Let me explain the situation.

There are 4 floors - base, 1st, 2nd, and 3rd. Each floor has a light
fixture. The previous owners used a timer to control all the lights.
To save energy my friend decided to install two 3-way light switches
at each end (base and 3rd floor) and two 4-way light switches on the
middle floors (1st and 2nd). This is an old building so all wires are
colored black and each floor also has pre-existing wiring for the
light switches but was sealed with a wall plate. We opened the wall
plate and tried to identify the wires on each floor using a non-
contact volt meter and wired the light switches but here's the
problem.

The light switches work on each floor meaning it will either turn some
lights on and some off but when you switch any switch, lights for the
base, 1st and 3rd floors will turn on and the 2nd floor light is off.
When you flip any switch again only 2nd floor light will turn on and
the others lights are off. So the lights keep working in opposite
directions. We shut the circuit breaker off and on and tried to turn
on the lights from 2nd floor and all lights turned on and off fine for
one time. But when tried to turn on the light on another floor, only
the base, 1st, and 3rd floors work and 2nd floor is off. When you
flip the switch again, 2nd floor light is turn on and the others off.

Does anybody know how to fix this wiring issue?
Thanks

"dd" wrote in message
...
Let me explain the situation.

There are 4 floors - base, 1st, 2nd, and 3rd. Each floor has a light
fixture. The previous owners used a timer to control all the lights.
To save energy my friend decided to install two 3-way light switches
at each end (base and 3rd floor) and two 4-way light switches on the
middle floors (1st and 2nd). This is an old building so all wires are
colored black and each floor also has pre-existing wiring for the
light switches but was sealed with a wall plate. We opened the wall
plate and tried to identify the wires on each floor using a non-
contact volt meter and wired the light switches but here's the
problem.

The light switches work on each floor meaning it will either turn some
lights on and some off but when you switch any switch, lights for the
base, 1st and 3rd floors will turn on and the 2nd floor light is off.
When you flip any switch again only 2nd floor light will turn on and
the others lights are off. So the lights keep working in opposite
directions. We shut the circuit breaker off and on and tried to turn
on the lights from 2nd floor and all lights turned on and off fine for
one time. But when tried to turn on the light on another floor, only
the base, 1st, and 3rd floors work and 2nd floor is off. When you
flip the switch again, 2nd floor light is turn on and the others off.

Does anybody know how to fix this wiring issue?
Thanks

Unless the original wiring was set up to turn all lights on and off from
every location, you won't have the necessary wiring to do it now. You really
have to ring out and identify all the wires to each switch and light
location first, and do it using a continuity tester not a proximity voltage
tester, which are very unreliable

There are 4 floors - base, 1st, 2nd, and 3rd. Each floor has a light
fixture. The previous owners used a timer to control all the lights.
To save energy my friend decided to install two 3-way light switches
at each end (base and 3rd floor) and two 4-way light switches on the
middle floors (1st and 2nd). This is an old building so all wires are
colored black and each floor also has pre-existing wiring for the
light switches but was sealed with a wall plate. We opened the wall
plate and tried to identify the wires on each floor using a non-
contact volt meter and wired the light switches but here's the
problem.

The light switches work on each floor meaning it will either turn some
lights on and some off but when you switch any switch, lights for the
base, 1st and 3rd floors will turn on and the 2nd floor light is off.
When you flip any switch again only 2nd floor light will turn on and
the others lights are off. So the lights keep working in opposite
directions. We shut the circuit breaker off and on and tried to turn
on the lights from 2nd floor and all lights turned on and off fine for
one time. But when tried to turn on the light on another floor, only
the base, 1st, and 3rd floors work and 2nd floor is off. When you
flip the switch again, 2nd floor light is turn on and the others off.

Does anybody know how to fix this wiring issue?
Thanks

Unless the original wiring was set up to turn all lights on and off from
every location, you won't have the necessary wiring to do it now. You
really have to ring out and identify all the wires to each switch and
light location first, and do it using a continuity tester not a proximity
voltage tester, which are very unreliable


*I agree with RBM. You need to identify each wire using a meter or a simple
continuity tester. Get yourself some rolls of colored electrical tape such
as white, red, and blue and label everything as you go along.

There was a type of switch set up used many, many, many years ago in
buildings with stairs and multiple floors. It allowed a person to flip a
switch at each floor so that the lower floor light would go off and the next
floor light would go on. I don't know if this set up used the same amount
of wires that is required for the 3-way/4-way switch combination that you
want.

