a localized v-shaped 'cavitation' in the water
table such that the pump spins faster when it is no longer submerged in
water. Topside, a current-aware switch senses the lack of load, and shuts
off the pump for a specified period of time (adjustable).

After that period of time, generally fifteen minutes to an hour, the well
has recovered, and the pump turns back on.

Until it happens again. And again. And again. All day. All night.

This is how my well is designed anyway.

You did mention you understood the controls of your system so that may
not be the case ... but ... as I said ... at the risk of stating the
obvious ... I provide this information.

Good luck!

On Nov 4, 9:46*am, arkland wrote:
On Thu, 03 Nov 2011 19:02:09 -0600, jw wrote:
it will run
for awhile, then it spits and sputters, the water stops flowing for a
minute or so, and then it begins pumping again.

Just to state what may already be obvious ...

I have two wells and they do that all the time because that's what
they're designed to do.

The well pumping causes a localized v-shaped 'cavitation' in the water
table such that the pump spins faster when it is no longer submerged in
water. Topside, a current-aware switch senses the lack of load, and shuts
off the pump for a specified period of time (adjustable).

After that period of time, generally fifteen minutes to an hour, the well
has recovered, and the pump turns back on.

Until it happens again. And again. And again. All day. All night.

This is how my well is designed anyway.

You did mention you understood the controls of your system so that may
not be the case ... but ... as I said ... at the risk of stating the
obvious ... I provide this information.

Good luck!

First thing I would do is determine if the pump is actually running
when it' not producing water. With a clamp-on amp meter you
can determine that. Or even with a VOM you can find out if
voltage is constantly going to the pump. That's where I would
start before talking anything apart. If the pump is running and
not producing water, then you know it has nothing to do with
the pressure switch. From the description, it could be anything
from a bad switch to a well that no longer has sufficient water.

wrote:
On Fri, 4 Nov 2011 07:08:43 -0700 (PDT), "
wrote:

On Nov 4, 9:46 am, arkland wrote:
On Thu, 03 Nov 2011 19:02:09 -0600, jw wrote:
it will run
for awhile, then it spits and sputters, the water stops flowing
for a minute or so, and then it begins pumping again.

Just to state what may already be obvious ...

I have two wells and they do that all the time because that's what
they're designed to do.

The well pumping causes a localized v-shaped 'cavitation' in the
water table such that the pump spins faster when it is no longer
submerged in water. Topside, a current-aware switch senses the lack
of load, and shuts off the pump for a specified period of time
(adjustable).

After that period of time, generally fifteen minutes to an hour,
the well has recovered, and the pump turns back on.

Until it happens again. And again. And again. All day. All night.

This is how my well is designed anyway.

You did mention you understood the controls of your system so that
may not be the case ... but ... as I said ... at the risk of
stating the obvious ... I provide this information.

Good luck!

First thing I would do is determine if the pump is actually running
when it' not producing water. With a clamp-on amp meter you
can determine that. Or even with a VOM you can find out if
voltage is constantly going to the pump. That's where I would
start before talking anything apart. If the pump is running and
not producing water, then you know it has nothing to do with
the pressure switch. From the description, it could be anything
from a bad switch to a well that no longer has sufficient water.

This I can answer without any clamp on meter. There is a yard hydrant
right next to the well. I can hear the pump running when I'm right by
the well. I turned on the hydrant, and got water, but all of a sudden
the water stopped flowing. I did not hear the pump, and even put my
ear to the well cap. Pump was not running. All of a sudden I heard
it kikc on, and water began coming out the hydrant again. So, I do
know the pump is not kicking on when the water stops, but it will kick
on after a minute or two.

That pretty much tells me that the problem is somewhere in the
electrical system. I'm gonna crawl down in the pit this weekend and
check that pressure switch. I suspect that is the problem.

Is there a check valve between that hydrant and the pressure tank? If so, a good
system will probably do exactly as you describe as the pump cycles.

