On Dec 25, 4:28*pm, Teredo wrote:
On Sat, 25 Dec 2010 14:09:31 +0000, notbob wrote:
On 2010-12-25, HeyBub wrote:

Nobody thinks we can WIN in Afghanistan. The object has always been not
to lose.

The object has always been, and always will be, to keep the
military-industrial complex rolling in $$$$. *Exporting war is our
primary business. *Duh!

The object now is to secure the Trillions of dollars worth of lithium
deposits found in July in Afghanistan by American geologists. So expect
the US to be there for many years because of the potential trillions of
dollars of an important mineral like lithium. The stuff is used to make
cell phone batteries and more and more batteries for just about every
small electronic device. Whoever controls this will have the corner on
the market for sure.

There's more in Bolivia. Socialist country too. Needed for the next
generation of motor cars. :-)

On Dec 26, 6:15*pm, Higgs Boson wrote:
On Dec 26, 7:17*am, Nate Nagel wrote:





On 12/25/2010 04:03 PM, Higgs Boson wrote:

On Dec 25, 9:40 am, Nate *wrote:
On 12/25/2010 12:13 PM, Higgs Boson wrote:

On Dec 25, 6:09 am, * *wrote:
On 2010-12-25, * *wrote:

Nobody thinks we can WIN in Afghanistan. The object has always been not to
lose.

The object has always been, and always will be, to keep the
military-industrial complex rolling in $$$$. *Exporting war is our
primary business. *Duh!

nb

Now, now, let's be fair! *There's another important objective: *To
keep the OIL flowing!

To that end, we kiss up to the worst *dictatorial regimes in the
world, and arrange to kill anybody who tries to upset the situation..
Like poor Saddam; he would still be at liberty to drop his Shi'ite
opponents into acid if he hadn't tried to upset our cozy deal with the
Saudis: *You keep the oil price stable and you can do anything you
want to your people. *Only now it's coming out that the money we send
Saudi for the oil is sent right on to our Taliban *friends...money
covered with the blood of our troops and of innocent civilians in
Afghanistan and Iraq. AND Pakistan, don't forget; our Pakistani
friends who receive gazillions of dollars from the U.S. *Makes our
puny contributions to Israel, which IS on our side, look like play
dough.

Since when was Israel on anyone's side but their own? *(same could be
said for pretty much anyone in that whole area though)

Could be, hell, IS said by any regime ANYWHERE!!

Slight difference with the neighbors, however: *Israel not murdering
innocent civilians; *not sending terrorists to do a 9/11 over hereand
plan for much, much more; not working actively to destabilize the
entire region.

Really? *what about the Palestinians in Gaza etc.? *I'm sure some of
them might not be militant were they not being marginalized and driven
out of their homes by the Israelis, although since it's been going on so
long I bet that most of them are pretty militant at least WRT Israel by now.

Err...dunno if you noticed, but for decades, the late, unlamented
Yassir Arafa, leader of Fatah, *ran the country out of a little black
notebook in his pocket. *Who got what, who didn't. *Result: *The elite
lived in gorgeous villas by the sea, while the rest of the
Palestinians scrounged for a livelihood. *Arafat's wife, blonde
Christian, cost -- and still costs? -- $100,000 a month to live in
Paris with "their" child. *(Not sure if Arafat could or would want to
sire a child.)

Finally, *disgusted with the corruption, the Gazans held elections and
actually voted in Hamas. *Result: a fanatical religious-military
dictatorship, *vying for power with the relatively toothless Fatah. *A
reign of terror, with Muslim killing Muslim big time. *(Same all over
the Arab world, if anybody has noticed; usually religious splits
between factions A and B.) *The plight of ordinary Gazans has greatly
worsened, NOT due to Israeli "marginalization", but to ceaseless
rocket attacks on southern Israel cities ONE MILE from the border.
(Also much worse attacks in the North from sophisticated Iranian
missiles fired by Hizbollah). *Israeli children now have 15 SECONDS to
get to a shelter. *They suffer from serious psychological
difficulties, such that they have to be evacuated to therapeutic camps
further North periodically to avert complete psychological collapse.

After years of suicide bombers blowing up school busses, e.g., Israel
finally had to spend an inordinate amount of GDP to build the security
fence -- FENCE, not WALL -- there is a wall only for a short span in
the most dangerous area -- to keep out the deliberate murderers of
innocent civilians.

Ditto for the border crossings. *If YOU were threatened by killers at
the border to your country sneaking in weapons (like under bodies in
ambulances) (or giving guns to a fellow worker who will secret them at
his workplace for later use) *(or a chef in Tel Aviv detected before
he could poison the food) (hundreds, if not thousands of similar
stories) ...if that was YOU, would you move to regulate border
crossings? *You bet your ass you would! *Self--preservation is the
first rule of life.

A little research might help. *But no, it's always Israel's fault.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

The Israel's shouldn't be there. Its stolen land. The Palesinians are
entitled to do whatever's necceassary to get it back.

On Dec 26, 2:51*pm, "HeyBub" wrote:
Harry K wrote:

Ya mean like we didn't 'lose' in Viet Nam?

Correct. The US involvement in the Vietnam conflict was concluded by a peace
treaty (for which Henry Kissenger was awarded a Nobel Peace Prize).

The last combat troops in Vietnam left more than a year before the country
fell.

He's really sucked up the propaganda.

On Dec 26, 9:59*am, Jim Yanik wrote:
" wrote :



On Sat, 25 Dec 2010 08:46:47 -0800 (PST), Harry K
wrote:

On Dec 25, 5:58 am, "HeyBub" wrote:
harry wrote:
On Dec 25, 1:14 pm, notbob wrote:
On 2010-12-25, HeyBub wrote:

that number. Over the last two months, the eighth largest army
in the world....

