Just a li'l anecdote for those who've always wondered what happens if
you wire a GFCI to protect "downstream" outlets wrong (all 2 of
you)--that is, if you mix up the "line" and "load" wires.

The answer? Nothing.

Installed a GFCI in a client's kitchen, thinking I'd need two, one for
each outlet on a sink counter. It became clear, though, that they were
in a chain, so I could protect both with just one GFCI. So I wired in
the GFCI, wiring the downstream outlet on the "load" side, ass-u-ming
that the position of the cables in the box indicated the upstream and
downstream wiring respectively.

Wrong.

When I turned on the power, the GFCI's LED lit, but I couldn't reset the
outlet, and both outlets were dead.

Whoops.

So I swapped the two sets of wires, repowered it, reset the GFCI and
bingo! everything worked fine.

The moral of the story is, you won't damage a GFCI by making this
mistake (but you'd better correct it if you want the devices to work
correctly).


--
The phrase "jump the shark" itself jumped the shark about a decade ago.

- Usenet

On Sat, 12 Mar 2011 13:52:58 -0800, David Nebenzahl
wrote:

Just a li'l anecdote for those who've always wondered what happens if
you wire a GFCI to protect "downstream" outlets wrong (all 2 of
you)--that is, if you mix up the "line" and "load" wires.

The answer? Nothing.

Installed a GFCI in a client's kitchen, thinking I'd need two, one for
each outlet on a sink counter. It became clear, though, that they were
in a chain, so I could protect both with just one GFCI. So I wired in
the GFCI, wiring the downstream outlet on the "load" side, ass-u-ming
that the position of the cables in the box indicated the upstream and
downstream wiring respectively.

Wrong.

When I turned on the power, the GFCI's LED lit, but I couldn't reset the
outlet, and both outlets were dead.

Strange, when I made the same mistake the outlets worked normally but wouldn't
trip on a "downstream" fault. The differential current sensing was on the
wrong side of the device, so didn't detect the fault. I can't see how they'd
fail the way you suggest.

Whoops.

So I swapped the two sets of wires, repowered it, reset the GFCI and
bingo! everything worked fine.

The moral of the story is, you won't damage a GFCI by making this
mistake (but you'd better correct it if you want the devices to work
correctly).

In article , zzzzzzzzzz ) writes:
| On Sat, 12 Mar 2011 13:52:58 -0800, David Nebenzahl
| wrote:
|
| Just a li'l anecdote for those who've always wondered what happens if
| you wire a GFCI to protect "downstream" outlets wrong (all 2 of
| you)--that is, if you mix up the "line" and "load" wires.
|
| The answer? Nothing.
|
| Installed a GFCI in a client's kitchen, thinking I'd need two, one for
| each outlet on a sink counter. It became clear, though, that they were
| in a chain, so I could protect both with just one GFCI. So I wired in
| the GFCI, wiring the downstream outlet on the "load" side, ass-u-ming
| that the position of the cables in the box indicated the upstream and
| downstream wiring respectively.
|
| Wrong.
|
| When I turned on the power, the GFCI's LED lit, but I couldn't reset the
| outlet, and both outlets were dead.
|
| Strange, when I made the same mistake the outlets worked normally but wouldn't
| trip on a "downstream" fault. The differential current sensing was on the
| wrong side of the device, so didn't detect the fault. I can't see how they'd
| fail the way you suggest.

Newer GFCIs are specifically designed to be idiot-proof in this respect.
They aren't failing; they are just helping you. Although older GFCIs
would not be damaged by the incorrect wiring, they wouldn't be able to
shut off the power to the local outlet even if they trip.

Dan Lanciani
ddl@danlan.*com

Dan Lanciani wrote:
In , zzzzzzzzzz ) writes:
| On Sat, 12 Mar 2011 13:52:58 -0800, David
| wrote:
|
|Just a li'l anecdote for those who've always wondered what happens if
|you wire a GFCI to protect "downstream" outlets wrong (all 2 of
|you)--that is, if you mix up the "line" and "load" wires.
|
|The answer? Nothing.
|
|Installed a GFCI in a client's kitchen, thinking I'd need two, one for
|each outlet on a sink counter. It became clear, though, that they were
|in a chain, so I could protect both with just one GFCI. So I wired in
|the GFCI, wiring the downstream outlet on the "load" side, ass-u-ming
|that the position of the cables in the box indicated the upstream and
|downstream wiring respectively.
|
|Wrong.
|
|When I turned on the power, the GFCI's LED lit, but I couldn't reset the
|outlet, and both outlets were dead.
|
| Strange, when I made the same mistake the outlets worked normally but wouldn't
| trip on a "downstream" fault. The differential current sensing was on the
| wrong side of the device, so didn't detect the fault. I can't see how they'd
| fail the way you suggest.

