On Thu, 20 Oct 2011 10:34:00 -0500, "
wrote:

On Thu, 20 Oct 2011 08:51:04 -0400, dgk wrote:

I have an aluminum extension ladder that I use every other year or so
to get on the roof, otherwise it takes up space in the garage. Can I
just leave it under the deck in the backyard? It will get wet but
shouldn't rust although I guess the rope that operates the extension
will rot and need to be replaced. Will the mechanism itself develop
problems?

I hang my ladders from the garage ceiling. I built boxes over the door to
hold the feet, then mounted 2x4s across the ceiling, with eye hooks in them. I
then hook ropes with doggy clips tied to the ends across the ladders to keep
them against the ceiling (and the feet planted in the boxes). A rope and
pulley makes them easy to put away.

I thought of that but I'd have to redo the garage door opener to leave
enough room and I don't even know if that's possible. There really is
no way to hang it on the wall or ceiling that doesn't interfere with
something else.

Andy wrote:
On Oct 20, 7:51 am, dgk wrote:
I have an aluminum extension ladder that I use every other year or so
to get on the roof, otherwise it takes up space in the garage. Can I
just leave it under the deck in the backyard? It will get wet but
shouldn't rust although I guess the rope that operates the extension
will rot and need to be replaced. Will the mechanism itself develop
problems?

Andy replies:

I leave mine outside and , after many years, have noticed no
deterioration in the metal.... HOWEVER, I use mine mostly for
cleaning out gutters, and have some shag carpet duct taped
around the top 2 feet so it won't scratch the gutter that U
set it against..... That deteriorates.... I am considering just
making some carpet "sleeves" that I can slip on an off.....
Just an idea...
Maybe some innovative inventor will make a product like that
and get rich ....

Fiberglass ladder?

On Thu, 20 Oct 2011 18:18:46 -0400, "Stormin Mormon"
wrote:

Myself, and other contractors store ladders on the roof of
the van all year. The dogs corrode, and need to be sprayed
with PB Blaster before use. Springs rot out. But, overall,
the ladders survive some how.

Thanks, I didn't know about PB Blaster. Seems useful.

dgk wrote:
I have an aluminum extension ladder that I use every other year or so
to get on the roof, otherwise it takes up space in the garage. Can I
just leave it under the deck in the backyard? It will get wet but
shouldn't rust although I guess the rope that operates the extension
will rot and need to be replaced. Will the mechanism itself develop
problems?

I have a rope. Luckily it's black. The main problem is steel parts on
bottom of base. I threw parts of all aluminum ladder outside 6 years ago,
still ok.

Greg

On Oct 20, 6:43*am, Tony Hwang wrote:
dgk wrote:
I have an aluminum extension ladder that I use every other year or so
to get on the roof, otherwise it takes up space in the garage. Can I
just leave it under the deck in the backyard? It will get wet but
shouldn't rust although I guess the rope that operates the extension
will rot and need to be replaced. Will the mechanism itself develop
problems?

Hi,
I have been doing it for years for my 32 feet ext. ladder, I hang it
under the eve. of tool shed when not in use.

Same here. Out of the way, easy to hang, easy to retrieve and mostly
out of the weather.

Harry K

On Oct 20, 12:42*pm, Jules Richardson
wrote:
On Thu, 20 Oct 2011 10:24:20 -0700, Steve B wrote:
"DerbyDad03" wrote

Just curious...

"my open vehicle sheds" vs. "the back wall"

Does "open" mean 3 sided - i.e. just no door?

Yeah, that's the critter :-) We're on an old farm and have a couple out
back which will take two (large) vehicles each (plus a big enclosed
garage nearer to the house, so the sheds mostly get used for random
storage).

Maybe there's a better term for them (I'm an ex-Brit and we would have
called them 'open' there, even though they have walls on 3 sides, but I
suppose that doesn't necessarily make a lot of sense!)

cheers

Jules

Made perfect sense to me and I'm just an old farm boy from the
mountains of Idaho.

Harry K

On Oct 20, 7:14*am, TomC wrote:
dgk wrote in news460a7t3rkbe2qdlcjoojhcmp5niidkegt@
4ax.com:

I have an aluminum extension ladder that I use every other year or so
to get on the roof, otherwise it takes up space in the garage. Can I
just leave it under the deck in the backyard? It will get wet but
shouldn't rust although I guess the rope that operates the extension
will rot and need to be replaced. Will the mechanism itself develop
problems?

