I have a Conquest 90 Max gas furnace with central air.

I also have a bunch of questions:

1 - The internal coils have not been clean since it was installed 5
years ago, so I decided to take a look and see if they needed
cleaning. Problem is, I'm not sure how to access them.

I removed the screws from the panel where the condensate and
refrigerant pipes are, but as you can see from this picture, I can't
remove the panel because of the vent pipe.

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/62/furnacef.jpg/

If I could tilt the top or bottom of the panel outwards, I could
remove it, but the vent pipe prevents any significant tilting.

There is no other panel that I can remove. The other 3 sides that
surround the coils are a single piece which has the duct work on top
of it. The duct work would have to go up in order for the 3-sided
surround to come off.

How do I get to the coils?

2 - Through the limited opening, I can see into the coil area with a
flashlight. I see 2 tee-pee sets of coils and as far as I can tell
they are perfectly clean, at least on the surfaces that I can see with
the panel open as shown. Should I just close it up and forget about it
or are there areas I should check - assuming I can gain better access?

3 - When I removed the panel I saw 2 stickers, both of which raised
questions in my mind:

3.1 - One sticker has a picture of a "condensate drain trap" made from
a piece of flexible tubing attached to the drain output pipe. As you
can see from the picture, I don't have a trap. At the bottom of the
PVC pipe seen behind the gas line is the condensate pump.

The pump sends the condensate up a flexible tube and across the
ceiling to the utility sink.

I don't need a trap with that set up, do I?

3.2 - The other sticker says: "Coil is shipped with a low pressure (5
-10 psi) charge of dry nitrogen. Evacuate system before charging with
refrigerant."

Would the unit work (i.e. cool) if the system was not evacuated/
charged when it was installed?

I'm not saying that it wasn't evacuated/charged because I don't
remember if the installer did it or not, so I'm just curious.

Thanks!

On May 28, 9:17*pm, DerbyDad03 wrote:
I have a Conquest 90 Max gas furnace with central air.

I also have a bunch of questions:

1 - The internal coils have not been clean since it was installed 5
years ago, so I decided to take a look and see if they needed
cleaning. Problem is, I'm not sure how to access them.

I removed the screws from the panel where the condensate and
refrigerant pipes are, but as you can see from this picture, I can't
remove the panel because of the vent pipe.

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/62/furnacef.jpg/

If I could tilt the top or bottom of the panel outwards, I could
remove it, but the vent pipe prevents any significant tilting.

There is no other panel that I can remove. The other 3 sides that
surround the coils are a single piece which has the duct work on top
of it. The duct work would have to go up in order for the 3-sided
surround to come off.

How do I get to the coils?

2 - Through the limited opening, I can see into the coil area with a
flashlight. I see 2 tee-pee sets of coils and as far as I can tell
they are perfectly clean, at least on the surfaces that I can see with
the panel open as shown. Should I just close it up and forget about it
or are there areas I should check - assuming I can gain better access?

3 - When I removed the panel I saw 2 stickers, both of which raised
questions in my mind:

3.1 - One sticker has a picture of a "condensate drain trap" made from
a piece of flexible tubing attached to the drain output pipe. As you
can see from the picture, I don't have a trap. At the bottom of the
PVC pipe seen behind the gas line is the condensate pump.

The pump sends the condensate up a flexible tube and across the
ceiling to the utility sink.

I don't need a trap with that set up, do I?

3.2 - The other sticker says: "Coil is shipped with a low pressure (5
-10 psi) charge of dry nitrogen. Evacuate system before charging with
refrigerant."

Would the unit work (i.e. cool) if the system was not evacuated/
charged when it was installed?

I'm not saying that it wasn't evacuated/charged because I don't
remember if the installer did it or not, so I'm just curious.

Thanks!

That is a typical A-coil set-up on top of your furnace. I have the
same set-up. Yes it is a pain getting to the A-coil. Bottom line is if
you change you filter regularly, and if the unit is cooling fine,
there is no need to get in there. Its not worth the trouble.
I had my unit 8 years already and no problems so far.

You don't really need a trap on the drain line. It drips slowly, its
not like a steady stream of water like a sink.

On May 28, 9:21*pm, Mikepier wrote:
On May 28, 9:17*pm, DerbyDad03 wrote:





I have a Conquest 90 Max gas furnace with central air.

I also have a bunch of questions:

1 - The internal coils have not been clean since it was installed 5
years ago, so I decided to take a look and see if they needed
cleaning. Problem is, I'm not sure how to access them.

I removed the screws from the panel where the condensate and
refrigerant pipes are, but as you can see from this picture, I can't
remove the panel because of the vent pipe.

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/62/furnacef.jpg/

If I could tilt the top or bottom of the panel outwards, I could
remove it, but the vent pipe prevents any significant tilting.

There is no other panel that I can remove. The other 3 sides that
surround the coils are a single piece which has the duct work on top
of it. The duct work would have to go up in order for the 3-sided
surround to come off.

How do I get to the coils?

2 - Through the limited opening, I can see into the coil area with a
flashlight. I see 2 tee-pee sets of coils and as far as I can tell
they are perfectly clean, at least on the surfaces that I can see with
the panel open as shown. Should I just close it up and forget about it
or are there areas I should check - assuming I can gain better access?

3 - When I removed the panel I saw 2 stickers, both of which raised
questions in my mind:

3.1 - One sticker has a picture of a "condensate drain trap" made from
a piece of flexible tubing attached to the drain output pipe. As you
can see from the picture, I don't have a trap. At the bottom of the
PVC pipe seen behind the gas line is the condensate pump.

The pump sends the condensate up a flexible tube and across the
ceiling to the utility sink.

I don't need a trap with that set up, do I?

3.2 - The other sticker says: "Coil is shipped with a low pressure (5
-10 psi) charge of dry nitrogen. Evacuate system before charging with
refrigerant."

Would the unit work (i.e. cool) if the system was not evacuated/
charged when it was installed?

I'm not saying that it wasn't evacuated/charged because I don't
remember if the installer did it or not, so I'm just curious.

Thanks!

That is a typical A-coil set-up on top of your furnace. I have the
same set-up. Yes it is a pain getting to the A-coil. Bottom line is if
you change you filter regularly, and if the unit is cooling fine,
there is no need to get in there. Its not worth the trouble.
I had *my unit 8 years already and no problems so far.

You don't really need a trap on the drain line. It drips slowly, its
not like a steady stream of water like a sink.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

The only time a trap would be required would be if it drained directly
into a sewer line. You could cut the plastic pipe and then use a
coupling to rejoin it. But if you can't see any dirt and if it seems
to be cooling ok, leave well enough alone!

On May 28, 11:05*pm, "hr(bob) "
wrote:
On May 28, 9:21*pm, Mikepier wrote:


On May 28, 9:17*pm, DerbyDad03 wrote:

I have a Conquest 90 Max gas furnace with central air.

I also have a bunch of questions:

1 - The internal coils have not been clean since it was installed 5
years ago, so I decided to take a look and see if they needed
cleaning. Problem is, I'm not sure how to access them.

I removed the screws from the panel where the condensate and
refrigerant pipes are, but as you can see from this picture, I can't
remove the panel because of the vent pipe.

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/62/furnacef.jpg/

If I could tilt the top or bottom of the panel outwards, I could
remove it, but the vent pipe prevents any significant tilting.

There is no other panel that I can remove. The other 3 sides that
surround the coils are a single piece which has the duct work on top
of it. The duct work would have to go up in order for the 3-sided
surround to come off.

How do I get to the coils?

2 - Through the limited opening, I can see into the coil area with a
flashlight. I see 2 tee-pee sets of coils and as far as I can tell
they are perfectly clean, at least on the surfaces that I can see with
the panel open as shown. Should I just close it up and forget about it
or are there areas I should check - assuming I can gain better access?

3 - When I removed the panel I saw 2 stickers, both of which raised
questions in my mind:

3.1 - One sticker has a picture of a "condensate drain trap" made from
a piece of flexible tubing attached to the drain output pipe. As you
can see from the picture, I don't have a trap. At the bottom of the
PVC pipe seen behind the gas line is the condensate pump.

The pump sends the condensate up a flexible tube and across the
ceiling to the utility sink.

I don't need a trap with that set up, do I?

3.2 - The other sticker says: "Coil is shipped with a low pressure (5
-10 psi) charge of dry nitrogen. Evacuate system before charging with
refrigerant."

Would the unit work (i.e. cool) if the system was not evacuated/
charged when it was installed?

I'm not saying that it wasn't evacuated/charged because I don't
remember if the installer did it or not, so I'm just curious.

Thanks!

That is a typical A-coil set-up on top of your furnace. I have the
same set-up. Yes it is a pain getting to the A-coil. Bottom line is if
you change you filter regularly, and if the unit is cooling fine,
there is no need to get in there. Its not worth the trouble.
I had *my unit 8 years already and no problems so far.

You don't really need a trap on the drain line. It drips slowly, its
not like a steady stream of water like a sink.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

The only time a trap would be required would be if it drained directly
into a sewer line. *You could cut the plastic pipe and then use a
coupling to rejoin it. *But if you can't see any dirt and if it seems
to be cooling ok, leave well enough alone!

That's 2 answers that say "if it seems to be cooling ok"

How do I know? I never had central air before this unit so I have
nothing to compare it to.

It doesn't seem to be any different than the first year, but how do I
know if it was right the first year.

Is there some standard measurement such as cooling degrees per hour at
a given temperature or percent of humidity removed per hour?

How do you check the performance of a central air system?

On 5/28/2011 8:17 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
I have a Conquest 90 Max gas furnace with central air.

I also have a bunch of questions:

1 - The internal coils have not been clean since it was installed 5
years ago, so I decided to take a look and see if they needed
cleaning. Problem is, I'm not sure how to access them.

I removed the screws from the panel where the condensate and
refrigerant pipes are, but as you can see from this picture, I can't
remove the panel because of the vent pipe.

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/62/furnacef.jpg/

If I could tilt the top or bottom of the panel outwards, I could
remove it, but the vent pipe prevents any significant tilting.

There is no other panel that I can remove. The other 3 sides that
surround the coils are a single piece which has the duct work on top
of it. The duct work would have to go up in order for the 3-sided
surround to come off.

How do I get to the coils?

2 - Through the limited opening, I can see into the coil area with a
flashlight. I see 2 tee-pee sets of coils and as far as I can tell
they are perfectly clean, at least on the surfaces that I can see with
the panel open as shown. Should I just close it up and forget about it
or are there areas I should check - assuming I can gain better access?

3 - When I removed the panel I saw 2 stickers, both of which raised
questions in my mind:

3.1 - One sticker has a picture of a "condensate drain trap" made from
a piece of flexible tubing attached to the drain output pipe. As you
can see from the picture, I don't have a trap. At the bottom of the
PVC pipe seen behind the gas line is the condensate pump.

The pump sends the condensate up a flexible tube and across the
ceiling to the utility sink.

I don't need a trap with that set up, do I?

