Hello,

I have a Lasko 2155A window fan with integrated 3 speed control unit
(links at the end of this post). I want to be able to fine tune the
speed so I want a fully variable speed control unit that I would attach
to the power cord, and control the speed from there instead.

The operator's manual states that the fan must not be used with a solid
state speed control device. I understand that to mean that I must not
simply attempt to vary the voltage, i.e. from 120VAC to 90VAC for
example. I understand that this may cause the amperage to rise, and all
sorts of nasty things may occur after that.

I read a little about the problem and I believe that the integrated
speed control unit controls the speed by varying the AC frequency while
maintaining the same voltage, i.e. from 120VAC 60hz to 120VAC 50hz and
so forth. Though I don't actually know.

I sent a request for information on how to do what I want but I got the
standard "don't do it" reply. As if by some magical mysterious way, I'm
going to change my mind. So no luck from the manufacturer.

I've looked at the Air King 9155 model and I believe it's the same as
the Lasko 2155A. Somebody correct me if I'm wrong. I also believe Lasko
doesn't actually manufacture that model, they only sell it. So that
might explain why I got the standard "don't to it" reply from them. I'll
ask Air King next to see if I have better luck with them.

If any of you have experience with this kind of thing, please advise me
on how to proceed. If there's already a device that I can buy and just
plug in, that would be best. If there's some tinkering to do, it would
depend on the depth and complexity of that tinkering.

Actually what would be best is if I found a similar window fan with an
integrated fully variable speed control unit. Alas, the available choice
of window fans pretty much stops at Air King. Though I understand that
there's a slew of window fans that are not made anymore, like the
Vornado for example, so that might be an option. However, my primary
consideration of any window fan remains a fully variable speed control unit.

Thank you


Martin Levac

http://www.laskoproducts.com/fans/model_2155a.html
http://www.airkinglimited.com/pages/...l/window1.html

"Martin Levac" wrote in message ...

Hello,

I have a Lasko 2155A window fan with integrated 3 speed control unit
(links at the end of this post). I want to be able to fine tune the
speed so I want a fully variable speed control unit that I would attach
to the power cord, and control the speed from there instead.

The operator's manual states that the fan must not be used with a solid
state speed control device. I understand that to mean that I must not
simply attempt to vary the voltage, i.e. from 120VAC to 90VAC for
example. I understand that this may cause the amperage to rise, and all
sorts of nasty things may occur after that.

That's not what it means. It means they don't want any speed control devices
on their fan.



I read a little about the problem and I believe that the integrated
speed control unit controls the speed by varying the AC frequency while
maintaining the same voltage, i.e. from 120VAC 60hz to 120VAC 50hz and
so forth. Though I don't actually know.

That may be so. But it's their design and I don't know what they are doing.

I sent a request for information on how to do what I want but I got the
standard "don't do it" reply. As if by some magical mysterious way, I'm
going to change my mind. So no luck from the manufacturer.

Expected.

I've looked at the Air King 9155 model and I believe it's the same as
the Lasko 2155A. Somebody correct me if I'm wrong. I also believe Lasko
doesn't actually manufacture that model, they only sell it. So that
might explain why I got the standard "don't to it" reply from them. I'll
ask Air King next to see if I have better luck with them.

If any of you have experience with this kind of thing, please advise me
on how to proceed. If there's already a device that I can buy and just
plug in, that would be best. If there's some tinkering to do, it would
depend on the depth and complexity of that tinkering.

Don't do it. Unless you don't mind the consequences.

Actually what would be best is if I found a similar window fan with an
integrated fully variable speed control unit. Alas, the available choice
of window fans pretty much stops at Air King. Though I understand that
there's a slew of window fans that are not made anymore, like the
Vornado for example, so that might be an option. However, my primary
consideration of any window fan remains a fully variable speed control unit.

Thank you


Martin Levac

http://www.laskoproducts.com/fans/model_2155a.html
http://www.airkinglimited.com/pages/...l/window1.html

On 6/20/2011 10:22 PM, Tom Biasi wrote:

That's not what it means. It means they don't want any speed control
devices on their fan.

That may be so. But it's their design and I don't know what they are doing.

Expected.

Don't do it. Unless you don't mind the consequences.

Had nothing better to do tonight huh, Tom?

On Jun 20, 5:21*pm, Martin Levac wrote:
Hello,

I have a Lasko 2155A window fan with integrated 3 speed control unit
(links at the end of this post). I want to be able to fine tune the
speed so I want a fully variable speed control unit that I would attach
to the power cord, and control the speed from there instead.

The operator's manual states that the fan must not be used with a solid
state speed control device. I understand that to mean that I must not
simply attempt to vary the voltage, i.e. from 120VAC to 90VAC for
example. I understand that this may cause the amperage to rise, and all
sorts of nasty things may occur after that.

I read a little about the problem and I believe that the integrated
speed control unit controls the speed by varying the AC frequency while
maintaining the same voltage, i.e. from 120VAC 60hz to 120VAC 50hz and
so forth. Though I don't actually know.

I sent a request for information on how to do what I want but I got the
standard "don't do it" reply. As if by some magical mysterious way, I'm
going to change my mind. So no luck from the manufacturer.

I've looked at the Air King 9155 model and I believe it's the same as
the Lasko 2155A. Somebody correct me if I'm wrong. I also believe Lasko
doesn't actually manufacture that model, they only sell it. So that
might explain why I got the standard "don't to it" reply from them. I'll
ask Air King next to see if I have better luck with them.

If any of you have experience with this kind of thing, please advise me
on how to proceed. If there's already a device that I can buy and just
plug in, that would be best. If there's some tinkering to do, it would
depend on the depth and complexity of that tinkering.

Actually what would be best is if I found a similar window fan with an
integrated fully variable speed control unit. Alas, the available choice
of window fans pretty much stops at Air King. Though I understand that
there's a slew of window fans that are not made anymore, like the
Vornado for example, so that might be an option. However, my primary
consideration of any window fan remains a fully variable speed control unit.

Thank you

Martin Levac

http://www.laskoproducts.com/fans/mo...l/window1.html

The motor is an induction motor, as far as you are concerned this
means the speed is locked to the frequency of the AC line. There are
some tricks in rearranging some connections to the stator winding to
get some different speeds but 3 different speeds are about the limit.
I haven't looked but I bet if you google variable speed induction
motors you will get a lot more info.

Jimmie

On Jun 20, 5:21*pm, Martin Levac wrote:
Hello,

I have a Lasko 2155A window fan with integrated 3 speed control unit
(links at the end of this post). I want to be able to fine tune the
speed so I want a fully variable speed control unit that I would attach
to the power cord, and control the speed from there instead.

The operator's manual states that the fan must not be used with a solid
state speed control device. I understand that to mean that I must not
simply attempt to vary the voltage, i.e. from 120VAC to 90VAC for
example. I understand that this may cause the amperage to rise, and all
sorts of nasty things may occur after that.

I read a little about the problem and I believe that the integrated
speed control unit controls the speed by varying the AC frequency while
maintaining the same voltage, i.e. from 120VAC 60hz to 120VAC 50hz and
so forth. Though I don't actually know.

I sent a request for information on how to do what I want but I got the
standard "don't do it" reply. As if by some magical mysterious way, I'm
going to change my mind. So no luck from the manufacturer.

I've looked at the Air King 9155 model and I believe it's the same as
the Lasko 2155A. Somebody correct me if I'm wrong. I also believe Lasko
doesn't actually manufacture that model, they only sell it. So that
might explain why I got the standard "don't to it" reply from them. I'll
ask Air King next to see if I have better luck with them.

If any of you have experience with this kind of thing, please advise me
on how to proceed. If there's already a device that I can buy and just
plug in, that would be best. If there's some tinkering to do, it would
depend on the depth and complexity of that tinkering.