I keep a *28' ladder in my garage along a wall. I stack 2 cinder blocks
under both ends, lay the ladder down flat on them and cover with a couple
of long boards. Makes for a great storage shelf! Downside is you have to
empty the shelf to use the ladder.
TomC

Yep. I used to keep mine inside the garage hanging on the wall.
Problem was other stuff got hung on top of the ladder, etc. Finally
decided hanging under the eaves behind the garage was much saner.

Harry K

On Oct 20, 10:52*am, chaniarts wrote:
On 10/20/2011 7:50 AM, Kurt Ullman wrote:





In om,
* "Steve *wrote:

*wrote in message
news I have an aluminum extension ladder that I use every other year or so
to get on the roof, otherwise it takes up space in the garage. Can I
just leave it under the deck in the backyard? It will get wet but
shouldn't rust although I guess the rope that operates the extension
will rot and need to be replaced. Will the mechanism itself develop
problems?

I leave all three of mine outdoors. *Other than the rope rotting, and the
plastic on the pulleys if there are plastic pulleys, they wear well. *I
would just place them somewhere they are somewhat protected, and you don't
have to dig through the snow to get at it.

* * * I would agree with everything except that part about putting where
you don't have to dig it out of the snow. I would want it exactly where
I would have to dig it out of the snow. I can't think of a reason why I
would want to get on a ladder when it is that cold out, so any excuse I
can use is a good one (g)

winter storm blowing a hole in the roof that you want to cover?

hanging the xmas lights at last minute, or taking them down in jan?- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Taking them donw in January??? I figure just _turning them off_ in
January is enough of a hassle. As for taking them down? What a weird
concept.

Harry K

On Oct 20, 11:29*am, Evan wrote:
On Oct 20, 8:51*am, dgk wrote:

I have an aluminum extension ladder that I use every other year or so
to get on the roof, otherwise it takes up space in the garage. Can I
just leave it under the deck in the backyard? It will get wet but
shouldn't rust although I guess the rope that operates the extension
will rot and need to be replaced. Will the mechanism itself develop
problems?

As long as you take precautions so that only you can use the ladder,
like storing it in a way such as described by DerbyDad03 but adding
a set of chains and padlocks to secure it so that only you can use
it...

Burglars would love access to a ladder, there are many places on
a house where with a simple screwdriver you can gain access to
a man sized opening if you have a vented attic... *Also many people
often forget to lock windows on upper floors assuming that no one
would ever be able to climb up that high to make use of them...

But you could just install those hangers inside your garage and
keep your ladder up and out of the way inside where you won't
have to worry about it being exposed to the elements or being
something easily accessible to burglars...

~~ Evan

The burglars I know (worked jail for 15 years) are too lazy to go to
all that work.

I can't picture a "vented opening" that can be removed by a
screwdriver. Given a screwdriver and the choice of breaking/forcing a
bottom floor window or working on a ladder...

Harry K

On Fri, 21 Oct 2011 09:28:10 -0400, dgk wrote:

On Thu, 20 Oct 2011 10:34:00 -0500, "
wrote:

On Thu, 20 Oct 2011 08:51:04 -0400, dgk wrote:

I have an aluminum extension ladder that I use every other year or so
to get on the roof, otherwise it takes up space in the garage. Can I
just leave it under the deck in the backyard? It will get wet but
shouldn't rust although I guess the rope that operates the extension
will rot and need to be replaced. Will the mechanism itself develop
problems?

I hang my ladders from the garage ceiling. I built boxes over the door to
hold the feet, then mounted 2x4s across the ceiling, with eye hooks in them. I
then hook ropes with doggy clips tied to the ends across the ladders to keep
them against the ceiling (and the feet planted in the boxes). A rope and
pulley makes them easy to put away.

I thought of that but I'd have to redo the garage door opener to leave
enough room and I don't even know if that's possible. There really is
no way to hang it on the wall or ceiling that doesn't interfere with
something else.

Your door must be really close to the ceiling. My ladders are stored parallel
to the opener track (ladder feet fit into boxes over the door opening), so
don't interfere with the opener at all.

No room on the ceiling beside the overhead door? Must be a small garage.

