This is regarding a possible rehab of another property that I own. It's an
older home with wood lath and plaster wall. I am considering tearing out
the lath and plaster down to the studs, then having it rewired throughout,
then having the ceilings and walls sheetrocked. I would rather not
sheetrock over the existing lath and plaster.

My question is about how contractors typically go about doing the sheetrock
over the old ceiling joists and wall studs. How do they deal with the fact
that after the demo of the original lath and plaster, the ceiling joists and
studs are often uneven -- that is, not "planed".

Do they usually just do the new sheetrock by going with what they have and
just shimming the areas that need to be shimmed to end up with a flat,
"planed", and even new sheetrock wall? Is there some other way that this is
usually done?

RogerT wrote:
This is regarding a possible rehab of another property that I own. It's an
older home with wood lath and plaster wall. I am considering tearing out
the lath and plaster down to the studs, then having it rewired throughout,
then having the ceilings and walls sheetrocked. I would rather not
sheetrock over the existing lath and plaster.

My question is about how contractors typically go about doing the sheetrock
over the old ceiling joists and wall studs. How do they deal with the fact
that after the demo of the original lath and plaster, the ceiling joists and
studs are often uneven -- that is, not "planed".

Do they usually just do the new sheetrock by going with what they have and
just shimming the areas that need to be shimmed to end up with a flat,
"planed", and even new sheetrock wall? Is there some other way that this is
usually done?


I would use a line level and snap chock lines getting the room square
and level. Depending on how far out it is you can cut long wedges and
tack them to the joists and studs. The new laser levels are cheap too if
you can figure out how to use them.

"RogerT" wrote in message
...
This is regarding a possible rehab of another property that I own. It's
an older home with wood lath and plaster wall. I am considering tearing
out the lath and plaster down to the studs, then having it rewired
throughout, then having the ceilings and walls sheetrocked. I would
rather not sheetrock over the existing lath and plaster.

My question is about how contractors typically go about doing the
sheetrock over the old ceiling joists and wall studs. How do they deal
with the fact that after the demo of the original lath and plaster, the
ceiling joists and studs are often uneven -- that is, not "planed".

Do they usually just do the new sheetrock by going with what they have and
just shimming the areas that need to be shimmed to end up with a flat,
"planed", and even new sheetrock wall? Is there some other way that this
is usually done?


I have seen this done by cutting a 1 1/2" deep cut at the middle of the
stud, the thickness of a 2X4. There would be mutable cuts 3 1/2' apart the
width of a 2X4; chisel out the opening. Each stud would have the same cuts
at the same location by using a chalk line. You would then install a
continuous 2X4 into the slots that were cut out in each stud. The 2X4 would
then be screwed to each stud pulling all the studs out or in making them
square with each other. This also makes the wall stronger. Hope this makes
sense.

Tom

On Feb 10, 3:48*pm, "RogerT" wrote:
This is regarding a possible rehab of another property that I own. *It's an
older home with wood lath and plaster wall. *I am considering tearing out
the lath and plaster down to the studs, then having it rewired throughout,
then having the ceilings and walls sheetrocked. *I would rather not
sheetrock over the existing lath and plaster.

My question is about how contractors typically go about doing the sheetrock
over the old ceiling joists and wall studs. *How do they deal with the fact
that after the demo of the original lath and plaster, the ceiling joists and
studs are often uneven -- that is, not "planed".

Do they usually just do the new sheetrock by going with what they have and
just shimming the areas that need to be shimmed to end up with a flat,
"planed", and even new sheetrock wall? *Is there some other way that this is
usually done?

The wood used in framing old houses is better than almost all of the
stuff used today, and plaster and lath also do a bang up job of
keeping things aligned, so the old framing is probably as true as the
day it went up. Unless you're looking for super straight walls, most
of the time only the odd stud or three on a wall would need any
shimming at all to provide a suitably straight wall acceptable to most
people. A bigger concern is the ~1/4" difference in the thickness
between the demo'd plaster and the new drywall. This presents
problems at doors and windows where the jambs extend beyond the face
of the new drywall and casings won't lay flat against the wall.

Depending on the location of the wall, and how many openings are in
it, I sometimes shim only studs that are out more than 1/8", but most
of the time I'd rather shim out the studs on walls with openings and
not have to mess with cutting back jambs in place. If there's a lot
of trim on the wall, and/or it's stained, I'll shim the wall flat.

R

On Feb 10, 2:48*pm, "RogerT" wrote:
This is regarding a possible rehab of another property that I own. *It's an
older home with wood lath and plaster wall. *I am considering tearing out
the lath and plaster down to the studs, then having it rewired throughout,
then having the ceilings and walls sheetrocked. *I would rather not
sheetrock over the existing lath and plaster.

Way to go... do it. Don't forget the Dumpster.

My question is about how contractors typically go about doing the sheetrock
over the old ceiling joists and wall studs. *How do they deal with the fact
that after the demo of the original lath and plaster, the ceiling joists and
studs are often uneven -- that is, not "planed".

Get a Bosch or similar power planer and an extra set of blades ($125
or so). Careful of old nails, try to get them all. That will do it for
the high spots.

Do they usually just do the new sheetrock by going with what they have and
just shimming the areas that need to be shimmed to end up with a flat,
"planed", and even new sheetrock wall? *Is there some other way that this is
usually done?

As cheap as work site table saws are, shims are easy to do as the
second operation. Your wall board crew (or you) will love it working
on flat walls. LSMFT above is absolutely right on getting as much
square, plumb, and level as possible. Check out all the Bosch
(especially) new laser nifties for getting things right. Their laser
measure tool (165 DLR) is indispensable and for the distance it
reports better allow a little slack or you will wind up hammering the
piece into place (too tight.). Don't forget the old fashioned chalk
line corner to corner two ways for square and dead flat. Useful around
door and window openings, too.
Sounds like you're heading down the right track,

Joe

On 2/10/2011 2:48 PM Tom Mills spake thus:

"RogerT" wrote in message
...

This is regarding a possible rehab of another property that I own.
It's an older home with wood lath and plaster wall. I am
considering tearing out the lath and plaster down to the studs,
then having it rewired throughout, then having the ceilings and
walls sheetrocked. I would rather not sheetrock over the existing
lath and plaster.

My question is about how contractors typically go about doing the
sheetrock over the old ceiling joists and wall studs. How do they
deal with the fact that after the demo of the original lath and
plaster, the ceiling joists and studs are often uneven -- that is,
not "planed".

I have seen this done by cutting a 1 1/2" deep cut at the middle of
the stud, the thickness of a 2X4. There would be mutable cuts 3 1/2'
apart the width of a 2X4; chisel out the opening. Each stud would
have the same cuts at the same location by using a chalk line. You
would then install a continuous 2X4 into the slots that were cut out
in each stud. The 2X4 would then be screwed to each stud pulling all
the studs out or in making them square with each other. This also
makes the wall stronger. Hope this makes sense.

