The kitchen is moving along and it is time to look at lighting. I'm
looking for ideas. The house is plaster lath so recessed lighting is out.

I see this as being divided into general lighting, ceiling mounted,
and workspace lighting.

For general I had thought of some kind of small track lighting like this:

http://www.ikea.com/us/en/catalog/products/50112415

But all the small track lights are halogens, anyone seen any with
something more efficient that is affordable? The LEDS I saw are still
too pricey. Perhaps I'm stuck with a flush mount.

It looks to me that workspace lighting should be directly over the
space. I have no cabinets over the workspaces so I think this leads to
some kind of pendant hanging light. They seem to be halogen also.

I'll be looking at Lowes, IKEA and the Borg. Maybe I'm missing
somewhere... Should I suck it up and do the halogens, are affordable
drop in LEDS on the way?

Jeff

On 10/10/2010 9:49 AM, Jeff Thies wrote:
The kitchen is moving along and it is time to look at lighting. I'm
looking for ideas. The house is plaster lath so recessed lighting is out.

I see this as being divided into general lighting, ceiling mounted, and
workspace lighting.

For general I had thought of some kind of small track lighting like this:

http://www.ikea.com/us/en/catalog/products/50112415

But all the small track lights are halogens, anyone seen any with
something more efficient that is affordable? The LEDS I saw are still
too pricey. Perhaps I'm stuck with a flush mount.

It looks to me that workspace lighting should be directly over the
space. I have no cabinets over the workspaces so I think this leads to
some kind of pendant hanging light. They seem to be halogen also.

I'll be looking at Lowes, IKEA and the Borg. Maybe I'm missing
somewhere... Should I suck it up and do the halogens, are affordable
drop in LEDS on the way?

Ah, Found this GU10 replacement in a mini CFL

http://www.amazon.com/SUPRA-COMPACT-.../dp/B001RAQMQI

That should open up the options!

Jeff

Jeff

On 10/10/2010 9:57 AM, Jeff Thies wrote:
On 10/10/2010 9:49 AM, Jeff Thies wrote:
The kitchen is moving along and it is time to look at lighting. I'm
looking for ideas. The house is plaster lath so recessed lighting is out.

I see this as being divided into general lighting, ceiling mounted, and
workspace lighting.

For general I had thought of some kind of small track lighting like this:

http://www.ikea.com/us/en/catalog/products/50112415

But all the small track lights are halogens, anyone seen any with
something more efficient that is affordable? The LEDS I saw are still
too pricey. Perhaps I'm stuck with a flush mount.

It looks to me that workspace lighting should be directly over the
space. I have no cabinets over the workspaces so I think this leads to
some kind of pendant hanging light. They seem to be halogen also.

I'll be looking at Lowes, IKEA and the Borg. Maybe I'm missing
somewhere... Should I suck it up and do the halogens, are affordable
drop in LEDS on the way?

Ah, Found this GU10 replacement in a mini CFL

http://www.amazon.com/SUPRA-COMPACT-.../dp/B001RAQMQI

Cheaper:

http://www.conservationmart.com/p-54...bulb.aspx#tabs


That should open up the options!

Jeff

Jeff

"Jeff Thies" wrote in message
...
The kitchen is moving along and it is time to look at lighting. I'm
looking for ideas. The house is plaster lath so recessed lighting is out.

I see this as being divided into general lighting, ceiling mounted, and
workspace lighting.

For general I had thought of some kind of small track lighting like
this:

http://www.ikea.com/us/en/catalog/products/50112415

But all the small track lights are halogens, anyone seen any with
something more efficient that is affordable? The LEDS I saw are still too
pricey. Perhaps I'm stuck with a flush mount.

It looks to me that workspace lighting should be directly over the
space. I have no cabinets over the workspaces so I think this leads to
some kind of pendant hanging light. They seem to be halogen also.

I'll be looking at Lowes, IKEA and the Borg. Maybe I'm missing
somewhere... Should I suck it up and do the halogens, are affordable drop
in LEDS on the way?

