More questions regarding my plumbing project of yesterday. I replaced
two valve stems in a shower/tub and had to clean out material that was
clogging what I assume are the valve seats due to low flow. I did
this by gently disturbing the material with a small screwdriver, then
blowing it out without the stems in place.

Today I tried draining the hot water heater since the hot faucet is
the one that was clogged yesterday. When I opened the drain to drain
the tank very little water came out so I turned the water to the
heater on to flush it out and let it run for several minutes. Then
turned the tank's water control off and still no water drained from
it. So I closed the drain pipe and turned the water back on to fill
the heater. Tank had never been drained before this attempt.

Then when in the bathroom where I replaced the valve stems a couple of
hours later, I could and still can hear what sounds like water running
behind the wall. Water flow in the tub was reduced for both hot and
cold this time, so I removed the stems and again there was this white
sediment clogging both valves. I cleaned that out again.

The water supply valve for the house is OFF, but I am still hearing
what sounds like water running behind the shower wall. No water
leaking from the valves or any faucet in the house. The water shut
off valve is just outside the affected shower wall. This bathroom is
the furthest site of water consumption from the water heater.

Could I have damaged something by running water through the hot water
heater for an extended time period? Or could what I'm hearing be air
in the pipes? Unfortunately, this does not sound like air. I'm not
getting how I could be hearing water running behind the wall with the
main supply valve off.

Any ideas?

Thanks.

On Mar 26, 5:35*pm, wrote:
More questions regarding my plumbing project of yesterday. *I replaced
two valve stems in a shower/tub and had to clean out material that was
clogging what I assume are the valve seats due to low flow. *I did
this by gently disturbing the material with a small screwdriver, then
blowing it out without the stems in place.

Today I tried draining the hot water heater since the hot faucet is
the one that was clogged yesterday. *When I opened the drain to drain
the tank very little water came out so I turned the water to the
heater on to flush it out and let it run for several minutes. *Then
turned the tank's water control off and still no water drained from
it. *So I closed the drain pipe and turned the water back on to fill
the heater. *Tank had never been drained before this attempt.

Then when in the bathroom where I replaced the valve stems a couple of
hours later, I could and still can hear what sounds like water running
behind the wall. *Water flow in the tub was reduced for both hot and
cold this time, so I removed the stems and again there was this white
sediment clogging both valves. *I cleaned that out again.

The water supply valve for the house is OFF, but I am still hearing
what sounds like water running behind the shower wall. *No water
leaking from the valves or any faucet in the house. *The water shut
off valve is just outside the affected shower wall. *This bathroom is
the furthest site of water consumption from the water heater.

Could I have damaged something by running water through the hot water
heater for an extended time period? *Or could what I'm hearing be air
in the pipes? *Unfortunately, this does not sound like air. *I'm not
getting how I could be hearing water running behind the wall with the
main supply valve off.

Any ideas?

Thanks.

confirm main shutoff valve is closed, open valves at lowest place in
home, open all valves thru house. the lowest valves should drain for a
bit then stop, unless your main inlet valve is bad.

thats a strong possiblity, it happened to me a very memorable day:
( YUK

Did the water running sound stop? It should with everything shut off
and drained.

With a older water heater its best to leave them be, the drasin valve
is likely cheap plastic designed for one thing draining tank at end of
life. Most often they leak if disturbed.

You can get a screw on cap to stop its leaking.

I HOPE you turned the gas or electric off when draing the tank, if the
water level dropped it can do permanent damage to your tank.

What kind of water lines do you have ? galvanized? copper? plastic?
PEX?

On Mar 26, 6:09*pm, bob haller wrote:
On Mar 26, 5:35*pm, wrote:





More questions regarding my plumbing project of yesterday. *I replaced
two valve stems in a shower/tub and had to clean out material that was
clogging what I assume are the valve seats due to low flow. *I did
this by gently disturbing the material with a small screwdriver, then
blowing it out without the stems in place.

Today I tried draining the hot water heater since the hot faucet is
the one that was clogged yesterday. *When I opened the drain to drain
the tank very little water came out so I turned the water to the
heater on to flush it out and let it run for several minutes. *Then
turned the tank's water control off and still no water drained from
it. *So I closed the drain pipe and turned the water back on to fill
the heater. *Tank had never been drained before this attempt.

Then when in the bathroom where I replaced the valve stems a couple of
hours later, I could and still can hear what sounds like water running
behind the wall. *Water flow in the tub was reduced for both hot and
cold this time, so I removed the stems and again there was this white
sediment clogging both valves. *I cleaned that out again.

The water supply valve for the house is OFF, but I am still hearing
what sounds like water running behind the shower wall. *No water
leaking from the valves or any faucet in the house. *The water shut
off valve is just outside the affected shower wall. *This bathroom is
the furthest site of water consumption from the water heater.

