This is the first year I've been able to use my pool heater in the fall
because I got a heater earlier this year (266k BTU Rakpak Nat Gas) capable
of heating the pool in a reasonable amount of time. I plan to use it into
December if the weather holds out.

The pool is an outdoor, in-ground, 10.5k gal pool. I'm in Central Tx.

I've been kicking the heater on about 5pm to go swimming about 8-9pm. I keep
it anywhere between 83 - 87F.

Is it best to leave the heater on all the time or shut it down until I want
to go swimming like I have been?

Jim

In article ,
"JimT" wrote:

This is the first year I've been able to use my pool heater in the fall
because I got a heater earlier this year (266k BTU Rakpak Nat Gas) capable
of heating the pool in a reasonable amount of time. I plan to use it into
December if the weather holds out.

The pool is an outdoor, in-ground, 10.5k gal pool. I'm in Central Tx.

I've been kicking the heater on about 5pm to go swimming about 8-9pm. I keep
it anywhere between 83 - 87F.

Is it best to leave the heater on all the time or shut it down until I want
to go swimming like I have been?

Jim

Do you have either a solar cover or an automatic cover? If you don't
have some way to hold the heat in, you are merely heating the couple
feet above the pool surface for 27 hours a day.

--
"Even I realized that money was to politicians what the ecalyptus tree is to koala bears: food, water, shelter and something to crap on."
---PJ O'Rourke

"JimT" wrote in message
net...
This is the first year I've been able to use my pool heater in the fall
because I got a heater earlier this year (266k BTU Rakpak Nat Gas) capable
of heating the pool in a reasonable amount of time. I plan to use it into
December if the weather holds out.

The pool is an outdoor, in-ground, 10.5k gal pool. I'm in Central Tx.

I've been kicking the heater on about 5pm to go swimming about 8-9pm. I
keep it anywhere between 83 - 87F.

Is it best to leave the heater on all the time or shut it down until I
want to go swimming like I have been?

Jim

heh I'm questioning which way would possibly use less gas?

Jim

"Kurt Ullman" wrote in message
m...
In article ,
"JimT" wrote:

This is the first year I've been able to use my pool heater in the fall
because I got a heater earlier this year (266k BTU Rakpak Nat Gas)
capable
of heating the pool in a reasonable amount of time. I plan to use it into
December if the weather holds out.

The pool is an outdoor, in-ground, 10.5k gal pool. I'm in Central Tx.

I've been kicking the heater on about 5pm to go swimming about 8-9pm. I
keep
it anywhere between 83 - 87F.

Is it best to leave the heater on all the time or shut it down until I
want
to go swimming like I have been?

Jim

Do you have either a solar cover or an automatic cover? If you don't
have some way to hold the heat in, you are merely heating the couple
feet above the pool surface for 27 hours a day.



I have the solar cover on until I have to clean the pool. So it's on about
80 to 90% of the time. It's a higher quality cover with a thermal coating
too. Seems to work pretty well.

Jim

On Nov 1, 2:04*pm, "JimT" wrote:
This is the first year I've been able to use my pool heater in the fall
because I got a heater earlier this year (266k BTU Rakpak Nat Gas) capable
of heating the pool in a reasonable amount of time. I plan to use it into
December if the weather holds out.

The pool is an outdoor, in-ground, 10.5k gal pool. I'm in Central Tx.

I've been kicking the heater on about 5pm to go swimming about 8-9pm. I keep
it anywhere between 83 - 87F.

Is it best to leave the heater on all the time or shut it down until I want
to go swimming like I have been?

Jim

It's always best to turn the heater off...... as long as you turn it
on soon enough to get it up to desired swimming temp.

cheers
Bob

"DD_BobK" wrote in message
...
On Nov 1, 2:04 pm, "JimT" wrote:
This is the first year I've been able to use my pool heater in the fall
because I got a heater earlier this year (266k BTU Rakpak Nat Gas) capable
of heating the pool in a reasonable amount of time. I plan to use it into
December if the weather holds out.

The pool is an outdoor, in-ground, 10.5k gal pool. I'm in Central Tx.

I've been kicking the heater on about 5pm to go swimming about 8-9pm. I
keep
it anywhere between 83 - 87F.

Is it best to leave the heater on all the time or shut it down until I
want
to go swimming like I have been?

