http://www.popularmechanics.com/home...nd-tear-of-e10

Repairman and small-business owner Rich Herder doesn't mince words about
the damage ethanol in gasoline is doing to the small engines in outdoor
power equipment. "It's the biggest disaster to hit gasoline in my
lifetime," Herder says. He owns McIntyre's Locksmith & Lawnmower, a
service business in Westfield, N.J. Founded in 1898 to refurbish
saddles, the business today repairs more than 5000 machines a
year—mostly pieces of outdoor power equipment, and many of them,
according to Herder, damaged by the alcohol in today's gasoline, known
as E10 for the 10 percent of alcohol it contains.

On Tue, 25 Oct 2011 21:35:32 -0400, Cheeseball wrote:

http://www.popularmechanics.com/home...nd-tear-of-e10

Repairman and small-business owner Rich Herder doesn't mince words about
the damage ethanol in gasoline is doing to the small engines in outdoor
power equipment. "It's the biggest disaster to hit gasoline in my
lifetime," Herder says. He owns McIntyre's Locksmith & Lawnmower, a
service business in Westfield, N.J. Founded in 1898 to refurbish
saddles, the business today repairs more than 5000 machines a
year¡Xmostly pieces of outdoor power equipment, and many of them,
according to Herder, damaged by the alcohol in today's gasoline, known
as E10 for the 10 percent of alcohol it contains.

Here in Missouri the gas stations are REQUIRED to add alcohol to gasoline
once the price hits a certain point. It has been years since there has been
no alcohol in all regular and midrange gasoline here.

On 10/25/2011 6:35 PM, Cheeseball wrote:
http://www.popularmechanics.com/home...nd-tear-of-e10


Repairman and small-business owner Rich Herder doesn't mince words about
the damage ethanol in gasoline is doing to the small engines in outdoor
power equipment. "It's the biggest disaster to hit gasoline in my
lifetime," Herder says. He owns McIntyre's Locksmith & Lawnmower, a
service business in Westfield, N.J. Founded in 1898 to refurbish
saddles, the business today repairs more than 5000 machines a
year—mostly pieces of outdoor power equipment, and many of them,
according to Herder, damaged by the alcohol in today's gasoline, known
as E10 for the 10 percent of alcohol it contains.


And i've never had a bit of problem with it. My chainsaws are 20+ years
old and my weedeater and blower are 5 years old. Never had a second of
problem with any of them. Oh, wait, I did replace the fuel pickup hose
on ONE of the chain saws. Dam! A $2 repair in 20 years.


--
Steve Barker
remove the "not" from my address to email

On Oct 25, 8:35*pm, Cheeseball
wrote:
http://www.popularmechanics.com/home...ols/can-boutiq...

Repairman and small-business owner Rich Herder doesn't mince words about
the damage ethanol in gasoline is doing to the small engines in outdoor
power equipment. "It's the biggest disaster to hit gasoline in my
lifetime," Herder says. He owns McIntyre's Locksmith & Lawnmower, a
service business in Westfield, N.J. Founded in 1898 to refurbish
saddles, the business today repairs more than 5000 machines a
year—mostly pieces of outdoor power equipment, and many of them,
according to Herder, damaged by the alcohol in today's gasoline, known
as E10 for the 10 percent of alcohol it contains.

My car runs better on ethanol free gas too. Here in IL they are
required to blend in ethanol. In next door Indina you can still get
pure gas. I love filling up whenever I get to IN. But on the other
hand gas line freeze up is a thing of the past in IL. Before we had
ethanol, gas line freeze up was the main cause for hard/no starts in
winter. Now anyone who buys a can of Heat in IL is buying snake oil,
you dont need it anymore.

On 10/25/2011 9:14 PM, RickH wrote:


My car runs better on ethanol free gas too.

LMAO!

--
Steve Barker
remove the "not" from my address to email

On Oct 26, 6:48*am, Steve Barker wrote:
On 10/25/2011 9:14 PM, RickH wrote:



My car runs better on ethanol free gas too.

LMAO!