I've been saying this for 40 yrs. A foreign land army wouldn't
get half a state from the beaches before being defeated. Every
redneck, yokel, hunter, militia nut, and gun collector in the Us
would be mounted up and rolling within minutes of the news. This
is why I found the movie Red Dawn totally preposterous. Those pi
ata pinkos woulda' been wiped out in 24 hrs. And AKs vs scoped
300 WinMags? Puh-leeze!

nb

So why then do you think you can defeat Afghanistan?

Nobody thinks we can WIN in Afghanistan. The object has always been
not to lose.

Plus, it's a lot of fun to kill them.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Ya mean like we didn't 'lose' in Viet Nam?

we DID NOT "lose",we gave up.
Even the NVN Generals admit we had them beat,until we gave up.
America lost it's will to fight,and fought foolishly by giving in to
Political Correctness.We never dealt with Hanoi or Haiphong harbor
properly.We really never attacked past the S.Vietnam border,just some lame
bombings on "suspected" targets(trees).

There never had to BE a Vietnam war if the Dulles brothers striped
pants set in the State Department had not ignored Ho Chi Minh when he
approached the U.S. to be Vietnam's friend against their millennial
enemy, China. The U.S. simply ignored this contact from another head
of state. "Our" interests were to restore the French colonial regime,
and incidentally continue access to strategic minerals. I saw with my
own eyes an exhibit in Saigon -- oops, Ho Chi Minh City -- quoted a
high-ranking US Official to say that we must stay in Vietnam for the
tungsten and other strategic minerals.

Ho Chi Minh was a sophisticated, cultured, much-traveled NATIONALIST,
not a COMMUNIST, till he had nowhere else to turn. Was not a good idea
to ignore/insult this funny little guy in the black pajamas with the
wispy beard, a great admirer of the U.S. He modeled the Vietnamese
Constitution after the US Constitution.

Then, of course, we come to the Tonkin Gulf fabricated incident, after
the US had sent boats up & down the coast baiting the Vietnamese. It
is now on record hat Johnson "agonized" over whether to order attack,
knowing full well that he was sending our troops into harm's way on a
baldfaced LIE.

Johnson put through some progressive legislation; he cared about the
poor. But he is responsible for the deaths of 58,000 American troops
and the wounding for life of countless others. There wasn't the same
concern for vets that is (too) gradually taking hold because of the
current Asian wars. And, if anybody cares, millions of Vietnamese
civilians were killed and their country poisoned with Agent Orange.
But then, they were only "gooks"!

Santayan said: Those who do not study history are doomed to relive
it."

We are reliving it. WMD, Yellow cake. Metal Tubes.

Ten years earlier, our Ambassador to Iraq, April Glaspie was asked by
Saddam Hussein what the U.S. would do if he invaded Kuwait. Glaspie
replied (on instructions from State Dept; NO ambassador MAKES policy;
they convey it) that the U.S. had no policy on the matter. The rest,
as they say, is history.

Too bad our children aren't taught read history in school, instead of
a sanitized US-centric version. Much of the world outside our shores
has figured out that, as Benjamin Franklin famously said: "We must
hang together, or we will assuredly hang separately."

HB




There never would have had to BE a Vietnam war if the Dulles brothers
striped pants set in the State Department had not ignored Ho Chi Minh
when he approached the U.S. to be Vietnam's friend against their
millennial enemy, China. The U.S. simply ignored this contact from
another head of state. "Our" interests were to restore the French
colonial regime, and incidentally continue access to strategic
minerals. I saw with my own eyes an exhibit in Saigon -- oops, Ho Chi
Minh City -- with words from high-ranking US Official that we must
stay in Vietnam for the tungsten and other strategic minerals.

Then, of course, we come to the Tonkin Gulf fabricated incident, after
the US had sent boats up & down the coast baiting the Vietnamese. It
is now on record hat Johnson "agonized" over whether to order attack,
knowing full well that he was sending our troops into harm's way on a
baldfaced LIE.

Santayan said: Those who do not study history are doomed to relive
it."

WMD, Yellow cake. Metal Tubes. Ten years earlier, our Ambassador to
Iraq, April Glaspie was asked by Saddam Hussein what the U.S. would
do if he invaded Kuwait. Glaspie replied (on instructions from State
Dept; NO ambassador MAKES policy; they convey it) that the U.S. had
no policy on the matter. The rest, as they say, is history.

Likely. *Congress likes to do stupid things.

That is exactly the way
Afghanisstan will end...with US dragging our tails out of there just
like the Russians did.

If the leftists have anything to say about it, certainly.

BECAUSE of the leftists and their Political Correctness.

--
Jim Yanik
jyanik
at
localnet
dot com

On Dec 26, 7:34*pm, wrote:
On Sun, 26 Dec 2010 11:47:11 -0600, "





wrote:
On Sun, 26 Dec 2010 05:51:34 -0800 (PST), harry wrote:

On Dec 26, 1:38 pm, Fat Dumb & Happy "Fat Dumb &
wrote:
HeyBub wrote:
... kills as many targets as they can find while experiencing no casualties!

"The state of Wisconsin has ... over 600,000 hunters. Allow me to restate
that number. Over the last two months, the eighth largest army in the
world more men under arms than Iran; more than France and Germany
combined deployed to the woods of a single American state to help keep the
deer menace at bay."

http://federalistpaupers.com/index.p...he-terrorists-...

Hey it's not easy in the annual war on deer, Four purple hearts were
earned this year on opening day of battle.http://host.madison.com/wsj/news/loc.../article_a1208...
FWIW my dogs love deer meat, it's their favorite.

Sad *******s.

Deer? *Certainly, just look at their big brown eyes. Gotta Kill 'em to save
'em (get them off the roads).