That makes sense--sort of. I can see what you're after here, but it
seems as if this would only correct problems in the middle of the wall.
If there were any seriously misaligned studs (or joists), they would
still be out of line at the top and bottom. Also seems like an awful
amount of work, especially on a ceiling. Plus I'd think you'd have much
less luck trying to even out a ceiling, since you're trying to push the
floor above (if there is one) out of line, plus you have much stouter
framing members to try to persuade.

Shimming would seem to be the better way to go here. I agree with the
other respondent here who pointed out that the framing in old houses is
likely to be pretty well lined up and probably only needing minor
adjustments for the odd high or low stud/joist.


--
Comment on quaint Usenet customs, from Usenet:

To me, the *plonk...* reminds me of the old man at the public hearing
who stands to make his point, then removes his hearing aid as a sign
that he is not going to hear any rebuttals.

"RogerT" wrote in message
...
This is regarding a possible rehab of another property that I own. It's
an older home with wood lath and plaster wall. I am considering tearing
out the lath and plaster down to the studs, then having it rewired
throughout, then having the ceilings and walls sheetrocked. I would
rather not sheetrock over the existing lath and plaster.

My question is about how contractors typically go about doing the
sheetrock over the old ceiling joists and wall studs. How do they deal
with the fact that after the demo of the original lath and plaster, the
ceiling joists and studs are often uneven -- that is, not "planed".

Do they usually just do the new sheetrock by going with what they have and
just shimming the areas that need to be shimmed to end up with a flat,
"planed", and even new sheetrock wall? Is there some other way that this
is usually done?



Unless all the electrical boxes, doors and windows are being replaced, the
studs will need to be built out to at least 3/8" to allow for the removed
lath. A finished wall using plaster and lath was about 7/8". Drywall is
1/2".

This is no big deal but it is an added expense. Ripping up a 4x8 sheet of
3/8 CDX will give you a net material cost of about 44 cents per 8' stud
(based on 12-31-10 prices). With labor a dollar per would be a fair price
estimate.

As someone else said, chances are what you have is more true than many new
homes being built.


--
Colbyt
Please come visit http://www.househomerepair.com

The wood used in framing old houses is better than almost all of the
stuff used today, and plaster and lath also do a bang up job of
keeping things aligned, so the old framing is probably as true as the
day it went up.

Not in my house. Its balloon framed and was built around 1896.

The ceiling joists are all different widths, off by an inch or so. They
just notched them to make the next floor level and then had the plasterer
try to even it out.

What I did for the some ceilings was to add furring strips across the joists
and tried my best to shim them. In one room it was so bad I had to build a
drop ceiling with 2x4's wasn't a problem because I had 8 foot 6 inch
clearance.

The studs are the same. There is one stud that it looks like the plasterer
chopped at it with a hatchet to try to take out a bulge. There was still
one there but he just put the plaster down thinner.

For the walls a made up shims from all the old paneling. It was just shy of
an 1/8 so I just added as needed. To keep everything mostly strait I got a
8 foot straight edge and just worked my self around the room.

When they say they don't build them like they used too, thats a good thing.

This is regarding a possible rehab of another property that I own. It's
an older home with wood lath and plaster wall. I am considering tearing
out the lath and plaster down to the studs, then having it rewired
throughout, then having the ceilings and walls sheetrocked. I would
rather not sheetrock over the existing lath and plaster.

My question is about how contractors typically go about doing the
sheetrock over the old ceiling joists and wall studs. How do they deal
with the fact that after the demo of the original lath and plaster, the
ceiling joists and studs are often uneven -- that is, not "planed".

Do they usually just do the new sheetrock by going with what they have
and just shimming the areas that need to be shimmed to end up with a
flat, "planed", and even new sheetrock wall? Is there some other way
that this is usually done?



Unless all the electrical boxes, doors and windows are being replaced, the
studs will need to be built out to at least 3/8" to allow for the removed
lath. A finished wall using plaster and lath was about 7/8". Drywall is
1/2".

This is no big deal but it is an added expense. Ripping up a 4x8 sheet of
3/8 CDX will give you a net material cost of about 44 cents per 8' stud
(based on 12-31-10 prices). With labor a dollar per would be a fair price
estimate.

As someone else said, chances are what you have is more true than many new
homes being built.


*I haven't seen this done, but you got me thinking about that extra depth.
A layer of 1/2" and a layer of 3/8" drywall would give the needed 7/8".
However I am wondering if all of that extra drywall would cover-up slight
differences in stud and joist protrusions enough that it would not be
noticeable on the finished surface?

David Nebenzahl wrote:
On 2/10/2011 2:48 PM Tom Mills spake thus:

"RogerT" wrote in message
...

This is regarding a possible rehab of another property that I own.
It's an older home with wood lath and plaster wall. I am
considering tearing out the lath and plaster down to the studs,
then having it rewired throughout, then having the ceilings and
walls sheetrocked. I would rather not sheetrock over the existing
lath and plaster.

My question is about how contractors typically go about doing the
sheetrock over the old ceiling joists and wall studs. How do they
deal with the fact that after the demo of the original lath and
plaster, the ceiling joists and studs are often uneven -- that is,
not "planed".

I have seen this done by cutting a 1 1/2" deep cut at the middle of
the stud, the thickness of a 2X4. There would be mutable cuts 3 1/2'
apart the width of a 2X4; chisel out the opening. Each stud would
have the same cuts at the same location by using a chalk line. You
would then install a continuous 2X4 into the slots that were cut out
in each stud. The 2X4 would then be screwed to each stud pulling all
the studs out or in making them square with each other. This also
makes the wall stronger. Hope this makes sense.

That makes sense--sort of. I can see what you're after here, but it
seems as if this would only correct problems in the middle of the
wall. If there were any seriously misaligned studs (or joists), they
would still be out of line at the top and bottom. Also seems like an
awful amount of work, especially on a ceiling. Plus I'd think you'd
have much less luck trying to even out a ceiling, since you're trying
to push the floor above (if there is one) out of line, plus you have
much stouter framing members to try to persuade.

Shimming would seem to be the better way to go here. I agree with the
other respondent here who pointed out that the framing in old houses
is likely to be pretty well lined up and probably only needing minor
adjustments for the odd high or low stud/joist.

I think he's talking about a modified sistering.

Your project would seem pretty straightforward if you gathered up a passel
of very straight 2x4s and somethow (long straight-edge?) managed to get them
all aligned.

"John Grabowski" wrote in message
...
This is regarding a possible rehab of another property that I own. It's
an older home with wood lath and plaster wall. I am considering tearing
out the lath and plaster down to the studs, then having it rewired
throughout, then having the ceilings and walls sheetrocked. I would
rather not sheetrock over the existing lath and plaster.

My question is about how contractors typically go about doing the
sheetrock over the old ceiling joists and wall studs. How do they deal
with the fact that after the demo of the original lath and plaster, the
ceiling joists and studs are often uneven -- that is, not "planed".