3.2 - The other sticker says: "Coil is shipped with a low pressure (5
-10 psi) charge of dry nitrogen. Evacuate system before charging with
refrigerant."

Would the unit work (i.e. cool) if the system was not evacuated/
charged when it was installed?

I'm not saying that it wasn't evacuated/charged because I don't
remember if the installer did it or not, so I'm just curious.

Thanks!


Are you sure you can't get the PVC vent loose and swing it aside?
Me and my bud I do AC work with never install a 3/4 PVC drain without
a union so we can service the drain if it clogs up. You can cut the
3/4 drain line and install a coupling without glue so you can get it
loose. I always use unions anyway. With the 3/4 drain out of the way,
you could easily remove the cover. Big box stores have the unions.

http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/Union-1WKD7

TDD

On May 28, 11:05*pm, "hr(bob) "
wrote:
On May 28, 9:21*pm, Mikepier wrote:



On May 28, 9:17*pm, DerbyDad03 wrote:

I have a Conquest 90 Max gas furnace with central air.

I also have a bunch of questions:

1 - The internal coils have not been clean since it was installed 5
years ago, so I decided to take a look and see if they needed
cleaning. Problem is, I'm not sure how to access them.

I removed the screws from the panel where the condensate and
refrigerant pipes are, but as you can see from this picture, I can't
remove the panel because of the vent pipe.

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/62/furnacef.jpg/

If I could tilt the top or bottom of the panel outwards, I could
remove it, but the vent pipe prevents any significant tilting.

There is no other panel that I can remove. The other 3 sides that
surround the coils are a single piece which has the duct work on top
of it. The duct work would have to go up in order for the 3-sided
surround to come off.

How do I get to the coils?

2 - Through the limited opening, I can see into the coil area with a
flashlight. I see 2 tee-pee sets of coils and as far as I can tell
they are perfectly clean, at least on the surfaces that I can see with
the panel open as shown. Should I just close it up and forget about it
or are there areas I should check - assuming I can gain better access?

3 - When I removed the panel I saw 2 stickers, both of which raised
questions in my mind:

3.1 - One sticker has a picture of a "condensate drain trap" made from
a piece of flexible tubing attached to the drain output pipe. As you
can see from the picture, I don't have a trap. At the bottom of the
PVC pipe seen behind the gas line is the condensate pump.

The pump sends the condensate up a flexible tube and across the
ceiling to the utility sink.

I don't need a trap with that set up, do I?

3.2 - The other sticker says: "Coil is shipped with a low pressure (5
-10 psi) charge of dry nitrogen. Evacuate system before charging with
refrigerant."

Would the unit work (i.e. cool) if the system was not evacuated/
charged when it was installed?

I'm not saying that it wasn't evacuated/charged because I don't
remember if the installer did it or not, so I'm just curious.

Thanks!

That is a typical A-coil set-up on top of your furnace. I have the
same set-up. Yes it is a pain getting to the A-coil. Bottom line is if
you change you filter regularly, and if the unit is cooling fine,
there is no need to get in there. Its not worth the trouble.
I had *my unit 8 years already and no problems so far.

You don't really need a trap on the drain line. It drips slowly, its
not like a steady stream of water like a sink.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

The only time a trap would be required would be if it drained directly
into a sewer line. *You could cut the plastic pipe and then use a
coupling to rejoin it. *But if you can't see any dirt and if it seems
to be cooling ok, leave well enough alone!

@Bob:

You would want a trap in the small PVC drain line for the
condensate line if it drained directly outside -- to keep bugs
out of your HVAC duct...

I have never seen such a vent directly connected into a drain
or sewer line, that would provide a direct pathway for black water
to back up into your HVAC duct if your main drain line ever clogged...

The air gap provided by letting the condensate drain line drip
into a floor drain or utility sink ensures that sewage will never
back up into the duct work...

~~ Evan

On May 29, 1:05*am, The Daring Dufas
wrote:
On 5/28/2011 8:17 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:



I have a Conquest 90 Max gas furnace with central air.

I also have a bunch of questions:

1 - The internal coils have not been clean since it was installed 5
years ago, so I decided to take a look and see if they needed
cleaning. Problem is, I'm not sure how to access them.

I removed the screws from the panel where the condensate and
refrigerant pipes are, but as you can see from this picture, I can't
remove the panel because of the vent pipe.

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/62/furnacef.jpg/

If I could tilt the top or bottom of the panel outwards, I could
remove it, but the vent pipe prevents any significant tilting.

There is no other panel that I can remove. The other 3 sides that
surround the coils are a single piece which has the duct work on top
of it. The duct work would have to go up in order for the 3-sided
surround to come off.

How do I get to the coils?

2 - Through the limited opening, I can see into the coil area with a
flashlight. I see 2 tee-pee sets of coils and as far as I can tell
they are perfectly clean, at least on the surfaces that I can see with
the panel open as shown. Should I just close it up and forget about it
or are there areas I should check - assuming I can gain better access?

3 - When I removed the panel I saw 2 stickers, both of which raised
questions in my mind:

3.1 - One sticker has a picture of a "condensate drain trap" made from
a piece of flexible tubing attached to the drain output pipe. As you
can see from the picture, I don't have a trap. At the bottom of the
PVC pipe seen behind the gas line is the condensate pump.

The pump sends the condensate up a flexible tube and across the
ceiling to the utility sink.

I don't need a trap with that set up, do I?

3.2 - The other sticker says: "Coil is shipped with a low pressure (5
-10 psi) charge of dry nitrogen. Evacuate system before charging with
refrigerant."

Would the unit work (i.e. cool) if the system was not evacuated/
charged when it was installed?

I'm not saying that it wasn't evacuated/charged because I don't
remember if the installer did it or not, so I'm just curious.

Thanks!

Are you sure you can't get the PVC vent loose and swing it aside?
Me and my bud I do AC work with never install a 3/4 PVC drain without
a union so we can service the drain if it clogs up. You can cut the
3/4 drain line and install a coupling without glue so you can get it
loose. I always use unions anyway. With the 3/4 drain out of the way,
you could easily remove the cover. Big box stores have the unions.

http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/Union-1WKD7

TDD

@TDD:

That vent pipe is for the flue gasses from the burner in that high
efficiency direct vent furnace... I wouldn't cut into that for any
reason EVER, as if you don't glue it up perfectly when you put
it back you will have issues with carbon monoxide leaking into
your home from the exhaust products during heating season...

The better solution here is to have the OP cut the sheet metal
panel which can not clear the obstacles and obtain a piece of
flat stock which he could install so he could screw it back into
one piece when he is closing the coil compartment on the
main trunk duct back up again... The joint the OP cuts in the
cover panel and the screw heads can be sealed up with foil
duct sealing tape...

~~ Evan

On May 28, 9:17*pm, DerbyDad03 wrote:
I have a Conquest 90 Max gas furnace with central air.

I also have a bunch of questions:

1 - The internal coils have not been clean since it was installed 5
years ago, so I decided to take a look and see if they needed
cleaning. Problem is, I'm not sure how to access them.

I removed the screws from the panel where the condensate and
refrigerant pipes are, but as you can see from this picture, I can't
remove the panel because of the vent pipe.

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/62/furnacef.jpg/

If I could tilt the top or bottom of the panel outwards, I could
remove it, but the vent pipe prevents any significant tilting.

There is no other panel that I can remove. The other 3 sides that
surround the coils are a single piece which has the duct work on top
of it. The duct work would have to go up in order for the 3-sided
surround to come off.

How do I get to the coils?

2 - Through the limited opening, I can see into the coil area with a
flashlight. I see 2 tee-pee sets of coils and as far as I can tell
they are perfectly clean, at least on the surfaces that I can see with
the panel open as shown. Should I just close it up and forget about it
or are there areas I should check - assuming I can gain better access?

3 - When I removed the panel I saw 2 stickers, both of which raised
questions in my mind:

3.1 - One sticker has a picture of a "condensate drain trap" made from
a piece of flexible tubing attached to the drain output pipe. As you
can see from the picture, I don't have a trap. At the bottom of the
PVC pipe seen behind the gas line is the condensate pump.

The pump sends the condensate up a flexible tube and across the
ceiling to the utility sink.

I don't need a trap with that set up, do I?

3.2 - The other sticker says: "Coil is shipped with a low pressure (5
-10 psi) charge of dry nitrogen. Evacuate system before charging with
refrigerant."

Would the unit work (i.e. cool) if the system was not evacuated/
charged when it was installed?

I'm not saying that it wasn't evacuated/charged because I don't
remember if the installer did it or not, so I'm just curious.

Thanks!

1. 5 years ? They need to be cleaned, even if you changed your
filter religiously stuff will still build up on the coils... Even if
you
think they look clean...

2. You can't see in there very well and probably wouldn't see the
tiny stuff which builds up in the coils anyway... Once people can
be able to "see" dust on the coils the have been wasting energy
in their cooling system for quite a long time... Dust insulates the
coils making the system work harder to provide the same amount
of cooling capacity and provides a nice convenient medium where
any excess moisture in your home from humidity can condense
and freeze, icing up the coils... (which is *not* a good thing)

3. Irrelevant questions, your condensate drain clearly does not
directly connect to a sewer line or it would have a trap in its
drain line -- nor does it drain directly outside...

As far as the coil being shipped charged with Nitrogen that is
how the coils are protected from damage during shipping and
installation... All of that gas would have been recovered and
evacuated from the system before it was charged prior to the
pressure testing which is done before any refrigerant is added,
without refrigerant your AC wouldn't cool your house at all...

To answer your question about how to get at the coil, here is
your answer:

You need to obtain a proper pair of steel metal shears to cut
the cover panel down in a straight line from where the refrigerant
lines exit the duct box to where the condensate line is located...
You would then need a piece of heavy gauge flat stock and some
gasket material... One side of the flat stock gets attached to
the larger piece of the cover panel permanently... With the
additional
joint you create you can remove the cover from both sides of flue vent
pipe without disturbing it's integrity which would cause a hazard, and
if you properly gasket and seal the new joint line you create in the
cover plate with real foil duct tape you will not impact or change the
level of static pressure in your duct work...

Want to keep your AC working at peak performance for years ?
Clean your inside coils with proper coil cleaner every year before
cooling season starts -- don't forget to do the same with the coils
in the outside heat pump unit, all sorts of things can obstruct the
cooling fins in the coil outside from dirt to things left by bugs,
plants
or animals... If the cooling fins in the outside unit are dirty or
have
lots of stuff clogging them, then the fan can't induce a proper draft
to transfer the heat into the outside air and the system won't run
very efficiently wasting energy...

That looks like a very nice and neat install on your furnace and
AC coils, the only thing your installer overlooked was how on
earth the next guy was ever going to be able to open the cover
up to service or clean the coils without having to cut out and
remove the vent pipe and repair the same every time someone
needed to open that cover plate...

~~ Evan

On 5/29/2011 1:25 AM, Evan wrote:
On May 29, 1:05 am, The Daring
wrote:
On 5/28/2011 8:17 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:



I have a Conquest 90 Max gas furnace with central air.

