Besides getting laughed at by your co-workers and cursed at by the
person who tries to get it apart, what's wrong with soldering a
threaded connection?

A co-worker was telling me about his first foray into the world of
sweated plumbing connections.

He was a installing a new shower valve which involved a threaded
connection at the valve and then sweated fittings after that.

He got everything installed and sweated but when he turned the water
on, it leaked at one of the threaded fittings. He looked at the
situation, realized he couldn't tighten the connection since
everything else was soldered in place, so he took the easy way out.

He grabbed the torch and sweated the threaded connection.

Is he looking at problems down the road?

On Feb 6, 5:41*pm, Daniel Leonard wrote:

Besides getting laughed at by your co-workers and cursed at by the
person who tries to get it apart, what's wrong with soldering a
threaded connection?

A co-worker was telling me about his first foray into the world of
sweated plumbing connections.

He was a installing a new shower valve which involved a threaded
connection at the valve and then sweated fittings after that.

He got everything installed and sweated but when he turned the water
on, it leaked at one of the threaded fittings. He looked at the
situation, realized he couldn't tighten the connection since
everything else was soldered in place, so he took the easy way out.

He grabbed the torch and sweated the threaded connection.

Is he looking at problems down the road?

Almost without a doubt. Let me rephrase that - yes.

Firstly the threaded connection should have had teflon tape or pipe
dope. If neither was applied there's no surprise it leaked. A
sweated connection, even using the correct fitting, needs to be
cleaned with a wire brush or emory cloth, and flux must be used.
Without those critical steps a sweated joint will likely fail.
Without those steps on a threaded joint, well, it's basically
hopeless.

The joint might not leak immediately, but a shower body usually has
hot water running through it and the normal expansion and contraction
and any other movement in the pipes or building will eventually create
a pinhole leak.

The problem might not be noticed for a good long while, and by that
time you're dealing with ripping open ceilings and tiled walls, and
dealing with mold and rotted wood.

Covering up such a situation and hoping for the best is like holding
your breath as a form of birth control.

R

On Feb 6, 4:41*pm, Daniel Leonard wrote:

snip

He grabbed the torch and sweated the threaded connection.

Is he looking at problems down the road?

Let's get up a pool on the date that it fails...first month,... second
month,,,third month
If there are teens in the house the odds go to the soonest. All bets
are off if he goes on vacation without shutting off the water.

Joe

In article ,
Daniel Leonard wrote:
Besides getting laughed at by your co-workers and cursed at by the
person who tries to get it apart, what's wrong with soldering a
threaded connection?

A co-worker was telling me about his first foray into the world of
sweated plumbing connections.

He was a installing a new shower valve which involved a threaded
connection at the valve and then sweated fittings after that.

He got everything installed and sweated but when he turned the water
on, it leaked at one of the threaded fittings. He looked at the
situation, realized he couldn't tighten the connection since
everything else was soldered in place, so he took the easy way out.

He grabbed the torch and sweated the threaded connection.

Is he looking at problems down the road?

I don't think he'll have any problems until the time comes to take it
apart, but I sure am curious as to how he cleaned and fluxed that joint
after it had been screwed together, and also how the flux reacted with
the pipe dope or pipe tape.


--
Often wrong, never in doubt.

Larry Wasserman - Baltimore Maryland - lwasserm(a)sdf. lonestar. org

?
"Larry W" wrote
He got everything installed and sweated but when he turned the water
on, it leaked at one of the threaded fittings. He looked at the
situation, realized he couldn't tighten the connection since
everything else was soldered in place, so he took the easy way out.

He grabbed the torch and sweated the threaded connection.

Is he looking at problems down the road?

I don't think he'll have any problems until the time comes to take it
apart, but I sure am curious as to how he cleaned and fluxed that joint
after it had been screwed together, and also how the flux reacted with
the pipe dope or pipe tape.


Sounds like he did none of that. My guess is that he has solder holding
just at the lip, not inside the joint. I doubt he'd have a catastrophic
failure, but certainly could stat dripping soon.

On 2/6/2011 4:56 PM, RicodJour wrote:
On Feb 6, 5:41 pm, Daniel wrote:

Besides getting laughed at by your co-workers and cursed at by the
person who tries to get it apart, what's wrong with soldering a
threaded connection?