On 10/21/2011 7:29 AM, Harry K wrote:
On Oct 20, 10:52 am, wrote:
On 10/20/2011 7:50 AM, Kurt Ullman wrote:





In om,
"Steve wrote:

wrote in message
news I have an aluminum extension ladder that I use every other year or so
to get on the roof, otherwise it takes up space in the garage. Can I
just leave it under the deck in the backyard? It will get wet but
shouldn't rust although I guess the rope that operates the extension
will rot and need to be replaced. Will the mechanism itself develop
problems?

I leave all three of mine outdoors. Other than the rope rotting, and the
plastic on the pulleys if there are plastic pulleys, they wear well. I
would just place them somewhere they are somewhat protected, and you don't
have to dig through the snow to get at it.

I would agree with everything except that part about putting where
you don't have to dig it out of the snow. I would want it exactly where
I would have to dig it out of the snow. I can't think of a reason why I
would want to get on a ladder when it is that cold out, so any excuse I
can use is a good one (g)

winter storm blowing a hole in the roof that you want to cover?

hanging the xmas lights at last minute, or taking them down in jan?- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Taking them donw in January??? I figure just _turning them off_ in
January is enough of a hassle. As for taking them down? What a weird
concept.

Harry K

jan 2 is takedown day at my house. of course, i do have to usually take
off my jacket and do work up a sweat since it's usually 75-80F that day.

On Thu, 20 Oct 2011 23:35:01 -0400, aemeijers
wrote:

On 10/20/2011 3:48 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Oct 20, 3:42 pm, Jules Richardson
wrote:
On Thu, 20 Oct 2011 10:24:20 -0700, Steve B wrote:
wrote

Just curious...

"my open vehicle sheds" vs. "the back wall"

Does "open" mean 3 sided - i.e. just no door?

Yeah, that's the critter :-) We're on an old farm and have a couple out
back which will take two (large) vehicles each (plus a big enclosed
garage nearer to the house, so the sheds mostly get used for random
storage).

Maybe there's a better term for them (I'm an ex-Brit and we would have
called them 'open' there, even though they have walls on 3 sides, but I
suppose that doesn't necessarily make a lot of sense!)

cheers

Jules

In the states we have an extremely technical term for that type of
building:

We call it "a shed without a door". ;-)

I always heard them called tractor sheds.

Much like carports, really, since the walls usually don't go down to
grade level.
Around here even the "driving shed" or "drive-in shed" has doors.
Otherwize you'd need to dig out the tractor before you could use it to
blow out the lane.

On Fri, 21 Oct 2011 10:04:06 -0700, chaniarts wrote:
jan 2 is takedown day at my house. of course, i do have to usually take
off my jacket and do work up a sweat since it's usually 75-80F that day.

Huh, it's usually 100 degrees less here at that time of year :-)

On Oct 20, 8:51*am, dgk wrote:
I have an aluminum extension ladder that I use every other year or so
to get on the roof, otherwise it takes up space in the garage. Can I
just leave it under the deck in the backyard? It will get wet but
shouldn't rust although I guess the rope that operates the extension
will rot and need to be replaced. Will the mechanism itself develop
problems?

Mine has been outside for years, at least 15 years. Rope is black
poyethelene Dacron@, other rope may not hold up as well in the sun but
sythetic rope out of the sun beneath a deck should hold up fine.

On Oct 21, 7:43*am, "
wrote:
On Fri, 21 Oct 2011 09:28:10 -0400, dgk wrote:
On Thu, 20 Oct 2011 10:34:00 -0500, "
wrote:

On Thu, 20 Oct 2011 08:51:04 -0400, dgk wrote:

I have an aluminum extension ladder that I use every other year or so
to get on the roof, otherwise it takes up space in the garage. Can I
just leave it under the deck in the backyard? It will get wet but
shouldn't rust although I guess the rope that operates the extension
will rot and need to be replaced. Will the mechanism itself develop
problems?

I hang my ladders from the garage ceiling. *I built boxes over the door to
hold the feet, then mounted 2x4s across the ceiling, with eye hooks in them. I
then hook ropes with doggy clips tied to the ends across the ladders to keep
them against the ceiling (and the feet planted in the boxes). *A rope and
pulley makes them easy to put away.

I thought of that but I'd have to redo the garage door opener to leave
enough room and I don't even know if that's possible. There really is
no way to hang it on the wall or ceiling that doesn't interfere with
something else.

