On Feb 1, 8:37*am, "Robert Green" wrote:
wrote in message

...

On Mon, 31 Jan 2011 15:26:45 -0500, "Robert Green"
wrote:

stuff snipped

When's the last time you saw a car battery with individual OR
removeable caps?????

Yesterday, when I checked the condition of both my car batteries in
anticipation of the coming big freeze. *Perhaps things are different in the
Great White Way. *My battery kit contains a small bottle of sulfuric acid, a
larger bottle of distilled water, a voltmeter and a "turkey baster"
hydrometer to test the specific gravity of the battery fluid.

--
Bobby G.


Exactly. I have a Bosch car battery in my car, installed last year,
that
has caps on the cells too.

The other thing that just isn't so is this:

"The common high output deap cycle lead acid cell today is the
starved
eletrolyte AGM battery, which can be shipped by air and is not
considered as "hazardous material" when it comes to transporting or
handling."

True AGM are one type that is available, but this implies they are the
whole market or that it would be uncommon to find a deep cycle that
isn't AGM. In the marine market there are flooded cell deep cycle
marine batteries that are widely used. They are less expensive than
AGM and I would expect there are lots of other applications they are
used in for similar reasons.

On Feb 1, 7:54*am, jamesgangnc wrote:
On Jan 31, 10:31*pm, wrote:

Tegger wrote:
Why not simply purchase a computer Uninterruptible Power Supply (UPS)?

Yeah thought of that

But do they come in capacities capable of running a
week with small to moderate loads for lighting and
such?

You ae not going to run anything for a week off of a battery you can
carry. *Batteries as a backup power source are very limited. *Enough
lithium batteries to be of any use will cost a small fortune.

If you need a week you need a generator.

I tend to agree. But, it all depends on what his definition of "small
to
moderate loads" is. If it's lighting a small 12V lamp for 10 mins at
a
time a few times a day and charging his cell phone via USB, then it
could last more than a week. On the other hand, for most emergency
power for home use, you'd want to also run more, like the
refrigerator,
more lights, possibly the furnace, etc.

I can tell you with my cabin cruiser it had two dual purpose marine
batteries and you could pretty much drain them in less than 24 hours
of reasonable use. That included just lighting, running the
refrigerator
bathoom fan, radio, water pump, etc.

He should start by putting together by determining the running current
for all the loads and how long they each will be used. Then he'll
know
the required AmpHours and what size battery range he needs.

On Jan 30, 11:59*pm, wrote:
I've been wanting to buy/use a marine battery as a 1vdc
power source for emergencies such as ice storms etc

Thing is I don't know if there exists a "box" that will
contain he battery yet allow USB and 12vdc "ports" to
be obtained from it?

Bottom line...does there exist a "box" that will hold a
heavy battery such as this yet maybe have internal
connections for USB charging ports and still allow hook
up of 12vdc car "trouble" lights for home lighting?

Battery MUST be forever on a charger, like a trickle charger but after
a few years it will go bad.....

Marine batteries have short lives and short warranties.

Your probably better off to buy a new battery for your vehicle and use
the old vehicle battery for your back up needs. this costs less and
works well.

Jim Elbrecht wrote:

What are proposing to power? How long are you guessing the
emergency will last? How often will you need to supply emergency
power? Will you see it coming?

Last maybe 4 days

Use for LED lighting MAINLY

and powering small electronic devices and recharging
those devices such as cell phones, netbook etc

I realize it would be impossible to do much more than
that with batteries

Tegger wrote:

A whole week? I think a marine battery won't last two days with what you
plan to do with it. Think of what happens when you leave your 55W car
headlights on overnight.

lighting would be very high efficiency type... CFL
based or LED based only

On Feb 1, 10:30*am, wrote:
Tegger wrote:
A whole week? I think a marine battery won't last two days with what you
plan to do with it. Think of what happens when you leave your 55W car
headlights on overnight.

lighting would be very high efficiency type... CFL
based or LED based only

Get a car battery and try it but I still think you will be
disapointed. I've seen things as simple as leaving an interior light
on overnight drain a battery to where it would no longer start the
car. I have a group 29 dual purpose bvattery in my boat just to deal
with sitting and running the radio. And I still limit that to a few
hours. A group 29 battery weighs about 60lbs.