A co-worker was telling me about his first foray into the world of
sweated plumbing connections.

He was a installing a new shower valve which involved a threaded
connection at the valve and then sweated fittings after that.

He got everything installed and sweated but when he turned the water
on, it leaked at one of the threaded fittings. He looked at the
situation, realized he couldn't tighten the connection since
everything else was soldered in place, so he took the easy way out.

He grabbed the torch and sweated the threaded connection.

Is he looking at problems down the road?

Almost without a doubt. Let me rephrase that - yes.

Firstly the threaded connection should have had teflon tape or pipe
dope. If neither was applied there's no surprise it leaked. A
sweated connection, even using the correct fitting, needs to be
cleaned with a wire brush or emory cloth, and flux must be used.
Without those critical steps a sweated joint will likely fail.
Without those steps on a threaded joint, well, it's basically
hopeless.

The joint might not leak immediately, but a shower body usually has
hot water running through it and the normal expansion and contraction
and any other movement in the pipes or building will eventually create
a pinhole leak.

The problem might not be noticed for a good long while, and by that
time you're dealing with ripping open ceilings and tiled walls, and
dealing with mold and rotted wood.

Covering up such a situation and hoping for the best is like holding
your breath as a form of birth control.

R

You assume he used pipe dope or Teflon tape? :-)

TDD

On Feb 6, 5:41*pm, Daniel Leonard wrote:
Besides getting laughed at by your co-workers and cursed at by the
person who tries to get it apart, what's wrong with soldering a
threaded connection?

A co-worker was telling me about his first foray into the world of
sweated plumbing connections.

He was a installing a new shower valve which involved a threaded
connection at the valve and then sweated fittings after that.

He got everything installed and sweated but when he turned the water
on, it leaked at one of the threaded fittings. He looked at the
situation, realized he couldn't tighten the connection since
everything else was soldered in place, so he took the easy way out.

He grabbed the torch and sweated the threaded connection.

Is he looking at problems down the road?

I think it will be fine. Even in a normal install when the valve has
to be replaced the pipes have to be cut. I always thought they should
use flared fittings on those valves.

In this thread, I've not seen anyone who thinks the OP used
teflon tape or pipe dope. If he had, there wouldn't be a
leak.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"The Daring Dufas"
wrote in message
...

Firstly the threaded connection should have had teflon
tape or pipe
dope. If neither was applied there's no surprise it
leaked. A
sweated connection, even using the correct fitting, needs
to be
cleaned with a wire brush or emory cloth, and flux must be
used.
Without those critical steps a sweated joint will likely
fail.
Without those steps on a threaded joint, well, it's
basically
hopeless.


You assume he used pipe dope or Teflon tape? :-)

TDD

Daniel Leonard wrote:
Besides getting laughed at by your co-workers and cursed at by the
person who tries to get it apart, what's wrong with soldering a
threaded connection?

A co-worker was telling me about his first foray into the world of
sweated plumbing connections.

He was a installing a new shower valve which involved a threaded
connection at the valve and then sweated fittings after that.

He got everything installed and sweated but when he turned the water
on, it leaked at one of the threaded fittings. He looked at the
situation, realized he couldn't tighten the connection since
everything else was soldered in place, so he took the easy way out.

He grabbed the torch and sweated the threaded connection.

Is he looking at problems down the road?

Only a moron would do that.

On Feb 7, 10:37*am, LSMFT wrote:
Daniel Leonard wrote:

He grabbed the torch and sweated the threaded connection.

Is he looking at problems down the road?

Only a moron would do that.

Short. Direct. Accurate.

R

On Mon, 07 Feb 2011 10:37:21 -0500, LSMFT wrote:

Only a moron would do that.

Advice at Home Depot is cheap.

On Feb 7, 8:11*pm, Oren wrote:
On Mon, 07 Feb 2011 10:37:21 -0500, LSMFT wrote:
Only a moron would do that.

Advice at Home Depot is cheap.

If the guy who did the, err, plumbing work? got advice from Home
Depot, it was from a guy standing outside and he didn't understand
Spanish.

R

On Mon, 7 Feb 2011 17:55:39 -0800 (PST), RicodJour
wrote:

On Feb 7, 8:11*pm, Oren wrote:
On Mon, 07 Feb 2011 10:37:21 -0500, LSMFT wrote:
Only a moron would do that.