Actually what would be best is if I found a similar window fan with an
integrated fully variable speed control unit. Alas, the available choice
of window fans pretty much stops at Air King. Though I understand that
there's a slew of window fans that are not made anymore, like the
Vornado for example, so that might be an option. However, my primary
consideration of any window fan remains a fully variable speed control unit.

Thank you

Martin Levac

http://www.laskoproducts.com/fans/mo...l/window1.html

@Martin:

You can not turn a consumer appliance with a cheap induction motor
into a perfectly adjustable device with the same precision of a VFD
motor...
First off, the variable frequency controller would cost more than the
fan
you want to run with it...

The cheapo motor the fan is currently equipped with has several
windings
in it which are energized in the same way a 3-way light bulb is
configured...
Low setting is a smaller winding -- Medium speed is a larger winding
and
Hi speed is all windings on at once...

The bigger question here is why you need to have a totally adjustable
window fan unit -- and just how insane you would be trying to obtain
something which just doesn't exist...

~~ Evan

On Jun 20, 11:14*pm, Evan wrote:
On Jun 20, 5:21*pm, Martin Levac wrote:

I sent a request for information on how to do what I want but I got the
standard "don't do it" reply. As if by some magical mysterious way, I'm
going to change my mind. So no luck from the manufacturer.

Evan, I think you missed ^ this part when you replied.

The bigger question here is why you need to have a totally adjustable
window fan unit -- and just how insane you would be trying to obtain
something which just doesn't exist...

The OP has indicated that it would take magic to change his mind.
Unless you're feeling up on your mojo, I'd give this one a pass.

R

On 6/20/2011 10:55 PM, JIMMIE wrote:
On Jun 20, 5:21 pm, Martin wrote:
Hello,

I have a Lasko 2155A window fan with integrated 3 speed control unit
(links at the end of this post). I want to be able to fine tune the
speed so I want a fully variable speed control unit that I would attach
to the power cord, and control the speed from there instead.

The operator's manual states that the fan must not be used with a solid
state speed control device. I understand that to mean that I must not
simply attempt to vary the voltage, i.e. from 120VAC to 90VAC for
example. I understand that this may cause the amperage to rise, and all
sorts of nasty things may occur after that.

I read a little about the problem and I believe that the integrated
speed control unit controls the speed by varying the AC frequency while
maintaining the same voltage, i.e. from 120VAC 60hz to 120VAC 50hz and
so forth. Though I don't actually know.

I sent a request for information on how to do what I want but I got the
standard "don't do it" reply. As if by some magical mysterious way, I'm
going to change my mind. So no luck from the manufacturer.

I've looked at the Air King 9155 model and I believe it's the same as
the Lasko 2155A. Somebody correct me if I'm wrong. I also believe Lasko
doesn't actually manufacture that model, they only sell it. So that
might explain why I got the standard "don't to it" reply from them. I'll
ask Air King next to see if I have better luck with them.

If any of you have experience with this kind of thing, please advise me
on how to proceed. If there's already a device that I can buy and just
plug in, that would be best. If there's some tinkering to do, it would
depend on the depth and complexity of that tinkering.

Actually what would be best is if I found a similar window fan with an
integrated fully variable speed control unit. Alas, the available choice
of window fans pretty much stops at Air King. Though I understand that
there's a slew of window fans that are not made anymore, like the
Vornado for example, so that might be an option. However, my primary
consideration of any window fan remains a fully variable speed control unit.

Thank you

Martin Levac

http://www.laskoproducts.com/fans/mo...l/window1.html

The motor is an induction motor, as far as you are concerned this
means the speed is locked to the frequency of the AC line. There are
some tricks in rearranging some connections to the stator winding to
get some different speeds but 3 different speeds are about the limit.
I haven't looked but I bet if you google variable speed induction
motors you will get a lot more info.

Jimmie

Since the speed of the motor is locked to the AC frequency, and since
I'm not about to fiddle around the insides of that motor, then it means
I want a device that controls the AC frequency at the power cord. Any
idea how to proceed, Jimmie?

On 6/20/2011 11:14 PM, Evan wrote:
On Jun 20, 5:21 pm, Martin wrote:
Hello,

I have a Lasko 2155A window fan with integrated 3 speed control unit
(links at the end of this post). I want to be able to fine tune the
speed so I want a fully variable speed control unit that I would attach
to the power cord, and control the speed from there instead.

The operator's manual states that the fan must not be used with a solid
state speed control device. I understand that to mean that I must not
simply attempt to vary the voltage, i.e. from 120VAC to 90VAC for
example. I understand that this may cause the amperage to rise, and all
sorts of nasty things may occur after that.

I read a little about the problem and I believe that the integrated
speed control unit controls the speed by varying the AC frequency while
maintaining the same voltage, i.e. from 120VAC 60hz to 120VAC 50hz and
so forth. Though I don't actually know.

I sent a request for information on how to do what I want but I got the
standard "don't do it" reply. As if by some magical mysterious way, I'm
going to change my mind. So no luck from the manufacturer.

I've looked at the Air King 9155 model and I believe it's the same as
the Lasko 2155A. Somebody correct me if I'm wrong. I also believe Lasko
doesn't actually manufacture that model, they only sell it. So that
might explain why I got the standard "don't to it" reply from them. I'll
ask Air King next to see if I have better luck with them.

If any of you have experience with this kind of thing, please advise me
on how to proceed. If there's already a device that I can buy and just
plug in, that would be best. If there's some tinkering to do, it would
depend on the depth and complexity of that tinkering.

Actually what would be best is if I found a similar window fan with an
integrated fully variable speed control unit. Alas, the available choice
of window fans pretty much stops at Air King. Though I understand that
there's a slew of window fans that are not made anymore, like the
Vornado for example, so that might be an option. However, my primary
consideration of any window fan remains a fully variable speed control unit.

Thank you

Martin Levac

http://www.laskoproducts.com/fans/mo...l/window1.html

@Martin:

You can not turn a consumer appliance with a cheap induction motor
into a perfectly adjustable device with the same precision of a VFD
motor...
First off, the variable frequency controller would cost more than the
fan
you want to run with it...

The cheapo motor the fan is currently equipped with has several
windings
in it which are energized in the same way a 3-way light bulb is
configured...
Low setting is a smaller winding -- Medium speed is a larger winding
and
Hi speed is all windings on at once...

The bigger question here is why you need to have a totally adjustable
window fan unit -- and just how insane you would be trying to obtain
something which just doesn't exist...

~~ Evan

From where I'm standing, you're no help at all, Evan. Which brings me
to my next question, can you turn a perfectly useless usenet poster into
a productive and useful usenet poster? And just how insane you would be
trying to obtain something which just doesn't exist...

On 6/21/2011 12:45 AM, RicodJour wrote:
On Jun 20, 11:14 pm, wrote:
On Jun 20, 5:21 pm, Martin wrote:

I sent a request for information on how to do what I want but I got the
standard "don't do it" reply. As if by some magical mysterious way, I'm
going to change my mind. So no luck from the manufacturer.

Evan, I think you missed ^ this part when you replied.

The bigger question here is why you need to have a totally adjustable
window fan unit -- and just how insane you would be trying to obtain
something which just doesn't exist...

The OP has indicated that it would take magic to change his mind.
Unless you're feeling up on your mojo, I'd give this one a pass.

R

Oh the irony. You do realize that you just told somebody "don't do it"
it being him telling me "don't do it", and on newsgroups that deal with
subjects that have pretty much zero tolerance for that kind of bull****,
right?

On Jun 20, 10:21*pm, Martin Levac wrote:
Hello,

I have a Lasko 2155A window fan with integrated 3 speed control unit
(links at the end of this post). I want to be able to fine tune the
speed so I want a fully variable speed control unit that I would attach
to the power cord, and control the speed from there instead.