Newer GFCIs are specifically designed to be idiot-proof in this respect.
They aren't failing; they are just helping you. Although older GFCIs
would not be damaged by the incorrect wiring, they wouldn't be able to
shut off the power to the local outlet even if they trip.

Dan Lanciani
ddl@danlan.*com
Hi,
Does that mean OP was an idiot?

On 3/12/2011 3:36 PM Tony Hwang spake thus:

Dan Lanciani wrote:

In ,
zzzzzzzzzz ) writes:

On Sat, 12 Mar 2011 13:52:58 -0800, David
wrote:

Just a li'l anecdote for those who've always wondered what
happens if you wire a GFCI to protect "downstream" outlets
wrong (all 2 of you)--that is, if you mix up the "line" and
"load" wires.

The answer? Nothing.

Installed a GFCI in a client's kitchen, thinking I'd need two,
one for each outlet on a sink counter. It became clear, though,
that they were in a chain, so I could protect both with just
one GFCI. So I wired in the GFCI, wiring the downstream outlet
on the "load" side, ass-u-ming that the position of the cables
in the box indicated the upstream and downstream wiring
respectively.

Wrong.

When I turned on the power, the GFCI's LED lit, but I couldn't
reset the outlet, and both outlets were dead.

Strange, when I made the same mistake the outlets worked normally
but wouldn't trip on a "downstream" fault. The differential
current sensing was on the wrong side of the device, so didn't
detect the fault. I can't see how they'd fail the way you
suggest.

Newer GFCIs are specifically designed to be idiot-proof in this
respect. They aren't failing; they are just helping you.
Although older GFCIs would not be damaged by the incorrect wiring,
they wouldn't be able to shut off the power to the local outlet
even if they trip.

Hi,
Does that mean OP was an idiot?

No, it means I *made a mistake* and was "helped" by the GFCI not being
damaged by it.

Are you an idiot? Sometimes you sound like one ...


--
The phrase "jump the shark" itself jumped the shark about a decade ago.

- Usenet

On Sat, 12 Mar 2011 16:36:36 -0700, Tony Hwang wrote:



Dan Lanciani wrote:
In , zzzzzzzzzz ) writes:
| On Sat, 12 Mar 2011 13:52:58 -0800, David
| wrote:
|
|Just a li'l anecdote for those who've always wondered what happens if
|you wire a GFCI to protect "downstream" outlets wrong (all 2 of
|you)--that is, if you mix up the "line" and "load" wires.
|
|The answer? Nothing.
|
|Installed a GFCI in a client's kitchen, thinking I'd need two, one for
|each outlet on a sink counter. It became clear, though, that they were
|in a chain, so I could protect both with just one GFCI. So I wired in
|the GFCI, wiring the downstream outlet on the "load" side, ass-u-ming
|that the position of the cables in the box indicated the upstream and
|downstream wiring respectively.
|
|Wrong.
|
|When I turned on the power, the GFCI's LED lit, but I couldn't reset the
|outlet, and both outlets were dead.
|
| Strange, when I made the same mistake the outlets worked normally but wouldn't
| trip on a "downstream" fault. The differential current sensing was on the
| wrong side of the device, so didn't detect the fault. I can't see how they'd
| fail the way you suggest.

Newer GFCIs are specifically designed to be idiot-proof in this respect.
They aren't failing; they are just helping you. Although older GFCIs
would not be damaged by the incorrect wiring, they wouldn't be able to
shut off the power to the local outlet even if they trip.

But how does that work? How does the GFCI know which side is line and load?

Dan Lanciani
ddl@danlan.*com
Hi,
Does that mean OP was an idiot?

No, he got proofed immediately. I had to wait for an inspector (selling the
house) to get proofed. ;-)

MR. NEBUCADNEZAR YOU ARE ODD AT THE LEAST.
MR HAUWG IS A PIG BUT ONLY A CARELESS IDIOT WOULD WIRE A GFCI
INCORRECTLY
I HAVE COLLECTED TENS SOULS OVER THE PAST FEW YEARS BECAUSE OF SUCH
MISTAKES.