Jeff

Personally, I'd bite the bullet and do it right. Track lighting is lousy
unless you have a high ceiling. Those small track light CF things you link
to put out 250 lumens, which is worthless, considering that a standard 60
watt light bulb puts out around 800. Cut the ceiling and install recessed
lights. You'll be happy with the results. Also, there is a new lamp on the
market, Satco makes them, and they are made in standard reflector flood
sizes, but they're halogen, and very bright.

On Oct 10, 7:21*am, "RBM" wrote:
"Jeff Thies" wrote in message

...



* The kitchen is moving along and it is time to look at lighting. I'm
looking for ideas. The house is plaster lath so recessed lighting is out.

If you use spot lights and recessed lights, your wife will be working in a
dark cave. If you want light in your kitchen at reasonable efficiency, use
decorative 4' fluorescent lights.

http://www.fluorescentgallery.com/ There are many cheaper versions.




"Jeff Thies" wrote in message
...
The kitchen is moving along and it is time to look at lighting. I'm
looking for ideas. The house is plaster lath so recessed lighting is out.

I see this as being divided into general lighting, ceiling mounted, and
workspace lighting.

For general I had thought of some kind of small track lighting like
this:

http://www.ikea.com/us/en/catalog/products/50112415

But all the small track lights are halogens, anyone seen any with
something more efficient that is affordable? The LEDS I saw are still too
pricey. Perhaps I'm stuck with a flush mount.

It looks to me that workspace lighting should be directly over the
space. I have no cabinets over the workspaces so I think this leads to
some kind of pendant hanging light. They seem to be halogen also.

I'll be looking at Lowes, IKEA and the Borg. Maybe I'm missing
somewhere... Should I suck it up and do the halogens, are affordable drop
in LEDS on the way?

Jeff

On 10/10/2010 10:21 AM, RBM wrote:
"Jeff wrote in message
...
The kitchen is moving along and it is time to look at lighting. I'm
looking for ideas. The house is plaster lath so recessed lighting is out.

I see this as being divided into general lighting, ceiling mounted, and
workspace lighting.

For general I had thought of some kind of small track lighting like
this:

http://www.ikea.com/us/en/catalog/products/50112415

But all the small track lights are halogens, anyone seen any with
something more efficient that is affordable? The LEDS I saw are still too
pricey. Perhaps I'm stuck with a flush mount.

It looks to me that workspace lighting should be directly over the
space. I have no cabinets over the workspaces so I think this leads to
some kind of pendant hanging light. They seem to be halogen also.

I'll be looking at Lowes, IKEA and the Borg. Maybe I'm missing
somewhere... Should I suck it up and do the halogens, are affordable drop
in LEDS on the way?

Jeff

Personally, I'd bite the bullet and do it right. Track lighting is lousy
unless you have a high ceiling. Those small track light CF things you link
to put out 250 lumens, which is worthless, considering that a standard 60
watt light bulb puts out around 800. Cut the ceiling and install recessed
lights. You'll be happy with the results. Also, there is a new lamp on the
market, Satco makes them, and they are made in standard reflector flood
sizes, but they're halogen, and very bright.

Agree with this. When I remodeled the previous kitchen, we put in small
can lights with 50 watt halogen capsule lights. This was very nice,
however, not the most efficient and the bulbs were not cheap. Here in
the new house we had small can lights put in. The electrician put in
the cheapest small flood bulbs. I 1st replace them with small CFL
floods. The coverage was terrible and these particular lamps started
very dim. I then replaced them with regular twist shaped CFLs. I
didn't think they would work, but I was wrong. They are very bright.
They actually stick down below the trim ring by about 1/2". BTW, be
careful on can light placement. Along the cabinets is good, however,
too close to the cabinet shows every speck of dust. In this house they
are actually 2' from the cabinet line ... maybe just a bit too much. A
good guess would be about 16". BTW, this is a 9' ceiling.

On Oct 10, 8:49*am, Jeff Thies wrote:
* *The kitchen is moving along and it is time to look at lighting. I'm
looking for ideas. The house is plaster lath so recessed lighting is out.

* *I see this as being divided into general lighting, ceiling mounted,
and workspace lighting.