Could I have damaged something by running water through the hot water
heater for an extended time period? *Or could what I'm hearing be air
in the pipes? *Unfortunately, this does not sound like air. *I'm not
getting how I could be hearing water running behind the wall with the
main supply valve off.

Any ideas?

Thanks.

confirm main shutoff valve is closed, open valves at lowest place in
home, open all valves thru house. the lowest valves should drain for a
bit then stop, unless your main inlet valve is bad.

thats a strong possiblity, it happened to me a very memorable day:
( YUK

Did the water running sound stop? It should with everything shut off
and drained.

With a older water heater its best to leave them be, the drasin valve
is likely cheap plastic designed for one thing draining tank at end of
life. Most often they leak if disturbed.

You can get a screw on cap to stop its leaking.

I HOPE you turned the gas or electric off when draing the tank, if the
water level dropped it can do permanent damage to your tank.

What kind of water lines do you have ? galvanized? copper? plastic?
PEX?- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

With main valve off is the meter moving over time?

On Mar 26, 6:09*pm, bob haller wrote:
On Mar 26, 5:35*pm, wrote:



More questions regarding my plumbing project of yesterday. *I replaced
two valve stems in a shower/tub and had to clean out material that was
clogging what I assume are the valve seats due to low flow. *I did
this by gently disturbing the material with a small screwdriver, then
blowing it out without the stems in place.

Today I tried draining the hot water heater since the hot faucet is
the one that was clogged yesterday. *When I opened the drain to drain
the tank very little water came out so I turned the water to the
heater on to flush it out and let it run for several minutes. *Then
turned the tank's water control off and still no water drained from
it. *So I closed the drain pipe and turned the water back on to fill
the heater. *Tank had never been drained before this attempt.

Then when in the bathroom where I replaced the valve stems a couple of
hours later, I could and still can hear what sounds like water running
behind the wall. *Water flow in the tub was reduced for both hot and
cold this time, so I removed the stems and again there was this white
sediment clogging both valves. *I cleaned that out again.

The water supply valve for the house is OFF, but I am still hearing
what sounds like water running behind the shower wall. *No water
leaking from the valves or any faucet in the house. *The water shut
off valve is just outside the affected shower wall. *This bathroom is
the furthest site of water consumption from the water heater.

Could I have damaged something by running water through the hot water
heater for an extended time period? *Or could what I'm hearing be air
in the pipes? *Unfortunately, this does not sound like air. *I'm not
getting how I could be hearing water running behind the wall with the
main supply valve off.

Any ideas?

Thanks.

confirm main shutoff valve is closed, open valves at lowest place in
home, open all valves thru house. the lowest valves should drain for a
bit then stop, unless your main inlet valve is bad.

thats a strong possiblity, it happened to me a very memorable day:
( YUK

Did the water running sound stop? It should with everything shut off
and drained.

With a older water heater its best to leave them be, the drasin valve
is likely cheap plastic designed for one thing draining tank at end of
life. Most often they leak if disturbed.

You can get a screw on cap to stop its leaking.

I HOPE you turned the gas or electric off when draing the tank, if the
water level dropped it can do permanent damage to your tank.

What kind of water lines do you have ? galvanized? copper? plastic?
PEX?

Thank you for the reply.

The water department was just here and turned off the meter. That
turned off the water. So I have a broken pipe at some point. I could
also hear the water running outside next to the shut off with the
valve off. I wonder whether that suggests that the break is outside?

This is an older house and I really don't know what the pipes are made
off.

If it is the main inlet valve that is bad, wouldn't there still be
water available at the faucets with the valve off? There isn't any
right now with the valve off. Not even a drip coming out of the tub
valves with the stems out.

And by the way, yes the electric was off when draining the H/W tank.

I am really not getting the connection between draining the h/w tank
or even replacing the valve stems and this break. Guess I'll find out
when I get a plumber out here.

Thanks again for the input.

Sounds serious. Hope you have relatives nearby, you can fill
water jugs and such. Neighbor to let you run some water, for
toilet flushing and other essentials. Living with water off,
is no fun. I know, I've done it for a couple hours here and
there.

Saturday March 26, at 6:53 PM is a bad time to be calling a
plumber.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


wrote in message
...

The water department was just here and turned off the meter.
That
turned off the water. So I have a broken pipe at some
point. I could
also hear the water running outside next to the shut off
with the
valve off. I wonder whether that suggests that the break is
outside?

This is an older house and I really don't know what the
pipes are made
off.

If it is the main inlet valve that is bad, wouldn't there
still be
water available at the faucets with the valve off? There
isn't any
right now with the valve off. Not even a drip coming out of
the tub
valves with the stems out.