On 1/31/2011 10:26 AM, zek wrote:
On Jan 30, 11:59 pm, wrote:
I've been wanting to buy/use a marine battery as a 1vdc
power source for emergencies such as ice storms etc

Thing is I don't know if there exists a "box" that will
contain he battery yet allow USB and 12vdc "ports" to
be obtained from it?

Bottom line...does there exist a "box" that will hold a
heavy battery such as this yet maybe have internal
connections for USB charging ports and still allow hook
up of 12vdc car "trouble" lights for home lighting?

I don't know why you need 1 volt supply.

A "marine" battery is one with a carrying strap. It does NOT have
to be deep discharge.

greg

Hmmmm? Funny, the car battery I put in my garden tractor has a strap.
It's not a marine battery.

On Jan 30, 11:59*pm, wrote:
I've been wanting to buy/use a marine battery as a 1vdc
power source for emergencies such as ice storms etc

Thing is I don't know if there exists a "box" that will
contain he battery yet allow USB and 12vdc "ports" to
be obtained from it?

Bottom line...does there exist a "box" that will hold a
heavy battery such as this yet maybe have internal
connections for USB charging ports and still allow hook
up of 12vdc car "trouble" lights for home lighting?

I bought a doer one time that was for jumping cars. Held a good sized
battery , buit in charger, a couple of cigarette lighter type plugs
and jumper cables. This was all mounted on wheels with a handle so you
could move it around Think it cost about $100 USD with battery. I used
it for years until I let it freeze and crack the battery. BTW dont buy
a Marine battery...they are just Deep Cycle with a picture of a boat
on the side. You pay a lot extra for that picture.. I have a USB
extender(4 ports) that uses a 12VDC wall wart to power it. I bet you
could hook it up to one of the cig jacks and make it do what you want.
Figure you want to power some cell phones, iPod and such.

Jimmie

On Tue, 1 Feb 2011 02:01:24 +0000 (UTC), Tegger
wrote:

wrote in :

I've been wanting to buy/use a marine battery as a 1vdc
power source for emergencies such as ice storms etc

Thing is I don't know if there exists a "box" that will
contain he battery yet allow USB and 12vdc "ports" to
be obtained from it?

Bottom line...does there exist a "box" that will hold a
heavy battery such as this yet maybe have internal
connections for USB charging ports and still allow hook
up of 12vdc car "trouble" lights for home lighting?




Why not simply purchase a computer Uninterruptible Power Supply (UPS)?

It will probably cost you less than trying to cobble up something from bits
here and there. And it will come with USB and 120VDC outlets, so you can
charge your iPod as well as power ordinary light bulbs to see the iPod by.

UPSs are available at many price-points with many different runtimes.

APC is a major manufacturer of good-quality UPSs.
http://www.apc.com/products/category.cfm?id=13&segmentID=1

I've got two APC UPSs: a Back-UPS RS 1500, and Back-UPS ES 550.
I often work from home, and I NEED stuff to stay up in the face of the
flaky power in my area.
Just remember, NOT ALL UPS devices will start without being connected
to power. Many will NOT cold start.

On Mon, 31 Jan 2011 19:31:26 -0800 (PST), Mark
wrote:


I've been wanting to buy/use a marine battery as a 1vdc
power source for emergencies such as ice storms etc


I know this will start a flame war, and I'm not going to respond to it
but...

if you want this battery only for EMERGENCY power meaning that you are
going to deep discharge it once or twice a year, then you are better
off cost wise buying a standard car battery not a deep discharge
battery. Deep discharge batterys ARE needed for applications where
they will be deeply discharged over and over. A regular car battery
will survive just fine a few dozen deep discharges. Since there is a
large cost savings, you can probably buy two regular car batteries for
the price of one deep discharge.

In any case, as was said, the important thing is not to over or under
charge it. Even a small unregulated charger if left on long enough
will overcharge the battery and shorten it's life.

Mark


A regular car battery is said to loose 50% of it's lifespan every time
it excedes 80% depth of discharge.
That means running it dead TWICE cuts it's expected lifetime to 25%.

On Mon, 31 Jan 2011 21:31:35 -0600, wrote:

Tegger wrote:

Why not simply purchase a computer Uninterruptible Power Supply (UPS)?

Yeah thought of that

But do they come in capacities capable of running a
week with small to moderate loads for lighting and
such?
No, and generally speaking a 80ah battery won't do that either.