* *For general I had thought of some kind of small track lighting like this:

http://www.ikea.com/us/en/catalog/products/50112415

* *But all the small track lights are halogens, anyone seen any with
something more efficient that is affordable? The LEDS I saw are still
too pricey. Perhaps I'm stuck with a flush mount.

* *It looks to me that workspace lighting should be directly over the
space. I have no cabinets over the workspaces so I think this leads to
some kind of pendant hanging light. They seem to be halogen also.

* I'll be looking at Lowes, IKEA and the Borg. Maybe I'm missing
somewhere... Should I suck it up and do the halogens, are affordable
drop in LEDS on the way?

* *Jeff

I HATE recessed lights, they tend to cast shadows and in a kitchen you
definitely want diffused lighting. I would try to find a showcase
place for kitchen cabinets and see what kind of lighting they use, and
if you like that kind of lighting, fine

When we remodeled our kitchen a few years ago, we ended up using a
very low profile fluorescent 4' dual bulb fixture in the center of the
ceiling, and a number of fluorescent fixtures under the cabinets.
The cabinet fixtures were mounted up against the bottom of the
cabinets, and then I made panels that fit up under the skirts of the
cabinets that match the finish of the cabinets, and cut openings in
the panels and finished the openings off with standard plexiglass
diffusers cut to the size opening needed. Held the plexiglass in
place with a dab of hot glue in each corner so that the plexiglas can
be easily removed to replace the bulbs without having to remove the
panels. Shadowless light on all the countertops, negligible heating
from the bulbs into the cabinets over the bulbs, what more could you
want.

"hr(bob) " wrote in message
...
On Oct 10, 8:49 am, Jeff Thies wrote:
The kitchen is moving along and it is time to look at lighting. I'm
looking for ideas. The house is plaster lath so recessed lighting is out.

I see this as being divided into general lighting, ceiling mounted,
and workspace lighting.

For general I had thought of some kind of small track lighting like this:

http://www.ikea.com/us/en/catalog/products/50112415

But all the small track lights are halogens, anyone seen any with
something more efficient that is affordable? The LEDS I saw are still
too pricey. Perhaps I'm stuck with a flush mount.

It looks to me that workspace lighting should be directly over the
space. I have no cabinets over the workspaces so I think this leads to
some kind of pendant hanging light. They seem to be halogen also.

I'll be looking at Lowes, IKEA and the Borg. Maybe I'm missing
somewhere... Should I suck it up and do the halogens, are affordable
drop in LEDS on the way?

Jeff

I HATE recessed lights, they tend to cast shadows and in a kitchen you
definitely want diffused lighting. I would try to find a showcase
place for kitchen cabinets and see what kind of lighting they use, and
if you like that kind of lighting, fine

When we remodeled our kitchen a few years ago, we ended up using a
very low profile fluorescent 4' dual bulb fixture in the center of the
ceiling, and a number of fluorescent fixtures under the cabinets.
The cabinet fixtures were mounted up against the bottom of the
cabinets, and then I made panels that fit up under the skirts of the
cabinets that match the finish of the cabinets, and cut openings in
the panels and finished the openings off with standard plexiglass
diffusers cut to the size opening needed. Held the plexiglass in
place with a dab of hot glue in each corner so that the plexiglas can
be easily removed to replace the bulbs without having to remove the
panels. Shadowless light on all the countertops, negligible heating
from the bulbs into the cabinets over the bulbs, what more could you
want.


Typically a row of recessed lights centered on the edge of the counter tops
will give excellent light without shadows. Conversely any light in the
center of the room will assure a shadow on the counter where you're trying
to work, as the light is coming from behind you. Under cabinet lights set
back against the wall don't generally light the front portion of the counter
space well.