Jim

It's always best to turn the heater off...... as long as you turn it
on soon enough to get it up to desired swimming temp.

cheers
Bob

====


Thanks. That does make sense. What would be nice is if the heater had a self
timer to activate the cycle for me.

In the winter months I plan to run the pump at night and keep the heater
about 35 (F) in case of a freeze.

Jim

In article ,
"JimT" wrote:

In the winter months I plan to run the pump at night and keep the heater
about 35 (F) in case of a freeze.

Why? Close it down, put some antifreeze in the pipes and save both
gas and electricity.

--
"Even I realized that money was to politicians what the ecalyptus tree is to koala bears: food, water, shelter and something to crap on."
---PJ O'Rourke

JimT wrote the following:
This is the first year I've been able to use my pool heater in the
fall because I got a heater earlier this year (266k BTU Rakpak Nat
Gas) capable of heating the pool in a reasonable amount of time. I
plan to use it into December if the weather holds out.

The pool is an outdoor, in-ground, 10.5k gal pool. I'm in Central Tx.

I've been kicking the heater on about 5pm to go swimming about 8-9pm.
I keep it anywhere between 83 - 87F.

Is it best to leave the heater on all the time or shut it down until I
want to go swimming like I have been?

Jim

I seem to remember that many years ago, my then FIL had a pool heater
(250,000 BTU) for his above ground oval pool. It took about 1 hour to
raise the water temp 1 degree.
Does that sound right now?

--

Bill
In Hamptonburgh, NY
In the original Orange County. Est. 1683
To email, remove the double zeroes after @

"willshak" wrote in message
m...
JimT wrote the following:
This is the first year I've been able to use my pool heater in the fall
because I got a heater earlier this year (266k BTU Rakpak Nat Gas)
capable of heating the pool in a reasonable amount of time. I plan to use
it into December if the weather holds out.

The pool is an outdoor, in-ground, 10.5k gal pool. I'm in Central Tx.

I've been kicking the heater on about 5pm to go swimming about 8-9pm. I
keep it anywhere between 83 - 87F.

Is it best to leave the heater on all the time or shut it down until I
want to go swimming like I have been?

Jim

I seem to remember that many years ago, my then FIL had a pool heater
(250,000 BTU) for his above ground oval pool. It took about 1 hour to
raise the water temp 1 degree.
Does that sound right now?



That would depend on the weather but yes.

"Kurt Ullman" wrote in message
m...
In article ,
"JimT" wrote:

In the winter months I plan to run the pump at night and keep the heater
about 35 (F) in case of a freeze.

Why? Close it down, put some antifreeze in the pipes and save both
gas and electricity.

snip

It's a pool spa and we use the spa all the time

On Nov 2, 12:29*am, "JimT" wrote:
"DD_BobK" wrote in message

...
On Nov 1, 2:04 pm, "JimT" wrote:



This is the first year I've been able to use my pool heater in the fall
because I got a heater earlier this year (266k BTU Rakpak Nat Gas) capable
of heating the pool in a reasonable amount of time. I plan to use it into
December if the weather holds out.

The pool is an outdoor, in-ground, 10.5k gal pool. I'm in Central Tx.

I've been kicking the heater on about 5pm to go swimming about 8-9pm. I
keep
it anywhere between 83 - 87F.

Is it best to leave the heater on all the time or shut it down until I
want
to go swimming like I have been?

Jim

It's always best to turn the heater off...... as long as you turn it
on soon enough to get it up to desired swimming temp.

cheers
Bob

====

Thanks. That does make sense. What would be nice is if the heater had a self
timer to activate the cycle for me.

In the winter months I plan to run the pump at night and keep the heater
about 35 (F) in case of a freeze.

Jim

There are timers with separately settable switches for the pump and
heater. One is made by a Tork (Torx?) and I'm sure there are others.

On 11/2/2010 8:32 AM, willshak wrote:
JimT wrote the following:
This is the first year I've been able to use my pool heater in the
fall because I got a heater earlier this year (266k BTU Rakpak Nat
Gas) capable of heating the pool in a reasonable amount of time. I
plan to use it into December if the weather holds out.

The pool is an outdoor, in-ground, 10.5k gal pool. I'm in Central Tx.

