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#1
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What happens with an incorrectly wired GFCI
Just a li'l anecdote for those who've always wondered what happens if
you wire a GFCI to protect "downstream" outlets wrong (all 2 of you)--that is, if you mix up the "line" and "load" wires. The answer? Nothing. Installed a GFCI in a client's kitchen, thinking I'd need two, one for each outlet on a sink counter. It became clear, though, that they were in a chain, so I could protect both with just one GFCI. So I wired in the GFCI, wiring the downstream outlet on the "load" side, ass-u-ming that the position of the cables in the box indicated the upstream and downstream wiring respectively. Wrong. When I turned on the power, the GFCI's LED lit, but I couldn't reset the outlet, and both outlets were dead. Whoops. So I swapped the two sets of wires, repowered it, reset the GFCI and bingo! everything worked fine. The moral of the story is, you won't damage a GFCI by making this mistake (but you'd better correct it if you want the devices to work correctly). -- The phrase "jump the shark" itself jumped the shark about a decade ago. - Usenet |
#2
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What happens with an incorrectly wired GFCI
On Sat, 12 Mar 2011 13:52:58 -0800, David Nebenzahl
wrote: Just a li'l anecdote for those who've always wondered what happens if you wire a GFCI to protect "downstream" outlets wrong (all 2 of you)--that is, if you mix up the "line" and "load" wires. The answer? Nothing. Installed a GFCI in a client's kitchen, thinking I'd need two, one for each outlet on a sink counter. It became clear, though, that they were in a chain, so I could protect both with just one GFCI. So I wired in the GFCI, wiring the downstream outlet on the "load" side, ass-u-ming that the position of the cables in the box indicated the upstream and downstream wiring respectively. Wrong. When I turned on the power, the GFCI's LED lit, but I couldn't reset the outlet, and both outlets were dead. Strange, when I made the same mistake the outlets worked normally but wouldn't trip on a "downstream" fault. The differential current sensing was on the wrong side of the device, so didn't detect the fault. I can't see how they'd fail the way you suggest. Whoops. So I swapped the two sets of wires, repowered it, reset the GFCI and bingo! everything worked fine. The moral of the story is, you won't damage a GFCI by making this mistake (but you'd better correct it if you want the devices to work correctly). |
#3
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What happens with an incorrectly wired GFCI
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#4
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What happens with an incorrectly wired GFCI
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#6
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What happens with an incorrectly wired GFCI
On Sat, 12 Mar 2011 16:36:36 -0700, Tony Hwang wrote:
Dan Lanciani wrote: In , zzzzzzzzzz ) writes: | On Sat, 12 Mar 2011 13:52:58 -0800, David | wrote: | |Just a li'l anecdote for those who've always wondered what happens if |you wire a GFCI to protect "downstream" outlets wrong (all 2 of |you)--that is, if you mix up the "line" and "load" wires. | |The answer? Nothing. | |Installed a GFCI in a client's kitchen, thinking I'd need two, one for |each outlet on a sink counter. It became clear, though, that they were |in a chain, so I could protect both with just one GFCI. So I wired in |the GFCI, wiring the downstream outlet on the "load" side, ass-u-ming |that the position of the cables in the box indicated the upstream and |downstream wiring respectively. | |Wrong. | |When I turned on the power, the GFCI's LED lit, but I couldn't reset the |outlet, and both outlets were dead. | | Strange, when I made the same mistake the outlets worked normally but wouldn't | trip on a "downstream" fault. The differential current sensing was on the | wrong side of the device, so didn't detect the fault. I can't see how they'd | fail the way you suggest. Newer GFCIs are specifically designed to be idiot-proof in this respect. They aren't failing; they are just helping you. Although older GFCIs would not be damaged by the incorrect wiring, they wouldn't be able to shut off the power to the local outlet even if they trip. But how does that work? How does the GFCI know which side is line and load? Dan Lanciani ddl@danlan.*com Hi, Does that mean OP was an idiot? No, he got proofed immediately. I had to wait for an inspector (selling the house) to get proofed. ;-) |
#7
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What happens with an incorrectly wired GFCI
MR. NEBUCADNEZAR YOU ARE ODD AT THE LEAST.
