I am trying to control an el-cheapo 2 bulb 4' florescent Shop Light with
an MS16A Motion Sensor and an RR501 Transceiver.

The shop light has a 3 prong plug, but the Transceiver only has a 2
prong receptacle, so I used a 3 prong adapter to plug the shop light
into the Transceiver.

What I'm finding is that (99% of the time) when the sensor sends the
signal to turn off the Shop Light, it turns off and then immediately
comes back on. The Transceiver goes click-off-click-on.

I'm pretty confident that it's the Shop Light that's causing the problem
since I've tried it with 2 different Motion Sensors, 2 different
Transceivers and 2 different circuits. I even used 2 different
Transceivers on 2 different circuits, one with the Shop Light and the
other with a regular incandescent table lamp. The incandescent turns off
and stays off, the Shop Light comes right back on. I then swapped the
incandescent and the Shop Light between the Transceivers and the problem
followed the Shop Light. I've tested every possible configuration
multiple times and the problem only occurs with the Shop Light.

Do you think it's the Shop Light itself that's confusing the Transceiver
or the fact that it's not grounded?

Thanks!

On 9/6/2011 17:31, DerbyDad03 wrote:
I am trying to control an el-cheapo 2 bulb 4' florescent Shop Light with
an MS16A Motion Sensor and an RR501 Transceiver.

The shop light has a 3 prong plug, but the Transceiver only has a 2
prong receptacle, so I used a 3 prong adapter to plug the shop light
into the Transceiver.

What I'm finding is that (99% of the time) when the sensor sends the
signal to turn off the Shop Light, it turns off and then immediately
comes back on. The Transceiver goes click-off-click-on.

I've experienced this problem with modern fluorescent lights. My
un-elegant solution was to have a plain old incandescent night light on
the same load. As for grounding, in many cases it's important with shop
lights. Run a jumper wire from the outlet ground to the pigtail on the
adapter plug.

On 09/06/11 8:51 PM, Bob wrote:
On 9/6/2011 17:31, DerbyDad03 wrote:
I am trying to control an el-cheapo 2 bulb 4' florescent Shop Light with
an MS16A Motion Sensor and an RR501 Transceiver.

The shop light has a 3 prong plug, but the Transceiver only has a 2
prong receptacle, so I used a 3 prong adapter to plug the shop light
into the Transceiver.

What I'm finding is that (99% of the time) when the sensor sends the
signal to turn off the Shop Light, it turns off and then immediately
comes back on. The Transceiver goes click-off-click-on.

I've experienced this problem with modern fluorescent lights. My
un-elegant solution was to have a plain old incandescent night light on
the same load. As for grounding, in many cases it's important with shop
lights. Run a jumper wire from the outlet ground to the pigtail on the
adapter plug.



Thanks! I tried the incandescent lamp and it solved the problem.

"Run a jumper wire from the outlet ground to the pigtail on the
adapter plug."

You are assuming there's an outlet ground. Bad assumption. :-(

On 9/6/2011 9:32 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On 09/06/11 8:51 PM, Bob wrote:
On 9/6/2011 17:31, DerbyDad03 wrote:
I am trying to control an el-cheapo 2 bulb 4' florescent Shop Light with
an MS16A Motion Sensor and an RR501 Transceiver.

The shop light has a 3 prong plug, but the Transceiver only has a 2
prong receptacle, so I used a 3 prong adapter to plug the shop light
into the Transceiver.

What I'm finding is that (99% of the time) when the sensor sends the
signal to turn off the Shop Light, it turns off and then immediately
comes back on. The Transceiver goes click-off-click-on.

I've experienced this problem with modern fluorescent lights. My
un-elegant solution was to have a plain old incandescent night light on
the same load. As for grounding, in many cases it's important with shop
lights. Run a jumper wire from the outlet ground to the pigtail on the
adapter plug.



Thanks! I tried the incandescent lamp and it solved the problem.