I've been kicking the heater on about 5pm to go swimming about 8-9pm.
I keep it anywhere between 83 - 87F.

Is it best to leave the heater on all the time or shut it down until I
want to go swimming like I have been?

Jim

I seem to remember that many years ago, my then FIL had a pool heater
(250,000 BTU) for his above ground oval pool. It took about 1 hour to
raise the water temp 1 degree.
Does that sound right now?

It take 1 BTU to raise 1 pound of water 1 degree F. So for a 30K
gallon pool, that would be right. Not counting losses which can be
appreciable.

Jeff

"Ivan" wrote in message
...
On Nov 2, 12:29 am, "JimT" wrote:
"DD_BobK" wrote in message

...
On Nov 1, 2:04 pm, "JimT" wrote:



This is the first year I've been able to use my pool heater in the fall
because I got a heater earlier this year (266k BTU Rakpak Nat Gas)
capable
of heating the pool in a reasonable amount of time. I plan to use it
into
December if the weather holds out.

The pool is an outdoor, in-ground, 10.5k gal pool. I'm in Central Tx.

I've been kicking the heater on about 5pm to go swimming about 8-9pm. I
keep
it anywhere between 83 - 87F.

Is it best to leave the heater on all the time or shut it down until I
want
to go swimming like I have been?

Jim

It's always best to turn the heater off...... as long as you turn it
on soon enough to get it up to desired swimming temp.

cheers
Bob

====

Thanks. That does make sense. What would be nice is if the heater had a
self
timer to activate the cycle for me.

In the winter months I plan to run the pump at night and keep the heater
about 35 (F) in case of a freeze.

Jim

There are timers with separately settable switches for the pump and
heater. One is made by a Tork (Torx?) and I'm sure there are others.

===

I have timers but the heater has a control panel that has to be manually
shut off prior to the pool shut down or it will fry the control panel. It's
a dumb design but I got the heater real cheap.

Anyway, without changing the heater's control panel, it can't be done.

Jim

On Nov 1, 5:04*pm, "JimT" wrote:

Is it best to leave the heater on all the time or shut it down until I want
to go swimming like I have been?

http://www.poolcenter.com/heaters_facts_about4.htm
-----

- gpsman

"gpsman" wrote in message
...
On Nov 1, 5:04 pm, "JimT" wrote:

Is it best to leave the heater on all the time or shut it down until I
want
to go swimming like I have been?

http://www.poolcenter.com/heaters_facts_about4.htm
-----

- gpsman

Thanks. Makes me wonder if my solar blanket is enough.

Jim

On Nov 2, 12:21*pm, "JimT" wrote:
"gpsman" wrote
On Nov 1, 5:04 pm, "JimT" wrote:

Is it best to leave the heater on all the time or shut it down until I
want
to go swimming like I have been?

http://www.poolcenter.com/heaters_facts_about4.htm

Thanks. Makes me wonder if my solar blanket is enough.

Probably.

http://www.energysavers.gov/your_hom.../mytopic=13140
-----

- gpsman

On Nov 2, 5:32*am, willshak wrote:
JimT wrote the following:

This is the first year I've been able to use my pool heater in the
fall because I got a heater earlier this year (266k BTU Rakpak Nat
Gas) capable of heating the pool in a reasonable amount of time. I
plan to use it into December if the weather holds out.

The pool is an outdoor, in-ground, 10.5k gal pool. I'm in Central Tx.

I've been kicking the heater on about 5pm to go swimming about 8-9pm.
I keep it anywhere between 83 - 87F.

Is it best to leave the heater on all the time or shut it down until I
want to go swimming like I have been?

Jim

I seem to remember that many years ago, my then FIL had a pool heater
(250,000 BTU) for his above ground oval pool. It took about 1 hour to
raise the water temp 1 degree.
Does that sound right now?

--

Bill
In Hamptonburgh, NY
In the original Orange County. Est. 1683
To email, remove the double zeroes after @

Yes you are correct....in Jim's case (small pool / big heater) he
might get ~2+ degs per hour.
In ground pool heating is a SLOW, expensive process.


pool capacity (gals) x 8.3 / heater capacity (factored by estimated
efficincy) = ~ water temp degs rise per hour.