--
Steve Barker
remove the "not" from my address to email

The problem arises because US ethanol is derived from corn. Elsewhere
it is derived from sugar cane. It also cause increased emissions of
formaldehyde and ozone. Both cause smog and cancer.
Adding ethanol is another way of improving the "anti-knock"
properteries rather than using lead.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethanol#As_a_fuel
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MTBE#Al...ti-knock_agent

harry wrote in
:


The problem arises because US ethanol is derived from corn. Elsewhere
it is derived from sugar cane.



What "problem" are you referring to? Ethanol is ethanol, regardless of the
feedstock used to make the ethanol. Polymers in the fuel system need to be
formulated to tolerate ethanol regardless of the feedstock.

Ethanol is an expensive waste whether you use corn or sugar cane. Even Al
Gore admits this now, revealing recently that he'd only pushed for fuel-
ethanol as a sop to farm states in the hopes of improving his chances at
the presidency.

--
Tegger

On 10/26/2011 3:43 AM, Tegger wrote:
wrote in
:


The problem arises because US ethanol is derived from corn. Elsewhere
it is derived from sugar cane.



What "problem" are you referring to? Ethanol is ethanol, regardless of the
feedstock used to make the ethanol. Polymers in the fuel system need to be
formulated to tolerate ethanol regardless of the feedstock.

Ethanol is an expensive waste whether you use corn or sugar cane. Even Al
Gore admits this now, revealing recently that he'd only pushed for fuel-
ethanol as a sop to farm states in the hopes of improving his chances at
the presidency.


Your reply, more erudite than mine, is correct, but, don't try to reason
with Harry.

On Oct 26, 8:43*am, Tegger wrote:
harry wrote :



The problem arises because US ethanol is derived from corn. *Elsewhere
it is derived from sugar cane.

What "problem" are you referring to? Ethanol is ethanol, regardless of the
feedstock used to make the ethanol. Polymers in the fuel system need to be
formulated to tolerate ethanol regardless of the feedstock.

Ethanol is an expensive waste whether you use corn or sugar cane. Even Al
Gore admits this now, revealing recently that he'd only pushed for fuel-
ethanol as a sop to farm states in the hopes of improving his chances at
the presidency.

--
Tegger

"Ethanol" refers to a group of chemicals not just the one. They have
different properties

On 10/26/2011 3:07 AM, harry wrote:
On Oct 26, 6:48 am, Steve wrote:
On 10/25/2011 9:14 PM, RickH wrote:



My car runs better on ethanol free gas too.

LMAO!

--
Steve Barker
remove the "not" from my address to email

The problem arises because US ethanol is derived from corn. Elsewhere
it is derived from sugar cane. It also cause increased emissions of
formaldehyde and ozone. Both cause smog and cancer.
Adding ethanol is another way of improving the "anti-knock"
properteries rather than using lead.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethanol#As_a_fuel
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MTBE#Al...ti-knock_agent

You're as dumb about chemistry as you are about politics, Harry.

On Oct 26, 12:31*pm, Frank wrote:
On 10/26/2011 3:07 AM, harry wrote:





On Oct 26, 6:48 am, Steve *wrote:
On 10/25/2011 9:14 PM, RickH wrote:

My car runs better on ethanol free gas too.

LMAO!

--
Steve Barker
remove the "not" from my address to email

The problem arises because US ethanol is derived from corn. *Elsewhere
it is derived from sugar cane. *It also cause increased emissions of
formaldehyde and ozone. Both cause smog and cancer.
Adding ethanol is another way of improving the "anti-knock"
properteries rather than using lead.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethanol#As_a_fuel
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MTBE#Al...as_an_anti-kno...

You're as dumb about chemistry as you are about politics, Harry.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Ethanol contains traces of other substances depending on what it was
derived from.

On Wed, 26 Oct 2011 07:31:28 -0400, Frank
wrote:

On 10/26/2011 3:07 AM, harry wrote:
On Oct 26, 6:48 am, Steve wrote:
On 10/25/2011 9:14 PM, RickH wrote:



My car runs better on ethanol free gas too.

LMAO!