Do they usually just do the new sheetrock by going with what they have
and just shimming the areas that need to be shimmed to end up with a
flat, "planed", and even new sheetrock wall? Is there some other way
that this is usually done?



Unless all the electrical boxes, doors and windows are being replaced,
the studs will need to be built out to at least 3/8" to allow for the
removed lath. A finished wall using plaster and lath was about 7/8".
Drywall is 1/2".

This is no big deal but it is an added expense. Ripping up a 4x8 sheet
of 3/8 CDX will give you a net material cost of about 44 cents per 8'
stud (based on 12-31-10 prices). With labor a dollar per would be a fair
price estimate.

As someone else said, chances are what you have is more true than many
new homes being built.


*I haven't seen this done, but you got me thinking about that extra depth.
A layer of 1/2" and a layer of 3/8" drywall would give the needed 7/8".
However I am wondering if all of that extra drywall would cover-up slight
differences in stud and joist protrusions enough that it would not be
noticeable on the finished surface?


Most homes old enough to have plaster and lath also have 3/4" sheathing on
the outside securely nailed to those studs when they were straight and
fresh. I don't think I have seen more than 1 or studs in 40 years that are
out of alignment by more than 1/8".

I do walk around the room with a 4 or 8 foot level and throw it across the
studs at eye level to verify no major problems. Bowed in I hit it with a
couple of passes with the planner. Any low spots are filled with short
scabs of the proper thickness. IMO, amounts that vary less than 1/8" do
not reflect in the finished wall.

You can use a second layer or drywall strips in lieu of the plywood but I
find that to be more work that wood. It also requires longer screws when
installing. Wood panels are available from 1/8" to 3/4" to provide just
about any stud build out needed to meet the jambs.

I am actually working on one right now. If I remember I will post a link to
some pictures after I install the strips.


--
Colbyt
Please come visit http://www.househomerepair.com

On Feb 10, 8:14*pm, "Colbyt" wrote:
"RogerT" wrote in message

...



This is regarding a possible rehab of another property that I own. *It's
an older home with wood lath and plaster wall. *I am considering tearing
out the lath and plaster down to the studs, then having it rewired
throughout, then having the ceilings and walls sheetrocked. *I would
rather not sheetrock over the existing lath and plaster.

My question is about how contractors typically go about doing the
sheetrock over the old ceiling joists and wall studs. *How do they deal
with the fact that after the demo of the original lath and plaster, the
ceiling joists and studs are often uneven -- that is, not "planed".

Do they usually just do the new sheetrock by going with what they have and
just shimming the areas that need to be shimmed to end up with a flat,
"planed", and even new sheetrock wall? *Is there some other way that this
is usually done?

Unless all the electrical boxes, doors and windows are being replaced, the
studs will need to be built out to at least 3/8" to allow for the removed
lath. *A finished wall using plaster and lath was about 7/8". *Drywall is
1/2".

This is no big deal but it is an added expense. *Ripping up a 4x8 sheet of
3/8 CDX will give you a net material cost of about 44 cents per 8' stud
(based on 12-31-10 prices). With labor a dollar per would be a fair price
estimate.

As someone else said, chances are what you have is more true than many new
homes being built.

--
Colbyt
Please come visithttp://www.househomerepair.com


Sheetrock/Drywall comes in many thicknesses...

It would be a fool's errand to use standard 1/2" thick drywall in
a situation where plaster and lath was removed... You would
want thicker drywall: 3/4" if the wall studs are square and true,
you would only use 1/2" if you had to correct a wavy wall with
strips of wood nailed to the face of the studs...

~~ Evan

On Feb 11, 8:55*am, "Colbyt" wrote:
"John Grabowski" wrote in message

...



This is regarding a possible rehab of another property that I own. *It's
an older home with wood lath and plaster wall. *I am considering tearing
out the lath and plaster down to the studs, then having it rewired
throughout, then having the ceilings and walls sheetrocked. *I would
rather not sheetrock over the existing lath and plaster.

My question is about how contractors typically go about doing the
sheetrock over the old ceiling joists and wall studs. *How do they deal
with the fact that after the demo of the original lath and plaster, the
ceiling joists and studs are often uneven -- that is, not "planed".

Do they usually just do the new sheetrock by going with what they have
and just shimming the areas that need to be shimmed to end up with a
flat, "planed", and even new sheetrock wall? *Is there some other way
that this is usually done?

Unless all the electrical boxes, doors and windows are being replaced,
the studs will need to be built out to at least 3/8" to allow for the
removed lath. *A finished wall using plaster and lath was about 7/8"..
Drywall is 1/2".

This is no big deal but it is an added expense. *Ripping up a 4x8 sheet
of 3/8 CDX will give you a net material cost of about 44 cents per 8'
stud (based on 12-31-10 prices). With labor a dollar per would be a fair
price estimate.

As someone else said, chances are what you have is more true than many
new homes being built.

*I haven't seen this done, but you got me thinking about that extra depth.
A layer of 1/2" and a layer of 3/8" drywall would give the needed 7/8".
However I am wondering if all of that extra drywall would cover-up slight
differences in stud and joist protrusions enough that it would not be
noticeable on the finished surface?

Most homes old enough to have plaster and lath also have 3/4" sheathing on
the outside securely nailed to those studs when they were straight and
fresh. *I don't think I have seen more than 1 or studs in 40 years that are
out of alignment by more than 1/8".

You've been a bit luckier than I have with the straightness, but I
agree that if the alignment is out, it ain't by much. I always enjoy
cutting into an old stud and seeing fifteen or twenty growth rings per
inch. The stuff you get now might have seven or eight if you're
lucky. Makes a big difference in stability of the wood.

I do walk around the room with a 4 or 8 foot level and throw it across the
studs at eye level to verify no major problems. *Bowed in I hit it with a
couple of passes with the planner. *Any low spots are filled with short
scabs of the proper thickness. *IMO, amounts that vary less than 1/8" *do
not reflect in the finished wall.

Right. And if you're going for that perfectly flat wall you're
probably going to be skim-coating the entire wall anyway.

You can use a second layer or drywall strips in lieu of the plywood but I
find that to be more work that wood. *It also requires longer screws when
installing. *Wood panels are available from 1/8" to 3/4" to provide just
about any stud build out needed to meet the jambs.

I am actually working on one right now. *If I remember I will post a link to
some pictures after I install the strips.

In New England strapping ceilings is common - like Cliff did. Other
people might call it furring - attaching 1x3s perpendicular to the
joists and making them form a level flat plane by shimming where they
cross the joists. One thing I never understood about people still
doing that - I've never seen any pictures where you could see that
they blocked off between 1x3s along a joist for fireblocking. From
what I've seen it seems that people just ignore that 3/4" gap - I mean
fire couldn't get through such a small gap, could it?