"hr(bob) " wrote in message
...
On Oct 10, 8:49 am, Jeff Thies wrote:


I HATE recessed lights, they tend to cast shadows and in a kitchen you
definitely want diffused lighting. I would try to find a showcase
place for kitchen cabinets and see what kind of lighting they use, and
if you like that kind of lighting, fine

Agreed. When I bought the house 25 years ago, the entire kitchen was lit
with recessed can lights. When I re-did the room, I ripped out all that crap
and installed track floods. They all have CFLs, so now are now even brighter
than when there were only incandescents. You can actually re-aim them on the
fly, something impossible with those horrid recessed things. That said, I
have no upper cabinets to get in the way of the lights. I have an 8'x5'
peninsula with the stove/oven and 4 base cabinets on two sides with an open
space for barstools, and a 12'x3' starting next to the fridge containing the
sink, dishwasher, and 3 base cabinets. Opposite the end of the peninsula is
a 5'x3' counter over 1 base cabinet. I've got tracks over the center of
each, with varying numbers of floodlights, and each track is on a different
switch. Maybe this wouldn't work everywhere, but it's the only solution for
this room. Plus, since there are 6 windows and 4 doors (2 exterior with
glass) in the room, we only need the lights at night.

On Oct 10, 11:13*am, "RBM" wrote:
"hr(bob) " wrote in message

...
On Oct 10, 8:49 am, Jeff Thies wrote:





The kitchen is moving along and it is time to look at lighting. I'm
looking for ideas. The house is plaster lath so recessed lighting is out.

"hr(bob) " wrote in message
...
On Oct 10, 11:13 am, "RBM" wrote:
"hr(bob) " wrote in message

...
On Oct 10, 8:49 am, Jeff Thies wrote:





The kitchen is moving along and it is time to look at lighting. I'm
looking for ideas. The house is plaster lath so recessed lighting is
out.

I see this as being divided into general lighting, ceiling mounted,
and workspace lighting.

For general I had thought of some kind of small track lighting like
this:

http://www.ikea.com/us/en/catalog/products/50112415

But all the small track lights are halogens, anyone seen any with
something more efficient that is affordable? The LEDS I saw are still
too pricey. Perhaps I'm stuck with a flush mount.

It looks to me that workspace lighting should be directly over the
space. I have no cabinets over the workspaces so I think this leads to
some kind of pendant hanging light. They seem to be halogen also.

I'll be looking at Lowes, IKEA and the Borg. Maybe I'm missing
somewhere... Should I suck it up and do the halogens, are affordable
drop in LEDS on the way?

Jeff

I HATE recessed lights, they tend to cast shadows and in a kitchen you
definitely want diffused lighting. I would try to find a showcase
place for kitchen cabinets and see what kind of lighting they use, and
if you like that kind of lighting, fine

When we remodeled our kitchen a few years ago, we ended up using a
very low profile fluorescent 4' dual bulb fixture in the center of the
ceiling, and a number of fluorescent fixtures under the cabinets.
The cabinet fixtures were mounted up against the bottom of the
cabinets, and then I made panels that fit up under the skirts of the
cabinets that match the finish of the cabinets, and cut openings in
the panels and finished the openings off with standard plexiglass
diffusers cut to the size opening needed. Held the plexiglass in
place with a dab of hot glue in each corner so that the plexiglas can
be easily removed to replace the bulbs without having to remove the
panels. Shadowless light on all the countertops, negligible heating
from the bulbs into the cabinets over the bulbs, what more could you
want.

Typically a row of recessed lights centered on the edge of the counter
tops
will give excellent light without shadows. Conversely any light in the
center of the room will assure a shadow on the counter where you're trying
to work, as the light is coming from behind you. Under cabinet lights set
back against the wall don't generally light the front portion of the
counter
space well.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

But I put the undercabinet lights at the front edge/skirt of the
overhead cabinets so the light is virtually directly above the counter
top that you would normally be using. It is forward of the
cannisters, coffee maker, toaster, etc that are normally along the
back wall side of the countertops.

That certainly will work if you want to use under cabinet lights as the
primary counter lighting source. The drawback to that is the exposed wiring
from the fixtures back to the wall. Not everyone likes recessed lighting for
a variety of reasons, but in a kitchen, when properly placed they do an
excellent job lighting the counters

On Oct 10, 9:45*pm, "RBM" wrote:
"hr(bob) " wrote in message

...
On Oct 10, 11:13 am, "RBM" wrote:





"hr(bob) " wrote in message

....
On Oct 10, 8:49 am, Jeff Thies wrote:

The kitchen is moving along and it is time to look at lighting. I'm
looking for ideas. The house is plaster lath so recessed lighting is
out.