--
Steve Barker
remove the "not" from my address to email

The problem arises because US ethanol is derived from corn. Elsewhere
it is derived from sugar cane. It also cause increased emissions of
formaldehyde and ozone. Both cause smog and cancer.
Adding ethanol is another way of improving the "anti-knock"
properteries rather than using lead.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethanol#As_a_fuel
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MTBE#Al...ti-knock_agent

You're as dumb about chemistry as you are about politics, Harry.
Ethanol "marginally" increases octane of fuel, as the AKI of neet
ethanol is somewhere around 115. So E10 would have an octane rating a
couple of a points higher than plain gasoline. Start with 87 octane -
28 points spread between the gasoline and ethanol. Add 1/10 ethanol
and you get 2.8 points - but the ethanol is not anhydrous - it
contains water - which lowers the concentration - and therefore the
octane increase.
I know it's not 100% linear - but that is the rough essence of it.

http://news.consumerreports.org/home...r-engines.html

"But since ethanol started being added to fuel sold in Florida in 2007, the power-equipment pros were seeing something new: metal parts crusted up, plastic parts stiffened and cracked, and everything rubber, including the tips of needle valves, deteriorated. (The photo shows how ethanol could impact the carburetor of a small gas engine; the white, crusty film is apparently caused by the ethanol.)"

I'd just caught a sale on "dry gas" and bought a bunch, and
then the state started with the gasohol. Wasted a bunch of
money on small bottles of alcohol, and now it's in the
gasohol already. Oh, well.

One of these days before the snow, I'm going to pour my one
gallon of gas mix in the truck fuel tank, and buy some
premium to make gas mix, for my snow blower.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"RickH"
wrote in message
...

My car runs better on ethanol free gas too. Here in IL they
are
required to blend in ethanol. In next door Indina you can
still get
pure gas. I love filling up whenever I get to IN. But on
the other
hand gas line freeze up is a thing of the past in IL.
Before we had
ethanol, gas line freeze up was the main cause for hard/no
starts in
winter. Now anyone who buys a can of Heat in IL is buying
snake oil,
you dont need it anymore.

ethanol cuts fuel mileage too........

On Wed, 26 Oct 2011 05:00:44 -0700, bob haller wrote:

ethanol cuts fuel mileage too........

.... when it kills your engine and you can't go anywhere ;-)

On Wed, 26 Oct 2011 18:27:59 +0000 (UTC), Jules Richardson
wrote:

On Wed, 26 Oct 2011 05:00:44 -0700, bob haller wrote:

ethanol cuts fuel mileage too........

... when it kills your engine and you can't go anywhere ;-)


E10 drops fuel mileage about 5% because ethanol has only half the
heat /energy content as Gasoline. 10% ethanol means 5% less energy in
the same volume of fuel.

On Tue, 25 Oct 2011 21:14:07 -0700 (PDT), RickH
wrote:

On Oct 25, 8:35Â*pm, Cheeseball
wrote:
http://www.popularmechanics.com/home...ols/can-boutiq...

Repairman and small-business owner Rich Herder doesn't mince words about
the damage ethanol in gasoline is doing to the small engines in outdoor
power equipment. "It's the biggest disaster to hit gasoline in my
lifetime," Herder says. He owns McIntyre's Locksmith & Lawnmower, a
service business in Westfield, N.J. Founded in 1898 to refurbish
saddles, the business today repairs more than 5000 machines a
year€”mostly pieces of outdoor power equipment, and many of them,
according to Herder, damaged by the alcohol in today's gasoline, known
as E10 for the 10 percent of alcohol it contains.

My car runs better on ethanol free gas too. Here in IL they are
required to blend in ethanol. In next door Indina you can still get
pure gas. I love filling up whenever I get to IN. But on the other
hand gas line freeze up is a thing of the past in IL. Before we had
ethanol, gas line freeze up was the main cause for hard/no starts in
winter. Now anyone who buys a can of Heat in IL is buying snake oil,
you dont need it anymore.

Untill some cold day when the water load gets high enough that you
suffer phase separation and the hooch falls out of suspension. It
still won't freeze, but the car doesn't like running on 60-80 proof
ethanol. You need to add "heet" to get the water and hooch back into
the fuel mix.