I also have a bunch of questions:

1 - The internal coils have not been clean since it was installed 5
years ago, so I decided to take a look and see if they needed
cleaning. Problem is, I'm not sure how to access them.

I removed the screws from the panel where the condensate and
refrigerant pipes are, but as you can see from this picture, I can't
remove the panel because of the vent pipe.

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/62/furnacef.jpg/

If I could tilt the top or bottom of the panel outwards, I could
remove it, but the vent pipe prevents any significant tilting.

There is no other panel that I can remove. The other 3 sides that
surround the coils are a single piece which has the duct work on top
of it. The duct work would have to go up in order for the 3-sided
surround to come off.

How do I get to the coils?

2 - Through the limited opening, I can see into the coil area with a
flashlight. I see 2 tee-pee sets of coils and as far as I can tell
they are perfectly clean, at least on the surfaces that I can see with
the panel open as shown. Should I just close it up and forget about it
or are there areas I should check - assuming I can gain better access?

3 - When I removed the panel I saw 2 stickers, both of which raised
questions in my mind:

3.1 - One sticker has a picture of a "condensate drain trap" made from
a piece of flexible tubing attached to the drain output pipe. As you
can see from the picture, I don't have a trap. At the bottom of the
PVC pipe seen behind the gas line is the condensate pump.

The pump sends the condensate up a flexible tube and across the
ceiling to the utility sink.

I don't need a trap with that set up, do I?

3.2 - The other sticker says: "Coil is shipped with a low pressure (5
-10 psi) charge of dry nitrogen. Evacuate system before charging with
refrigerant."

Would the unit work (i.e. cool) if the system was not evacuated/
charged when it was installed?

I'm not saying that it wasn't evacuated/charged because I don't
remember if the installer did it or not, so I'm just curious.

Thanks!

Are you sure you can't get the PVC vent loose and swing it aside?
Me and my bud I do AC work with never install a 3/4 PVC drain without
a union so we can service the drain if it clogs up. You can cut the
3/4 drain line and install a coupling without glue so you can get it
loose. I always use unions anyway. With the 3/4 drain out of the way,
you could easily remove the cover. Big box stores have the unions.

http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/Union-1WKD7

TDD

@TDD:

That vent pipe is for the flue gasses from the burner in that high
efficiency direct vent furnace... I wouldn't cut into that for any
reason EVER, as if you don't glue it up perfectly when you put
it back you will have issues with carbon monoxide leaking into
your home from the exhaust products during heating season...

The better solution here is to have the OP cut the sheet metal
panel which can not clear the obstacles and obtain a piece of
flat stock which he could install so he could screw it back into
one piece when he is closing the coil compartment on the
main trunk duct back up again... The joint the OP cuts in the
cover panel and the screw heads can be sealed up with foil
duct sealing tape...

~~ Evan

Perhaps I confused you, I only cut the 3/4" PVC "drain" line not the
vent stack which is usually in the 3 to 4 inch diameter range. :-)

TDD

DerbyDad03 wrote:

That's 2 answers that say "if it seems to be cooling ok"

How do I know? I never had central air before this unit so I have
nothing to compare it to.

It doesn't seem to be any different than the first year, but how do I
know if it was right the first year.

Is there some standard measurement such as cooling degrees per hour at
a given temperature or percent of humidity removed per hour?

How do you check the performance of a central air system?

The cheap way:
Stick a thermometer in an air outlet. The standard is twenty degrees of
cooling. That is, if the ambient room temperature is 80 degrees, the AC
should be pumping out 60-degree air.

On May 29, 1:05*am, The Daring Dufas
wrote:
On 5/28/2011 8:17 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:









I have a Conquest 90 Max gas furnace with central air.

I also have a bunch of questions:

1 - The internal coils have not been clean since it was installed 5
years ago, so I decided to take a look and see if they needed
cleaning. Problem is, I'm not sure how to access them.

I removed the screws from the panel where the condensate and
refrigerant pipes are, but as you can see from this picture, I can't
remove the panel because of the vent pipe.

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/62/furnacef.jpg/

If I could tilt the top or bottom of the panel outwards, I could
remove it, but the vent pipe prevents any significant tilting.

There is no other panel that I can remove. The other 3 sides that
surround the coils are a single piece which has the duct work on top
of it. The duct work would have to go up in order for the 3-sided
surround to come off.

How do I get to the coils?

2 - Through the limited opening, I can see into the coil area with a
flashlight. I see 2 tee-pee sets of coils and as far as I can tell
they are perfectly clean, at least on the surfaces that I can see with
the panel open as shown. Should I just close it up and forget about it
or are there areas I should check - assuming I can gain better access?

3 - When I removed the panel I saw 2 stickers, both of which raised
questions in my mind:

3.1 - One sticker has a picture of a "condensate drain trap" made from
a piece of flexible tubing attached to the drain output pipe. As you
can see from the picture, I don't have a trap. At the bottom of the
PVC pipe seen behind the gas line is the condensate pump.

The pump sends the condensate up a flexible tube and across the
ceiling to the utility sink.

I don't need a trap with that set up, do I?

3.2 - The other sticker says: "Coil is shipped with a low pressure (5
-10 psi) charge of dry nitrogen. Evacuate system before charging with
refrigerant."

Would the unit work (i.e. cool) if the system was not evacuated/
charged when it was installed?

I'm not saying that it wasn't evacuated/charged because I don't
remember if the installer did it or not, so I'm just curious.

Thanks!

Are you sure you can't get the PVC vent loose and swing it aside?
Me and my bud I do AC work with never install a 3/4 PVC drain without
a union so we can service the drain if it clogs up. You can cut the
3/4 drain line and install a coupling without glue so you can get it
loose. I always use unions anyway. With the 3/4 drain out of the way,
you could easily remove the cover. Big box stores have the unions.

http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/Union-1WKD7

TDD

How would cutting the PVC drain pipe help?

If I cut (or even removed) the drain, I still couldn't pull the bottom
of the panel away from the furnace.

I'd have to rotate the panel along the same plane it's on now, but
there's 4 1/2" of panel between the cut out for the drain and the edge
of the panel. In other words, way too much material to be able to
rotate the panel enough to remove it.

On May 29, 1:05*am, The Daring Dufas
wrote:
On 5/28/2011 8:17 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:









I have a Conquest 90 Max gas furnace with central air.

I also have a bunch of questions:

1 - The internal coils have not been clean since it was installed 5
years ago, so I decided to take a look and see if they needed
cleaning. Problem is, I'm not sure how to access them.

I removed the screws from the panel where the condensate and
refrigerant pipes are, but as you can see from this picture, I can't
remove the panel because of the vent pipe.

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/62/furnacef.jpg/

If I could tilt the top or bottom of the panel outwards, I could
remove it, but the vent pipe prevents any significant tilting.

There is no other panel that I can remove. The other 3 sides that
surround the coils are a single piece which has the duct work on top
of it. The duct work would have to go up in order for the 3-sided
surround to come off.

How do I get to the coils?

2 - Through the limited opening, I can see into the coil area with a
flashlight. I see 2 tee-pee sets of coils and as far as I can tell
they are perfectly clean, at least on the surfaces that I can see with
the panel open as shown. Should I just close it up and forget about it
or are there areas I should check - assuming I can gain better access?

3 - When I removed the panel I saw 2 stickers, both of which raised
questions in my mind:

3.1 - One sticker has a picture of a "condensate drain trap" made from
a piece of flexible tubing attached to the drain output pipe. As you
can see from the picture, I don't have a trap. At the bottom of the
PVC pipe seen behind the gas line is the condensate pump.

The pump sends the condensate up a flexible tube and across the
ceiling to the utility sink.

I don't need a trap with that set up, do I?

3.2 - The other sticker says: "Coil is shipped with a low pressure (5
-10 psi) charge of dry nitrogen. Evacuate system before charging with
refrigerant."

Would the unit work (i.e. cool) if the system was not evacuated/
charged when it was installed?

I'm not saying that it wasn't evacuated/charged because I don't
remember if the installer did it or not, so I'm just curious.

Thanks!

Are you sure you can't get the PVC vent loose and swing it aside?
Me and my bud I do AC work with never install a 3/4 PVC drain without
a union so we can service the drain if it clogs up. You can cut the
3/4 drain line and install a coupling without glue so you can get it
loose. I always use unions anyway. With the 3/4 drain out of the way,
you could easily remove the cover. Big box stores have the unions.

http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/Union-1WKD7

TDD

"Are you sure you can't get the PVC vent loose and swing it
aside?"

The vent stack is sealed with putty around the inlet and then again
where it exits the house. Are you suggesting that I remove the putty
then pull the vent stack up and out?

I removed the lower panel and it looks like I'd have to lift the vent
about an inch to clear the black inlet tube on the furnace.

I'm not sure if that's doable, but if that's what you're suggesting, I
investigate further.

I understand all that work is needed to get at the coils to clean
them, but to me its not worth the trouble, plus you risk damaging your
coil trying to make some kind of access to get to it. If you ae going
to go through that trouble, wait until the A-coil craps out and
replace with a new one.

I agree with the other poster. If there is at least 17-20 degree or
more difference in the return plenum and supply register, the system
is fine. And if the return line of the refrigerent line is cold and
sweaty, thats a good sign too.
If your house gets to the proper temp with the compressor regularly
cycling on and off throughout the day ( about 2- 3 times/hour), I
would leave well enough alone.

If you use good air filters, the evaporator should not need
cleaning. To get at it, you'd have to remove the flue pipe,
and also the condensate drain. To further remove the
evaporator, you'd need to pump out the refrigerant and cut
the freon lines. Beyond the skills of most DIY.

Yes, it should have a P-trap between the evaporator and the
cond pump.

There isn't a lot of nitrogen in the evaporator. The
installer SHOULD have vacuumed the air / nitrogen out of the
coil and the lines. If he didn't, the system still works but
not as efficiently.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"DerbyDad03" wrote in message
...
I have a Conquest 90 Max gas furnace with central air.

I also have a bunch of questions:

1 - The internal coils have not been clean since it was
installed 5
years ago, so I decided to take a look and see if they
needed
cleaning. Problem is, I'm not sure how to access them.

I removed the screws from the panel where the condensate and
refrigerant pipes are, but as you can see from this picture,
I can't
remove the panel because of the vent pipe.

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/62/furnacef.jpg/

If I could tilt the top or bottom of the panel outwards, I
could
remove it, but the vent pipe prevents any significant
tilting.

There is no other panel that I can remove. The other 3 sides
that
surround the coils are a single piece which has the duct
work on top
of it. The duct work would have to go up in order for the
3-sided
surround to come off.

How do I get to the coils?

2 - Through the limited opening, I can see into the coil
area with a
flashlight. I see 2 tee-pee sets of coils and as far as I
can tell
they are perfectly clean, at least on the surfaces that I
can see with
the panel open as shown. Should I just close it up and
forget about it
or are there areas I should check - assuming I can gain
better access?