R

On Feb 10, 9:06*pm, "Cliff Hartle" wrote:

The wood used in framing old houses is better than almost all of the
stuff used today, and plaster and lath also do a bang up job of
keeping things aligned, so the old framing is probably as true as the
day it went up.

Not in my house. *Its balloon framed and was built around 1896.

The ceiling joists are all different widths, off by an inch or so. *They
just notched them to make the next floor level and then had the plasterer
try to even it out.

What I did for the some ceilings was to add furring strips across the joists
and tried my best to shim them. *In one room it was so bad I had to build a
drop ceiling with 2x4's wasn't a problem because I had 8 foot 6 inch
clearance.

The studs are the same. There is one stud that it looks like the plasterer
chopped at it with a hatchet to try to take out a bulge. *There was still
one there but he just put the plaster down thinner.

For the walls a made up shims from all the old paneling. *It was just shy of
an 1/8 so I just added as needed. *To keep everything mostly strait I got a
8 foot straight edge and just worked my self around the room.

When they say they don't build them like they used too, that's a good thing.

You started off with the specific, Cliff - your house, and then
extrapolated that to a generality. There's little doubt that older
houses had many features and methods of construction that have
withstood the test of time. The fact that your house is enjoying its
115th birthday is a testament to that.

From the sound of it it's possible that you have an owner and/or
carpenter(wannabe?) built house. But the hatchet thing was pretty
standard. Google framing hatchet. Few things are as quick for
trimming framing. And you are 100% right that the plasterer was
expected to correct for the deficiencies of the framers. You probably
didn't notice any wavy walls - maybe cracked plaster and such - before
opening up the walls to find the 'horrible' framing. It's only
horrible in light of today's methods and what people are used to
dealing with. The differing framing lumber widths also points to the
stuff being cut by eye at the mill. There was no screaming need to
have perfectly dimensioned lumber in widths - depths were the more
important dimension. Back then 16" on center wasn't a factor as
plywood wasn't available. That's really what drove the standardized
layout. Before that the shiplap sheathing and plaster lath could
accommodate the different stud widths without adding much more work.

The bottom line, which is the same as it is today, if you want tighter
tolerances, you're going to pay for it, one way or another.

R

"Tom Mills" wrote in message
...


"RogerT" wrote in message
...
This is regarding a possible rehab of another property that I own. It's
an older home with wood lath and plaster wall. I am considering tearing
out the lath and plaster down to the studs, then having it rewired
throughout, then having the ceilings and walls sheetrocked. I would
rather not sheetrock over the existing lath and plaster.

My question is about how contractors typically go about doing the
sheetrock over the old ceiling joists and wall studs. How do they deal
with the fact that after the demo of the original lath and plaster, the
ceiling joists and studs are often uneven -- that is, not "planed".

Do they usually just do the new sheetrock by going with what they have
and just shimming the areas that need to be shimmed to end up with a
flat, "planed", and even new sheetrock wall? Is there some other way
that this is usually done?

I have seen this done by cutting a 1 1/2" deep cut at the middle of the
stud, the thickness of a 2X4. There would be mutable cuts 3 1/2' apart
the width of a 2X4; chisel out the opening. Each stud would have the same
cuts at the same location by using a chalk line. You would then install a
continuous 2X4 into the slots that were cut out in each stud. The 2X4
would then be screwed to each stud pulling all the studs out or in making
them square with each other. This also makes the wall stronger. Hope
this makes sense.

Tom

Thanks. It took me a while to visualize and figure out what you were
describing, but I think I have it now. I guess maybe that could work for
interior walls. But, for exterior walls and ceiling joists, I'm not sure
how that would work. Pulling exterior wall studs or ceiling joists to make
them even would pull the exterior wall in or pull the floor above down.

On 2/11/2011 1:00 PM, RicodJour wrote:
On Feb 10, 9:06 pm, "Cliff wrote:

The wood used in framing old houses is better than almost all of the
stuff used today, and plaster and lath also do a bang up job of
keeping things aligned, so the old framing is probably as true as the
day it went up.

Not in my house. Its balloon framed and was built around 1896.

The ceiling joists are all different widths, off by an inch or so. They
just notched them to make the next floor level and then had the plasterer
try to even it out.

What I did for the some ceilings was to add furring strips across the joists
and tried my best to shim them. In one room it was so bad I had to build a
drop ceiling with 2x4's wasn't a problem because I had 8 foot 6 inch
clearance.

The studs are the same. There is one stud that it looks like the plasterer
chopped at it with a hatchet to try to take out a bulge. There was still
one there but he just put the plaster down thinner.

For the walls a made up shims from all the old paneling. It was just shy of
an 1/8 so I just added as needed. To keep everything mostly strait I got a
8 foot straight edge and just worked my self around the room.

When they say they don't build them like they used too, that's a good thing.

You started off with the specific, Cliff - your house, and then
extrapolated that to a generality. There's little doubt that older
houses had many features and methods of construction that have
withstood the test of time. The fact that your house is enjoying its
115th birthday is a testament to that.

From the sound of it it's possible that you have an owner and/or
carpenter(wannabe?) built house. But the hatchet thing was pretty
standard. Google framing hatchet. Few things are as quick for
trimming framing. And you are 100% right that the plasterer was
expected to correct for the deficiencies of the framers. You probably
didn't notice any wavy walls - maybe cracked plaster and such - before
opening up the walls to find the 'horrible' framing. It's only
horrible in light of today's methods and what people are used to
dealing with. The differing framing lumber widths also points to the
stuff being cut by eye at the mill. There was no screaming need to
have perfectly dimensioned lumber in widths - depths were the more
important dimension. Back then 16" on center wasn't a factor as
plywood wasn't available. That's really what drove the standardized
layout. Before that the shiplap sheathing and plaster lath could
accommodate the different stud widths without adding much more work.

The bottom line, which is the same as it is today, if you want tighter
tolerances, you're going to pay for it, one way or another.

R

Shrug. I've seen crap and hillbilly old houses, and crap and hillbilly
newer houses. All depends on the quality of design, skill and caring
level of the folks who put it together, and the quality of the
materials. Yes, in general, old lumber was better- they still had real
trees to cut down back then, not the bred-to-be-fast-growing babies we
use now. (I drool at the quality of the interior trim on even
entry-level 1950s houses. Tight joints were expected back then, I guess.)

--
aem sends...

"RogerT" wrote in message
...
This is regarding a possible rehab of another property that I own. It's
an older home with wood lath and plaster wall. I am considering tearing
out the lath and plaster down to the studs, then having it rewired
throughout, then having the ceilings and walls sheetrocked. I would
rather not sheetrock over the existing lath and plaster.

My question is about how contractors typically go about doing the
sheetrock over the old ceiling joists and wall studs. How do they deal
with the fact that after the demo of the original lath and plaster, the
ceiling joists and studs are often uneven -- that is, not "planed".

Do they usually just do the new sheetrock by going with what they have and
just shimming the areas that need to be shimmed to end up with a flat,
"planed", and even new sheetrock wall? Is there some other way that this
is usually done?