I see this as being divided into general lighting, ceiling mounted,
and workspace lighting.

For general I had thought of some kind of small track lighting like
this:

http://www.ikea.com/us/en/catalog/products/50112415

But all the small track lights are halogens, anyone seen any with
something more efficient that is affordable? The LEDS I saw are still
too pricey. Perhaps I'm stuck with a flush mount.

It looks to me that workspace lighting should be directly over the
space. I have no cabinets over the workspaces so I think this leads to
some kind of pendant hanging light. They seem to be halogen also.

I'll be looking at Lowes, IKEA and the Borg. Maybe I'm missing
somewhere... Should I suck it up and do the halogens, are affordable
drop in LEDS on the way?

Jeff

I HATE recessed lights, they tend to cast shadows and in a kitchen you
definitely want diffused lighting. I would try to find a showcase
place for kitchen cabinets and see what kind of lighting they use, and
if you like that kind of lighting, fine

When we remodeled our kitchen a few years ago, we ended up using a
very low profile fluorescent 4' dual bulb fixture in the center of the
ceiling, and a number of fluorescent fixtures under the cabinets.
The cabinet fixtures were mounted up against the bottom of the
cabinets, and then I made panels that fit up under the skirts of the
cabinets that match the finish of the cabinets, and cut openings in
the panels and finished the openings off with standard plexiglass
diffusers cut to the size opening needed. Held the plexiglass in
place with a dab of hot glue in each corner so that the plexiglas can
be easily removed to replace the bulbs without having to remove the
panels. Shadowless light on all the countertops, negligible heating
from the bulbs into the cabinets over the bulbs, what more could you
want.

Typically a row of recessed lights centered on the edge of the counter
tops
will give excellent light without shadows. Conversely any light in the
center of the room will assure a shadow on the counter where you're trying
to work, as the light is coming from behind you. Under cabinet lights set
back against the wall don't generally light the front portion of the
counter
space well.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

But I put the undercabinet lights at the front edge/skirt of the
overhead cabinets so the light is virtually directly above the counter
top that you would normally be using. *It is forward of the
cannisters, coffee maker, toaster, etc that are normally along the
back wall side of the countertops.

That certainly will work if you want to use under cabinet lights as the
primary counter lighting source. The drawback to that is the exposed wiring
from the fixtures back to the wall. Not everyone likes recessed lighting for
a variety of reasons, but in a kitchen, when properly placed they do an
excellent job lighting the counters- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

But you don't see the wiring or the fixtures, that stuff is above the
panels that I made to go under the cabinets, flush with the skirts on
the cabiinets. I use frosted /textured plexiglass to cover the
openings in the panels where the lights are located. It basiclly
finishes the undersides of the cabinets, at least the ones I have have
slirts about 1.5 inches deep and that is more than the depth of the
fixtures I mounted on the bottoms of the cabinets. SO you just see a
panel of wood with rectangular inserts of Plexigas where the light
from the hidden fixtures shines thru. IT really is very classy
looking.

On 2010-10-10, Jeff Thies wrote:

The kitchen is moving along and it is time to look at lighting. I'm
looking for ideas. The house is plaster lath so recessed lighting is
out.

I'm in a similar situation, I hate the look of recessed lighting.
Here is what I came up with:

General lighting is from a Litepuff 2' 4 tube fluorescent fixture,
Lithonia 10641RE, over the center island . The diffuser hides the
entire fixture, so it fades into the background.

Decorative pendants taking GU24 fluorescent bulbs over the peninsula.

Decorative semi-flush fixtures (actually very short pendants) taking
GU24 fluorescent bulbs over the kitchen sink and the breakfast nook.

Undercabinet T2 fluorescent fixtures to light the countertop, mounted
at the front of the upper cabinets, so they are centered over the
counter.

I got my decorative GU24 fixtures from www.rejuvenation.com, but there
must be other options.

Cheers, Wayne