Pool users / owners can get an idea of heat losses by meaursing pool
water temp over time in various conditons (cover / no cover, etc)

Where is the pool located? Depending on local environment, a pool
cover might be enough to prevent freezing along with running the pool
a few time per day to bring "warmer" water into the pipes & filter.

But is $250 (someone check my number) for a refill, worth the
potential freeze? How about shutting down for the winter?

cheers
Bob

"DD_BobK" wrote in message
...
On Nov 2, 5:32 am, willshak wrote:
JimT wrote the following:

This is the first year I've been able to use my pool heater in the
fall because I got a heater earlier this year (266k BTU Rakpak Nat
Gas) capable of heating the pool in a reasonable amount of time. I
plan to use it into December if the weather holds out.

The pool is an outdoor, in-ground, 10.5k gal pool. I'm in Central Tx.

I've been kicking the heater on about 5pm to go swimming about 8-9pm.
I keep it anywhere between 83 - 87F.

Is it best to leave the heater on all the time or shut it down until I
want to go swimming like I have been?

Jim

I seem to remember that many years ago, my then FIL had a pool heater
(250,000 BTU) for his above ground oval pool. It took about 1 hour to
raise the water temp 1 degree.
Does that sound right now?

--

Bill
In Hamptonburgh, NY
In the original Orange County. Est. 1683
To email, remove the double zeroes after @

Yes you are correct....in Jim's case (small pool / big heater) he
might get ~2+ degs per hour.
In ground pool heating is a SLOW, expensive process.


pool capacity (gals) x 8.3 / heater capacity (factored by estimated
efficincy) = ~ water temp degs rise per hour.


Pool users / owners can get an idea of heat losses by meaursing pool
water temp over time in various conditons (cover / no cover, etc)

Where is the pool located? Depending on local environment, a pool
cover might be enough to prevent freezing along with running the pool
a few time per day to bring "warmer" water into the pipes & filter.

But is $250 (someone check my number) for a refill, worth the
potential freeze? How about shutting down for the winter?


===

Were in central tx and it's a pool/spa and we use the spa all year. Not sure
what the $250 is. I doubt I'll ever have to run the heater to prevent
freezing. Normally I just turn the pump on to keep the water running. I
throw a blanket over the exposed plumbing too. During the coldest months
we've been averaging a couple of freezes. When the water gets into the '50s
or so I just stop running the pump (unless it freezes). But freezing isn't
much of an issue here and I probably shouldn't have brought it up. g
Thanks.


Jim

"gpsman" wrote in message
...
On Nov 2, 12:21 pm, "JimT" wrote:
"gpsman" wrote
On Nov 1, 5:04 pm, "JimT" wrote:

Is it best to leave the heater on all the time or shut it down until I
want
to go swimming like I have been?

http://www.poolcenter.com/heaters_facts_about4.htm

Thanks. Makes me wonder if my solar blanket is enough.

Probably.

http://www.energysavers.gov/your_hom.../mytopic=13140
-----

- gpsman

==

Probably. As it is, we just had our first really cold front and reality just
hit me. The pool is going into it's normal winter mode. I'm switching to the
stationary bike and weights today but the heater and blanket did get me into
November by one day this year.

Thanks again.

Jim

And, those 27 hour days sure get expensive. My parents used to have a
pool, and a pool heater. The pool got filled in, and the heater was
given away. They found it raised the pool about one degree an hour.
Hardly worth the effort, I think.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"Kurt Ullman" wrote in message
m...


Is it best to leave the heater on all the time or shut it down until
I want
to go swimming like I have been?

Jim

Do you have either a solar cover or an automatic cover? If you
don't
have some way to hold the heat in, you are merely heating the couple
feet above the pool surface for 27 hours a day.

--
"Even I realized that money was to politicians what the ecalyptus tree
is to koala bears: food, water, shelter and something to crap on."
---PJ O'Rourke

Just drain the pool about 1/3, and top it off with non toxic RV
antifreeze.

Or, you could valve off the pool heater, and blow the water out with
compressed air.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"Kurt Ullman" wrote in message
m...
In article ,
"JimT" wrote:

In the winter months I plan to run the pump at night and keep the
heater
about 35 (F) in case of a freeze.

Why? Close it down, put some antifreeze in the pipes and save both
gas and electricity.