And by the way, yes the electric was off when draining the
H/W tank.

I am really not getting the connection between draining the
h/w tank
or even replacing the valve stems and this break. Guess
I'll find out
when I get a plumber out here.

Thanks again for the input.

On Mar 26, 6:53*pm, wrote:
On Mar 26, 6:09*pm, bob haller wrote:





On Mar 26, 5:35*pm, wrote:

More questions regarding my plumbing project of yesterday. *I replaced
two valve stems in a shower/tub and had to clean out material that was
clogging what I assume are the valve seats due to low flow. *I did
this by gently disturbing the material with a small screwdriver, then
blowing it out without the stems in place.

Today I tried draining the hot water heater since the hot faucet is
the one that was clogged yesterday. *When I opened the drain to drain
the tank very little water came out so I turned the water to the
heater on to flush it out and let it run for several minutes. *Then
turned the tank's water control off and still no water drained from
it. *So I closed the drain pipe and turned the water back on to fill
the heater. *Tank had never been drained before this attempt.

Then when in the bathroom where I replaced the valve stems a couple of
hours later, I could and still can hear what sounds like water running
behind the wall. *Water flow in the tub was reduced for both hot and
cold this time, so I removed the stems and again there was this white
sediment clogging both valves. *I cleaned that out again.

The water supply valve for the house is OFF, but I am still hearing
what sounds like water running behind the shower wall. *No water
leaking from the valves or any faucet in the house. *The water shut
off valve is just outside the affected shower wall. *This bathroom is
the furthest site of water consumption from the water heater.

Could I have damaged something by running water through the hot water
heater for an extended time period? *Or could what I'm hearing be air
in the pipes? *Unfortunately, this does not sound like air. *I'm not
getting how I could be hearing water running behind the wall with the
main supply valve off.

Any ideas?

Thanks.

confirm main shutoff valve is closed, open valves at lowest place in
home, open all valves thru house. the lowest valves should drain for a
bit then stop, unless your main inlet valve is bad.

thats a strong possiblity, it happened to me a very memorable day:
( YUK

Did the water running sound stop? It should with everything shut off
and drained.

With a older water heater its best to leave them be, the drasin valve
is likely cheap plastic designed for one thing draining tank at end of
life. Most often they leak if disturbed.

You can get a screw on cap to stop its leaking.

I HOPE you turned the gas or electric off when draing the tank, if the
water level dropped it can do permanent damage to your tank.

What kind of water lines do you have ? galvanized? copper? plastic?
PEX?

Thank you for the reply.

The water department was just here and turned off the meter. *That
turned off the water. *So I have a broken pipe at some point. *I could
also hear the water running outside next to the shut off with the
valve off. *I wonder whether that suggests that the break is outside?

This is an older house and I really don't know what the pipes are made
off.

If it is the main inlet valve that is bad, wouldn't there still be
water available at the faucets with the valve off?

That depends on what you mean by bad. If it's failed so that water
gets
by the valve when it's closed, then the answer would be yes. But if
it's failed by leaking water to the outside, then it would have no
effect
on water getting by the valve. Why would you think the valve might
be bad to begin with?


*There isn't any
right now with the valve off. *Not even a drip coming out of the tub
valves with the stems out.

Which is what you would expect. .




And by the way, yes the electric was off when draining the H/W tank.

I am really not getting the connection between draining the h/w tank
or even replacing the valve stems and this break. *Guess I'll find out
when I get a plumber out here.

Draining the water heater should have had no effect on any pipe
breaking. Unless it was in a very deteriorated state and you turned
the water on and off rapidly while it was flowing at a good rate.
That
could have created a surge that pushed the pipe over the edge, but]
it would have happened before long without that additional hellp, if
that is what happened.

Same thing with screwing around with old valve stems. If the plumbing
was about to go, you may have given it the final push.

What's under the area with the wall with the bathroom valves? If you
have access, I'd find out if water is showing up below. If you can
hear
it running and it's moving the meter, the water has to be going
somewhere.
If it turns out to be inside that wall, next consideration is what's
on the
other side. If it's a closet wall for example, that can make the
process
of cutting an access hole easier.






..

wrote:

I am really not getting the connection between draining the h/w tank
or even replacing the valve stems and this break. Guess I'll find out
when I get a plumber out here.


Rare, but not unheard of:

Turning the main valve on rather quickly puts a pressure surge in the pipes.
If a joint or section of pipe was fragile, this sudden surge could cause a
failure.

"HeyBub" wrote in message
m...
wrote:

I am really not getting the connection between draining the h/w tank
or even replacing the valve stems and this break. Guess I'll find out
when I get a plumber out here.


