I posted a few days ago on relocating my HW heater to make more
living
space in my basement. I purchased a Kenmore (AO Smith) HW heater on
Friday and today I started piping the gas. It was a lot easier for me
to come off the Tee for my furnace than to use the existing gas line,
which will eventually be capped off and enclosed in the wall. You
can't see it in these pics, but the old gas drop is actually more to
the right of the old HW heater. Plus this also let me keep the old HW
heater runnning while I work on the new one. Here are some pics:
http://picasaweb.google.com/mikerock...eat=directlink

Is there anything wrong doing it like this?

?
"Mikepier" wrote
the existing gas line,
which will eventually be capped off and enclosed in the wall.
Is there anything wrong doing it like this?

I'm not sure about capping a gas pipe in a wall. I'd be afraid to do that
and get a gas buildup in there.

"Ed Pawlowski" wrote:

which will eventually be capped off and enclosed in the wall.
Is there anything wrong doing it like this?

I'm not sure about capping a gas pipe in a wall. I'd be afraid to do that
and get a gas buildup in there.

The other problem is that you should have a licensed plumber check your work for
code compliance or you will have a problem when it comes time to sell the house.
I'd be concerned that you have a large enough supply to run both the furnace and
HW heater at the same time.

On Jan 23, 12:32*am, Robert Neville wrote:
"Ed Pawlowski" wrote:
which will eventually be capped off and enclosed in the wall.
Is there anything wrong doing it like this?

I'm not sure about capping a gas pipe in a wall. *I'd be afraid to do that
and get a gas buildup in there.

The other problem is that you should have a licensed plumber check your work for
code compliance or you will have a problem when it comes time to sell the house.
I'd be concerned that you have a large enough supply to run both the furnace and
HW heater at the same time.

I looks like mine is hooked up and lots of other ones I've seen. The
only odd
thing that might cause someone to look twice at it is the extra long
stub
extending down just before the gas heater. Normally that stub is
about 6"
long.

On Jan 23, 7:58*am, wrote:
On Jan 23, 12:32*am, Robert Neville wrote:

"Ed Pawlowski" wrote:
which will eventually be capped off and enclosed in the wall.
Is there anything wrong doing it like this?

I'm not sure about capping a gas pipe in a wall. *I'd be afraid to do that
and get a gas buildup in there.

The other problem is that you should have a licensed plumber check your work for
code compliance or you will have a problem when it comes time to sell the house.
I'd be concerned that you have a large enough supply to run both the furnace and
HW heater at the same time.

I looks like mine is hooked up and lots of other ones I've seen. *The
only odd
thing that might cause someone to look twice at it is the extra long
stub
extending down just before the gas heater. * Normally that stub is
about 6"
long.

I extended it down to the floor so the pipe can be supported rather
than hang. I can always shorten later.

On Jan 23, 12:16*am, "Ed Pawlowski" wrote:
?
"Mikepier" wrote

*the existing gas line,
which will eventually be capped off and enclosed in the wall.
Is there anything wrong doing it like this?

I'm not sure about capping a gas pipe in a wall. *I'd be afraid to do that
and get a gas buildup in there.

There is a Tee at that point that continues on to feed my gas stove
and dryer. The only way to eliminate that Tee is to disconnect
everything from the kitchen on back, which is a lot of pipe and
fittings. So a cap or plug is the easiest solution. It would not be
buried entirely in the wall. I actually have to drop the ceiling a
little at that point due to the other pipes, so I could put in an
access door to get to it.

I'd be concerned that you have a large enough supply to run both the furnace and
HW heater at the same time.

Should not be a problem since that is what I had originally. The pipe
running across the ceiling is 1", then there is a 1"X3/4"X3/4" Tee.
One 3/4" drop comes by the furnace (which then Tee's to 1/2" to feed
the furnace). The other 3/4" went on to feed the old HW heater/dryer/
stove.
What I did was add another 3/4" tee by the furnace drop. Plus I am
eliminating the old HW heater.
So I'm not changing the size of pipe or adding on something else. The
volume of gas stays the same.