On 11/4/2011 4:44 PM, Bob F wrote:
wrote:
On Fri, 4 Nov 2011 07:08:43 -0700 (PDT), "
wrote:

On Nov 4, 9:46 am, wrote:
On Thu, 03 Nov 2011 19:02:09 -0600, jw wrote:
it will run
for awhile, then it spits and sputters, the water stops flowing
for a minute or so, and then it begins pumping again.

Just to state what may already be obvious ...

I have two wells and they do that all the time because that's what
they're designed to do.

The well pumping causes a localized v-shaped 'cavitation' in the
water table such that the pump spins faster when it is no longer
submerged in water. Topside, a current-aware switch senses the lack
of load, and shuts off the pump for a specified period of time
(adjustable).

After that period of time, generally fifteen minutes to an hour,
the well has recovered, and the pump turns back on.

Until it happens again. And again. And again. All day. All night.

This is how my well is designed anyway.

You did mention you understood the controls of your system so that
may not be the case ... but ... as I said ... at the risk of
stating the obvious ... I provide this information.

Good luck!

First thing I would do is determine if the pump is actually running
when it' not producing water. With a clamp-on amp meter you
can determine that. Or even with a VOM you can find out if
voltage is constantly going to the pump. That's where I would
start before talking anything apart. If the pump is running and
not producing water, then you know it has nothing to do with
the pressure switch. From the description, it could be anything
from a bad switch to a well that no longer has sufficient water.

This I can answer without any clamp on meter. There is a yard hydrant
right next to the well. I can hear the pump running when I'm right by
the well. I turned on the hydrant, and got water, but all of a sudden
the water stopped flowing. I did not hear the pump, and even put my
ear to the well cap. Pump was not running. All of a sudden I heard
it kikc on, and water began coming out the hydrant again. So, I do
know the pump is not kicking on when the water stops, but it will kick
on after a minute or two.

That pretty much tells me that the problem is somewhere in the
electrical system. I'm gonna crawl down in the pit this weekend and
check that pressure switch. I suspect that is the problem.

Is there a check valve between that hydrant and the pressure tank? If so, a good
system will probably do exactly as you describe as the pump cycles.


With my first old well being hooked up to the new house I told my friend
to put a hydrant at the well casing because it would be convenient to
do, then he explained the problem due to the check valve inside the
house. Since the ditch was there and black plastic pipe is cheap, he
just ran a 1" main from the house back to the well again to feed the
hydrant.

On Fri, 4 Nov 2011 07:08:43 -0700 (PDT), "
wrote:

On Nov 4, 9:46*am, arkland wrote:
On Thu, 03 Nov 2011 19:02:09 -0600, jw wrote:
it will run
for awhile, then it spits and sputters, the water stops flowing for a
minute or so, and then it begins pumping again.

Just to state what may already be obvious ...

I have two wells and they do that all the time because that's what
they're designed to do.

The well pumping causes a localized v-shaped 'cavitation' in the water
table such that the pump spins faster when it is no longer submerged in
water. Topside, a current-aware switch senses the lack of load, and shuts
off the pump for a specified period of time (adjustable).

After that period of time, generally fifteen minutes to an hour, the well
has recovered, and the pump turns back on.

Until it happens again. And again. And again. All day. All night.

This is how my well is designed anyway.

You did mention you understood the controls of your system so that may
not be the case ... but ... as I said ... at the risk of stating the
obvious ... I provide this information.

Good luck!

First thing I would do is determine if the pump is actually running
when it' not producing water. With a clamp-on amp meter you
can determine that. Or even with a VOM you can find out if
voltage is constantly going to the pump. That's where I would
start before talking anything apart. If the pump is running and
not producing water, then you know it has nothing to do with
the pressure switch. From the description, it could be anything
from a bad switch to a well that no longer has sufficient water.

This I can answer without any clamp on meter. There is a yard hydrant
right next to the well. I can hear the pump running when I'm right by
the well. I turned on the hydrant, and got water, but all of a sudden
the water stopped flowing. I did not hear the pump, and even put my
ear to the well cap. Pump was not running. All of a sudden I heard
it kikc on, and water began coming out the hydrant again. So, I do
know the pump is not kicking on when the water stops, but it will kick
on after a minute or two.