The operator's manual states that the fan must not be used with a solid
state speed control device. I understand that to mean that I must not
simply attempt to vary the voltage, i.e. from 120VAC to 90VAC for
example. I understand that this may cause the amperage to rise, and all
sorts of nasty things may occur after that.

I read a little about the problem and I believe that the integrated
speed control unit controls the speed by varying the AC frequency while
maintaining the same voltage, i.e. from 120VAC 60hz to 120VAC 50hz and
so forth. Though I don't actually know.

I sent a request for information on how to do what I want but I got the
standard "don't do it" reply. As if by some magical mysterious way, I'm
going to change my mind. So no luck from the manufacturer.

I've looked at the Air King 9155 model and I believe it's the same as
the Lasko 2155A. Somebody correct me if I'm wrong. I also believe Lasko
doesn't actually manufacture that model, they only sell it. So that
might explain why I got the standard "don't to it" reply from them. I'll
ask Air King next to see if I have better luck with them.

If any of you have experience with this kind of thing, please advise me
on how to proceed. If there's already a device that I can buy and just
plug in, that would be best. If there's some tinkering to do, it would
depend on the depth and complexity of that tinkering.

Actually what would be best is if I found a similar window fan with an
integrated fully variable speed control unit. Alas, the available choice
of window fans pretty much stops at Air King. Though I understand that
there's a slew of window fans that are not made anymore, like the
Vornado for example, so that might be an option. However, my primary
consideration of any window fan remains a fully variable speed control unit.

Thank you

Martin Levac

http://www.laskoproducts.com/fans/mo...l/window1.html

The reason for this is that most electronic speed
control devices produce non-sinusoidal waveforms.
This causes the motors to overheat due to Increased
"iron losses".
Some can stand it, some can't.
Obviously, yours is a "can't"

On Jun 20, 5:21*pm, Martin Levac wrote:
Hello,

I have a Lasko 2155A window fan with integrated 3 speed control unit
(links at the end of this post). I want to be able to fine tune the
speed so I want a fully variable speed control unit that I would attach
to the power cord, and control the speed from there instead.

The operator's manual states that the fan must not be used with a solid
state speed control device. I understand that to mean that I must not
simply attempt to vary the voltage, i.e. from 120VAC to 90VAC for
example. I understand that this may cause the amperage to rise, and all
sorts of nasty things may occur after that.

I read a little about the problem and I believe that the integrated
speed control unit controls the speed by varying the AC frequency while
maintaining the same voltage, i.e. from 120VAC 60hz to 120VAC 50hz and
so forth. Though I don't actually know.

I sent a request for information on how to do what I want but I got the
standard "don't do it" reply. As if by some magical mysterious way, I'm
going to change my mind. So no luck from the manufacturer.

I've looked at the Air King 9155 model and I believe it's the same as
the Lasko 2155A. Somebody correct me if I'm wrong. I also believe Lasko
doesn't actually manufacture that model, they only sell it. So that
might explain why I got the standard "don't to it" reply from them. I'll
ask Air King next to see if I have better luck with them.

If any of you have experience with this kind of thing, please advise me
on how to proceed. If there's already a device that I can buy and just
plug in, that would be best. If there's some tinkering to do, it would
depend on the depth and complexity of that tinkering.

Actually what would be best is if I found a similar window fan with an
integrated fully variable speed control unit. Alas, the available choice
of window fans pretty much stops at Air King. Though I understand that
there's a slew of window fans that are not made anymore, like the
Vornado for example, so that might be an option. However, my primary
consideration of any window fan remains a fully variable speed control unit.

Thank you

Martin Levac

http://www.laskoproducts.com/fans/mo...l/window1.html

WHERE DO YOU LIVE, IN A GHETTO?
PUT UP AN AIR CONDITIONER LIKE NORMAL PEOPLE DO.

IF THAT OFFENDS YOU THEN PUT YOUR FAN ON HIGH AND ADD YOUR CRAZY SPEED
CONTROL GADGET, IF THAT WINDING BURNS OUT SWITCH IT TO MEDIUM, AND
WHEN THE MEDIUM SETTING BURNS OUT, SWITCH IT TO LOW.......AFTER THAT
YOU CAN THROW IT OUT SPENT AND INSTALL AN AC.
YOU BUMB!
TGITM

In article ,
"Tom Biasi" wrote:

The operator's manual states that the fan must not be used with a solid
state speed control device. I understand that to mean that I must not
simply attempt to vary the voltage, i.e. from 120VAC to 90VAC for
example. I understand that this may cause the amperage to rise, and all
sorts of nasty things may occur after that.

I don't know the details. It would be mighty peculiar controller that
would change frequency without changing voltage. As a general rule, you
should be able to run typical induction motors below synchronous speed
by changing the frequency to less than line frequency. BUT you have to
lower the voltage in proportion to the frequency so as not to get
excessive no load current.

If you do that, the only consequence is lower maximum torque. For a fan,
that should not be a problem.

This assumes that between your own controller and the actual motor
itself there is no other controller or circuitry that does not like
yours.

--

Sam

Conservatives are against Darwinism but for natural selection.
Liberals are for Darwinism but totally against any selection.

In article
,
Evan wrote:

On Jun 20, 5:21*pm, Martin Levac wrote:
Hello,

I have a Lasko 2155A window fan with integrated 3 speed control unit
(links at the end of this post). I want to be able to fine tune the
speed so I want a fully variable speed control unit that I would attach
to the power cord, and control the speed from there instead.

The operator's manual states that the fan must not be used with a solid
state speed control device. I understand that to mean that I must not
simply attempt to vary the voltage, i.e. from 120VAC to 90VAC for
example. I understand that this may cause the amperage to rise, and all
sorts of nasty things may occur after that.

I read a little about the problem and I believe that the integrated
speed control unit controls the speed by varying the AC frequency while
maintaining the same voltage, i.e. from 120VAC 60hz to 120VAC 50hz and
so forth. Though I don't actually know.

I sent a request for information on how to do what I want but I got the
standard "don't do it" reply. As if by some magical mysterious way, I'm
going to change my mind. So no luck from the manufacturer.

I've looked at the Air King 9155 model and I believe it's the same as
the Lasko 2155A. Somebody correct me if I'm wrong. I also believe Lasko
doesn't actually manufacture that model, they only sell it. So that
might explain why I got the standard "don't to it" reply from them. I'll
ask Air King next to see if I have better luck with them.

If any of you have experience with this kind of thing, please advise me
on how to proceed. If there's already a device that I can buy and just
plug in, that would be best. If there's some tinkering to do, it would
depend on the depth and complexity of that tinkering.

Actually what would be best is if I found a similar window fan with an
integrated fully variable speed control unit. Alas, the available choice
of window fans pretty much stops at Air King. Though I understand that
there's a slew of window fans that are not made anymore, like the
Vornado for example, so that might be an option. However, my primary
consideration of any window fan remains a fully variable speed control
unit.

Thank you

Martin Levac

http://www.laskoproducts.com/fans/mo...airkinglimited.
com/pages/industrial/window1.html

@Martin:

You can not turn a consumer appliance with a cheap induction motor
into a perfectly adjustable device with the same precision of a VFD
motor...
First off, the variable frequency controller would cost more than the
fan
you want to run with it...

The cheapo motor the fan is currently equipped with has several
windings
in it which are energized in the same way a 3-way light bulb is
configured...
Low setting is a smaller winding -- Medium speed is a larger winding
and
Hi speed is all windings on at once...

The bigger question here is why you need to have a totally adjustable
window fan unit -- and just how insane you would be trying to obtain
something which just doesn't exist...

~~ Evan

There may be some tricks I do not know about but the only way I can
think to make cheap three speed induction motors that are also
reasonably efficient and without costly electronics is to switch the
wiring to change the effective number of poles.

I am now curious enough to look that up.