On 10/25/2011 9:35 PM, Cheeseball wrote:
http://www.popularmechanics.com/home...nd-tear-of-e10


Repairman and small-business owner Rich Herder doesn't mince words about
the damage ethanol in gasoline is doing to the small engines in outdoor
power equipment. "It's the biggest disaster to hit gasoline in my
lifetime," Herder says. He owns McIntyre's Locksmith & Lawnmower, a
service business in Westfield, N.J. Founded in 1898 to refurbish
saddles, the business today repairs more than 5000 machines a
year—mostly pieces of outdoor power equipment, and many of them,
according to Herder, damaged by the alcohol in today's gasoline, known
as E10 for the 10 percent of alcohol it contains.


It did in my snow thrower a few years ago. Older equipment has seals
that are attacked by the higher solvent power of E10.

I remember when it was mandated in all gas stations around here and they
had to close to clean out their tanks to put in E10. Similarly they
cannot pipeline it because any deposits in tanks or pipes will have any
insoluble crud contaminate the E10.

TinyURL was created!
The following URL:

http://www.popularmechanics.com/home...utdoor-tools/c
an-boutique-fuel-save-small-engines-from-the-wear-and-tear-o
f-e10

has a length of 125 characters and resulted in the following
TinyURL which has a length of 26 characters:
http://tinyurl.com/3c4ksfx

Excellent, and sobering article. Thanks for posting.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"Cheeseball" wrote
in message
...
http://www.popularmechanics.com/home...nd-tear-of-e10

Repairman and small-business owner Rich Herder doesn't mince
words about
the damage ethanol in gasoline is doing to the small engines
in outdoor
power equipment. "It's the biggest disaster to hit gasoline
in my
lifetime," Herder says. He owns McIntyre's Locksmith &
Lawnmower, a
service business in Westfield, N.J. Founded in 1898 to
refurbish
saddles, the business today repairs more than 5000 machines
a
year-mostly pieces of outdoor power equipment, and many of
them,
according to Herder, damaged by the alcohol in today's
gasoline, known
as E10 for the 10 percent of alcohol it contains.

Stormin Mormon wrote:
TinyURL was created!
The following URL:

http://www.popularmechanics.com/home...utdoor-tools/c
an-boutique-fuel-save-small-engines-from-the-wear-and-tear-o
f-e10

has a length of 125 characters and resulted in the following
TinyURL which has a length of 26 characters:
http://tinyurl.com/3c4ksfx


Anyone else have that page repeatedly hang their computer. It loads partway,
then nothing.

On 2011-10-26, Bob F wrote:

Anyone else have that page repeatedly hang their computer. It loads partway,
then nothing.

Works for me, running linux and seamonkey (netscape) with noscript.

As for this alcohol nonsense, I don't buy it. On one hand we hear
it's ruining our engines, otoh, it's been around fer at least two
decades. One oil company was putting 10% in their gasoline as early
as the late 80s, long before it was required. I ran it, by choice, in
my V8 van because it reduced or eliminated ping over gasolines not
containing alcohol. And pray tell, what's that additive we've been
putting in our gas tanks, nearly forever, to alleviate water
condensation accumulation? Could it be --gasp!-- alcohol?

My personal opinion about home/garden gas engine tools falling apart
recently is, it's due more to increasingly cheapo crap quality than
any alcohol in the gas.

nb

My personal opinion about home/garden gas engine tools falling apart
recently is, it's due more to increasingly cheapo crap quality than
any alcohol in the gas.

nb

a lifetime friend who runs a small gas engine repair place bames
ethanol. its a big operation he should know..........

On Wed, 26 Oct 2011 12:13:14 -0700 (PDT), bob haller
wrote:

My personal opinion about home/garden gas engine tools falling apart
recently is, it's due more to increasingly cheapo crap quality than
any alcohol in the gas.

nb

a lifetime friend who runs a small gas engine repair place bames
ethanol. its a big operation he should know..........
And the ethanol is killing the old stuff too. "greenies" in the carb
and fuel system were NEVER a problem before ethanol fuel - and the
esimple expedient of NEVER running ethanol gas totally prevents it.

We are lucky enough here in Ontario Canada to still be able to buy
"abstainers gas" from the Shell Premium pumps. I use it in all my
small engine equipment except when I have surplus 100LL Avgas
available.(generally premix for the 2 stroke stuff)

On Oct 26, 6:01*pm, notbob wrote:
On 2011-10-26, Bob F wrote:

Anyone else have that page repeatedly hang their computer. It loads partway,
then nothing.