On Jan 22, 8:37*pm, Mikepier wrote:
I posted a few days ago on relocating my HW heater to make more
living
space in my basement. I purchased a Kenmore (AO Smith) HW heater on
Friday and today I started piping the gas. It was a lot easier for me
to come off the Tee for my furnace than to use the existing gas line,
which will eventually be capped off and enclosed in the wall. *You
can't see it in these pics, but the *old gas drop is actually more to
the right of the old HW heater. Plus this also let me keep the old HW
heater runnning while I work on the new one. Here are some pics:http://picasaweb.google.com/mikerock...eat=directlink

Is there anything wrong doing it like this?

Uniform Mechanical Code 805.1 An angle greater than 45 degrees from
the vertical is considered a horizontal run. The total horizontal run
of a vent plus the length of horizontal vent connector shall not
exceed 75 percent of the vertical height of the vent.

Uniform Mechanical Code 805.1 An angle greater than 45 degrees from
the vertical is considered a horizontal run. The total horizontal run
of a vent plus the length of horizontal vent connector shall not
exceed 75 percent of the vertical height of the vent.

I'm assuming you are talking about the flue pipe?
What issues do you see? The new HW heater is close to the chimney,
about 11'' away, and 6" down to the flue connector on the HW heater

On Jan 23, 9:53*am, Mikepier wrote:
Uniform Mechanical Code 805.1 An angle greater than 45 degrees from
the vertical is considered a horizontal run. The total horizontal run
of a vent plus the length of horizontal vent connector shall not
exceed 75 percent of the vertical height of the vent.

I'm assuming you are talking about the flue pipe?
What issues do you see? The new HW heater is close to the chimney,
about 11'' away, and 6" down to the flue connector on the HW heater

I don't think anyone knows what she's talking about either. That
vent run,
in terms of pitch, connection, etc looks like mine and dozens of
others I've
seen. Only thing that is different is whatever that rectangular
looking gizmo
is on the vent near the heater.

On Jan 23, 8:35*am, Mikepier wrote:
I'd be concerned that you have a large enough supply to run both the furnace and
HW heater at the same time.

Should not be a problem since that is what I had originally. The pipe
running across the ceiling is 1", then there is a 1"X3/4"X3/4" Tee.
One 3/4" drop comes by the furnace (which then Tee's to 1/2" to feed
the furnace). The other 3/4" went on to feed the old HW heater/dryer/
stove.
What I did was add another 3/4" tee by the furnace drop. Plus I am
eliminating the old HW heater.
So I'm not changing the size of pipe or adding on something else. The
volume of gas stays the same.

How old is that old water heater? The reason I'm asking is that
there's no draft hood on it. They have been required for some time
and that heater doesn't look ancient.

R

"Mikepier" wrote in message
...
I posted a few days ago on relocating my HW heater to make more
living
space in my basement. I purchased a Kenmore (AO Smith) HW heater on
Friday and today I started piping the gas. It was a lot easier for me
to come off the Tee for my furnace than to use the existing gas line,
which will eventually be capped off and enclosed in the wall. You
can't see it in these pics, but the old gas drop is actually more to
the right of the old HW heater. Plus this also let me keep the old HW
heater runnning while I work on the new one. Here are some pics:
http://picasaweb.google.com/mikerock...eat=directlink

Is there anything wrong doing it like this?

There might be. Without seeing what feeds what I can't give an honest
opinion.

Normally a 3/4" line feeds two 1/2" lines because there is a limit to how
much gas can flow through a given pipe size. By feeding both units from a
single line you may starve one or both units when they cycle on at the same
time.

The size of the pipe each unit needs is determined by the BTU input rating
of the device AND the length of the total pipe run.

You may want to gather more information and compare what you have and what
you need to the specs contained on this page:
http://www.gpta.net/Classes/Gas%20si...e%20Sizing.pdf


--
Colbyt
Please come visit http://www.househomerepair.com

On Jan 23, 8:26*am, Mikepier wrote:
On Jan 23, 7:58*am, wrote:



On Jan 23, 12:32*am, Robert Neville wrote:

"Ed Pawlowski" wrote:
which will eventually be capped off and enclosed in the wall.
Is there anything wrong doing it like this?