Rare, but not unheard of:

Turning the main valve on rather quickly puts a pressure surge in the
pipes.
If a joint or section of pipe was fragile, this sudden surge could cause a
failure.

Just jostling a section of fragile pipe can cause leaking. This confirms my
decision to search high and low for a new cartridge for my kitchen sink
instead of replacing the whole assembly. Old plumbing is vengeful. Bother
it enough and it will fight back. Hard.

I learned that putting a new toilet in. Everything up the line from what I
was working on failed because the joints were old, calcified and ready to
go. And they went. A simple toilet replacement ended up with torn up
walls, multiple trips to the plumbing supply house and visits to the
neighbors to use their toilets. I did learn that if you're going to be
applying any serious force to an old pipe to strap it down as well as you
can to eliminate the chance of it acting as a huge lever and damaging a
joint upstream.

Same damn thing happened when the shower diverter valve failed. After 70
years stuff happens.

--
Bobby G.

Robert Green wrote:


Rare, but not unheard of:

Turning the main valve on rather quickly puts a pressure surge in
the pipes. If a joint or section of pipe was fragile, this sudden
surge could cause a failure.

Just jostling a section of fragile pipe can cause leaking. This
confirms my decision to search high and low for a new cartridge for
my kitchen sink instead of replacing the whole assembly. Old
plumbing is vengeful. Bother it enough and it will fight back. Hard.

Let us gather at the riv-er, the beautiful, the beautiful riv-er. Amen,
brother.


I learned that putting a new toilet in. Everything up the line from
what I was working on failed because the joints were old, calcified
and ready to go. And they went. A simple toilet replacement ended
up with torn up walls, multiple trips to the plumbing supply house
and visits to the neighbors to use their toilets. I did learn that
if you're going to be applying any serious force to an old pipe to
strap it down as well as you can to eliminate the chance of it acting
as a huge lever and damaging a joint upstream.

Same damn thing happened when the shower diverter valve failed.
After 70 years stuff happens.

Sometimes it's not the pipe's fault.

A bit back I posted an expose regarding my attempt to replace a standard
hose bib with a quarter-turn valve.

Short version:
I put the wrench on the existing bib and gave it a little nudge. The pipe
holding the bib disintegrated! The pipe exited the brick veneer through a
junction between two bricks and was mortared into place. The mortar had
eaten (virtually) through the galvanized pipe.

This turned a straight-forward afternoon task in to a several hundred
curseword job as a 2x2' section of brick wall had to be removed to get to
the pipe on the other side. But wait, it gets better!

I had FOUR of these goddamn pipes to mess with, each with varying degrees of
corruption.

Still, I was lucky to have discovered the issue before a catastrophic
failure.

Robert Green wrote:
wrote in message
m...
wrote:

I am really not getting the connection between draining the h/w tank
or even replacing the valve stems and this break. Guess I'll find out
when I get a plumber out here.


Rare, but not unheard of:

Turning the main valve on rather quickly puts a pressure surge in the
pipes.
If a joint or section of pipe was fragile, this sudden surge could cause a
failure.

Just jostling a section of fragile pipe can cause leaking. This confirms my
decision to search high and low for a new cartridge for my kitchen sink
instead of replacing the whole assembly. Old plumbing is vengeful. Bother
it enough and it will fight back. Hard.

I learned that putting a new toilet in. Everything up the line from what I
was working on failed because the joints were old, calcified and ready to
go. And they went. A simple toilet replacement ended up with torn up
walls, multiple trips to the plumbing supply house and visits to the
neighbors to use their toilets. I did learn that if you're going to be
applying any serious force to an old pipe to strap it down as well as you
can to eliminate the chance of it acting as a huge lever and damaging a
joint upstream.

Same damn thing happened when the shower diverter valve failed. After 70
years stuff happens.

--
Bobby G.

Hi,
It's like being charged with man slaughter running over already dead body.

On Mar 27, 7:02*am, "HeyBub" wrote:
Robert Green wrote:

Rare, but not unheard of:

Turning the main valve on rather quickly puts a pressure surge in
the pipes. If a joint or section of pipe was fragile, this sudden
surge could cause a failure.

Just jostling a section of fragile pipe can cause leaking. *This
confirms my decision to search high and low for a new cartridge for
my kitchen sink instead of replacing the whole assembly. *Old
plumbing is vengeful. *Bother it enough and it will fight back. *Hard.

Let us gather at the riv-er, the beautiful, the beautiful riv-er. Amen,
brother.



I learned that putting a new toilet in. *Everything up the line from
what I was working on failed because the joints were old, calcified
and ready to go. *And they went. *A simple toilet replacement ended
up with torn up walls, multiple trips to the plumbing supply house
and visits to the neighbors to use their toilets. *I did learn that
if you're going to be applying any serious force to an old pipe to
strap it down as well as you can to eliminate the chance of it acting
as a huge lever and damaging a joint upstream.