On Nov 10, 7:23*am, "John Grabowski" wrote:
There are 4 floors - base, 1st, 2nd, and 3rd. Each floor has a light
fixture. The previous owners used a timer to control all the lights.
To save energy my friend decided to install two 3-way light switches
at each end (base and 3rd floor) and two 4-way light switches on the
middle floors (1st and 2nd). This is an old building so all wires are
colored black and each floor also has pre-existing wiring for the
light switches but was sealed with a wall plate. We opened the wall
plate and tried to identify the wires on each floor using a non-
contact volt meter and wired the light switches but here's the
problem.

The light switches work on each floor meaning it will either turn some
lights on and some off but when you switch any switch, lights for the
base, 1st and 3rd floors will turn on and the 2nd floor light is off.
When you flip any switch again only 2nd floor light will turn on and
the others lights are off. So the lights keep working in opposite
directions. We shut the circuit breaker off and on and tried to turn
on the lights from 2nd floor and all lights turned on and off fine for
one time. But when tried to turn on the light on another floor, only
the base, 1st, and 3rd floors work and 2nd floor is off. *When you
flip the switch again, 2nd floor light is turn on and the others off.

Does anybody know how to fix this wiring issue?
Thanks

Unless the original wiring was set up to turn all lights on and off from
every location, you won't have the necessary wiring to do it now. You
really have to ring out and identify all the wires to each switch and
light location first, and do it using a continuity tester not a proximity
voltage tester, which are very unreliable

*I agree with RBM. *You need to identify each wire using a meter or a simple
continuity tester. *Get yourself some rolls of colored electrical tape such
as white, red, and blue and label everything as you go along.

There was a type of switch set up used many, many, many years ago in
buildings with stairs and multiple floors. *It allowed a person to flip a
switch at each floor so that the lower floor light would go off and the next
floor light would go on. *I don't know if this set up used the same amount
of wires that is required for the 3-way/4-way switch combination that you
want.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Yes, it's not clear if you have enough wire to do 3/4 way switches.
You need three wires from each switch location to the next. There are
lots of diagrams of 3/4 way switch wiring on the net. The first step
is definately to identify each wire from location to location. Then
you will know if it's even possible to put in 3 way switches.

It might have been a lot less pain to just replacethe bulbs with
compact florescents and leave the wiring alone. A whole bunch of cfl
uses the power of one regular bulb. Probably cost about 10c a night
to run 4 or 5 cfls.

"jamesgangnc" wrote in message
...
On Nov 10, 7:23 am, "John Grabowski" wrote:
There are 4 floors - base, 1st, 2nd, and 3rd. Each floor has a light
fixture. The previous owners used a timer to control all the lights.
To save energy my friend decided to install two 3-way light switches
at each end (base and 3rd floor) and two 4-way light switches on the
middle floors (1st and 2nd). This is an old building so all wires are
colored black and each floor also has pre-existing wiring for the
light switches but was sealed with a wall plate. We opened the wall
plate and tried to identify the wires on each floor using a non-
contact volt meter and wired the light switches but here's the
problem.

The light switches work on each floor meaning it will either turn some
lights on and some off but when you switch any switch, lights for the
base, 1st and 3rd floors will turn on and the 2nd floor light is off.
When you flip any switch again only 2nd floor light will turn on and
the others lights are off. So the lights keep working in opposite
directions. We shut the circuit breaker off and on and tried to turn
on the lights from 2nd floor and all lights turned on and off fine for
one time. But when tried to turn on the light on another floor, only
the base, 1st, and 3rd floors work and 2nd floor is off. When you
flip the switch again, 2nd floor light is turn on and the others off.

Does anybody know how to fix this wiring issue?
Thanks

Unless the original wiring was set up to turn all lights on and off from
every location, you won't have the necessary wiring to do it now. You
really have to ring out and identify all the wires to each switch and
light location first, and do it using a continuity tester not a
proximity
voltage tester, which are very unreliable

*I agree with RBM. You need to identify each wire using a meter or a
simple
continuity tester. Get yourself some rolls of colored electrical tape such
as white, red, and blue and label everything as you go along.

There was a type of switch set up used many, many, many years ago in
buildings with stairs and multiple floors. It allowed a person to flip a
switch at each floor so that the lower floor light would go off and the
next
floor light would go on. I don't know if this set up used the same amount
of wires that is required for the 3-way/4-way switch combination that you
want.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Yes, it's not clear if you have enough wire to do 3/4 way switches.
You need three wires from each switch location to the next. There are
lots of diagrams of 3/4 way switch wiring on the net. The first step
is definately to identify each wire from location to location. Then
you will know if it's even possible to put in 3 way switches.