Your door must be really close to the ceiling. *My ladders are stored parallel
to the opener track (ladder feet fit into boxes over the door opening), so
don't interfere with the opener at all. *

No room on the ceiling beside the overhead door? Must be a small garage.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I have a double car garage with the same problem, i.e. no room above
it. Dunno why they built one back in the 50s with a (barely) 7'
ceiling.

Harry K

On Oct 21, 10:35*am, Harry K wrote:
On Oct 20, 11:29*am, Evan wrote:



On Oct 20, 8:51*am, dgk wrote:

I have an aluminum extension ladder that I use every other year or so
to get on the roof, otherwise it takes up space in the garage. Can I
just leave it under the deck in the backyard? It will get wet but
shouldn't rust although I guess the rope that operates the extension
will rot and need to be replaced. Will the mechanism itself develop
problems?

As long as you take precautions so that only you can use the ladder,
like storing it in a way such as described by DerbyDad03 but adding
a set of chains and padlocks to secure it so that only you can use
it...

Burglars would love access to a ladder, there are many places on
a house where with a simple screwdriver you can gain access to
a man sized opening if you have a vented attic... *Also many people
often forget to lock windows on upper floors assuming that no one
would ever be able to climb up that high to make use of them...

But you could just install those hangers inside your garage and
keep your ladder up and out of the way inside where you won't
have to worry about it being exposed to the elements or being
something easily accessible to burglars...

~~ Evan

The burglars I know (worked jail for 15 years) are too lazy to go to
all that work.

I can't picture a "vented opening" that can be removed by a
screwdriver. *Given a screwdriver and the choice of breaking/forcing a
bottom floor window or working on a ladder...

Harry K

@Harry K:

Well then I propose that the burglars you met in your jail weren't
really all that good at doing burglaries then...

You would be surprised at what the real good burglars do and use
and put back the way they found it before leaving... The sort where
the victims don't even know they were burglarized until they go
looking for something that isn't where they left it anymore...

Also, breaking a window on an upper floor which overlooks a roof
would leave no glass on the ground and most people who are nosy
won't look _up_ to check on something... So if you want to discuss
amateur hour, you are right with the laziness, but if you are talking
about the real burglars that actually get away with their crimes,
maybe you have a few things to learn...

~~ Evan

On Oct 21, 12:12*pm, wrote:
On Thu, 20 Oct 2011 23:35:01 -0400, aemeijers
wrote:





On 10/20/2011 3:48 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Oct 20, 3:42 pm, Jules Richardson
*wrote:
On Thu, 20 Oct 2011 10:24:20 -0700, Steve B wrote:
*wrote

Just curious...

"my open vehicle sheds" vs. "the back wall"

Does "open" mean 3 sided - i.e. just no door?

Yeah, that's the critter :-) We're on an old farm and have a couple out
back which will take two (large) vehicles each (plus a big enclosed
garage nearer to the house, so the sheds mostly get used for random
storage).

Maybe there's a better term for them (I'm an ex-Brit and we would have
called them 'open' there, even though they have walls on 3 sides, but I
suppose that doesn't necessarily make a lot of sense!)

cheers

Jules

In the states we have an extremely technical term for that type of
building:

We call it "a shed without a door". *;-)

I always heard them called tractor sheds.

Much like carports, really, since the walls usually don't go down to
grade level.

*Around here even the "driving shed" or "drive-in shed" has doors.
Otherwize you'd need to dig out the tractor before you could use it to
blow out the lane.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Around here they are positioned with the open side downwind of the
prevailing. They used to be seen at almost every farmstead, now only
at old ones. My woodshed is built on that pattern, open on N side,
"eyebrow" over it. Never have more than a skift of snow on the
exposed face of the wood and I have had to dig a path through 2' of
snow to get to the shed.

Harry K

On Oct 21, 11:31 pm, Evan wrote:
On Oct 21, 10:35 am, Harry K wrote:



On Oct 20, 11:29 am, Evan wrote:

On Oct 20, 8:51 am, dgk wrote:

I have an aluminum extension ladder that I use every other year or so
to get on the roof, otherwise it takes up space in the garage. Can I
just leave it under the deck in the backyard? It will get wet but
shouldn't rust although I guess the rope that operates the extension
will rot and need to be replaced. Will the mechanism itself develop
problems?