3 - When I removed the panel I saw 2 stickers, both of which
raised
questions in my mind:

3.1 - One sticker has a picture of a "condensate drain trap"
made from
a piece of flexible tubing attached to the drain output
pipe. As you
can see from the picture, I don't have a trap. At the bottom
of the
PVC pipe seen behind the gas line is the condensate pump.

The pump sends the condensate up a flexible tube and across
the
ceiling to the utility sink.

I don't need a trap with that set up, do I?

3.2 - The other sticker says: "Coil is shipped with a low
pressure (5
-10 psi) charge of dry nitrogen. Evacuate system before
charging with
refrigerant."

Would the unit work (i.e. cool) if the system was not
evacuated/
charged when it was installed?

I'm not saying that it wasn't evacuated/charged because I
don't
remember if the installer did it or not, so I'm just
curious.

Thanks!

Without a trap, the negative air pressure in the evap causes
inrush of air through the drain pipe. Which can screw up the
water drainage. Yes, trap is a good idea. Also, clean out
fitting is a good idea so you can rinse out the drain line
as needed.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"Mikepier" wrote in message
...

You don't really need a trap on the drain line. It drips
slowly, its
not like a steady stream of water like a sink.

On May 29, 2:58*am, Evan wrote:
On May 28, 9:17*pm, DerbyDad03 wrote:









I have a Conquest 90 Max gas furnace with central air.

I also have a bunch of questions:

1 - The internal coils have not been clean since it was installed 5
years ago, so I decided to take a look and see if they needed
cleaning. Problem is, I'm not sure how to access them.

I removed the screws from the panel where the condensate and
refrigerant pipes are, but as you can see from this picture, I can't
remove the panel because of the vent pipe.

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/62/furnacef.jpg/

If I could tilt the top or bottom of the panel outwards, I could
remove it, but the vent pipe prevents any significant tilting.

There is no other panel that I can remove. The other 3 sides that
surround the coils are a single piece which has the duct work on top
of it. The duct work would have to go up in order for the 3-sided
surround to come off.

How do I get to the coils?

2 - Through the limited opening, I can see into the coil area with a
flashlight. I see 2 tee-pee sets of coils and as far as I can tell
they are perfectly clean, at least on the surfaces that I can see with
the panel open as shown. Should I just close it up and forget about it
or are there areas I should check - assuming I can gain better access?

3 - When I removed the panel I saw 2 stickers, both of which raised
questions in my mind:

3.1 - One sticker has a picture of a "condensate drain trap" made from
a piece of flexible tubing attached to the drain output pipe. As you
can see from the picture, I don't have a trap. At the bottom of the
PVC pipe seen behind the gas line is the condensate pump.

The pump sends the condensate up a flexible tube and across the
ceiling to the utility sink.

I don't need a trap with that set up, do I?

3.2 - The other sticker says: "Coil is shipped with a low pressure (5
-10 psi) charge of dry nitrogen. Evacuate system before charging with
refrigerant."

Would the unit work (i.e. cool) if the system was not evacuated/
charged when it was installed?

I'm not saying that it wasn't evacuated/charged because I don't
remember if the installer did it or not, so I'm just curious.

Thanks!

1. *5 years ? They need to be cleaned, even if you changed your
filter religiously stuff will still build up on the coils... *Even if
you
think they look clean...

2. *You can't see in there very well and probably wouldn't see the
tiny stuff which builds up in the coils anyway... *Once people can
be able to "see" dust on the coils the have been wasting energy
in their cooling system for quite a long time... *Dust insulates the
coils making the system work harder to provide the same amount
of cooling capacity and provides a nice convenient medium where
any excess moisture in your home from humidity can condense
and freeze, icing up the coils... (which is *not* a good thing)

3. *Irrelevant questions, your condensate drain clearly does not
directly connect to a sewer line or it would have a trap in its
drain line -- nor does it drain directly outside...

As far as the coil being shipped charged with Nitrogen that is
how the coils are protected from damage during shipping and
installation... *All of that gas would have been recovered and
evacuated from the system before it was charged prior to the
pressure testing which is done before any refrigerant is added,
without refrigerant your AC wouldn't cool your house at all...

To answer your question about how to get at the coil, here is
your answer:

You need to obtain a proper pair of steel metal shears to cut
the cover panel down in a straight line from where the refrigerant
lines exit the duct box to where the condensate line is located...
You would then need a piece of heavy gauge flat stock and some
gasket material... *One side of the flat stock gets attached to
the larger piece of the cover panel permanently... *With the
additional
joint you create you can remove the cover from both sides of flue vent
pipe without disturbing it's integrity which would cause a hazard, and
if you properly gasket and seal the new joint line you create in the
cover plate with real foil duct tape you will not impact or change the
level of static pressure in your duct work...

Want to keep your AC working at peak performance for years ?
Clean your inside coils with proper coil cleaner every year before
cooling season starts -- don't forget to do the same with the coils
in the outside heat pump unit, all sorts of things can obstruct the
cooling fins in the coil outside from dirt to things left by bugs,
plants
or animals... *If the cooling fins in the outside unit are dirty or
have
lots of stuff clogging them, then the fan can't induce a proper draft
to transfer the heat into the outside air and the system won't run
very efficiently wasting energy...

That looks like a very nice and neat install on your furnace and
AC coils, the only thing your installer overlooked was how on
earth the next guy was ever going to be able to open the cover
up to service or clean the coils without having to cut out and
remove the vent pipe and repair the same every time someone
needed to open that cover plate...

~~ Evan

Thanks for the info.

Seeing that the exhaust port on the furnace and the cutouts on the
panel came that way from the manufacturer, how could the AC unit been
installed differently such that "the next guy" (me!) was going to be
able to remove the panel?

The only way I could it happening would be to have reversed the AC
unit (if that is even possible) so that the panel was opposite the
vent. That of course would have meant a vent pipe coming out of one
side and the drain and refrigerant pipes pipes coming out of the
other. That would have ended up being a very ugly installation.

That, and many installers just press fit the fittings, it's
low pressure after all.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"The Daring Dufas"
wrote in message ...

Are you sure you can't get the PVC vent loose and swing it
aside?
Me and my bud I do AC work with never install a 3/4 PVC
drain without
a union so we can service the drain if it clogs up. You can
cut the
3/4 drain line and install a coupling without glue so you
can get it
loose. I always use unions anyway. With the 3/4 drain out of
the way,
you could easily remove the cover. Big box stores have the
unions.

http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/Union-1WKD7

TDD

If the furnace isn't too close to the wall, it is possible
to install so that the coil comes out the back.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"DerbyDad03" wrote in message
...

Seeing that the exhaust port on the furnace and the cutouts
on the
panel came that way from the manufacturer, how could the AC
unit been
installed differently such that "the next guy" (me!) was
going to be
able to remove the panel?

The only way I could it happening would be to have reversed
the AC
unit (if that is even possible) so that the panel was
opposite the
vent. That of course would have meant a vent pipe coming out
of one
side and the drain and refrigerant pipes pipes coming out of
the
other. That would have ended up being a very ugly
installation.

On May 29, 2:25*am, Evan wrote:
On May 29, 1:05*am, The Daring Dufas
wrote:





On 5/28/2011 8:17 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:

I have a Conquest 90 Max gas furnace with central air.

I also have a bunch of questions:

1 - The internal coils have not been clean since it was installed 5
years ago, so I decided to take a look and see if they needed
cleaning. Problem is, I'm not sure how to access them.

I removed the screws from the panel where the condensate and
refrigerant pipes are, but as you can see from this picture, I can't
remove the panel because of the vent pipe.

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/62/furnacef.jpg/

If I could tilt the top or bottom of the panel outwards, I could
remove it, but the vent pipe prevents any significant tilting.

There is no other panel that I can remove. The other 3 sides that
surround the coils are a single piece which has the duct work on top
of it. The duct work would have to go up in order for the 3-sided
surround to come off.

How do I get to the coils?

2 - Through the limited opening, I can see into the coil area with a
flashlight. I see 2 tee-pee sets of coils and as far as I can tell
they are perfectly clean, at least on the surfaces that I can see with
the panel open as shown. Should I just close it up and forget about it
or are there areas I should check - assuming I can gain better access?

3 - When I removed the panel I saw 2 stickers, both of which raised
questions in my mind:

3.1 - One sticker has a picture of a "condensate drain trap" made from
a piece of flexible tubing attached to the drain output pipe. As you
can see from the picture, I don't have a trap. At the bottom of the
PVC pipe seen behind the gas line is the condensate pump.

The pump sends the condensate up a flexible tube and across the
ceiling to the utility sink.

I don't need a trap with that set up, do I?

3.2 - The other sticker says: "Coil is shipped with a low pressure (5
-10 psi) charge of dry nitrogen. Evacuate system before charging with
refrigerant."

Would the unit work (i.e. cool) if the system was not evacuated/
charged when it was installed?

I'm not saying that it wasn't evacuated/charged because I don't
remember if the installer did it or not, so I'm just curious.

Thanks!

Are you sure you can't get the PVC vent loose and swing it aside?
Me and my bud I do AC work with never install a 3/4 PVC drain without
a union so we can service the drain if it clogs up. You can cut the
3/4 drain line and install a coupling without glue so you can get it
loose. I always use unions anyway. With the 3/4 drain out of the way,
you could easily remove the cover. Big box stores have the unions.

http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/Union-1WKD7

TDD

@TDD:

That vent pipe is for the flue gasses from the burner in that high
efficiency direct vent furnace... *I wouldn't cut into that for any
reason EVER, as if you don't glue it up perfectly when you put
it back you will have issues with carbon monoxide leaking into
your home from the exhaust products during heating season...

While I would not cut the vent pipe unless it was really
necessary, the notion that you can't do it "EVER" because
it's dangerous is pure nonsense. It's just glued together
using regular PVC cement and if you can glue a piece of PVC,
it's no big deal. IF you think that is high risk, explain how all
the furnaces, hot water heaters, etc, prior to high efficiency
used simple galvanized sheet metal pipe that just got shoved
together and secured with sheet metal screws. The seal
there was far worse than what you get today with PVC pipe.



The better solution here is to have the OP cut the sheet metal
panel which can not clear the obstacles and obtain a piece of
flat stock which he could install so he could screw it back into
one piece when he is closing the coil compartment on the
main trunk duct back up again... *The joint the OP cuts in the
cover panel and the screw heads can be sealed up with foil
duct sealing tape...

~~ Evan- Hide quoted text -


I'd like to know how he's going to cut that piece of sheet metal
when the access is so limited. For sure I'd cut the exhaust
pipe before I did that. I'd also check to see what the exhaust
is or isn't connected to inside the furnace. There is a small
chance it could be disconnected from inside.

But, if the coils appear clean, I'd just put it back together and
save a lot of trouble. The real problem here is that the eqpt
manufacturers typically don't provide a means to clean the
coils. Nor do installers take that into account when doing
the install. On the other hand, if you have a decent filter,
I've seen systems that went 25 years and the coils were
still fine.