MR HAUWG IS A PIG BUT ONLY A CARELESS IDIOT WOULD WIRE A GFCI INCORRECTLY I HAVE COLLECTED TENS SOULS OVER THE PAST FEW YEARS BECAUSE OF SUCH MISTAKES. PAT ECUM |
#8
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What happens with an incorrectly wired GFCI
In article , zzzzzzzzzz ) writes:
| On Sat, 12 Mar 2011 16:36:36 -0700, Tony Hwang wrote: | | | | Dan Lanciani wrote: | In , zzzzzzzzzz ) writes: | | On Sat, 12 Mar 2011 13:52:58 -0800, David | | wrote: | | | |Just a li'l anecdote for those who've always wondered what happens if | |you wire a GFCI to protect "downstream" outlets wrong (all 2 of | |you)--that is, if you mix up the "line" and "load" wires. | | | |The answer? Nothing. | | | |Installed a GFCI in a client's kitchen, thinking I'd need two, one for | |each outlet on a sink counter. It became clear, though, that they were | |in a chain, so I could protect both with just one GFCI. So I wired in | |the GFCI, wiring the downstream outlet on the "load" side, ass-u-ming | |that the position of the cables in the box indicated the upstream and | |downstream wiring respectively. | | | |Wrong. | | | |When I turned on the power, the GFCI's LED lit, but I couldn't reset the | |outlet, and both outlets were dead. | | | | Strange, when I made the same mistake the outlets worked normally but wouldn't | | trip on a "downstream" fault. The differential current sensing was on the | | wrong side of the device, so didn't detect the fault. I can't see how they'd | | fail the way you suggest. | | Newer GFCIs are specifically designed to be idiot-proof in this respect. | They aren't failing; they are just helping you. Although older GFCIs | would not be damaged by the incorrect wiring, they wouldn't be able to | shut off the power to the local outlet even if they trip. | | But how does that work? How does the GFCI know which side is line and load? I don't know if they all work the same way, but the ones I have looked at are pretty simple. They start in the tripped state. The reset button is no longer a simple mechanical device; it is interlocked such that the device cannot be reset unless there is power on the line side. You can probably defeat the protection by installing correctly (or on a bench), pushing reset, installing incorrectly, and then never pushing the test button. But who would do that? Dan Lanciani ddl@danlan.*com |
#9
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What happens with an incorrectly wired GFCI
On 3/12/2011 7:57 PM, Dan Lanciani wrote:
In , zzzzzzzzzz ) writes: | On Sat, 12 Mar 2011 16:36:36 -0700, Tony wrote: | | | |Dan Lanciani wrote: | In , zzzzzzzzzz ) writes: | | On Sat, 12 Mar 2011 13:52:58 -0800, David | | wrote: | | | |Just a li'l anecdote for those who've always wondered what happens if | |you wire a GFCI to protect "downstream" outlets wrong (all 2 of | |you)--that is, if you mix up the "line" and "load" wires. | | | |The answer? Nothing. | | | |Installed a GFCI in a client's kitchen, thinking I'd need two, one for | |each outlet on a sink counter. It became clear, though, that they were | |in a chain, so I could protect both with just one GFCI. So I wired in | |the GFCI, wiring the downstream outlet on the "load" side, ass-u-ming | |that the position of the cables in the box indicated the upstream and | |downstream wiring respectively. | | | |Wrong. | | | |When I turned on the power, the GFCI's LED lit, but I couldn't reset the | |outlet, and both outlets were dead. | | | | Strange, when I made the same mistake the outlets worked normally but wouldn't | | trip on a "downstream" fault. The differential current sensing was on the | | wrong side of the device, so didn't detect the fault. I can't see how they'd | | fail the way you suggest. | | Newer GFCIs are specifically designed to be idiot-proof in this respect. | They aren't failing; they are just helping you. Although older GFCIs | would not be damaged by the incorrect wiring, they wouldn't be able to | shut off the power to the local outlet even if they trip. | | But how does that work? How does the GFCI know which side is line and load? I don't know if they all work the same way, but the ones I have looked at are pretty simple. They start in the tripped state. The reset button is no longer a simple mechanical device; it is interlocked such that the device cannot be reset unless there is power on the line side. You can probably defeat the protection by installing correctly (or on a bench), pushing reset, installing incorrectly, and then never pushing the test button. But who would do that? Dan, did you see my post titled: "OT, Do You Know Anyone Like This"? ^_^ TDD |
#10
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What happens with an incorrectly wired GFCI
On 13 Mar 2011 01:57:15 GMT, ddl@danlan.*com (Dan Lanciani) wrote:
In article , zzzzzzzzzz ) writes: | On Sat, 12 Mar 2011 16:36:36 -0700, Tony Hwang wrote: | | | | Dan Lanciani wrote: | In , zzzzzzzzzz ) writes: | | On Sat, 12 Mar 2011 13:52:58 -0800, David | | wrote: | | | |Just a li'l anecdote for those who've always wondered what happens if | |you wire a GFCI to protect "downstream" outlets wrong (all 2 of | |you)--that is, if you mix up the "line" and "load" wires. | | | |The answer? Nothing. | | | |Installed a GFCI in a client's kitchen, thinking I'd need two, one for | |each outlet on a sink counter. It became clear, though, that they were | |in a chain, so I could protect both with just one GFCI. So I wired in | |the GFCI, wiring the downstream outlet on the "load" side, ass-u-ming | |that the position of the cables in the box indicated the upstream and | |downstream wiring respectively. | | | |Wrong. | | | |When I turned on the power, the GFCI's LED lit, but I couldn't reset the | |outlet, and both outlets were dead. | | | | Strange, when I made the same mistake the outlets worked normally but wouldn't | | trip on a "downstream" fault. The differential current sensing was on the | | wrong side of the device, so didn't detect the fault. I can't see how they'd | | fail the way you suggest. | | Newer GFCIs are specifically designed to be idiot-proof in this respect. | They aren't failing; they are just helping you. Although older GFCIs | would not be damaged by the incorrect wiring, they wouldn't be able to | shut off the power to the local outlet even if they trip. | | But how does that work? How does the GFCI know which side is line and load? I don't know if they all work the same way, but the ones I have looked at are pretty simple. They start in the tripped state. The reset button is no longer a simple mechanical device; it is interlocked such that the device cannot be reset unless there is power on the line side. You can probably defeat the protection by installing correctly (or on a bench), pushing reset, installing incorrectly, and then never pushing the test button. But who would do that? That works. Ingenious, even. Thanks. |
#11
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What happens with an incorrectly wired GFCI
Dan Lanciani wrote:
In article , zzzzzzzzzz ) writes: | On Sat, 12 Mar 2011 13:52:58 -0800, David Nebenzahl | wrote: | | Just a li'l anecdote for those who've always wondered what happens if | you wire a GFCI to protect "downstream" outlets wrong (all 2 of | you)--that is, if you mix up the "line" and "load" wires. | | The answer? Nothing. | | Installed a GFCI in a client's kitchen, thinking I'd need two, one for | each outlet on a sink counter. It became clear, though, that they were | in a chain, so I could protect both with just one GFCI. So I wired in | the GFCI, wiring the downstream outlet on the "load" side, ass-u-ming | that the position of the cables in the box indicated the upstream and | downstream wiring respectively. | | Wrong. | | When I turned on the power, the GFCI's LED lit, but I couldn't reset the | outlet, and both outlets were dead. | | Strange, when I made the same mistake the outlets worked normally but wouldn't | trip on a "downstream" fault. The differential current sensing was on the | wrong side of the device, so didn't detect the fault. I can't see how they'd | fail the way you suggest. Newer GFCIs are specifically designed to be idiot-proof in this respect. They aren't failing; they are just helping you. Although older GFCIs would not be damaged by the incorrect wiring, they wouldn't be able to shut off the power to the local outlet even if they trip. Dan Lanciani ddl@danlan.*com I agree. Older GFCIs had the load terminals connected to the receptacle. If connected line-load reversed the receptacle was always powered and a ground fault on the receptacle would not trip the GFCI. The test button would trip the GFCI but the outlet was still hot. Anything connected downstream would be protected as intended. Instructions are likely to say to connect a lamp and push the test button - make sure the lamp goes out. A while ago the UL standards changed. Now if a GFCI trips, the receptacle is not connected to the line or load terminals. The internal electronics are probably connected to the receptacle. If these GFCI receptacles are "set" and installed with line-load reversed they shouldn't detect a ground fault on the receptacle. Downstream protects as intended. If you push the test button the GFCI trips and can not be reset. They are intentionally shipped in the tripped condition, so if a new GFCI is installed line-load reversed it can not be reset. -- bud-- |
#12
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What happens with an incorrectly wired GFCI
Thanks for the info. I had a GFCI that worked but the reset was popped out and wouldn't stay in. The three sockets downstream didn't work. Sure enough to the load and line were switched. I switched them back and everything works! Glad it was such a simple fix.
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#13
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What happens with an incorrectly wired GFCI
replying to krw, Dante wrote:
Fried my inverter wiring the line into the load -- for full context, visit https://www.homeownershub.com/mainte...ci-625128-.htm |
#14
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What happens with an incorrectly wired GFCI
On Wed, 02 May 2018 01:44:03 GMT, Dante
m wrote: replying to krw, Dante wrote: Fried my inverter wiring the line into the load How did you have it wired to do that? |
#15
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What happens with an incorrectly wired GFCI
On Tuesday, May 1, 2018 at 11:20:38 PM UTC-5, wrote:
On Wed, 02 May 2018 01:44:03 GMT, Dante m wrote: replying to krw, Dante wrote: Fried my inverter wiring the line into the load How did you have it wired to do that? Humans are very resourceful. If there is a way to break something, a human can discover how. ^_^ [8~{} Uncle Amused Monster |
#16
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What happens with an incorrectly wired GFCI
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