PAT ECUM

In article , zzzzzzzzzz ) writes:
| On Sat, 12 Mar 2011 16:36:36 -0700, Tony Hwang wrote:
|
|
|
| Dan Lanciani wrote:
| In , zzzzzzzzzz ) writes:
| | On Sat, 12 Mar 2011 13:52:58 -0800, David
| | wrote:
| |
| |Just a li'l anecdote for those who've always wondered what happens if
| |you wire a GFCI to protect "downstream" outlets wrong (all 2 of
| |you)--that is, if you mix up the "line" and "load" wires.
| |
| |The answer? Nothing.
| |
| |Installed a GFCI in a client's kitchen, thinking I'd need two, one for
| |each outlet on a sink counter. It became clear, though, that they were
| |in a chain, so I could protect both with just one GFCI. So I wired in
| |the GFCI, wiring the downstream outlet on the "load" side, ass-u-ming
| |that the position of the cables in the box indicated the upstream and
| |downstream wiring respectively.
| |
| |Wrong.
| |
| |When I turned on the power, the GFCI's LED lit, but I couldn't reset the
| |outlet, and both outlets were dead.
| |
| | Strange, when I made the same mistake the outlets worked normally but wouldn't
| | trip on a "downstream" fault. The differential current sensing was on the
| | wrong side of the device, so didn't detect the fault. I can't see how they'd
| | fail the way you suggest.
|
| Newer GFCIs are specifically designed to be idiot-proof in this respect.
| They aren't failing; they are just helping you. Although older GFCIs
| would not be damaged by the incorrect wiring, they wouldn't be able to
| shut off the power to the local outlet even if they trip.
|
| But how does that work? How does the GFCI know which side is line and load?

I don't know if they all work the same way, but the ones I have looked at
are pretty simple. They start in the tripped state. The reset button is
no longer a simple mechanical device; it is interlocked such that the device
cannot be reset unless there is power on the line side. You can probably
defeat the protection by installing correctly (or on a bench), pushing reset,
installing incorrectly, and then never pushing the test button. But who
would do that?

Dan Lanciani
ddl@danlan.*com

On 3/12/2011 7:57 PM, Dan Lanciani wrote:
In , zzzzzzzzzz ) writes:
| On Sat, 12 Mar 2011 16:36:36 -0700, Tony wrote:
|
|
|
|Dan Lanciani wrote:
| In , zzzzzzzzzz ) writes:
| | On Sat, 12 Mar 2011 13:52:58 -0800, David
| | wrote:
| |
| |Just a li'l anecdote for those who've always wondered what happens if
| |you wire a GFCI to protect "downstream" outlets wrong (all 2 of
| |you)--that is, if you mix up the "line" and "load" wires.
| |
| |The answer? Nothing.
| |
| |Installed a GFCI in a client's kitchen, thinking I'd need two, one for
| |each outlet on a sink counter. It became clear, though, that they were
| |in a chain, so I could protect both with just one GFCI. So I wired in
| |the GFCI, wiring the downstream outlet on the "load" side, ass-u-ming
| |that the position of the cables in the box indicated the upstream and
| |downstream wiring respectively.
| |
| |Wrong.
| |
| |When I turned on the power, the GFCI's LED lit, but I couldn't reset the
| |outlet, and both outlets were dead.
| |
| | Strange, when I made the same mistake the outlets worked normally but wouldn't
| | trip on a "downstream" fault. The differential current sensing was on the
| | wrong side of the device, so didn't detect the fault. I can't see how they'd
| | fail the way you suggest.
|
| Newer GFCIs are specifically designed to be idiot-proof in this respect.
| They aren't failing; they are just helping you. Although older GFCIs
| would not be damaged by the incorrect wiring, they wouldn't be able to
| shut off the power to the local outlet even if they trip.
|
| But how does that work? How does the GFCI know which side is line and load?

I don't know if they all work the same way, but the ones I have looked at
are pretty simple. They start in the tripped state. The reset button is
no longer a simple mechanical device; it is interlocked such that the device
cannot be reset unless there is power on the line side. You can probably
defeat the protection by installing correctly (or on a bench), pushing reset,
installing incorrectly, and then never pushing the test button. But who
would do that?


Dan, did you see my post titled: "OT, Do You Know Anyone Like This"? ^_^

TDD

On 13 Mar 2011 01:57:15 GMT, ddl@danlan.*com (Dan Lanciani) wrote:

In article , zzzzzzzzzz ) writes:
| On Sat, 12 Mar 2011 16:36:36 -0700, Tony Hwang wrote:
|
|
|
| Dan Lanciani wrote:
| In , zzzzzzzzzz ) writes:
| | On Sat, 12 Mar 2011 13:52:58 -0800, David
| | wrote:
| |
| |Just a li'l anecdote for those who've always wondered what happens if
| |you wire a GFCI to protect "downstream" outlets wrong (all 2 of
| |you)--that is, if you mix up the "line" and "load" wires.
| |
| |The answer? Nothing.
| |
| |Installed a GFCI in a client's kitchen, thinking I'd need two, one for
| |each outlet on a sink counter. It became clear, though, that they were
| |in a chain, so I could protect both with just one GFCI. So I wired in
| |the GFCI, wiring the downstream outlet on the "load" side, ass-u-ming
| |that the position of the cables in the box indicated the upstream and
| |downstream wiring respectively.
| |
| |Wrong.
| |
| |When I turned on the power, the GFCI's LED lit, but I couldn't reset the
| |outlet, and both outlets were dead.
| |
| | Strange, when I made the same mistake the outlets worked normally but wouldn't
| | trip on a "downstream" fault. The differential current sensing was on the
| | wrong side of the device, so didn't detect the fault. I can't see how they'd
| | fail the way you suggest.
|
| Newer GFCIs are specifically designed to be idiot-proof in this respect.
| They aren't failing; they are just helping you. Although older GFCIs
| would not be damaged by the incorrect wiring, they wouldn't be able to
| shut off the power to the local outlet even if they trip.
|
| But how does that work? How does the GFCI know which side is line and load?