On May 29, 2:58*am, Evan wrote:

1. *5 years ? They need to be cleaned, even if you changed your
filter religiously stuff will still build up on the coils... *Even if
you
think they look clean...

Please. I'd bet that 95% of the coils in central AC systems
have never been cleaned, ever.





2. *You can't see in there very well and probably wouldn't see the
tiny stuff which builds up in the coils anyway... *Once people can
be able to "see" dust on the coils the have been wasting energy
in their cooling system for quite a long time... *Dust insulates the
coils making the system work harder to provide the same amount
of cooling capacity and provides a nice convenient medium where
any excess moisture in your home from humidity can condense
and freeze, icing up the coils... (which is *not* a good thing)

3. *Irrelevant questions, your condensate drain clearly does not
directly connect to a sewer line or it would have a trap in its
drain line -- nor does it drain directly outside...

Some manufacturers call for a trap to be installed without regard
to where the drain terminates. Not sure of the reason for this.
One could be to reduce air loss through it or keep bugs out.



As far as the coil being shipped charged with Nitrogen that is
how the coils are protected from damage during shipping and
installation... *All of that gas would have been recovered

You don't recover nitrogen.

and
evacuated from the system before it was charged prior to the
pressure testing which is done before any refrigerant is added,
without refrigerant your AC wouldn't cool your house at all...

To answer your question about how to get at the coil, here is
your answer:

You need to obtain a proper pair of steel metal shears to cut
the cover panel down in a straight line from where the refrigerant
lines exit the duct box to where the condensate line is located...
You would then need a piece of heavy gauge flat stock and some
gasket material... *One side of the flat stock gets attached to
the larger piece of the cover panel permanently... *With the
additional
joint you create you can remove the cover from both sides of flue vent
pipe without disturbing it's integrity which would cause a hazard, and
if you properly gasket and seal the new joint line you create in the
cover plate with real foil duct tape you will not impact or change the
level of static pressure in your duct work...

It would be interesting to hear from Derby if he thinks that's
feasible.



Want to keep your AC working at peak performance for years ?
Clean your inside coils with proper coil cleaner every year before
cooling season starts --

I'd like to see a manufacturer that recommends doing this. And
if it's so important, why don't the manufacturer's have a design
where you don't have the huge problems Derby is having?



don't forget to do the same with the coils
in the outside heat pump unit, all sorts of things can obstruct the
cooling fins in the coil outside from dirt to things left by bugs,
plants
or animals... *If the cooling fins in the outside unit are dirty or
have
lots of stuff clogging them, then the fan can't induce a proper draft
to transfer the heat into the outside air and the system won't run
very efficiently wasting energy...

That looks like a very nice and neat install on your furnace and
AC coils, the only thing your installer overlooked was how on
earth the next guy was ever going to be able to open the cover
up to service or clean the coils without having to cut out and
remove the vent pipe and repair the same every time someone
needed to open that cover plate...

~~ Evan- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I'd say it wasn't the installer that overlooked anything. It was
the manufacturer. That install looks exactly like the typical
install instructions from the manufactuer. Every one of
them I've seen shows the exhaust glued to the stub, and
glue joints the rest of the way to the outside. The
manufacturer designed the furnace and the cased coil.
So, if they wanted access, they could have planned for
it. I agree it would be a good idea to have access, but
you have to deal with the hand you're given. And what
I see here is the typical situation.

On 5/29/2011 7:07 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On May 29, 1:05 am, The Daring
wrote:
On 5/28/2011 8:17 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:









I have a Conquest 90 Max gas furnace with central air.

I also have a bunch of questions:

1 - The internal coils have not been clean since it was installed 5
years ago, so I decided to take a look and see if they needed
cleaning. Problem is, I'm not sure how to access them.

I removed the screws from the panel where the condensate and
refrigerant pipes are, but as you can see from this picture, I can't
remove the panel because of the vent pipe.

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/62/furnacef.jpg/

If I could tilt the top or bottom of the panel outwards, I could
remove it, but the vent pipe prevents any significant tilting.

There is no other panel that I can remove. The other 3 sides that
surround the coils are a single piece which has the duct work on top
of it. The duct work would have to go up in order for the 3-sided
surround to come off.

How do I get to the coils?

2 - Through the limited opening, I can see into the coil area with a
flashlight. I see 2 tee-pee sets of coils and as far as I can tell
they are perfectly clean, at least on the surfaces that I can see with
the panel open as shown. Should I just close it up and forget about it
or are there areas I should check - assuming I can gain better access?

3 - When I removed the panel I saw 2 stickers, both of which raised
questions in my mind:

3.1 - One sticker has a picture of a "condensate drain trap" made from
a piece of flexible tubing attached to the drain output pipe. As you
can see from the picture, I don't have a trap. At the bottom of the
PVC pipe seen behind the gas line is the condensate pump.

The pump sends the condensate up a flexible tube and across the
ceiling to the utility sink.

I don't need a trap with that set up, do I?

3.2 - The other sticker says: "Coil is shipped with a low pressure (5
-10 psi) charge of dry nitrogen. Evacuate system before charging with
refrigerant."

Would the unit work (i.e. cool) if the system was not evacuated/
charged when it was installed?

I'm not saying that it wasn't evacuated/charged because I don't
remember if the installer did it or not, so I'm just curious.

Thanks!

Are you sure you can't get the PVC vent loose and swing it aside?
Me and my bud I do AC work with never install a 3/4 PVC drain without
a union so we can service the drain if it clogs up. You can cut the
3/4 drain line and install a coupling without glue so you can get it
loose. I always use unions anyway. With the 3/4 drain out of the way,
you could easily remove the cover. Big box stores have the unions.

http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/Union-1WKD7

TDD

How would cutting the PVC drain pipe help?

If I cut (or even removed) the drain, I still couldn't pull the bottom
of the panel away from the furnace.

I'd have to rotate the panel along the same plane it's on now, but
there's 4 1/2" of panel between the cut out for the drain and the edge
of the panel. In other words, way too much material to be able to
rotate the panel enough to remove it.

You unscrew the drain pipe which will allow you to rotate the cover
out and remove it. If the A coil is really dirty, I pump the system
down, disconnect the line-set and everything in the way, slide the A
coil out of the housing and take it outside to give it a good cleaning.
I wish I had some pictures of the systems me and my friend GB install
so I could give you an idea of how we install a system so it can be
easily serviced. It amazes me how many AC installers won't spend a few
extra dollars and take a little more time to insure a system can be
accessed for service later on. ^_^

TDD

You sure don't want to release nitrogen to the
air!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! People might
suffocate!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! It's as lethal as dihydrogen
monoxide!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! People could
die!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


wrote in message
...


As far as the coil being shipped charged with Nitrogen
that is
how the coils are protected from damage during shipping
and
installation... All of that gas would have been recovered

You don't recover nitrogen.

What? Plan for the future?
(Some installers do, but not many.)

How do you cover the tubing ends, so water doesn't get into
the coil?
--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"The Daring Dufas" wrote in
message ...


You unscrew the drain pipe which will allow you to rotate
the cover
out and remove it. If the A coil is really dirty, I pump the
system
down, disconnect the line-set and everything in the way,
slide the A
coil out of the housing and take it outside to give it a
good cleaning.
I wish I had some pictures of the systems me and my friend
GB install
so I could give you an idea of how we install a system so it
can be
easily serviced. It amazes me how many AC installers won't
spend a few
extra dollars and take a little more time to insure a system
can be
accessed for service later on. ^_^

TDD

On 5/29/2011 9:01 AM, wrote:
On May 29, 2:25 am, wrote:
On May 29, 1:05 am, The Daring
wrote:





On 5/28/2011 8:17 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:

I have a Conquest 90 Max gas furnace with central air.

I also have a bunch of questions:

1 - The internal coils have not been clean since it was installed 5
years ago, so I decided to take a look and see if they needed
cleaning. Problem is, I'm not sure how to access them.

I removed the screws from the panel where the condensate and
refrigerant pipes are, but as you can see from this picture, I can't
remove the panel because of the vent pipe.

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/62/furnacef.jpg/

If I could tilt the top or bottom of the panel outwards, I could
remove it, but the vent pipe prevents any significant tilting.

There is no other panel that I can remove. The other 3 sides that
surround the coils are a single piece which has the duct work on top
of it. The duct work would have to go up in order for the 3-sided
surround to come off.

How do I get to the coils?

2 - Through the limited opening, I can see into the coil area with a
flashlight. I see 2 tee-pee sets of coils and as far as I can tell
they are perfectly clean, at least on the surfaces that I can see with
the panel open as shown. Should I just close it up and forget about it
or are there areas I should check - assuming I can gain better access?

3 - When I removed the panel I saw 2 stickers, both of which raised
questions in my mind:

3.1 - One sticker has a picture of a "condensate drain trap" made from
a piece of flexible tubing attached to the drain output pipe. As you
can see from the picture, I don't have a trap. At the bottom of the
PVC pipe seen behind the gas line is the condensate pump.

The pump sends the condensate up a flexible tube and across the
ceiling to the utility sink.

I don't need a trap with that set up, do I?

3.2 - The other sticker says: "Coil is shipped with a low pressure (5
-10 psi) charge of dry nitrogen. Evacuate system before charging with
refrigerant."

Would the unit work (i.e. cool) if the system was not evacuated/
charged when it was installed?

I'm not saying that it wasn't evacuated/charged because I don't
remember if the installer did it or not, so I'm just curious.

Thanks!

Are you sure you can't get the PVC vent loose and swing it aside?
Me and my bud I do AC work with never install a 3/4 PVC drain without
a union so we can service the drain if it clogs up. You can cut the
3/4 drain line and install a coupling without glue so you can get it
loose. I always use unions anyway. With the 3/4 drain out of the way,
you could easily remove the cover. Big box stores have the unions.

http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/Union-1WKD7

TDD

@TDD:

That vent pipe is for the flue gasses from the burner in that high
efficiency direct vent furnace... I wouldn't cut into that for any
reason EVER, as if you don't glue it up perfectly when you put
it back you will have issues with carbon monoxide leaking into
your home from the exhaust products during heating season...

While I would not cut the vent pipe unless it was really
necessary, the notion that you can't do it "EVER" because
it's dangerous is pure nonsense. It's just glued together
using regular PVC cement and if you can glue a piece of PVC,
it's no big deal. IF you think that is high risk, explain how all
the furnaces, hot water heaters, etc, prior to high efficiency
used simple galvanized sheet metal pipe that just got shoved
together and secured with sheet metal screws. The seal
there was far worse than what you get today with PVC pipe.

The older systems that you could simply slap together as you described
were natural draft. High efficiency designs use induced draft and the
flue is pressurized because of it.



The better solution here is to have the OP cut the sheet metal
panel which can not clear the obstacles and obtain a piece of
flat stock which he could install so he could screw it back into
one piece when he is closing the coil compartment on the
main trunk duct back up again... The joint the OP cuts in the
cover panel and the screw heads can be sealed up with foil
duct sealing tape...