Works for me, running linux and seamonkey (netscape) with noscript. *

As for this alcohol nonsense, I don't buy it. *On one hand we hear
it's ruining our engines, otoh, it's been around fer at least two
decades. *One oil company was putting 10% in their gasoline as early
as the late 80s, long before it was required. *I ran it, by choice, in
my V8 van because it reduced or eliminated ping over gasolines not
containing alcohol. *And pray tell, what's that additive we've been
putting in our gas tanks, nearly forever, to alleviate water
condensation accumulation? *Could it be --gasp!-- alcohol?

My personal opinion about home/garden gas engine tools falling apart
recently is, it's due more to increasingly cheapo crap quality than
any alcohol in the gas.

nb

Yes,you're right. We have alcohol in petrol over here in one brand
since the 70's. They used to call it ignition control additive.
In Brazil some cars run on pure alcohol.

On 10/27/2011 3:25 AM, harry wrote:
On Oct 26, 6:01 pm, wrote:
On 2011-10-26, Bob wrote:

Anyone else have that page repeatedly hang their computer. It loads partway,
then nothing.

Works for me, running linux and seamonkey (netscape) with noscript.

As for this alcohol nonsense, I don't buy it. On one hand we hear
it's ruining our engines, otoh, it's been around fer at least two
decades. One oil company was putting 10% in their gasoline as early
as the late 80s, long before it was required. I ran it, by choice, in
my V8 van because it reduced or eliminated ping over gasolines not
containing alcohol. And pray tell, what's that additive we've been
putting in our gas tanks, nearly forever, to alleviate water
condensation accumulation? Could it be --gasp!-- alcohol?

My personal opinion about home/garden gas engine tools falling apart
recently is, it's due more to increasingly cheapo crap quality than
any alcohol in the gas.

nb

Yes,you're right. We have alcohol in petrol over here in one brand
since the 70's. They used to call it ignition control additive.
In Brazil some cars run on pure alcohol.
Please remember it is the votes who elected these Congressmen who have
required ethanol. If you don't like ethanol please vote in new people
who will repeal all of the ridiculous subsidies and requirements.

On Thu, 27 Oct 2011 00:25:02 -0700 (PDT), harry
wrote:

On Oct 26, 6:01Â*pm, notbob wrote:
On 2011-10-26, Bob F wrote:

Anyone else have that page repeatedly hang their computer. It loads partway,
then nothing.

Works for me, running linux and seamonkey (netscape) with noscript. Â*

As for this alcohol nonsense, I don't buy it. Â*On one hand we hear
it's ruining our engines, otoh, it's been around fer at least two
decades. Â*One oil company was putting 10% in their gasoline as early
as the late 80s, long before it was required. Â*I ran it, by choice, in
my V8 van because it reduced or eliminated ping over gasolines not
containing alcohol. Â*And pray tell, what's that additive we've been
putting in our gas tanks, nearly forever, to alleviate water
condensation accumulation? Â*Could it be --gasp!-- alcohol?

My personal opinion about home/garden gas engine tools falling apart
recently is, it's due more to increasingly cheapo crap quality than
any alcohol in the gas.

nb

Yes,you're right. We have alcohol in petrol over here in one brand
since the 70's. They used to call it ignition control additive.
In Brazil some cars run on pure alcohol.
Yes, but they are DESIGNED to run on straight Hooch. North American
market engines are NOT

Cheeseball wrote:
http://www.popularmechanics.com/home...nd-tear-of-e10


Repairman and small-business owner Rich Herder doesn't mince words about
the damage ethanol in gasoline is doing to the small engines in outdoor
power equipment. "It's the biggest disaster to hit gasoline in my
lifetime," Herder says. He owns McIntyre's Locksmith & Lawnmower, a
service business in Westfield, N.J. Founded in 1898 to refurbish
saddles, the business today repairs more than 5000 machines a
year—mostly pieces of outdoor power equipment, and many of them,
according to Herder, damaged by the alcohol in today's gasoline, known
as E10 for the 10 percent of alcohol it contains.


All I know is what I read in the papers....
Someone is bound to mention this, might as well get it over with,
http://www.goldeagle.com/brands/stabil/default.aspx