"Run a jumper wire from the outlet ground to the pigtail on the
adapter plug."

You are assuming there's an outlet ground. Bad assumption. :-(

Your fluorescent shop light's starting circuit is probably getting
tickled by the
X10 "local ON" sensing current. Normally, if a lamp, say is off, and
you want it on,
you can either send the appropriate X10 command, or, using the lamp's
switch, turn
it off and then back on. The module will then turn on. CFLs and some
fluorescent
lamps will cause this problem. I had one CFL that wouldn't come on, but
the lamp
would flicker. Also, LED Christmas light will light dimly on the sense
current. Google 'x10 local on sense current' for info on modifying
appliance modules. I've disconnected
the sense current on several lamp modules that I modified into click
free appliance
modules. No problems now with CFLs or LED Christmas lights.

"Art Todesco" wrote in message news:j46in4

Your fluorescent shop light's starting circuit is probably getting
tickled by the X10 "local ON" sensing current.

Newer appliance modules have a much lower sensing current and do not cause
this problem. I just bought 10 3 prong appliance modules from Xten on
Amazon for less than $9 each, shipping included. I replaced all the older
modules controlling CFL's and fluorescents and voila, no more unintended
"relights" or flickering CFLs. I don't know if they modified their other
modules in the same way. I just know that I plugged in a "automatically
relighting" fluorescent into the new modules at it stayed off. Same with
CFLs that would flash when turned off remotely. No more flashing. Case
closed!

Much easier and safer than modifying existing modules, at least for me -
AND - you don't lose the "local sense" feature that allows you to turn on a
lamp by using the switch on the lamp.

I only found out because I complained about the problem to Jeff Volp and he
clued me in about the new appliance modules on the X-10 list. It's a
win-win situation since you don't have to give up local sense to stop the
flashing or "relighting." At under $10 a load (and with the retired
"flashing" modules having use elsewhere) it was a no-brainer for me. Not
sure when they changed over the design or what that translates into with the
date stickers but IIRC, mine are date from earlier this year. Might even
buy 10 more since someone told me X-10 is folding its tents and declaring
bankruptcy and they might get hard to come by in the future. I'll look up
the date stamp if anyone cares.

That reminds me. I bought a hybrid CFL/Halogen bulb to use with X-10 on
circuits without neutrals at the wall switch. Unlike the regular CFL-only
bulbs that flashed like disco lights the GE hybrid bulb turned on fine, but
it could never be turned off remotely. Oh well.

--
Bobby G.

On 09/07/11 9:51 AM, Robert Green wrote:
"Art wrote in message news:j46in4

Your fluorescent shop light's starting circuit is probably getting
tickled by the X10 "local ON" sensing current.

Newer appliance modules have a much lower sensing current and do not cause
this problem. I just bought 10 3 prong appliance modules from Xten on
Amazon for less than $9 each, shipping included. I replaced all the older
modules controlling CFL's and fluorescents and voila, no more unintended
"relights" or flickering CFLs. I don't know if they modified their other
modules in the same way. I just know that I plugged in a "automatically
relighting" fluorescent into the new modules at it stayed off. Same with
CFLs that would flash when turned off remotely. No more flashing. Case
closed!

Much easier and safer than modifying existing modules, at least for me -
AND - you don't lose the "local sense" feature that allows you to turn on a
lamp by using the switch on the lamp.

I only found out because I complained about the problem to Jeff Volp and he
clued me in about the new appliance modules on the X-10 list. It's a
win-win situation since you don't have to give up local sense to stop the
flashing or "relighting." At under $10 a load (and with the retired
"flashing" modules having use elsewhere) it was a no-brainer for me. Not
sure when they changed over the design or what that translates into with the
date stickers but IIRC, mine are date from earlier this year. Might even
buy 10 more since someone told me X-10 is folding its tents and declaring
bankruptcy and they might get hard to come by in the future. I'll look up
the date stamp if anyone cares.