That pretty much tells me that the problem is somewhere in the
electrical system. I'm gonna crawl down in the pit this weekend and
check that pressure switch. I suspect that is the problem.

On Nov 4, 1:59*pm, Tony Miklos wrote:
On 11/4/2011 4:44 PM, Bob F wrote:





wrote:
On Fri, 4 Nov 2011 07:08:43 -0700 (PDT), "
*wrote:

On Nov 4, 9:46 am, *wrote:
On Thu, 03 Nov 2011 19:02:09 -0600, jw wrote:
it will run
for awhile, then it spits and sputters, the water stops flowing
for a minute or so, and then it begins pumping again.

Just to state what may already be obvious ...

I have two wells and they do that all the time because that's what
they're designed to do.

The well pumping causes a localized v-shaped 'cavitation' in the
water table such that the pump spins faster when it is no longer
submerged in water. Topside, a current-aware switch senses the lack
of load, and shuts off the pump for a specified period of time
(adjustable).

After that period of time, generally fifteen minutes to an hour,
the well has recovered, and the pump turns back on.

Until it happens again. And again. And again. All day. All night.

This is how my well is designed anyway.

You did mention you understood the controls of your system so that
may not be the case ... but ... as I said ... at the risk of
stating the obvious ... I provide this information.

Good luck!

First thing I would do is determine if the pump is actually running
when it' not producing water. *With a clamp-on amp meter you
can determine that. *Or even with a VOM you can find out if
voltage is constantly going to the pump. *That's where I would
start before talking anything apart. *If the pump is running and
not producing water, then you know it has nothing to do with
the pressure switch. *From the description, it could be anything
from a bad switch to a well that no longer has sufficient water.

This I can answer without any clamp on meter. *There is a yard hydrant
right next to the well. *I can hear the pump running when I'm right by
the well. *I turned on the hydrant, and got water, but all of a sudden
the water stopped flowing. *I did not hear the pump, and even put my
ear to the well cap. *Pump was not running. *All of a sudden I heard
it kikc on, and water began coming out the hydrant again. *So, I do
know the pump is not kicking on when the water stops, but it will kick
on after a minute or two.

That pretty much tells me that the problem is somewhere in the
electrical system. *I'm gonna crawl down in the pit this weekend and
check that pressure switch. *I suspect that is the problem.

Is there a check valve between that hydrant and the pressure tank? If so, a good
system will probably do exactly as you describe as the pump cycles.

With my first old well being hooked up to the new house I told my friend
to put a hydrant at the well casing because it would be convenient to
do, then he explained the problem due to the check valve inside the
house. *Since the ditch was there and black plastic pipe is cheap, he
just ran a 1" main from the house back to the well again to feed the
hydrant.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I never have understood why people put unneeded checkvalves into well
systems. The only real reason for doing it would be a leaking foot
valve or a submersible with a failed check valve.

Harry K

On Fri, 04 Nov 2011 20:32:58 -0700, Harry K wrote:

I never have understood why people put unneeded checkvalves into well
systems.

I'm confused.

Is the OP's well designed to run constantly, whether or not there is
water at the pump?

If so, what prevents it from burning up when the water level dips low?

On Fri, 4 Nov 2011 07:08:43 -0700 (PDT), "
wrote:

On Nov 4, 9:46*am, arkland wrote:
On Thu, 03 Nov 2011 19:02:09 -0600, jw wrote:
it will run
for awhile, then it spits and sputters, the water stops flowing for a
minute or so, and then it begins pumping again.

Just to state what may already be obvious ...

I have two wells and they do that all the time because that's what
they're designed to do.

The well pumping causes a localized v-shaped 'cavitation' in the water
table such that the pump spins faster when it is no longer submerged in
water. Topside, a current-aware switch senses the lack of load, and shuts
off the pump for a specified period of time (adjustable).

After that period of time, generally fifteen minutes to an hour, the well
has recovered, and the pump turns back on.