The American white tail dear is the most dangerous animal in the
world, killing more people than snakes, lions, tigers, rhinos and
hippos put together ... in traffic accidents.

In large areas of the US they have become 150 pound rats, far out
pacing the ability of he environment to support them. Nature's answer
was big cats but the only place that still supports that model is
South Florida. We are actually introducing Texas cougars here and
calling them "endangered Florida panthers". They have cut down on the
deer population and now are now decimating livestock. *You can't kill
or molest them but the biggest cause of panther deaths is, you guessed
it, traffic accidents.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

The reason they have prolifierated is that you have shot all the
bears. You need more bears.

On Sun, 26 Dec 2010 16:21:20 -0500, wrote:

The reason they have prolifierated is that you have shot all the
bears. You need more bears.

Black bears are doing quite well in SW Florida. They are walking
around downtown Ft Myers occasionally.
Once you get out of town they are all over.

This is a few miles east of my house
http://gfretwell.com/wildlife/bears%...0Corkscrew.jpg
We see one in the park right at the end of my street now and then.

I just don't think bears really go after deer that often. They are
more interested in palmetto berries, air potatoes, road kill and
dumpster diving.

Thanks for posting that photo. Corkscrew was a swamp when I was a kid
growing up in the county, now partly a Preserve with golf courses. Ft.
Myers had a population of 25000. Part of 6-Mile Cypress and Pole
Crossing are now the International Airport

Note in the picture these bears are in a pine forest. "High ground"
and not in the marsh areas.

You took me back 40 years. Glad to see bears are doing well...

On Sun, 26 Dec 2010 11:48:04 -0800 (PST), harry wrote:

On Dec 26, 7:34*pm, wrote:
On Sun, 26 Dec 2010 11:47:11 -0600, "





wrote:
On Sun, 26 Dec 2010 05:51:34 -0800 (PST), harry wrote:

On Dec 26, 1:38 pm, Fat Dumb & Happy "Fat Dumb &
wrote:
HeyBub wrote:
... kills as many targets as they can find while experiencing no casualties!

"The state of Wisconsin has ... over 600,000 hunters. Allow me to restate
that number. Over the last two months, the eighth largest army in the
world more men under arms than Iran; more than France and Germany
combined deployed to the woods of a single American state to help keep the
deer menace at bay."

http://federalistpaupers.com/index.p...he-terrorists-...

Hey it's not easy in the annual war on deer, Four purple hearts were
earned this year on opening day of battle.http://host.madison.com/wsj/news/loc.../article_a1208...
FWIW my dogs love deer meat, it's their favorite.

Sad *******s.

Deer? *Certainly, just look at their big brown eyes. Gotta Kill 'em to save
'em (get them off the roads).

The American white tail dear is the most dangerous animal in the
world, killing more people than snakes, lions, tigers, rhinos and
hippos put together ... in traffic accidents.

....but not as many as that vile chemical, Hydrogen Hydroxide.

In large areas of the US they have become 150 pound rats, far out
pacing the ability of he environment to support them. Nature's answer
was big cats but the only place that still supports that model is
South Florida. We are actually introducing Texas cougars here and
calling them "endangered Florida panthers". They have cut down on the
deer population and now are now decimating livestock. *You can't kill
or molest them but the biggest cause of panther deaths is, you guessed
it, traffic accidents.- Hide quoted text -

Send some of the puddy-tats up here. Our tech was late to work the other day
because he ran over one of those rats on US280, and had to sleep the night in
his car before he could get help.

- Show quoted text -

The reason they have prolifierated is that you have shot all the
bears. You need more bears.

Bears? Eating White-Tailed Deer? Harry, you're just too funny!

On Sun, 26 Dec 2010 16:33:58 -0600, "
wrote:

The reason they have prolifierated is that you have shot all the
bears. You need more bears.

Bears? Eating White-Tailed Deer? Harry, you're just too funny!

He got it from Hollywood.

--
Fame is like a shaved pig with a greased tail, and it is only after it
has slipped through the hands of some thousands, that some fellow, by
mere chance, holds on to it! -- Davy Crockett

harry wrote:
On Dec 26, 2:51 pm, "HeyBub" wrote:
Harry K wrote:

Ya mean like we didn't 'lose' in Viet Nam?

Correct. The US involvement in the Vietnam conflict was concluded by
a peace treaty (for which Henry Kissenger was awarded a Nobel Peace
Prize).

The last combat troops in Vietnam left more than a year before the
country fell.

He's really sucked up the propaganda.

Propaganda?

A peace treaty ( Agreement on Ending the War and Restoring Peace in
Vietnam ) was signed 27 January 1973.

27 January 1973 - The last American soldier to die in combat in Vietnam, Lt.
Col. William B. Nolde, is killed.

29 March 1973 - The last American soldier is removed from Vietnam.

Saigon fell on 30 April 1975.

harry wrote:
On Dec 25, 1:14 pm, notbob wrote:
On 2010-12-25, HeyBub wrote:

that number. Over the last two months, the eighth largest army in
the world....

I've been saying this for 40 yrs. A foreign land army wouldn't get
half a state from the beaches before being defeated. Every redneck,
yokel, hunter, militia nut, and gun collector in the Us would be
mounted up and rolling within minutes of the news. This is why I
found the movie Red Dawn totally preposterous. Those pi ata pinkos
woulda' been wiped out in 24 hrs. And AKs vs scoped 300 WinMags?
Puh-leeze!

nb

So they would all be "unlawful combatants". They could be gathered up
& taken far far away to be tortured?

No. They would be tortured in-country.

On Sun, 26 Dec 2010 11:48:04 -0800 (PST), harry
wrote:

The reason they have prolifierated is that you have shot all the
bears. You need more bears.

_5-year-old descendant of Davy Crockett kills bear_

"DEWITT, Ark. — A 5-year-old Arkansas County boy killed a black bear
Sunday weighing more than 400 pounds.