--

Sam

Conservatives are against Darwinism but for natural selection.
Liberals are for Darwinism but totally against any selection.

On Jun 21, 12:50*am, Martin Levac wrote:
On 6/20/2011 10:55 PM, JIMMIE wrote:





On Jun 20, 5:21 pm, Martin *wrote:
Hello,

I have a Lasko 2155A window fan with integrated 3 speed control unit
(links at the end of this post). I want to be able to fine tune the
speed so I want a fully variable speed control unit that I would attach
to the power cord, and control the speed from there instead.

The operator's manual states that the fan must not be used with a solid
state speed control device. I understand that to mean that I must not
simply attempt to vary the voltage, i.e. from 120VAC to 90VAC for
example. I understand that this may cause the amperage to rise, and all
sorts of nasty things may occur after that.

I read a little about the problem and I believe that the integrated
speed control unit controls the speed by varying the AC frequency while
maintaining the same voltage, i.e. from 120VAC 60hz to 120VAC 50hz and
so forth. Though I don't actually know.

I sent a request for information on how to do what I want but I got the
standard "don't do it" reply. As if by some magical mysterious way, I'm
going to change my mind. So no luck from the manufacturer.

I've looked at the Air King 9155 model and I believe it's the same as
the Lasko 2155A. Somebody correct me if I'm wrong. I also believe Lasko
doesn't actually manufacture that model, they only sell it. So that
might explain why I got the standard "don't to it" reply from them. I'll
ask Air King next to see if I have better luck with them.

If any of you have experience with this kind of thing, please advise me
on how to proceed. If there's already a device that I can buy and just
plug in, that would be best. If there's some tinkering to do, it would
depend on the depth and complexity of that tinkering.

Actually what would be best is if I found a similar window fan with an
integrated fully variable speed control unit. Alas, the available choice
of window fans pretty much stops at Air King. Though I understand that
there's a slew of window fans that are not made anymore, like the
Vornado for example, so that might be an option. However, my primary
consideration of any window fan remains a fully variable speed control unit.

Thank you

Martin Levac

http://www.laskoproducts.com/fans/mo...//www.airkingl....

The motor is an induction motor, as far as you are concerned this
means the speed is locked to the frequency of *the AC line. There are
some tricks in rearranging some connections to the stator winding to
get some different speeds but 3 different speeds are about the limit.
I haven't looked but I bet if you google variable speed induction
motors you will get a lot more info.

Jimmie

Since the speed of the motor is locked to the AC frequency, and since
I'm not about to fiddle around the insides of that motor, then it means
I want a device that controls the AC frequency at the power cord. Any
idea how to proceed, Jimmie?- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

The problem is that you can't simply continue to lower the frequency
as the lower the frequency the less effective the induction is. Also
you will find that variable frequency controllers are pricey.

Your best bet is to find a motor with brushes that you can vary the
speed of with common speed controllers.

On 6/21/2011 4:25 AM, The Ghost In The Machine wrote:
On Jun 20, 5:21 pm, Martin wrote:
Hello,

I have a Lasko 2155A window fan with integrated 3 speed control unit
(links at the end of this post). I want to be able to fine tune the
speed so I want a fully variable speed control unit that I would attach
to the power cord, and control the speed from there instead.

The operator's manual states that the fan must not be used with a solid
state speed control device. I understand that to mean that I must not
simply attempt to vary the voltage, i.e. from 120VAC to 90VAC for
example. I understand that this may cause the amperage to rise, and all
sorts of nasty things may occur after that.

I read a little about the problem and I believe that the integrated
speed control unit controls the speed by varying the AC frequency while
maintaining the same voltage, i.e. from 120VAC 60hz to 120VAC 50hz and
so forth. Though I don't actually know.

I sent a request for information on how to do what I want but I got the
standard "don't do it" reply. As if by some magical mysterious way, I'm
going to change my mind. So no luck from the manufacturer.

I've looked at the Air King 9155 model and I believe it's the same as
the Lasko 2155A. Somebody correct me if I'm wrong. I also believe Lasko
doesn't actually manufacture that model, they only sell it. So that
might explain why I got the standard "don't to it" reply from them. I'll
ask Air King next to see if I have better luck with them.

If any of you have experience with this kind of thing, please advise me
on how to proceed. If there's already a device that I can buy and just
plug in, that would be best. If there's some tinkering to do, it would
depend on the depth and complexity of that tinkering.

Actually what would be best is if I found a similar window fan with an
integrated fully variable speed control unit. Alas, the available choice
of window fans pretty much stops at Air King. Though I understand that
there's a slew of window fans that are not made anymore, like the
Vornado for example, so that might be an option. However, my primary
consideration of any window fan remains a fully variable speed control unit.

Thank you

Martin Levac

http://www.laskoproducts.com/fans/mo...l/window1.html

WHERE DO YOU LIVE, IN A GHETTO?
PUT UP AN AIR CONDITIONER LIKE NORMAL PEOPLE DO.

IF THAT OFFENDS YOU THEN PUT YOUR FAN ON HIGH AND ADD YOUR CRAZY SPEED
CONTROL GADGET, IF THAT WINDING BURNS OUT SWITCH IT TO MEDIUM, AND
WHEN THE MEDIUM SETTING BURNS OUT, SWITCH IT TO LOW.......AFTER THAT
YOU CAN THROW IT OUT SPENT AND INSTALL AN AC.
YOU BUMB!
TGITM

WASSAMATTAH, CAPS KEY STUCK DUMBITCH? WHY DONT YOU BUY A KEYBORED LIKE
NORMAL PEUPLES DO? YOU DUMS!!!!!!111111

IF THAT OFFENDS YOU... **** ME, YOU TOOO DUMB TO BE OFFENDED DUMBICH!!111

On 6/21/2011 7:52 AM, jamesgangnc wrote:

The problem is that you can't simply continue to lower the frequency
as the lower the frequency the less effective the induction is. Also
you will find that variable frequency controllers are pricey.

Your best bet is to find a motor with brushes that you can vary the
speed of with common speed controllers.

I did find that. Cheapest VFD at a glance was $325. Although I don't see
why they should be. Maybe these things are too specialized to be made
cheaply.

It's a fan and there's little I can do about its design. It must be
quiet and that is partly why I want full control over the speed.

On Jun 21, 8:21*am, Martin Levac wrote:
On 6/21/2011 7:52 AM, jamesgangnc wrote:



The problem is that you can't simply continue to lower the frequency
as the lower the frequency the less effective the induction is. *Also
you will find that variable frequency controllers are pricey.

Your best bet is to find a motor with brushes that you can vary the
speed of with common speed controllers.

I did find that. Cheapest VFD at a glance was $325. Although I don't see
why they should be. Maybe these things are too specialized to be made
cheaply.

It's a fan and there's little I can do about its design. It must be
quiet and that is partly why I want full control over the speed.

That's part of it. There is not a high demand. Theoretetically an
inverter design could be adapted to a variable frequency output. But
you still have to convert to dc, then convert back to ac with a
variable frequency switching supply of some sort. And you are still
limited by the ability of the induction motor to operate at lower
frequencies. Even 30hz, which is just half, is far worse at
induction.

Practically all small fans will be built with an induction motor and
speed control will be done via multiple sets of windings. Brushed
motors are more costly and have issues with brush wear and electrical
noise. They are seldom found in home appliances. I have seen them in
blenders though. Probably because blenders have a lot of speeds.

Your most effective solution, barring finding a fan with a non
induction motor, would be to replace the motor. That will probably
involve some minor fabrication unless you are really lucky. Another
option would be a DC motor and a variable output dc power supply.

But as you have found, there is no simple plug in solution for your
problem.

Perhaps a smaller fan. Or put the fan in a window further away from
you. If you leave the nearby window open you will still be in the
cross breeze.