Thanks everyone for all of the thoughts and suggestions.

I was hoping there was some magic solution out there that would make the new
sheetrocking fairly easy and would make it go quickly. It looks like I'll
probably have to go the route of shimming etc.

In the past when I have encountered this, it was only for a ceiling in one
room at a time. In those cases, we decided to just go with sistering the
existing joists to create a new flat and planed surface to attach the new
sheetrock. In one case, we used wood 2x4's for the sistering and in another
case we used steel framing for the sister joists.

But, with this project, it would involve a lot of ceilings and walls, so
sistering all of those seems like it would be too much to get into doing.

On Feb 11, 7:57*pm, "RogerT" wrote:
"RogerT" wrote in message

...

This is regarding a possible rehab of another property that I own. *It's
an older home with wood lath and plaster wall. *I am considering tearing
out the lath and plaster down to the studs, then having it rewired
throughout, then having the ceilings and walls sheetrocked. *I would
rather not sheetrock over the existing lath and plaster.

My question is about how contractors typically go about doing the
sheetrock over the old ceiling joists and wall studs. *How do they deal
with the fact that after the demo of the original lath and plaster, the
ceiling joists and studs are often uneven -- that is, not "planed".

Do they usually just do the new sheetrock by going with what they have and
just shimming the areas that need to be shimmed to end up with a flat,
"planed", and even new sheetrock wall? *Is there some other way that this
is usually done?

Thanks everyone for all of the thoughts and suggestions.

I was hoping there was some magic solution out there that would make the new
sheetrocking fairly easy and would make it go quickly. *It looks like I'll
probably have to go the route of shimming etc.

In the past when I have encountered this, it was only for a ceiling in one
room at a time. *In those cases, we decided to just go with sistering the
existing joists to create a new flat and planed surface to attach the new
sheetrock. *In one case, we used wood 2x4's for the sistering and in another
case we used steel framing for the sister joists.

But, with this project, it would involve a lot of ceilings and walls, so
sistering all of those seems like it would be too much to get into doing.

You don't want to sister things. Save that for things structural. As
far as the shimming, the most important thing when replacing plaster
with drywall is shimming for the overall thickness discrepancy, then
it's a matter of shimming individual studs as required for
alignment.

If you have to build out more than 1/4" you can use a single layer or
a double layer of thinner material, such as luan plywood. A sheet of
luan is cheap and when ripped down goes a long way. A double layer of
luan, each attached with a staple hammer with the joints staggered,
goes up fast and will be in the right ballpark for the typical
thickness difference between plaster and drywall. A single layer of
luan will take care of more severe individual stud alignment
discrepancies, and layer(s) of non-corrugated cardboard, such as
poster board, attached with a staple hammer will take care of the less
severe stud alignment discrepancy.

R

On 2/11/2011 12:48 PM, RicodJour wrote:
On Feb 11, 8:55 am, wrote:
"John wrote in message

...



This is regarding a possible rehab of another property that I own. It's
an older home with wood lath and plaster wall. I am considering tearing
out the lath and plaster down to the studs, then having it rewired
throughout, then having the ceilings and walls sheetrocked. I would
rather not sheetrock over the existing lath and plaster.

My question is about how contractors typically go about doing the
sheetrock over the old ceiling joists and wall studs. How do they deal
with the fact that after the demo of the original lath and plaster, the
ceiling joists and studs are often uneven -- that is, not "planed".

Do they usually just do the new sheetrock by going with what they have
and just shimming the areas that need to be shimmed to end up with a
flat, "planed", and even new sheetrock wall? Is there some other way
that this is usually done?

Unless all the electrical boxes, doors and windows are being replaced,
the studs will need to be built out to at least 3/8" to allow for the
removed lath. A finished wall using plaster and lath was about 7/8".
Drywall is 1/2".

This is no big deal but it is an added expense. Ripping up a 4x8 sheet
of 3/8 CDX will give you a net material cost of about 44 cents per 8'
stud (based on 12-31-10 prices). With labor a dollar per would be a fair
price estimate.

As someone else said, chances are what you have is more true than many
new homes being built.

*I haven't seen this done, but you got me thinking about that extra depth.
A layer of 1/2" and a layer of 3/8" drywall would give the needed 7/8".
However I am wondering if all of that extra drywall would cover-up slight
differences in stud and joist protrusions enough that it would not be
noticeable on the finished surface?

Most homes old enough to have plaster and lath also have 3/4" sheathing on
the outside securely nailed to those studs when they were straight and
fresh. I don't think I have seen more than 1 or studs in 40 years that are
out of alignment by more than 1/8".

You've been a bit luckier than I have with the straightness, but I
agree that if the alignment is out, it ain't by much. I always enjoy
cutting into an old stud and seeing fifteen or twenty growth rings per
inch. The stuff you get now might have seven or eight if you're
lucky. Makes a big difference in stability of the wood.

I do walk around the room with a 4 or 8 foot level and throw it across the
studs at eye level to verify no major problems. Bowed in I hit it with a
couple of passes with the planner. Any low spots are filled with short
scabs of the proper thickness. IMO, amounts that vary less than 1/8" do
not reflect in the finished wall.

Right. And if you're going for that perfectly flat wall you're
probably going to be skim-coating the entire wall anyway.

You can use a second layer or drywall strips in lieu of the plywood but I
find that to be more work that wood. It also requires longer screws when
installing. Wood panels are available from 1/8" to 3/4" to provide just
about any stud build out needed to meet the jambs.

I am actually working on one right now. If I remember I will post a link to
some pictures after I install the strips.

In New England strapping ceilings is common - like Cliff did. Other
people might call it furring - attaching 1x3s perpendicular to the
joists and making them form a level flat plane by shimming where they
cross the joists. One thing I never understood about people still
doing that - I've never seen any pictures where you could see that
they blocked off between 1x3s along a joist for fireblocking. From
what I've seen it seems that people just ignore that 3/4" gap - I mean
fire couldn't get through such a small gap, could it?

R

Within the field of a ceiling, it is not a big issue, unless that joist
bay is being used as a cold-air return or other plenum. (Consider a
dropped ceiling with fire-rated tiles, and no rock above.) Fireblocking
is mainly needed along walls, especially in balloon-framed older houses.
Even in a modern house, you don't want a good air path between a stud
bay and a joist bay, but the top plates usually cover that, again with
the exception of plenums, or an unusually framed room.

Standard disclaimer- I'm no fire code expert, but that is how it was
explained to me back in the day. In commercial work, they even make you
fire-caulk the gaps around pipes and cables, if it goes through a
fire-rocked or masonry wall.

--
aem sends...

RicodJour wrote:
On Feb 11, 7:57 pm, "RogerT" wrote:
"RogerT" wrote in message

I was hoping there was some magic solution out there that would make
the new sheetrocking fairly easy and would make it go quickly. It
looks like I'll probably have to go the route of shimming etc.