Tre Merritt, a descendant of Davy Crockett, was hunting with his
grandfather Mike Merritt when a black bear happened upon their stand.

"His 10th great-grandfather was Davy Crockett," Mike Merritt said.
"And Davy supposedly killed him a bear when he was three. And Tre is
five and really killed a bear. I really doubt if Davy killed one when
he was three."

http://sports.espn.go.com/outdoors/h...ory?id=3150157

"notbob" wrote in message ...

Screw the lithium. It's the poppies that keep us there. Under the
Taliban, as cruel and barbaric as they are, they stopped the trade in
poppies, a major source of heroin.

No, they didn't, they shut down shipments for a year to eliminate a backlog
of supply and drive up prices. The Taliban was and still is funded in large
part by the Afghan opium/heroin trade.

"Higgs Boson" wrote in message
...

Slight difference with the neighbors, however: Israel not murdering
innocent civilians;

Well, sometimes they do. They usually have to be provoked, but when they
drop a few bombs into Gaza or Lebanon and kill women and kids, that counts.
They're preferable to their neighbors, no doubt about that, but it's not
like their hands are totally clean.

On Dec 26, 10:33*pm, "
wrote:
On Sun, 26 Dec 2010 11:48:04 -0800 (PST), harry wrote:
On Dec 26, 7:34 pm, wrote:
On Sun, 26 Dec 2010 11:47:11 -0600, "

wrote:
On Sun, 26 Dec 2010 05:51:34 -0800 (PST), harry wrote:

On Dec 26, 1:38 pm, Fat Dumb & Happy "Fat Dumb &
wrote:
HeyBub wrote:
... kills as many targets as they can find while experiencing no casualties!

"The state of Wisconsin has ... over 600,000 hunters. Allow me to restate
that number. Over the last two months, the eighth largest army in the
world more men under arms than Iran; more than France and Germany
combined deployed to the woods of a single American state to help keep the
deer menace at bay."

http://federalistpaupers.com/index.p...he-terrorists-...

Hey it's not easy in the annual war on deer, Four purple hearts were
earned this year on opening day of battle.http://host.madison.com/wsj/news/loc.../article_a1208...
FWIW my dogs love deer meat, it's their favorite.

Sad *******s.

Deer? Certainly, just look at their big brown eyes. Gotta Kill 'em to save
'em (get them off the roads).

The American white tail dear is the most dangerous animal in the
world, killing more people than snakes, lions, tigers, rhinos and
hippos put together ... in traffic accidents.

...but not as many as that vile chemical, Hydrogen Hydroxide.

In large areas of the US they have become 150 pound rats, far out
pacing the ability of he environment to support them. Nature's answer
was big cats but the only place that still supports that model is
South Florida. We are actually introducing Texas cougars here and
calling them "endangered Florida panthers". They have cut down on the
deer population and now are now decimating livestock. You can't kill
or molest them but the biggest cause of panther deaths is, you guessed
it, traffic accidents.- Hide quoted text -

Send some of the puddy-tats up here. *Our tech was late to work the other day
because he ran over one of those rats on US280, and had to sleep the night in
his car before he could get help.

- Show quoted text -

The reason they have prolifierated is that you have shot all the
bears. You need more bears.

Bears? *Eating White-Tailed Deer? *Harry, you're just too funny!- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

OK. Wolves then

On Dec 27, 12:30*am, Oren wrote:
On Sun, 26 Dec 2010 16:33:58 -0600, "

wrote:
The reason they have prolifierated is that you have shot all the
bears. You need more bears.

Bears? *Eating White-Tailed Deer? *Harry, you're just too funny!

He got it from Hollywood.

--
Fame is like a shaved pig with a greased tail, and it is only after it
has slipped through the hands of some thousands, that some fellow, by
mere chance, holds on to it! *-- Davy Crockett

I expect I did!

On Dec 27, 12:39*am, "HeyBub" wrote:
harry wrote:
On Dec 25, 1:14 pm, notbob wrote:
On 2010-12-25, HeyBub wrote:

that number. Over the last two months, the eighth largest army in
the world....

I've been saying this for 40 yrs. A foreign land army wouldn't get
half a state from the beaches before being defeated. Every redneck,
yokel, hunter, militia nut, and gun collector in the Us would be
mounted up and rolling within minutes of the news. This is why I
found the movie Red Dawn totally preposterous. Those pi ata pinkos
woulda' been wiped out in 24 hrs. And AKs vs scoped 300 WinMags?
Puh-leeze!

nb

So they would all be "unlawful combatants". They could be gathered up
& taken far far away to be tortured?

No. They would be tortured in-country.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I meant your "deerhunter army."

In article ,
"DGDevin" wrote:

"Higgs Boson" wrote in message
...

Slight difference with the neighbors, however: Israel not murdering
innocent civilians;

Well, sometimes they do. They usually have to be provoked, but when they
drop a few bombs into Gaza or Lebanon and kill women and kids, that counts.
They're preferable to their neighbors, no doubt about that, but it's not
like their hands are totally clean.

The big difference being that the women and kids aren't the primary
targets.

--
"Even I realized that money was to politicians what the ecalyptus tree is to koala bears: food, water, shelter and something to crap on."
---PJ O'Rourke

On Dec 27, 12:17*pm, Kurt Ullman wrote:
In article ,

*"DGDevin" wrote:
"Higgs Boson" *wrote in message
....

Slight difference with the neighbors, however: *Israel not murdering
innocent civilians;

Well, sometimes they do. *They usually have to be provoked, but when they
drop a few bombs into Gaza or Lebanon and kill women and kids, that counts.
They're preferable to their neighbors, no doubt about that, but it's not
like their hands are totally clean.