--
"Even I realized that money was to politicians what the ecalyptus tree
is to koala bears: food, water, shelter and something to crap on."
---PJ O'Rourke

Sounds right, to me. Almost not worth the bother. And a lot of money
in natural gas, too.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"willshak" wrote in message
m...

I seem to remember that many years ago, my then FIL had a pool heater
(250,000 BTU) for his above ground oval pool. It took about 1 hour to
raise the water temp 1 degree.
Does that sound right now?

--

Bill
In Hamptonburgh, NY
In the original Orange County. Est. 1683
To email, remove the double zeroes after @

On Nov 2, 11:27*am, "JimT" wrote:
"Ivan" wrote in message

...
On Nov 2, 12:29 am, "JimT" wrote:





"DD_BobK" wrote in message

....
On Nov 1, 2:04 pm, "JimT" wrote:

This is the first year I've been able to use my pool heater in the fall
because I got a heater earlier this year (266k BTU Rakpak Nat Gas)
capable
of heating the pool in a reasonable amount of time. I plan to use it
into
December if the weather holds out.

The pool is an outdoor, in-ground, 10.5k gal pool. I'm in Central Tx.

I've been kicking the heater on about 5pm to go swimming about 8-9pm. I
keep
it anywhere between 83 - 87F.

Is it best to leave the heater on all the time or shut it down until I
want
to go swimming like I have been?

Jim

It's always best to turn the heater off...... as long as you turn it
on soon enough to get it up to desired swimming temp.

cheers
Bob

====

Thanks. That does make sense. What would be nice is if the heater had a
self
timer to activate the cycle for me.

In the winter months I plan to run the pump at night and keep the heater
about 35 (F) in case of a freeze.

Jim

There are timers with separately settable switches for the pump and
heater. One is made by a Tork (Torx?) and I'm sure there are others.

===

I have timers but the heater has a control panel that has to be manually
shut off prior to the pool shut down or it will fry the control panel. It's
a dumb design but I got the heater real cheap.

Anyway, without changing the heater's control panel, it can't be done.

Jim- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I don't see how a pool heater with any reasonable and safe design
could have a control panel that gets ruined if the pool heater is not
shut down via its own control panel prior to the pool pump being shut
off. What happens if the breaker trips or power goes out in while the
heater is on? Even if it has that limitation, are you saying you
can't get a seperate timer for the pool heater and have it energized
after the pump timer goes on and before it shuts off?

Definitely best to only fire it up long enough to heat it up before
using it. You have a relatively large heater for a 10,000 galloon
pool. The one here is 400K BTU for 48,000 gallons. The heater may be
cheap, but I'd keep an eye on the gas meter. Even with that size
pool, I think you'll be surprised how much heat in can use. Compare
that 265K BTU to a typical home furnace and it's 3X the capacity.
Using the cover will cut the heat loss substantially.

wrote in message
...
On Nov 2, 11:27 am, "JimT" wrote:
"Ivan" wrote in message

...
On Nov 2, 12:29 am, "JimT" wrote:





"DD_BobK" wrote in message

...
On Nov 1, 2:04 pm, "JimT" wrote:

This is the first year I've been able to use my pool heater in the
fall
because I got a heater earlier this year (266k BTU Rakpak Nat Gas)
capable
of heating the pool in a reasonable amount of time. I plan to use it
into
December if the weather holds out.

The pool is an outdoor, in-ground, 10.5k gal pool. I'm in Central Tx.

I've been kicking the heater on about 5pm to go swimming about 8-9pm.
I
keep
it anywhere between 83 - 87F.

Is it best to leave the heater on all the time or shut it down until I
want
to go swimming like I have been?

Jim

It's always best to turn the heater off...... as long as you turn it
on soon enough to get it up to desired swimming temp.

cheers
Bob

====

Thanks. That does make sense. What would be nice is if the heater had a
self
timer to activate the cycle for me.

In the winter months I plan to run the pump at night and keep the heater
about 35 (F) in case of a freeze.

Jim

There are timers with separately settable switches for the pump and
heater. One is made by a Tork (Torx?) and I'm sure there are others.

===

I have timers but the heater has a control panel that has to be manually
shut off prior to the pool shut down or it will fry the control panel.
It's
a dumb design but I got the heater real cheap.

Anyway, without changing the heater's control panel, it can't be done.