Advice at Home Depot is cheap.

If the guy who did the, err, plumbing work? got advice from Home
Depot, it was from a guy standing outside and he didn't understand
Spanish.

R

Comprende.

Stormin Mormon wrote:
In this thread, I've not seen anyone who thinks the OP used
teflon tape or pipe dope. If he had, there wouldn't be a
leak.

I've had plenty of leaks when using tape. Mostly, I suppose, when I didn't reef
on it nearly hard enough.

My old boss uses teflon tape, and Rectorseal #5 on top of
the teflon tape. Seldom has leaks.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"Bob F" wrote in message
...
Stormin Mormon wrote:
In this thread, I've not seen anyone who thinks the OP
used
teflon tape or pipe dope. If he had, there wouldn't be a
leak.

I've had plenty of leaks when using tape. Mostly, I suppose,
when I didn't reef
on it nearly hard enough.

In article ,
Stormin Mormon wrote:
My old boss uses teflon tape, and Rectorseal #5 on top of
the teflon tape. Seldom has leaks.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org

Using one or the other is adequate, using both is just a waste of time and
materials.




--
The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation
with the average voter. (Winston Churchill)

Larry Wasserman - Baltimore Maryland - lwasserm(a)sdf. lonestar. org

On 2/9/2011 3:58 PM, Stormin Mormon wrote:
My old boss uses teflon tape, and Rectorseal #5 on top of
the teflon tape. Seldom has leaks.


I use either one and rarely have a leak. I prefer the Teflon pipe dope
for plumbing and gas and Leak Lock for everything else. Small gas lines
and refrigeration connections will get Leak Lock or its equivalent.

TDD

That may work for you. I've found that Teflon tape
plus rectorseal works well for me.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"Larry W" wrote in message
...


Using one or the other is adequate, using both is just a
waste of time and
materials.

I've heard that the white teflon thread dope gets brittle
and leaks, after a few years. Could be an old, bad design.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"The Daring Dufas" wrote in
message ...
On 2/9/2011 3:58 PM, Stormin Mormon wrote:
My old boss uses teflon tape, and Rectorseal #5 on top of
the teflon tape. Seldom has leaks.


I use either one and rarely have a leak. I prefer the Teflon
pipe dope
for plumbing and gas and Leak Lock for everything else.
Small gas lines
and refrigeration connections will get Leak Lock or its
equivalent.

TDD

On 2/10/2011 8:20 AM, Stormin Mormon wrote:
I've heard that the white teflon thread dope gets brittle
and leaks, after a few years. Could be an old, bad design.


I've seen white pipe dope do that but not Teflon pipe dope.
The old white pipe dope contains lead as I remember.

TDD

On Feb 10, 9:29*am, The Daring Dufas
wrote:
On 2/10/2011 8:20 AM, Stormin Mormon wrote:

I've heard that the white teflon thread dope gets brittle
and leaks, after a few years. Could be an old, bad design.

I've seen white pipe dope do that but not Teflon pipe dope.
The old white pipe dope contains lead as I remember.

Okay, well that settles it then.
To make a durable threaded joint you should apply, in reverse order of
application:
Rectumseal
teflon tape
white pipe dope with lead
oakum

Some people take the belt and suspenders approach. I take the belt,
suspenders, girdle and staples approach. It makes me feel secure.

R

On 2/10/2011 8:46 AM, RicodJour wrote:
On Feb 10, 9:29 am, The Daring
wrote:
On 2/10/2011 8:20 AM, Stormin Mormon wrote:

I've heard that the white teflon thread dope gets brittle
and leaks, after a few years. Could be an old, bad design.

I've seen white pipe dope do that but not Teflon pipe dope.
The old white pipe dope contains lead as I remember.

Okay, well that settles it then.
To make a durable threaded joint you should apply, in reverse order of
application:
Rectumseal
teflon tape
white pipe dope with lead
oakum

Some people take the belt and suspenders approach. I take the belt,
suspenders, girdle and staples approach. It makes me feel secure.