The big difference being that the women and kids aren't the primary
targets.

--
"Even I realized that money was to politicians what the ecalyptus tree is to koala bears: food, water, shelter and something to crap on."
*---PJ O'Rourke

It was the US military invented the term "collateral damage". Nobody
had hear of it 'til then.

On Dec 27, 5:48*pm, wrote:
On Mon, 27 Dec 2010 02:08:49 -0800 (PST), harry
wrote:

The reason they have prolifierated is that you have shot all the
bears. You need more bears.

Bears? Eating White-Tailed Deer? Harry, you're just too funny!- Hide quoted text -

OK. Wolves then

I think that is a great idea. We should turn a few dozen packs of
wolves loose in the North East cities and let those suburban dwellers
experience the "thrill of the wild" that they are imposing on people
in the west. *There are plenty of deer there that need controlling. I
have seen deer in downtown Washington DC. I damn near hit 2 on the
Whitehurst freeway. I dodged one and the other one jumped over the
wall. If I didn't have someplace I had to be I would have driven
around to K street, 30 feet below to see if he was OK.

I don't understand what you mean about people in the NE imposing
"thrill of the wild" on people in the West?
I would love to feed our bankers to wolves. Or any other savage beast.
Maybe tie them to ants nests.

DGDevin wrote:
"Higgs Boson" wrote in message
...

Slight difference with the neighbors, however: Israel not murdering
innocent civilians;

Well, sometimes they do. They usually have to be provoked, but when
they drop a few bombs into Gaza or Lebanon and kill women and kids,
that counts. They're preferable to their neighbors, no doubt about
that, but it's not like their hands are totally clean.

Au contraire! Israel has never targeted civilians; Hamas has never targeted
the military.

On Mon, 27 Dec 2010 07:17:23 -0500, Kurt Ullman wrote:

In article ,
"DGDevin" wrote:

"Higgs Boson" wrote in message
...

Slight difference with the neighbors, however: Israel not murdering
innocent civilians;

Well, sometimes they do. They usually have to be provoked, but when they
drop a few bombs into Gaza or Lebanon and kill women and kids, that counts.
They're preferable to their neighbors, no doubt about that, but it's not
like their hands are totally clean.

The big difference being that the women and kids aren't the primary
targets.

But they *are* standing next to the primary targets. ...and allowing them to
be there.

On Mon, 27 Dec 2010 02:08:49 -0800 (PST), harry wrote:

On Dec 26, 10:33*pm, "
wrote:
On Sun, 26 Dec 2010 11:48:04 -0800 (PST), harry wrote:
On Dec 26, 7:34 pm, wrote:
On Sun, 26 Dec 2010 11:47:11 -0600, "

wrote:
On Sun, 26 Dec 2010 05:51:34 -0800 (PST), harry wrote:

On Dec 26, 1:38 pm, Fat Dumb & Happy "Fat Dumb &
wrote:
HeyBub wrote:
... kills as many targets as they can find while experiencing no casualties!

"The state of Wisconsin has ... over 600,000 hunters. Allow me to restate
that number. Over the last two months, the eighth largest army in the
world more men under arms than Iran; more than France and Germany
combined deployed to the woods of a single American state to help keep the
deer menace at bay."

http://federalistpaupers.com/index.p...he-terrorists-...

Hey it's not easy in the annual war on deer, Four purple hearts were
earned this year on opening day of battle.http://host.madison.com/wsj/news/loc.../article_a1208...
FWIW my dogs love deer meat, it's their favorite.

Sad *******s.

Deer? Certainly, just look at their big brown eyes. Gotta Kill 'em to save
'em (get them off the roads).

The American white tail dear is the most dangerous animal in the
world, killing more people than snakes, lions, tigers, rhinos and
hippos put together ... in traffic accidents.

...but not as many as that vile chemical, Hydrogen Hydroxide.

In large areas of the US they have become 150 pound rats, far out
pacing the ability of he environment to support them. Nature's answer
was big cats but the only place that still supports that model is
South Florida. We are actually introducing Texas cougars here and
calling them "endangered Florida panthers". They have cut down on the
deer population and now are now decimating livestock. You can't kill
or molest them but the biggest cause of panther deaths is, you guessed
it, traffic accidents.- Hide quoted text -

Send some of the puddy-tats up here. *Our tech was late to work the other day
because he ran over one of those rats on US280, and had to sleep the night in
his car before he could get help.

- Show quoted text -

The reason they have prolifierated is that you have shot all the
bears. You need more bears.

Bears? *Eating White-Tailed Deer? *Harry, you're just too funny!- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

OK. Wolves then

Go back to watching The Early Show.

"Kurt Ullman" wrote in message
m...

Slight difference with the neighbors, however: Israel not murdering
innocent civilians;

Well, sometimes they do. They usually have to be provoked, but when they
drop a few bombs into Gaza or Lebanon and kill women and kids, that
counts.
They're preferable to their neighbors, no doubt about that, but it's not
like their hands are totally clean.

The big difference being that the women and kids aren't the primary
targets.

I'd agree with that, but that's probably of little comfort to the families
of the dead women and kids.

"harry" wrote in message
...

It was the US military invented the term "collateral damage". Nobody
had hear of it 'til then.

It was the head of RAF Bomber Command who said if he couldn't kill a German
worker standing at his lathe then he was happy to kill him sleeping in his
bed. Of course that meant he was going to kill the civilian worker's wife
and kids as well....

You really don't want to look at your own nation's history much, do you.
And you'd crawl over broken glass to take a swipe at the U.S., wouldn't you.

wrote in message ...


The big difference being that the women and kids aren't the primary
targets.

But they *are* standing next to the primary targets. ...and allowing them
to
be there.