In the past when I have encountered this, it was only for a ceiling
in one room at a time. In those cases, we decided to just go with
sistering the existing joists . . . .

You don't want to sister things. Save that for things structural. As
far as the shimming, the most important thing when replacing plaster
with drywall is shimming for the overall thickness discrepancy, then
it's a matter of shimming individual studs as required for
alignment.

Thanks. In my case, I won't have to worry about accounting for the overall
thickness discrepency between the old lath and plaster and the new
sheetrock. The reason is that this property has an unusual (to me)
construction. It is a side-by-side twin home and all 4 exterior walls are
stone. I say "stone", but it's some kind of red clay-looking blocks that
are stacked on top of each other. Those 4 exterior walls then have a rough
coat and then a finish coat of plaster right on the stone to create the
interior side of each of those walls -- no lath, just stone and two types of
plaster on top of the stone. The only lath and plaster is on the ceilings
and the interior room divider walls and walls between the rooms and the
hallways.

If I do go with the complete tear-off of the lath and plaster, I will be
replacing all of the interior doors and door frames at the same time. I
would have the door openings reframed to accomadate standard size pre-hung
80-inch high doors. And, of course, the baseboad trim would all be ripped
out at the same time. So matching the old lath and plaster thickness won't
be an issue.

If you have to build out more than 1/4" you can use a single layer or
a double layer of thinner material, such as luan plywood. A sheet of
luan is cheap and when ripped down goes a long way. A double layer of
luan, each attached with a staple hammer with the joints staggered,
goes up fast and will be in the right ballpark for the typical
thickness difference between plaster and drywall. A single layer of
luan will take care of more severe individual stud alignment
discrepancies, and layer(s) of non-corrugated cardboard, such as
poster board, attached with a staple hammer will take care of the less
severe stud alignment discrepancy.

R

On Feb 12, 4:39*pm, "RogerT" wrote:
RicodJour wrote:

You don't want to sister things. *Save that for things structural. *As
far as the shimming, the most important thing when replacing plaster
with drywall is shimming for the overall thickness discrepancy, then
it's a matter of shimming individual studs as required for
alignment.

Thanks. *In my case, I won't have to worry about accounting for the overall
thickness discrepency between the old lath and plaster and the new
sheetrock. *The reason is that this property has an unusual (to me)
construction. *It is a side-by-side twin home and all 4 exterior walls are
stone. *I say "stone", but it's some kind of red clay-looking blocks that
are stacked on top of each other. *Those 4 exterior walls then have a rough
coat and then a finish coat of plaster right on the stone to create the
interior side of each of those walls -- no lath, just stone and two types of
plaster on top of the stone. *The only lath and plaster is on the ceilings
and the interior room divider walls and walls between the rooms and the
hallways.

Where are you located? I guess you're in a pretty mild climate, as
plaster on stone or clay around here would be akin to living in a
refrigerator. Or you'd have to have the heating on all of the time,
and live away from the exterior walls.

If I do go with the complete tear-off of the lath and plaster, I will be
replacing all of the interior doors and door frames at the same time. *I
would have the door openings reframed to accomadate standard size pre-hung
80-inch high doors. *And, of course, the baseboad trim would all be ripped
out at the same time. *So matching the old lath and plaster thickness won't
be an issue.

Well, that's easy enough then. Please post back after you've finished
the ripout, and let us know how far those interior studs are out of
alignment. I'm betting it'll be better than you think.

R

On Feb 12, 4:39*pm, aemeijers wrote:
On 2/11/2011 12:48 PM, RicodJour wrote:

In New England strapping ceilings is common - like Cliff did. *Other
people might call it furring - attaching 1x3s perpendicular to the
joists and making them form a level flat plane by shimming where they
cross the joists. *One thing I never understood about people still
doing that - I've never seen any pictures where you could see that
they blocked off between 1x3s along a joist for fireblocking. *From
what I've seen it seems that people just ignore that 3/4" gap - I mean
fire couldn't get through such a small gap, could it? *


Within the field of a ceiling, it is not a big issue, unless that joist
bay is being used as a cold-air return or other plenum. (Consider a
dropped ceiling with fire-rated tiles, and no rock above.) *Fireblocking
is mainly needed along walls, especially in balloon-framed older houses.
Even in a modern house, you don't want a good air path between a stud
bay and a joist bay, but the top plates usually cover that, again with
the exception of plenums, or an unusually framed room.

Standard disclaimer- I'm no fire code expert, but *that is *how it was
explained to me back in the day. In commercial work, they even make you
fire-caulk the gaps around pipes and cables, if it goes through a
fire-rocked or masonry wall.

My question was really more about how come fireblocking/draftstopping
doesn't seem to be an issue when ceilings are strapped. Code is quite
clear on the requirement, so I'm not sure why it seems to be
overlooked on the New England home improvement shows where strapping
is common.

R

On 2/12/2011 5:17 PM, RicodJour wrote:
On Feb 12, 4:39 pm, wrote:
On 2/11/2011 12:48 PM, RicodJour wrote:

In New England strapping ceilings is common - like Cliff did. Other
people might call it furring - attaching 1x3s perpendicular to the
joists and making them form a level flat plane by shimming where they
cross the joists. One thing I never understood about people still
doing that - I've never seen any pictures where you could see that
they blocked off between 1x3s along a joist for fireblocking. From
what I've seen it seems that people just ignore that 3/4" gap - I mean
fire couldn't get through such a small gap, could it?


Within the field of a ceiling, it is not a big issue, unless that joist
bay is being used as a cold-air return or other plenum. (Consider a
dropped ceiling with fire-rated tiles, and no rock above.) Fireblocking
is mainly needed along walls, especially in balloon-framed older houses.
Even in a modern house, you don't want a good air path between a stud
bay and a joist bay, but the top plates usually cover that, again with
the exception of plenums, or an unusually framed room.

Standard disclaimer- I'm no fire code expert, but that is how it was
explained to me back in the day. In commercial work, they even make you
fire-caulk the gaps around pipes and cables, if it goes through a
fire-rocked or masonry wall.

My question was really more about how come fireblocking/draftstopping
doesn't seem to be an issue when ceilings are strapped. Code is quite
clear on the requirement, so I'm not sure why it seems to be
overlooked on the New England home improvement shows where strapping
is common.

R

I've never heard of it being an issue other than at the wall-ceiling
junction. If each joist bay is blocked at the ends, it really isn't a
conduit to anywhere. And I have seen the TOH guys and Holmes both remark
that fire blocking needed to be added in wall on a gut job, or fire rock
extended to top-plate level, when a drop ceiling was being retrofitted.
And drop ceilings of course are dirt-common in commercial remodels, even
those of frame construction, as well as residential basements, and the
joist bays are all open there.