I'm not sure about capping a gas pipe in a wall. *I'd be afraid to do that
and get a gas buildup in there.

The other problem is that you should have a licensed plumber check your work for
code compliance or you will have a problem when it comes time to sell the house.
I'd be concerned that you have a large enough supply to run both the furnace and
HW heater at the same time.

I looks like mine is hooked up and lots of other ones I've seen. *The
only odd
thing that might cause someone to look twice at it is the extra long
stub
extending down just before the gas heater. * Normally that stub is
about 6"
long.

I extended it down to the floor so the pipe can be supported rather
than hang. I can always shorten later.


Proper support of gas piping is done with pipe hangers, NOT by
extending sections down to the floor to prop it up...

~~ Evan

?
"Evan" wrote

Proper support of gas piping is done with pipe hangers, NOT by
extending sections down to the floor to prop it up...

Mostly, but if it is not possible to use a hanger, it is allowed to use a
floor support. Given that a ceiling or joist can be 16' above a gas line
while the floor is 10" below, sometimes it just makes sense to put a cradle
in place.

RicodJour wrote:
....

How old is that old water heater? The reason I'm asking is that
there's no draft hood on it. They have been required for some time
and that heater doesn't look ancient.
....

"Required" by whom/where/what?

I just put in a replacement two months ago...

--

Robert Neville wrote:
"Ed Pawlowski" wrote:

which will eventually be capped off and enclosed in the wall.
Is there anything wrong doing it like this?

I'm not sure about capping a gas pipe in a wall. I'd be afraid to
do that and get a gas buildup in there.

The other problem is that you should have a licensed plumber check
your work for code compliance or you will have a problem when it
comes time to sell the house. I'd be concerned that you have a large
enough supply to run both the furnace and HW heater at the same time.

Unless his laws are different than mine, all he needs is the inspectors approval
of his work. No plumber need be involved.

Ed Pawlowski wrote:
....
"Evan" wrote

Proper support of gas piping is done with pipe hangers, NOT by
extending sections down to the floor to prop it up...

Mostly, but if it is not possible to use a hanger, it is allowed to use
a floor support. Given that a ceiling or joist can be 16' above a gas
line while the floor is 10" below, sometimes it just makes sense to put
a cradle in place.

However, the line in question is against a concrete wall where a single
hanger at the el where it heads to the heater would be the cat's meow...

--

On Jan 23, 1:05*pm, dpb wrote:
RicodJour wrote:

How old is that old water heater? *The reason I'm asking is that
there's no draft hood on it. *They have been required for some time
and that heater doesn't look ancient.

"Required" by whom/where/what?

Me/your house/yep.

I just put in a replacement two months ago...

At first I thought you were joking, but on second reading I can see
you're not. The draft hood comes standard already attached to the WH
around here. Yours doesn't?

My CodeCheck has the applicable requirements listed this way in the
Water Heaters section:
Draft hood/barometric damper in the same space as WH
IRC [1802.1, 2407.3] UBC {510.12.5}
Only 1 draft hood
IRC [2426.5] UBC {510.12.3}
Secure vent connector to draft hood & vent with screws or other
approved means
IRC [2427.10.7] UBC {510.10.7}

And some more on it:
http://www.checkthishouse.com/49/wat...vent-pipe.html

R

"Bob F" wrote:

Unless his laws are different than mine, all he needs is the inspectors approval
of his work. No plumber need be involved.

Yes, but the inspector can also red tag it and then he's going to be hurting.

On Sat, 22 Jan 2011 20:37:22 -0800 (PST), Mikepier
wrote:

I posted a few days ago on relocating my HW heater to make more
living
space in my basement. I purchased a Kenmore (AO Smith) HW heater on
Friday and today I started piping the gas. It was a lot easier for me
to come off the Tee for my furnace than to use the existing gas line,
which will eventually be capped off and enclosed in the wall. You
can't see it in these pics, but the old gas drop is actually more to
the right of the old HW heater. Plus this also let me keep the old HW
heater runnning while I work on the new one. Here are some pics:
http://picasaweb.google.com/mikerock...eat=directlink

Is there anything wrong doing it like this?