Same damn thing happened when the shower diverter valve failed.
After 70 years stuff happens.

Sometimes it's not the pipe's fault.

A bit back I posted an expose regarding my attempt to replace a standard
hose bib with a quarter-turn valve.

Short version:
I put the wrench on the existing bib and gave it a little nudge. The pipe
holding the bib disintegrated! The pipe exited the brick veneer through a
junction between two bricks and was mortared into place. The mortar had
eaten (virtually) through the galvanized pipe.

This turned a straight-forward afternoon task in to a several hundred
curseword job as a 2x2' section of brick wall had to be removed to get to
the pipe on the other side. But wait, it gets better!

I had FOUR of these goddamn pipes to mess with, each with varying degrees of
corruption.

Still, I was lucky to have discovered the issue before a catastrophic
failure.

assume galvanized is bad and about to fail because it will

but first flow will be slowed and joints will leak and you will tire
of patch jobs

"HeyBub" wrote in message
m...
Robert Green wrote:


Rare, but not unheard of:

Turning the main valve on rather quickly puts a pressure surge in
the pipes. If a joint or section of pipe was fragile, this sudden
surge could cause a failure.

Just jostling a section of fragile pipe can cause leaking. This
confirms my decision to search high and low for a new cartridge for
my kitchen sink instead of replacing the whole assembly. Old
plumbing is vengeful. Bother it enough and it will fight back. Hard.

Let us gather at the riv-er, the beautiful, the beautiful riv-er. Amen,
brother.

Regarding repairs, electrical work can kill you but only plumbing work can
make you want to kill. That and removing ancient wallpaper from a ceiling.

I learned that putting a new toilet in. Everything up the line from
what I was working on failed because the joints were old, calcified
and ready to go. And they went. A simple toilet replacement ended
up with torn up walls, multiple trips to the plumbing supply house
and visits to the neighbors to use their toilets. I did learn that
if you're going to be applying any serious force to an old pipe to
strap it down as well as you can to eliminate the chance of it acting
as a huge lever and damaging a joint upstream.

Same damn thing happened when the shower diverter valve failed.
After 70 years stuff happens.

Sometimes it's not the pipe's fault.

All this stuff should have been yanked years ago, but this was just a
temporary residence - until the market imploded. I'm thinking of Pexing the
whole damn setup. Thinking and thinking. (-:

A bit back I posted an expose regarding my attempt to replace a standard
hose bib with a quarter-turn valve.

Short version:
I put the wrench on the existing bib and gave it a little nudge. The pipe
holding the bib disintegrated! The pipe exited the brick veneer through a
junction between two bricks and was mortared into place. The mortar had
eaten (virtually) through the galvanized pipe.

I've had my share of hose bib problems. The person who installed the front
yard bib thought it would be a great idea to attach it ahead of the main
shut-off valve instead of running a foot extra of pipe to connect the valve
beyond it. Fortunately, when the water company was doing pipe work and shut
the water off at the street I took the opportunity to install an
electrically controlled whole-house shut-off almost at the point where the
street pipe enters the house, so now I can shut off all the water to the
house remotely. Turns out to be a very good thing to have more than one
shut-off valve because not long after the manual valve needed replacement.

This turned a straight-forward afternoon task in to a several hundred
curseword job as a 2x2' section of brick wall had to be removed to get to
the pipe on the other side. But wait, it gets better!

I had FOUR of these goddamn pipes to mess with, each with varying degrees
of
corruption.

I'm betting everyone here has a story of the small job that turned into the
job from hell, complete with desperate searches for replacement parts,
fixing one part only to have two other parts connected to that part fail,
etc. The jobs I really hate are the ones where you think you're correcting
a problem only to find out that you've spent hours fixing something that
wasn't broke

Still, I was lucky to have discovered the issue before a catastrophic
failure.

Catastrophic failures and medical emergencies seem to occur late on a Friday
night. With houses, it isn't so bad, but weekend medical emergencies have
been proven to be more fatal on average than your typical Monday morning
stress-induced heart attack.

--
Bobby G.

"Tony Hwang" wrote in message
...


Robert Green wrote:
wrote in message
m...
wrote:

I am really not getting the connection between draining the h/w tank
or even replacing the valve stems and this break. Guess I'll find out
when I get a plumber out here.


Rare, but not unheard of:

Turning the main valve on rather quickly puts a pressure surge in the
pipes.
If a joint or section of pipe was fragile, this sudden surge could
cause a
failure.