On Mon, 31 Jan 2011 23:19:35 -0800 (PST), harry
wrote:

On Feb 1, 1:51Â*am, wrote:
On Mon, 31 Jan 2011 19:24:39 -0500, "Stormin Mormon"

wrote:
Hmm. Of course, we'd like to know why not. Against the local
neighborhood association rules?

Â*LKots of places the noise and fumes make use of a fuel-powered
generator impossible or impractical.

You can buy generators that are virtually silent.
But unless it is a fuel cell, it will still stink.

On Tue, 01 Feb 2011 06:45:52 -0500, "Percival P. Cassidy"
wrote:

On 01/31/11 08:50 pm, wrote:

Catalitic caps can be had for GC2H batteries - they reduce the water
loss by better than 90%. I had 8 GC2H batteries in the old Fiat
ElectraMobile

Where are such caps available? Google turned up just a few references to
such things but no links to vendors.

Perce
I bought mine over 30 years ago from the local battery wholesaler
that sold me the batteries.

On Tue, 1 Feb 2011 08:37:56 -0500, "Robert Green"
wrote:

wrote in message
.. .
On Mon, 31 Jan 2011 15:26:45 -0500, "Robert Green"
wrote:

stuff snipped

When's the last time you saw a car battery with individual OR
removeable caps?????

Yesterday, when I checked the condition of both my car batteries in
anticipation of the coming big freeze. Perhaps things are different in the
Great White Way. My battery kit contains a small bottle of sulfuric acid, a
larger bottle of distilled water, a voltmeter and a "turkey baster"
hydrometer to test the specific gravity of the battery fluid.
What you got? a 55 chevy??

On Feb 1, 10:26*am, wrote:
Jim Elbrecht wrote:
What are proposing to power? * *How long are you guessing the
emergency will last? * * How often will you need to supply emergency
power? * Will you see it coming?

Last maybe 4 days

Use for LED lighting MAINLY

and powering small electronic devices and recharging
those devices such as cell phones, netbook etc

I realize it would be impossible to do much more than
that with batteries

connect inverter onto car battery, let vehicle idle.

its quiet, no battery to maintain and fail, fuel is in the vehicles
tank. its a win win win....

On Feb 1, 2:32*pm, " wrote:
On Feb 1, 10:26*am, wrote:

Jim Elbrecht wrote:
What are proposing to power? * *How long are you guessing the
emergency will last? * * How often will you need to supply emergency
power? * Will you see it coming?

Last maybe 4 days

Use for LED lighting MAINLY

and powering small electronic devices and recharging
those devices such as cell phones, netbook etc

I realize it would be impossible to do much more than
that with batteries

connect inverter onto car battery, let vehicle idle.

its quiet, no battery to maintain and fail, fuel is in the vehicles
tank. its a win win win....

plus with a big enough inverter like 3000 watts you can run a big load
occasionally, like a furnace.

some people get a old UPS with dead battery, and hook it to their
vehicle with it running, cheap way to get back up power

On Feb 1, 2:36*pm, " wrote:
On Feb 1, 2:32*pm, " wrote:





On Feb 1, 10:26*am, wrote:

Jim Elbrecht wrote:
What are proposing to power? * *How long are you guessing the
emergency will last? * * How often will you need to supply emergency
power? * Will you see it coming?

Last maybe 4 days

Use for LED lighting MAINLY

and powering small electronic devices and recharging
those devices such as cell phones, netbook etc

I realize it would be impossible to do much more than
that with batteries

connect inverter onto car battery, let vehicle idle.

its quiet, no battery to maintain and fail, fuel is in the vehicles
tank. its a win win win....

plus with a big enough inverter like 3000 watts you can run a big load
occasionally, like a furnace.

some people get a old UPS with dead battery, and hook it to their
vehicle with it running, cheap way to get back up power- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

3000 watts at 12 volts is 250 amps. You will never run that off a
car. Car alternators max out at 60 to 90 amps.

wrote in message
news
On Mon, 31 Jan 2011 19:31:26 -0800 (PST), Mark
wrote:


I've been wanting to buy/use a marine battery as a 1vdc
power source for emergencies such as ice storms etc


I know this will start a flame war, and I'm not going to respond to it
but...

if you want this battery only for EMERGENCY power meaning that you are
going to deep discharge it once or twice a year, then you are better
off cost wise buying a standard car battery not a deep discharge
battery. Deep discharge batterys ARE needed for applications where
they will be deeply discharged over and over. A regular car battery
will survive just fine a few dozen deep discharges. Since there is a
large cost savings, you can probably buy two regular car batteries for
the price of one deep discharge.