Until it happens again. And again. And again. All day. All night.

This is how my well is designed anyway.

You did mention you understood the controls of your system so that may
not be the case ... but ... as I said ... at the risk of stating the
obvious ... I provide this information.

Good luck!

First thing I would do is determine if the pump is actually running
when it' not producing water. With a clamp-on amp meter you
can determine that. Or even with a VOM you can find out if
voltage is constantly going to the pump. That's where I would
start before talking anything apart. If the pump is running and
not producing water, then you know it has nothing to do with
the pressure switch. From the description, it could be anything
from a bad switch to a well that no longer has sufficient water.

Here's the latest.
I was in the shed by the pump control box yesterday. The pump tried to
kick on, and the relay in that box started to chatter, making all
sorts of noise for a half minute or more, and finally kicking on. I
heard it shut off, and waited till it turned on again. Once again, it
began to chatter. I hit the box with my hand, and it kicked on as soon
as I hit it. I opened that control box (again), and looked at the
relay. All the wires are tight, and I took them all off and cleaned
the terminals. Putting it back together did not solve the problem.
I've come to the conclusion that the relay must be bad. They can not
be opened, so I just have to replace it. I intend to replace the
relay, and probably the capacitor at the same time.

Before I do that, I still wonder if the pressure switch could be burnt
and I know the relay depends on the pressure switch for kicking that
relay on and off. The thought is to bypass the pressure switch for a
few seconds and see if the relay still chatters. I'll have to do some
temporary wiring to do that, because the control box is made so the
actual relay and capacitor are disconnected when the box is opened.
I'll just remove the romex to the control that goes to the pressure
switch, and run a scrap of cable to a wall switch for testing.

At least I now know what is going on, and it has to be either the
relay or the pressure switch (or capacitor).

By the way this capacitor has THREE wires coming out of it. I've
never seen one with more than two. Weird....

On Fri, 04 Nov 2011 16:59:36 -0400, Tony Miklos
wrote:

With my first old well being hooked up to the new house I told my friend
to put a hydrant at the well casing because it would be convenient to
do, then he explained the problem due to the check valve inside the
house. Since the ditch was there and black plastic pipe is cheap, he
just ran a 1" main from the house back to the well again to feed the
hydrant.

My hydrant is directly to the pump pipes from the well. So the check
valve has to be down in the pump or foot valve. Everything else goes
to a storage tank located in a deep concrete pit. In that pit is the
tank, pressure switch, and pressure gauge. (the pit keeps stuff from
freezing in winter). There is a shed directly next to this pit, and
the control box with relay and capacitor are in the shed. Wires go to
the pit for the pressure switch from the shed, and more wires go to
the well for the pump.

I only know that hydrant is directly to the pump, because I replaced
all the piping in that pit except the feed pipe between the well and
the pit. That hydrant was already there when I moved here. From the
pit, there is a pipe that feeds the house, and the hydrants in the two
barns.

On Sat, 5 Nov 2011 05:18:37 +0000 (UTC), U vigilance
wrote:

On Fri, 04 Nov 2011 20:32:58 -0700, Harry K wrote:

I never have understood why people put unneeded checkvalves into well
systems.

I'm confused.

Is the OP's well designed to run constantly, whether or not there is
water at the pump?

If so, what prevents it from burning up when the water level dips low?

Of course it dont run constantly, that is what the pressure switch is
for. This well has never run out of water. I really do not know what
it would do if it did run out of water. But now, it does shut off.

Actually I have sort of figured out the problem. It is electrical.
See my other replys.

On 11/4/2011 11:32 PM, Harry K wrote:
On Nov 4, 1:59 pm, Tony wrote:
On 11/4/2011 4:44 PM, Bob F wrote:





wrote:
On Fri, 4 Nov 2011 07:08:43 -0700 (PDT), "
wrote:

On Nov 4, 9:46 am, wrote:
On Thu, 03 Nov 2011 19:02:09 -0600, jw wrote:
it will run
for awhile, then it spits and sputters, the water stops flowing
for a minute or so, and then it begins pumping again.