Just jostling a section of fragile pipe can cause leaking. This
confirms my
decision to search high and low for a new cartridge for my kitchen sink
instead of replacing the whole assembly. Old plumbing is vengeful.
Bother
it enough and it will fight back. Hard.

I learned that putting a new toilet in. Everything up the line from
what I
was working on failed because the joints were old, calcified and ready
to
go. And they went. A simple toilet replacement ended up with torn up
walls, multiple trips to the plumbing supply house and visits to the
neighbors to use their toilets. I did learn that if you're going to be
applying any serious force to an old pipe to strap it down as well as
you
can to eliminate the chance of it acting as a huge lever and damaging a
joint upstream.

Same damn thing happened when the shower diverter valve failed. After
70
years stuff happens.

--
Bobby G.

Hi,
It's like being charged with man slaughter running over already dead body.

Reminds me of the law school hypothetical about the woman who shoots a
shotgun out the window and miraculously hits her husband, who had just
jumped off the15th story roof and was en route to the concrete below and
certain death. The coroner says the blast killed him and he was dead by the
time he hit the ground. Was it manslaughter or suicide?

(How does this relate to AHR? She probably shot him after he nursed one too
many leaky galvanized joints beyond their useful lifetime.)

--
Bobby G.

On Mar 26, 5:35*pm, wrote:
More questions regarding my plumbing project of yesterday. *I replaced
two valve stems in a shower/tub and had to clean out material that was
clogging what I assume are the valve seats due to low flow. *I did
this by gently disturbing the material with a small screwdriver, then
blowing it out without the stems in place.

Today I tried draining the hot water heater since the hot faucet is
the one that was clogged yesterday. *When I opened the drain to drain
the tank very little water came out so I turned the water to the
heater on to flush it out and let it run for several minutes. *Then
turned the tank's water control off and still no water drained from
it. *So I closed the drain pipe and turned the water back on to fill
the heater. *Tank had never been drained before this attempt.

Then when in the bathroom where I replaced the valve stems a couple of
hours later, I could and still can hear what sounds like water running
behind the wall. *Water flow in the tub was reduced for both hot and
cold this time, so I removed the stems and again there was this white
sediment clogging both valves. *I cleaned that out again.

The water supply valve for the house is OFF, but I am still hearing
what sounds like water running behind the shower wall. *No water
leaking from the valves or any faucet in the house. *The water shut
off valve is just outside the affected shower wall. *This bathroom is
the furthest site of water consumption from the water heater.

Could I have damaged something by running water through the hot water
heater for an extended time period? *Or could what I'm hearing be air
in the pipes? *Unfortunately, this does not sound like air. *I'm not
getting how I could be hearing water running behind the wall with the
main supply valve off.

Any ideas?

Thanks.

Plumber came to assess. Found water bubbling up out of the ground
near the shut off valve. This was not apparent the other day. He
repaired the leak and installed a new shut off and he and I could
still hear what sounds like water running behind the shower faucets,
with the main shut-off valve off and the meter continuing to spin
until turned off. The sound is louder when the shut-off valve is
open.

He was going to continue digging to see if there are more leaks in the
copper but I can do the digging for less $. He thought another leak
would be near the valve anyway. But I've exposed about twelve feet of
line and still no more leaks visible. His suggestion is to replace
the whole line with new to the meter since the copper is old anyway
and leaks may easily develop in the future, which sounds like a good
anyway.

He says there is no way water is getting past the valve and into the
house when the valve is off. Sure makes sense to me. His only other
thought is that there is a second supply line that has developed a
leak under the house. But this is a "modest" no frills house and when
the shut-off valve is off, no water comes from any faucet.

I'll update further if and when warranted.

On Mar 28, 3:32*pm, wrote:
On Mar 26, 5:35*pm, wrote:



More questions regarding my plumbing project of yesterday. *I replaced
two valve stems in a shower/tub and had to clean out material that was
clogging what I assume are the valve seats due to low flow. *I did
this by gently disturbing the material with a small screwdriver, then
blowing it out without the stems in place.

Today I tried draining the hot water heater since the hot faucet is
the one that was clogged yesterday. *When I opened the drain to drain
the tank very little water came out so I turned the water to the
heater on to flush it out and let it run for several minutes. *Then
turned the tank's water control off and still no water drained from
it. *So I closed the drain pipe and turned the water back on to fill
the heater. *Tank had never been drained before this attempt.

Then when in the bathroom where I replaced the valve stems a couple of
hours later, I could and still can hear what sounds like water running
behind the wall. *Water flow in the tub was reduced for both hot and
cold this time, so I removed the stems and again there was this white
sediment clogging both valves. *I cleaned that out again.

The water supply valve for the house is OFF, but I am still hearing
what sounds like water running behind the shower wall. *No water
leaking from the valves or any faucet in the house. *The water shut
off valve is just outside the affected shower wall. *This bathroom is
the furthest site of water consumption from the water heater.