In any case, as was said, the important thing is not to over or under
charge it. Even a small unregulated charger if left on long enough
will overcharge the battery and shorten it's life.

Mark


A regular car battery is said to loose 50% of it's lifespan every time
it excedes 80% depth of discharge.
That means running it dead TWICE cuts it's expected lifetime to 25%.



I don't know who said that, but it just isn't true. I use a trolling motor
on my boat, and have run the battery down to nearly nothing many times.
After a trickle charge for a day or two, it is ready to go again and
performs as well as before, time and time again, usually for three or four
years.

Besides, the OP said a "marine battery", and you said a "car battery". Two
related and similar, but slightly different animals.

Bob-tx

On 02/01/11 02:36 pm, wrote:

some people get a old UPS with dead battery, and hook it to their
vehicle with it running, cheap way to get back up power

I've seen suggestions that many UPSes will overheat (and even catch
fire) that way: no active cooling because it's assumed that they will
not get too warm before the original internal battery runs flat.

Perce

Ideally, you can wire the trolling battery in parallel with
the internal cell.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


wrote in message
...
Tegger wrote:

Why not simply purchase a computer Uninterruptible Power
Supply (UPS)?

Yeah thought of that

But do they come in capacities capable of running a
week with small to moderate loads for lighting and
such?

What do you want to power, and for how long? The trolling
battery provides a reasonable bit of power, for the price.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


wrote in message
...

Actually I am now thinking abt FORGETTING a deep
discharge battery... and instead basing some kind of
system off portable rechargeable drill batteries that
are LI-ON

Well, for that. I'd figure a couple LED lights, batteries,
and a car jumper pack for the car style cell phone charger.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


wrote in message
...

Last maybe 4 days

Use for LED lighting MAINLY

and powering small electronic devices and recharging
those devices such as cell phones, netbook etc

I realize it would be impossible to do much more than
that with batteries

The teenager with the purple spiky hair. The one that just
drove off, in your car. Thanks you.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


wrote in message
...

connect inverter onto car battery, let vehicle idle.

its quiet, no battery to maintain and fail, fuel is in the
vehicles
tank. its a win win win....

On Tue, 1 Feb 2011 11:32:46 -0800 (PST), "
wrote:

On Feb 1, 10:26Â*am, wrote:
Jim Elbrecht wrote:
What are proposing to power? Â* Â*How long are you guessing the
emergency will last? Â* Â* How often will you need to supply emergency
power? Â* Will you see it coming?

Last maybe 4 days

Use for LED lighting MAINLY

and powering small electronic devices and recharging
those devices such as cell phones, netbook etc

I realize it would be impossible to do much more than
that with batteries

connect inverter onto car battery, let vehicle idle.

its quiet, no battery to maintain and fail, fuel is in the vehicles
tank. its a win win win....
And EXTREMELY innefficient - not to mention illegal in many areas.
Maximum 3 minutes idle time.

On Tue, 1 Feb 2011 11:36:40 -0800 (PST), "
wrote:

On Feb 1, 2:32Â*pm, " wrote:
On Feb 1, 10:26Â*am, wrote:

Jim Elbrecht wrote:
What are proposing to power? Â* Â*How long are you guessing the
emergency will last? Â* Â* How often will you need to supply emergency
power? Â* Will you see it coming?

Last maybe 4 days

Use for LED lighting MAINLY

and powering small electronic devices and recharging
those devices such as cell phones, netbook etc

I realize it would be impossible to do much more than
that with batteries

connect inverter onto car battery, let vehicle idle.

its quiet, no battery to maintain and fail, fuel is in the vehicles
tank. its a win win win....

plus with a big enough inverter like 3000 watts you can run a big load
occasionally, like a furnace.

some people get a old UPS with dead battery, and hook it to their
vehicle with it running, cheap way to get back up power
Except anything big enough to run the furnace will NOT run on 12
volts. My 1kva units are 36 and 42 volts.
I do have an old 1kva inverter from a BELL service truck that runs off
12 volts and has a remote start feature (comes on when the load is
switched on)

On Tue, 1 Feb 2011 12:49:03 -0800 (PST), jamesgangnc
wrote:

On Feb 1, 2:36Â*pm, " wrote:
On Feb 1, 2:32Â*pm, " wrote:





On Feb 1, 10:26Â*am, wrote:

Jim Elbrecht wrote:
What are proposing to power? Â* Â*How long are you guessing the
emergency will last? Â* Â* How often will you need to supply emergency
power? Â* Will you see it coming?