Just to state what may already be obvious ...

I have two wells and they do that all the time because that's what
they're designed to do.

The well pumping causes a localized v-shaped 'cavitation' in the
water table such that the pump spins faster when it is no longer
submerged in water. Topside, a current-aware switch senses the lack
of load, and shuts off the pump for a specified period of time
(adjustable).

After that period of time, generally fifteen minutes to an hour,
the well has recovered, and the pump turns back on.

Until it happens again. And again. And again. All day. All night.

This is how my well is designed anyway.

You did mention you understood the controls of your system so that
may not be the case ... but ... as I said ... at the risk of
stating the obvious ... I provide this information.

Good luck!

First thing I would do is determine if the pump is actually running
when it' not producing water. With a clamp-on amp meter you
can determine that. Or even with a VOM you can find out if
voltage is constantly going to the pump. That's where I would
start before talking anything apart. If the pump is running and
not producing water, then you know it has nothing to do with
the pressure switch. From the description, it could be anything
from a bad switch to a well that no longer has sufficient water.

This I can answer without any clamp on meter. There is a yard hydrant
right next to the well. I can hear the pump running when I'm right by
the well. I turned on the hydrant, and got water, but all of a sudden
the water stopped flowing. I did not hear the pump, and even put my
ear to the well cap. Pump was not running. All of a sudden I heard
it kikc on, and water began coming out the hydrant again. So, I do
know the pump is not kicking on when the water stops, but it will kick
on after a minute or two.

That pretty much tells me that the problem is somewhere in the
electrical system. I'm gonna crawl down in the pit this weekend and
check that pressure switch. I suspect that is the problem.

Is there a check valve between that hydrant and the pressure tank? If so, a good
system will probably do exactly as you describe as the pump cycles.

With my first old well being hooked up to the new house I told my friend
to put a hydrant at the well casing because it would be convenient to
do, then he explained the problem due to the check valve inside the
house. Since the ditch was there and black plastic pipe is cheap, he
just ran a 1" main from the house back to the well again to feed the
hydrant.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I never have understood why people put unneeded checkvalves into well
systems. The only real reason for doing it would be a leaking foot
valve or a submersible with a failed check valve.

Harry K

My current well has a check valve in the pump, then one in the pipe
every 100' up (about 600' deep), and another at the pressure tank. I'm
told it's standard practice.

On Nov 4, 10:18*pm, U vigilance wrote:
On Fri, 04 Nov 2011 20:32:58 -0700, Harry K wrote:
I never have understood why people put unneeded checkvalves into well
systems.

I'm confused.

Is the OP's well designed to run constantly, whether or not there is
water at the pump?

If so, what prevents it from burning up when the water level dips low?

??? what does that have to do with a check valve?

Harry K

On Nov 5, 7:45*am, Tony Miklos wrote:
On 11/4/2011 11:32 PM, Harry K wrote:





On Nov 4, 1:59 pm, Tony *wrote:
On 11/4/2011 4:44 PM, Bob F wrote:

wrote:
On Fri, 4 Nov 2011 07:08:43 -0700 (PDT), "
* *wrote:

On Nov 4, 9:46 am, * *wrote:
On Thu, 03 Nov 2011 19:02:09 -0600, jw wrote:
it will run
for awhile, then it spits and sputters, the water stops flowing
for a minute or so, and then it begins pumping again.

Just to state what may already be obvious ...

I have two wells and they do that all the time because that's what
they're designed to do.

The well pumping causes a localized v-shaped 'cavitation' in the
water table such that the pump spins faster when it is no longer
submerged in water. Topside, a current-aware switch senses the lack
of load, and shuts off the pump for a specified period of time
(adjustable).

After that period of time, generally fifteen minutes to an hour,
the well has recovered, and the pump turns back on.

Until it happens again. And again. And again. All day. All night.

This is how my well is designed anyway.

You did mention you understood the controls of your system so that
may not be the case ... but ... as I said ... at the risk of
stating the obvious ... I provide this information.