~~ Evan- Hide quoted text -


I'd like to know how he's going to cut that piece of sheet metal
when the access is so limited. For sure I'd cut the exhaust
pipe before I did that. I'd also check to see what the exhaust
is or isn't connected to inside the furnace. There is a small
chance it could be disconnected from inside.

But, if the coils appear clean, I'd just put it back together and
save a lot of trouble. The real problem here is that the eqpt
manufacturers typically don't provide a means to clean the
coils. Nor do installers take that into account when doing
the install. On the other hand, if you have a decent filter,
I've seen systems that went 25 years and the coils were
still fine.

On May 28, 9:17*pm, DerbyDad03 wrote:
I have a Conquest 90 Max gas furnace with central air.

I also have a bunch of questions:

1 - The internal coils have not been clean since it was installed 5
years ago, so I decided to take a look and see if they needed
cleaning. Problem is, I'm not sure how to access them.

I removed the screws from the panel where the condensate and
refrigerant pipes are, but as you can see from this picture, I can't
remove the panel because of the vent pipe.

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/62/furnacef.jpg/

If I could tilt the top or bottom of the panel outwards, I could
remove it, but the vent pipe prevents any significant tilting.

There is no other panel that I can remove. The other 3 sides that
surround the coils are a single piece which has the duct work on top
of it. The duct work would have to go up in order for the 3-sided
surround to come off.

How do I get to the coils?

2 - Through the limited opening, I can see into the coil area with a
flashlight. I see 2 tee-pee sets of coils and as far as I can tell
they are perfectly clean, at least on the surfaces that I can see with
the panel open as shown. Should I just close it up and forget about it
or are there areas I should check - assuming I can gain better access?

3 - When I removed the panel I saw 2 stickers, both of which raised
questions in my mind:

3.1 - One sticker has a picture of a "condensate drain trap" made from
a piece of flexible tubing attached to the drain output pipe. As you
can see from the picture, I don't have a trap. At the bottom of the
PVC pipe seen behind the gas line is the condensate pump.

The pump sends the condensate up a flexible tube and across the
ceiling to the utility sink.

I don't need a trap with that set up, do I?

3.2 - The other sticker says: "Coil is shipped with a low pressure (5
-10 psi) charge of dry nitrogen. Evacuate system before charging with
refrigerant."

Would the unit work (i.e. cool) if the system was not evacuated/
charged when it was installed?

I'm not saying that it wasn't evacuated/charged because I don't
remember if the installer did it or not, so I'm just curious.

Thanks!

Looks like the installer was lazy......The vent pipe should connect
with an elbow so the pipe is out of the way or should be removeable
if that is not practical.

Jimmie

On 5/28/2011 8:17 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:

3 - When I removed the panel I saw 2 stickers, both of which raised
questions in my mind:

3.1 - One sticker has a picture of a "condensate drain trap" made from
a piece of flexible tubing attached to the drain output pipe. As you
can see from the picture, I don't have a trap. At the bottom of the
PVC pipe seen behind the gas line is the condensate pump.

The pump sends the condensate up a flexible tube and across the
ceiling to the utility sink.

I don't need a trap with that set up, do I?

I believe the trap prevents blowing the slightly higher pressure
discharge air out the condensate drain pipe.


3.2 - The other sticker says: "Coil is shipped with a low pressure (5
-10 psi) charge of dry nitrogen. Evacuate system before charging with
refrigerant."

Would the unit work (i.e. cool) if the system was not evacuated/
charged when it was installed?

The nitrogen definitely should have been removed so there is only
refrigerant in the system. The whole system is pumped down - evaporator
coil, lines, outside unit.

On May 29, 8:46*am, "Stormin Mormon"
wrote:
If you use good air filters, the evaporator should not need
cleaning. To get at it, you'd have to remove the flue pipe,
and also the condensate drain. To further remove the
evaporator, you'd need to pump out the refrigerant and cut
the freon lines. Beyond the skills of most DIY.

Yes, it should have a P-trap between the evaporator and the
cond pump.

What do you think the reason for this is? I know Rheem at
least says you should always have one in the drain line. But
then they don't say anything about putting one in the aux, ie
overflow line for the coils. And even if you did put one in there
because it's only for an overflow, the trap would soon dry
out. Hence, if you have one drain line that is open, why
not two? Also, some installs I've seen they put a trap
in, others none. More common is none from what I've
seen.

My thought would be they would be most concerned
if the drain line was routed to a sewer drain, which
makes sense. Other than that, the trap would prevent
the loss of some conditioned air.




There isn't a lot of nitrogen in the evaporator. The
installer SHOULD have vacuumed the air / nitrogen out of the
coil and the lines. If he didn't, the system still works but
not as efficiently.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
*www.lds.org
.

On May 29, 10:50*am, JIMMIE wrote:
On May 28, 9:17*pm, DerbyDad03 wrote:





I have a Conquest 90 Max gas furnace with central air.

I also have a bunch of questions:

1 - The internal coils have not been clean since it was installed 5
years ago, so I decided to take a look and see if they needed
cleaning. Problem is, I'm not sure how to access them.

I removed the screws from the panel where the condensate and
refrigerant pipes are, but as you can see from this picture, I can't
remove the panel because of the vent pipe.

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/62/furnacef.jpg/

If I could tilt the top or bottom of the panel outwards, I could
remove it, but the vent pipe prevents any significant tilting.

There is no other panel that I can remove. The other 3 sides that
surround the coils are a single piece which has the duct work on top
of it. The duct work would have to go up in order for the 3-sided
surround to come off.

How do I get to the coils?

2 - Through the limited opening, I can see into the coil area with a
flashlight. I see 2 tee-pee sets of coils and as far as I can tell
they are perfectly clean, at least on the surfaces that I can see with
the panel open as shown. Should I just close it up and forget about it
or are there areas I should check - assuming I can gain better access?

3 - When I removed the panel I saw 2 stickers, both of which raised
questions in my mind:

3.1 - One sticker has a picture of a "condensate drain trap" made from
a piece of flexible tubing attached to the drain output pipe. As you
can see from the picture, I don't have a trap. At the bottom of the
PVC pipe seen behind the gas line is the condensate pump.

The pump sends the condensate up a flexible tube and across the
ceiling to the utility sink.

I don't need a trap with that set up, do I?

3.2 - The other sticker says: "Coil is shipped with a low pressure (5
-10 psi) charge of dry nitrogen. Evacuate system before charging with
refrigerant."

Would the unit work (i.e. cool) if the system was not evacuated/
charged when it was installed?

I'm not saying that it wasn't evacuated/charged because I don't
remember if the installer did it or not, so I'm just curious.

Thanks!

Looks like the installer was lazy......The vent pipe should connect
with an elbow so the pipe is out of the way or should be *removeable
if that is not practical.

I don;t see that the installer has any choice. The typical exhaust
fitting is PVC female glue type at the top of the furnace. Putting
an elbow in doesn't solve a thing, you then just have the elbow
in the way. Also, manufacturers spec out the max number
of elbows allowed, and less is better.

And short of not gluing it, I don't see a way to make it removeable.
To make it removeable, which would be a good idea, would
require the manufacturer to do so.






Jimmie- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

On May 29, 10:50*am, JIMMIE wrote:
On May 28, 9:17*pm, DerbyDad03 wrote:









I have a Conquest 90 Max gas furnace with central air.

I also have a bunch of questions:

1 - The internal coils have not been clean since it was installed 5
years ago, so I decided to take a look and see if they needed
cleaning. Problem is, I'm not sure how to access them.

I removed the screws from the panel where the condensate and
refrigerant pipes are, but as you can see from this picture, I can't
remove the panel because of the vent pipe.

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/62/furnacef.jpg/

If I could tilt the top or bottom of the panel outwards, I could
remove it, but the vent pipe prevents any significant tilting.

There is no other panel that I can remove. The other 3 sides that
surround the coils are a single piece which has the duct work on top
of it. The duct work would have to go up in order for the 3-sided
surround to come off.

How do I get to the coils?

2 - Through the limited opening, I can see into the coil area with a
flashlight. I see 2 tee-pee sets of coils and as far as I can tell
they are perfectly clean, at least on the surfaces that I can see with
the panel open as shown. Should I just close it up and forget about it
or are there areas I should check - assuming I can gain better access?

3 - When I removed the panel I saw 2 stickers, both of which raised
questions in my mind:

3.1 - One sticker has a picture of a "condensate drain trap" made from
a piece of flexible tubing attached to the drain output pipe. As you
can see from the picture, I don't have a trap. At the bottom of the
PVC pipe seen behind the gas line is the condensate pump.

The pump sends the condensate up a flexible tube and across the
ceiling to the utility sink.

I don't need a trap with that set up, do I?

3.2 - The other sticker says: "Coil is shipped with a low pressure (5
-10 psi) charge of dry nitrogen. Evacuate system before charging with
refrigerant."

Would the unit work (i.e. cool) if the system was not evacuated/
charged when it was installed?

I'm not saying that it wasn't evacuated/charged because I don't
remember if the installer did it or not, so I'm just curious.

Thanks!

Looks like the installer was lazy......The vent pipe should connect
with an elbow so the pipe is out of the way or should be *removeable
if that is not practical.

Jimmie

How would an elbow help? The panel goes all the down to the top of
furnace housing.

If an elbow had been used, the elbow would be in the way.

The only way the vent will not be in the way is if it is removed from
the exhaust port completely.

On May 29, 11:06*am, bud-- wrote:
On 5/28/2011 8:17 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:



3 - When I removed the panel I saw 2 stickers, both of which raised
questions in my mind:

3.1 - One sticker has a picture of a "condensate drain trap" made from
a piece of flexible tubing attached to the drain output pipe. As you
can see from the picture, I don't have a trap. At the bottom of the
PVC pipe seen behind the gas line is the condensate pump.

The pump sends the condensate up a flexible tube and across the
ceiling to the utility sink.

I don't need a trap with that set up, do I?

I believe the trap prevents blowing the slightly higher pressure
discharge air out the condensate drain pipe.

That was my thought too. But then you still have the overflow drain
outlet that even if it had a trap, the trap would soon dry out and
be useless. I guess having 1/2 as much air loss is better though.





3.2 - The other sticker says: "Coil is shipped with a low pressure (5
-10 psi) charge of dry nitrogen. Evacuate system before charging with
refrigerant."

Would the unit work (i.e. cool) if the system was not evacuated/
charged when it was installed?

The nitrogen definitely should have been removed so there is only
refrigerant in the system. The whole system is pumped down - evaporator
coil, lines, outside unit.

Most of the nitrogen just escape to the atmosphere when the factory
plugs
are removed. Then you're supposed to flow nitrogen through the tubing
while brazing. Then that nitrogen gets vacuumed out. The outside
unit,
ie condenser, is usually shipped pre-charged with R410A so that does
not need to be pumped down.

On May 29, 10:07*am, George wrote:
On 5/29/2011 9:01 AM, wrote:

On May 29, 2:25 am, *wrote:
On May 29, 1:05 am, The Daring
wrote:

On 5/28/2011 8:17 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:

I have a Conquest 90 Max gas furnace with central air.