Last maybe 4 days

Use for LED lighting MAINLY

and powering small electronic devices and recharging
those devices such as cell phones, netbook etc

I realize it would be impossible to do much more than
that with batteries

connect inverter onto car battery, let vehicle idle.

its quiet, no battery to maintain and fail, fuel is in the vehicles
tank. its a win win win....

plus with a big enough inverter like 3000 watts you can run a big load
occasionally, like a furnace.

some people get a old UPS with dead battery, and hook it to their
vehicle with it running, cheap way to get back up power- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

3000 watts at 12 volts is 250 amps. You will never run that off a
car. Car alternators max out at 60 to 90 amps.
And 3kva UPS units are generally 36 or 48 volt - some even higher.

On Tue, 1 Feb 2011 15:01:41 -0600, "Bob-tx" No Spam no contact
wrote:



wrote in message
news
On Mon, 31 Jan 2011 19:31:26 -0800 (PST), Mark
wrote:


I've been wanting to buy/use a marine battery as a 1vdc
power source for emergencies such as ice storms etc


I know this will start a flame war, and I'm not going to respond to it
but...

if you want this battery only for EMERGENCY power meaning that you are
going to deep discharge it once or twice a year, then you are better
off cost wise buying a standard car battery not a deep discharge
battery. Deep discharge batterys ARE needed for applications where
they will be deeply discharged over and over. A regular car battery
will survive just fine a few dozen deep discharges. Since there is a
large cost savings, you can probably buy two regular car batteries for
the price of one deep discharge.

In any case, as was said, the important thing is not to over or under
charge it. Even a small unregulated charger if left on long enough
will overcharge the battery and shorten it's life.

Mark


A regular car battery is said to loose 50% of it's lifespan every time
it excedes 80% depth of discharge.
That means running it dead TWICE cuts it's expected lifetime to 25%.



I don't know who said that, but it just isn't true. I use a trolling motor
on my boat, and have run the battery down to nearly nothing many times.
After a trickle charge for a day or two, it is ready to go again and
performs as well as before, time and time again, usually for three or four
years.

Besides, the OP said a "marine battery", and you said a "car battery". Two
related and similar, but slightly different animals.

Bob-tx



No - I was responding to the
"if you want this battery only for EMERGENCY power meaning that you are
going to deep discharge it once or twice a year, then you are better
off cost wise buying a standard car battery not a deep discharge
battery. "

On Tue, 01 Feb 2011 19:43:41 -0500, "Percival P. Cassidy"
wrote:

On 02/01/11 02:36 pm, wrote:

some people get a old UPS with dead battery, and hook it to their
vehicle with it running, cheap way to get back up power

I've seen suggestions that many UPSes will overheat (and even catch
fire) that way: no active cooling because it's assumed that they will
not get too warm before the original internal battery runs flat.

Perce
Never seen it happen, and particularly with anything big enough to be
of any value (for any significant load)they have active cooling.

On Feb 1, 9:56*pm, wrote:
On Tue, 1 Feb 2011 11:36:40 -0800 (PST), "





wrote:
On Feb 1, 2:32*pm, " wrote:
On Feb 1, 10:26*am, wrote:

Jim Elbrecht wrote:
What are proposing to power? * *How long are you guessing the
emergency will last? * * How often will you need to supply emergency
power? * Will you see it coming?

Last maybe 4 days

Use for LED lighting MAINLY

and powering small electronic devices and recharging
those devices such as cell phones, netbook etc

I realize it would be impossible to do much more than
that with batteries

connect inverter onto car battery, let vehicle idle.

its quiet, no battery to maintain and fail, fuel is in the vehicles
tank. its a win win win....

plus with a big enough inverter like 3000 watts you can run a big load
occasionally, like a furnace.

some people get a old UPS with dead battery, and hook it to their
vehicle with it running, cheap way to get back up power

*Except anything big enough to run the furnace will NOT run on 12
volts. My 1kva units are 36 and 42 volts.

Hmmm, I thought you were the guy that has the furnace with an ECM
blower that only uses as much electricity as a 100W bulb. If that's
true, then your furnace should be capable of being run off a UPS
connected to a car battery. The blower is the only load that amounts
to anything. The inital startup current for a couple
seconds will be larger, but still should be within the capability of
an inverter powered off a car battery.....