Good luck!

First thing I would do is determine if the pump is actually running
when it' not producing water. *With a clamp-on amp meter you
can determine that. *Or even with a VOM you can find out if
voltage is constantly going to the pump. *That's where I would
start before talking anything apart. *If the pump is running and
not producing water, then you know it has nothing to do with
the pressure switch. *From the description, it could be anything
from a bad switch to a well that no longer has sufficient water.

This I can answer without any clamp on meter. *There is a yard hydrant
right next to the well. *I can hear the pump running when I'm right by
the well. *I turned on the hydrant, and got water, but all of a sudden
the water stopped flowing. *I did not hear the pump, and even put my
ear to the well cap. *Pump was not running. *All of a sudden I heard
it kikc on, and water began coming out the hydrant again. *So, I do
know the pump is not kicking on when the water stops, but it will kick
on after a minute or two.

That pretty much tells me that the problem is somewhere in the
electrical system. *I'm gonna crawl down in the pit this weekend and
check that pressure switch. *I suspect that is the problem.

Is there a check valve between that hydrant and the pressure tank? If so, a good
system will probably do exactly as you describe as the pump cycles.

With my first old well being hooked up to the new house I told my friend
to put a hydrant at the well casing because it would be convenient to
do, then he explained the problem due to the check valve inside the
house. *Since the ditch was there and black plastic pipe is cheap, he
just ran a 1" main from the house back to the well again to feed the
hydrant.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I never have understood why people put unneeded checkvalves into well
systems. *The only real reason for doing it would be a leaking foot
valve or a submersible with a failed check valve.

Harry K

My current well has a check valve in the pump, then one in the pipe
every 100' up (about 600' deep), and another at the pressure tank. *I'm
told it's standard practice.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Other than keeping check valve salesmen in buisness, those accomlish
nothing that the one on the submersible does. Well they do add some
resistance to water flow.

Harry K

On Nov 5, 3:12*am, wrote:
On Fri, 4 Nov 2011 07:08:43 -0700 (PDT), "





wrote:
On Nov 4, 9:46*am, arkland wrote:
On Thu, 03 Nov 2011 19:02:09 -0600, jw wrote:
it will run
for awhile, then it spits and sputters, the water stops flowing for a
minute or so, and then it begins pumping again.

Just to state what may already be obvious ...

I have two wells and they do that all the time because that's what
they're designed to do.

The well pumping causes a localized v-shaped 'cavitation' in the water
table such that the pump spins faster when it is no longer submerged in
water. Topside, a current-aware switch senses the lack of load, and shuts
off the pump for a specified period of time (adjustable).

After that period of time, generally fifteen minutes to an hour, the well
has recovered, and the pump turns back on.

Until it happens again. And again. And again. All day. All night.

This is how my well is designed anyway.

You did mention you understood the controls of your system so that may
not be the case ... but ... as I said ... at the risk of stating the
obvious ... I provide this information.

Good luck!

First thing I would do is determine if the pump is actually running
when it' not producing water. *With a clamp-on amp meter you
can determine that. *Or even with a VOM you can find out if
voltage is constantly going to the pump. *That's where I would
start before talking anything apart. *If the pump is running and
not producing water, then you know it has nothing to do with
the pressure switch. *From the description, it could be anything
from a bad switch to a well that no longer has sufficient water.

Here's the latest.
I was in the shed by the pump control box yesterday. The pump tried to
kick on, and the relay in that box started to chatter, making all
sorts of noise for a half minute or more, and finally kicking on. *I
heard it shut off, and waited till it turned on again. *Once again, it
began to chatter. I hit the box with my hand, and it kicked on as soon
as I hit it. I opened that control box (again), and looked at the
relay. *All the wires are tight, and I took them all off and cleaned
the terminals. *Putting it back together did not solve the problem.
I've come to the conclusion that the relay must be bad. *They can not
be opened, so I just have to replace it. *I intend to replace the
relay, and probably the capacitor at the same time.