I don't know, but it looks odd to me.
My basement is similar to yours, with the gas supply running up near
the joists.
Similar furnace and HW tank placement too.
The difference is the drops to the furnace and HW tank.
Can't see the original drop to your old tank.

On mine that's a straight drop from the reducer so the pipe runs a few
inches off the tank, parallel. There's a couple 90's, nipples and a
union at the bottom to bring it to the front HW tank gas connection.

For the furnace the reducer it faced horizontal, and maybe a foot of
pipe brings it over about a foot near the joists, then a 90 drops it
straight down with alongside the furnace. There's a 90 level with the
furnace gas feed to bring it in.
So the big difference is there are no gas pipes to trip over and break
down low, and none in the way.

Good thing too, since my furnace access panel faces the wall.
I know if I were re-piping any gas I would keep as much pipe near the
joists as possible.
Since you're closing that in and have no need to get back there,
you're probably ok.
I really don't like that unsupported 90 in the corner.
There are scenarios where an oaf falls down back there on his ass and
the pair of pliers in his back pocket snags it.
Maybe you can't imagine those scenarios, but I can (-:

On the subject of gas feeds, here's how mine works.
It's circa 1959, and was code then.
Near the furnace the main line (1 1/4" I think) reduces to 3/4"
for the furnace drop and straight on. That's the first hit.
The furnace drop is further reduced to 1/2" at the furnace.

Next the 3/4" has a reduced 1/2" drop to the HW tank.
A bit further there's a full 3/4" tee feeding up to the kitchen.
After that there's a reduced 1/2" run and drop to the dryer.

What's this tell me? Not too much.
Full volume reduced to 3/4" at the furnace, which takes a 1/2" feed.
Maybe the original furnace took more.

1/2" to HW tank and dryer. It works.
3/4" to kitchen stove?
That's a bit puzzling.
Only thing I can figure is the gas company engineers' wives
actually cooked back in the day, so they wanted to stay on the right
side of them with consistent oven temps.

--Vic

?
"dpb" wrote in message
...
Ed Pawlowski wrote:
...
"Evan" wrote

Proper support of gas piping is done with pipe hangers, NOT by
extending sections down to the floor to prop it up...

Mostly, but if it is not possible to use a hanger, it is allowed to use a
floor support. Given that a ceiling or joist can be 16' above a gas
line while the floor is 10" below, sometimes it just makes sense to put a
cradle in place.

However, the line in question is against a concrete wall where a single
hanger at the el where it heads to the heater would be the cat's meow...

--

It would be the cat's scream if someone stepped on that horizontal pip
though. A support under the nipple would save it.

RicodJour wrote:
On Jan 23, 1:05 pm, dpb wrote:
RicodJour wrote:

How old is that old water heater? The reason I'm asking is that
there's no draft hood on it. They have been required for some time
and that heater doesn't look ancient.
"Required" by whom/where/what?

Me/your house/yep.

I just put in a replacement two months ago...

At first I thought you were joking, but on second reading I can see
you're not. The draft hood comes standard already attached to the WH
around here. Yours doesn't?
....

I read it as meaning req'd force draft, not natural.

The picture I looked at of the OP's surely looked to me as tho the draft
hood was there; only that it wasn't yet hooked up.

--

On Jan 23, 5:55*pm, dpb wrote:
RicodJour wrote:
On Jan 23, 1:05 pm, dpb wrote:
RicodJour wrote:

How old is that old water heater? *The reason I'm asking is that
there's no draft hood on it. *They have been required for some time
and that heater doesn't look ancient.
"Required" by whom/where/what?

Me/your house/yep. *

I just put in a replacement two months ago...

* At first I thought you were joking, but on second reading I can see
you're not. *The draft hood comes standard already attached to the WH
around here. *Yours doesn't?

...

I read it as meaning req'd force draft, not natural.

I know no other name for it that a draft hood. Where did the forced
draft drift into the picture?

The picture I looked at of the OP's surely looked to me as tho the draft
hood was there; only that it wasn't yet hooked up.