I also have a bunch of questions:

1 - The internal coils have not been clean since it was installed 5
years ago, so I decided to take a look and see if they needed
cleaning. Problem is, I'm not sure how to access them.

I removed the screws from the panel where the condensate and
refrigerant pipes are, but as you can see from this picture, I can't
remove the panel because of the vent pipe.

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/62/furnacef.jpg/

If I could tilt the top or bottom of the panel outwards, I could
remove it, but the vent pipe prevents any significant tilting.

There is no other panel that I can remove. The other 3 sides that
surround the coils are a single piece which has the duct work on top
of it. The duct work would have to go up in order for the 3-sided
surround to come off.

How do I get to the coils?

2 - Through the limited opening, I can see into the coil area with a
flashlight. I see 2 tee-pee sets of coils and as far as I can tell
they are perfectly clean, at least on the surfaces that I can see with
the panel open as shown. Should I just close it up and forget about it
or are there areas I should check - assuming I can gain better access?

3 - When I removed the panel I saw 2 stickers, both of which raised
questions in my mind:

3.1 - One sticker has a picture of a "condensate drain trap" made from
a piece of flexible tubing attached to the drain output pipe. As you
can see from the picture, I don't have a trap. At the bottom of the
PVC pipe seen behind the gas line is the condensate pump.

The pump sends the condensate up a flexible tube and across the
ceiling to the utility sink.

I don't need a trap with that set up, do I?

3.2 - The other sticker says: "Coil is shipped with a low pressure (5
-10 psi) charge of dry nitrogen. Evacuate system before charging with
refrigerant."

Would the unit work (i.e. cool) if the system was not evacuated/
charged when it was installed?

I'm not saying that it wasn't evacuated/charged because I don't
remember if the installer did it or not, so I'm just curious.

Thanks!

Are you sure you can't get the PVC vent loose and swing it aside?
Me and my bud I do AC work with never install a 3/4 PVC drain without
a union so we can service the drain if it clogs up. You can cut the
3/4 drain line and install a coupling without glue so you can get it
loose. I always use unions anyway. With the 3/4 drain out of the way,
you could easily remove the cover. Big box stores have the unions.

http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/Union-1WKD7

TDD

@TDD:

That vent pipe is for the flue gasses from the burner in that high
efficiency direct vent furnace... *I wouldn't cut into that for any
reason EVER, as if you don't glue it up perfectly when you put
it back you will have issues with carbon monoxide leaking into
your home from the exhaust products during heating season...

While I would not cut the vent pipe unless it was really
necessary, the notion that you can't do it "EVER" because
it's dangerous is pure nonsense. *It's just glued together
using regular PVC cement and if you can glue a piece of PVC,
it's no big deal. * IF you think that is high risk, explain how all
the furnaces, hot water heaters, etc, prior to high efficiency
used simple galvanized sheet metal pipe that just got shoved
together and secured with sheet metal screws. *The seal
there was far worse than what you get today with PVC pipe.

The older systems that you could simply slap together as you described
were natural draft. High efficiency designs use induced draft and the
flue is pressurized because of it.



The better solution here is to have the OP cut the sheet metal
panel which can not clear the obstacles and obtain a piece of
flat stock which he could install so he could screw it back into
one piece when he is closing the coil compartment on the
main trunk duct back up again... *The joint the OP cuts in the
cover panel and the screw heads can be sealed up with foil
duct sealing tape...

~~ Evan- Hide quoted text -

I'd like to know how he's going to cut that piece of sheet metal
when the access is so limited. *For sure I'd cut the exhaust
pipe before I did that. I'd also check to see what the exhaust
is or isn't connected to inside the furnace. *There is a small
chance it could be disconnected from inside.

But, if the coils appear clean, I'd just put it back together and
save a lot of trouble. * The real problem here is that the eqpt
manufacturers typically don't provide a means to clean the
coils. *Nor do installers take that into account when doing
the install. *On the other hand, if you have a decent filter,
I've seen systems that went 25 years and the coils were
still fine.

Yes, that and you can have a slightly imperfect glue joint on
a length of PVC drain pipe and never find out about it until
the line clogs and the entire pipe fills up with water...

With a high efficiency condensing boiler exhaust pipe,
there is an induced draft in the flue pipe and it is
under pressure, any imperfection in the PVC glue
joints in a flue pipe on such a boiler would allow
dangerous carbon monoxide gas to leak into the
house...

~~ Evan

DerbyDad03 wrote:

3.1 - One sticker has a picture of a "condensate drain trap" made from
a piece of flexible tubing attached to the drain output pipe. As you
can see from the picture, I don't have a trap. At the bottom of the
PVC pipe seen behind the gas line is the condensate pump.

The pump sends the condensate up a flexible tube and across the
ceiling to the utility sink.

I don't need a trap with that set up, do I?


A p-trap on the condensate line serves the same purpose as a p-trap on a
sink: it blocks sewer gas from infiltrating your A/C system.

Your question can be answered with another question: Does your house
sometimes smell like a privy?

"HeyBub" wrote

The pump sends the condensate up a flexible tube and across the
ceiling to the utility sink.

I don't need a trap with that set up, do I?


A p-trap on the condensate line serves the same purpose as a p-trap on a
sink: it blocks sewer gas from infiltrating your A/C system.

Your question can be answered with another question: Does your house
sometimes smell like a privy?


He's dumping the condensate into a sink.

If he was going into a drain, he'd need a trap for the reason you stated.
If he wad going outside to the ground, he'd want a trap to keep bugs from
crawling in. I don't see any need for a trap in this case.

The air flowing past the end of the drain tube can create
the venturi effect. The air coming in via the untrapped
drain line can prevent the drain from properly draining. So.
the water ends up in the HVAC equipment, instead of out the
drain. That's what I've been told.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


wrote in message
...
On May 29, 8:46 am, "Stormin Mormon"
wrote:

Yes, it should have a P-trap between the evaporator and
the
cond pump.

What do you think the reason for this is? I know Rheem at
least says you should always have one in the drain line.
But
then they don't say anything about putting one in the aux,
ie
overflow line for the coils. And even if you did put one in
there
because it's only for an overflow, the trap would soon dry
out. Hence, if you have one drain line that is open, why
not two? Also, some installs I've seen they put a trap
in, others none. More common is none from what I've
seen.

My thought would be they would be most concerned
if the drain line was routed to a sewer drain, which
makes sense. Other than that, the trap would prevent
the loss of some conditioned air.

Saving rubber plugs is truly thoughtful. I'd have thought a
Baggie, tied on with electrical tape, Yes, outdoor
professional cleaning can be needed.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"The Daring Dufas" wrote in
message ...
On 5/29/2011 8:51 AM, Stormin Mormon wrote:
What? Plan for the future?
(Some installers do, but not many.)

How do you cover the tubing ends, so water doesn't get
into
the coil?

Aluminum foil tape usually. I often hang on to the rubber
plugs that
come with equipment and refrigeration tubing. You can insert
the plugs
with the right sized Phillips head screw driver. Removing an
evaporator
and taking it outdoors to clean is the only option for a
really dirty
coil. ^_^

TDD

On May 30, 7:03*am, "HeyBub" wrote:
DerbyDad03 wrote:

3.1 - One sticker has a picture of a "condensate drain trap" made from
a piece of flexible tubing attached to the drain output pipe. As you
can see from the picture, I don't have a trap. At the bottom of the
PVC pipe seen behind the gas line is the condensate pump.

The pump sends the condensate up a flexible tube and across the
ceiling to the utility sink.

I don't need a trap with that set up, do I?

A p-trap on the condensate line serves the same purpose as a p-trap on a
sink: it blocks sewer gas from infiltrating your A/C system.

...
Your question can be answered with another question: Does your house
sometimes smell like a privy?

Your answer can be questioned with another question:

How are sewer gases going to get into a piece of flexible tubing that
hangs over a utility sink?

On May 29, 11:39*pm, Evan wrote:
On May 29, 10:07*am, George wrote:





On 5/29/2011 9:01 AM, wrote:

On May 29, 2:25 am, *wrote:
On May 29, 1:05 am, The Daring
wrote:

On 5/28/2011 8:17 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:

I have a Conquest 90 Max gas furnace with central air.

I also have a bunch of questions:

1 - The internal coils have not been clean since it was installed 5
years ago, so I decided to take a look and see if they needed
cleaning. Problem is, I'm not sure how to access them.

I removed the screws from the panel where the condensate and
refrigerant pipes are, but as you can see from this picture, I can't
remove the panel because of the vent pipe.

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/62/furnacef.jpg/

If I could tilt the top or bottom of the panel outwards, I could
remove it, but the vent pipe prevents any significant tilting.

There is no other panel that I can remove. The other 3 sides that
surround the coils are a single piece which has the duct work on top
of it. The duct work would have to go up in order for the 3-sided
surround to come off.

How do I get to the coils?

2 - Through the limited opening, I can see into the coil area with a
flashlight. I see 2 tee-pee sets of coils and as far as I can tell
they are perfectly clean, at least on the surfaces that I can see with
the panel open as shown. Should I just close it up and forget about it
or are there areas I should check - assuming I can gain better access?

3 - When I removed the panel I saw 2 stickers, both of which raised
questions in my mind:

3.1 - One sticker has a picture of a "condensate drain trap" made from
a piece of flexible tubing attached to the drain output pipe. As you
can see from the picture, I don't have a trap. At the bottom of the
PVC pipe seen behind the gas line is the condensate pump.

The pump sends the condensate up a flexible tube and across the
ceiling to the utility sink.

I don't need a trap with that set up, do I?

3.2 - The other sticker says: "Coil is shipped with a low pressure (5
-10 psi) charge of dry nitrogen. Evacuate system before charging with
refrigerant."

Would the unit work (i.e. cool) if the system was not evacuated/
charged when it was installed?

I'm not saying that it wasn't evacuated/charged because I don't
remember if the installer did it or not, so I'm just curious.

Thanks!

Are you sure you can't get the PVC vent loose and swing it aside?
Me and my bud I do AC work with never install a 3/4 PVC drain without
a union so we can service the drain if it clogs up. You can cut the
3/4 drain line and install a coupling without glue so you can get it
loose. I always use unions anyway. With the 3/4 drain out of the way,
you could easily remove the cover. Big box stores have the unions.

http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/Union-1WKD7

TDD

@TDD:

That vent pipe is for the flue gasses from the burner in that high
efficiency direct vent furnace... *I wouldn't cut into that for any
reason EVER, as if you don't glue it up perfectly when you put
it back you will have issues with carbon monoxide leaking into
your home from the exhaust products during heating season...

While I would not cut the vent pipe unless it was really
necessary, the notion that you can't do it "EVER" because
it's dangerous is pure nonsense. *It's just glued together
using regular PVC cement and if you can glue a piece of PVC,
it's no big deal. * IF you think that is high risk, explain how all
the furnaces, hot water heaters, etc, prior to high efficiency
used simple galvanized sheet metal pipe that just got shoved
together and secured with sheet metal screws. *The seal
there was far worse than what you get today with PVC pipe.