Right, those women and kids should tell the guys with the AK-47s and RPGs to
get the hell out of town. If you were in their place you'd be more than
happy to go eyeball to eyeball with heavily armed fanatics, sure you would.

"HeyBub" wrote in message
...

Well, sometimes they do. They usually have to be provoked, but when
they drop a few bombs into Gaza or Lebanon and kill women and kids,
that counts. They're preferable to their neighbors, no doubt about
that, but it's not like their hands are totally clean.

Au contraire! Israel has never targeted civilians; Hamas has never
targeted the military.

Did I say that Israel targets women and kids? No? Then what is the purpose
of "Au contraire" since I never said the dead women and kids were the
intended targets?

Israel is trying to kill the guys launching rockets or whatever, but they
know they're sometimes going to kill some innocents as well, especially when
Hamas uses civilians as human shields and/or wants civilian casualties for
propaganda/recruiting purposes. That, presumably, is why the man said war
is hell.

BTW, Hamas has targeted the IDF on occasion. That's how they captured IDF
soldier Gilad Shalit, in a cross-border raid into Israel back in 2006--two
Hamas fighters and two Israeli soldiers were killed in the firefight during
which Shalit was captured when his armored vehicle was hit by an RPG. No,
that doesn't excuse their savage attacks on civilians, but then I didn't say
it did.

Do you ever fact-check the slogans you like to repeat here?

In article ,
"DGDevin" wrote:

"Kurt Ullman" wrote in message
m...

Slight difference with the neighbors, however: Israel not murdering
innocent civilians;

Well, sometimes they do. They usually have to be provoked, but when they
drop a few bombs into Gaza or Lebanon and kill women and kids, that
counts.
They're preferable to their neighbors, no doubt about that, but it's not
like their hands are totally clean.

The big difference being that the women and kids aren't the primary
targets.

I'd agree with that, but that's probably of little comfort to the families
of the dead women and kids.

True, but that was more in response to "sometimes they do" murder. I
actually have never understood why the locals don't get bent about the
nasties hanging out with them and bringing down the destruction.

--
"Even I realized that money was to politicians what the ecalyptus tree is to koala bears: food, water, shelter and something to crap on."
---PJ O'Rourke

"Kurt Ullman" wrote in message
...

I'd agree with that, but that's probably of little comfort to the
families
of the dead women and kids.

True, but that was more in response to "sometimes they do" murder. I
actually have never understood why the locals don't get bent about the
nasties hanging out with them and bringing down the destruction.

First, getting rid of guys with automatic weapons and a reputation for
killing people who disagree with them isn't so easy. Second, the
Palestinians in Gaza elected Hamas because they didn't see anyone else
likely to lift a finger to help them. Fatah had proven itself corrupt and
ineffective, so desperate people chose desperate means. Third, if Americans
typically don't back away when someone attacks them, then why expect the
Palestinians to be any different? History teaches us that bombing people is
just as likely to **** them off and make them pull together rather than
discouraging them. Every time an Israeli airstrike kills women and kids,
Hamas gets another busload of recruits--no wonder the *******s hide their
weapons in schools and mosques.

On Dec 26, 10:26*pm, "DGDevin" wrote:
"Higgs Boson" *wrote in message

...

Slight difference with the neighbors, however: *Israel not murdering
innocent civilians;

Well, sometimes they do. *They usually have to be provoked, but when they
drop a few bombs into Gaza or Lebanon and kill women and kids, that counts.
They're preferable to their neighbors, no doubt about that, but it's not
like their hands are totally clean.

The women and kids you refer to are forcibly planted by Hamas in and
around military targets, knowing that, unlike Hamas, Jewswould never
deliberately kill innocent civilians. It's a silly, old-fashioned
thing called ethics and morality. In fact, the Israelis warn ahead
of time when they are going to take out a rocket launch site or other
Hamas military target. They telephone, they leaflet, they do
everything possible to warn civilians. Counter-productive, isn't it.,
when they KNOW Hamas is going to forcibly plant civilians at the
target, and the mission might have to be called off.

As to the "usually" have to be provoked, when else would they attack?
Wouldn't our country or ANY country take out rocket launchers or other
attack installations BEFORE they can kill civilians? Why would Israel
be different?

All the Israelis want to do is BE LEFT ALONE! But the Arabs will not
do it, have not done it, don't seem to get the idea that it will get
them nowhere. The Palestinian population, as opposed to their
fanatic Hamas masters, as well as the weakened Fatah, would welcome an
end to violence, but they are not in charge; Hamas is.

On the Northern border, Hizbollah by now has enormous quantities of
rocket launchers -- serious Iranian-made stuff -- planted among
civilians not only near the Israeli border, but because of their long
range, even back further. The civilians have no say in this.
Hizbollah is the real government of Lebanon. The "government" forces
are impotent to control Hizbollah's provocations.

HB

In article ,
"DGDevin" wrote:

"Kurt Ullman" wrote in message
...

I'd agree with that, but that's probably of little comfort to the
families
of the dead women and kids.

True, but that was more in response to "sometimes they do" murder. I
actually have never understood why the locals don't get bent about the
nasties hanging out with them and bringing down the destruction.

First, getting rid of guys with automatic weapons and a reputation for
killing people who disagree with them isn't so easy.

True. Just that the normal person to fanatic ratio is so high. I guess
a bunch of this is just that the leaders and heavyweights are in with
the bad guys.

Third, if Americans
typically don't back away when someone attacks them, then why expect the
Palestinians to be any different? History teaches us that bombing people is
just as likely to **** them off and make them pull together rather than
discouraging them. Every time an Israeli airstrike kills women and kids,
Hamas gets another busload of recruits--no wonder the *******s hide their
weapons in schools and mosques.

This is more along of the lines of the stuff I don't understand. I
agree it one thing to rise up, but something entirely different to join
the people bringing down the pain.