In article ,
Jim Elbrecht wrote:

There are reasons that cars use lead acid and drills use li-ion.

www.teslamotors.com

On 01/30/11 11:59 pm, wrote:

I've been wanting to buy/use a marine battery as a 1vdc
power source for emergencies such as ice storms etc

Thing is I don't know if there exists a "box" that will
contain he battery yet allow USB and 12vdc "ports" to
be obtained from it?

Bottom line...does there exist a "box" that will hold a
heavy battery such as this yet maybe have internal
connections for USB charging ports and still allow hook
up of 12vdc car "trouble" lights for home lighting?

Anybody use an automatic filling system for their batteries? E.g.,
Pro-Fill or AquaPro?

Perce

On Wed, 2 Feb 2011 07:17:55 -0800 (PST), wrote:

On Feb 1, 9:56Â*pm, wrote:
On Tue, 1 Feb 2011 11:36:40 -0800 (PST), "





wrote:
On Feb 1, 2:32Â*pm, " wrote:
On Feb 1, 10:26Â*am, wrote:

Jim Elbrecht wrote:
What are proposing to power? Â* Â*How long are you guessing the
emergency will last? Â* Â* How often will you need to supply emergency
power? Â* Will you see it coming?

Last maybe 4 days

Use for LED lighting MAINLY

and powering small electronic devices and recharging
those devices such as cell phones, netbook etc

I realize it would be impossible to do much more than
that with batteries

connect inverter onto car battery, let vehicle idle.

its quiet, no battery to maintain and fail, fuel is in the vehicles
tank. its a win win win....

plus with a big enough inverter like 3000 watts you can run a big load
occasionally, like a furnace.

some people get a old UPS with dead battery, and hook it to their
vehicle with it running, cheap way to get back up power

Â*Except anything big enough to run the furnace will NOT run on 12
volts. My 1kva units are 36 and 42 volts.

Hmmm, I thought you were the guy that has the furnace with an ECM
blower that only uses as much electricity as a 100W bulb. If that's
true, then your furnace should be capable of being run off a UPS
connected to a car battery. The blower is the only load that amounts
to anything. The inital startup current for a couple
seconds will be larger, but still should be within the capability of
an inverter powered off a car battery.....


Go crawl back under your bridge.
Your reading comprehension, as well as your evident technical knowlege
are both at about a grade 3 level, but your aggravation factor is over
the moon.

The ecm blower in heat mode draws about (up to) 6.5 amps,plus the
inducer motor. (that's the numbers from my furnace - your current draw
may vary)

Not sure what the hot surface ignitor draws, but that is not an issue
because it definitely draws less than the blower, and is never
energized when the blower is in the "heat" mode.

If the furnace draws 7.5 amps at 120 volts (nominal) the power draw is
900 watts.. Assuming the inverter is 98% efficient that is a draw of
about 76 amps from a 12 volt battery. And getting back to your
abysimal reading comprehension, not very many 1kva UPS units, which is
what was I was responding to, work off of 12 volts. Any that do are
"bottom feeder" models that would not stand up to long-term use at
full load.

If you have a AC motor blower the starting current of the blower is
generally well over 150% of nameplate current - so let's say you need
an "inverter" that can handle 1350 va motor starting power, with a
battery current exceding 100 amps on startup.
I am not aware of a 1.5kva UPS of any description that uses a 12 volt
battery back.

And if you could find such a beast - and one that could run more than
20 minutes or so at full load without overheating, your average
automotive battery would be below 80% depth of discharge in
significantly under an hour of steady use.

On Wed, 02 Feb 2011 08:17:37 -0800, Smitty Two
wrote:

In article ,
Jim Elbrecht wrote:

There are reasons that cars use lead acid and drills use li-ion.

www.teslamotors.com
The most compelling reason is COST.

On Feb 2, 9:58*pm, wrote:
On Wed, 2 Feb 2011 07:17:55 -0800 (PST), wrote:
On Feb 1, 9:56*pm, wrote:
On Tue, 1 Feb 2011 11:36:40 -0800 (PST), "

wrote:
On Feb 1, 2:32*pm, " wrote:
On Feb 1, 10:26*am, wrote:

Jim Elbrecht wrote:
What are proposing to power? * *How long are you guessing the
emergency will last? * * How often will you need to supply emergency
power? * Will you see it coming?