R

You left out arc welding. :-)

TDD

Well, that's probably it. Thanks for the further info.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"The Daring Dufas" wrote in
message ...
On 2/10/2011 8:20 AM, Stormin Mormon wrote:
I've heard that the white teflon thread dope gets brittle
and leaks, after a few years. Could be an old, bad design.


I've seen white pipe dope do that but not Teflon pipe dope.
The old white pipe dope contains lead as I remember.

TDD

Missed the duct tape, and silicone caulk. Wrapped in baling
wire, to be sure.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"RicodJour" wrote in message
...

Okay, well that settles it then.
To make a durable threaded joint you should apply, in
reverse order of
application:
Rectumseal
teflon tape
white pipe dope with lead
oakum

Some people take the belt and suspenders approach. I take
the belt,
suspenders, girdle and staples approach. It makes me feel
secure.

R

On Thu, 10 Feb 2011 09:19:06 -0500, "Stormin Mormon"
wrote:

That may work for you. I've found that Teflon tape
plus rectorseal works well for me.


One good rule of thumb - "don't sweat the small stuff"

I've used teflon tape for everything and still do and will continue.
It isn't the tape thats giving people problems, it's the crumby NPTs
(national pipe thread) , made mostly in you know where.
I have used tape on 1/4 - 1 inch OD fittings that held pressure of 7000
psi never leaked because the threads were made with precision.tooling.
I just finished some home plumbing work on 1/2 in ball valve and every one
leaked, yep made in you know where.
Just cant win nowadays

"The Daring Dufas" wrote in message
...
On 2/10/2011 8:20 AM, Stormin Mormon wrote:
I've heard that the white teflon thread dope gets brittle
and leaks, after a few years. Could be an old, bad design.


I've seen white pipe dope do that but not Teflon pipe dope.
The old white pipe dope contains lead as I remember.

TDD

We need a drum and cybal to acnowledge that. bah-DAH-bing!

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


wrote in message
...
On Thu, 10 Feb 2011 09:19:06 -0500, "Stormin Mormon"
wrote:

That may work for you. I've found that Teflon tape
plus rectorseal works well for me.


One good rule of thumb - "don't sweat the small stuff"

"Stormin Mormon" wrote in news:ij10a6
:

Missed the duct tape, and silicone caulk. Wrapped in baling
wire, to be sure.


Yes, I was severely OFFENDED not seeing duct tape as the capper.

This being usenet, I regret we are unable to apologize. My
convention and protocol, it is required that I flame you,
now. Stand by, while I study how to do this.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"Red Green" wrote in message
...
"Stormin Mormon" wrote
in news:ij10a6
:

Missed the duct tape, and silicone caulk. Wrapped in
baling
wire, to be sure.


Yes, I was severely OFFENDED not seeing duct tape as the
capper.

On Feb 6, 10:02*pm, "Ed Pawlowski" wrote:
?
"Larry W" wrote

He got everything installed and sweated but when he turned the water
on, it leaked at one of the threaded fittings. He looked at the
situation, realized he couldn't tighten the connection since
everything else was soldered in place, so he took the easy way out.

He grabbed the torch and sweated the threaded connection.

Is he looking at problems down the road?

I don't think he'll have any problems until the time comes to take it
apart, but I sure am curious as to how he cleaned and fluxed that joint
after it had been screwed together, and also how the flux reacted with
the pipe dope or pipe tape.

Sounds like he did none of that. *My guess is that he has solder holding
just at the lip, not inside the joint. *I doubt he'd have a catastrophic
failure, but certainly could stat dripping soon.

We have a winner here. In the situation as described, the threaded
connection should have had teflon tape or joint compound and it was
already
made up and not taken apart again. If those are present, it can't be
soldered
properly. And if they aren't present, there is still no way to
properly clean the
connection or get flux in there without taking it apart.

Aside from all that, let's assume you tried to do this from scratch.
First, you
couldn't clean it well to remove oxide because of the threads being
present.
Second, in a slip fitting, meant to be soldered, the solder is drawn
in by
wicking action and gets sucked into the space through the whole slip
fitting where the parts meet. With a threaded connection, at best it
the
solder would probably get in only a thread or two deep. Could it be
enough so that it forms a seal and the rest of the threaded connection
supplies the mechanical strentgh so that it works? Yes, but it isn't
the
right way to do things, particularly if it's a place behind a shower
where
access later could be a headache.