Could I have damaged something by running water through the hot water
heater for an extended time period? *Or could what I'm hearing be air
in the pipes? *Unfortunately, this does not sound like air. *I'm not
getting how I could be hearing water running behind the wall with the
main supply valve off.

Any ideas?

Thanks.

Plumber came to assess. *Found water bubbling up out of the ground
near the shut off valve. *This was not apparent the other day. *He
repaired the leak and installed a new shut off and he and I could
still hear what sounds like water running behind the shower faucets,
with the main shut-off valve off and the meter continuing to spin
until turned off. *The sound is louder when the shut-off valve is
open.

He was going to continue digging to see if there are more leaks in the
copper but I can do the digging for less $. *He thought another leak
would be near the valve anyway. *But I've exposed about twelve feet of
line and still no more leaks visible. *His suggestion is to replace
the whole line with new to the meter since the copper is old anyway
and leaks may easily develop in the future, which sounds like a good
anyway.

He says there is no way water is getting past the valve and into the
house when the valve is off. *Sure makes sense to me. *His only other
thought is that there is a second supply line that has developed a
leak under the house. *But this is a "modest" no frills house and when
the shut-off valve is off, no water comes from any faucet.

I'll update further if and when warranted.

I found two more leaks as I continued digging, one of which was fairly
substantial. So the copper pipe was replaced with PVC. I'm not real
sure about the quality of the job the guy did, but for now the system
seems sealed with no sound emanating from behind the shower wall.
After envisioning walls getting torn apart, it's a relief knowing that
that wasn't necessary.

It turns out that the white material that I had thought was calcium
deposits clogging faucets is plastic from a disintegrating dip tube in
the water heater. Ruud/Rheem advised that there was a class action
suit addressing that in 1999, but filing closed in 2000, so no relief
there. With a heater at 16 years old it may be better to replace than
repair.

On Mar 30, 2:41*pm, wrote:
On Mar 28, 3:32*pm, wrote:





On Mar 26, 5:35*pm, wrote:

More questions regarding my plumbing project of yesterday. *I replaced
two valve stems in a shower/tub and had to clean out material that was
clogging what I assume are the valve seats due to low flow. *I did
this by gently disturbing the material with a small screwdriver, then
blowing it out without the stems in place.

Today I tried draining the hot water heater since the hot faucet is
the one that was clogged yesterday. *When I opened the drain to drain
the tank very little water came out so I turned the water to the
heater on to flush it out and let it run for several minutes. *Then
turned the tank's water control off and still no water drained from
it. *So I closed the drain pipe and turned the water back on to fill
the heater. *Tank had never been drained before this attempt.

Then when in the bathroom where I replaced the valve stems a couple of
hours later, I could and still can hear what sounds like water running
behind the wall. *Water flow in the tub was reduced for both hot and
cold this time, so I removed the stems and again there was this white
sediment clogging both valves. *I cleaned that out again.

The water supply valve for the house is OFF, but I am still hearing
what sounds like water running behind the shower wall. *No water
leaking from the valves or any faucet in the house. *The water shut
off valve is just outside the affected shower wall. *This bathroom is
the furthest site of water consumption from the water heater.

Could I have damaged something by running water through the hot water
heater for an extended time period? *Or could what I'm hearing be air
in the pipes? *Unfortunately, this does not sound like air. *I'm not
getting how I could be hearing water running behind the wall with the
main supply valve off.

Any ideas?

Thanks.

Plumber came to assess. *Found water bubbling up out of the ground
near the shut off valve. *This was not apparent the other day. *He
repaired the leak and installed a new shut off and he and I could
still hear what sounds like water running behind the shower faucets,
with the main shut-off valve off and the meter continuing to spin
until turned off. *The sound is louder when the shut-off valve is
open.

He was going to continue digging to see if there are more leaks in the
copper but I can do the digging for less $. *He thought another leak
would be near the valve anyway. *But I've exposed about twelve feet of
line and still no more leaks visible. *His suggestion is to replace
the whole line with new to the meter since the copper is old anyway
and leaks may easily develop in the future, which sounds like a good
anyway.

He says there is no way water is getting past the valve and into the
house when the valve is off. *Sure makes sense to me. *His only other
thought is that there is a second supply line that has developed a
leak under the house. *But this is a "modest" no frills house and when
the shut-off valve is off, no water comes from any faucet.

I'll update further if and when warranted.

I found two more leaks as I continued digging, one of which was fairly
substantial. *So the copper pipe was replaced with PVC. *I'm not real
sure about the quality of the job the guy did, but for now the system
seems sealed with no sound emanating from behind the shower wall.
After envisioning walls getting torn apart, it's a relief knowing that
that wasn't necessary.