That reminds me. I bought a hybrid CFL/Halogen bulb to use with X-10 on
circuits without neutrals at the wall switch. Unlike the regular CFL-only
bulbs that flashed like disco lights the GE hybrid bulb turned on fine, but
it could never be turned off remotely. Oh well.

--
Bobby G.



Thanks for the info on the newer appliance modules.

In my application "local sense" will never be required for this fixture.

I'm installing the shop light so that I can walk in the back-yard door
of my basement and have a fixture come on. The basement lights only have
a SPST switch up in the kitchen i.e. no switch in the basement. They are
on an Edison circuit (shared neutral) so adding a 3-way switch would be
a major pain.

By tucking the new shop light up into a joist bay, it's out of sight,
out of mind, but will come on when I come in through the back door - as
long as the main basement lights are off. I'll never be turning the
light on or off via it's own switch.

The days of stumbling through a dark basement to pull the chain on the
utility sink light or flip on the bathroom light should now be over!

On 09/06/11 9:51 PM, Art Todesco wrote:
On 9/6/2011 9:32 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On 09/06/11 8:51 PM, Bob wrote:
On 9/6/2011 17:31, DerbyDad03 wrote:
I am trying to control an el-cheapo 2 bulb 4' florescent Shop Light
with
an MS16A Motion Sensor and an RR501 Transceiver.

The shop light has a 3 prong plug, but the Transceiver only has a 2
prong receptacle, so I used a 3 prong adapter to plug the shop light
into the Transceiver.

What I'm finding is that (99% of the time) when the sensor sends the
signal to turn off the Shop Light, it turns off and then immediately
comes back on. The Transceiver goes click-off-click-on.

I've experienced this problem with modern fluorescent lights. My
un-elegant solution was to have a plain old incandescent night light on
the same load. As for grounding, in many cases it's important with shop
lights. Run a jumper wire from the outlet ground to the pigtail on the
adapter plug.



Thanks! I tried the incandescent lamp and it solved the problem.

"Run a jumper wire from the outlet ground to the pigtail on the
adapter plug."

You are assuming there's an outlet ground. Bad assumption. :-(

Your fluorescent shop light's starting circuit is probably getting
tickled by the
X10 "local ON" sensing current. Normally, if a lamp, say is off, and you
want it on,
you can either send the appropriate X10 command, or, using the lamp's
switch, turn
it off and then back on. The module will then turn on. CFLs and some
fluorescent
lamps will cause this problem. I had one CFL that wouldn't come on, but
the lamp
would flicker. Also, LED Christmas light will light dimly on the sense
current. Google 'x10 local on sense current' for info on modifying
appliance modules. I've disconnected
the sense current on several lamp modules that I modified into click
free appliance
modules. No problems now with CFLs or LED Christmas lights.

I looked at a bunch of sites related to modifying X10 transceivers to
ignore "local on sense current" but I couldn't find any related to the
RR501.

I found a few schematics for the RR501 including some that mention
"mods" (jumpers to cut) but none of them specifically say "disable local
on sense current".

Any idea where I can find info directly related to modifying the RR501?

On 9/7/2011 5:04 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On 09/06/11 9:51 PM, Art Todesco wrote:
On 9/6/2011 9:32 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On 09/06/11 8:51 PM, Bob wrote:
On 9/6/2011 17:31, DerbyDad03 wrote:
I am trying to control an el-cheapo 2 bulb 4' florescent Shop Light
with
an MS16A Motion Sensor and an RR501 Transceiver.

The shop light has a 3 prong plug, but the Transceiver only has a 2
prong receptacle, so I used a 3 prong adapter to plug the shop light
into the Transceiver.

What I'm finding is that (99% of the time) when the sensor sends the
signal to turn off the Shop Light, it turns off and then immediately
comes back on. The Transceiver goes click-off-click-on.