Before I do that, I still wonder if the pressure switch could be burnt
and I know the relay depends on the pressure switch for kicking that
relay on and off. *The thought is to bypass the pressure switch for a
few seconds and see if the relay still chatters. *I'll have to do some
temporary wiring to do that, because the control box is made so the
actual relay and capacitor are disconnected when the box is opened.
I'll just remove the romex to the control that goes to the pressure
switch, and run a scrap of cable to a wall switch for testing.

At least I now know what is going on, and it has to be either the
relay or the pressure switch (or capacitor).

By the way this capacitor has THREE wires coming out of it. *I've
never seen one with more than two. *Weird....- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

From your description of the limited access down in there, I wouild
replace every electrical component there while I was working at it.
Pressure switch itself is a fairly cheap component.

For me, one trip down in there would convince me to move all that
stuff into the house where freezingwould not be a concern. The system
doesn't care if those controls and pressure tank are at the well head
or a 1/4 mile away.

Harry K

On Sat, 5 Nov 2011 09:30:51 -0700 (PDT), Harry K
wrote:


From your description of the limited access down in there, I wouild
replace every electrical component there while I was working at it.
Pressure switch itself is a fairly cheap component.

For me, one trip down in there would convince me to move all that
stuff into the house where freezingwould not be a concern. The system
doesn't care if those controls and pressure tank are at the well head
or a 1/4 mile away.

Harry K

The only electrical component in the pit is the pressure switch. The
other stuff (control box) is in the shed and easy to get to.
Putting the tank in the house would require a ton of wire. You said
1/4 mile, and that is actually about the distance from the house to
the well. There would have to be wire run all that distance to the
pump. The shed/garage is 10 feet from the well, but is not heated.
The pit, (an old cistern), is in between the well and the shed. It
takes a 16 ft. ladder to get down there leaving 6 inches of ladder to
spare, and I can barely get into the opening. The cistern is all
concrete, but I must have a sump pump down there, since it will get
standing water after heavy rains. When the former tank sprung a leak,
the pit filled half way with water because the sump pump was bad.
Amazingly, the breaker never blew yet the pressure switch was under
water..... Thats when I replaced the tank, pressure switch, gauge,
and sump pump, all at the same time, along with some of the piping.

On Nov 5, 1:25*pm, wrote:
On Sat, 5 Nov 2011 09:30:51 -0700 (PDT), Harry K

wrote:

From your description of the limited access down in there, I wouild
replace every electrical component there while I was working at it.
Pressure switch itself is a fairly cheap component.

For me, one trip down in there would convince me to move all that
stuff into the house where freezingwould not be a concern. *The system
doesn't care if those controls and pressure tank are at the well head
or a 1/4 mile away.

Harry K

The only electrical component in the pit is the pressure switch. *The
other stuff (control box) is in the shed and easy to get to.
Putting the tank in the house would require a ton of wire. *You said
1/4 mile, and that is actually about the distance from the house to
the well. *There would have to be wire run all that distance to the
pump. *The shed/garage is 10 feet from the well, but is not heated.
The pit, (an old cistern), is in between the well and the shed. *It
takes a 16 ft. ladder to get down there leaving 6 inches of ladder to
spare, and I can barely get into the opening. *The cistern is all
concrete, but I must have a sump pump down there, since it will get
standing water after heavy rains. *When the former tank sprung a leak,
the pit filled half way with water because the sump pump was bad.
Amazingly, the breaker never blew yet the pressure switch was under
water..... *Thats when I replaced the tank, pressure switch, gauge,
and sump pump, all at the same time, along with some of the piping.



Moving the tank wouldn't add any wires. The pressure switch can be
anywhere, it doesn't need to be by the tank. Since all your controls
are in the shed you really would gain much any how.

Your descriptionof the hole, the problems you have had, etc. really
hilite reasons that wells should _never_ be terminatedin a below
ground pit. That type of installation should have died 50 years ago.
Teh community well I was on befoe drilling my own was in a 'hole in
the ground' That's when I learned to hate the asinine things.

Harry K