It turns out that the white material that I had thought was calcium
deposits clogging faucets is plastic from a disintegrating dip tube in
the water heater. *Ruud/Rheem advised that there was a class action
suit addressing that in 1999, but filing closed in 2000, so no relief
there. *With a heater at 16 years old it may be better to replace than
repair.

- have you ever seen the anode in your water heater?
- have you been flushing the sediment out of it every year?

if you can't answer "yes" to both of those questions, I would be
tempted to err on the side of caution and replace it.

Additionally, before you fill the new water heater, I would replace
the drain valve with a ball valve as shown he

http://waterheaterrescue.com/pages/W...-Assembly.html

you can piece the same thing together from your local hardware store,
it's just a dielectric nipple, a 3/4" ball valve, a 3/4" MPT to garden
hose adapter, and a brass garden hose cap. Makes flushing every year
so much easier, but you do need to be sure to keep the cap on there
because otherwise if you accidentally kick the ball valve you'll get a
jet of hot water (likely with some lovely sediment) all over your
shoes and your laundry room floor.

I was annoyed when SWMBO had a plumber replace the water heater in our
basement and they didn't transfer over the drain valve (per above)
that I'd installed on the old WH when it failed the very first time I
flushed it oh well, it'll be someone else's problem soon
(hopefully.)

nate

On Mar 30, 2:41*pm, wrote:
On Mar 28, 3:32*pm, wrote:





On Mar 26, 5:35*pm, wrote:

More questions regarding my plumbing project of yesterday. *I replaced
two valve stems in a shower/tub and had to clean out material that was
clogging what I assume are the valve seats due to low flow. *I did
this by gently disturbing the material with a small screwdriver, then
blowing it out without the stems in place.

Today I tried draining the hot water heater since the hot faucet is
the one that was clogged yesterday. *When I opened the drain to drain
the tank very little water came out so I turned the water to the
heater on to flush it out and let it run for several minutes. *Then
turned the tank's water control off and still no water drained from
it. *So I closed the drain pipe and turned the water back on to fill
the heater. *Tank had never been drained before this attempt.

Then when in the bathroom where I replaced the valve stems a couple of
hours later, I could and still can hear what sounds like water running
behind the wall. *Water flow in the tub was reduced for both hot and
cold this time, so I removed the stems and again there was this white
sediment clogging both valves. *I cleaned that out again.

The water supply valve for the house is OFF, but I am still hearing
what sounds like water running behind the shower wall. *No water
leaking from the valves or any faucet in the house. *The water shut
off valve is just outside the affected shower wall. *This bathroom is
the furthest site of water consumption from the water heater.

Could I have damaged something by running water through the hot water
heater for an extended time period? *Or could what I'm hearing be air
in the pipes? *Unfortunately, this does not sound like air. *I'm not
getting how I could be hearing water running behind the wall with the
main supply valve off.

Any ideas?

Thanks.

Plumber came to assess. *Found water bubbling up out of the ground
near the shut off valve. *This was not apparent the other day. *He
repaired the leak and installed a new shut off and he and I could
still hear what sounds like water running behind the shower faucets,
with the main shut-off valve off and the meter continuing to spin
until turned off. *The sound is louder when the shut-off valve is
open.

He was going to continue digging to see if there are more leaks in the
copper but I can do the digging for less $. *He thought another leak
would be near the valve anyway. *But I've exposed about twelve feet of
line and still no more leaks visible. *His suggestion is to replace
the whole line with new to the meter since the copper is old anyway
and leaks may easily develop in the future, which sounds like a good
anyway.

He says there is no way water is getting past the valve and into the
house when the valve is off. *Sure makes sense to me. *His only other
thought is that there is a second supply line that has developed a
leak under the house. *But this is a "modest" no frills house and when
the shut-off valve is off, no water comes from any faucet.

I'll update further if and when warranted.

I found two more leaks as I continued digging, one of which was fairly
substantial. *So the copper pipe was replaced with PVC. *I'm not real
sure about the quality of the job the guy did, but for now the system
seems sealed with no sound emanating from behind the shower wall.
After envisioning walls getting torn apart, it's a relief knowing that
that wasn't necessary.

It turns out that the white material that I had thought was calcium
deposits clogging faucets is plastic from a disintegrating dip tube in
the water heater. *Ruud/Rheem advised that there was a class action
suit addressing that in 1999, but filing closed in 2000, so no relief
there. *With a heater at 16 years old it may be better to replace than
repair.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Probably a good idea. It seems in about half the cases you don't have
enough head room to install a new dip tub and have to remove the thing
anyway. If you are removing a 16 year old hw heater then you might as
well put in a new one.