As long as you take precautions so that only you can use the ladder,
like storing it in a way such as described by DerbyDad03 but adding
a set of chains and padlocks to secure it so that only you can use
it...

Burglars would love access to a ladder, there are many places on
a house where with a simple screwdriver you can gain access to
a man sized opening if you have a vented attic... Also many people
often forget to lock windows on upper floors assuming that no one
would ever be able to climb up that high to make use of them...

But you could just install those hangers inside your garage and
keep your ladder up and out of the way inside where you won't
have to worry about it being exposed to the elements or being
something easily accessible to burglars...

~~ Evan

The burglars I know (worked jail for 15 years) are too lazy to go to
all that work.

I can't picture a "vented opening" that can be removed by a
screwdriver. Given a screwdriver and the choice of breaking/forcing a
bottom floor window or working on a ladder...

Harry K

@Harry K:

Well then I propose that the burglars you met in your jail weren't
really all that good at doing burglaries then...

You would be surprised at what the real good burglars do and use
and put back the way they found it before leaving... The sort where
the victims don't even know they were burglarized until they go
looking for something that isn't where they left it anymore...


Andycomments:

You speak as a person who has inside knowledge of the
practice. I probably should report you to the police, but I
can't seem to find any of my cellphones....... :))))))

Andy in Eureka, Texas

On Oct 22, 3:46*am, Andy wrote:
On Oct 21, 11:31 pm, Evan wrote:





On Oct 21, 10:35 am, Harry K wrote:

On Oct 20, 11:29 am, Evan wrote:

On Oct 20, 8:51 am, dgk wrote:

I have an aluminum extension ladder that I use every other year or so
to get on the roof, otherwise it takes up space in the garage. Can I
just leave it under the deck in the backyard? It will get wet but
shouldn't rust although I guess the rope that operates the extension
will rot and need to be replaced. Will the mechanism itself develop
problems?

As long as you take precautions so that only you can use the ladder,
like storing it in a way such as described by DerbyDad03 but adding
a set of chains and padlocks to secure it so that only you can use
it...

Burglars would love access to a ladder, there are many places on
a house where with a simple screwdriver you can gain access to
a man sized opening if you have a vented attic... *Also many people
often forget to lock windows on upper floors assuming that no one
would ever be able to climb up that high to make use of them...

But you could just install those hangers inside your garage and
keep your ladder up and out of the way inside where you won't
have to worry about it being exposed to the elements or being
something easily accessible to burglars...

~~ Evan

The burglars I know (worked jail for 15 years) are too lazy to go to
all that work.

I can't picture a "vented opening" that can be removed by a
screwdriver. *Given a screwdriver and the choice of breaking/forcing a
bottom floor window or working on a ladder...

Harry K

@Harry K:

Well then I propose that the burglars you met in your jail weren't
really all that good at doing burglaries then...

You would be surprised at what the real good burglars do and use
and put back the way they found it before leaving... *The sort where
the victims don't even know they were burglarized until they go
looking for something that isn't where they left it anymore...

Andycomments:

* You speak as a person who has inside knowledge of the
practice. *I probably should report you *to the police, but I
can't seem to find any of my cellphones....... :))))))

* * * * * * * * * * * * *Andy in Eureka, Texas- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

You probably left that ladder propped up on the house

Harry K

On Fri, 21 Oct 2011 21:29:22 -0700 (PDT), Harry K
wrote:

On Oct 21, 7:43*am, "
wrote:
On Fri, 21 Oct 2011 09:28:10 -0400, dgk wrote:
On Thu, 20 Oct 2011 10:34:00 -0500, "
wrote:

On Thu, 20 Oct 2011 08:51:04 -0400, dgk wrote:

I have an aluminum extension ladder that I use every other year or so
to get on the roof, otherwise it takes up space in the garage. Can I
just leave it under the deck in the backyard? It will get wet but
shouldn't rust although I guess the rope that operates the extension
will rot and need to be replaced. Will the mechanism itself develop
problems?

I hang my ladders from the garage ceiling. *I built boxes over the door to
hold the feet, then mounted 2x4s across the ceiling, with eye hooks in them. I
then hook ropes with doggy clips tied to the ends across the ladders to keep
them against the ceiling (and the feet planted in the boxes). *A rope and
pulley makes them easy to put away.