--
"Even I realized that money was to politicians what the ecalyptus tree is to koala bears: food, water, shelter and something to crap on."
---PJ O'Rourke

On Mon, 27 Dec 2010 12:42:03 -0800, "DGDevin" wrote:



wrote in message ...


The big difference being that the women and kids aren't the primary
targets.

But they *are* standing next to the primary targets. ...and allowing them
to
be there.

Right, those women and kids should tell the guys with the AK-47s and RPGs to
get the hell out of town. If you were in their place you'd be more than
happy to go eyeball to eyeball with heavily armed fanatics, sure you would.

It's happened. They are part of the problem and are used as pawns. Life is
tough, particularly when you refuse to look out for yourself.

On Mon, 27 Dec 2010 12:48:47 -0500, wrote:

On Mon, 27 Dec 2010 02:08:49 -0800 (PST), harry
wrote:

The reason they have prolifierated is that you have shot all the
bears. You need more bears.

Bears? *Eating White-Tailed Deer? *Harry, you're just too funny!- Hide quoted text -



OK. Wolves then

I think that is a great idea. We should turn a few dozen packs of
wolves loose in the North East cities and let those suburban dwellers
experience the "thrill of the wild" that they are imposing on people
in the west. There are plenty of deer there that need controlling. I
have seen deer in downtown Washington DC. I damn near hit 2 on the
Whitehurst freeway. I dodged one and the other one jumped over the
wall. If I didn't have someplace I had to be I would have driven
around to K street, 30 feet below to see if he was OK.

That was a Democrat. They're getting hungry already.

On 12/27/2010 3:58 PM, Higgs Boson wrote:
On Dec 26, 10:26 pm, wrote:
"Higgs Boson" wrote in message

...

Slight difference with the neighbors, however: Israel not murdering
innocent civilians;

Well, sometimes they do. They usually have to be provoked, but when they
drop a few bombs into Gaza or Lebanon and kill women and kids, that counts.
They're preferable to their neighbors, no doubt about that, but it's not
like their hands are totally clean.

The women and kids you refer to are forcibly planted by Hamas in and
around military targets, knowing that, unlike Hamas, Jewswould never
deliberately kill innocent civilians. It's a silly, old-fashioned
thing called ethics and morality. In fact, the Israelis warn ahead
of time when they are going to take out a rocket launch site or other
Hamas military target. They telephone, they leaflet, they do
everything possible to warn civilians. Counter-productive, isn't it.,
when they KNOW Hamas is going to forcibly plant civilians at the
target, and the mission might have to be called off.

As to the "usually" have to be provoked, when else would they attack?
Wouldn't our country or ANY country take out rocket launchers or other
attack installations BEFORE they can kill civilians? Why would Israel
be different?

All the Israelis want to do is BE LEFT ALONE! But the Arabs will not
do it, have not done it, don't seem to get the idea that it will get
them nowhere. The Palestinian population, as opposed to their
fanatic Hamas masters, as well as the weakened Fatah, would welcome an
end to violence, but they are not in charge; Hamas is.

On the Northern border, Hizbollah by now has enormous quantities of
rocket launchers -- serious Iranian-made stuff -- planted among
civilians not only near the Israeli border, but because of their long
range, even back further. The civilians have no say in this.
Hizbollah is the real government of Lebanon. The "government" forces
are impotent to control Hizbollah's provocations.

HB


If not enough civilians are killed in an air strike, the Islamists will
salt the site with bodies from the morgue. I suppose it could be called
recycling?

TDD

On 12/27/2010 1:52 PM, harry wrote:
On Dec 27, 5:48 pm, wrote:
On Mon, 27 Dec 2010 02:08:49 -0800 (PST),
wrote:

The reason they have prolifierated is that you have shot all the
bears. You need more bears.

Bears? Eating White-Tailed Deer? Harry, you're just too funny!- Hide quoted text -

OK. Wolves then

I think that is a great idea. We should turn a few dozen packs of
wolves loose in the North East cities and let those suburban dwellers
experience the "thrill of the wild" that they are imposing on people
in the west. There are plenty of deer there that need controlling. I
have seen deer in downtown Washington DC. I damn near hit 2 on the
Whitehurst freeway. I dodged one and the other one jumped over the
wall. If I didn't have someplace I had to be I would have driven
around to K street, 30 feet below to see if he was OK.

I don't understand what you mean about people in the NE imposing
"thrill of the wild" on people in the West?
I would love to feed our bankers to wolves. Or any other savage beast.
Maybe tie them to ants nests.

You're a sick man Harry, I like it. :-)

TDD

wrote in message ...

But they *are* standing next to the primary targets. ...and allowing
them
to
be there.

Right, those women and kids should tell the guys with the AK-47s and RPGs
to
get the hell out of town. If you were in their place you'd be more than
happy to go eyeball to eyeball with heavily armed fanatics, sure you
would.

It's happened.

So has the Red Sox winning the World Series, but it isn't something you
should expect very often.

They are part of the problem and are used as pawns. Life is
tough, particularly when you refuse to look out for yourself.

Hamas has ruthlessly killed or maimed anyone who opposes them, and they have
a stranglehold on essential goods and services, asking unarmed civilians to
go up against them is something only a person who doesn't have to do it
would suggest so casually.

Besides, Hamas was elected for reasons someone who has never lived in a
refugee camp their entire life probably can't fully appreciate. Desperate
people choose desperate options, it's not something one can easily judge
from a safe distance.

DGDevin wrote:
wrote in message ...


The big difference being that the women and kids aren't the primary
targets.

But they *are* standing next to the primary targets. ...and
allowing them to
be there.

Right, those women and kids should tell the guys with the AK-47s and
RPGs to get the hell out of town. If you were in their place you'd
be more than happy to go eyeball to eyeball with heavily armed
fanatics, sure you would.