Jim- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I don't see how a pool heater with any reasonable and safe design
could have a control panel that gets ruined if the pool heater is not
shut down via its own control panel prior to the pool pump being shut
off. What happens if the breaker trips or power goes out in while the
heater is on? Even if it has that limitation, are you saying you
can't get a seperate timer for the pool heater and have it energized
after the pump timer goes on and before it shuts off?

Definitely best to only fire it up long enough to heat it up before
using it. You have a relatively large heater for a 10,000 galloon
pool. The one here is 400K BTU for 48,000 gallons. The heater may be
cheap, but I'd keep an eye on the gas meter. Even with that size
pool, I think you'll be surprised how much heat in can use. Compare
that 265K BTU to a typical home furnace and it's 3X the capacity.
Using the cover will cut the heat loss substantially.

===

The heater works pretty effeciently so far. I had a 30k BTU (?) before and
it tooks days to heat the pool but it was really only intented for the spa.

The new heater has a story behind it. Like I said it's a Raypak:
http://tinyurl.com/23jud2x

I got it, installed, like new, for $1000, with a replaced control panel. It
was used, and the previous owner had returned it to the store because she
had it on a timer that would just shut the heater off. The people who sold
it to me said that was why her control panel fried. So I took my timer
"off-switches" off and now I manually turn the pool off and on.

As far as keeping the pool running, we had a cold front move in and I've
decided to stop heating the pool. It looks like November 1 is about the cut
off date. Plans to keep it going to December are dropped but I'll continue
to use the spa.

I think my house furnace BTUs are higher than the pools but I could be
wrong. My gas bill goes up dramatically when the furnace kicks in. That
reminds me I need to get my fireplace up and running.

Jim

On Nov 3, 4:04*am, "JimT" wrote:
wrote in message

...
On Nov 2, 11:27 am, "JimT" wrote:





"Ivan" wrote in message

....
On Nov 2, 12:29 am, "JimT" wrote:

"DD_BobK" wrote in message

....
On Nov 1, 2:04 pm, "JimT" wrote:

This is the first year I've been able to use my pool heater in the
fall
because I got a heater earlier this year (266k BTU Rakpak Nat Gas)
capable
of heating the pool in a reasonable amount of time. I plan to use it
into
December if the weather holds out.

The pool is an outdoor, in-ground, 10.5k gal pool. I'm in Central Tx.

wrote in message
...
On Wed, 3 Nov 2010 13:27:42 -0500, "JimT" wrote:

Oh yeah and no doubt. The fact is, a pool heater that is heating should
not
be just "shut down". Those sensors are for problems like power
interruptions
and pump failures. I don't think the mfg of Raypak want their heaters to
fry
circuit boards on shut down but you should let your pool heater run for
awhile anyway, after it's been heating, to let the pool water cool down
the
heater. I don't have a problem "going manual."

I just officially claimed pool season is over. I can turn the heater off
and
put my pump "off timers" back on. I'm thinking I'll cycle the pool for
about
4 hours a day.

Jim




The instructions for your pool heater will say you should be using a 2
stage timer that lets the pump run a few minutes after the heater goes
off.


Of course you're right but the installer didn't say anything about it. I'll
have to look into getting that done sometime in the future. There is a lot
of new wiring that will need to be done. I think my pool was installed in
1983 and needs some updating as far as wiring goes.

As a side note: I tried to replace the pool light fixture but it was
impossible to pull the light wiring through the conduit. Old pools can be
money holes but I love mine anyway.

Jim

On Nov 3, 5:38*pm, "JimT" wrote:
wrote in message

...





On Wed, 3 Nov 2010 13:27:42 -0500, "JimT" wrote:

Oh yeah and no doubt. The fact is, a pool heater that is heating should
not
be just "shut down". Those sensors are for problems like power
interruptions
and pump failures. I don't think the mfg of Raypak want their heaters to
fry
circuit boards on shut down but you should let your pool heater run for
awhile anyway, after it's been heating, to let the pool water cool down
the
heater. I don't have a problem "going manual."

I just officially claimed pool season is over. I can turn the heater off
and
put my pump "off timers" back on. I'm thinking I'll cycle the pool for
about
4 hours a day.

Jim

The instructions for your pool heater will say you should be using a 2
stage timer that lets the pump run a few minutes after the heater goes
off.