I thought of that but I'd have to redo the garage door opener to leave
enough room and I don't even know if that's possible. There really is
no way to hang it on the wall or ceiling that doesn't interfere with
something else.

Your door must be really close to the ceiling. *My ladders are stored parallel
to the opener track (ladder feet fit into boxes over the door opening), so
don't interfere with the opener at all. *

No room on the ceiling beside the overhead door? Must be a small garage.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I have a double car garage with the same problem, i.e. no room above
it. Dunno why they built one back in the 50s with a (barely) 7'
ceiling.

Your garage is only 16' wide? Most are at least 20', so there should be space
to hang a ladder outside the tracks. Even if the ladder is hung "on edge", it
should free the (valuable) wall space.

Yeah, 7' ceilings are a PITA. I had to do that with my first house, or move a
couple of windows. My previous house had about 4' above the door (to the
rafters - not finished) and my current garage has 10' ceilings, though there
is only ~12" clearance over the door. The ladders have to be strapped pretty
tightly against the ceiling.

On Fri, 21 Oct 2011 09:43:45 -0500, "
wrote:

On Fri, 21 Oct 2011 09:28:10 -0400, dgk wrote:

On Thu, 20 Oct 2011 10:34:00 -0500, "
wrote:

On Thu, 20 Oct 2011 08:51:04 -0400, dgk wrote:

I have an aluminum extension ladder that I use every other year or so
to get on the roof, otherwise it takes up space in the garage. Can I
just leave it under the deck in the backyard? It will get wet but
shouldn't rust although I guess the rope that operates the extension
will rot and need to be replaced. Will the mechanism itself develop
problems?

I hang my ladders from the garage ceiling. I built boxes over the door to
hold the feet, then mounted 2x4s across the ceiling, with eye hooks in them. I
then hook ropes with doggy clips tied to the ends across the ladders to keep
them against the ceiling (and the feet planted in the boxes). A rope and
pulley makes them easy to put away.

I thought of that but I'd have to redo the garage door opener to leave
enough room and I don't even know if that's possible. There really is
no way to hang it on the wall or ceiling that doesn't interfere with
something else.

Your door must be really close to the ceiling. My ladders are stored parallel
to the opener track (ladder feet fit into boxes over the door opening), so
don't interfere with the opener at all.

No room on the ceiling beside the overhead door? Must be a small garage.

Small house, one of those 18' attached-on-both-side jobs. Adequate for
me though, and much better than having an apartment. Except that I
have to fix everything myself. I'm going to use that ladder to go up
on the roof next weekend and have a look at what's leaking.

On Mon, 24 Oct 2011 08:45:01 -0400, dgk wrote:

On Fri, 21 Oct 2011 09:43:45 -0500, "
wrote:

On Fri, 21 Oct 2011 09:28:10 -0400, dgk wrote:

On Thu, 20 Oct 2011 10:34:00 -0500, "
wrote:

On Thu, 20 Oct 2011 08:51:04 -0400, dgk wrote:

I have an aluminum extension ladder that I use every other year or so
to get on the roof, otherwise it takes up space in the garage. Can I
just leave it under the deck in the backyard? It will get wet but
shouldn't rust although I guess the rope that operates the extension
will rot and need to be replaced. Will the mechanism itself develop
problems?

I hang my ladders from the garage ceiling. I built boxes over the door to
hold the feet, then mounted 2x4s across the ceiling, with eye hooks in them. I
then hook ropes with doggy clips tied to the ends across the ladders to keep
them against the ceiling (and the feet planted in the boxes). A rope and
pulley makes them easy to put away.

I thought of that but I'd have to redo the garage door opener to leave
enough room and I don't even know if that's possible. There really is
no way to hang it on the wall or ceiling that doesn't interfere with
something else.

Your door must be really close to the ceiling. My ladders are stored parallel
to the opener track (ladder feet fit into boxes over the door opening), so
don't interfere with the opener at all.

No room on the ceiling beside the overhead door? Must be a small garage.

Small house, one of those 18' attached-on-both-side jobs. Adequate for
me though, and much better than having an apartment. Except that I
have to fix everything myself. I'm going to use that ladder to go up
on the roof next weekend and have a look at what's leaking.

Yeow. That's not really a 2-car garage. You can only park one. ...and get
out of it. ;-)