Yes, that's right.

R

On Jan 23, 1:21*pm, "Bob F" wrote:
Robert Neville wrote:

The other problem is that you should have a licensed plumber check
your work for code compliance or you will have a problem when it
comes time to sell the house. I'd be concerned that you have a large
enough supply to run both the furnace and HW heater at the same time.

Unless his laws are different than mine, all he needs is the inspectors approval
of his work. No plumber need be involved.

I live fairly close to the OP and our Town allows a homeowner to do
their own plumbing work if they take a Town test and pass it. We are
not allowed to work on gas lines or electrical. Both of these are
ignored on a daily basis, as is the requirement for getting a permit
and having inspections.

R

Ok here is the finished product. Just got this bad boy hooked up
today.

http://picasaweb.google.com/mikerock...eat=directlink

Yes, there was no draft hood on the existing HW heater. I don't know
why they did it like that, but this is why I refuse to have anyone do
work in my house. I replaced the flue going into the chimney as it was
rusted and corroded.
I even added an extra shut-off valve on the HW outlet just for
convenience.

I took a nice hot shower, had my pasta dinner that my wife made with
sausage and meatballs, and now I'm having a glass of wine and getting
ready for the Jets/Pittsburgh game.

?
"RicodJour" wrote
I live fairly close to the OP and our Town allows a homeowner to do
their own plumbing work if they take a Town test and pass it. We are
not allowed to work on gas lines or electrical. Both of these are
ignored on a daily basis, as is the requirement for getting a permit
and having inspections.

R

If everyone pulled a permit and got inspections, Home Depot would be out of
business and there would not be enough inspectors to go around.

On Jan 23, 7:02*pm, "Ed Pawlowski" wrote:
"RicodJour" wrote

I live fairly close to the OP and our Town allows a homeowner to do
their own plumbing work if they take a Town test and pass it. *We are
not allowed to work on gas lines or electrical. *Both of these are
ignored on a daily basis, as is the requirement for getting a permit
and having inspections.

If everyone pulled a permit and got inspections, Home Depot would be out of
business and there would not be enough inspectors to go around.

You make those sound like bad things.

R

On Jan 23, 6:42*pm, Mikepier wrote:

I took a nice hot shower, had my pasta dinner that my wife made with
sausage and meatballs, and now I'm having a glass of wine and getting
ready for the Jets/Pittsburgh game.

If your wife can make pasta out of sausage and meatballs, she's a
keeper.

R

Support Nipples!
Buy War Bras!

Stepping on a pipe can be a
pain in the gas.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"Ed Pawlowski" wrote in message
news
It would be the cat's scream if someone stepped on
that horizontal pip though. A support under the
nipple would save it.

I like the copper unions, the neat run of various
tubing, and more. Looks neat and tidy, from here.

Shoulda had dinner with your wife, instead of
with meatballs. Glass of wine? I figure you're not
Mormons?

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"Mikepier" wrote in message
...
Ok here is the finished product. Just got this bad boy
hooked up
today.

http://picasaweb.google.com/mikerock...eat=directlink

Yes, there was no draft hood on the existing HW heater. I
don't know
why they did it like that, but this is why I refuse to have
anyone do
work in my house. I replaced the flue going into the chimney
as it was
rusted and corroded.
I even added an extra shut-off valve on the HW outlet just
for
convenience.

I took a nice hot shower, had my pasta dinner that my wife
made with
sausage and meatballs, and now I'm having a glass of wine
and getting
ready for the Jets/Pittsburgh game.

On Jan 23, 7:35*pm, "Stormin Mormon"
wrote:

Shoulda had dinner with your wife, instead of
with meatballs. Glass of wine? I figure you're not
Mormons?

What tipped you off? The wine or the singular wife?

R

The wine. Mormons have done singular wife since 1890.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"RicodJour" wrote in message
...
On Jan 23, 7:35 pm, "Stormin Mormon"
wrote:

Shoulda had dinner with your wife, instead of
with meatballs. Glass of wine? I figure you're not
Mormons?

What tipped you off? The wine or the singular wife?

R