You wanna see scary, poke around in the ceilings of the 80-110 year old
(depending on wing) building where I work. Multiple generations of
remodels, most done by low bidder. There are several originally-public
spaces and corridors with multiple layers of ceiling, and visible
hatchet marks on the old ceilings where they ran pipes, attached hanger
wires, etc. Lotsa dead spaces and fire propagation paths. And the older
ceilings are plaster over heavy-gauge mesh. Firemen won't be pulling
those down with a hooked stick. Most of the building itself is probably
damn near burn-proof (other than the wood framed/decked roofs, and some
floored-over atriums, on the older parts), but the modern office
furnishings (cubicle walls, carpet squares, chipboard desks, foam
chairs, full file cabinets, etc) present plenty of burnable material.
They did retrofit sprinklers to most of it, but if any space in that
building gets heavily involved, the knockdown, cleanup, and rebuild will
not be pretty or painless.

--
aem sends...

On Feb 10, 3:48*pm, "RogerT" wrote:
This is regarding a possible rehab of another property that I own. *It's an
older home with wood lath and plaster wall. *I am considering tearing out
the lath and plaster down to the studs, then having it rewired throughout,
then having the ceilings and walls sheetrocked. *I would rather not
sheetrock over the existing lath and plaster.

My question is about how contractors typically go about doing the sheetrock
over the old ceiling joists and wall studs. *How do they deal with the fact
that after the demo of the original lath and plaster, the ceiling joists and
studs are often uneven -- that is, not "planed".

Do they usually just do the new sheetrock by going with what they have and
just shimming the areas that need to be shimmed to end up with a flat,
"planed", and even new sheetrock wall? *Is there some other way that this is
usually done?

Ceiling was probably done on 24 inch centers. Run strips of .5 inch
plywood across the ceiling joist on 16 inch centers and shim as
required. Do the same to the walls. If you have some joist or studs
that are really setting proud you may be able to dress them down with
a belt sander.....other option is to replace. Just my $.02 and I may
do it different if I were there.



Jimmie

On Feb 12, 6:07*pm, JIMMIE wrote:
On Feb 10, 3:48*pm, "RogerT" wrote:

This is regarding a possible rehab of another property that I own. *It's an
older home with wood lath and plaster wall. *I am considering tearing out
the lath and plaster down to the studs, then having it rewired throughout,
then having the ceilings and walls sheetrocked. *I would rather not
sheetrock over the existing lath and plaster.

My question is about how contractors typically go about doing the sheetrock
over the old ceiling joists and wall studs. *How do they deal with the fact
that after the demo of the original lath and plaster, the ceiling joists and
studs are often uneven -- that is, not "planed".

Do they usually just do the new sheetrock by going with what they have and
just shimming the areas that need to be shimmed to end up with a flat,
"planed", and even new sheetrock wall? *Is there some other way that this is
usually done?

Ceiling was probably done on 24 inch centers. Run strips of .5 inch
plywood across the ceiling joist on 16 inch centers and shim as
required. Do the same to the walls. If you have some joist or studs
that are really setting proud you may be able to dress them down with
a belt sander.....other option is to replace. Just my $.02 and I may
do it different if I were there.

It sounds like you're saying to use 1/2" plywood strips as strapping.
Wouldn't that sag like a mofo?

R

On 2/12/2011 6:49 PM, RicodJour wrote:
On Feb 12, 6:07 pm, wrote:
On Feb 10, 3:48 pm, wrote:

This is regarding a possible rehab of another property that I own. It's an
older home with wood lath and plaster wall. I am considering tearing out
the lath and plaster down to the studs, then having it rewired throughout,
then having the ceilings and walls sheetrocked. I would rather not
sheetrock over the existing lath and plaster.

My question is about how contractors typically go about doing the sheetrock
over the old ceiling joists and wall studs. How do they deal with the fact
that after the demo of the original lath and plaster, the ceiling joists and
studs are often uneven -- that is, not "planed".

Do they usually just do the new sheetrock by going with what they have and
just shimming the areas that need to be shimmed to end up with a flat,
"planed", and even new sheetrock wall? Is there some other way that this is
usually done?

Ceiling was probably done on 24 inch centers. Run strips of .5 inch
plywood across the ceiling joist on 16 inch centers and shim as
required. Do the same to the walls. If you have some joist or studs
that are really setting proud you may be able to dress them down with
a belt sander.....other option is to replace. Just my $.02 and I may
do it different if I were there.

It sounds like you're saying to use 1/2" plywood strips as strapping.
Wouldn't that sag like a mofo?

R

Real plywood, no, if the strips were wide enough, like 2-3 inches. OSB
crap, probably. I'd check the prices on strapping at the local yards
before I did that. Ripping plywood into strips, table saw or skilsaw,
is tiring work. I remember pushing a whole lotta 1x cedar through a
table saw one summer for fence boards. Not hard, but tedious, and you
gotta pay attention all the time when you are cutting.

--
aem sends...

On Feb 12, 7:11*pm, aemeijers wrote:
On 2/12/2011 6:49 PM, RicodJour wrote:
On Feb 12, 6:07 pm, *wrote:
On Feb 10, 3:48 pm, *wrote:

This is regarding a possible rehab of another property that I own. *It's an
older home with wood lath and plaster wall. *I am considering tearing out
the lath and plaster down to the studs, then having it rewired throughout,
then having the ceilings and walls sheetrocked. *I would rather not
sheetrock over the existing lath and plaster.

My question is about how contractors typically go about doing the sheetrock
over the old ceiling joists and wall studs. *How do they deal with the fact
that after the demo of the original lath and plaster, the ceiling joists and
studs are often uneven -- that is, not "planed".

Do they usually just do the new sheetrock by going with what they have and
just shimming the areas that need to be shimmed to end up with a flat,
"planed", and even new sheetrock wall? *Is there some other way that this is
usually done?

Ceiling was probably done on 24 inch centers. Run strips of .5 inch
plywood across the ceiling joist on 16 inch centers and shim as
required. Do the same to the walls. If you have some joist or studs
that are really setting proud you may be able to dress them down with
a belt sander.....other option is to replace. Just my $.02 and I may
do it different if I were there.

It sounds like you're saying to use 1/2" plywood strips as strapping.
Wouldn't that sag like a mofo?


Real plywood, no, if the strips were wide enough, like 2-3 inches. OSB
crap, probably. I'd check the prices on strapping at the local yards
before I did that. *Ripping plywood into strips, table saw or skilsaw,
is tiring work. *I remember pushing a whole lotta 1x cedar through a
table saw one summer for fence boards. Not hard, but tedious, and you
gotta pay attention all the time when you are cutting.

1/2" plywood is not going to be stiff enough to keep a drywall ceiling
from sagging over time. Might look fine when it's just finished, but
sure as shooting you'll have a rippled ceiling before too long. With
16" OC joists and 16" OC strapping, there's ~4# per strip, and 24" OC
joists = ~6#/strip. Not a lot of load, but it's a constant load and
there's no forgiveness in a ceiling. If the thing only sagged 3/16"
to 1/4", you'd see the repeating pattern of ripples running along the
ceiling. You wouldn't see them in all light conditions, but you would
see them.