The older systems that you could simply slap together as you described
were natural draft. High efficiency designs use induced draft and the
flue is pressurized because of it.

The better solution here is to have the OP cut the sheet metal
panel which can not clear the obstacles and obtain a piece of
flat stock which he could install so he could screw it back into
one piece when he is closing the coil compartment on the
main trunk duct back up again... *The joint the OP cuts in the
cover panel and the screw heads can be sealed up with foil
duct sealing tape...

~~ Evan- Hide quoted text -

I'd like to know how he's going to cut that piece of sheet metal
when the access is so limited. *For sure I'd cut the exhaust
pipe before I did that. I'd also check to see what the exhaust
is or isn't connected to inside the furnace. *There is a small
chance it could be disconnected from inside.

But, if the coils appear clean, I'd just put it back together and
save a lot of trouble. * The real problem here is that the eqpt
manufacturers typically don't provide a means to clean the
coils. *Nor do installers take that into account when doing
the install. *On the other hand, if you have a decent filter,
I've seen systems that went 25 years and the coils were
still fine.

Yes, that and you can have a slightly imperfect glue joint on
a length of PVC drain pipe and never find out about it until
the line clogs and the entire pipe fills up with water...

With a high efficiency condensing boiler exhaust pipe,
there is an induced draft in the flue pipe and it is
under pressure, any imperfection in the PVC glue
joints in a flue pipe on such a boiler would allow
dangerous carbon monoxide gas to leak into the
house...

~~ Evan- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

What exactly do you think the typical HVAC guy does
with regard to that PVC exhaust pipe that is so
different from what a guy like DerbyCad could do?
Do they use some secret solvent or glue? No
Do they use some special skills, different from
gluing ordinary PVC pipe? No
Do they presssure test it for leaks? No

You jump into things you don't understand and
issue all kinds of nonsensical advice. Some
recent examples:

Code says metal eletrical conduit can't touch
metal HVAC ducts or any other metal

Nitrogen is recovered from an HVAC system



I would not cut that PVC exhaust pipe to clean
the coils, because he's looked at them and said
they are clean. But if Derby wants to cut it, for whatever
reason it can be put back in place with a simple PVC
coupling.

Also, there is no dangerous amount of CO to
leak back into the building unless the furnace
is operating improperly. And even then, it would
have to a significant, leak, not a small pinhole
leak.. Yeah, there is slight pressure in that
PVC exhaust pipe, but it's minimal.
It's not a 50PSI pipe.

This is a homerepair newgroup, isn't it? Explain
how gluing a simple PVC coupling into a furnace
exhaust is any more dangerous than a homeowner
replacing a gas stove or dryer. Or wiring up
their own hot tub or dozens of other things that
they do every day.

On 5/30/2011 7:23 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On May 30, 7:03 am, wrote:
DerbyDad03 wrote:

3.1 - One sticker has a picture of a "condensate drain trap" made from
a piece of flexible tubing attached to the drain output pipe. As you
can see from the picture, I don't have a trap. At the bottom of the
PVC pipe seen behind the gas line is the condensate pump.

The pump sends the condensate up a flexible tube and across the
ceiling to the utility sink.

I don't need a trap with that set up, do I?

A p-trap on the condensate line serves the same purpose as a p-trap on a
sink: it blocks sewer gas from infiltrating your A/C system.

..
Your question can be answered with another question: Does your house
sometimes smell like a privy?

Your answer can be questioned with another question:

How are sewer gases going to get into a piece of flexible tubing that
hangs over a utility sink?

Here (and probably everywhere else) condensate drains are an "indirect
waste" and go through an air break to a sink or floor drain. They can't
connect directly into a sewer system.

On May 30, 8:51*am, "
wrote:
On May 29, 11:39*pm, Evan wrote:





On May 29, 10:07*am, George wrote:

On 5/29/2011 9:01 AM, wrote:

On May 29, 2:25 am, *wrote:
On May 29, 1:05 am, The Daring
wrote:

On 5/28/2011 8:17 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:

I have a Conquest 90 Max gas furnace with central air.

I also have a bunch of questions:

1 - The internal coils have not been clean since it was installed 5
years ago, so I decided to take a look and see if they needed
cleaning. Problem is, I'm not sure how to access them.

I removed the screws from the panel where the condensate and
refrigerant pipes are, but as you can see from this picture, I can't
remove the panel because of the vent pipe.

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/62/furnacef.jpg/

If I could tilt the top or bottom of the panel outwards, I could
remove it, but the vent pipe prevents any significant tilting.

There is no other panel that I can remove. The other 3 sides that
surround the coils are a single piece which has the duct work on top
of it. The duct work would have to go up in order for the 3-sided
surround to come off.

How do I get to the coils?

2 - Through the limited opening, I can see into the coil area with a
flashlight. I see 2 tee-pee sets of coils and as far as I can tell
they are perfectly clean, at least on the surfaces that I can see with
the panel open as shown. Should I just close it up and forget about it
or are there areas I should check - assuming I can gain better access?

3 - When I removed the panel I saw 2 stickers, both of which raised
questions in my mind:

3.1 - One sticker has a picture of a "condensate drain trap" made from
a piece of flexible tubing attached to the drain output pipe. As you
can see from the picture, I don't have a trap. At the bottom of the
PVC pipe seen behind the gas line is the condensate pump.

The pump sends the condensate up a flexible tube and across the
ceiling to the utility sink.

I don't need a trap with that set up, do I?

3.2 - The other sticker says: "Coil is shipped with a low pressure (5
-10 psi) charge of dry nitrogen. Evacuate system before charging with
refrigerant."

Would the unit work (i.e. cool) if the system was not evacuated/
charged when it was installed?

I'm not saying that it wasn't evacuated/charged because I don't
remember if the installer did it or not, so I'm just curious.

Thanks!

Are you sure you can't get the PVC vent loose and swing it aside?
Me and my bud I do AC work with never install a 3/4 PVC drain without
a union so we can service the drain if it clogs up. You can cut the
3/4 drain line and install a coupling without glue so you can get it
loose. I always use unions anyway. With the 3/4 drain out of the way,
you could easily remove the cover. Big box stores have the unions..

http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/Union-1WKD7

TDD

@TDD:

That vent pipe is for the flue gasses from the burner in that high
efficiency direct vent furnace... *I wouldn't cut into that for any
reason EVER, as if you don't glue it up perfectly when you put
it back you will have issues with carbon monoxide leaking into
your home from the exhaust products during heating season...

While I would not cut the vent pipe unless it was really
necessary, the notion that you can't do it "EVER" because
it's dangerous is pure nonsense. *It's just glued together
using regular PVC cement and if you can glue a piece of PVC,
it's no big deal. * IF you think that is high risk, explain how all
the furnaces, hot water heaters, etc, prior to high efficiency
used simple galvanized sheet metal pipe that just got shoved
together and secured with sheet metal screws. *The seal
there was far worse than what you get today with PVC pipe.

The older systems that you could simply slap together as you described
were natural draft. High efficiency designs use induced draft and the
flue is pressurized because of it.

The better solution here is to have the OP cut the sheet metal
panel which can not clear the obstacles and obtain a piece of
flat stock which he could install so he could screw it back into
one piece when he is closing the coil compartment on the
main trunk duct back up again... *The joint the OP cuts in the
cover panel and the screw heads can be sealed up with foil
duct sealing tape...

~~ Evan- Hide quoted text -

I'd like to know how he's going to cut that piece of sheet metal
when the access is so limited. *For sure I'd cut the exhaust
pipe before I did that. I'd also check to see what the exhaust
is or isn't connected to inside the furnace. *There is a small
chance it could be disconnected from inside.

But, if the coils appear clean, I'd just put it back together and
save a lot of trouble. * The real problem here is that the eqpt
manufacturers typically don't provide a means to clean the
coils. *Nor do installers take that into account when doing
the install. *On the other hand, if you have a decent filter,
I've seen systems that went 25 years and the coils were
still fine.

Yes, that and you can have a slightly imperfect glue joint on
a length of PVC drain pipe and never find out about it until
the line clogs and the entire pipe fills up with water...

With a high efficiency condensing boiler exhaust pipe,
there is an induced draft in the flue pipe and it is
under pressure, any imperfection in the PVC glue
joints in a flue pipe on such a boiler would allow
dangerous carbon monoxide gas to leak into the
house...

~~ Evan- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

What exactly do you think the typical HVAC guy does
with regard to that PVC exhaust pipe that is so
different from what a guy like DerbyCad could do?
Do they use some secret solvent or glue? *No
Do they use some special skills, different from
gluing ordinary PVC pipe? *No
Do they presssure test it for leaks? *No

You jump into things you don't understand and
issue all kinds of nonsensical advice. *Some
recent examples:

Code says metal eletrical conduit can't touch
metal HVAC ducts or any other metal

Nitrogen is recovered from an HVAC system

*I would not cut that PVC exhaust pipe to clean
*the coils, because he's looked at them and said
they are clean. But if Derby wants to cut it, for whatever
*reason it can be put back in place with a simple PVC
coupling.

Also, there is no dangerous amount of CO to
*leak back into the building unless the furnace
*is operating improperly. *And even then, it would
have to a significant, leak, not a small pinhole
leak.. *Yeah, there is slight pressure in that
PVC exhaust pipe, but it's minimal.
*It's not a 50PSI pipe.

This is a homerepair newgroup, isn't it? *Explain
how gluing a simple PVC coupling into a furnace
*exhaust is any more dangerous than a homeowner
replacing a gas stove or dryer. *Or wiring up
their own hot tub or dozens of other things that
they do every day.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Trader4:

Are you implying that I shouldn't take Evan's advice to grab a pair of
shears and cut the access panel in half (while it's still stuck behind
the vent) and then fabricate my own panel to cover the gap ceated by
the cut?

That seems so much easier than altering a PVC pipe. ;-)

bud-- wrote:
On 5/30/2011 7:23 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On May 30, 7:03 am, wrote:
DerbyDad03 wrote:

3.1 - One sticker has a picture of a "condensate drain trap" made
from a piece of flexible tubing attached to the drain output pipe.
As you can see from the picture, I don't have a trap. At the
bottom of the PVC pipe seen behind the gas line is the condensate
pump.

The pump sends the condensate up a flexible tube and across the
ceiling to the utility sink.

I don't need a trap with that set up, do I?

A p-trap on the condensate line serves the same purpose as a p-trap
on a sink: it blocks sewer gas from infiltrating your A/C system.

..
Your question can be answered with another question: Does your house
sometimes smell like a privy?

Your answer can be questioned with another question:

How are sewer gases going to get into a piece of flexible tubing that
hangs over a utility sink?

Here (and probably everywhere else) condensate drains are an "indirect
waste" and go through an air break to a sink or floor drain. They
can't connect directly into a sewer system.

My bad. I thought his condensate drain went to the sink's vent pipe (mine
does).