On Jun 21, 8:21*am, Martin Levac wrote:
On 6/21/2011 7:52 AM, jamesgangnc wrote:

The problem is that you can't simply continue to lower the frequency
as the lower the frequency the less effective the induction is. *Also
you will find that variable frequency controllers are pricey.

Your best bet is to find a motor with brushes that you can vary the
speed of with common speed controllers.

I did find that. Cheapest VFD at a glance was $325. Although I don't see
why they should be. Maybe these things are too specialized to be made
cheaply.

It's a fan and there's little I can do about its design. It must be
quiet and that is partly why I want full control over the speed.

There's little you can do? Come on, Sparky! Design and build one
yourself. It's not magic. Build a bank of 12v computer fans -
they're quiet enough. Or spring for a fan that does what you want
without 'fixing it'.

BTW, I'd never tell someone not to do something that has the potential
of keeping me entertained.

R

"Martin Levac" wrote in message ...

On 6/20/2011 10:22 PM, Tom Biasi wrote:

That's not what it means. It means they don't want any speed control
devices on their fan.

That may be so. But it's their design and I don't know what they are
doing.

Expected.

Don't do it. Unless you don't mind the consequences.

Had nothing better to do tonight huh, Tom?

You are not obligated to consider anything that I say.

Martin Levac wrote:
Hello,

I have a Lasko 2155A window fan with integrated 3 speed control unit
(links at the end of this post). I want to be able to fine tune the
speed so I want a fully variable speed control unit that I would
attach to the power cord, and control the speed from there instead.

The operator's manual states that the fan must not be used with a
solid state speed control device. I understand that to mean that I
must not simply attempt to vary the voltage, i.e. from 120VAC to
90VAC for example. I understand that this may cause the amperage to rise,
and
all sorts of nasty things may occur after that.

I read a little about the problem and I believe that the integrated
speed control unit controls the speed by varying the AC frequency
while maintaining the same voltage, i.e. from 120VAC 60hz to 120VAC
50hz and so forth. Though I don't actually know.

I sent a request for information on how to do what I want but I got
the standard "don't do it" reply. As if by some magical mysterious
way, I'm going to change my mind. So no luck from the manufacturer.

I've looked at the Air King 9155 model and I believe it's the same as
the Lasko 2155A. Somebody correct me if I'm wrong. I also believe
Lasko doesn't actually manufacture that model, they only sell it. So
that might explain why I got the standard "don't to it" reply from them.
I'll ask Air King next to see if I have better luck with them.

If any of you have experience with this kind of thing, please advise
me on how to proceed. If there's already a device that I can buy and just
plug in, that would be best. If there's some tinkering to do, it would
depend on the depth and complexity of that tinkering.

Actually what would be best is if I found a similar window fan with an
integrated fully variable speed control unit. Alas, the available
choice of window fans pretty much stops at Air King. Though I understand
that
there's a slew of window fans that are not made anymore, like the
Vornado for example, so that might be an option. However, my primary
consideration of any window fan remains a fully variable speed
control unit.

Consider a piece of cardboard and some duct tape. Jeeze!

On Jun 21, 12:57*am, Martin Levac wrote:
On 6/20/2011 11:14 PM, Evan wrote:



On Jun 20, 5:21 pm, Martin *wrote:
Hello,

I have a Lasko 2155A window fan with integrated 3 speed control unit
(links at the end of this post). I want to be able to fine tune the
speed so I want a fully variable speed control unit that I would attach
to the power cord, and control the speed from there instead.

The operator's manual states that the fan must not be used with a solid
state speed control device. I understand that to mean that I must not
simply attempt to vary the voltage, i.e. from 120VAC to 90VAC for
example. I understand that this may cause the amperage to rise, and all
sorts of nasty things may occur after that.

I read a little about the problem and I believe that the integrated
speed control unit controls the speed by varying the AC frequency while
maintaining the same voltage, i.e. from 120VAC 60hz to 120VAC 50hz and
so forth. Though I don't actually know.

I sent a request for information on how to do what I want but I got the
standard "don't do it" reply. As if by some magical mysterious way, I'm
going to change my mind. So no luck from the manufacturer.

I've looked at the Air King 9155 model and I believe it's the same as
the Lasko 2155A. Somebody correct me if I'm wrong. I also believe Lasko
doesn't actually manufacture that model, they only sell it. So that
might explain why I got the standard "don't to it" reply from them. I'll
ask Air King next to see if I have better luck with them.

If any of you have experience with this kind of thing, please advise me
on how to proceed. If there's already a device that I can buy and just
plug in, that would be best. If there's some tinkering to do, it would
depend on the depth and complexity of that tinkering.

Actually what would be best is if I found a similar window fan with an
integrated fully variable speed control unit. Alas, the available choice
of window fans pretty much stops at Air King. Though I understand that
there's a slew of window fans that are not made anymore, like the
Vornado for example, so that might be an option. However, my primary
consideration of any window fan remains a fully variable speed control unit.

Thank you

Martin Levac

http://www.laskoproducts.com/fans/mo...//www.airkingl....

@Martin:

You can not turn a consumer appliance with a cheap induction motor
into a perfectly adjustable device with the same precision of a VFD
motor...
First off, the variable frequency controller would cost more than the
fan
you want to run with it...

The cheapo motor the fan is currently equipped with has several
windings
in it which are energized in the same way a 3-way light bulb is
configured...
Low setting is a smaller winding -- Medium speed is a larger winding
and
Hi speed is all windings on at once...

The bigger question here is why you need to have a totally adjustable
window fan unit -- and just how insane you would be trying to obtain
something which just doesn't exist...

~~ Evan

*From where I'm standing, you're no help at all, Evan. Which brings me
to my next question, can you turn a perfectly useless usenet poster into
a productive and useful usenet poster? And just how insane you would be
trying to obtain something which just doesn't exist...

YOU ARE NOT going to find a cord control capable of what you want to
do... You could build a controller to do what you want but it would
need
to be in a large metal box like the motor controllers for industrial
motors and
HVAC equipment get installed in... Remember (Variable Frequency
Drive)...

You are asking something along the lines of "how do I install cabinet
rated
electrical equipment into an extension cord control"...

Get the picture ?

~~ Evan

On Jun 21, 8:38*am, jamesgangnc wrote:
On Jun 21, 8:21*am, Martin Levac wrote:



On 6/21/2011 7:52 AM, jamesgangnc wrote:

The problem is that you can't simply continue to lower the frequency
as the lower the frequency the less effective the induction is. *Also
you will find that variable frequency controllers are pricey.

Your best bet is to find a motor with brushes that you can vary the
speed of with common speed controllers.

I did find that. Cheapest VFD at a glance was $325. Although I don't see
why they should be. Maybe these things are too specialized to be made
cheaply.

It's a fan and there's little I can do about its design. It must be
quiet and that is partly why I want full control over the speed.

That's part of it. *There is not a high demand. *Theoretetically an
inverter design could be adapted to a variable frequency output. *But
you still have to convert to dc, then convert back to ac with a
variable frequency switching supply of some sort. *And you are still
limited by the ability of the induction motor to operate at lower
frequencies. *Even 30hz, which is just half, is far worse at
induction.

Practically all small fans will be built with an induction motor and
speed control will be done via multiple sets of windings. *Brushed
motors are more costly and have issues with brush wear and electrical
noise. *They are seldom found in home appliances. *I have seen them in
blenders though. *Probably because blenders have a lot of speeds.

Your most effective solution, barring finding a fan with a non
induction motor, would be to replace the motor. *That will probably
involve some minor fabrication unless you are really lucky. *Another
option would be a DC motor and a variable output dc power supply.

But as you have found, there is no simple plug in solution for your
problem.

Perhaps a smaller fan. *Or put the fan in a window further away from
you. *If you leave the nearby window open you will still be in the
cross breeze.