R

RicodJour wrote:
On Feb 12, 4:39 pm, "RogerT" wrote:
RicodJour wrote:

You don't want to sister things. Save that for things structural. As
far as the shimming, the most important thing when replacing plaster
with drywall is shimming for the overall thickness discrepancy, then
it's a matter of shimming individual studs as required for
alignment.

Thanks. In my case, I won't have to worry about accounting for the
overall thickness discrepency between the old lath and plaster and
the new sheetrock. The reason is that this property has an unusual
(to me) construction. It is a side-by-side twin home and all 4
exterior walls are stone. I say "stone", but it's some kind of red
clay-looking blocks that are stacked on top of each other. Those 4
exterior walls then have a rough coat and then a finish coat of
plaster right on the stone to create the interior side of each of
those walls -- no lath, just stone and two types of plaster on top
of the stone. The only lath and plaster is on the ceilings and the
interior room divider walls and walls between the rooms and the
hallways.

Where are you located? I guess you're in a pretty mild climate, as
plaster on stone or clay around here would be akin to living in a
refrigerator. Or you'd have to have the heating on all of the time,
and live away from the exterior walls.

I am on the U.S. East Coast -- New Jersey. The property does use a LOT of
gas for heating in winter. I had attributed that in part to the fact that
it is a large older home with old and drafty windows. The windows are all
going to be replaced. But, now that you mention it, the stone/block walls
with no insulation barrier (it has a stucco exterior on top of the
stone/block) could also be causing a huge heat loss. I have given some
thought to putting up new wood frame walls on the inside of the 3 exterior
stone/block walls to accomodate wiring etc. And, if I did that I could
insulate them. I would probably skip the stone/block partition wall between
this property and the other twin home that is attached along that wall. I
am still not sure whether I will do the wood frame walls, but the insualtion
factor is another reason in favor of going ahead with that idea.

On Feb 14, 11:28*am, "RogerT" wrote:
RicodJour wrote:
On Feb 12, 4:39 pm, "RogerT" wrote:
RicodJour wrote:

You don't want to sister things. Save that for things structural. As
far as the shimming, the most important thing when replacing plaster
with drywall is shimming for the overall thickness discrepancy, then
it's a matter of shimming individual studs as required for
alignment.

Thanks. In my case, I won't have to worry about accounting for the
overall thickness discrepency between the old lath and plaster and
the new sheetrock. The reason is that this property has an unusual
(to me) construction. It is a side-by-side twin home and all 4
exterior walls are stone. I say "stone", but it's some kind of red
clay-looking blocks that are stacked on top of each other. Those 4
exterior walls then have a rough coat and then a finish coat of
plaster right on the stone to create the interior side of each of
those walls -- no lath, just stone and two types of plaster on top
of the stone. The only lath and plaster is on the ceilings and the
interior room divider walls and walls between the rooms and the
hallways.
Where are you located? *I guess you're in a pretty mild climate, as
plaster on stone or clay around here would be akin to living in a
refrigerator. *Or you'd have to have the heating on all of the time,
and live away from the exterior walls.

I am on the U.S. East Coast -- New Jersey. *The property does use a LOT of
gas for heating in winter. *I had attributed that in part to the fact that
it is a large older home with old and drafty windows. *The windows are all
going to be replaced. *But, now that you mention it, the stone/block walls
with no insulation barrier (it has a stucco exterior on top of the
stone/block) could also be causing a huge heat loss. *I have given some
thought to putting up new wood frame walls on the inside of the 3 exterior
stone/block walls to accomodate wiring etc. *And, if I did that I could
insulate them. *I would probably skip the stone/block partition wall between
this property and the other twin home that is attached along that wall. *I
am still not sure whether I will do the wood frame walls, but the insualtion
factor is another reason in favor of going ahead with that idea.

You may want to look into one of the insulated basement finishing
systems. They provide unbroken insulation (wood or metal studs are
thermal short-circuits), and wood against stone/masonry presents
problems with future rot and mold growth. I would imagine that if you
insulated your solid masonry exterior walls you'd cut your heating
bill by a very large amount. You would also qualify for state and
federal energy credits off of your taxes.

R

RicodJour wrote:

You may want to look into one of the insulated basement finishing
systems. They provide unbroken insulation (wood or metal studs are
thermal short-circuits), and wood against stone/masonry presents
problems with future rot and mold growth. I would imagine that if you
insulated your solid masonry exterior walls you'd cut your heating
bill by a very large amount. You would also qualify for state and
federal energy credits off of your taxes.

Thanks. If I decide to do the exterior walls, I will probably just build a
new wood frame wall next to the masonry, keeping the studs about 1/4 inch
away from the masonry, then insulate and drywall. That would also create an
easy way to do the wiring on those walls.

On Feb 16, 9:08*am, "RogerT" wrote:
RicodJour wrote:

You may want to look into one of the insulated basement finishing
systems. *They provide unbroken insulation (wood or metal studs are
thermal short-circuits), and wood against stone/masonry presents
problems with future rot and mold growth. *I would imagine that if you
insulated your solid masonry exterior walls you'd cut your heating
bill by a very large amount. *You would also qualify for state and
federal energy credits off of your taxes.

Thanks. *If I decide to do the exterior walls, I will probably just build a
new wood frame wall next to the masonry, keeping the studs about 1/4 inch
away from the masonry, then insulate and drywall. *That would also create an
easy way to do the wiring on those walls.

Masonry walls are not waterproof. Any water vapor or water intrusion,
from either side of the wall, will make those studs a lovely growth
medium for mold and promote rot.

If you are set on the wood studs they should be treated and other
steps should be taken to make your time, effort and money last as long
as possible. Otherwise you'll be shooting yourself in the foot if
you're going to be in the house for a long time, and if you won't be
you'll be creating a problem for the next owner.

Always take care of the next guy. Half the time you are the next guy.

R

RogerT wrote:
This is regarding a possible rehab of another property that I own. It's an
older home with wood lath and plaster wall. I am considering
tearing out the lath and plaster down to the studs, then having it
rewired throughout, then having the ceilings and walls sheetrocked. I
would rather not sheetrock over the existing lath and plaster.

My question is about how contractors typically go about doing the
sheetrock over the old ceiling joists and wall studs. How do they
deal with the fact that after the demo of the original lath and
plaster, the ceiling joists and studs are often uneven -- that is,
not "planed".
Do they usually just do the new sheetrock by going with what they
have and just shimming the areas that need to be shimmed to end up
with a flat, "planed", and even new sheetrock wall? Is there some
other way that this is usually done?

For ceilings, I just learned about another option called a "Chicago Grid"(?)
on another forum. It's a metal frame system like a drop ceiling metal frame
(only stronger), and the sheetrock gets screwed onto the framing from
underneath, and then the seams are taped.

Here is a link to the company that makes the metal grid system:

http://products.construction.com/man...rid-nst32093-p .