I've experienced this problem with modern fluorescent lights. My
un-elegant solution was to have a plain old incandescent night light on
the same load. As for grounding, in many cases it's important with shop
lights. Run a jumper wire from the outlet ground to the pigtail on the
adapter plug.



Thanks! I tried the incandescent lamp and it solved the problem.

"Run a jumper wire from the outlet ground to the pigtail on the
adapter plug."

You are assuming there's an outlet ground. Bad assumption. :-(

Your fluorescent shop light's starting circuit is probably getting
tickled by the
X10 "local ON" sensing current. Normally, if a lamp, say is off, and you
want it on,
you can either send the appropriate X10 command, or, using the lamp's
switch, turn
it off and then back on. The module will then turn on. CFLs and some
fluorescent
lamps will cause this problem. I had one CFL that wouldn't come on, but
the lamp
would flicker. Also, LED Christmas light will light dimly on the sense
current. Google 'x10 local on sense current' for info on modifying
appliance modules. I've disconnected
the sense current on several lamp modules that I modified into click
free appliance
modules. No problems now with CFLs or LED Christmas lights.

I looked at a bunch of sites related to modifying X10 transceivers to
ignore "local on sense current" but I couldn't find any related to the
RR501.

I found a few schematics for the RR501 including some that mention
"mods" (jumpers to cut) but none of them specifically say "disable local
on sense current".

Any idea where I can find info directly related to modifying the RR501?
So you want to plug the lamp into the RR501? I have a TM751
transceiver, and,
IIRC, there is no local on for the outlet at the bottom of the module.
And, yes, I
just went and verified it. The lamp wouldn't turn on by twiddling the
lamp's on/off
switch. You could always use a regular appliance module, modified as
others have
done, for the fluorescent lamp.

On Tue, 06 Sep 2011 21:32:23 -0400, DerbyDad03
wrote:

"Run a jumper wire from the outlet ground to the pigtail on the
adapter plug."

You are assuming there's an outlet ground. Bad assumption. :-(

So run a wire from any screw on the florescent fixture to any metallic
electrical conduit or any grounded metal electrical box or all the way
to your breaker box. A ground is any metal item connected to the
electrical system, not some mysterious thing only on the 3rd prong of
outlets.

On 09/07/11 1:53 AM, wrote:
On Tue, 06 Sep 2011 21:32:23 -0400,
wrote:

"Run a jumper wire from the outlet ground to the pigtail on the
adapter plug."

You are assuming there's an outlet ground. Bad assumption. :-(

So run a wire from any screw on the florescent fixture to any metallic
electrical conduit or any grounded metal electrical box or all the way
to your breaker box. A ground is any metal item connected to the
electrical system, not some mysterious thing only on the 3rd prong of
outlets.


I was merely commenting on the suggestion to connect the outlet ground
to the adapter, not on the "mysteries" of an electrical grounding system.

"A ground is any metal item connected to the electrical system..."

Really? You might want to rethink that statement.

On Sep 7, 7:48*am, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On 09/07/11 1:53 AM, wrote:

On Tue, 06 Sep 2011 21:32:23 -0400,
wrote:

"Run a jumper wire from the outlet ground to the pigtail on the
adapter plug."

You are assuming there's an outlet ground. Bad assumption. :-(

So run a wire from any screw on the florescent fixture to any metallic
electrical conduit or any grounded metal electrical box or all the way
to your breaker box. *A ground is any metal item connected to the
electrical system, not some mysterious thing only on the 3rd prong of
outlets.

I was merely commenting on the suggestion to connect the outlet ground
to the adapter, not on the "mysteries" of an electrical grounding system.

"A ground is any metal item connected to the electrical system..."

Really? You might want to rethink that statement.

Ground required on flourescent lights. Read the ballast, most say
bulb needs to be within 1/2" of a grounded metal fixture. It's part
of the start up.