+1 to this...

A DC motor in a fan will be easier to control in the manner you
desire and wish to control your fan in for whatever unknown and
insane reasons.you have yet to disclose...

~~ Evan

On 6/21/2011 8:55 AM, RicodJour wrote:
On Jun 21, 8:21 am, Martin wrote:
On 6/21/2011 7:52 AM, jamesgangnc wrote:

The problem is that you can't simply continue to lower the frequency
as the lower the frequency the less effective the induction is. Also
you will find that variable frequency controllers are pricey.

Your best bet is to find a motor with brushes that you can vary the
speed of with common speed controllers.

I did find that. Cheapest VFD at a glance was $325. Although I don't see
why they should be. Maybe these things are too specialized to be made
cheaply.

It's a fan and there's little I can do about its design. It must be
quiet and that is partly why I want full control over the speed.

There's little you can do? Come on, Sparky! Design and build one
yourself. It's not magic. Build a bank of 12v computer fans -
they're quiet enough. Or spring for a fan that does what you want
without 'fixing it'.

BTW, I'd never tell someone not to do something that has the potential
of keeping me entertained.

R

We all know what you did. It wasn't your smartest move.

On 6/21/2011 12:56 PM, Evan wrote:
On Jun 21, 12:57 am, Martin wrote:
On 6/20/2011 11:14 PM, Evan wrote:



On Jun 20, 5:21 pm, Martin wrote:
Hello,

I have a Lasko 2155A window fan with integrated 3 speed control unit
(links at the end of this post). I want to be able to fine tune the
speed so I want a fully variable speed control unit that I would attach
to the power cord, and control the speed from there instead.

The operator's manual states that the fan must not be used with a solid
state speed control device. I understand that to mean that I must not
simply attempt to vary the voltage, i.e. from 120VAC to 90VAC for
example. I understand that this may cause the amperage to rise, and all
sorts of nasty things may occur after that.

I read a little about the problem and I believe that the integrated
speed control unit controls the speed by varying the AC frequency while
maintaining the same voltage, i.e. from 120VAC 60hz to 120VAC 50hz and
so forth. Though I don't actually know.

I sent a request for information on how to do what I want but I got the
standard "don't do it" reply. As if by some magical mysterious way, I'm
going to change my mind. So no luck from the manufacturer.

I've looked at the Air King 9155 model and I believe it's the same as
the Lasko 2155A. Somebody correct me if I'm wrong. I also believe Lasko
doesn't actually manufacture that model, they only sell it. So that
might explain why I got the standard "don't to it" reply from them. I'll
ask Air King next to see if I have better luck with them.

If any of you have experience with this kind of thing, please advise me
on how to proceed. If there's already a device that I can buy and just
plug in, that would be best. If there's some tinkering to do, it would
depend on the depth and complexity of that tinkering.

Actually what would be best is if I found a similar window fan with an
integrated fully variable speed control unit. Alas, the available choice
of window fans pretty much stops at Air King. Though I understand that
there's a slew of window fans that are not made anymore, like the
Vornado for example, so that might be an option. However, my primary
consideration of any window fan remains a fully variable speed control unit.

Thank you

Martin Levac

http://www.laskoproducts.com/fans/mo...//www.airkingl...

@Martin:

You can not turn a consumer appliance with a cheap induction motor
into a perfectly adjustable device with the same precision of a VFD
motor...
First off, the variable frequency controller would cost more than the
fan
you want to run with it...

The cheapo motor the fan is currently equipped with has several
windings
in it which are energized in the same way a 3-way light bulb is
configured...
Low setting is a smaller winding -- Medium speed is a larger winding
and
Hi speed is all windings on at once...

The bigger question here is why you need to have a totally adjustable
window fan unit -- and just how insane you would be trying to obtain
something which just doesn't exist...

~~ Evan

From where I'm standing, you're no help at all, Evan. Which brings me
to my next question, can you turn a perfectly useless usenet poster into
a productive and useful usenet poster? And just how insane you would be
trying to obtain something which just doesn't exist...

YOU ARE NOT going to find a cord control capable of what you want to
do... You could build a controller to do what you want but it would
need
to be in a large metal box like the motor controllers for industrial
motors and
HVAC equipment get installed in... Remember (Variable Frequency
Drive)...

You are asking something along the lines of "how do I install cabinet
rated
electrical equipment into an extension cord control"...

Get the picture ?

~~ Evan

Nope, still no help at all. Get the picture?

On 6/21/2011 11:56 AM, HeyBub wrote:

Consider a piece of cardboard and some duct tape. Jeeze!



That would have been funny 5 minutes ago. Alarm clock broken? Well, you
know what to fix it with at least.

On Jun 21, 8:12*am, Martin Levac wrote:
On 6/21/2011 4:25 AM, The Ghost In The Machine wrote:





On Jun 20, 5:21 pm, Martin *wrote:
Hello,

I have a Lasko 2155A window fan with integrated 3 speed control unit
(links at the end of this post). I want to be able to fine tune the
speed so I want a fully variable speed control unit that I would attach
to the power cord, and control the speed from there instead.

The operator's manual states that the fan must not be used with a solid
state speed control device. I understand that to mean that I must not
simply attempt to vary the voltage, i.e. from 120VAC to 90VAC for
example. I understand that this may cause the amperage to rise, and all
sorts of nasty things may occur after that.

I read a little about the problem and I believe that the integrated
speed control unit controls the speed by varying the AC frequency while
maintaining the same voltage, i.e. from 120VAC 60hz to 120VAC 50hz and
so forth. Though I don't actually know.

I sent a request for information on how to do what I want but I got the
standard "don't do it" reply. As if by some magical mysterious way, I'm
going to change my mind. So no luck from the manufacturer.

I've looked at the Air King 9155 model and I believe it's the same as
the Lasko 2155A. Somebody correct me if I'm wrong. I also believe Lasko
doesn't actually manufacture that model, they only sell it. So that
might explain why I got the standard "don't to it" reply from them. I'll
ask Air King next to see if I have better luck with them.

If any of you have experience with this kind of thing, please advise me
on how to proceed. If there's already a device that I can buy and just
plug in, that would be best. If there's some tinkering to do, it would
depend on the depth and complexity of that tinkering.

Actually what would be best is if I found a similar window fan with an
integrated fully variable speed control unit. Alas, the available choice
of window fans pretty much stops at Air King. Though I understand that
there's a slew of window fans that are not made anymore, like the
Vornado for example, so that might be an option. However, my primary
consideration of any window fan remains a fully variable speed control unit.

Thank you

Martin Levac

http://www.laskoproducts.com/fans/mo...//www.airkingl....

WHERE DO YOU LIVE, IN A GHETTO?
PUT UP AN AIR CONDITIONER LIKE NORMAL PEOPLE DO.

IF THAT OFFENDS YOU THEN PUT YOUR FAN ON HIGH AND ADD YOUR CRAZY SPEED
CONTROL GADGET, IF THAT WINDING BURNS OUT SWITCH IT TO MEDIUM, AND
WHEN THE MEDIUM SETTING BURNS OUT, SWITCH IT TO LOW.......AFTER THAT
YOU CAN THROW IT OUT SPENT AND INSTALL AN AC.
YOU BUMB!
TGITM

WASSAMATTAH, CAPS KEY STUCK DUMBITCH? WHY DONT YOU BUY A KEYBORED LIKE
NORMAL PEUPLES DO? YOU DUMS!!!!!!111111

IF THAT OFFENDS YOU... **** ME, YOU TOOO DUMB TO BE OFFENDED DUMBICH!!111

SO YOU HAD TO GO THERE YOU LOWLIFE SCUMSUCKING MARTINETTE.
HAVE IT YOUR WAY FOOL.......YOU ARE LIKE A COCKROACH INVESTATION
JAMMING AND MUCKING UP YOUR KEYBOARD AND THIS GROUP...OH AND DONT TALK
ABOUT YOUR MAMMA THAT WAY, ASSHOLE!
TGITM

TGITM

Martin Levac wrote:
On 6/21/2011 12:56 PM, Evan wrote:
On Jun 21, 12:57 am, Martin wrote:
On 6/20/2011 11:14 PM, Evan wrote:



On Jun 20, 5:21 pm, Martin wrote:
Hello,

I have a Lasko 2155A window fan with integrated 3 speed control unit
(links at the end of this post). I want to be able to fine tune the
speed so I want a fully variable speed control unit that I would
attach
to the power cord, and control the speed from there instead.