No such instuctions for the Jandy here. As soon as the pump cuts off,
the heater goes off. Nor does it have any capability of doing that
even if I wanted to. The water flowing through it keeps the thing
cool while it's fired up. The water leaving this 400K BTU heater is
only 7 deg F warmer than it comes in. Any residual heat that results
when the pump and heater shut off at the same time may warm the water
a bit, but not anywhere near hot enough to be concerned about.




Of course you're right but the installer didn't say anything about it. I'll
have to look into getting that done sometime in the future. There is a lot
of new wiring that will need to be done. I think my pool was installed in
1983 and needs some updating as far as wiring goes.

As a side note: I tried to replace the pool light fixture but it was
impossible to pull the light wiring through the conduit. Old pools can be
money holes but I love mine anyway.

Jim- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

wrote in message
...
On Wed, 3 Nov 2010 16:13:21 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

On Nov 3, 5:38 pm, "JimT" wrote:
wrote in message

...





On Wed, 3 Nov 2010 13:27:42 -0500, "JimT" wrote:

Oh yeah and no doubt. The fact is, a pool heater that is heating
should
not
be just "shut down". Those sensors are for problems like power
interruptions
and pump failures. I don't think the mfg of Raypak want their heaters
to
fry
circuit boards on shut down but you should let your pool heater run
for
awhile anyway, after it's been heating, to let the pool water cool
down
the
heater. I don't have a problem "going manual."

I just officially claimed pool season is over. I can turn the heater
off
and
put my pump "off timers" back on. I'm thinking I'll cycle the pool for
about
4 hours a day.

Jim

The instructions for your pool heater will say you should be using a 2
stage timer that lets the pump run a few minutes after the heater goes
off.


No such instuctions for the Jandy here. As soon as the pump cuts off,
the heater goes off. Nor does it have any capability of doing that
even if I wanted to. The water flowing through it keeps the thing
cool while it's fired up. The water leaving this 400K BTU heater is
only 7 deg F warmer than it comes in. Any residual heat that results
when the pump and heater shut off at the same time may warm the water
a bit, but not anywhere near hot enough to be concerned about.

This is from page 20 of the Sta-rite gas heater installation book.

"The filter pump should run continuously when the
heater is on, and for at least 15 minutes after the
heater is off."

The instructions on my Raypak talks about the dual timer:

"To operate the heater with a time clock, connect the
timer to the fireman's switch connection in the heater's
wiring. The time clock should be of the dual switch
type and set to shut off the call for heat to the pool
heater 15 to 20 minutes prior to shutting down the pool
pump."

Jim

On Nov 4, 12:29*am, "JimT" wrote:
wrote in message

...





On Wed, 3 Nov 2010 16:13:21 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

On Nov 3, 5:38 pm, "JimT" wrote:
wrote in message

...

On Wed, 3 Nov 2010 13:27:42 -0500, "JimT" wrote:

Oh yeah and no doubt. The fact is, a pool heater that is heating
should
not
be just "shut down". Those sensors are for problems like power
interruptions
and pump failures. I don't think the mfg of Raypak want their heaters
to
fry
circuit boards on shut down but you should let your pool heater run
for
awhile anyway, after it's been heating, to let the pool water cool
down
the
heater. I don't have a problem "going manual."

I just officially claimed pool season is over. I can turn the heater
off
and
put my pump "off timers" back on. I'm thinking I'll cycle the pool for
about
4 hours a day.

Jim

The instructions for your pool heater will say you should be using a 2
stage timer that lets the pump run a few minutes after the heater goes
off.

No such instuctions for the Jandy here. *As soon as the pump cuts off,
the heater goes off. * Nor does it have any capability of doing that
even if I wanted to. *The water flowing through it keeps the thing
cool while it's fired up. *The water leaving this 400K BTU heater is
only 7 deg F warmer than it comes in. * Any residual heat that results
when the pump and heater shut off at the same time may warm the water
a bit, but not anywhere near hot enough to be concerned about.

This is from page 20 of the Sta-rite gas heater installation book.

"The filter pump should run continuously when the
heater is on, and for at least 15 minutes after the
heater is off."

The instructions on my Raypak talks about the dual timer:

"To operate the heater with a time clock, connect the
timer to the fireman's switch connection in the heater's
wiring. The time clock should be of the dual switch
type and set to shut off the call for heat to the pool
heater 15 to 20 minutes prior to shutting down the pool
pump."