Last maybe 4 days

Use for LED lighting MAINLY

and powering small electronic devices and recharging
those devices such as cell phones, netbook etc

I realize it would be impossible to do much more than
that with batteries

connect inverter onto car battery, let vehicle idle.

its quiet, no battery to maintain and fail, fuel is in the vehicles
tank. its a win win win....

plus with a big enough inverter like 3000 watts you can run a big load
occasionally, like a furnace.

some people get a old UPS with dead battery, and hook it to their
vehicle with it running, cheap way to get back up power

*Except anything big enough to run the furnace will NOT run on 12
volts. My 1kva units are 36 and 42 volts.

Hmmm, I thought you were the guy that has the furnace with an ECM
blower that only uses as much electricity as a 100W bulb. *If that's
true, then your furnace should be capable of being run off a UPS
connected to a car battery. *The blower is the only load that amounts
to anything. * The inital startup current for a couple
seconds will be larger, but still should be within the capability of
an inverter powered off a car battery.....

Go crawl back under your bridge.
Your reading comprehension, as well as your evident technical knowlege
are both at about a grade 3 level, but your aggravation factor is over
the moon.

The ecm blower in heat mode draws about (up to) 6.5 amps,plus the
inducer motor. (that's the numbers from my furnace - your current draw
may vary)

Yeah, forgive me for being confused. You've spent so much time
telling
us how that wondeful ECM blower runs 24/7 and only draws 100Watts.....
I guess you forgot the part where that's only in fan only mode, where
the
fan barely moves the air. The other part of that 24/7, when the
furnace
is actually heating, it draws 8 times that. But wait, we're supposed
to
use a two stage furnace that spends a lot of time on lower output
heating
so that furnace is firing a lot of the time. Some would say it
should be
firing all the time during the coldest days. So there goes that
miracle
ECM blower that only uses 100W, 24/7.


Not sure what the hot surface ignitor draws, but that is not an issue
because it definitely draws less than the blower, and is never
energized when the blower is in the "heat" mode.

If the furnace draws 7.5 amps at 120 volts (nominal) the power draw is
900 watts.. Assuming the inverter is 98% efficient that is a draw of
about 76 amps from a 12 volt battery. And getting back to your
abysimal reading comprehension, not very many 1kva UPS units, which is
what was I was responding to, work off of 12 volts. Any that do are
"bottom feeder" models that would not stand up to long-term use at
full load.

Uh huh, according to you.... Last time I checked the poster was
asking
about using a simple inverter, not a UPS. A full UPS was never a
requirement. But you do have a way of taking threads into your
own little world. But even playing by your rules, what's this,
which
I found in 2 mins with google?

http://www.ecodirect.com/Samlex-TN-1...-1500-112f.htm

Samlex TN-1500-112F, Off Grid Inverter, 1500 Watt, 12 Volt, Pure Sine
Wave, w/Solar Charge Controller/AC charger & Transfer Relay for UPS
function






If you have a AC motor blower the starting current of the blower is
generally well over 150% of nameplate current - so let's say you need
an "inverter" that can handle 1350 va motor starting power, with a
battery current exceding 100 amps on startup.
I am not aware of a 1.5kva UPS of any description that uses a 12 volt
battery back.

And if you could find such a beast - and one that could run more than
20 minutes or so at full load without overheating, your average
automotive battery would be below 80% depth of discharge in
significantly under an hour of steady use.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Pay attention. He didn't say he wanted to use an auto battery. The
question was about using a marine deep cycle battery. And you can
get deep cycle batteries that will supply 150AmpHr. Use a couple
of them and you have an hour or two of furnace run time.
Economical or practical compared to a generator? No. But
not totally out of the realm.

I know you think you Canadians are very smart up there. So, I'm
sure you'll like this source straight from Canada. They say you
can power a furnace with a battery/inverter:

http://www.cmhc-schl.gc.ca/en/co/maho/em/em_002.cfm


1A — Battery backup with inverter/charger for short blackouts of 12 –
48 hours: $2,350 Essential AC loads only. Furnace, sump pump, well
pump, fridge, plus efficient lights and small DC appliances.

Again, I'm not saying it's cost effective, or practical. I'd go with
a generator.
But it shows that once again, contrary to your shoot from the hip
comments, it can be done. BTW, have you gone down to the auto
parts store to see those batteries with the removable cell caps?