The operator's manual states that the fan must not be used with a
solid
state speed control device. I understand that to mean that I must not
simply attempt to vary the voltage, i.e. from 120VAC to 90VAC for
example. I understand that this may cause the amperage to rise, and
all
sorts of nasty things may occur after that.

Nope, still no help at all. Get the picture?

Some small induction motors, particularly if driving a load like a fan,
can be made to run at a slower speed by simply decreasing the voltage.
As has been mentioned, the usual solid state control removes part of the
AC waveform, which may result in motor overheating.

This can be done with a tapped autotransformer or simply with a series
resistor(s). A variable resistor of sufficient power rating would give
limited stepless speed control.

I have a condenser fan on my refrigerator that the repairman replaced
with one that sounded like a jet taking off! I dropped the voltage to
about 90 volts and it's been happily and quietly running for the past
five years.

You'll never know if your particular motor behaves in this way until you
try it. It may run fine at a lower voltage, but not start. In this
case you need to insure it's always started with the higher voltage.

--
Virg Wall

I cannot believe how difficult it has been to get technical information
for the kind of three speed fan being discussed. I Googled various
terms. Without heavy restrictions, millions of hits were made without
solid information.

I did find something that showed how to switch from two-pole to
four-pole operation on for a single phase induction motor.

I did find an ambiguous description on how to get three (or) more speeds
from a universal motor by switching what would be the field winding of a
series dc motor. Good fans seem to operate with motors without
commutators. I do not know if universal motors are used with fans. I
would think induction motors would be more reliable and cheaper.

If someone has good links, please pass them along.

I did get to a catalog posting of a motor controller, offered by
Granger. I think it was a variable frequency drive. If so, the output
voltage was not reduced at low frequency.

--

Sam

Conservatives are against Darwinism but for natural selection.
Liberals are for Darwinism but totally against any selection.

VWWall wrote:

Martin Levac wrote:
On 6/21/2011 12:56 PM, Evan wrote:
On Jun 21, 12:57 am, Martin wrote:
On 6/20/2011 11:14 PM, Evan wrote:



On Jun 20, 5:21 pm, Martin wrote:
Hello,

I have a Lasko 2155A window fan with integrated 3 speed control unit
(links at the end of this post). I want to be able to fine tune the
speed so I want a fully variable speed control unit that I would
attach
to the power cord, and control the speed from there instead.

The operator's manual states that the fan must not be used with a
solid
state speed control device. I understand that to mean that I must not
simply attempt to vary the voltage, i.e. from 120VAC to 90VAC for
example. I understand that this may cause the amperage to rise, and
all
sorts of nasty things may occur after that.

Nope, still no help at all. Get the picture?

Some small induction motors, particularly if driving a load like a fan,
can be made to run at a slower speed by simply decreasing the voltage.
As has been mentioned, the usual solid state control removes part of the
AC waveform, which may result in motor overheating.

This can be done with a tapped autotransformer or simply with a series
resistor(s). A variable resistor of sufficient power rating would give
limited stepless speed control.

I have a condenser fan on my refrigerator that the repairman replaced
with one that sounded like a jet taking off! I dropped the voltage to
about 90 volts and it's been happily and quietly running for the past
five years.

You'll never know if your particular motor behaves in this way until you
try it. It may run fine at a lower voltage, but not start. In this
case you need to insure it's always started with the higher voltage.


Virg, you're wasting your time. This is crosposted from
alt.home.repair which is full of trolls and dangerous idiots. Killfile
the loser.


--
It's easy to think outside the box, when you have a cutting torch.

On Jun 22, 1:02*am, "Michael A. Terrell"
wrote:
VWWall wrote:

Martin Levac wrote:
On 6/21/2011 12:56 PM, Evan wrote:
On Jun 21, 12:57 am, Martin *wrote:
On 6/20/2011 11:14 PM, Evan wrote:

On Jun 20, 5:21 pm, Martin * *wrote:
Hello,

I have a Lasko 2155A window fan with integrated 3 speed control unit
(links at the end of this post). I want to be able to fine tune the
speed so I want a fully variable speed control unit that I would
attach
to the power cord, and control the speed from there instead.

The operator's manual states that the fan must not be used with a
solid
state speed control device. I understand that to mean that I must not
simply attempt to vary the voltage, i.e. from 120VAC to 90VAC for
example. I understand that this may cause the amperage to rise, and
all
sorts of nasty things may occur after that.

Nope, still no help at all. Get the picture?

Some small induction motors, particularly if driving a load like a fan,
can be made to run at a slower speed by simply decreasing the voltage.
As has been mentioned, the usual solid state control removes part of the
AC waveform, which may result in motor overheating.

This can be done with a tapped autotransformer or simply with a series
resistor(s). *A variable resistor of sufficient power rating would give
limited stepless speed control.

I have a condenser fan on my refrigerator that the repairman replaced
with one that sounded like a jet taking off! *I dropped the voltage to
about 90 volts and it's been happily and quietly running for the past
five years.

You'll never know if your particular motor behaves in this way until you
try it. *It may run fine at a lower voltage, but not start. *In this
case you need to insure it's always started with the higher voltage.

* *Virg, you're wasting your time. *This is crosposted from
alt.home.repair which is full of trolls and dangerous idiots. *Killfile
the loser.

Define dangerous.

BTW, I thought Eddie Lebec was one of yours.

R

Martin Levac wrote:
On 6/21/2011 11:56 AM, HeyBub wrote:

Consider a piece of cardboard and some duct tape. Jeeze!



That would have been funny 5 minutes ago. Alarm clock broken? Well,
you know what to fix it with at least.

Everybody knows that and that's what I'm trying to explain. Heck, while I
write this I have to have a gun in each hand and a knife in the other. But
all is okay except for the few who drowned in an adjacent bog.

In article
,
RicodJour wrote:



BTW, I thought Eddie Lebec was one of yours.

R

Yeah, never seen him on a.h.r. before, regardless of whether he's Martin
or Eddie.

On 6/21/2011 5:38 AM, jamesgangnc wrote:

Your most effective solution, barring finding a fan with a non
induction motor, would be to replace the motor. That will probably
involve some minor fabrication unless you are really lucky. Another
option would be a DC motor and a variable output dc power supply.

There's a lecture here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K3jUTnhzA-Q that
talks about speed control of induction motors.

He can buy something like this:
http://compare.ebay.com/like/350324043938?var=lv&ltyp=AllFixedPriceItemTypes&va r=sbar&_lwgsi=y
to do the job.

On Jun 21, 12:50*am, Martin Levac wrote:
On 6/20/2011 10:55 PM, JIMMIE wrote:





On Jun 20, 5:21 pm, Martin *wrote:
Hello,

I have a Lasko 2155A window fan with integrated 3 speed control unit
(links at the end of this post). I want to be able to fine tune the
speed so I want a fully variable speed control unit that I would attach
to the power cord, and control the speed from there instead.

The operator's manual states that the fan must not be used with a solid
state speed control device. I understand that to mean that I must not
simply attempt to vary the voltage, i.e. from 120VAC to 90VAC for
example. I understand that this may cause the amperage to rise, and all
sorts of nasty things may occur after that.