Jim- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

OK, I stand corrected on what Jandy has to say.

Here's what Jandy has to say on the subject from the installation
manual for one of their similar heaters:

"If you install a time clock to control the filter pump operation,
it's recommended that the time clock have it's own low voltage
(fireman's) switch to turn off the heater before turning off the
pump. The switch should shut off the heater about 15 minutes before
the filter pump shuts off. This will allow for a more efficient
operation by removing any residual heat contained in the heat
exchanger back to the pool."


I think the important thing here is the REASON for the
recommendation. Jandy is not saying shutting off the pump and heater
at the same time is going to destroy the control panel or destroy the
heater. Only that it allows for more efficient operation by allowing
the remaining heat from the heater to make it to the pool instead of
being wasted. Similar to a forced air heating system where the
blower continues to run after the burner shuts off so as to not waste
the remaining heat. In the grand scheme of pool heating, I'd say
this little bit of heat is insignificant.

The pool here with a Jandy was installed by one of the largest
installers in the area and it has a single switch timer. The pump and
heater turn off at the same time. It's been running for 5 years with
no problems. When it shuts off, there is no evidence of the heater,
pipes, etc getting hotter than they do during normal operation. If
that's all it took to ruin the heater, what would happen when a
breaker tripped or you had a power outage? When it shuts off, the
heater is full of water at 85 deg. IMO, and apparently Jandy's too,
there isn't enough heat left in the heat exchanger metal to raise that
water temp high enough to cause any problems.

If I was doing a new install though, I would agree that I'd use a two
switch timer, as all it requires is a timer with that capability and
it does capture a tiny bit of extra heat.

wrote in message
...
On Nov 4, 1:58 pm, wrote:
On Thu, 4 Nov 2010 05:44:43 -0700 (PDT), wrote:
This is from page 20 of the Sta-rite gas heater installation book.

"The filter pump should run continuously when the
heater is on, and for at least 15 minutes after the
heater is off."

The instructions on my Raypak talks about the dual timer:

"To operate the heater with a time clock, connect the
timer to the fireman's switch connection in the heater's
wiring. The time clock should be of the dual switch
type and set to shut off the call for heat to the pool
heater 15 to 20 minutes prior to shutting down the pool
pump."

Jim- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

OK, I stand corrected on what Jandy has to say.

Here's what Jandy has to say on the subject from the installation
manual for one of their similar heaters:

"If you install a time clock to control the filter pump operation,
it's recommended that the time clock have it's own low voltage
(fireman's) switch to turn off the heater before turning off the
pump. The switch should shut off the heater about 15 minutes before
the filter pump shuts off. This will allow for a more efficient
operation by removing any residual heat contained in the heat
exchanger back to the pool."

I think the important thing here is the REASON for the
recommendation. Jandy is not saying shutting off the pump and heater
at the same time is going to destroy the control panel or destroy the
heater. Only that it allows for more efficient operation by allowing
the remaining heat from the heater to make it to the pool instead of
being wasted. Similar to a forced air heating system where the
blower continues to run after the burner shuts off so as to not waste
the remaining heat. In the grand scheme of pool heating, I'd say
this little bit of heat is insignificant.

The pool here with a Jandy was installed by one of the largest
installers in the area and it has a single switch timer. The pump and
heater turn off at the same time. It's been running for 5 years with
no problems. When it shuts off, there is no evidence of the heater,
pipes, etc getting hotter than they do during normal operation. If
that's all it took to ruin the heater, what would happen when a
breaker tripped or you had a power outage? When it shuts off, the
heater is full of water at 85 deg. IMO, and apparently Jandy's too,
there isn't enough heat left in the heat exchanger metal to raise that
water temp high enough to cause any problems.

If I was doing a new install though, I would agree that I'd use a two
switch timer, as all it requires is a timer with that capability and
it does capture a tiny bit of extra heat.

You can still feel heat coming out of the pipe for about a minute
after the heater shuts off with my Sta-rite. I agree 15 minutes is
overkill. I do bet you will boil the water in the pipe if you shut
them both off at the same time.

If that happens, don;t you think I'd be hearing gurgling, ie sounds of
boiling? snip

===

I have. You might call or e-mail them.

Jim