I don't know if they all work the same way, but the ones I have looked at
are pretty simple. They start in the tripped state. The reset button is
no longer a simple mechanical device; it is interlocked such that the device
cannot be reset unless there is power on the line side. You can probably
defeat the protection by installing correctly (or on a bench), pushing reset,
installing incorrectly, and then never pushing the test button. But who
would do that?

That works. Ingenious, even. Thanks.

Dan Lanciani wrote:
In article , zzzzzzzzzz ) writes:
| On Sat, 12 Mar 2011 13:52:58 -0800, David Nebenzahl
| wrote:
|
| Just a li'l anecdote for those who've always wondered what happens if
| you wire a GFCI to protect "downstream" outlets wrong (all 2 of
| you)--that is, if you mix up the "line" and "load" wires.
|
| The answer? Nothing.
|
| Installed a GFCI in a client's kitchen, thinking I'd need two, one for
| each outlet on a sink counter. It became clear, though, that they were
| in a chain, so I could protect both with just one GFCI. So I wired in
| the GFCI, wiring the downstream outlet on the "load" side, ass-u-ming
| that the position of the cables in the box indicated the upstream and
| downstream wiring respectively.
|
| Wrong.
|
| When I turned on the power, the GFCI's LED lit, but I couldn't reset the
| outlet, and both outlets were dead.
|
| Strange, when I made the same mistake the outlets worked normally but wouldn't
| trip on a "downstream" fault. The differential current sensing was on the
| wrong side of the device, so didn't detect the fault. I can't see how they'd
| fail the way you suggest.

Newer GFCIs are specifically designed to be idiot-proof in this respect.
They aren't failing; they are just helping you. Although older GFCIs
would not be damaged by the incorrect wiring, they wouldn't be able to
shut off the power to the local outlet even if they trip.

Dan Lanciani
ddl@danlan.*com

I agree.

Older GFCIs had the load terminals connected to the receptacle. If
connected line-load reversed the receptacle was always powered and a
ground fault on the receptacle would not trip the GFCI. The test button
would trip the GFCI but the outlet was still hot. Anything connected
downstream would be protected as intended. Instructions are likely to
say to connect a lamp and push the test button - make sure the lamp goes
out.

A while ago the UL standards changed. Now if a GFCI trips, the
receptacle is not connected to the line or load terminals. The internal
electronics are probably connected to the receptacle. If these GFCI
receptacles are "set" and installed with line-load reversed they
shouldn't detect a ground fault on the receptacle. Downstream protects
as intended. If you push the test button the GFCI trips and can not be
reset. They are intentionally shipped in the tripped condition, so if a
new GFCI is installed line-load reversed it can not be reset.

--
bud--

Thanks for the info. I had a GFCI that worked but the reset was popped out and wouldn't stay in. The three sockets downstream didn't work. Sure enough to the load and line were switched. I switched them back and everything works! Glad it was such a simple fix.

replying to krw, Dante wrote:
Fried my inverter wiring the line into the load

--
for full context, visit https://www.homeownershub.com/mainte...ci-625128-.htm

On Wed, 02 May 2018 01:44:03 GMT, Dante
m wrote:

replying to krw, Dante wrote:
Fried my inverter wiring the line into the load

How did you have it wired to do that?

On Tuesday, May 1, 2018 at 11:20:38 PM UTC-5, wrote:
On Wed, 02 May 2018 01:44:03 GMT, Dante
m wrote:

replying to krw, Dante wrote:
Fried my inverter wiring the line into the load

How did you have it wired to do that?

Humans are very resourceful. If there is a way to break something, a human can discover how. ^_^

[8~{} Uncle Amused Monster

On Wed, 02 May 2018 00:20:14 -0400, wrote:

On Wed, 02 May 2018 01:44:03 GMT, Dante
m wrote:

replying to krw, Dante wrote:
Fried my inverter wiring the line into the load

How did you have it wired to do that?

Yeah. I'd like to see a circuit diagram. I can imagine an inverter, like a
120 V outlet in the dash of my car powered by the alternator. I can imagine
that someone wants to be safe in case someone takes a shower of some sort
inside the car, so he installs a GFCI-protected outlet. After that, my mind
sort of comes up blank.