I read a little about the problem and I believe that the integrated
speed control unit controls the speed by varying the AC frequency while
maintaining the same voltage, i.e. from 120VAC 60hz to 120VAC 50hz and
so forth. Though I don't actually know.

I sent a request for information on how to do what I want but I got the
standard "don't do it" reply. As if by some magical mysterious way, I'm
going to change my mind. So no luck from the manufacturer.

I've looked at the Air King 9155 model and I believe it's the same as
the Lasko 2155A. Somebody correct me if I'm wrong. I also believe Lasko
doesn't actually manufacture that model, they only sell it. So that
might explain why I got the standard "don't to it" reply from them. I'll
ask Air King next to see if I have better luck with them.

If any of you have experience with this kind of thing, please advise me
on how to proceed. If there's already a device that I can buy and just
plug in, that would be best. If there's some tinkering to do, it would
depend on the depth and complexity of that tinkering.

Actually what would be best is if I found a similar window fan with an
integrated fully variable speed control unit. Alas, the available choice
of window fans pretty much stops at Air King. Though I understand that
there's a slew of window fans that are not made anymore, like the
Vornado for example, so that might be an option. However, my primary
consideration of any window fan remains a fully variable speed control unit.

Thank you

Martin Levac

http://www.laskoproducts.com/fans/mo...//www.airkingl....

The motor is an induction motor, as far as you are concerned this
means the speed is locked to the frequency of *the AC line. There are
some tricks in rearranging some connections to the stator winding to
get some different speeds but 3 different speeds are about the limit.
I haven't looked but I bet if you google variable speed induction
motors you will get a lot more info.

Jimmie

Since the speed of the motor is locked to the AC frequency, and since
I'm not about to fiddle around the insides of that motor, then it means
I want a device that controls the AC frequency at the power cord. Any
idea how to proceed, Jimmie?- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Variable Frequency power inverter. The basic idea would be like taking
a UPS and making the output frequency variable.. The real problem
doing thiss is that the design of the motor is such that if you get
very far away from 60 Hz with a cheap fan motor it is going to start
to heat up. To get around this problem you will need a motor designed
for it. We use such motors at work and they are expensive.

Jimmie

On Jun 21, 12:50 am, Martin Levac wrote:
On 6/20/2011 10:55 PM, JIMMIE wrote:


On Jun 20, 5:21 pm, Martin wrote:
Hello,

I have a Lasko 2155A window fan with integrated 3 speed control unit
(links at the end of this post). I want to be able to fine tune the
speed so I want a fully variable speed control unit that I would attach
to the power cord, and control the speed from there instead.


Just set your internal fan switch to high and use one of these:
http://www.harborfreight.com/router-...rol-43060.html

On Jun 22, 2:40*pm, "Rich." wrote:
On Jun 21, 12:50 am, Martin Levac wrote:

On 6/20/2011 10:55 PM, JIMMIE wrote:

On Jun 20, 5:21 pm, Martin wrote:
Hello,

I have a Lasko 2155A window fan with integrated 3 speed control unit
(links at the end of this post). I want to be able to fine tune the
speed so I want a fully variable speed control unit that I would attach
to the power cord, and control the speed from there instead.

Just set your internal fan switch to high and use one of these:http://www..harborfreight.com/router...rol-43060.html

It's very unlikely that this speed controller works with induction
motors. Most hand tool motors have brushes.

On 6/22/2011 11:40 AM, Rich. wrote:

On Jun 21, 12:50 am, Martin Levac wrote:
On 6/20/2011 10:55 PM, JIMMIE wrote:


On Jun 20, 5:21 pm, Martin wrote:
Hello,

I have a Lasko 2155A window fan with integrated 3 speed control unit
(links at the end of this post). I want to be able to fine tune the
speed so I want a fully variable speed control unit that I would
attach
to the power cord, and control the speed from there instead.


Just set your internal fan switch to high and use one of these:
http://www.harborfreight.com/router-...rol-43060.html

What part of "Works with any universal AC/DC brush-type motor, 15 amps
and under" don't you understand?

A $10 fan doesn't have a brush motor.

I'd buy enough of these
http://www.allelectronics.com/make-a-store/item/CF-320/48VDC-120MM-COOLING-FAN/1.html
to replace the innards of the Lasko fan. Power it with a variable
transformer
http://www.allelectronics.com/make-a-store/item/SC-3M/3_AMP_VARIABLE_TRANSFORMER/-/1.html
and a bridge rectifier and somehow prevent the variable transformer from
going below 24V or over 48V.

"Rich." wrote in
:


On Jun 21, 12:50 am, Martin Levac wrote:
On 6/20/2011 10:55 PM, JIMMIE wrote:


On Jun 20, 5:21 pm, Martin wrote:
Hello,

I have a Lasko 2155A window fan with integrated 3 speed control
unit (links at the end of this post). I want to be able to fine
tune the speed so I want a fully variable speed control unit that
I would attach to the power cord, and control the speed from there
instead.


Just set your internal fan switch to high and use one of these:
http://www.harborfreight.com/router-...rol-43060.html



or wire an incandescent lamp dimmer to a duplex outlet,then plug in the
fan(on high range).
That's how I speed control my fixed speed model 270 Dremel Mototool.

--
Jim Yanik
jyanik
at
localnet
dot com

On Jun 23, 9:45*am, Jim Yanik wrote:
"Rich." wrote :







On Jun 21, 12:50 am, Martin Levac wrote:
On 6/20/2011 10:55 PM, JIMMIE wrote:

On Jun 20, 5:21 pm, Martin wrote:
Hello,

I have a Lasko 2155A window fan with integrated 3 speed control
unit (links at the end of this post). I want to be able to fine
tune the speed so I want a fully variable speed control unit that
I would attach to the power cord, and control the speed from there
instead.

Just set your internal fan switch to high and use one of these:
http://www.harborfreight.com/router-...rol-43060.html

or wire an incandescent lamp dimmer to a duplex outlet,then plug in the
fan(on high range).
That's how I speed control my fixed speed model 270 Dremel Mototool.

--
Jim Yanik
jyanik
at
localnet
dot com- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Again. Your dremel is a brushed motor, not an induction motor. What
works for a motor with brushes doesn't work on induction motors.

On Jun 21, 1:32*pm, VWWall wrote:
Martin Levac wrote:
On 6/21/2011 12:56 PM, Evan wrote:
On Jun 21, 12:57 am, Martin *wrote:
On 6/20/2011 11:14 PM, Evan wrote:

On Jun 20, 5:21 pm, Martin * *wrote:
Hello,

I have a Lasko 2155A window fan with integrated 3 speed control unit
(links at the end of this post). I want to be able to fine tune the
speed so I want a fully variable speed control unit that I would
attach
to the power cord, and control the speed from there instead.

The operator's manual states that the fan must not be used with a
solid
state speed control device. I understand that to mean that I must not
simply attempt to vary the voltage, i.e. from 120VAC to 90VAC for
example. I understand that this may cause the amperage to rise, and
all
sorts of nasty things may occur after that.

Nope, still no help at all. Get the picture?

Some small induction motors, particularly if driving a load like a fan,
can be made to run at a slower speed by simply decreasing the voltage.
As has been mentioned, the usual solid state control removes part of the
AC waveform, which may result in motor overheating.

This can be done with a tapped autotransformer or simply with a series
resistor(s). *A variable resistor of sufficient power rating would give
limited stepless speed control.

I have a condenser fan on my refrigerator that the repairman replaced
with one that sounded like a jet taking off! *I dropped the voltage to
about 90 volts and it's been happily and quietly running for the past
five years.

You'll never know if your particular motor behaves in this way until you
try it. *It may run fine at a lower voltage, but not start. *In this
case you need to insure it's always started with the higher voltage.

--
Virg Wall

I have slowed things down with a green plug.

Greg