The fanatics armed with AK-47s have to sleep sometime.

On Mon, 27 Dec 2010 15:50:21 -0800, "DGDevin" wrote:



wrote in message ...

But they *are* standing next to the primary targets. ...and allowing
them
to
be there.

Right, those women and kids should tell the guys with the AK-47s and RPGs
to
get the hell out of town. If you were in their place you'd be more than
happy to go eyeball to eyeball with heavily armed fanatics, sure you
would.

It's happened.

So has the Red Sox winning the World Series, but it isn't something you
should expect very often.

Until they refuse to be bait they will keep dying, as bait does.

They are part of the problem and are used as pawns. Life is
tough, particularly when you refuse to look out for yourself.

Hamas has ruthlessly killed or maimed anyone who opposes them, and they have
a stranglehold on essential goods and services, asking unarmed civilians to
go up against them is something only a person who doesn't have to do it
would suggest so casually.

One or the other. At some point they have to take a stand. One way or
another they die.

Besides, Hamas was elected for reasons someone who has never lived in a
refugee camp their entire life probably can't fully appreciate. Desperate
people choose desperate options, it's not something one can easily judge
from a safe distance.

I don't judge. I understand when Israel kills "civilians". They aren't
civilians at all. They're pawns.

"Kurt Ullman" wrote in message
m...

First, getting rid of guys with automatic weapons and a reputation for
killing people who disagree with them isn't so easy.

True. Just that the normal person to fanatic ratio is so high. I guess
a bunch of this is just that the leaders and heavyweights are in with
the bad guys.

If reasonable folks like you and me had instead been raised in a refugee
camp, with no nation to call our own, with violence and poverty all around
us, with a powerful neighbor dropping bombs every time some terrorist group
blew up a bus or whatever--who knows, we might be on the fanatical side too.

Third, if Americans
typically don't back away when someone attacks them, then why expect the
Palestinians to be any different? History teaches us that bombing people
is
just as likely to **** them off and make them pull together rather than
discouraging them. Every time an Israeli airstrike kills women and kids,
Hamas gets another busload of recruits--no wonder the *******s hide their
weapons in schools and mosques.

This is more along of the lines of the stuff I don't understand. I
agree it one thing to rise up, but something entirely different to join
the people bringing down the pain.

What if they're the source of social services for your family? What if they
replaced a corrupt and incompetent administration which primarily took care
of itself? What if they're the only ones fighting back against what you
perceive as your enemy? I'm under no illusions about Hamas, their charter
reads bat**** crazy, they are fanatical thugs. But people as desperate as
the Palestinians will turn to desperate measures. Sooner or later the
Israelis have to climb down a little bit and stop building settlements all
over the place, and the Palestinians have to back away from their total
refusal to admit Israel is there and not going away. They're both going to
have to give up something, or they'll be bleeding forever.

"Higgs Boson" wrote in message
...

The women and kids you refer to are forcibly planted by Hamas in and
around military targets, knowing that, unlike Hamas, Jewswould never
deliberately kill innocent civilians.

So, that right-wing religious nutcase group in Israel that was arrested for
preparing to firebomb an Arab girls school in hopes of igniting a war with
the Arabs they believed Israel would win, do they qualify as Jews intending
to deliberately kill innocent civilians?

As to the "usually" have to be provoked, when else would they attack?
Wouldn't our country or ANY country take out rocket launchers or other
attack installations BEFORE they can kill civilians? Why would Israel
be different?

Are you recommending we bomb North Korea, now, before they can launch any
missiles? BTW, I'm not suggesting Israel doesn't have a right to shoot
back, but let's not kid each other, they've been known to shoot first
because they can't afford to lose many battles. I'm generally well-disposed
to Israel, but that doesn't mean they get a blank check, that they can do no
wrong.

All the Israelis want to do is BE LEFT ALONE!

Well, not exactly, they also want to build settlements on land that kinda
looks like it belongs to other people. Or do you believe than any land
Israel can take in a war is now theirs forever to do with as they please?

But the Arabs will not do it, have not done it, don't seem to get the
idea that it will get
them nowhere.

The Egyptians seemed to figure that out quite some time ago. As you might
recall the leader of Egypt made peace with Israel and paid for it with his
life.

The Palestinian population, as opposed to their
fanatic Hamas masters, as well as the weakened Fatah, would welcome an
end to violence, but they are not in charge; Hamas is.

Aren't you forgetting that the Palestinian people *elected* Hamas?

On the Northern border, Hizbollah by now has enormous quantities of
rocket launchers -- serious Iranian-made stuff -- planted among
civilians not only near the Israeli border, but because of their long
range, even back further. The civilians have no say in this.
Hizbollah is the real government of Lebanon. The "government" forces
are impotent to control Hizbollah's provocations.

Hezbollah is entrenched in part because of their popularity among the
population, you're forgetting (or avoiding) that they provide social
services to endear themselves to the population, as does Hamas. They might
be rat-*******s, but they're not stupid, at least not all the time.

In article ,
wrote:
...snipped...
There is a trend for people in the urbanized east who have never
really seen a wolf in the wild to want to "reintroduce" them out in
the west where they tend to eat the livestock, chase kids and
generally become a nuisance. I don't have a huge problem with that but
I think we should share the joy and turn some loose in Central Park in
NYC, Rock Creek Park in DC and the woods outside of Boston.

They are basically big, mean, omnivorous dogs and they would thrive in
that environment.

Let everyone have the wolf experience. ;-)

I bet that there are plenty of people in NYC who would rather take
their chances with wolves than with the species of predator most
commonly found in Central Park today.




--
Better to be stuck up in a tree than tied to one.

Larry Wasserman - Baltimore Maryland - lwasserm(a)sdf. lonestar.org