It might have been a lot less pain to just replacethe bulbs with
compact florescents and leave the wiring alone. A whole bunch of cfl
uses the power of one regular bulb. Probably cost about 10c a night
to run 4 or 5 cfls.

It probably also cuts down on the liability. First time someone falls down
his dark stairway, they'll own the building

On Nov 10, 6:44*am, "RBM" wrote:
"dd" wrote in message

...



Let me explain the situation.

There are 4 floors - base, 1st, 2nd, and 3rd. Each floor has a light
fixture. The previous owners used a timer to control all the lights.
To save energy my friend decided to install two 3-way light switches
at each end (base and 3rd floor) and two 4-way light switches on the
middle floors (1st and 2nd). This is an old building so all wires are
colored black and each floor also has pre-existing wiring for the
light switches but was sealed with a wall plate. We opened the wall
plate and tried to identify the wires on each floor using a non-
contact volt meter and wired the light switches but here's the
problem.

The light switches work on each floor meaning it will either turn some
lights on and some off but when you switch any switch, lights for the
base, 1st and 3rd floors will turn on and the 2nd floor light is off.
When you flip any switch again only 2nd floor light will turn on and
the others lights are off. So the lights keep working in opposite
directions. We shut the circuit breaker off and on and tried to turn
on the lights from 2nd floor and all lights turned on and off fine for
one time. But when tried to turn on the light on another floor, only
the base, 1st, and 3rd floors work and 2nd floor is off. *When you
flip the switch again, 2nd floor light is turn on and the others off.

Does anybody know how to fix this wiring issue?
Thanks

Unless the original wiring was set up to turn all lights on and off from
every location, you won't have the necessary wiring to do it now. You really
have to ring out and identify all the wires to each switch and light
location first, and do it using a continuity tester not a proximity voltage
tester, which are very unreliable


+1...

If the lights in this stairwell were originally wired so that each
switch
controlled only its light and none of the others than you won't have
enough wires to properly control all of the fixtures from each of the
four locations...

Three-way switches require two traveler leads between each side
of the switch loop... When you put four-way switches in between
three-way switches in a switch loop, each four-way switch needs
two sets of travelers, a pair coming from the three-way at the end
of the loop and a pair continuing to the next four-way or the other
end of the loop...

Now adding into the consideration that you have to provide
switched power from one end of the loop to all four locations
and a neutral to complete the power circuit and you now require
those two additional conductors to properly operate your
switch loop and the desired loads...

So unless each switch has four conductors plus a grounding
conductor running between each location, you can not do
what you are attempting... Without knowing more about
how many wires there are in each switch box and how the
lights are being fed, realistic advice on how to fix this issue
once and for all can not be given...

Others have stated that you need to trace and identify each
conductor to determine what it is connected to...

Also, deciding to change from a timer to switches to "save
some money" is a foolhardy endeavor at best and a huge
personal injury liability lawsuit or insurance claim at worst...

Use "cheaper" fixtures with a lower wattage lamp...
Someone will leave the lights on when you have four locations
from which to control them, possibly leaving them on all day if
someone forgets to shut them off in the morning...

What type of occupancy this building is being used for
and the number of units within it should guide your choice
of solution here... What are your requirements for egress
path lighting from your AHJ... Some AHJ's require 24 hour
lighting on egress paths from buildings with a certain
number of units in them...

You just haven't provided enough useful information on
how to correct this problem nor adequately defined the
specific situation of your building which depending on
the number of units it contains additional rules and
considerations might apply...

~~ Evan

Thanks everyone for your responses.

Each floor does have enough wires for the 3-way and 4-way light
switches. I tried to trace the wires again using a multimeter. After
numerous tries, I'm getting a little closer to getting all the light
switches working. Right now all four lights turn on and off on the
base, 1st and 2nd floors. I'm still trying to figure out the last 3-
way switch on the 3rd floor. I did search online for the various 3-
way and 4-way lighting patterns but the wiring gets confusing because
of the 4-ways.

It's difficult to explain the wiring setup I have but basically the
main power is going in on the base floor and flowing to 1st then I
assume it flows to 2nd or through light fixtures then to 3rd and
return back down to the base.

For the 3rd floor light wires, one set of wires were taped already,
I'm guessing this might be the neutral. Then there are three wires
left, I tried to wire them in different combinations to the 3-way
light switch but still can't get the 3rd floor light switch to turn on
or off all the lights. So for now, I'm leaving the 3rd floor light
switch alone since the other three floors are working.

Also the light fixtures have CFL bulbs installed.

Thanks again!